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Por Bill Figueroa |

Daniel,

I am answering your question in this forum so that other members can participate and benefit with the information provided. I have done extensive research on this family, so here it is the basic info. in a nutshell:

Luis de los Reyes and Juana de Vargas were married 27 Dec 1636 in Aguascalientes. Juana used the surname Vargas for about 16 years, then all of a sudden she began using the surname Tiscareño. Apparently, she was child of Luis Tiscareño de Molina, born shortly before he married Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza in 1623. Luis Tiscareño appears as "soltero" shortly before he married Lorenza, not "viudo".

Luis de los Reyes and Juana de Vargas (aka Juana de Tiscareño) had at least 10 children born between 1638-1665, i.e. Juan, María, Luisa, Luis, Isabel, Josepha, Inés, Juana, Theresa and Antonio.

Luisa, born in 1643, married Antonio Dias de Lomas 9 Jul 1670 in Aguascalientes.

Bill Figueroa

--------------------------------------------

Hi Bill I found this while going through the baptisms for Aguas

En la Villa de Aguas. en 27 de septiembre de 1643....bauticé una niña...Luisa, española hija de Luís de los Reyes y Juana de Vargas, españoles......

Do you think these are the same Luis Reyes and Juana Tiscareño? Same time frame and place have you worked on this couple? Is Juana Tiscareño de molina the same as Juana de Vargas? Could ????? de Vargas be the possible first wife of Luis Tiscareño before marrying Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza? Then Juana could have used the mother's name? I was fixing the tree, did this couple had a Luisa Reyes ? I had Antonio Dias de Lomas as husband to both Luisa Reyes and Luisa Tiscareno? Am i correct? Who was Antonio Dias de Lomas' wife? Im confused, thanks in advance! -Daniel

Bill,
What is the evidence to support Juana Vargas (Tiscareño) as natural child of Luis Tiscareño de Molina? Is Luis listed in the marriage record of Luis de los Reyes and Juana de Vargas? I would be very interested in this information. Regarding this family, I have also done a fair bit of research, and I know that some members like George and Mickey will be interested in the following information, in particular as it relates to the relationship to the Medina family. Daniel may be intersted in some of the Tiscarenos. Regarding the children of Luis and Juana, I only had 9, I was missing Luis. In here I am including 5 generations.

Jaime

1st Generation

1. Luis de Los Reyes (Luis1) was born About 1635 and died on Jan. 24, 1675 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México. He married Juana Tiscareño de Molina About 1654. Juana was born About 1638 and died on an unknown date.

Children of Luis de Los Reyes and Juana Tiscareño de Molina
1.1.i.Antonio de Los Reyes was born About 1665 and died on an unknown date.
1.2.ii.Juana de Los Reyes was born on Feb. 4, 1658 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México1 and died on an unknown date.
1.3.iii.Theresa de Los Reyes was born on Jun. 13, 1660 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México2 and died on an unknown date.
1.4.iv.Ines Reyes Tiscareño was born on Mar. 8, 1656 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México3 and died on an unknown date.
1.5.v.Josepha de Los Reyes died on an unknown date.
1.6.vi.Luisa de Los Reyes died on an unknown date.
1.7.vii.Maria de Los Reyes died on an unknown date.
1.8.viii.Juan de Los Reyes died on an unknown date.
1.9.ix.Maria Tiscareño died on an unknown date.
1.10.x. Luis

2nd Generation (Children)

1.1. Antonio de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) was born About 1665 and died on an unknown date. He married Isavel de Esparza on Nov. 11, 1681 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México. Isavel, daughter of Juan de Ortiz and Luisa de Esparza (Pedro3, Lope2, Lope1), was born About 1662 and died Before 1709.

Children of Antonio de Los Reyes and Isavel de Esparza
1.1.1.i.Joseph de Reyes was born About 1685 and died on an unknown date.
1.1.2.ii.Luis de Reyes was born on Apr. 27, 1693 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on Apr. 14, 1742 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.

1.2. Juana de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) was born on Feb. 4, 1658 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México4 and died on an unknown date.
1.3. Theresa de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) was born on Jun. 13, 1660 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México5 and died on an unknown date.
1.4. Ines Reyes Tiscareño (Luis2, Luis1) was born on Mar. 8, 1656 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México6 and died on an unknown date.
1.5. Josepha de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) died on an unknown date. She married Mateo de Espinosa on Jul. 17, 1676 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
1.6. Luisa de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) died on an unknown date. She married Antonio Diaz de las Lomas on Jul. 9, 1670 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
1.7. Maria de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) died on an unknown date. She married Juan de Santoyo Gomez in 1666 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
1.8. Juan de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) died on an unknown date.
1.9. Maria Tiscareño (Luis2, Luis1) died on an unknown date. She married Joseph Santoyo in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.

