Hi All, Im looking for the parents of Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayor
who married Petronila de Magana (bapt, 1 Nov 1698) on 30 Nov 1725
in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. I have a suspicion that Ignacio was son of
Isidro Martin de Sotomayor and Josepha Lopez de la Cerda.
Jose de Jesus Barba Ornelas.
Es correcto, pero sin el Ygnacio, es el Cap. Ysidro Martin o Martinez de Sotomayor y es hijo leg. de Andres Martin de Sotomayor o Martin Camacho y de Doña Maria de Isla y Moctesuma. Saludos.
Juan jose ignacio martin de sotomayor, son of juan Ignacio Isidro martin Sotomayor and josefa ramirez rodriguez lopez de la cerda was married to josefa casillas Gomez on 22Jun1700. J.J.Ignacio and Josefa had a son named Juan Ignacio M de S married to Ma. De Jesus de la torre ledesma about 1739.
------Original Message------
From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 21, 2010 11:06 PM
Hi All, Im looking for the parents of Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayor
who married Petronila de Magana (bapt, 1 Nov 1698) on 30 Nov 1725
in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. I have a suspicion that Ignacio was son of
Isidro Martin de Sotomayor and Josepha Lopez de la Cerda.
I thought Jospeha Lopez de la Cerda's parents were Nicolas Lopez de la Cerdaand Maria de Vielma, how does Rodriguez Ramirez fit in this?
Thanks, Daniel
Im looking for the Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayorwho married Petronilade Magana.
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:24:17 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> Juan jose ignacio martin de sotomayor, son of juan Ignacio Isidro martin Sotomayor and josefa ramirez rodriguez lopez de la cerda was married to josefa casillas Gomez on 22Jun1700. J.J.Ignacio and Josefa had a son named Juan Ignacio M de S married to Ma. De Jesus de la torre ledesma about 1739.
> ------Original Message------
> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
> Sent: Mar 21, 2010 11:06 PM
>
> Hi All, Im looking for the parents of Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayor
> who married Petronila de Magana (bapt, 1 Nov 1698) on 30 Nov 1725
> in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. I have a suspicion that Ignacio was son of
> Isidro Martin de Sotomayor and Josepha Lopez de la Cerda.
>
> Regards,
> Daniel
I am positive as to her parents because of her death record
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 18:24:47
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
I thought Jospeha Lopez de la Cerda's parents were Nicolas Lopez de la Cerdaand Maria de Vielma, how does Rodriguez Ramirez fit in this?
Thanks, Daniel
Im looking for the Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayorwho married Petronilade Magana.
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:24:17 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> Juan jose ignacio martin de sotomayor, son of juan Ignacio Isidro martin Sotomayor and josefa ramirez rodriguez lopez de la cerda was married to josefa casillas Gomez on 22Jun1700. J.J.Ignacio and Josefa had a son named Juan Ignacio M de S married to Ma. De Jesus de la torre ledesma about 1739.
> ------Original Message------
> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
> Sent: Mar 21, 2010 11:06 PM
>
> Hi All, Im looking for the parents of Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayor
> who married Petronila de Magana (bapt, 1 Nov 1698) on 30 Nov 1725
> in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. I have a suspicion that Ignacio was son of
> Isidro Martin de Sotomayor and Josepha Lopez de la Cerda.
>
> Regards,
> Daniel
I verified the burial record you indicated, and this individual cannot be the same Josefa Lopez de la Serda because of two main reasons:
1st, this Josefa is identified as Doncella (=virgin), 2. She was 42 years old when she died, thus she was born around 1735. Josefa, wife of Isidro Martin must have been born much earlier.
Here is the transcription of that record:
(Al Margen) Aguascalien[tes]
Maria Josefa Lopes de la Serda Esp[ano]la donsella
En la iglecia parroquia de la Villa de Aguas Calientes en catorse de Abril de mil setecientos y setenta y siete anos: Yo el Br. Dn. Jose Ignacio Delgadillo como Theniente del Don Dr. Vicente Antonio Flores Alatorre, di sepultura eclesiastica a Maria Josefa Lopez de la Serda Espanola Donsella de quarenta y dos anos de edad; orig[ina]ria de esta feligrecia en Puertos, y vecina de esta Villa, hija leg[iti]ma de Juan Manuel Lopez de la Serda y de Maria de Jesus Diaz defunta; se le administraron los Santos [Sa}cramentos de Penitencia, Eucharistia, y Extrema Uncion; No {tenia?) de que testar, y para que conste lo firmamos.
(rubricas) Br. Delgadillos Don Vicente Antonio Flores de la Torre Joseph Ign. Delgadillo.
I am not sure where de rodriguez ramirez fits in but I sometimes found one or the other attached to the de la cerda last name as if was part of it. Sometimes rodr sometimesb ramirez. Still searching for why.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 18:24:47
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
I thought Jospeha Lopez de la Cerda's parents were Nicolas Lopez de la Cerdaand Maria de Vielma, how does Rodriguez Ramirez fit in this?
Thanks, Daniel
Im looking for the Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayorwho married Petronilade Magana.
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:24:17 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> Juan jose ignacio martin de sotomayor, son of juan Ignacio Isidro martin Sotomayor and josefa ramirez rodriguez lopez de la cerda was married to josefa casillas Gomez on 22Jun1700. J.J.Ignacio and Josefa had a son named Juan Ignacio M de S married to Ma. De Jesus de la torre ledesma about 1739.
> ------Original Message------
> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
> Sent: Mar 21, 2010 11:06 PM
>
> Hi All, Im looking for the parents of Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayor
> who married Petronila de Magana (bapt, 1 Nov 1698) on 30 Nov 1725
> in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. I have a suspicion that Ignacio was son of
> Isidro Martin de Sotomayor and Josepha Lopez de la Cerda.
>
> Regards,
> Daniel
I just went baCk and did find the info for you her father is juan manuel lopez de la cerda and her mother is maria de jesus diaz de sandi. It says she was born in Rayos
------Original Message------
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 23, 2010 9:46 PM
Do you know the name of the parents of Joseph (Rodrigues Ramires) Lopez de la Serda?
