Dr.mt

Tierras Y Aguas Collection

Published by meef98367 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Arturo,

Thanks for posting the samples from the Indice (#0269867).

Just from browsing the scans you put up, I found several of the surnames in my husband's ancestry.

So, how do you know which subsequent film to order, since the indice only has a number and name for the fundacion [?], and the name of the agraciado [?], but no date of the land grant.

Comentarios

Comentario

Emilie:

The index is arranges by "Book" with each book having a few years of land recordations. The FHL films do not seem to follow exactly the books since it appears that a book did not fit on a single film and so there are multiple films per book. The books in question that I uploaded are Libros 1 and 2.

Libro 1 is for 1584 through 1594, which I cannot remember if it is on 0277579, but I suspect it is.

Libro 2 is for 1694 through 1696 which I know corresponds to Film 0277580 because I read the beginning of that film and it matched the entries in the index for Libro 2.

Libro 3 I would imagine would be on Film 0277581 or 0277582, etc.
The entries within each book are clearly marked with a sequential number (matching the number in the index) and a short summary in the margin.

Brother's DNA

Published by romero89 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Yes, you are correct. In trying to simplify my explanation, I
neglected to add that information. Thank you for adding it. If a
male submits a DNA sample it can be tested for both his Y-DNA and

Comentarios

Comentario

Linda,

Thank you for adding to this very interesting subject.

I have a situation with my parents being 1st cousins, 1 generation
removed.

My paternal grandfather is my maternal grandfather's uncle, they descend
from a common male ancestor.

Again if my thinking is correct... my brother's Y-DNA that he received from
our father, would be the same Y-DNA as any of my mom's male siblings.

To further add to the "male Y-DNA," puzzle of our family is the fact that
my mom has brothers from the two marriages of her father. The male Y-DNA of
the offspring of my maternal grandfather's two marriages would be the
same, but the mtDNA of the offspring would be different.

All this may prove, like that old song, that my brother may be his "Own
Grandpa." ;-)).

Pat Silva Corbera

----- Original Message -----
From: "Linda R Romero"
To:
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 2:53 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Brother's DNA

> Yes, you are correct. In trying to simplify my explanation, I
> neglected to add that information. Thank you for adding it. If a
> male submits a DNA sample it can be tested for both his Y-DNA and
> mtDNA, giving the Haplogroups for both his mother and father.
>
> Linda
>
>
> On Mar 10, 2007, at 4:35 PM, research-
> request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:
>
>> It's my understanding that both female and male offspring carry
>> their mother's mtDNA. It's only the female offspring that will
>> continue to pass the mtDNA down a direct line, to both her female
>> and male offspring. If one's brother's mtDNA is tested it would
>> match that of his female sibling's mtDNA.
>>
>> The mtDNA in males can be tested...
>> The YDNA that males received from their father is not passed to
>> females, but continues to be passed from male offspring to their
>> male offspring in a direct line.
>>
>> Pat Silva Corbera
>
> romero89@earthlink.net
>
>> Researching: Romero, Hallstead/Halstead, Davis, Hamm, Capwell,
>> Buell, Beltz, Chandler, Burgess, Hitchcock, de la Torre, Hotchkiss,
>> Moore, Nichol/Nichols, Phelps, Scott, Sherwood, Trowbridge, Barba,
>> Brewster, Fisher, Foulkes
>>
>>
>
>

David Serna

Published by mendezdetorres –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Does anyone know David's email or how I can contact David? Thanks.

Carta abierta a Don Mariano González Leal

Published by Bill Figueroa –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Estimado Sr. González:

Disculpe que me dirija a Ud. por este medio, pero tengo entendido que Ud. pertenece al grupo Nuestros Ranchos y no he podido comunicarme con Ud. por otros medios. Traté de eviarle este mismo mensaje hace algunos meses, pero probablemente las direcciones que me dieron no estén actualizadas.

DNA results for surname Castanon

Published by longsjourney –
Foros
Genealogy Research

The results for our surname Castanon DNA came back today. They are R1B1, considered European.. What a mix we are when our ancestors are from Mexico! My maternal MTDNA is Native American, Haplogroup A, my mothers Gutierrez line done through her brother came back Eurasian, Haplogroup N and now a European ancestor.. Doing the genealogy also have given me 3 lines of Mulato ancestors in the mid 1600's in Jalisco, Zacatecas and Michoacan.. I am everything Mexico has to offer! Just thought I'd share the results.

Comentarios

Comentario

Linda,

What's most impressed me is the joy that you convery from each find, some European, some Native American and some African. You did not go into your DNA research with a fixed agenda, you are open to whatever the analysis proves out.

That's what genealogy is all about, not our pre-conceived expectations. It takes an open mind to see and accept all the possibilities. After all we cannot change all that came before us, we would not be who we are now without all those in our lineage who contributed to our genetic makeup.

I congratulate you for your findings but especially for your openness and acceptance of your ancestors.

Alicia,
San Jose, Calif

----- Original Message ----
From: longsjourney
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2007 4:42:55 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA results for surname Castanon

The results for our surname Castanon DNA came back today. They are R1B1, considered European.. What a mix we are when our ancestors are from Mexico! My maternal MTDNA is Native American, Haplogroup A, my mothers Gutierrez line done through her brother came back Eurasian, Haplogroup N and now a European ancestor.. Doing the genealogy also have given me 3 lines of Mulato ancestors in the mid 1600's in Jalisco, Zacatecas and Michoacan.. I am everything Mexico has to offer! Just thought I'd share the results.