Children of Maria Tiscareño and Joseph Santoyo
1.9.1.i.Joseph Santoyo Tiscareño was born on Aug. 10, 1669 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México7 and died on an unknown date.
1.9.2.ii.Antonio Santoyo Reyes was born on Sep. 26, 1671 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México8 and died on an unknown date.
1.9.3.iii.Diego Santoyo Reyes was born on Jan. 20, 1665 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México9 and died on an unknown date.

3rd Generation (Grandchildren)

1.1.1. Joseph de Reyes (Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born About 1685 and died on an unknown date. He married Beatris de Medina on Mar. 11, 1709 in El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México. Beatris, daughter of Christobal de Medina and Maria de Avila, was born on Apr. 16, 1687 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México10 and died on an unknown date.

Children of Joseph de Reyes and Beatris de Medina
1.1.1.1.i.Josefa Medina was born About 1720 and died on Jun. 10, 1742 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
1.1.1.2.ii.Rita Reyes was born on Sep. 18, 1726 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México11 and died on an unknown date.
1.1.1.3.iii.Lorenzo de Reyes was born About 1720 and died on Nov. 3, 1777 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
1.1.1.4.iv.Juana Maria de Los Reyes was born About 1720 and died on Feb. 18, 1776 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
1.1.1.5.v.Francisco Xavier Reyes Medina was born on Apr. 4, 1717 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on an unknown date.
1.1.1.6.vi.Gertrudis Reyes was born on May 3, 1719 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on an unknown date.
1.1.1.7.vii.Antonia Cipriana de Reyes was born on Oct. 16, 1724 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on an unknown date.

1.1.2. Luis de Reyes (Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born on Apr. 27, 1693 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on Apr. 14, 1742 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México. He married Gabriela de Medina, daughter of Christobal de Medina and Maria de Avila, on Nov. 14, 1714 in El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México12.

1.9.1. Joseph Santoyo Tiscareño (Joseph1) was born on Aug. 10, 1669 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México13 and died on an unknown date.
1.9.2. Antonio Santoyo Reyes (Joseph1) was born on Sep. 26, 1671 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México14 and died on an unknown date.
1.9.3. Diego Santoyo Reyes (Joseph1) was born on Jan. 20, 1665 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México15 and died on an unknown date.

4th Generation (Great-grandchildren)

1.1.1.1. Josefa Medina (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born About 1720 and died on Jun. 10, 1742 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México. She married Albaro Valades. Albaro was born About 1718 and died on an unknown date.

Children of Josefa Medina and Albaro Valades
1.1.1.1.1.i.Francisco Xavier Valades was born About 1738 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died Before 1788.
1.1.1.2. Rita Reyes (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born on Sep. 18, 1726 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México16 and died on an unknown date.
1.1.1.3. Lorenzo de Reyes (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born About 1720 and died on Nov. 3, 1777 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
1.1.1.4. Juana Maria de Los Reyes (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born About 1720 and died on Feb. 18, 1776 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
1.1.1.5. Francisco Xavier Reyes Medina (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born on Apr. 4, 1717 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on an unknown date.
1.1.1.6. Gertrudis Reyes (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born on May 3, 1719 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on an unknown date.
1.1.1.7. Antonia Cipriana de Reyes (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born on Oct. 16, 1724 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on an unknown date.

5th Generation (Great(2)-grandchildren)

1.1.1.1.1. Francisco Xavier Valades (Albaro1) was born About 1738 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died Before 1788. He married Maria Dionisia Massias on Nov. 5, 1758 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México17. Maria Dionisia, daughter of Miguel Macias (Cayetano1) and Maria Manuela de Esparza, was born About 1742 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died After 1788.

Hi All, my email is working again, im recieving the messages! Thanks to Arturo and Joseph who were working hard to get this thing working! Well anyway, Bill I am still confused at least on the Luisa Tiscareño, this is a new question, I guess was Luisa Tiscareño (hija de Luís y Lorenza) married to both Andrés López de Nava? (I think he appears at least once as González de Ruvalcaba or just Ruvalcaba) and Antonio Díaz de Lomas? I am so confused, because I though Luisa Tiscareño Esparza was married to Antonio but you said its Luisa Reyes Vargas? By the way, which Luisa was married to Marcos Marín de Peñaloza? Any comments appreciated! Thanks in advance to all within this post. -Daniel P.S. its possible that Luís recognized Juana and then she used his name? Its odd someone can just out of the blue use a different last name? Her mother could be a Vargas since usually natural children take the mother's name.

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Daniel,

Luisa Reyes Tiscareño married Antonio Díaz de Lomas; Isabel de los Reyes
Tiscareño married Diego Díaz de Lomas; and Theresa de los Reyes Tiscareño
married Francisco Díaz de Lomas. Antonio, Diego and Francisco Díaz de Lomas
were brothers, and Luisa, Isabel and Theresa Reyes Tiscareño were sisters.

Juana de Vargas probably changed her name to Juana de Tiscareño when her
father acknowledged her as a legitimate child before he died in 1660.

