Nuestros Ranchos Site

Hi Rosalva,

Using the information you provided last November, I was able to find Ismael's and Soledad's babtismal certificte in Tlachichila. Ismael was babtized on Nov. 5, 1911 and was born in El Ojo de Agua ( my great grandmother mentioned being from El Ojo de Agua) while Soledad was babtized June 4, 1916 and she was born in Ventanillas. Check out the following links for these babtismal certificates:

Ismael :

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15245-1970-10?cc=1804458&wc=…

Soledad link:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15245-4859-28?cc=1804458&wc=…

In the process of following this genealogy, I've determined that we are related. I had a pretty good idea that we were based on the Duran, Ruiz, and Olmos last names listed on your profile. I can take your Duran genealogy back another 4 generations past Cruz Duran (Jose Cruz Duran Chavez). We are probably related multiple times over, but this is the first link I have found.

I sent you a message via this forum with my email address. Feel free to contact me via email. I'd be happy to share my tree with you.

Saludos,
Juan Aguayo

Hola Paco, este Jose Ana es hijo de Don Miguel Antonio Gutierres Gonzales y de Maria Guadalupe Romo Parada?

On the "plus" side is that he was born about 1856. That's far back enough that there ARE some records available. I assume you know a little bit about him/his family.

The most important thing is where was he born (or your best guess). If he was born in Mexico, then try Family Search.org https://familysearch.org/. Try seacch using each Mexican State. i.e. Juan Perez (Peres) Jalisco, Mexico using a larger year span like 1836 - 1876. Keep repeating until you use all Mexican States.
You should be alert that many Mexican individuals have 2 or more first,middle names/ Saint's name and 2 surnames (father and mother). Family Search,org let's you include his wife and parents in the search. Use whatever info you have; if all you have is a wife's or mother.s first name, then use that in your search.

I've encountered several name variations of the same individual. l.e. Juan Perez/Juan Peres/ Jose Juan Perez/ often the individual uses his mother's maiden name. If you know it, then also look for that i.e. if Garcia is mother's surname, also try Juan Perez Garcia or EVEN Juan Garcia.

The easier way is to interview his relatives. If they don't know much, then ask if they know where Juan was married, etc.

Welcome to Genealogy 101.

Jose Carlos de Leon

Roberto,

Check the following to see if you can find some more clues.

Dispensa of Gaspar de Lomelín. Look at the witnesses also.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18377-18842-17?cc=1874591&wc…

Marriage of the son of Gaspar de Lomelín.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15185-45517-18?cc=1410092&wc…

As Enrique suggested, always look for the Información Matrimonial records, even for descendants since sometimes they will have witnesses which provide more clues.

Armando

Hi,
I'm not related with the Nochistlán families but have you tried reserching on the Información Matrimonial records? It seems that the year of their marriage has already registers on the Información Matrimonial book. Start lookig 2 months before the marriage or so, because I've seen that sometimes the process for getting married began at that time or even one month before or one month after. If you find their information record you'll find the their parents' names and maybe more details.

Enrique Agraz

Hi George

I too have wondered where to go from here. I have come to the conclusion, that I will contribute where I best can, by going through records which are comprehensible to me. To that end, I have just last night begun going through marriages from Mexico City from the 1570's on the chance that the elusive Petronila will show up as a padrina, and then I will have located her at a specific place and time, and linked her to a specific social network. I would be happy if someone wanted to go to the same film, find the last image from the 1500s (image 282), and work backwards....the link to the last image of the 1500's is here:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-9748-17804-19?cc=1615259&wc=…

On this film, there is a gap from 1589 to 1629, therefore I have no immediate plans to look beyond image 282.

The source of the image is:

"México, Distrito Federal, registros parroquiales y diocesanos, 1514-1970," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-9748-17804-19?cc=1615259&wc=… : accessed 15 Jan 2014), Asunción Sagrario Metropolitano (Centro) > Matrimonios de españoles 1575-1589, 1629-1634, 1629-1634, 1621-1626, 1629-1630, 1629-1646 > image 282 of 1051.