Linda Castanon-Long

Comentario

Thank you Alicia, the only thing I'm missing is a Jewish line but I haven't given up yet! One day Daniel Mendez will do his DNA and since his ancestor was brother to my gr-grandmother Maria Mendez, just maybe, the Mendez line could be Jewish from Spain?? I'm told Mendez is one of the converso names.. time will tell.
Linda

Alicia Carrillo wrote:
Linda,

What's most impressed me is the joy that you convery from each find, some European, some Native American and some African. You did not go into your DNA research with a fixed agenda, you are open to whatever the analysis proves out.

That's what genealogy is all about, not our pre-conceived expectations. It takes an open mind to see and accept all the possibilities. After all we cannot change all that came before us, we would not be who we are now without all those in our lineage who contributed to our genetic makeup.

I congratulate you for your findings but especially for your openness and acceptance of your ancestors.

Alicia,
San Jose, Calif

----- Original Message ----
From: longsjourney
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2007 4:42:55 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA results for surname Castanon

The results for our surname Castanon DNA came back today. They are R1B1, considered European.. What a mix we are when our ancestors are from Mexico! My maternal MTDNA is Native American, Haplogroup A, my mothers Gutierrez line done through her brother came back Eurasian, Haplogroup N and now a European ancestor.. Doing the genealogy also have given me 3 lines of Mulato ancestors in the mid 1600's in Jalisco, Zacatecas and Michoacan.. I am everything Mexico has to offer! Just thought I'd share the results.

Linda Castanon-Long

Comentario

For those that don't understand DNA, here is an explanation.

Your R1b1 Haplogroup in your father's Castanon line means that his
father, and his father's father, etc. ancestry traces directly back
to your European ancestors. Your father's direct line is European.

Your mother's direct line is Native American Haplogroup A which means
that her mother, her mother's mother, her mother's mother's mother
etc can be traced back to a Native American woman. Your mtDNA will
be A, the same as your mother's haplogroup. Since only the women
pass on the mtDNA, it traces your direct female line.

Your mother's father, however is Haplogroup N, Eurasian. That means
that his father, and his father's father, etc. are all Haplogroup N
and can be traced back to your Eurasian ancestor who first came to
Mexico.

Even though you are a mixture of all these people and Haplogroups,
your mtDNA will only show your mother's line, your brother will only
show your father's line. Aunts, uncles, and cousins will show their
Haplogroups from their same sex parents.

All in all, your results show you are a true Mexican. A beautiful
mixture of all the peoples of Mexico. How lucky you are to know this.

Most DNA testers are of European descent. There are not enough
people of Spanish and Mexican descent in the databanks. I look
forward to the day when those of us with Mexican ancestry of every
Haplogroup can trace our ancestry through DNA.

DNA testing for my Mexican ancestry (my father's line) has opened up
a whole new avenue of research for me because of an unexpected result
of J2b1b (J2e2). There are surprises out there if we want to look.

If anyone is interested in learning more about their Mexican Heritage
and DNA, I recommend Gary Felix's website, The Genealogy of Mexico at
http://members.tripod.com/~GaryFelix/index63.htm

Thank you for sharing your results. I hope it encourages others with
a Mexican heritage to test their DNA.

Linda Romero

On Mar 9, 2007, at 6:24 PM, research-
request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:

> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 16:42:55 -0800 (PST)
> From: longsjourney
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA results for surname Castanon
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Message-ID:
>
> &tid=&17170f265eb26e878850c9177f1d5780@www.nuestrosranchos.org>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
>
> The results for our surname Castanon DNA came back today. They are
> R1B1, considered European.. What a mix we are when our ancestors
> are from Mexico! My maternal MTDNA is Native American, Haplogroup
> A, my mothers Gutierrez line done through her brother came back
> Eurasian, Haplogroup N and now a European ancestor.. Doing the
> genealogy also have given me 3 lines of Mulato ancestors in the mid
> 1600's in Jalisco, Zacatecas and Michoacan.. I am everything Mexico
> has to offer! Just thought I'd share the results.
>
> Linda Castanon-Long
>

romero89@earthlink.net

> Researching: Romero, Hallstead/Halstead, Davis, Hamm, Capwell,
> Buell, Beltz, Chandler, Burgess, Hitchcock, de la Torre, Hotchkiss,
> Moore, Nichol/Nichols, Phelps, Scott, Sherwood, Trowbridge, Barba,
> Brewster, Fisher, Foulkes
>
>

Comentario

Linda,

Please correct me if my thinking is incorrect...

You posted the following : " Even though you are a mixture of all these people and Haplogroups, your mtDNA will only show your mother's line, your brother will only
show your father's line."

It's my understanding that both female and male offspring carry their mother's mtDNA. It's only the female offspring that will continue to pass the mtDNA down a direct line, to both her female and male offspring. If one's brother's mtDNA is tested it would match that of his female sibling's mtDNA.

The mtDNA in males can be tested...
The YDNA that males received from their father is not passed to females, but continues to be passed from male offspring to their male offspring in a direct line.

Pat Silva Corbera

Linda R Romero wrote:
For those that don't understand DNA, here is an explanation.

Your R1b1 Haplogroup in your father's Castanon line means that his
father, and his father's father, etc. ancestry traces directly back
to your European ancestors. Your father's direct line is European.

Your mother's direct line is Native American Haplogroup A which means
that her mother, her mother's mother, her mother's mother's mother
etc can be traced back to a Native American woman. Your mtDNA will
be A, the same as your mother's haplogroup. Since only the women
pass on the mtDNA, it traces your direct female line.

Your mother's father, however is Haplogroup N, Eurasian. That means
that his father, and his father's father, etc. are all Haplogroup N
and can be traced back to your Eurasian ancestor who first came to
Mexico.