I will check my info tomorrow. I may have mixed up to two records but one of the records specifally named her hjusband also as ignacio Martin de sotomayor. And the record was not the same one that you transcribed.
------Original Message------
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 24, 2010 8:54 PM
I verified the burial record you indicated, and this individual cannot be the same Josefa Lopez de la Serda because of two main reasons:
1st, this Josefa is identified as Doncella (=virgin), 2. She was 42 years old when she died, thus she was born around 1735. Josefa, wife of Isidro Martin must have been born much earlier.
Here is the transcription of that record:
(Al Margen) Aguascalien[tes]
Maria Josefa Lopes de la Serda Esp[ano]la donsella
En la iglecia parroquia de la Villa de Aguas Calientes en catorse de Abril de mil setecientos y setenta y siete anos: Yo el Br. Dn. Jose Ignacio Delgadillo como Theniente del Don Dr. Vicente Antonio Flores Alatorre, di sepultura eclesiastica a Maria Josefa Lopez de la Serda Espanola Donsella de quarenta y dos anos de edad; orig[ina]ria de esta feligrecia en Puertos, y vecina de esta Villa, hija leg[iti]ma de Juan Manuel Lopez de la Serda y de Maria de Jesus Diaz defunta; se le administraron los Santos [Sa}cramentos de Penitencia, Eucharistia, y Extrema Uncion; No {tenia?) de que testar, y para que conste lo firmamos.
(rubricas) Br. Delgadillos Don Vicente Antonio Flores de la Torre Joseph Ign. Delgadillo.
-----Original Message-----
From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 04:16:27
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
I will check my info tomorrow. I may have mixed up to two records but one of the records specifally named her hjusband also as ignacio Martin de sotomayor. And the record was not the same one that you transcribed.
------Original Message------
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 24, 2010 8:54 PM
I verified the burial record you indicated, and this individual cannot be the same Josefa Lopez de la Serda because of two main reasons:
1st, this Josefa is identified as Doncella (=virgin), 2. She was 42 years old when she died, thus she was born around 1735. Josefa, wife of Isidro Martin must have been born much earlier.
Here is the transcription of that record:
(Al Margen) Aguascalien[tes]
Maria Josefa Lopes de la Serda Esp[ano]la donsella
En la iglecia parroquia de la Villa de Aguas Calientes en catorse de Abril de mil setecientos y setenta y siete anos: Yo el Br. Dn. Jose Ignacio Delgadillo como Theniente del Don Dr. Vicente Antonio Flores Alatorre, di sepultura eclesiastica a Maria Josefa Lopez de la Serda Espanola Donsella de quarenta y dos anos de edad; orig[ina]ria de esta feligrecia en Puertos, y vecina de esta Villa, hija leg[iti]ma de Juan Manuel Lopez de la Serda y de Maria de Jesus Diaz defunta; se le administraron los Santos [Sa}cramentos de Penitencia, Eucharistia, y Extrema Uncion; No {tenia?) de que testar, y para que conste lo firmamos.
(rubricas) Br. Delgadillos Don Vicente Antonio Flores de la Torre Joseph Ign. Delgadillo.
The record I have states that maria josefa de la cerda married to jose ignaciO martinez de sotomayor is the daughter juan manuel de la cerda and ma. De jesus diaz de sandi and it shows a burial date of 6apr1778. Film number 299861.
------Original Message------
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 24, 2010 8:54 PM
I verified the burial record you indicated, and this individual cannot be the same Josefa Lopez de la Serda because of two main reasons:
1st, this Josefa is identified as Doncella (=virgin), 2. She was 42 years old when she died, thus she was born around 1735. Josefa, wife of Isidro Martin must have been born much earlier.
Here is the transcription of that record:
(Al Margen) Aguascalien[tes]
Maria Josefa Lopes de la Serda Esp[ano]la donsella
En la iglecia parroquia de la Villa de Aguas Calientes en catorse de Abril de mil setecientos y setenta y siete anos: Yo el Br. Dn. Jose Ignacio Delgadillo como Theniente del Don Dr. Vicente Antonio Flores Alatorre, di sepultura eclesiastica a Maria Josefa Lopez de la Serda Espanola Donsella de quarenta y dos anos de edad; orig[ina]ria de esta feligrecia en Puertos, y vecina de esta Villa, hija leg[iti]ma de Juan Manuel Lopez de la Serda y de Maria de Jesus Diaz defunta; se le administraron los Santos [Sa}cramentos de Penitencia, Eucharistia, y Extrema Uncion; No {tenia?) de que testar, y para que conste lo firmamos.
(rubricas) Br. Delgadillos Don Vicente Antonio Flores de la Torre Joseph Ign. Delgadillo.
There is another sister of the same name and that was the other record.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 15:46:21
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
The record I have states that maria josefa de la cerda married to jose ignaciO martinez de sotomayor is the daughter juan manuel de la cerda and ma. De jesus diaz de sandi and it shows a burial date of 6apr1778. Film number 299861.
------Original Message------
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 24, 2010 8:54 PM
I verified the burial record you indicated, and this individual cannot be the same Josefa Lopez de la Serda because of two main reasons:
1st, this Josefa is identified as Doncella (=virgin), 2. She was 42 years old when she died, thus she was born around 1735. Josefa, wife of Isidro Martin must have been born much earlier.
Here is the transcription of that record:
(Al Margen) Aguascalien[tes]
Maria Josefa Lopes de la Serda Esp[ano]la donsella
En la iglecia parroquia de la Villa de Aguas Calientes en catorse de Abril de mil setecientos y setenta y siete anos: Yo el Br. Dn. Jose Ignacio Delgadillo como Theniente del Don Dr. Vicente Antonio Flores Alatorre, di sepultura eclesiastica a Maria Josefa Lopez de la Serda Espanola Donsella de quarenta y dos anos de edad; orig[ina]ria de esta feligrecia en Puertos, y vecina de esta Villa, hija leg[iti]ma de Juan Manuel Lopez de la Serda y de Maria de Jesus Diaz defunta; se le administraron los Santos [Sa}cramentos de Penitencia, Eucharistia, y Extrema Uncion; No {tenia?) de que testar, y para que conste lo firmamos.
