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5. Re: "padres no conocidos" (Pat Corbera)

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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 18:29:53 +0000 (UTC)
From: Pat Corbera
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] "padres no conocidos"
Message-ID:
<176888525.1505174.1330108193566.JavaMail.root@sz0116a.emeryville.ca.mai…>

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Victoriano,

?

Do you know if?married couples were given a duplicate copy of their marriage?record?

?

Then when baptizing their children was it required to show proof of their marriage, in order for the child to be registered as "hijo legitima" ?

?

Pat Silva Corbera

Tracy CA

Hello Pat,

It was nice meeting you at the last Nueva Galicia meeting in January. I'm not sure about the parents showing proof of their marriage at the time of their offspring's baptisms. It may be possible that in small towns such as the ones my parents grew up in, it was common knowledge. I recall my father telling me that the gentleman (his father's cousin) who recorded Church records knew everybody's business. He could easily recite individuals family history. I imagine he and his predecessors' were the same. I also remember my parents telling me that the child had to be baptized where ever they lived. Exceptions were made if the godparents lived somewhere else.
I have seen that priests or employees of the Church would go back and look for Baptism records to ensure that the betrothed had been Baptized before entering into a Catholic marriage. In these same baptism records, I have seen notations of their marriage date, place and spouse (ALSO if it was a 2nd or 3rd marriage).
I highly doubt in olden times that they would have been given copies of their marriage records. I was confirmed in Mexico at the ripe age of 16, and was never given a copy of my Confirmation, and that wasn't in olden times. :) I do recall that family members would often go to the Church to get copies of marriages, baptisms for matters of immigration, etc., so they weren't given copies at the time of the sacrament.

Irma Gomez Gtz de Lucero
Northern California

Hi Irma,

 

It was nice meeting you too...wish that we had more time to share research stories.

 

Your story about marriages and people in the various villages, brought smiles to my face, for I recall my parents relating pretty much the same stories about their family and friends in Madeira, Portugal and even here in the USA.

 

Though my mom was only 5 when she came to the USA she love talking about the "ladies," that gossiped and about the ones that worked for the "priests."  They knew everything that was going on... of course I'm sure these stories she related to me were stories that she had heard from her mother,.

 

I'm finding that many of the customs that I'm learning about with Tino's heritage are very similar to my Portuguese roots.

 

My own maternal great-grandfather was "filho dos pais incognito."

 

In one of Tino's lines, one child was "hija natural," the second child "hijo legitimo," and the third child again was "hijo natural,"  all the other children in this family were legitimos...

 

One bapt record for a hijo natural reflected the name of the paternal grandfather being the husband of the maternal grandmother...The priest had left out the names of their respective spouses. Had me going, until I figured out what the  Priest had done.

 

The concelho in Madeira had no record of my father's birth.  This was found out  when he applied for a passport to come to the USA.  His parents, grandparents and great grandparents along with neighbors had to attest to his birth information... it even states now in his birth record that the "Priest forgot to record his birth... that was in 1891...

 

Well, Dear Irma,  as Helyn and Alicia will confirm I'm a "chatter box,"  as evident in this lengthy posting and by my "chatter," when I rode with them all the way from Tracy to Sacramento and back.  LOL.

 

I'm looking forward to meeting you again at the Nueva Galicia Conference in Sacarmento in May...

 

Thank you for your input...

 

Pat Silva Corbera  

 
 

Hello Pat and Irma

My experience is more recent. We have 3 children born in Jalisco during the 1980's. When we went to register them we had to first go to the Civil Registry and we did have to show proof of marriage with our marriage certificate in hand or our children would be registered as "Ilegitimo" in a separate book. We were told that we had 5 years from birth to register the baby; but with the registration you also get the coupon book that is required to vaccinate the baby.

Once you have that certificate you can take it to the church, also along with your marriage certificate, and register for a baptism.

You mentioned the problems your father had--my husband had the same issue when they were applying for immigration. My husband is a twin--it seems they entered his brother in the church records, but not my husband; even though they were baptised at the same time! Until recently it seems that a lot of people didn't bother with the Civil Record because they believed--"The record from God is the one the counts!"

Deedra Corona

Hi Deedra,

 

Thank you for sharing your interesting experiences. 

 

I would have thought that the same practice would have been in use during earlier times... some proof in hand by the parents to show they were married in order for their children be registered as "legitima." 

 

My husband's parents and his grandparents on both side are all now deceased... it's questions like these that I wish I had thought of when they were still alive.

 

This should be a lesson learned to ask questions now, while you may still have access to living parents, grandparents and older relatives.

 

We are at the mercy that the various documents now available for viewing are correct, but may often contain errors.

 

Thank you

Pat Silva Corbera

Tracy CA

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
----- Original Message -----
From: zapvive1@msn.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 12:22:48 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Proof of Marriage

Hello Pat and Irma

My experience is more recent. We have 3 children born in Jalisco during the 1980's.  When we went to register them we had to first go to the Civil Registry and we did have to show proof of marriage with our marriage certificate in hand or our children would be registered as "Ilegitimo" in a separate book. We were told that we had 5 years from birth to register the baby; but with the registration you also get the coupon book that is required to vaccinate the baby.

Once you have that certificate you can take it to the church, also along with your marriage certificate, and register for a baptism.

You mentioned the problems your father had--my husband had the same issue when they were applying for immigration.  My husband is a twin--it seems they entered his brother in the church records, but not my husband; even though they were baptised at the same time!  Until recently it seems that a lot of people didn't bother with the Civil Record because they believed--"The record from God is the one the counts!"

Deedra Corona  

Genealogy Research