Even though you are a mixture of all these people and Haplogroups,
your mtDNA will only show your mother's line, your brother will only
show your father's line. Aunts, uncles, and cousins will show their
Haplogroups from their same sex parents.

All in all, your results show you are a true Mexican. A beautiful
mixture of all the peoples of Mexico. How lucky you are to know this.

Most DNA testers are of European descent. There are not enough
people of Spanish and Mexican descent in the databanks. I look
forward to the day when those of us with Mexican ancestry of every
Haplogroup can trace our ancestry through DNA.

DNA testing for my Mexican ancestry (my father's line) has opened up
a whole new avenue of research for me because of an unexpected result
of J2b1b (J2e2). There are surprises out there if we want to look.

If anyone is interested in learning more about their Mexican Heritage
and DNA, I recommend Gary Felix's website, The Genealogy of Mexico at
http://members.tripod.com/~GaryFelix/index63.htm

Thank you for sharing your results. I hope it encourages others with
a Mexican heritage to test their DNA.

Linda Romero

On Mar 9, 2007, at 6:24 PM, research-
request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:

> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 16:42:55 -0800 (PST)
> From: longsjourney
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA results for surname Castanon
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Message-ID:
>
>
> &tid=&17170f265eb26e878850c9177f1d5780@www.nuestrosranchos.org>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
>
> The results for our surname Castanon DNA came back today. They are
> R1B1, considered European.. What a mix we are when our ancestors
> are from Mexico! My maternal MTDNA is Native American, Haplogroup
> A, my mothers Gutierrez line done through her brother came back
> Eurasian, Haplogroup N and now a European ancestor.. Doing the
> genealogy also have given me 3 lines of Mulato ancestors in the mid
> 1600's in Jalisco, Zacatecas and Michoacan.. I am everything Mexico
> has to offer! Just thought I'd share the results.
>
> Linda Castanon-Long
>

romero89@earthlink.net

> Researching: Romero, Hallstead/Halstead, Davis, Hamm, Capwell,
> Buell, Beltz, Chandler, Burgess, Hitchcock, de la Torre, Hotchkiss,
> Moore, Nichol/Nichols, Phelps, Scott, Sherwood, Trowbridge, Barba,
> Brewster, Fisher, Foulkes
>
>

announce Digest, Vol 14, Issue 3

Published by drortiz –
Foros
Announcements and Events

> For all of you, who have showed an interest in the > class. Is there any
> particular day of the week, that
> you would prefer having the class?

My schedule is pretty flexible except for the first Thursday. However,

research Digest, Vol 13, Issue 14

Published by campezina –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Here are some Alvarado people from Zacatecas who ended moving to
Durango and Coahuila. Most of them came to work in the area of la
Laguna betwen Coahuila and Durango.

Many came from Zacatecas to work in the mining area in San Juan de

Manuel Elijio Arispe Esparza de Saltillo, Coahuilla, Mexico

Published by phyls esparza –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Mis ancestros eran Domingo Saldana Garcia Esparza married (caso con)Gertrudes de los Santos Arispe en Saltillo, Sagrario Metropolitano, Coahuilla, Mexico

El hijo...their son was Manuel Elijio Arispe Esparza de Saltillo, Coahuilla, Mexico caso con

Comentarios

Comentario

Phyls,

the research@nuestrosranchos.org list is limited to research for
Jalisco, Zacatecas, and/or Aguascalientes. Actually the whole group is.
On the general@nuestrosranchos.org list there is a little leeway to ask
questions about areas outside our area of research, but it might be
better to start your introduction with your connection to our area of
research and then later ask and occasional question about outside areas.
Your genealogy was uploaded to your folder:

First Log in and go to the files --> "Members Genealogies" --> "Your
last name, first name" area of the group or specifically at
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15813 Please send in your
introduction (or re-introduction) to research@nuestrosranchos.org and
give this specific URL: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15813

thanks,

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

phyls esparza wrote:
> Mis ancestros eran Domingo Saldana Garcia Esparza married (caso con)Gertrudes de los Santos Arispe en Saltillo, Sagrario Metropolitano, Coahuilla, Mexico
>
> El hijo...their son was Manuel Elijio Arispe Esparza de Saltillo, Coahuilla, Mexico caso con
> Maria Rita Felipa Quintanilla Guajardo and they lived in Lampazos de Naranjo, Nuevo Leon Mexico.
>
> Does anyone have more information?
>
> Phyls Esparza, Texas
>
>
>

Comentario

Phyls,

IS this the family you are researching:

Results for: Mexico
Father: Domingo Esparza, Mother: Gertrudis Arispe
Exact Spelling: Off
[refine search]
Prepare selected records for download

International Genealogical Index / Mexico - 4
Select records to download - (50 maximum)
1. MA. ANTTA. ESPARSA ARISPE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 04 FEB 1729 Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo, Coahuila, Mexico

2. ANTTO. FRANCO. XAVR. ESPARZA ARISPE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 11 DEC 1732 Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo, Coahuila, Mexico

3. JOSEPH JUACHIN ESPARSA ARISPE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 24 FEB 1727 Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo, Coahuila, Mexico

4. JOSEPH MANUEL LUIS ELIGIO ESPARZA ARISPE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 13 APR 1730 Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo, Coahuila, Mexico

The information above was found at www.familysearch.or using the IGI.