(rubricas) Br. Delgadillos Don Vicente Antonio Flores de la Torre Joseph Ign. Delgadillo.
This Josefa cannot be either. This one died while giving birth on 1778. "No se le administraron los Santos Sacramentos porque murio de parto." The Josefa Lopez de la Serda married to Isidro Martin must have been born around 1660-70 roughly 110+ years earlier (their son Ignacio was born in 1691). I guess it is one more of those coincidences of couples with the same names marrying in different generations. In Nuevo Leon, I have several examples such as this that create much confusion among genealogists.
You are correct that it is not the same one you are lookng for. Juan Ignacio martin de sotomayor was in my records all along but I thought you looking for one in a different time period. The correct one, Juan Ignacio Isidro martin de sotomayo is a captain and is the son of Andres martin de sotomayor, paternal grandson of Andres Martin and Maria de Ruelas Sotomayor. He was born in Sierra de los Pinos aguascalientes I do not have Josefa's parents but this is the josefa that sometimes has rodriguez or ramirez attached to de la cerda. That I got right.
I should probably not respond to messages during the day since I do not have access to all my data until I get home in the evening
------Original Message------
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 25, 2010 6:49 PM
This Josefa cannot be either. This one died while giving birth on 1778. "No se le administraron los Santos Sacramentos porque murio de parto." The Josefa Lopez de la Serda married to Isidro Martin must have been born around 1660-70 roughly 110+ years earlier (their son Ignacio was born in 1691). I guess it is one more of those coincidences of couples with the same names marrying in different generations. In Nuevo Leon, I have several examples such as this that create much confusion among genealogists.
Okay this makes sense, I actually never knew Josepha Lopez de la Cerda,used Ramirez or Rodriguez. I wonder who stated that she was daughterof Nicolas Lopez de la Cerda and Maria de Vielma (Ruiz de Esparza)?
Since a marriage record has never been found for Isidro Martin de Sotomayorand Josepha Lopez de la Cerda, one could not be sure, Isidro's ancestry is correctit has been studied very well, but Josepha is a different story, I have almostnever read an article or essay on these Lopez de la Cerda.
As for Josepha's "parents" I have only found one child, Juan Lopez de la Cerdabaptized in Aguascalientes, 5 Apr 1654. I guess Josepha might have been "added"as a daughter because of the timeline and it does fit but one needs evidence.
Regards,Daniel
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 04:50:12 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> You are correct that it is not the same one you are lookng for. Juan Ignacio martin de sotomayor was in my records all along but I thought you looking for one in a different time period. The correct one, Juan Ignacio Isidro martin de sotomayo is a captain and is the son of Andres martin de sotomayor, paternal grandson of Andres Martin and Maria de Ruelas Sotomayor. He was born in Sierra de los Pinos aguascalientes I do not have Josefa's parents but this is the josefa that sometimes has rodriguez or ramirez attached to de la cerda. That I got right.
> I should probably not respond to messages during the day since I do not have access to all my data until I get home in the evening
> ------Original Message------
> From: Jaime R. Alvarado
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
> Sent: Mar 25, 2010 6:49 PM
>
> This Josefa cannot be either. This one died while giving birth on 1778. "No se le administraron los Santos Sacramentos porque murio de parto." The Josefa Lopez de la Serda married to Isidro Martin must have been born around 1660-70 roughly 110+ years earlier (their son Ignacio was born in 1691). I guess it is one more of those coincidences of couples with the same names marrying in different generations. In Nuevo Leon, I have several examples such as this that create much confusion among genealogists.
>
>
> Jaime
If you find the source stating josefa is the daughter of nicolas and maria please let me know. Thanks
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 21:56:43
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Okay this makes sense, I actually never knew Josepha Lopez de la Cerda,used Ramirez or Rodriguez. I wonder who stated that she was daughterof Nicolas Lopez de la Cerda and Maria de Vielma (Ruiz de Esparza)?
Since a marriage record has never been found for Isidro Martin de Sotomayorand Josepha Lopez de la Cerda, one could not be sure, Isidro's ancestry is correctit has been studied very well, but Josepha is a different story, I have almostnever read an article or essay on these Lopez de la Cerda.
As for Josepha's "parents" I have only found one child, Juan Lopez de la Cerdabaptized in Aguascalientes, 5 Apr 1654. I guess Josepha might have been "added"as a daughter because of the timeline and it does fit but one needs evidence.
Regards,Daniel
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 04:50:12 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> You are correct that it is not the same one you are lookng for. Juan Ignacio martin de sotomayor was in my records all along but I thought you looking for one in a different time period. The correct one, Juan Ignacio Isidro martin de sotomayo is a captain and is the son of Andres martin de sotomayor, paternal grandson of Andres Martin and Maria de Ruelas Sotomayor. He was born in Sierra de los Pinos aguascalientes I do not have Josefa's parents but this is the josefa that sometimes has rodriguez or ramirez attached to de la cerda. That I got right.
> I should probably not respond to messages during the day since I do not have access to all my data until I get home in the evening
> ------Original Message------
> From: Jaime R. Alvarado
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
> Sent: Mar 25, 2010 6:49 PM
>
> This Josefa cannot be either. This one died while giving birth on 1778. "No se le administraron los Santos Sacramentos porque murio de parto." The Josefa Lopez de la Serda married to Isidro Martin must have been born around 1660-70 roughly 110+ years earlier (their son Ignacio was born in 1691). I guess it is one more of those coincidences of couples with the same names marrying in different generations. In Nuevo Leon, I have several examples such as this that create much confusion among genealogists.
>
>
> Jaime
Ramirez was a named attached to a lopez family so they may be related.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 21:56:43
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Okay this makes sense, I actually never knew Josepha Lopez de la Cerda,used Ramirez or Rodriguez. I wonder who stated that she was daughterof Nicolas Lopez de la Cerda and Maria de Vielma (Ruiz de Esparza)?
