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Por gloriad648 |

Hello Bill,

You recently wrote about your ancestor Vicente RUIZ DE ESPARZA and his second wife, Rafaela de TRILLO y Delgado.
Could Rafaela TRILLO be the same person as Maria Raphaela Catharina CARRILLO, or does Vicente have a third marriage?

I came across the following last night, the "Carrillo" is very clearly written:

INFORMACION MATRIMONIAL: Pilot Site
Aguascalientes, Sagrario INFO MAT 1775, Images 453, 454, 455
Sep 15 1775
Vicente RUIZ DE ESPARZA, originario y vecino de Aguascalientes
hijo lexitimo de Francisco RUIZ DE ESPARZA y Josepha de VLLOA, difuntos
Viudo de Catharina de OROSCO y Rayas nueve meses ha, sepultada en esta parroquia
con
Maria Raphaela Catharina CARRILLO, espanola, orig y vecina de esta Villa
hija natural de Manuela CARRILLO
TESTIGOS: Don Eugenio de ESPARZA, Domingo de ESPARZA, y Jose Alvino PRIETO

Thank you in advance for your imput.

Gloria Delgado

Gloria

Have you found Vicente's marriage information to Catalina (Catarina) Orosco de Ralla? I am going through the marriage info images and recognized the name. Film 1747 at the pilot site, image 350

Rose

Hi Bill,

With all due respect and gratitude for how you have helped me and so many others with our troubled and tangled lines of research, may I offer an alternative opinion, another point of view:

While it's of course possible for one marriage record to be botched or mixed with another, it's very difficult for me to believe that Vicente RUIZ-ESPARZA's marriage and informacion matrimonial records were both botched in exactly the same way, given that they were recorded on different days, the records themselves are clear, neatly done and complete, with the added definite identification of Vicente's first wife Catarina OROSCO.

However, as you do, I too feel that the information about Rafaela TRILLO being Vicente's wife is also absolutely overwhelming, especially with the definite statement that she was Vicente's second wife. I'm inclined to put less weight on the evidence of her death record, though, for in this case it is not the testimony of her parents that she is una hija legitima, as the parents are deceased, but the word of Raphaela, or perhaps of her children, who may or not be completely informed as to the exact circumstances of their mother's birth. The priest does not indicate if he recorded her own words.

But since both women share the same given name, (flimsy evidence by itself but in this case it is significant), and more importantly, given the current lack of a death record for Raphaela Catharina CARRILLO, or of a baptismal record for Raphaela TRILLO, it seems more logical for me, as a neutral onlooker, until these missing records are found, to take, as a working hypothesis, that Raphaela Catharina CARRILLO and Raphaela TRILLO Delgado are one and the same person.

Even if you don't accept Raphaela CARRILLO as an ancestor, the problem remains - what to do about the proverbial "elephant in the room." Raphaela CARRILLO has to be accounted for, and not merely ignored because of her inconvenient or troubling presence.

I took another look at the informacion matrimonial, where Vicente's age is given as 60 (he was 54) and Raphaela Catharina's as 15. It's not possible to mistake a 15 year old girl for an older woman, my point being that her age was probably accurate.

Then I looked at the baptismal record for Vicente's first? son Joseph Calletano, 15 Apr 1746, and found that it was not a baptism at all, but a note from the church authorities of Guadalajara, stating that Don Joseph Calletano (the child) was baptized in Guadalajara 1 year 3 months before his parents, Don Vicente and Doña Catharina, were married. I haven't seen very many baptisms where the child is labeled don or dona.

Vicente must have been a person of substantial social standing and importance to have his son's record added to the Aguas parish records in this way. May I then tentatively assume that it is also possible that Vicente had some influence in changing his second's wife status from an hija natural, if this is what this 15 year old girl was, to an hija legitima?

So now, if you accept this premise, how did Raphaela CARRILLO become Raphaela TRILLO? My working theory would be that perhaps Raphaela is the hija natural of Thomas TRILLO and not of his wife Manuela DELGADO, and was adopted by them, or she is the daughter of another close relative, someone's hija expuesta, of sufficient social standing to become Don Vicente's second wife. If Raphaela CARRILLO can't be located in Aguascalientes, perhaps she is in Guadalajara, as the family seems to have had connections there.

I spent years searching for my own MARQUES-TRILLO connection, while all that time ignoring my own "elephant in the room" - a missing name, a blank space where the mother's name should be. My mistake was in believing that my ancestor's step-mother was his birth mother, as wrongfully claimed in his marriage document and informacion matrimonial. Hopefully your search will be more successful.

Gloria Delgado

Hi Gloria,

Thank you for your assessment of Vicente Ruiz de Esparza's marriages. In
all honesty, I had not paid much attention to the children of his first
marriage. However, I had noted in my records that his first son Joseph
Cayetano had been baptized more than a year before Vicente and Catarina were
married. Notice that the actual baptismal record is also included in the
book. In that record, dated 15 April 1746, he was declared "hijo de padres
no conocidos". The note, written by the priest with instructions from a
higher church authority in Guadalajara, was added 23 March 1787. No wonder
he is referred as Don Jph Cayetano. He was already 41 years old when the
note written. His baptismal record reads as follows:

Al margen: "9. Joseph Cayetano Español 37."