Source film: 0605066 batch_no: K602472 Dates: 1724 - 1743

I also found this on film no: 0605065 batch: C602471 Dates: 1684 - 1724

MARIA GERTRUDIS ARISPE SANTOS
Female

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 24 JUL 1712 Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo, Coahuila, Mexico

Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: SANTIAGO DE ARISPE Family
Mother: JOANA DE LOS SANTOS

Other children of Santiago Arispe and Juana de Los Santos:

2. MARIA GERTRUDIS ARISPE SANTOS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 24 JUL 1712 Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo, Coahuila, Mexico

3. BLAS JOSEPH ARISPE SANTOS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 14 FEB 1720 Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo, Coahuila, Mexico

4. JUANA LUCIA ARISPE SANCTOS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 23 DEC 1720 Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo, Coahuila, Mexico

5. MIGUEL ARISPE SANTOS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 06 OCT 1710 Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo, Coahuila, Mexico

6. JUO. YGNO. ARISPE STOS. - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 13 SEP 1716 Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo, Coahuila, Mexico

7. FELISIANA QUITERIA ARISPE SANTOS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 29 JUN 1715 Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo, Coahuila, Mexico

8. JUAN JOSEPH ARISPE LOSSTN. - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 08 MAR 1722 Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo, Coahuila, Mexico

There were no Esparza family members on the above film that were indexed. But just because there weren't in the index does not mean they are not there. I have often found the you are lucky if 50 % of a film was actually indexed.

The marriage records from 1684 to 1740 were not indexed at all. The marriage films need to be extracted.

Hope this helps.

--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from Joseph Puentes : --------------

> Phyls,
>
> the research@nuestrosranchos.org list is limited to research for
> Jalisco, Zacatecas, and/or Aguascalientes. Actually the whole group is.
> On the general@nuestrosranchos.org list there is a little leeway to ask
> questions about areas outside our area of research, but it might be
> better to start your introduction with your connection to our area of
> research and then later ask and occasional question about outside areas.
> Your genealogy was uploaded to your folder:
>
> First Log in and go to the files --> "Members Genealogies" --> "Your
> last name, first name" area of the group or specifically at
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15813 Please send in your
> introduction (or re-introduction) to research@nuestrosranchos.org and
> give this specific URL: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15813
>
> thanks,
>
> joseph
>
> ===================
>
> Joseph Puentes
> http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
> http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)
>
>
>
> phyls esparza wrote:
> > Mis ancestros eran Domingo Saldana Garcia Esparza married (caso con)Gertrudes
> de los Santos Arispe en Saltillo, Sagrario Metropolitano, Coahuilla, Mexico
> >
> > El hijo...their son was Manuel Elijio Arispe Esparza de Saltillo, Coahuilla,
> Mexico caso con
> > Maria Rita Felipa Quintanilla Guajardo and they lived in Lampazos de Naranjo,
> Nuevo Leon Mexico.
> >
> > Does anyone have more information?
> >
> > Phyls Esparza, Texas
> >
> >
> >
>

Comentario

Hi Esther, Yes this was indeed data that I was searching for, thank you so
much for sending it to me.......Phyls

----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Manuel Elijio Arispe Esparza de
Saltillo,Coahuilla, Mexico

> Phyls,
>
> IS this the family you are researching:
>
> Results for: Mexico
> Father: Domingo Esparza, Mother: Gertrudis Arispe
> Exact Spelling: Off
> [refine search]
> Prepare selected records for download
>
> International Genealogical Index / Mexico - 4
> Select records to download - (50 maximum)
> 1. MA. ANTTA. ESPARSA ARISPE - International Genealogical Index
> Gender: Female Christening: 04 FEB 1729 Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo,
> Coahuila, Mexico
>
> 2. ANTTO. FRANCO. XAVR. ESPARZA ARISPE - International Genealogical Index
> Gender: Male Christening: 11 DEC 1732 Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo,
> Coahuila, Mexico
>
> 3. JOSEPH JUACHIN ESPARSA ARISPE - International Genealogical Index
> Gender: Male Christening: 24 FEB 1727 Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo,
> Coahuila, Mexico
>
> 4. JOSEPH MANUEL LUIS ELIGIO ESPARZA ARISPE - International Genealogical
> Index
> Gender: Male Christening: 13 APR 1730 Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo,
> Coahuila, Mexico
>
>
>
>
>
> The information above was found at www.familysearch.or using the IGI.
>
> Source film: 0605066 batch_no: K602472 Dates: 1724 - 1743
>
> I also found this on film no: 0605065 batch: C602471 Dates: 1684 -
> 1724
>
>
>
>
>
>
> MARIA GERTRUDIS ARISPE SANTOS
> Female
>
>
>
> Event(s):
> Birth:
> Christening: 24 JUL 1712 Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo, Coahuila,
> Mexico
>
> Death:
> Burial:
>
>
>
> Parents:
> Father: SANTIAGO DE ARISPE Family
> Mother: JOANA DE LOS SANTOS
>
>
>
> Other children of Santiago Arispe and Juana de Los Santos:
>
>
>
> 2. MARIA GERTRUDIS ARISPE SANTOS - International Genealogical Index
> Gender: Female Christening: 24 JUL 1712 Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo,
> Coahuila, Mexico
>
> 3. BLAS JOSEPH ARISPE SANTOS - International Genealogical Index
> Gender: Male Christening: 14 FEB 1720 Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo,
> Coahuila, Mexico
>
> 4. JUANA LUCIA ARISPE SANCTOS - International Genealogical Index
> Gender: Female Christening: 23 DEC 1720 Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo,
> Coahuila, Mexico
>
> 5. MIGUEL ARISPE SANTOS - International Genealogical Index
> Gender: Male Christening: 06 OCT 1710 Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo,
> Coahuila, Mexico
>
> 6. JUO. YGNO. ARISPE STOS. - International Genealogical Index
> Gender: Male Christening: 13 SEP 1716 Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo,
> Coahuila, Mexico
>
> 7. FELISIANA QUITERIA ARISPE SANTOS - International Genealogical Index
> Gender: Female Christening: 29 JUN 1715 Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo,
> Coahuila, Mexico
>
> 8. JUAN JOSEPH ARISPE LOSSTN. - International Genealogical Index
> Gender: Male Christening: 08 MAR 1722 Sagrario Metropolitano, Saltillo,
> Coahuila, Mexico
>
>
> There were no Esparza family members on the above film that were indexed.
> But just because there weren't in the index does not mean they are not
> there. I have often found the you are lucky if 50 % of a film was
> actually indexed.
>
> The marriage records from 1684 to 1740 were not indexed at all. The
> marriage films need to be extracted.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> --
> Esther A. Herold
>
>
> -------------- Original message from Joseph Puentes
> : --------------
>
>
>> Phyls,
>>
>> the research@nuestrosranchos.org list is limited to research for
>> Jalisco, Zacatecas, and/or Aguascalientes. Actually the whole group is.
>> On the general@nuestrosranchos.org list there is a little leeway to ask
>> questions about areas outside our area of research, but it might be
>> better to start your introduction with your connection to our area of
>> research and then later ask and occasional question about outside areas.
>> Your genealogy was uploaded to your folder:
>>
>> First Log in and go to the files --> "Members Genealogies" --> "Your
>> last name, first name" area of the group or specifically at
>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15813 Please send in your
>> introduction (or re-introduction) to research@nuestrosranchos.org and
>> give this specific URL: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15813
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> joseph
>>
>> ===================
>>
>> Joseph Puentes
>> http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
>> http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)
>>
>>
>>
>> phyls esparza wrote:
>> > Mis ancestros eran Domingo Saldana Garcia Esparza married (caso
>> > con)Gertrudes
>> de los Santos Arispe en Saltillo, Sagrario Metropolitano, Coahuilla,
>> Mexico
>> >
>> > El hijo...their son was Manuel Elijio Arispe Esparza de Saltillo,
>> > Coahuilla,
>> Mexico caso con
>> > Maria Rita Felipa Quintanilla Guajardo and they lived in Lampazos de
>> > Naranjo,
>> Nuevo Leon Mexico.
>> >
>> > Does anyone have more information?
>> >
>> > Phyls Esparza, Texas
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>