Since a marriage record has never been found for Isidro Martin de Sotomayorand Josepha Lopez de la Cerda, one could not be sure, Isidro's ancestry is correctit has been studied very well, but Josepha is a different story, I have almostnever read an article or essay on these Lopez de la Cerda.
As for Josepha's "parents" I have only found one child, Juan Lopez de la Cerdabaptized in Aguascalientes, 5 Apr 1654. I guess Josepha might have been "added"as a daughter because of the timeline and it does fit but one needs evidence.
Regards,Daniel
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 04:50:12 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> You are correct that it is not the same one you are lookng for. Juan Ignacio martin de sotomayor was in my records all along but I thought you looking for one in a different time period. The correct one, Juan Ignacio Isidro martin de sotomayo is a captain and is the son of Andres martin de sotomayor, paternal grandson of Andres Martin and Maria de Ruelas Sotomayor. He was born in Sierra de los Pinos aguascalientes I do not have Josefa's parents but this is the josefa that sometimes has rodriguez or ramirez attached to de la cerda. That I got right.
> I should probably not respond to messages during the day since I do not have access to all my data until I get home in the evening
> ------Original Message------
> From: Jaime R. Alvarado
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
> Sent: Mar 25, 2010 6:49 PM
>
> This Josefa cannot be either. This one died while giving birth on 1778. "No se le administraron los Santos Sacramentos porque murio de parto." The Josefa Lopez de la Serda married to Isidro Martin must have been born around 1660-70 roughly 110+ years earlier (their son Ignacio was born in 1691). I guess it is one more of those coincidences of couples with the same names marrying in different generations. In Nuevo Leon, I have several examples such as this that create much confusion among genealogists.
>
>
> Jaime
Seguiremos buscando. Ahora me he puesto a revisar todos los entierros en Aguas desde 1690 hasta 1780 para ver si encuentro algo que nos de informacion. Sin embargo, es posible que estos datos se encuentren en Ojuelos (Cienega de Matas), donde muchos de los matrimonios de los hijos tuvieron lugar. Lo que complica la busqueda es que Ojueslos paso a ser asociado con Pinos, Zacatecas, y luego con Jalisco.
The juan jose ignacio sotomayor son of j. J. Ignacio Isidro martin de S and josefa was married to josefa casillas gomez 22Jun1700 in tepa
I believe that the man you are looking for is more likely a grandson of Ignacio and josefa.
------Original Message------
From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 21, 2010 11:06 PM
Hi All, Im looking for the parents of Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayor
who married Petronila de Magana (bapt, 1 Nov 1698) on 30 Nov 1725
in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. I have a suspicion that Ignacio was son of
Isidro Martin de Sotomayor and Josepha Lopez de la Cerda.
Has anyone by chance have the marriage record of Ignacio and Petronilade Magana married in Jalos 30 Nov 1725.
Regards,Daniel
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 05:01:53 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> The juan jose ignacio sotomayor son of j. J. Ignacio Isidro martin de S and josefa was married to josefa casillas gomez 22Jun1700 in tepa
> I believe that the man you are looking for is more likely a grandson of Ignacio and josefa.
> ------Original Message------
> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
> Sent: Mar 21, 2010 11:06 PM
>
> Hi All, Im looking for the parents of Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayor
> who married Petronila de Magana (bapt, 1 Nov 1698) on 30 Nov 1725
> in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. I have a suspicion that Ignacio was son of
> Isidro Martin de Sotomayor and Josepha Lopez de la Cerda.
>
> Regards,
> Daniel
Daniel this has nothing to do with the message on this e-mail. I was looking at ancestry.com and saw that you had my grandparents and my great grandparents listed. They are Francisco Reynoso and Maria del Refugio Pulido. If I picked things up correctly you are related to them. How? I did write a little about them on ancestry.com. Get back to me if you can.
Irene (kelly)
________________________________
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
To: Patty Hoyos
Sent: Fri, March 26, 2010 10:24:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Has anyone by chance have the marriage record of Ignacio and Petronilade Magana married in Jalos 30 Nov 1725.
Regards,Daniel
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 05:01:53 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> The juan jose ignacio sotomayor son of j. J. Ignacio Isidro martin de S and josefa was married to josefa casillas gomez 22Jun1700 in tepa
> I believe that the man you are looking for is more likely a grandson of Ignacio and josefa.
> ------Original Message------
> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
> Sent: Mar 21, 2010 11:06 PM
>
> Hi All, Im looking for the parents of Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayor
> who married Petronila de Magana (bapt, 1 Nov 1698) on 30 Nov 1725
> in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. I have a suspicion that Ignacio was son of
> Isidro Martin de Sotomayor and Josepha Lopez de la Cerda.
>
> Regards,
> Daniel
Well, distantly Im related because just having blood from Los Altos, but right now Im do several projectswhere Im getting and researching desceandants of "X" family and working from 1500s to the late 1800s.I just happened to run into your family using the IGI and familysearch.
Regards,Daniel
I've just ordered this marriage record from the Mormon Church. It should arrive in 2-3 weeks. I'll make a note to myself to share what I find with you.
Thanks Robert, please do share!!! He is my ancestor.
Regards,Daniel
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: robertzermeno@msn.com
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:39:28 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> Daniel,
>
> I've just ordered this marriage record from the Mormon Church. It should arrive in 2-3 weeks. I'll make a note to myself to share what I find with you.
>
> Robert Zermeno
Ignacio Martinez or Martin
Jose de Jesus Barba Ornelas.
Es correcto, pero sin el Ygnacio, es el Cap. Ysidro Martin o Martinez de Sotomayor y es hijo leg. de Andres Martin de Sotomayor o Martin Camacho y de Doña Maria de Isla y Moctesuma. Saludos.
Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Juan jose ignacio martin de sotomayor, son of juan Ignacio Isidro martin Sotomayor and josefa ramirez rodriguez lopez de la cerda was married to josefa casillas Gomez on 22Jun1700. J.J.Ignacio and Josefa had a son named Juan Ignacio M de S married to Ma. De Jesus de la torre ledesma about 1739.