I hope that someone will be interested in the longer documents in colonial Spanish -for example those in PARES or else other documents from Mexico from the 1500's which I dont get much out of. Steven Francisco Hernández López and Carlos Peredo have already made some very interesting finds regarding Diego Arias de Sotelo and his sons Cristobal Valderrama Sotelo and Diego Portugal Manuel. If they keep going, they will surely dig up more information on this lineage... :)

I still hope that someone will contact Don Guillermo's Brother regarding the manuscript - with the sources for his information about Petronila - which he was working on when he passed away.

Regards
Denise

welcome.. you did not say who the lines are that you are researching or where in Mexico they are from.
Linda in Boulder City, Nv.

On Sunday, January 12, 2014 10:19 PM, "pnpcastillo@centurylink.net" wrote:

Hello everyone:

This is my first post onto the forum. Both my husband and I are looking forward to being a part of the group. I have been researching my husband's family for an exciting,interesting and very challenging 8 years. We are looking forward to reading and connecting with other enthusiasts.

Welcome

pnpcastillo@centurylink.net wrote:

Hello everyone:

This is my first post onto the forum. Both my husband and I are
looking forward to being a part of the group. I have been researching
my husband's family for an exciting,interesting and very challenging 8
years. We are looking forward to reading and connecting with other
enthusiasts.

Hi Jaimie,

I Also am researching the Aguallo family for my wife (Michelle Martinez Williams) who is the 2nd great grand daughter of Magdaleno Martinez who married Maria Eduvviges de Aguallo. This would make her the 5th great grand daughter of Diego de Aguallo and Francisca Veserra of Nochistlan.

I believe there is a connection for Diego de Aguallo to Diego de Aguallo and Ysabel de Espitia and that they may be his parents.

The connection is in the marriage record for Candido Aguallo to Anna Gertrudis Ballexo (* see listing below). The Padrinos are Macario Aguallo and Maria Monica Duran. The Macario Aguallo listed is Lucio Macario de Aguallo son of Diego de Aguallo and Ysabel de Espitia and may be the uncle to Candido de Aguallo.

I'm not sure about all this but the time period is right that Diego could be a son of Diego de Aguallo and Ysabel de Espitia and there seems to be a family connection.

Let me know what you think.

Thank you,
Johnny Williams

1st Marriage: Matrimonios 1736-1762 image 440
Name: Don Candido Aguallo of Mexticacan
Spouse's Name: Da Anna Getrudis Ballexo of Jalostotitlan
Event Date: 18 Dec 1753
Event Place: Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico
Father's Name: Dn Diego Aguallo (dec)
Mother's Name: Da Francisca Baserra
Spouse's Father's Name: Lucas Ballejo
Spouse's Mother's Name: Thomaza Herrera
* PP: Macario Aguallo & Ma Monica Duran
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M60625-7
GS Film number: 226726
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15185-41838-16?cc=1804458&wc…

Below is what I have on Diego de Aguallo and Ysabel de Espita's family:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Descendants of Diego De Aguallo

First Generation

1. Diego De Aguallo was born before 1679 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.

Matrimonios 1691-1736 image 107
Name: Diego De Aguallo (no parents listed)
Spouse's Name: Ysabel De Aspitia (no parents listed)
Event Date: 12 Jan 1699
Event Place: Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M60625-6
GS Film number: 226725
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15187-51822-39?cc=1804458&wc…

Marriage info skips from Jun 1698 to Jan 1701

Diego married Ysabel De Espitia daughter of Macario de Espitia and Simona de Silva on 12 Jan 1699 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico. Ysabel was christened on 31 May 1681 in El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico. She died before 1733.

need better source for parents

Name: Ysabel Espitia Silva
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 31 May 1681
Christening Place: EL SAGRARIO,AGUASCALIENTES,AGUASCALIENTES,MEXICO
Father's Name: Macario De Espitia
Mother's Name: Simona De Silva
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60476-2
GS Film number: 299422

Diego and Ysabel had the following children:

2 M i. Joseph Vital De Aguallo was christened on 17 May 1700 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.

Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1688-1718 image 249
Name: Joseph Vital De Aguallo espl.
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 17 May 1700
Christening Place: Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico
Father's Name: Diego De Aguallo
Mother's Name: Isabel De Aspitia
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04274-6
GS Film number: 226647
Reference ID: v 3 p 23
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15280-5898-61?cc=1804458&wc=…

3 F ii. Maria De Aguaio was christened on 16 Jun 1702 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .

Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1688-1718 image 296
Name: Maria De Aguaio
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 16 Jun 1702
Christening Place: Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico
Father's Name: Diego De Aguaio
Mother's Name: Isavel De Espiho(Espitio>
Padrinos: Joseph de Xaurg? & Manuela de Espitia
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04274-6

GS Film number: 226647
Reference ID: v 4 p 15
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15280-5805-4?cc=1804458&wc=M…

+ 4 M iii. Lucio Macario de Aguallo was born on 3 May 1708.