[Fwd: [mexicanfhr] Genealogy Classes]

Published by makas_nc –
Foros
Announcements and Events

this is a great opportunity. If you can you should take Jonathan's class.

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi there Joseph ,

I tried sending an e-mail to Jonathan to the address you gave below but it returned . I am interested in taking the class .

Welester

> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 03:00:14 -0500> From: makas@nc.rr.com> To: announce@nuestrosranchos.org> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] [Fwd: [mexicanfhr] Genealogy Classes]> > > this is a great opportunity. If you can you should take Jonathan's class.> > joseph> > ===================> > Joseph Puentes> http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)> http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)> > -------- Original Message --------> Subject: [mexicanfhr] Genealogy Classes> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 02:36:06 +0000> From: mexicanfhr > Reply-To: mexicanfhr@yahoogroups.com> To: mexicanfhr@yahoogroups.com> > > > Just to let you all know. In a few weeks, I will start teaching a> weekly online genealogy class, probably on Hispanic Research, at> www.familyhistoryliveonline.com . It will be a 30 minute class. So, if> anyone is interested in learning more, let me know.> > Also, I can teach other classes at anytime, or maybe schedule to have> group conference.> > Jon
athan> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> > Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email.> http://us.click.yahoo.com/4It09A/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/hcOolB/TM&gt; --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links> > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mexicanfhr/&gt; > <*> Your email settings:> Individual Email | Traditional> > <*> To change settings online go to:> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mexicanfhr/join&gt; (Yahoo! ID required)> > <*> To change settings via email:> mailto:mexicanfhr-digest@yahoogroups.com > mailto:mexicanfhr-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com&gt; > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:> mexicanfhr-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/&gt; > > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > Nuestros Ranchos Announce Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> announce(at)Nue
strosRan
chos.com> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
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Comentario

For all of you, who have showed an interest in the class. Is there
any particular day of the week, that you would prefer having the class?

The following link: http://www.familyhistoryliveonline.com/class_list.php
shows the current classes being taught. Also, I will be teaching at
both fais, the April 21st and teh May 5.

Jonathan

Hurtado and Santiago from Los Haros

Published by longsjourney –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Raul, I have some records from these two lines. If you'd like I'd be happy to send you a genealogy report on what I have.

Linda Castanon-Long

Comentarios

Ruiz de Esparza family of Aguascalientes

Published by phyls esparza –
Foros
Genealogy Research

'The Ruiz de Esparza family is a well-known Basque family that settled in Aguascalientes at the beginning of the Seventeenth Century. The surname Esparza is said to mean one who came from Esparza (a barren place or a place where feather grass grew) in Spain. The word was derived from the Latin sparsus (spread abroad, scattered), probably referring to land that yields little. Esparza is the name of a village near Pamplona in Navarra (Navarre), España (Spain).