The Luisa de Esparza that married Marcos Marín de Peñaloza was a servant at
the Hacienda del Saucillo. Both Luisa and Marcos were "indios" that worked
for the powerful and wealthy Tiscareño and Marín de Peñaloza families. I
mentioned them in a previous message to illustrate the common practice among
slave owners/employers to allow some slaves & servants to use their surnames
when they didn't have one.

Bill Figueroa

Jaime, Daniel

Les escribo en español para mayor facilidad, ya que tengo poco tiempo disponible. Mas tarde les haré otros comentarios, pero creo que lo siguiente les va a interesar.

En el testamento otorgado en Aguascalientes en 1675 por Luis de los Reyes, declaró lo siguiente:

“En el nombre de Dios todopoderoso amen. Sepan cuantos la presente carta vieren de mi testamento., como Yo Luís de los Reyes, vecino de esta villa de Aguascalientes, hijo legítimo de Luís de Murguía y de María de la Cruz, vecinos que fueron de la Ciudad de México, ya difuntos, estando enfermo de una enfermedad que nuestro señor fue servido de darme, en mi entero juicio, tal cual nuestro Señor me la ha dado, considerando que todo ser viviente es mortal ...etc. etc.

Yten, declaro que soy casado y velado siguiendo la orden de nuestra santa madre iglesia con Juana de Tiscareño y mediante nuestro matrimonio hemos tenido y procreado por nuestros hijos a Juan de los Reyes María de la Cruz, Luisa de los Reyes, Isabel de Tiscareño, y Luís de los Reyes, Josepha, Inés, Juana, Theresa y Antonio de los Reyes, todos nuestros hijos legítimos , de los cuales se hayan hoy en estado de matrimonio Juan de los Reyes, María de la Cruz, Luisa de los Reyes e Isabel de Tiscareño, declárolo para que conste.

Yten, declaro que al tiempo y cuando tomé estado con la dicha mi mujer Juana de Tiscareño, me dio su tía María de la Xara para ayuda de la carga matrimonial unos doscientos pesos en reales y Luis de Tiscareño, padre de la dicha mi mujer, otra cantidad de pesos que por extenso no me acuerdo, mas constará por la carta de dote en su favor tengo otorgada, que de paso ante Joseph Leaño, escribano de su Majestad, a que me sea remitido, que me parece que con tiene de dote serán mil cuatrocientos cincuenta pesos y que a dicho tiempo sería mi caudal un poco más de cien pesos y una mulillas con las que empecé a trabajar.

Yten. Declaro por mis bienes las casas de mi morada con su anexo y pertenecientes, sala cuatro aposentos y trojes, todo cubierto de morillo y raja, todo nuevo.........etc."

Los párrafos anteriores son suficientes para confirmar lo siguiente:

1. Que los padres de Luis de los Reyes fueron Luis de Murguía y María de la Cruz, vecinos de la Ciudad de México, ya difuntos en 1675. No sé de donde viene el "de los Reyes" pero en ese tiempo era común usar el apellido de algún abuelo o abuela, y en algunos casos de un antepasado al que se le tenía gran estima.

2. Que contrajo matrimonio con Juana de Tiscareño, hija de Luis de Tiscareño, quien le dió en dote aproximadamente 1450 pesos. No menciona a la madre de su mujer, por lo que es posible que haya sido hija ilegítima.

3. Que Luis de los Reyes y Juana de Tiscareño tuvieron por hijos a los siguientes:

Juan

María de la Cruz

Luisa

Isabel

Luis

Josepha

Inés

Juana

Theresa

Antonio

Ahora bien, en los registros de la Parroquia de la Asunción de Aguascalientes he encontrado a los siguientes:

Juan, bapt. 12 Nov 1638

María, bapt. 11 Nov 1641 (mismo nombre que su abuela) m. Joseph Gómez de Santoyo abt. 1660

Luisa, bapt. 27 Sep 1643 m. Antonio Díaz de Lomas 9 Jul 1670

Luis, bapt. 10 Jul 1645 m. María de Mérida 31 Oct 1677

Isabel, bapt. 21 Jul 1652 m. Diego Díaz de Lomas 17 Sep 1674 d. 3 Sep 1721

Josepha, bapt. 21 Apr 1654

Inés, bapt. 8 Mar 1656 (madrina Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza)

Juana, bapt. 4 Feb 1658

Theresa, bapt. 13 Jun 1660 m. Francisco Díaz de Lomas 13 Jan 1683 d. after 1713

Antonio, bapt. ?, m. Isabel Ortiz Esparza 11 Nov 1681, d. 15 Apr 1742

De acuerdo al testamento, por 1675 estaban casados Juan, María, Luisa e Isabel. No he encontrado el acta de matrimonio de Juan, pero María, Luisa e Isabel casaron en 1660, 1670 y 1674. Luis, Theresa y Antonio contrajeron matrimonio cuando su padre ya había fallecido. Luis de los Reyes fue enterrado el 24 Jan 1675.