+ 5 M iv. Antonio Mergil de Aguayo .

6 F v. Maria Xaviela de Aguaio was christened on 8 Mar 1712 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.

Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1688-1718 image 456
Name: Maria Xaviera De Los Dolores De Aguaio
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 13 Mar 1712
Christening Place: Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico
Race: Native American
Father's Name: Diego De Aguaio
Mother's Name: Ysabel De Espilia
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04274-6
GS Film number: 226647
Reference ID: v 4 p 143
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15280-5495-10?cc=1804458&wc=…

Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1688-1718 image 458
Name: Maria Xaviera De Los Dolores De Aguaio
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 08 Mar 1712
Christening Place: Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico
Father's Name: Diego De Aguaio
Mother's Name: Ysabel De Espitia
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04274-6
Reference ID: v 4 p 145
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15280-5578-32?cc=1804458&wc=…

Second Generation

4. Lucio Macario de Aguallo (Diego De) was born on 3 May 1708 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico. He was christened on 10 May 1708 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.

Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1688-1718 image 379
Name: Lucio Macario De Aguayo of Noch
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 10 May 1708
Christening Place: Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico
Birth Date: 03 May 1708
Father's Name: Diego De Aguayo
Mother's Name: Ysavel De Espitia
Padrinos: Macario de Espitia & Simona de ?Seluno
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04274-6
GS Film number: 226647
Reference ID: v 4 p 82
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15280-5574-16?cc=1804458&wc=…

(1st Marriage)
Name: Machario De Aguallo
Spouse's Name: Thereza De Luna
Event Date: 04 May 1729
Event Place: San Luis,Colotlan,Jalisco,Mexico

Father's Name: Diego De Aguallo
Mother's Name: Ysabel De Espitia
Spouse's Father's Name: Dgo. De Luna
Spouse's Mother's Name: Thomasa Barela
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M60465-1
GS Film number: 443781

(2nd Marriage)
Matrimonios 1736-1762 image 278
Name: Dn. Macario De Aguayo espl. of Nochistlan, widow of Da. Thereza de Luna
Spouse's Name: Maria Monica Duran
Event Date: 22 Dec 1746
Event Place: Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico
Father's Name:
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name: Phelipe Duran
Spouse's Mother's Name: Maria de Cuelar
PP: Dn. Antonio Mergil de Aguayo & Maria Ynes (espl.)
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M60625-7
GS Film number: 226726
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15185-42794-49?cc=1804458&wc…

Lucio married (1) Thereza De Luna daughter of Dgo. De Luna and Thomasa Barela on 4 May 1729 in San Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico.

Lucio married (2) Maria Monica Duran Cueuas daughter of Phelipe Duran and Maria de Cuebas on 22 Dec 1746 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico. Maria was born in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico. She was christened on 10 May 1724 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.

Name: Maria Monica Duran Cueuas
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 10 May 1724
Christening Place: NOCHISTLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Father's Name: Felipe Duran
Mother's Name: Maria De Cueuas
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: K60071-3
GS Film number: 226648

Lucio and Maria had the following children:

7 M i. Joseph Maria Florentino Aguayo Duran was christened on 4 Jul 1748 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.

Name: Joseph Maria Florentino Aguayo Duran
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 04 Jul 1748
Christening Place: NOCHISTLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Father's Name: Macario De Aguayo
Mother's Name: Maria Monica Duran
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60071-4
GS Film number: 226649

8 F ii. Jua. Franca. Aguaio Moscoso was christened on 21 Mar 1751 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.

9 F iii. Franca. Sesaria Aguallo Duran was christened on 8 Mar 1753 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.

