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Does anyone have any further information about the above-captioned couple? They had at least six documented children, including Augustina (ca. 1683), Rosa María (bau. 21 Feb 1696), Petrona (nac. 10 Oct 1698), Francisca Efigenia (bau. 19 Jul 1704), Joseph Manuel (bau. 23 Oct 1706), and María Beatrís (bau. 15 Dec 1708). They were both living as of 22 Jun 1711, when Augustina married Antonio Sermeño in Jalostotitlán. These birth and baptism dates are about at the date limit of the images of the online registers at FamilySearch.org.

Also, I am trying to determine the time sequence of place names at that time. Rosa María and Petrona show "Nuestra Señora de San Juan" as their place of birth, while the others show "del Saus, Nuestra Señora de la Asunción". Both are in Jalos, and I think it it likely that they are the same place; but the historian in me would like to know for sure, and I haven't yet been able to find anything definitive.

Best wishes,
Lawrence Bouett
Lafayette, California

Lawrence,

I descend from this couple on my maternal side. I had originally suspected that Andres Magana could have been from Zamora, Michoacan. I had seen lots of migration from Zamora and to the eastern part of Los Altos. My father's family Mendez de Torres were one the principal families of the Obispado de Michoacan, and they intermarried extensively with families who came from Santa Maria de los Lagos, like Gonzalez de Hermosillo, Munoz de Xerez, Alcala y Mendoza, Hernandez Gamino, etc. These families arrived in Zamora around the mid 18th century.

There was an Andres Magana in Zamora, but never had the time to follow that link. Perhaps you may have the luck.

Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino

Daniel,

I was poking around FamilySearch, which lists an Andrés Magaña baptised in San Miguel, Tlazazalca, Michoacán, 20 Jun 1660, parents Andrés Magaña and Beatrís de Bargos; there is also a Roque Jacinto Magaña, baptised 30 Aug 1655, in the same place and to the same parents. The FHL Film is 643759 in both cases; however, I have reviewed this film from 1653 through 1662 and I have not been able to locate either baptism.

What makes this otherwise 'shot in the dark' interesting is that one of the padrinos at the baptism of Petrona Magaña Ramires, daughter of Andrés Magaña and Ana Gonçales, on 01 Nov 1698, is Roque Magaña.

Notice that the mother's name is given as Ana Gonçales, not Ana Ramires or Ana Ramires de Hermosillo; but the mother of Rosa María, baptised 21 Feb 1696 is Ana Ramires; the mother's name for the other five children is given variously as Gonsales (1704) or Ramires (1706, 1708, and 1712). Of the six baptisms, the first two do not give a location and the last four give 'el Saus' as the location.

I think it is reasonable to conclude that all of these births are to the same two parents, namely Andrés Magaña and Ana Ramires de Hermosillo, although I cannot explain the Ramires/Gonçales/Gonsales differences.

The point here is the reference to Roque Magaña in the 1698 baptism, which, if he is confirmed as the brother of Andrés Magaña, as I suspect he is, would place 'our' Andrés in Tlazazalca and name his parents.

I am especially interested in Andrés Magaña and Ana Ramires de Hermosillo, because the line I am researching is directly descended, not only from this couple, but also from Lázaro Martín del Campo and Catarina Ramires de Hermosillo, who is the sister of Ana.

Best wishes,

Lawrence Bouett

Further on this post: I have located both of the baptisms mentioned above, namely, that of Andrés Magaña on 20 Jun 1660 and also that of 'Roque Jasinto' on 30 Aug 1655. The first is on image 71 of the film (FHL 643759), and the second is on image 58 of the same film.

The difference, however, is that the second baptism is not of one hijo, Roque Jasinto, but rather of twins, Roque and Jasinto (por ser mellisos)! So the Roque Magaña who is the padrino in 1698 is, in fact, the brother of Andrés.

The film is not in strict chronological order; I am in the process of indexing the dates so I will not make the same mistake again (of claiming that the record is not on the film).