Una cosa muy importante es el orden en que Luis dió los nombres de sus hijos e hijas, el cual es un ORDEN CRONOLOGICO EXACTO.

To be continued....

Bill Figueroa

Bill,
The information you sent us is fascinating. I had estimated the dates of the births of Luis Reyes and Juana de Tiscareno rather late, based on the birthdates of some of their children. In checking Juan de Reyes christening, I found some interesting facts. First, he is listed as mestizo (were any of the other children listed that way?). Second, he was very ill, in danger of dying. so that as a precaution Maria de la Jara (I guess the same aunt of Juana mentioned in Luis' last will). It reads:

(Al margen) Juan Mestizo

En la Villa de Aguas Calientes en doce dias del mes de noviembre de mill y seiscientos y treinta i ocho en la (Iglesia) Parrochial catechise y exorcise; puse los olios Stos a un nino a quie en caso de necessi(dad) Baptizo Maria de la Jara y puso por nombre Juan, hijo legitimo de Luis de los Reyes y Juana de Vargas fue su Madrina de Baptismo y cathequismo ls susodicha y para que

(next page to center) 1638

y conste en testimonio de verdad lo firme.

Rubrica Diego de Torres y Rib.

Jaime

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Figueroa"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, May 1, 2009 12:40:40 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reyes / Tiscareño

Daniel,

Luisa Reyes Tiscareño married Antonio Díaz de Lomas; Isabel de los Reyes
Tiscareño married Diego Díaz de Lomas; and Theresa de los Reyes Tiscareño
married Francisco Díaz de Lomas. Antonio, Diego and Francisco Díaz de Lomas
were brothers, and Luisa, Isabel and Theresa Reyes Tiscareño were sisters.

Juana de Vargas probably changed her name to Juana de Tiscareño when her
father acknowledged her as a legitimate child before he died in 1660.

The Luisa de Esparza that married Marcos Marín de Peñaloza was a servant at
the Hacienda del Saucillo. Both Luisa and Marcos were "indios" that worked
for the powerful and wealthy Tiscareño and Marín de Peñaloza families. I
mentioned them in a previous message to illustrate the common practice among
slave owners/employers to allow some slaves & servants to use their surnames
when they didn't have one.

Bill Figueroa

Jaime and Bill et al. I was snoppoing around I found this in my records

Miguel de Velasco hijo de Francisco de Velasco y Nicolasa Ruiz de Esparza, hijo de Pedro Ruiz de Esparza, hijo de don Lope Ruiz de Esparza etc..y María de la Jara, hija de Miguel de Espinosa y Leonor de Estrada casaron 31 jul 1692, i just listed the Esparza conntection to see if anyone needs it. Is this María de la Jara related to Juana Tiscareño aka: Juana de Vargas? Since this María Jara parents do not include Jara it must be through a grandmother.

We need to find out more about the Jara family? Has anyone researched the,? -Daniel

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Here is a christening record that shows that Maria de la Jara and Maria de Espinosa are one and the same

Joseph de los Santos. Español hijo legitimo.
En la Villa de Aguas Calientes en once dias del mes de diciembre del presente año de nobenta i tres, Puse los Stos. olios a Joseph de los S(an)tos Español de edad de poco mas de un mes a quien en caso de necesidad echo el Agua el Br. Juan Lozano, hijo lejitimo de Miguel de Belasco i de Maria de la Jara y Espinosa fueron sus padrinos Annto de la Cruz; Petrona de Velasco (sister of Miguel Velasco) a quienes adverti la obligacion de la doctrina Christiana i cognacion espiritual i para que conste lo firme. Rubrica. Sebastian Murillo

Jaime Alvarado

Daniel and Bill,
I've found Maria's (Jara Espinosa) christening record, and I thinkd we can conclude that the "de la Jara" was perhaps given by her god parents:

(al margen) Ma. Española
En la Villa de aguascalientes en once dias del mes de marso de mill y seis sientos y setenta y un años baptise y puse os Santos olios a Maria hija lexitima de Miguel de Espinosa y de Leonor de Estrada su lexitima mujer fueron sus padrinos Luis de los Reies y Juana de Tiscareno a quienes adverti la obligacion y cognacion espiritual.
(Rubrica) Don Baltazar Fernando de Castilla

As Bill revealed to us, Juana Tiscareno was the protegee of aunt Maria de la Jara

Jaime Alvarado

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel M�ndez del Camino"
To: "Patty Hoyos"
Sent: Friday, May 1, 2009 2:47:16 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reyes / Tiscareño

Jaime and Bill et al. I was snoppoing around I found this in my records

Miguel de Velasco hijo de Francisco de Velasco y Nicolasa Ruiz de Esparza, hijo de Pedro Ruiz de Esparza, hijo de don Lope Ruiz de Esparza etc..y María de la Jara, hija de Miguel de Espinosa y Leonor de Estrada casaron 31 jul 1692, i just listed the Esparza conntection to see if anyone needs it. Is this María de la Jara related to Juana Tiscareño aka: Juana de Vargas? Since this María Jara parents do not include Jara it must be through a grandmother.