Name: Franca. Sesaria Aguallo Duran
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 08 Mar 1753
Christening Place: NOCHISTLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO

Father's Name: Macario Aguallo
Mother's Name: Monica Duran
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60071-5
GS Film number: 226650

10 M iv. Jph. Leandro Aguayo Duran was christened on 5 Mar 1759 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.

Name: Jph. Leandro Aguayo Duran
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 05 Mar 1759
Christening Place: Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico
Father's Name: Macario De Aguayo
Mother's Name: Monica Duran
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60071-5
GS Film number: 226650

11 F v. Ma. Agustina De Aguayo was christened on 20 Sep 1761 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.

5. Antonio Mergil de Aguayo (Diego De) was born in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.

Matrimonios 1691-1736 image 404&405
Name: Antto. De Aguayo
Spouse's Name: Ma. Yanes
Event Date: 21 Feb 1733
Event Place: Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico
Father's Name: Diego de Aguayo
Mother's Name: Ysabel de spitia (dec)
Spouse's Father's Name: Antonio Yanes
Spouse's Mother's Name: Juana de Cardenas
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M60625-6
GS Film number: 226725
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15187-52292-43?cc=1804458&wc…

Antonio married Maria Yanes daughter of Antonio Yanes and Juana de Cardenas on 21 Feb 1733 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.

They had the following children:

12 M i. Diego De La Cruz Aguayo Yanes was christened on 6 Jun 1747 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.

Name: Diego De La Cruz Aguayo Yanes
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 06 Jun 1747
Christening Place: NOCHISTLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Father's Name: Antonio De Aguayo
Mother's Name: Maria Yanes
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60071-4
GS Film number: 226649

+ 13 F ii. Maria Petra De Aguayo .

Third Generation

13. Maria Petra De Aguayo (Antonio Mergil de Aguayo, Diego De).

Maria married Justo Felis De Torres son of Juan De Torres and Petra de Aguirre on 14 Jan 1759 in

Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .

Matrimonios 1736-1762 image 556
Name: Justo Felis De Torres of Los Belascos
Spouse's Name: Maria Petra De Aguayo
Event Date: 14 Jan 1759
Event Place: Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M60625-7
GS Film number: 226726
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15185-41617-99?cc=1804458&wc…

Justo and Maria had the following children:

14 F i. Maria Gregoria De Los Dolores Torres Aguayo was christened on 27 Nov 1759 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .

Name: Maria Gregoria De Los Dolores Torres Aguayo
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 27 Nov 1759
Christening Place: NOCHISTLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Father's Name: Justo Felis De Torres
Mother's Name: Maria Petra De Aguayo
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60071-5
GS Film number: 226650

15 M ii. Andres Florentino Torres was christened on 29 Oct 1761 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .

Name: Andres Florentino Torres
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 29 Oct 1761
Christening Place: Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico
Father's Name: Justo De Torres
Mother's Name: Ma. Petra
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60071-5
GS Film number: 226650

16 F iii. Maria Manuela Margarita de Thorres was christened on 19 Jun 1763 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .

Name: Maria Manuela Margarita De Thorres
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 19 Jun 1763
Christening Place: Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico
Father's Name: Justo De Thorres
Mother's Name: Maria Petra De Agallo
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C02521-3
GS Film number: 226651

17 M iv. Felisiano Cornelio De Thorres was christened on 22 Sep 1765 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .

Name: Felisiano Cornelio De Thorres
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 22 Sep 1765
Christening Place: Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico
Father's Name: Justo De Thorres
Mother's Name: Maria Petra De Aguayo
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C02521-3
GS Film number: 226651

18 M v. Joseph Ysidoro de Thorres was christened on 11 Dec 1767 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .

Name: Joseph Ysidoro De Thorres
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 11 Dec 1767
Christening Place: Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico
Father's Name: Justo De Thorres
Mother's Name: Maria Petra De Aguaia
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C02521-3
GS Film number: 226651

19 F vi. Juana Josepha Chrestina De Thorres was christened on 1 Aug 1769 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .

Name: Juana Josepha Chrestina De Thorres
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 01 Aug 1769
Christening Place: Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico
Father's Name: Justo De Thorres
Mother's Name: Maria Petra De Aguallo
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C02521-3
GS Film number: 226651

20 F vii. Maria Micaela Thorres Aguaio was christened on 8 Oct 1770 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .

Name: Maria Micaela Thorres Aguaio
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 08 Oct 1770
Christening Place: NOCHISTLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Father's Name: Justo De Thorres
Mother's Name: Maria Petra De Aguaio
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60071-7
GS Film number: 226652

21 M viii. Joseph De Los Reies Thorres Aguaio was christened on 14 Jan 1772 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .

Name: Joseph De Los Reies Thorres Aguaio
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 14 Jan 1772
Christening Place: NOCHISTLAN, ZACATECAS, MEXICO
Father's Name: Justo De Thorres
Mother's Name: Maria Petra De Aguaio
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60071-7
GS Film number: 226652

22 F ix. Maria Estanislao Thorres Aguallo was christened on 22 Nov 1773 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .

Name: Maria Estanislao Thorres Aguallo
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 22 Nov 1773
Christening Place: NOCHISTLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Father's Name: Justo De Thorres
Mother's Name: Maria Petra De Aguallo
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60071-7
GS Film number: 226652

23 F x. Maria Paulina Thorres Aguallo was christened on 11 Jun 1775 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .

Name: Maria Paulina Thorres Aguallo
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 11 Jun 1775
Christening Place: NOCHISTLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Father's Name: Justo De Thorres
Mother's Name: Petra De Aguallo
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60071-7
GS Film number: 226652

24 M xi. Jose Luis Thorres Aguallo was christened on 30 Aug 1778 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .

Name: Jose Luis Thorres Aguallo
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 30 Aug 1778
Christening Place: NOCHISTLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Birth Date: Aug 1778
Father's Name: Justo De Thorres
Mother's Name: Petra De Aguallo
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60071-8
GS Film number: 226653

LOS GONZÁLEZ DE HERMOSILLO

Los antecedentes históricos de la familia González-Hermosillo se remontan a finales del Siglo XVI en la Nueva Galicia, pues vivieron y tuvieron propiedades y mercedes de tierras en Lagos, San Juan de los Lagos y Teocaltiche. Sin embargo, los González Díaz de León propietarios de Preciado, Cañaditas y Presa Nueva, entre otros ranchos y haciendas en Pinos Zacatecas y Ojuelos, Jalisco, tienen un origen histórico muy bien definido genealógicamente.

Descienden directamente de don Diego Ildefonso González de Hermosillo y Alderete, que nació en Teocaltiche hacia 1680. Él estudió unos cuantos años en el seminario Conciliar de Guadalajara sin llegar a tomar los hábitos, no obstante adquirió una esmerada educación, superior al común de la población. Vivió su juventud y se casó con doña Lorenza Manuela de Cabrera en el Real de Asientos a principios de Siglo XVIII. Los Cabrera venían de pueblo de Cuquío replicando lo que hicieron innumerables familias alteñas que buscaban la prosperidad económica generada por el auge minero de aquel Real. Diego pasó a vivir con su familia a la hacienda de Tecuán, perteneciente al Mayorazgo de Ciénega de Mata, formando parte de los criollos ilustrados que sabiendo leer, escribir y contar y constituyeron el aparato administrativo y de las mayordomías.

Por varias generaciones estuvieron allí y emparentaron con los Carrillo, los Díaz de León y los Dávila que tenían "criaderos" y rentaban pastos. Hay abundante información documental sobre el particular. Pasaron luego a vivir a la Hacienda de Los Ojuelos como "dependientes" y allí emparentaron con los Paz de Burciaga, familia que provenía del lejano Real de Mazapil y a la sazón vivía en el real de Pinos. El primer Vicente González Hermosillo, bisnieto de Diego Ildefonso no fue Administrador pero estuvo al servicio de los Rincón Gallardo y le ocurrió lo que a los jefes de muchas familias que se movían de una hacienda a otra y cifraban su prosperidad en los cargos, empleos y prebendas de la estructura administrativa del Mayorazgo como los buenos salarios, los derechos a sembrar a medias con la hacienda o pastar ganados propios y beneficiar aguas, leñas y montes. Posteriormente se les encuentra en las hacienda de Buenavista y Encinillas, pues allí nacieron varios de sus hijos.