Nice Map of Aguascalientes

Published by makas_nc –
Foros
Genealogy Research

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?countrycode=155&country=MX&city=ag…*

*

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi Joseph:

If you have GoogleEarth you can go Aguascalientes and see everything is
fine detail. The whole area is high resolution, including Zacatecas.
I was told that all it takes to get your selected (favorite) area
photographed in high resolution and in Googleearth is $1000. There is a
rich rancher near Valparaiso who paid the money and now you can see that
area in high resolution. Something to think about...
Some other areas in high resolution are Villa Hidalgo, just North of
Teocaltiche, Jalostotitlán, that is where I was able to pinpoint my
ggrandfather's ranch, Can Cun, Monterrrey, Guaymas Sonora, where I own some
property. There quite a few other places, but these are the ones that come
to mind and more keep popping up in high resolution all the time. I check
about once a month to see what else is new.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Puentes"
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 12:44 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nice Map of Aguascalientes

>
> http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?countrycode=155&country=MX&city=ag…*
>
>
> *

Comentario

Hi John,

I downloaded GoogleEarth and checked the maps of Aguascalientes,
Guadalajara, Tepic and other cities in northern Mexico. The satellite
photographs are awesome, with more detail than I ever expected. For example
in Aguascalientes I was able to zoom into many buildings or streets and
practically trace my steps from my hotel in the historical center, to
several points of interest throughout the city. Thanks for sharing this
with the group.

Saludos,

Bill

Comentario

Hi Bill:
(and Group)

The high resolution areas in GoogleEarth can be found by looking for areas
of brown rectangles. Everything within the rectangle is pretty sharp.
Some of the places that might be of interest to the group are: Huejucar,
Tepetengo, Lobatos, Fresnillo, Rio Grande, San Jose de Garcia,
Aguascalientes, Zacatecas, Guadalajara, Chapala, Encarnacion de Diaz, Leon,
Silao, Guanjuato, Irapuato and many, many more...All in high resolution.
Take a virtual trip to Spain, if you been lucky enough to have traced your
ancestors all the way back to a place in Spain, you might find it in high
resolution also.
Warning: This activity is very addictive, but a lot of fun and
educational...enjoy your virtual trips to Mexico and Spain.

You'll get the most enjoyment exploring the world with GoogleEarth if you
have a newer or fast computer, and a DSL or Broadband internet connection.
I have a Dell XPS 400, 3 GHz and a Broadband internet connection with
Verizon Fiber Optics.

John Gonzalez
Wildomar, CA.

===============================================================================================================
> Hi John,
>
> I downloaded GoogleEarth and checked the maps of Aguascalientes,
> Guadalajara, Tepic and other cities in northern Mexico. The satellite
> photographs are awesome, with more detail than I ever expected. For
> example
> in Aguascalientes I was able to zoom into many buildings or streets and
> practically trace my steps from my hotel in the historical center, to
> several points of interest throughout the city. Thanks for sharing this
> with the group.
>
> Saludos,
>
> Bill

Comentario

cool tell me if you notice Colotlan or Santa Maria de Los Angeles or
even Tepetongo come into High Resolution.

thank John for keeping up with this. If you are able to legally do
"screen shots" maybe you can occasionally add some choice areas to the
maps section of the group.

thanks again,

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

John Gonzalez wrote:
> Hi Joseph:
>
> If you have GoogleEarth you can go Aguascalientes and see everything is
> fine detail. The whole area is high resolution, including Zacatecas.
> I was told that all it takes to get your selected (favorite) area
> photographed in high resolution and in Googleearth is $1000. There is a
> rich rancher near Valparaiso who paid the money and now you can see that
> area in high resolution. Something to think about...
> Some other areas in high resolution are Villa Hidalgo, just North of
> Teocaltiche, Jalostotitlán, that is where I was able to pinpoint my
> ggrandfather's ranch, Can Cun, Monterrrey, Guaymas Sonora, where I own some
> property. There quite a few other places, but these are the ones that come
> to mind and more keep popping up in high resolution all the time. I check
> about once a month to see what else is new.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joseph Puentes"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 12:44 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nice Map of Aguascalientes
>
>
>
>> http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?countrycode=155&country=MX&city=ag…*
>>
>>
>> *

Baptism of Twins

Published by Maureen Bejar –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I am sorry, I wanted to ask this question when we were discussing naming twins the same name, but I have not have not have time to visit the site lately and missed my chance. I could not find the link about the twins even in the search. So, I have started a new thread.

Comentarios

Comentario

I think they would have baptized both twins no matter what, since it is a religous sacrament, unless of course the child died before they could baptize. I think it is possible they went to two different churches if the children had separate godparents. Each godparent couple would have taken the child to their own church. But I couldn't say if that was the situation in your case.

An interesting story in my family was... My grandmother and her brother were orphaned at a very young age (under 5). Both children were raised by their godparents. For some reason the godparents had switched their names (on purpose or accident, who knows?). Therefore Maria Jesus and Jose Refugio became Maria Refugio and Jose Jesus. The mix up wasn't realized until Jose Jesus was trying to get married and they couldn't find his baptismal information. That is they couldn't find a baptismal record for Jose Jesus only for Maria Jesus and Jose Refugio. I guess at that point they realized what had happened. But the whole who's birthdates was who's, etc still confused everyone...

Angie Godina

Comentario

Dear Angie:
Thank you for the information. I did not know it was the godparents who chose the church. In this case it gives me an idea of where the baptism could have taken place. Thanks again.

Maureen Bejar

PAF Volunteer Needed

Published by makas_nc –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Who in the group is real comfortable using PAF to create reports in .rtf
format? If you have time and the willingness to volunteer to help other
Nuestros Ranchos members when they are having trouble converting their

Comentarios

Comentario

I need a volunteer to monitor the rootsweb groups that pertain to
Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes.

basically your job would be to look over the messages and make a basic
judgment of whether or not the person appeared to be serious about their
genealogical research. If they do look serious then you would send them
a form letter I'll send you which will introduce them to the group.

Let me know if anyone is interested in doing this very low key volunteer
job.