------Original Message------
From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 21, 2010 11:06 PM
Hi All, Im looking for the parents of Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayor
who married Petronila de Magana (bapt, 1 Nov 1698) on 30 Nov 1725
in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. I have a suspicion that Ignacio was son of
Isidro Martin de Sotomayor and Josepha Lopez de la Cerda.
Regards,
Daniel
Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
I thought Jospeha Lopez de la Cerda's parents were Nicolas Lopez de la Cerdaand Maria de Vielma, how does Rodriguez Ramirez fit in this?
Thanks, Daniel
Im looking for the Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayorwho married Petronilade Magana.
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:24:17 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> Juan jose ignacio martin de sotomayor, son of juan Ignacio Isidro martin Sotomayor and josefa ramirez rodriguez lopez de la cerda was married to josefa casillas Gomez on 22Jun1700. J.J.Ignacio and Josefa had a son named Juan Ignacio M de S married to Ma. De Jesus de la torre ledesma about 1739.
> ------Original Message------
> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
> Sent: Mar 21, 2010 11:06 PM
>
> Hi All, Im looking for the parents of Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayor
> who married Petronila de Magana (bapt, 1 Nov 1698) on 30 Nov 1725
> in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. I have a suspicion that Ignacio was son of
> Isidro Martin de Sotomayor and Josepha Lopez de la Cerda.
>
> Regards,
> Daniel
Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
I am positive as to her parents because of her death record
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 18:24:47
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
I thought Jospeha Lopez de la Cerda's parents were Nicolas Lopez de la Cerdaand Maria de Vielma, how does Rodriguez Ramirez fit in this?
Thanks, Daniel
Im looking for the Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayorwho married Petronilade Magana.
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:24:17 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> Juan jose ignacio martin de sotomayor, son of juan Ignacio Isidro martin Sotomayor and josefa ramirez rodriguez lopez de la cerda was married to josefa casillas Gomez on 22Jun1700. J.J.Ignacio and Josefa had a son named Juan Ignacio M de S married to Ma. De Jesus de la torre ledesma about 1739.
> ------Original Message------
> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
> Sent: Mar 21, 2010 11:06 PM
>
> Hi All, Im looking for the parents of Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayor
> who married Petronila de Magana (bapt, 1 Nov 1698) on 30 Nov 1725
> in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. I have a suspicion that Ignacio was son of
> Isidro Martin de Sotomayor and Josepha Lopez de la Cerda.
>
> Regards,
> Daniel
Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
I verified the burial record you indicated, and this individual cannot be the same Josefa Lopez de la Serda because of two main reasons:
1st, this Josefa is identified as Doncella (=virgin), 2. She was 42 years old when she died, thus she was born around 1735. Josefa, wife of Isidro Martin must have been born much earlier.
Here is the transcription of that record:
(Al Margen) Aguascalien[tes]
Maria Josefa Lopes de la Serda Esp[ano]la donsella
En la iglecia parroquia de la Villa de Aguas Calientes en catorse de Abril de mil setecientos y setenta y siete anos: Yo el Br. Dn. Jose Ignacio Delgadillo como Theniente del Don Dr. Vicente Antonio Flores Alatorre, di sepultura eclesiastica a Maria Josefa Lopez de la Serda Espanola Donsella de quarenta y dos anos de edad; orig[ina]ria de esta feligrecia en Puertos, y vecina de esta Villa, hija leg[iti]ma de Juan Manuel Lopez de la Serda y de Maria de Jesus Diaz defunta; se le administraron los Santos [Sa}cramentos de Penitencia, Eucharistia, y Extrema Uncion; No {tenia?) de que testar, y para que conste lo firmamos.
(rubricas) Br. Delgadillos Don Vicente Antonio Flores de la Torre Joseph Ign. Delgadillo.
I guess we need to keep on looking
Jaime Alvarado
Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
I am not sure where de rodriguez ramirez fits in but I sometimes found one or the other attached to the de la cerda last name as if was part of it. Sometimes rodr sometimesb ramirez. Still searching for why.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 18:24:47
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
I thought Jospeha Lopez de la Cerda's parents were Nicolas Lopez de la Cerdaand Maria de Vielma, how does Rodriguez Ramirez fit in this?
Thanks, Daniel
Im looking for the Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayorwho married Petronilade Magana.
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:24:17 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> Juan jose ignacio martin de sotomayor, son of juan Ignacio Isidro martin Sotomayor and josefa ramirez rodriguez lopez de la cerda was married to josefa casillas Gomez on 22Jun1700. J.J.Ignacio and Josefa had a son named Juan Ignacio M de S married to Ma. De Jesus de la torre ledesma about 1739.
> ------Original Message------
> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
> Sent: Mar 21, 2010 11:06 PM
>
> Hi All, Im looking for the parents of Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayor
> who married Petronila de Magana (bapt, 1 Nov 1698) on 30 Nov 1725
> in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. I have a suspicion that Ignacio was son of
> Isidro Martin de Sotomayor and Josepha Lopez de la Cerda.
>
> Regards,
> Daniel
Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Do you know the name of the parents of Joseph (Rodrigues Ramires) Lopez de la Serda?
Jaime
Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
No, I do not. Sorry.
------Original Message------
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 23, 2010 9:46 PM
Do you know the name of the parents of Joseph (Rodrigues Ramires) Lopez de la Serda?
Jaime
Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
I meant to say Josepha, not Joseph.
Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
I just went baCk and did find the info for you her father is juan manuel lopez de la cerda and her mother is maria de jesus diaz de sandi. It says she was born in Rayos
------Original Message------
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 23, 2010 9:46 PM
Do you know the name of the parents of Joseph (Rodrigues Ramires) Lopez de la Serda?
Jaime
Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
She was also borm in 1735 in rayos aguas and buried 14apr1777 in aguas.
------Original Message------
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 24, 2010 11:40 AM
I meant to say Josepha, not Joseph.
Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
I will check my info tomorrow. I may have mixed up to two records but one of the records specifally named her hjusband also as ignacio Martin de sotomayor. And the record was not the same one that you transcribed.
------Original Message------
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 24, 2010 8:54 PM
I verified the burial record you indicated, and this individual cannot be the same Josefa Lopez de la Serda because of two main reasons:
1st, this Josefa is identified as Doncella (=virgin), 2. She was 42 years old when she died, thus she was born around 1735. Josefa, wife of Isidro Martin must have been born much earlier.
Here is the transcription of that record:
(Al Margen) Aguascalien[tes]
Maria Josefa Lopes de la Serda Esp[ano]la donsella
En la iglecia parroquia de la Villa de Aguas Calientes en catorse de Abril de mil setecientos y setenta y siete anos: Yo el Br. Dn. Jose Ignacio Delgadillo como Theniente del Don Dr. Vicente Antonio Flores Alatorre, di sepultura eclesiastica a Maria Josefa Lopez de la Serda Espanola Donsella de quarenta y dos anos de edad; orig[ina]ria de esta feligrecia en Puertos, y vecina de esta Villa, hija leg[iti]ma de Juan Manuel Lopez de la Serda y de Maria de Jesus Diaz defunta; se le administraron los Santos [Sa}cramentos de Penitencia, Eucharistia, y Extrema Uncion; No {tenia?) de que testar, y para que conste lo firmamos.
(rubricas) Br. Delgadillos Don Vicente Antonio Flores de la Torre Joseph Ign. Delgadillo.
I guess we need to keep on looking
Jaime Alvarado
Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 04:16:27
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
I will check my info tomorrow. I may have mixed up to two records but one of the records specifally named her hjusband also as ignacio Martin de sotomayor. And the record was not the same one that you transcribed.
------Original Message------
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 24, 2010 8:54 PM
I verified the burial record you indicated, and this individual cannot be the same Josefa Lopez de la Serda because of two main reasons:
1st, this Josefa is identified as Doncella (=virgin), 2. She was 42 years old when she died, thus she was born around 1735. Josefa, wife of Isidro Martin must have been born much earlier.
Here is the transcription of that record:
(Al Margen) Aguascalien[tes]
Maria Josefa Lopes de la Serda Esp[ano]la donsella
En la iglecia parroquia de la Villa de Aguas Calientes en catorse de Abril de mil setecientos y setenta y siete anos: Yo el Br. Dn. Jose Ignacio Delgadillo como Theniente del Don Dr. Vicente Antonio Flores Alatorre, di sepultura eclesiastica a Maria Josefa Lopez de la Serda Espanola Donsella de quarenta y dos anos de edad; orig[ina]ria de esta feligrecia en Puertos, y vecina de esta Villa, hija leg[iti]ma de Juan Manuel Lopez de la Serda y de Maria de Jesus Diaz defunta; se le administraron los Santos [Sa}cramentos de Penitencia, Eucharistia, y Extrema Uncion; No {tenia?) de que testar, y para que conste lo firmamos.
(rubricas) Br. Delgadillos Don Vicente Antonio Flores de la Torre Joseph Ign. Delgadillo.
I guess we need to keep on looking
Jaime Alvarado
Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
The record I have states that maria josefa de la cerda married to jose ignaciO martinez de sotomayor is the daughter juan manuel de la cerda and ma. De jesus diaz de sandi and it shows a burial date of 6apr1778. Film number 299861.
------Original Message------
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 24, 2010 8:54 PM
I verified the burial record you indicated, and this individual cannot be the same Josefa Lopez de la Serda because of two main reasons:
1st, this Josefa is identified as Doncella (=virgin), 2. She was 42 years old when she died, thus she was born around 1735. Josefa, wife of Isidro Martin must have been born much earlier.
Here is the transcription of that record:
(Al Margen) Aguascalien[tes]
Maria Josefa Lopes de la Serda Esp[ano]la donsella
En la iglecia parroquia de la Villa de Aguas Calientes en catorse de Abril de mil setecientos y setenta y siete anos: Yo el Br. Dn. Jose Ignacio Delgadillo como Theniente del Don Dr. Vicente Antonio Flores Alatorre, di sepultura eclesiastica a Maria Josefa Lopez de la Serda Espanola Donsella de quarenta y dos anos de edad; orig[ina]ria de esta feligrecia en Puertos, y vecina de esta Villa, hija leg[iti]ma de Juan Manuel Lopez de la Serda y de Maria de Jesus Diaz defunta; se le administraron los Santos [Sa}cramentos de Penitencia, Eucharistia, y Extrema Uncion; No {tenia?) de que testar, y para que conste lo firmamos.
(rubricas) Br. Delgadillos Don Vicente Antonio Flores de la Torre Joseph Ign. Delgadillo.
I guess we need to keep on looking
Jaime Alvarado
Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
There is another sister of the same name and that was the other record.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 15:46:21
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
The record I have states that maria josefa de la cerda married to jose ignaciO martinez de sotomayor is the daughter juan manuel de la cerda and ma. De jesus diaz de sandi and it shows a burial date of 6apr1778. Film number 299861.
------Original Message------
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 24, 2010 8:54 PM
I verified the burial record you indicated, and this individual cannot be the same Josefa Lopez de la Serda because of two main reasons:
1st, this Josefa is identified as Doncella (=virgin), 2. She was 42 years old when she died, thus she was born around 1735. Josefa, wife of Isidro Martin must have been born much earlier.
Here is the transcription of that record:
(Al Margen) Aguascalien[tes]
Maria Josefa Lopes de la Serda Esp[ano]la donsella
En la iglecia parroquia de la Villa de Aguas Calientes en catorse de Abril de mil setecientos y setenta y siete anos: Yo el Br. Dn. Jose Ignacio Delgadillo como Theniente del Don Dr. Vicente Antonio Flores Alatorre, di sepultura eclesiastica a Maria Josefa Lopez de la Serda Espanola Donsella de quarenta y dos anos de edad; orig[ina]ria de esta feligrecia en Puertos, y vecina de esta Villa, hija leg[iti]ma de Juan Manuel Lopez de la Serda y de Maria de Jesus Diaz defunta; se le administraron los Santos [Sa}cramentos de Penitencia, Eucharistia, y Extrema Uncion; No {tenia?) de que testar, y para que conste lo firmamos.