We need to find out more about the Jara family? Has anyone researched the,? -Daniel

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Jaime and Daniel,

As Jaime mentioned in an earlier message, Juan de los Reyes Tiscareño was
described by the priest as being "mestiso". All other children of Luis de
los Reyes and Juana de Tiscareño were described as "españoles". Of their
ten children, this is the only one described as "mestiso" but I have my
suspicions that Juana de Vargas was an illegitimate child of Luis Tiscareño
and that her mother, probably a sister of María de la Jara, may have been
"india" or "mestisa". Here is a transcription of the baptism of Juan de los
Reyes:

Al margen: "Joan mestiso"

"En la Villa de Aguas Calientes en dos dias del mes de noviembre de mill y
seiscientos y treintaiocho años en la Parrochial cathechise y exorcise, puse
los olios Stos a un niño a quien en caso de necesidad Baptiso María de la
Jara y puso por nombre Juan, hijo legitimo de Luis de los Reyes y Juana de
Vargas fue su madrina de Baptismo y cathecqismo la susodicha y para que
conste en testimonio de verdad lo firme [firma] el Licdo Diego de Torres y
Ribera"

I believe a child of "castizo" and "español" was considered "español". The
baptismal record of Isabel de los Reyes reads as follows:

Al margen: "Isabel española"

"En dho dia mes y año Baptise y puse los Stos Olios en esta Yglesia
Parrochial de aguas calientes a Ysabel hija lejitima de Luis de los Reies y
Juana de Vargas vecinos de esta villa fueron Padrinos Gaspar de Palos y
Maria de Retamossa su esposa [f] Melchor Tostado"

María de la Jara was still alive in 1654. The baptismal record of Josepha
de los Reyes reads as follows:

Al margen: "Josepha esp"

"En dho dia mes y año (21 abril 1654) Baptise y puse los Stos Olios a
Josepha hija lejitima de Luis de los Reies y Juana de Tiscareño fue su
Madrina Maria de la Xara. [firma] Melchor Tostado"

I believe this is the first time Juana appears with the surname Tiscareño.
The godmother of the next child, Inés de los Reyes, was Lorenza Ruiz de
Esparza. So, my guess is that shortly before 1654 Luis Tiscareño
acknowledged Juana as a legitimate child. Luis Tiscareño died in 1660.

María de la Jara Espinosa (daughter of Miguel de Espinosa and Leonor de
Estrada) may have been related to María de la Jara. Notice that she was
given "de la Xara" as part of her first name (nombre de pila) but preferred
to use María de Espinosa.

Incidentally, there are many clues in later records that confirm that Juana
de Vargas and Juana de Tiscareño were one and the same. Do you have any
doubts?

Bill Figueroa

Daniel,
Thanks for the info on Maria de Jara. I think we have made a very important breakthrough. After checking several records it appears Maria Jara (daughter of Miguel de Espinosa and Leonor Estrada) married to Miguel de Velasco, is the Maria Espinosa married to Miguel de Velasco we discussed a few days ago in another Forum. At the time we were exchanging information on Margarita Diaz Tiscareno married to Jose Maria Velasco, the son of Miguel Velasco and Maria Julian Beltran de la Cueva, in turn son of Miguel Velasco and Maria Espinosa. The timeline matches perfectly, and someone submitted several records to LDS of christenings and births of children of Miguel Velasco and Maria Espinosa, where she is listed as "Maria Jara Espinosa." It is possible that the "de Jara" was adopted in honor of Juana Tiscareno's aunt Maria de Jara, mentioned in the last testament of her husband Luis Reyes. Now, it would be interesting to figure out what is the connection of the two Marias.

Jaime Alvarado

For Bill and Jaime: Do you have anymore info on Francisco Velasco spouse of Nicolasa Esparza? And also on the Flores de Robles since now im reading they are Flores de la Torre? Who was the patriarch of the Beltrán de la Cueva. -Daniel P.s sorry its not totally relevent and will make a new topic, but is does include about the Velascos who married the Tiscareños.

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Daniel,

As far as I know, the compounded surname Beltrán de la Cueva started with
Pedro de la Cueva and Elena Beltrán. Some of their children used the
surname Beltrán de la Cueva, although sometimes they used only De la Cueva.
Pedro and Elena baptized five children en Aguascalientes between 1679-1690.