La tradición oral que recibimos decía que uno de los Vicentes (hubo tres en sucesión y al último de ellos, Avelina González Díaz de León le decía "mi Tito", y de quien existe una buena fotografía en Daguerrotipo), se había hecho cargo de una hacienda durante la guerra de independencia y que por sus servicios y lealtades, cuando el Mayorazgo comenzó "las ventas", hacia 1839, le ofrecieron la adquisición de los abruptos terrenos de "Preciado", colindando con la hacienda de El Carro y El Lobo, al pie de la Sierra del Astillero, colindando también con La Montesa y mirando al Llano de Tecuán. Esto ocurrió una década antes de que la familia Díaz de León, compuesta también por empleados y renteros de pastos de las haciendas de los Rincón Gallardo, comenzaran a comprar los terrenos en La Montesa.

Lo que está muy bien documentado en archivos de familia (que incluyen planos y testamentos originales), es que hacia 1848 los González ya eran propietarios y cuya extensión de terrenos contenían varias pequeñas estancias agrícolas y ganaderas, así como un tramo de del antiguo camino real de tierra-adentro, entre los terrenos de Cañaditas y el cerro de Mostrador. De hecho, se recordaba que Preciado fue un Mesón y "parada de bueyes" del antiquísimo camino "de las carretas grandes", conocido más recientemente como "La Ruta de la Plata". El apellido González-Hermosillo se recortó a partir de primer tercio del Siglo XIX, quedando únicamente, González.

Hi Norberto
I would like to take a look at the info on the marriage to see if i can help in any way. It would be good if you posted the names and date of the marriage, the full citation, and the link to the image.

Regards
Denise
Fastrup

Hello Scott,

I don't doubt that the document that provides the ancestry of Petronila de
Moctezuma was found by don Guillermo Tovar de Teresa but as I have said
before we want to know what kind of document it is and when the book will
be published if they still plan to publish it and so on. That really is the
only document that we need at this moment. The others do not help in
proving the link between Petronila and Moctezuma II.

ITEM (2) The link that you provided
http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas/servlets/Control_servlet?accion=4&tx…
that the session has expired when clicked on. Apart from that the
link doesn't show on the Nuestros Ranchos site. Those type of links don't
show up.

Therefore, the advanced search has to be done at
http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas/servlets/Control_servlet?accion=100 but
you don't have to select anything before pasting MP-ESCUDOS,211 into
the Signatura:
field. All that has to be done after that is to click search then click on
the result from that search.

The same can be done without spaces with PATRONATO,245,R.5 and
MP-ESCUDOS,212

IITEM (4) I provided a link to the dispensa and the pertinent info in a
different post. I'll post it again since this email started a different
thread.

At the bottom left of image 319 of the dispensa that starts on 316 at
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18377-19894-49?cc=1874591&wc…

En el pueblo de Nochistlan en dicho dia mes y año Ante su

Merced dicho señor Vicario pareció Matheo Gonzalez de

Robalacava español vecino de este dicho pueblo y declaro

que Bartolome Rodriguez Bajo viudo de Teresa Ponce y Doña

Tomasa Rosa de Ulloa hija legitima de Pedro de Ulloa

Marquez que al presente tratando contraer matrimonio

son parientes en cuarto grado de afinidad

por cópula licita porque la dicha Teresa Ponce fue

hija de Nicolas Ponce nieta de Doña Juana de Siordia

bisnieta de María Gabay y Teresa nieta de Martín
Navarro y de Doña Petronila de Montezuma.........

Then at the top right of image 319

Martín Navarro y Doña Petronila de Montezuma de los

cuales tambien esta en el mismo cuarto grado la

dicha Doña Tomasa Roza de Ulloa porque es hija de Pedro

de Ulloa Marquez nieta de María Ruiz de Esparza bisnieta

de Francisca Gabai y tercera nieta de los dichos

Martin Navarro y Doña Petronila Montesuma ?

coz y padres lexitimos de las dichas María Gabay y Fran

cisca Gabay de quienes se procrearon estas dos descen

dentias y que esto lo save este declarante con total serti

dumbre como deudo que es de todos los dichos y que los

conocio ocular mente a todos menos a los dichos Mar

tin Navarro y Doña Petonila de Montezuma = que

todo lo declara para descargo de su conciencia y que

para mayor seguridad lo jura por Dios nuestro

Señor y una señal de cruz sinque a ello le muestra

otra cosa que a ? a su alma y a la verdad y

que lo que lleva declarado lo es so cargo del juramento

que echo tiene….....dijo ser de edad de zetenta y ocho años

y lo firmo con su mersed dho señor bicario doi fe

entre Renglones = en que siendole leido este su dho cer

tifico =

D Luis Calvillo Matheo gon de
Jpseph gonz

Rrobalcaba
Rovalacava

Saludos,
Armando

On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Scott Stockwell wrote:

> The parentage of the Gabadi sisters continues to be a subject of much
> discussion. I do not have any answers, but I do have much of the
> documentation that is discussed on the Research List.
>
> ITEM (1) of Armando's post: I have no knowledge of this document.
>
> ITEM (2) of Armando's post: This document, alleged to be from 1574, can be
> found at PARES <
> http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas/servlets/Control_servlet?accion=4&tx…;.
> If you want to find it the long way, go to PARES .
> Select "Busqueda Avanzada" on the button bar. Go down to FILTRO POR ARCHIVO
> and select "Archivo General de Indias" from the pull-down menu. A second
> pull-down menu will appear beneath the first. Select "Mapas y Planos" from
> the second pull-down menu. Now go to the section just below, FILTRO POR
> SIGNATURA, and enter "MP-ESCUDOS,211" in the text field. If that doesn't
> work, click on the Seleccionar button. Once you get to the next page, go to
> the bottom of the list and click on the tiny red down-arrow to scroll the
> list. Click the "+" button next to MP-ESCUDOS. A list of document numbers
> will appear below MP-ESCUDOS. Use the red arrow again to scroll down until
> you see 211 and click on
> 211. That will take you back to the search page. Click on the Buscar
> button at the bottom of the page. That will bring up a page with the
> document listed. You can get document information by clicking on the title.
> You can view the document by clicking on the little camera icon in the DIG.
> column. MP-ESCUDOS,212 is another genealogy, principally for Isabel
> Moctezuma. MP-ESCUDO,197 is a general chart dated 1817 depicting
> Moctezuma's descendants. Mariana is listed, but none of her descendants are
> listed. MP-ESCUDO,211 would be a natural continuation of this chart.
>
> ITEM (3) of Armando's post: Mariana Moctezuma, child of Moctezuma II and
> Acatlan, was married to Cristobal Valderrama. Mariana and Cristobal had one
> child, Leonor. Leonor married Diego Arias Sotelo. Diego was exiled to what
> is now Algeria for his role in the Avila-Cortes Conspiracy (his brother was
> executed). According the "Moctezuma's Children" by Donald E. Chipman
> (2005), Leonor Valderrama and Diego Arias Sotelo had 3 children: Fernando
> (the only one to have children), Ana (a nun), and Cristobal. If Petronila
> Moctezuma is a descendant of Moctezuma II and Acatlan, Her parents would
> have to be Leonor Valderrama Moctezuma and Diego Arias Sotelo. According to
> Chipman, the children of Leonor were constantly in court trying to win
> control of their grandmother's encomiendo. I suppose that there are reasons
> that Petronila might not have been mentioned in these proceedings (Leonor
> willed her estate to her 3 children equally), but it seems odd. The
> children also
> fought among themselves for control of the encomiendo. Ana, a nun, gave
> control of her third to Fernando. Cristobal's widow fought for his third,
> plus half of Ana's. Having gotten full control of the encomiendo,
> Fernando's children sold it, so that it passed out of the family completely.
>
> ITEM (4) of Armando's post: The dispensation referred to is widely
> available in the ether and can be found at the FamilySearch.org site (Film
> Number 168605 - FamilySearch.org: Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records,
> 1590-1995, Guadalajara, Diócesis de Guadalajara, Matrimonios 1700-1705,
> Image 316 of 625). One other document, the 1677 will of Juan Siordia,
> daughter of Maria Gabadi and Pedro Fernandez de Vaulus, gives Maria's name
> as Maria Gabai Moctezuma. The will is available from the Digital Archives
> of Aguascalientes . Click the
> Login button. Enter sigue.publica as the User Name and publica as the
> Password. Click the Login button. In the index that comes up, right-click
> (two-finger-click on Mac) on the entry SSG-ARCHIVO-HISTORICO - ACERVOS
> COLONIALES SIGLOS XVII A XIX to get a pop-up menu. Select New Query from
> the menu. In the page that comes up next, enter JUANA DE SIORDIA in the
> text field for
> CONTRATANTES. Click the Submit button and you will be taken to the first
> page of the will.
>
> To me, the question of Petronila's ancestry is still up in the air. I'm
> with the camp that says that unless I have hard documentation on the
> subject, I remain skeptical.
>
> Scott Stockwell