"En la Iglesia Parroquial de la Villa de Aguascalientes en quinse de Abril
de mil setecientos quarenta y seis años baptise solemnemente a Joseph
Cayetano que nació en esta villa el día trese del corriente mes Español hijo
de Padres no conocidos fueron sus padrinos Joseph Rodrigo de Emasabel y
Maria Franca. de Emasabel a quienes adberti su obligacion y Cognacion
espiritual y lo firme [firma] Manuel Colon de Larreatigui" [Bautismos
1744-1747 Image 81/195 Foja 62a]

It is possible that the names of his parents did not disclosed their
identity to protect their social status. However, I look at it from a
different angle. Could it be that Joseph Cayetano was adopted by Vicente
and Catarina after they were married? Was the note added later in order to
protect Joseph Cayetano's name? It is obvious, though, that Joseph Cayetano
needed proof that Vicente and Catarina were his biological parents, probably
for legal purposes such as to receive inheritances, get married, etc. Being
a legitimate child was very important in those days. Today, hundreds of
children are born every day to unwed parents and nobody gives a hoot, but in
"colonial 1787 Mexico" it probably was a stigma. Here is a transcription of
the note included with the baptismal record:

"Por Superior Despacho de el Señor Provisor y Vicario General de este
Obispado, su fecha in Guadalaxara a veinte y tres de marzo de mil
setecientos ochenta y siete, se pone la nota siguiente a esta Partida: Dn.
Jph Calletano Ruiz de Esparza, es Espl. é hijo de Dn. Vizte. Ruiz de
Esparza, y Da. Catarina de Orosco y Raya, por matrimonio que estos
contrageron un año, y tres meses despues de su nacimiento, como consta en el
libro correspondiente en la foxa quatro cientas vista; y para que conste lo
firmé [firma] José María Guzman" [Bautismos 1744-1747 Image 81/195 Foja
61b]

A little more history. Vicente and Catarina had a second child, María
Aniceta Ruiz de Esparza, baptized in Aguascalientes on 7 May 1749. Her
baptismal record reads:

Al margen: "9. Ana María Aniceta Española Bqes. 22."

"En la Iglesia Parrochial de la Villa de Aguascalientes a siete de Mayo de
mil setecientos quarenta y nueve Baptise Solemnemente a Ana María Aniceta
Española de veinte y tres dias de nasida en esta Villa hija lexitima de
Vizente de Esparsa y de Catharina de Rallas fueron sus Padrinos Joseph
Calbillo y Lugarda Lopez de Lara a quienes adverti la obligacion y cognacion
espiritual y lo firmamos. [firma] Manuel Colon de Larreatigui" [firma]
Padre Joseph Vasquez Colon de Larreatigui" [Bautismos 1749-1752 Image 24/406
Foja 20b]

I did not see anything in their wedding information to indicate that this
couple had a child before getting married. Vicente was 25 years old and
Catarina was 22 when they tied the knot. Notwithstanding, I firmly believe
that in genealogy we should never make assumptions or guesses and use only
hard cold facts, regardless of how difficult it is to accept them.
Therefore, I have included Joseph Cayetano as a child born out of wedlock 1
year 7 months and 16 days before his parents were married.

I will stop here and give you my assessment of Vicente's marriage to Rafaela
de Trillo y Delgado in a separate email. Thank you Gloria for your thoughts
on this matter.

Regards,

Bill Figueroa.

Hello Gloria,

I'm glad you asked that question. I found these records a few years ago, and wondered if the priest had made a gross error when he wrote the marriage record. So far I've not been able to find a third marriage. However, no other records mention María Raphaela Catharina Carrillo. I'll give some additional data before I draw my conclusion:

Their first child, José Ricardo, was baptized 8 April 1778 in Aguascalientes. His parents are listed as Dn. Vicente Ruiz de Esparza y Da. Raphaela Delgado (Bautismos 1777-1779, Image 121/365 Foja 158b)

My ggg-grandfather Francisco Antonio Abad, was baptized 2 Feb 1781 in Aguascalientes. His parents are listed as Vicente Ruiz de Esparza y Rafaela Delgado (Bautismos 1781-1782, Image 11/298 Foja 10)

José Gabriel Felipe, was baptized 24 Nov 1783 in Aguascalientes. His parents are listed as Vicente Esparza y Rafaela Delgado (Bautismos 1781-1786, Image 97/192 Foja 93b)

Their fourth and last child, José León, was baptized 16 April 1789 in Aguascalientes. His parents are listed as Vicente de Esparza y Rafaela Trillo (Bautismos 1786-1795, Image 100/303 Foja 96b)

In the "Padrón de Españoles, Castizos y Mestizos, Subdelegación de Aguascalientes, 15 June 1792" they were living on Calle de Nieto and are listed as Vicente Esparza and Rafaela Delgado, one son 13 years old and three younger children.