(rubricas) Br. Delgadillos Don Vicente Antonio Flores de la Torre Joseph Ign. Delgadillo.
I guess we need to keep on looking
Jaime Alvarado
Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
This Josefa cannot be either. This one died while giving birth on 1778. "No se le administraron los Santos Sacramentos porque murio de parto." The Josefa Lopez de la Serda married to Isidro Martin must have been born around 1660-70 roughly 110+ years earlier (their son Ignacio was born in 1691). I guess it is one more of those coincidences of couples with the same names marrying in different generations. In Nuevo Leon, I have several examples such as this that create much confusion among genealogists.
Jaime
Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
You are correct that it is not the same one you are lookng for. Juan Ignacio martin de sotomayor was in my records all along but I thought you looking for one in a different time period. The correct one, Juan Ignacio Isidro martin de sotomayo is a captain and is the son of Andres martin de sotomayor, paternal grandson of Andres Martin and Maria de Ruelas Sotomayor. He was born in Sierra de los Pinos aguascalientes I do not have Josefa's parents but this is the josefa that sometimes has rodriguez or ramirez attached to de la cerda. That I got right.
I should probably not respond to messages during the day since I do not have access to all my data until I get home in the evening
------Original Message------
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 25, 2010 6:49 PM
This Josefa cannot be either. This one died while giving birth on 1778. "No se le administraron los Santos Sacramentos porque murio de parto." The Josefa Lopez de la Serda married to Isidro Martin must have been born around 1660-70 roughly 110+ years earlier (their son Ignacio was born in 1691). I guess it is one more of those coincidences of couples with the same names marrying in different generations. In Nuevo Leon, I have several examples such as this that create much confusion among genealogists.
Jaime
Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Okay this makes sense, I actually never knew Josepha Lopez de la Cerda,used Ramirez or Rodriguez. I wonder who stated that she was daughterof Nicolas Lopez de la Cerda and Maria de Vielma (Ruiz de Esparza)?
Since a marriage record has never been found for Isidro Martin de Sotomayorand Josepha Lopez de la Cerda, one could not be sure, Isidro's ancestry is correctit has been studied very well, but Josepha is a different story, I have almostnever read an article or essay on these Lopez de la Cerda.
As for Josepha's "parents" I have only found one child, Juan Lopez de la Cerdabaptized in Aguascalientes, 5 Apr 1654. I guess Josepha might have been "added"as a daughter because of the timeline and it does fit but one needs evidence.
Regards,Daniel
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 04:50:12 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> You are correct that it is not the same one you are lookng for. Juan Ignacio martin de sotomayor was in my records all along but I thought you looking for one in a different time period. The correct one, Juan Ignacio Isidro martin de sotomayo is a captain and is the son of Andres martin de sotomayor, paternal grandson of Andres Martin and Maria de Ruelas Sotomayor. He was born in Sierra de los Pinos aguascalientes I do not have Josefa's parents but this is the josefa that sometimes has rodriguez or ramirez attached to de la cerda. That I got right.
> I should probably not respond to messages during the day since I do not have access to all my data until I get home in the evening
> ------Original Message------
> From: Jaime R. Alvarado
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
> Sent: Mar 25, 2010 6:49 PM
>
> This Josefa cannot be either. This one died while giving birth on 1778. "No se le administraron los Santos Sacramentos porque murio de parto." The Josefa Lopez de la Serda married to Isidro Martin must have been born around 1660-70 roughly 110+ years earlier (their son Ignacio was born in 1691). I guess it is one more of those coincidences of couples with the same names marrying in different generations. In Nuevo Leon, I have several examples such as this that create much confusion among genealogists.
>
>
> Jaime
Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
If you find the source stating josefa is the daughter of nicolas and maria please let me know. Thanks
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 21:56:43
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Okay this makes sense, I actually never knew Josepha Lopez de la Cerda,used Ramirez or Rodriguez. I wonder who stated that she was daughterof Nicolas Lopez de la Cerda and Maria de Vielma (Ruiz de Esparza)?
Since a marriage record has never been found for Isidro Martin de Sotomayorand Josepha Lopez de la Cerda, one could not be sure, Isidro's ancestry is correctit has been studied very well, but Josepha is a different story, I have almostnever read an article or essay on these Lopez de la Cerda.
As for Josepha's "parents" I have only found one child, Juan Lopez de la Cerdabaptized in Aguascalientes, 5 Apr 1654. I guess Josepha might have been "added"as a daughter because of the timeline and it does fit but one needs evidence.
Regards,Daniel
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 04:50:12 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> You are correct that it is not the same one you are lookng for. Juan Ignacio martin de sotomayor was in my records all along but I thought you looking for one in a different time period. The correct one, Juan Ignacio Isidro martin de sotomayo is a captain and is the son of Andres martin de sotomayor, paternal grandson of Andres Martin and Maria de Ruelas Sotomayor. He was born in Sierra de los Pinos aguascalientes I do not have Josefa's parents but this is the josefa that sometimes has rodriguez or ramirez attached to de la cerda. That I got right.
> I should probably not respond to messages during the day since I do not have access to all my data until I get home in the evening
> ------Original Message------
> From: Jaime R. Alvarado
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
> Sent: Mar 25, 2010 6:49 PM
>
> This Josefa cannot be either. This one died while giving birth on 1778. "No se le administraron los Santos Sacramentos porque murio de parto." The Josefa Lopez de la Serda married to Isidro Martin must have been born around 1660-70 roughly 110+ years earlier (their son Ignacio was born in 1691). I guess it is one more of those coincidences of couples with the same names marrying in different generations. In Nuevo Leon, I have several examples such as this that create much confusion among genealogists.