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

Valparaiso research

Published by nc_coleman –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I came across the following site (quite by accident - I was looking for something else) and thought I would post it, although I know not many are researching in this area. It is basically some general information regarding the Valparaiso district, including famous personages. It is a part of "Enciclopedia de los Municipios de Mexico, Estado de Zacatecas".

Comentarios

Comentario

I checked out the site Natalie discovered and found it to be very helpful. I couldn't access it, however, from the address given. It put up a notice saying access was denied, so I did a Goggle search on the Enciclopedia de los Municipios de Mexico and was able to use it then. I am researching in Jalisco and in Guadalajara Municipio right now, so I clicked on those and found a lot of info on the region plus photos, the tourist attractions, the statistics, demographics, etc. that is especially helpful for someone like me who has never been there and knows very little about the place. I hope to visit it someday.

Corrine Ardoin

Comentario

Corrine,

My name is Edward Serros, a member of the Ranchos group for some time. I would like to know your interest in the Valparaiso area, especially given your response to the link given by Natalie. My Felguerez family, hacendados, is discussed in the link. I am the end product of an illegitimate link between Felguerez and Cerros; my grandfather Cruz Cerros, a "jornalero," worked at El Astillero and in the pueblo. My Cerros and Felguerez grandparents came to the USA in ~1916-1917 from Valparaiso.

In fact, any one with the Serros or Felguerez surname in the USA is very, very likely related to me, given a peculiar set of circumstances and name changes. Strange surnames (apellidos) and history.

I have been to Valparaiso (April 2005) and will visit Villaviciosa, Asturias, Spain, the homeland of Domingo Antonio Felgueres (Felguerez) c. 1760-1770, the first Felgueres in Mexico, in July of this year. While in Villaviciosa I will stay in a small hotel run by Jose Manuel Felgueres Abad (Spanish style nomenclature). My father was Manuel Felguerez Serros (USA style nomenclature).

Please feel free to communicate with me via my personal email.

Edward Serros
Redlands, California

NPR article

Published by oldcar53 –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

Today while driving home I heard this segment on the radio, very interesting and informative on Al Sharpton's genealogy and the importance of documenting and verifying your sources, especially when you find that someone else has done the research.

Comentarios

Comentario

What a coincidence. I just read an article this morning on the Yahoo! main page regarding the same (link below)! Very interesting...

Dig Into Your Own Family's Past : Robin Raskin : Yahoo! Tech

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/raskin/9499

Alicia Carrillo wrote:
Today while driving home I heard this segment on the radio, very interesting and informative on Al Sharpton's genealogy and the importance of documenting and verifying your sources, especially when you find that someone else has done the research.

Joseph, this could probably saved as a POD cast

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7608389

[Fwd: Mijo's Birthday Party]

Published by makas_nc –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

thanks John for this submission. I like jokes but #2 always was special
in my house "2. The party is separated into women cooking, men drinking,
and kids playing."

Other than on Thanksgiving I can't remember my mom EVER sitting down to

Comentarios

Comentario

I can definitely relate to most of them! I've actually been one of those that is called to stop at the store on the way to the party!

As far as the comment you made about your mother cooking to your father's taste, well, I'm pretty sure it's the same for most women raised in Mexico or first generation Mexican-Americans learning from their Mexican mothers as far as being taught to cater to the "man of the house" who was usually the sole "bread-winner (unlike the American belief that if you have hands, you can serve yourself. OK, I'm generalizing, but I hope you get the idea.)." I have an aunt that was always revolted as the thought of touching raw meat and she ended up marrying a man from Michoacan who thinks that "solo sus chicharrones truenan (I thought you would appreciate that expression, that whatever he says, goes!). :-) She had to learn how to cook cow tongue and brains and other meals that she never ate, much less prepared. It goes to show how our Mexican culture is still so strong even in this country. As a newlywed, I'm feeling the stress of learning a style of cooking that is a bit
different from my mother's, especially because my husband's parents are from different regions of Mexico and it makes a big difference. The hardest part is not giving into the feeling that it's not fair, that I should be able to serve MY mother's style, too, but that's my personal feeling and I guess I've been exposed to too much "American feminism" for my husbands liking. LOL! It's only a natural thought, though, as my traditions are still very much my mother's traditions. And, even though my husband is not a "machista," his traditions are also his father's traditions, one of them being that he expects to be waited upon at mealtime. I haven't had a warm meal since I've been married because it seems that, as soon as I lift the fork to my mouth, I get some sort of request such as more tortillas, a napkin, a glass of water. It never fails...Anyway, I think I just painted a rather resentful picture of myself but it is not the case. I just think that, although our
culture is very deeply embedded in us, most women feel the same way and just some women are more outspoken than others...Like me!

Cristina

Comentario

My goodness Cristina, you sound like you were talking about my mother! I used to call her the Mexican Edith Bunker and that makes my Dad the Mexican Archie Bunker. I told her I would never wait on any man hand and foot like she did and she told me I just didn't understand yet.. She said she did it because she loved him and enjoyed making him feel special in one of the few ways she could. Now, 45 years later I understand. Problem is I'm married to a man who the first time I filled his plate and put it in front of him he asked me if I thought he didn't know how to do that himself! I had to laugh and learn to cater in other ways less obvious..
My husband is Anglo and from Ohio who meet his first Latina at age 18 when he moved to California. He made the comment that Mexicans seem to raise their daughters to think they are princess's.. ya know, in my family it's true! We all had Dad's that made us feel special and deserving and Mom's who taught us to be strong without our husbands knowing just how much we did and managed.. We come from wise stock!
thanks for sharing,
Linda in Everett

La Plus Belle wrote:
I can definitely relate to most of them! I've actually been one of those that is called to stop at the store on the way to the party!