Bill Figueroa

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Méndez del Camino"
To: "Patty Hoyos"
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reyes / Tiscareño

For Bill and Jaime: Do you have anymore info on Francisco Velasco spouse of
Nicolasa Esparza? And also on the Flores de Robles since now im reading they
are Flores de la Torre? Who was the patriarch of the Beltrán de la
Cueva. -Daniel PS Sorry its not totally relevant and will make a new topic,
but is does include about the Velascos who married the Tiscareños.

Bill,
I'm convinced! You have presented enough direct evidence to leave little doubt that Juana Tiscareño married to Luis de Reyes was the daughter of Luis de Tiscareño. Further, it is clear that this Juana is not the same Juana, daughter of Lorenza, because we know she died 'single'. The only one thing that surprises me is how 'forgiving' Lorenza was of the 'situation' to even become the madrina of Inés in1656, just shortly after Juana started using the Tiscareño surname (1654), perhaps because she Luis recognized her in public. In many regards, Lorenza's action must have served as a validation of Juana's status.
Great research work!

Jaime Alvarado

Bill and Daniel,
In the burial record of Nicolasa Beltran de la Cueva -the names of her parents are listed as Pedro Beltran de la Cueva and Elena Beltran de la Cueva both from the town of Irapuato. Yet, in all the christenings of this couple children, they appears as Pedro de la Cueba and as Elena Beltran. Later, as Bill correctly mentioned, the Beltran de la Cueva appears. I wonder if they were indeed Beltran de la Cueva, maybe cousins and they were trying to hide the fact. I've tried to find more info on these couple, without success. However, there are records of the surname Beltran de la Cueba, Veltran de la Cueva, or Veltran de la Cueba in Guadalajara and in Guanjuato extending back to the mid 1600's.

Jaime Alvarado

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Figueroa"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, May 2, 2009 9:11:37 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reyes / Tiscareño

Daniel,

As far as I know, the compounded surname Beltrán de la Cueva started with
Pedro de la Cueva and Elena Beltrán. Some of their children used the
surname Beltrán de la Cueva, although sometimes they used only De la Cueva.
Pedro and Elena baptized five children en Aguascalientes between 1679-1690.

Bill Figueroa

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Méndez del Camino"
To: "Patty Hoyos"
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reyes / Tiscareño

For Bill and Jaime: Do you have anymore info on Francisco Velasco spouse of
Nicolasa Esparza? And also on the Flores de Robles since now im reading they
are Flores de la Torre? Who was the patriarch of the Beltrán de la
Cueva. -Daniel PS Sorry its not totally relevant and will make a new topic,
but is does include about the Velascos who married the Tiscareños.

The interesting part is Elena apparently uses the surnames Jaén (same as the Esparza do) and Gaytán where do these fit in. Pedro de la Cueva y Elena de Beltrán aka: Elena de Gaytán aka: Elena de Jaén -Daniel

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Saludos a todos los compañeros de nuestros ranchos.

Estoy siguiendo una linea de mis antepasados y estoy estancado en lo siguiente, si alguien tiene informacion se agradece de antemano

Jose Marcelino Santillán Reyes nacio el 3 mayo 1823 en Pabellon de Rincon de Romos Ags y se caso con Maria Quirina Del Refugio Guerrero Mercado.

Jose Marcelino es hijo de: Jose Maria Santillan y Maria Dionicia Relles que se casaron el 30 MAR 1818 San Jose De Garcia, Rincon De Romos Ags, ella nacio 09 APR 1802.

Hasta aqui he encontrado alguien sabe de este matrimonio y sus antepasados, Santillan o Santellan y Relles o Reyes.