>
>
> Jaime
Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Ramirez was a named attached to a lopez family so they may be related.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 21:56:43
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Okay this makes sense, I actually never knew Josepha Lopez de la Cerda,used Ramirez or Rodriguez. I wonder who stated that she was daughterof Nicolas Lopez de la Cerda and Maria de Vielma (Ruiz de Esparza)?
Since a marriage record has never been found for Isidro Martin de Sotomayorand Josepha Lopez de la Cerda, one could not be sure, Isidro's ancestry is correctit has been studied very well, but Josepha is a different story, I have almostnever read an article or essay on these Lopez de la Cerda.
As for Josepha's "parents" I have only found one child, Juan Lopez de la Cerdabaptized in Aguascalientes, 5 Apr 1654. I guess Josepha might have been "added"as a daughter because of the timeline and it does fit but one needs evidence.
Regards,Daniel
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 04:50:12 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> You are correct that it is not the same one you are lookng for. Juan Ignacio martin de sotomayor was in my records all along but I thought you looking for one in a different time period. The correct one, Juan Ignacio Isidro martin de sotomayo is a captain and is the son of Andres martin de sotomayor, paternal grandson of Andres Martin and Maria de Ruelas Sotomayor. He was born in Sierra de los Pinos aguascalientes I do not have Josefa's parents but this is the josefa that sometimes has rodriguez or ramirez attached to de la cerda. That I got right.
> I should probably not respond to messages during the day since I do not have access to all my data until I get home in the evening
> ------Original Message------
> From: Jaime R. Alvarado
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
> Sent: Mar 25, 2010 6:49 PM
>
> This Josefa cannot be either. This one died while giving birth on 1778. "No se le administraron los Santos Sacramentos porque murio de parto." The Josefa Lopez de la Serda married to Isidro Martin must have been born around 1660-70 roughly 110+ years earlier (their son Ignacio was born in 1691). I guess it is one more of those coincidences of couples with the same names marrying in different generations. In Nuevo Leon, I have several examples such as this that create much confusion among genealogists.
>
>
> Jaime
Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Seguiremos buscando. Ahora me he puesto a revisar todos los entierros en Aguas desde 1690 hasta 1780 para ver si encuentro algo que nos de informacion. Sin embargo, es posible que estos datos se encuentren en Ojuelos (Cienega de Matas), donde muchos de los matrimonios de los hijos tuvieron lugar. Lo que complica la busqueda es que Ojueslos paso a ser asociado con Pinos, Zacatecas, y luego con Jalisco.
Jaime
Andres Martin Y Maria De Las Ruelas
Ricci,
Do you know when Andres and Maria were married i also descend from them too>?
Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
The juan jose ignacio sotomayor son of j. J. Ignacio Isidro martin de S and josefa was married to josefa casillas gomez 22Jun1700 in tepa
I believe that the man you are looking for is more likely a grandson of Ignacio and josefa.
------Original Message------
From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Sent: Mar 21, 2010 11:06 PM
Hi All, Im looking for the parents of Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayor
who married Petronila de Magana (bapt, 1 Nov 1698) on 30 Nov 1725
in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. I have a suspicion that Ignacio was son of
Isidro Martin de Sotomayor and Josepha Lopez de la Cerda.
Regards,
Daniel
Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Has anyone by chance have the marriage record of Ignacio and Petronilade Magana married in Jalos 30 Nov 1725.
Regards,Daniel
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 05:01:53 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> The juan jose ignacio sotomayor son of j. J. Ignacio Isidro martin de S and josefa was married to josefa casillas gomez 22Jun1700 in tepa
> I believe that the man you are looking for is more likely a grandson of Ignacio and josefa.
> ------Original Message------
> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
> Sent: Mar 21, 2010 11:06 PM
>
> Hi All, Im looking for the parents of Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayor
> who married Petronila de Magana (bapt, 1 Nov 1698) on 30 Nov 1725
> in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. I have a suspicion that Ignacio was son of
> Isidro Martin de Sotomayor and Josepha Lopez de la Cerda.
>
> Regards,
> Daniel
Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Daniel this has nothing to do with the message on this e-mail. I was looking at ancestry.com and saw that you had my grandparents and my great grandparents listed. They are Francisco Reynoso and Maria del Refugio Pulido. If I picked things up correctly you are related to them. How? I did write a little about them on ancestry.com. Get back to me if you can.
Irene (kelly)
________________________________
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
To: Patty Hoyos
Sent: Fri, March 26, 2010 10:24:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Has anyone by chance have the marriage record of Ignacio and Petronilade Magana married in Jalos 30 Nov 1725.
Regards,Daniel
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 05:01:53 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> The juan jose ignacio sotomayor son of j. J. Ignacio Isidro martin de S and josefa was married to josefa casillas gomez 22Jun1700 in tepa
> I believe that the man you are looking for is more likely a grandson of Ignacio and josefa.
> ------Original Message------
> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
> Sent: Mar 21, 2010 11:06 PM
>
> Hi All, Im looking for the parents of Ignacio Martinez de Sotomayor
> who married Petronila de Magana (bapt, 1 Nov 1698) on 30 Nov 1725
> in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. I have a suspicion that Ignacio was son of
> Isidro Martin de Sotomayor and Josepha Lopez de la Cerda.
>
> Regards,
> Daniel
Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Well, distantly Im related because just having blood from Los Altos, but right now Im do several projectswhere Im getting and researching desceandants of "X" family and working from 1500s to the late 1800s.I just happened to run into your family using the IGI and familysearch.
Regards,Daniel
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Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Daniel,
I've just ordered this marriage record from the Mormon Church. It should arrive in 2-3 weeks. I'll make a note to myself to share what I find with you.
Robert Zermeno
Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
Thanks Robert, please do share!!! He is my ancestor.
Regards,Daniel
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: robertzermeno@msn.com
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:39:28 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ignacio Martinez or Martin de Sotomayor
>
> Daniel,
>
> I've just ordered this marriage record from the Mormon Church. It should arrive in 2-3 weeks. I'll make a note to myself to share what I find with you.
>
> Robert Zermeno