Saludos,
Lawrence Bouett
Orinda, CA

Since I somehow managed to click the 'Post comment' button twice, which resulted in duplicate messages being sent, I'm taking this opportunity to 'delete' the duplicate by adding that the line I'm working on is descended from not two, but three of the children of Andrés Magaña and Ana Ramires de Hermosillo; the third line of descent is from María Francisca, who married Sebastián Reynoso y Renteria, ca. 1693 in Jalos.

Best wishes,

Lawrence Bouett

Lawrence,

Nice discovery, I have noticed over the years all these hints, here and there tie everything up. We would still need to confirm this. It is nice to know that were are related through Andres Magana. Remember Gonzalez de Hermosillo and Ramirez de Hermosillo are almost one in the same. Some members took on different names for whatever the reason may be.

Best wishes,
Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino

Alfonso Reynoso-Rábago

Hi, Lawrence.

1) The term "Nuestra Señora de San Juan" refers to the present city of San Juan de los Lagos which for a long time (16th, 17th and part of 18th centuries, colonial times) belonged to the jurisdiction of the parish of Jalostotitlán (Jalos).

2) The Sauz, refers to "El Sauz de los Ramirez" (note that a person who you are investigating takes precisely the surname Ramirez). This site is currently located in San Miguel el Alto. In colonial times it belonged to the jurisdiction of the parish of Jalostotitlán (see map on http://mexico.pueblosamerica.com/i/sauz-de-los-ramirez/).

Best wishes,
Alfonso Reynoso-Rábago
Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, Mexico

El Sauz will have been an hacienda or ranch. Del Sauz is short for "de El
Sauz" There were many places called El Sauz or Los Sauces which means
willows. Over time the ranches and haciendas would be divided among the
children so it is hard to say which Sauz the record was referring to.
Someone else should be able to clarify.

Nuestra Señora de San Juan is a church in what is now called San Juan de
los Lagos whose name change was due to a large number of people from Santa
María de los Lagos, now named Lagos de Moreno, populating the city.

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bas%C3%ADlica_de_Nuestra_Se%C3%B1ora_de_Sa…
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Juan_de_los_Lagos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Juan_de_los_Lagos
http://www.inafed.gob.mx/work/templates/enciclo/jalisco/mpios/14073a.htm

The church in Jalos at the time was Nuestra Señora de la Asunción.
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalostotitl%C3%A1n
http://www.e-local.gob.mx/work/templates/enciclo/jalisco/mpios/14046a.h…

Regards
Armando

On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 2:12 PM, wrote:

> Does anyone have any further information about the above-captioned couple?
> They had at least six documented children, including Augustina (ca. 1683),
> Rosa María (bau. 21 Feb 1696), Petrona (nac. 10 Oct 1698), Francisca
> Efigenia (bau. 19 Jul 1704), Joseph Manuel (bau. 23 Oct 1706), and María
> Beatrís (bau. 15 Dec 1708). They were both living as of 22 Jun 1711, when
> Augustina married Antonio Sermeño in Jalostotitlán. These birth and
> baptism dates are about at the date limit of the images of the online
> registers at FamilySearch.org.
>
> Also, I am trying to determine the time sequence of place names at that
> time. Rosa María and Petrona show "Nuestra Señora de San Juan" as their
> place of birth, while the others show "del Saus, Nuestra Señora de la
> Asunción". Both are in Jalos, and I think it it likely that they are the
> same place; but the historian in me would like to know for sure, and I
> haven't yet been able to find anything definitive.
>
> Best wishes,
> Lawrence Bouett
> Lafayette, California

I don't know if this will help you any as I was working on one of the Martin del Campos Lines and the father of the brides is "joseph Ramires de Hermosillo" Here the two brothers married the two sisters.
familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18447-9381-14?cc=1874591&wc=12506204
Nuestra Señora de la Asuncion, Matrimonios 1748-1768, image 155.

Regards
Lance Gonzalez

Genealogy Research