saludos cordiales

Antonio Santillan

> Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 04:59:26 +0000
> From: alvaradj@comcast.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reyes / Tiscareño
>
> Bill,
> What is the evidence to support Juana Vargas (Tiscareño) as natural child of Luis Tiscareño de Molina? Is Luis listed in the marriage record of Luis de los Reyes and Juana de Vargas? I would be very interested in this information. Regarding this family, I have also done a fair bit of research, and I know that some members like George and Mickey will be interested in the following information, in particular as it relates to the relationship to the Medina family. Daniel may be intersted in some of the Tiscarenos. Regarding the children of Luis and Juana, I only had 9, I was missing Luis. In here I am including 5 generations.
>
> Jaime
>
> 1st Generation
>
> 1. Luis de Los Reyes (Luis1) was born About 1635 and died on Jan. 24, 1675 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México. He married Juana Tiscareño de Molina About 1654. Juana was born About 1638 and died on an unknown date.
>
> Children of Luis de Los Reyes and Juana Tiscareño de Molina
> 1.1.i.Antonio de Los Reyes was born About 1665 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.2.ii.Juana de Los Reyes was born on Feb. 4, 1658 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México1 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.3.iii.Theresa de Los Reyes was born on Jun. 13, 1660 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México2 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.4.iv.Ines Reyes Tiscareño was born on Mar. 8, 1656 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México3 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.5.v.Josepha de Los Reyes died on an unknown date.
> 1.6.vi.Luisa de Los Reyes died on an unknown date.
> 1.7.vii.Maria de Los Reyes died on an unknown date.
> 1.8.viii.Juan de Los Reyes died on an unknown date.
> 1.9.ix.Maria Tiscareño died on an unknown date.
> 1.10.x. Luis
>
> 2nd Generation (Children)
>
> 1.1. Antonio de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) was born About 1665 and died on an unknown date. He married Isavel de Esparza on Nov. 11, 1681 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México. Isavel, daughter of Juan de Ortiz and Luisa de Esparza (Pedro3, Lope2, Lope1), was born About 1662 and died Before 1709.
>
> Children of Antonio de Los Reyes and Isavel de Esparza
> 1.1.1.i.Joseph de Reyes was born About 1685 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.1.2.ii.Luis de Reyes was born on Apr. 27, 1693 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on Apr. 14, 1742 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
>
> 1.2. Juana de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) was born on Feb. 4, 1658 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México4 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.3. Theresa de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) was born on Jun. 13, 1660 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México5 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.4. Ines Reyes Tiscareño (Luis2, Luis1) was born on Mar. 8, 1656 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México6 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.5. Josepha de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) died on an unknown date. She married Mateo de Espinosa on Jul. 17, 1676 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
> 1.6. Luisa de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) died on an unknown date. She married Antonio Diaz de las Lomas on Jul. 9, 1670 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
> 1.7. Maria de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) died on an unknown date. She married Juan de Santoyo Gomez in 1666 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
> 1.8. Juan de Los Reyes (Luis2, Luis1) died on an unknown date.
> 1.9. Maria Tiscareño (Luis2, Luis1) died on an unknown date. She married Joseph Santoyo in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
>
> Children of Maria Tiscareño and Joseph Santoyo
> 1.9.1.i.Joseph Santoyo Tiscareño was born on Aug. 10, 1669 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México7 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.9.2.ii.Antonio Santoyo Reyes was born on Sep. 26, 1671 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México8 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.9.3.iii.Diego Santoyo Reyes was born on Jan. 20, 1665 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México9 and died on an unknown date.
>
> 3rd Generation (Grandchildren)
>
> 1.1.1. Joseph de Reyes (Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born About 1685 and died on an unknown date. He married Beatris de Medina on Mar. 11, 1709 in El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México. Beatris, daughter of Christobal de Medina and Maria de Avila, was born on Apr. 16, 1687 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México10 and died on an unknown date.
>
> Children of Joseph de Reyes and Beatris de Medina
> 1.1.1.1.i.Josefa Medina was born About 1720 and died on Jun. 10, 1742 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
> 1.1.1.2.ii.Rita Reyes was born on Sep. 18, 1726 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México11 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.1.1.3.iii.Lorenzo de Reyes was born About 1720 and died on Nov. 3, 1777 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
> 1.1.1.4.iv.Juana Maria de Los Reyes was born About 1720 and died on Feb. 18, 1776 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
> 1.1.1.5.v.Francisco Xavier Reyes Medina was born on Apr. 4, 1717 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on an unknown date.
> 1.1.1.6.vi.Gertrudis Reyes was born on May 3, 1719 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on an unknown date.
> 1.1.1.7.vii.Antonia Cipriana de Reyes was born on Oct. 16, 1724 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on an unknown date.
>
>
> 1.1.2. Luis de Reyes (Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born on Apr. 27, 1693 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on Apr. 14, 1742 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México. He married Gabriela de Medina, daughter of Christobal de Medina and Maria de Avila, on Nov. 14, 1714 in El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México12.
>
> 1.9.1. Joseph Santoyo Tiscareño (Joseph1) was born on Aug. 10, 1669 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México13 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.9.2. Antonio Santoyo Reyes (Joseph1) was born on Sep. 26, 1671 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México14 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.9.3. Diego Santoyo Reyes (Joseph1) was born on Jan. 20, 1665 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México15 and died on an unknown date.
>
>
> 4th Generation (Great-grandchildren)
>
> 1.1.1.1. Josefa Medina (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born About 1720 and died on Jun. 10, 1742 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México. She married Albaro Valades. Albaro was born About 1718 and died on an unknown date.
>
> Children of Josefa Medina and Albaro Valades
> 1.1.1.1.1.i.Francisco Xavier Valades was born About 1738 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died Before 1788.
> 1.1.1.2. Rita Reyes (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born on Sep. 18, 1726 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México16 and died on an unknown date.
> 1.1.1.3. Lorenzo de Reyes (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born About 1720 and died on Nov. 3, 1777 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
> 1.1.1.4. Juana Maria de Los Reyes (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born About 1720 and died on Feb. 18, 1776 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México.
> 1.1.1.5. Francisco Xavier Reyes Medina (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born on Apr. 4, 1717 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on an unknown date.
> 1.1.1.6. Gertrudis Reyes (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born on May 3, 1719 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on an unknown date.
> 1.1.1.7. Antonia Cipriana de Reyes (Joseph4, Antonio3, Luis2, Luis1) was born on Oct. 16, 1724 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died on an unknown date.
>
> 5th Generation (Great(2)-grandchildren)
>
> 1.1.1.1.1. Francisco Xavier Valades (Albaro1) was born About 1738 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died Before 1788. He married Maria Dionisia Massias on Nov. 5, 1758 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México17. Maria Dionisia, daughter of Miguel Macias (Cayetano1) and Maria Manuela de Esparza, was born About 1742 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México and died After 1788.
>
>
>