Hola Diego,

Disculpa la tardanza (7 meses!!!!) de esta respuesta. Tal vez ya has
encontrado los datos que buscabas sobre “Aro y Ávila”. Hasta hora e
podido ponerme masa o memos al corriente de todos los “posts” de Nuestros
Ranchos.

Me da gusto saber que tenemos los mismos ancestros. Tengo la misma
información que diste empezando con Thomas de Haro y María Ávila, con solo
unos datos pequeños de diferencia y alguna información adicional:

1- Antonio Julián Haro se caso con Rita Margarita Serrano en
Tlaltenango de Sánchez Román el 10 de enero de 1787.

2- Según mis datos, la madre de Rita Margarita Serrano es María
Candelaria Ramírez no Castillo.

3- Además de María Lucia Haro, Antonio Julián Haro y Rita Margarita
Serrano tuvieron los siguientes hijos: María de la Cruz, María Rita, María
Eusebia de Jesús, Juana Vitor Modesta, Juan Joseph de la Trinidad, y José
Cirildo de Jesús.

4- Según mis datos, los abuelos de José María Serrano Hermosillo son
(línea paterna) Antonio Serrano y María Rita Gómez Ávila no María González.
Abuelos maternos son José Alejo Morcillo no García y María Concepción
García.

5- Tengo más información sobre la línea de Paula Rosalía Hermosillo
(Morcillo) García.

Como ya a pasado tanto tiempo, asumo que ya tienes estos datos. Si no es
así, déjame saber y yo te doy los datos con más detalle. Si encuentras
algun dato adicional, te pido que me lo compartas.

Gracias!

Alicia

Chicago, IL

--Alicia Castaneda-Rodriguez

Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
I also have not received mail from nuestros ranchos in quite a while. Don't know what's happening.

Hello Anita,
I'm also fairly new at this too; but we learn by doing and helping. I looked at the marriage and it does say that Blas Esteban is Mestizo (right after his name--"mest"). To me it also looks like the mother's name may be Becerra--although it only has one R in the document. I tried with all of the combinations I could figure and unfortunately I had no luck either. Remember that the Franco family also went by Franco de Paredes and sometimes Paredes.
Good luck,
Deedra Corona

Thank you for posting this information. Consanguinity, and the dispensations for it, have always been confusing to me. However, after reading the Canon Law on consanguinity and affinity, I can only quote Harry Belafonte: "It was clear as mud, but it covered the ground, and the confusion make the world go 'round".

I remain as confused as I ever was.

Linda
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 13:06:08 -0800 (PST)
> From: ray777syl@verizon.net
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] consanguinity & affinity
> Message-ID:
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Very important concepts to know when searching catholic parish records,from the Facebook page Evidence Explained:
> Consanguinity and Affinity:
>
> We see the words often in religious records of the past and occasionally in civil ones. The concept of consanguinity--a blood relationship--is simple enough; but modern thinking often leads us astray where affinity is concerned. In civil records especially, we see references to "my brother" and other stated kinships that are hard to support by documentary evidence.
>
> A deeper look at the historical meaning of the term can help our analyses. We borrow here from the online CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01178a.htm).
>
> "Affinity (in Canon Law)
> "A relationship arising from the carnal intercourse of a man and a woman, sufficient for the generation of children, whereby the man becomes related to the woman's blood-relatives and the woman to the man's. I... Today affinity does not beget affinity. Therefore the relatives of the man do not become relatives of the woman's relatives, neither do those of the woman become relatives of the man's relatives. ...
>
> "The motive for the impediment of affinity is akin to, though not as strong as, that of consanguinity; there arises ... a nearness and natural intimacy with the blood-relatives of the other side. The degrees of affinity are determined by the same rule as the degree of blood-relationship."
>
> The essay offers considerably more insight. It's well worth reading.
> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01178a.htm
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>