Vicente and Rafaela died a few years later. Vicente died on 21 June 1797. His death/burial record reads as follows:

Al margen: "Aguascalientes, Dn. Vicente Ruiz de Esparza, espl. casado"

"En la Iglesia Parroquial de la Villa de Aguascalientes, en veinte y uno del mes de Junio de mil setecientos noventa y siete años: Yo el Br. D. Cesáreo López, con licencia del Rd. D. Miguel Rios, Cura propio, di Sepultura Ecclesiástica a Dn. Vicente Ruiz de Esparza espl. de esta Villa, hijo legítimo de Dn. Francisco Ruiz de Esparza y de Da. Josefa Uyoa, difuntos, fue casado en segundas nupcias con Da. María Rafaela de Trillo, se le administraron los Santos Sacramentos de Penitencia, Eucaristía y Extrema Unción, y para que conste lo firmamos. [firma] Miguel Ríos [firma] Cesáreo López." (Defunciones 1791-1799, Image 179/335 Foja 34b)

Notice that his death record says that he was married "en segundas nupcias con María Rafaela de Trillo".

Rafaela de Trillo died two months later on 29 August 1797. Her death/burial record reads as follows:

Al margen: "Aguascalientes, Da. Rafaela de Trillo, española viuda"

"En la Iglesia Parroquial de la Villa de Aguascalientes, en veinte y nueve del mes de Agosto de mil setecientos noventa y sie3te años: yo el Br. Dn. Rafael Soto, como teniente del Br. Dn. Cesareo López, Cura Substituto, di sepultura Ecclesiástica a Da. Rafaela de Trillo española de esta Villa, hija legítima de Dn. José Tomás de Trillo, y de Da. María Manuela Delgado, difuntos, viuda de Dn. Vicente Ruiz de Esparza, se le administraron los Santos Sacramentos de Penitencia, Eucaristía y Extrema Unción, y para que conste lo firmamos. [firma] Cesáreo López [firma] Rafael Soto." (Defunciones 1791-1799, Image 189/335 Foja 48b)

The most important fact about this record is that her parents are Dn. José Tomás de Trillo and Da. María Manuela Delgado, and that she is their legitimate daughter..

I have several more records that mention Vicente Ruiz de Esparza and Rafaela de Trillo y Delgado, including the baptismal record of my gg-Grandmother Refugio Ruiz de Esparza in Rincón de Romos in 1819, which reads as follows:

Al margen: "Rincón, María del Refugio, Española"

"En la Capilla del Rincón de Romos ayuda de Parroquia del Pueblo de S. José de Gracia en diez y ocho de Enero de Ochocientos dies y Nueve Yo el Br. Dn. José María Casaus como Ministro de ella y de licencia Parroqui bautice Solemnemente puse los Santos Oleos y crisma a María del Refugio de los Reyes, Española de quatro dias de nacida H. L. de Dn. Franco. de Esparza y de Da. Gertrudis Escovedo A.P. Dn. Bicente Esparza y Da. Rafaela Trillo A.M. Dn. José Manuel Escovedo y Da. María Antonia Escalera Padrinos Dn. Miguel Ponce y Da. Gertrudis Montañez a quienes advertí su obligación y parentesco Espiritual y para que conste lo firmé con el Sr. Cura [firma] José Anto. Hurtado de Mendoza [firma] José María Casaus"

Based on the overwhelming information I found about Rafaela de Trillo, I reached the conclusion that she is not the same person as María Rafaela Catharina Carrillo. I think it's possible that María Rafaela Carrillo died during pregnancy or while having her first child between 1775 and 1777. But let's not discard the possibility that the marriage record was mixed with another or mishandled by the church. What do you think?

Regards,
Bill Figueroa

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gloria"
To:
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:27 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] RUIZ ESPARZA, Vicente - for Bill Figueroa

Hello Bill,

You recently wrote about your ancestor Vicente RUIZ DE ESPARZA and his second wife, Rafaela de TRILLO y Delgado.
Could Rafaela TRILLO be the same person as Maria Raphaela Catharina CARRILLO, or does Vicente have a third marriage?

I came across the following last night, the "Carrillo" is very clearly written:

INFORMACION MATRIMONIAL: Pilot Site
Aguascalientes, Sagrario INFO MAT 1775, Images 453, 454, 455
Sep 15 1775
Vicente RUIZ DE ESPARZA, originario y vecino de Aguascalientes
hijo lexitimo de Francisco RUIZ DE ESPARZA y Josepha de VLLOA, difuntos
Viudo de Catharina de OROSCO y Rayas nueve meses ha, sepultada en esta parroquia
con > Maria Raphaela Catharina CARRILLO, espanola, orig y vecina de esta Villa
hija natural de Manuela CARRILLO
TESTIGOS: Don Eugenio de ESPARZA, Domingo de ESPARZA, y Jose Alvino PRIETO

Thank you in advance for your imput.

Gloria Delgado

Genealogy Research