Hola Antonio, revisé el acta de matrimonio de tus ancestros en San José de Gracia, Rincón de Romos, Aguascalientes en 30 de marzo de 1818.

El acta dice: ... José María Santillanes, indio soltero de veinte años de edad, originario y vecino de Santiago, hijo legítimo de Atanasio Santillanes, difunto, y de María Juliana Jiménez; con María Dionisia Reyes, india doncella de diez y siete años de edad, originaria de Paredes y vecina de Santiago también de ésta feligresía de cinco meses a esta parte, hija legítima de Cornelio Reyes, difunto, y María Asención Morales...

José Atanasio Santillán y María Juliana Jiménez casaron en Rincón de Romos el día 25 de noviembre de 1795. El acta menciona lo siguinete: ... José Atanasio Santillán, indio de ésta feligresía en la Hacienda de Santiago, hijo legítimo de Asencio Santillán y de Juana María Manriquez, difunta; con María Juliana Jiménez, india de ésta feligresía en Santiago, hija legítima de José Justo Jiménez y María Francisca de Lara...

Asencio Santillán y Juana Hilaria (María) Manrique casaron en Aguascalientes el día 14 de febrero de 1762. El acta dice: ... Asencio Santillán, mulato originario de Lagos y vecino de esta Villa en Garabatos, hijo natural de María Marta Santillán; con Juana Hilaria Manrique, mulata originaria y vecina de ésta Villa en dicho Garabato, hija legítima de Rafael Manriquez y de Gertrudis Efigenia Serrano...

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Joge Luis Buen dia

te agradesco ti informacion muy valiosa y ademas confirmo un cambio el origen de mis antepasados, ahora seguire la linea que tu amablemente me pasaste.

Gracias y saludos

Antonio Santillan

> From: georgio_2386@hotmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 10:03:16 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reyes / Tiscareño
>
>
> Hola Antonio, revisé el acta de matrimonio de tus ancestros en San José de Gracia, Rincón de Romos, Aguascalientes en 30 de marzo de 1818.
>
>
>
> El acta dice: ... José María Santillanes, indio soltero de veinte años de edad, originario y vecino de Santiago, hijo legítimo de Atanasio Santillanes, difunto, y de María Juliana Jiménez; con María Dionisia Reyes, india doncella de diez y siete años de edad, originaria de Paredes y vecina de Santiago también de ésta feligresía de cinco meses a esta parte, hija legítima de Cornelio Reyes, difunto, y María Asención Morales...
>
>
>
> José Atanasio Santillán y María Juliana Jiménez casaron en Rincón de Romos el día 25 de noviembre de 1795. El acta menciona lo siguinete: ... José Atanasio Santillán, indio de ésta feligresía en la Hacienda de Santiago, hijo legítimo de Asencio Santillán y de Juana María Manriquez, difunta; con María Juliana Jiménez, india de ésta feligresía en Santiago, hija legítima de José Justo Jiménez y María Francisca de Lara...
>
>
>
> Asencio Santillán y Juana Hilaria (María) Manrique casaron en Aguascalientes el día 14 de febrero de 1762. El acta dice: ... Asencio Santillán, mulato originario de Lagos y vecino de esta Villa en Garabatos, hijo natural de María Marta Santillán; con Juana Hilaria Manrique, mulata originaria y vecina de ésta Villa en dicho Garabato, hija legítima de Rafael Manriquez y de Gertrudis Efigenia Serrano...
>
>
>
> Saludos.
> Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> ¿Quieres ganar premios con Windows Live?
> www.actualizatuperfil.com.mx

Saludos a todos:

Algun pariente o linea de Asencio Santillán y Juana Hilaria (María) Manrique casaron en Aguascalientes el día 14 de febrero de 1762. El acta dice: ... Asencio Santillán, originario de Lagos y vecino de esta Villa en Garabatos, hijo natural de María Marta Santillán; con Juana Hilaria Manrique, originaria y vecina de ésta Villa en dicho Garabato, hija legítima de Rafael Manriquez y de Gertrudis Efigenia Serrano.

Sobre todo ligas o linea ancestral de Asencio y su mama María Marta Santillán ya que no viene nombre del padre por lo cual supongo que fue una madre soltera o algo parecido vecinos de Lagos.

Gracias de antemano

Antonio Santilan

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