As far as the comment you made about your mother cooking to your father's taste, well, I'm pretty sure it's the same for most women raised in Mexico or first generation Mexican-Americans learning from their Mexican mothers as far as being taught to cater to the "man of the house" who was usually the sole "bread-winner (unlike the American belief that if you have hands, you can serve yourself. OK, I'm generalizing, but I hope you get the idea.)." I have an aunt that was always revolted as the thought of touching raw meat and she ended up marrying a man from Michoacan who thinks that "solo sus chicharrones truenan (I thought you would appreciate that expression, that whatever he says, goes!). :-) She had to learn how to cook cow tongue and brains and other meals that she never ate, much less prepared. It goes to show how our Mexican culture is still so strong even in this country. As a newlywed, I'm feeling the stress of learning a style of cooking that is a bit
different from my mother's, especially because my husband's parents are from different regions of Mexico and it makes a big difference. The hardest part is not giving into the feeling that it's not fair, that I should be able to serve MY mother's style, too, but that's my personal feeling and I guess I've been exposed to too much "American feminism" for my husbands liking. LOL! It's only a natural thought, though, as my traditions are still very much my mother's traditions. And, even though my husband is not a "machista," his traditions are also his father's traditions, one of them being that he expects to be waited upon at mealtime. I haven't had a warm meal since I've been married because it seems that, as soon as I lift the fork to my mouth, I get some sort of request such as more tortillas, a napkin, a glass of water. It never fails...Anyway, I think I just painted a rather resentful picture of myself but it is not the case. I just think that, although our
culture is very deeply embedded in us, most women feel the same way and just some women are more outspoken than others...Like me!

Cristina

---------------------------------
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Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!

Comentario

Yes, Linda, I agree with you. We have been taught to be strong for our families and maintain order in our homes, even if that means dealing with a demanding husband or children who do not realize the sacrifices that are made in order for them to have something better than we had. All this done quietly and inconspicously so as not to give the impression that we are capable of being more than maids. :-) I think that is why some people do not understand our culture, why we remain silent and "just grin and bear it." We are taught, by example, that "la familia" and caring for those we love are more important than our own self-gratification. Of course, if you marry into a culture that can give you a break sometimes, even better! :-)

Erlinda Castanon-Long wrote:
My goodness Cristina, you sound like you were talking about my mother! I used to call her the Mexican Edith Bunker and that makes my Dad the Mexican Archie Bunker. I told her I would never wait on any man hand and foot like she did and she told me I just didn't understand yet.. She said she did it because she loved him and enjoyed making him feel special in one of the few ways she could. Now, 45 years later I understand. Problem is I'm married to a man who the first time I filled his plate and put it in front of him he asked me if I thought he didn't know how to do that himself! I had to laugh and learn to cater in other ways less obvious..
My husband is Anglo and from Ohio who meet his first Latina at age 18 when he moved to California. He made the comment that Mexicans seem to raise their daughters to think they are princess's.. ya know, in my family it's true! We all had Dad's that made us feel special and deserving and Mom's who taught us to be strong without our husbands knowing just how much we did and managed.. We come from wise stock!

thanks for sharing,

Linda in Everett

Comentario

Thanks for sharing the humor.. I know sometimes I take myself tooooo serious so this helps to bring a smile over things that really did and do happen in my family. I do wonder if I would find it as funny if my Anglo friend from Arkansas had sent it??
Linda

Joseph Puentes wrote:
thanks John for this submission. I like jokes but #2 always was special
in my house "2. The party is separated into women cooking, men drinking,
and kids playing."

Other than on Thanksgiving I can't remember my mom EVER sitting down to
eat with the family. She was always in the kitchen bring the food to the
table. I'd see her eat later. I wish I had enough curiosity to have
asked her questions. I'd love to know if she would have felt
uncomfortable sitting with us. Or if it was just the natural way of
being? or just the way things were in the style she was raised.

She also never cooked things according to her taste preferences but
according to how my dad liked things cooked. Then again I don't remember
him being a domineering type over her. When he'd have a few drinks and
they'd argue my mom could hold her end of the argument up very very well.

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Mijo's Birthday Party
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:44:55 -0800
From: John Gonzalez <1gnzlz@verizon.net>
To: Joseph Puentes

*Hi:*
**
*I think this is hilarious and I thought you might get a laugh out of
it...You can even share it with the rest of the group if you want.*

**
*Mijo's Birthday Party.*
**

**Top 15 ways to tell it's a MEXICAN birthday party: ***
*
1. some of the guests didn't bring a gift - but brought extra
uninvited kids.

2. The party is separated into women cooking, men drinking, and kids
playing.

3. The party is at Chuck E. Cheese but they brought their own food,
cake and a Piñata.

4. It's a child's party, but there are more grown ups than children.

5. It's Mijo's 1st birthday and the party food is carne asada,
arroz, frijoles and 10 cases of beer.

6. For entertainment, instead of playing pin the tail on the
donkey, there is usually a televised baseball or
futbol game, or a live fight.

7. The party was supposed to be over at 5pm, but its 7:30pm and the
party is just starting.

8. The host calls someone who's on their way and tells them to stop
and get some tortillas and ice.

9. You hear someone go up to the birthday child and say,
"Mira, que lindo. I'm going to have to get you
something next week when I get paid."

10. The party is Saturday, and you get a call from the hostess
Friday saying,"I'm giving Mijo a birthday party
tomorrow at 3pm"

11. Some guest bring gifts that are still in the Wal-Mart bag.

12. The cake didn't come from the store; it came from the
mother of the comadre of your best friend's sister who
makes really good cakes.

13. You are told you have to save your plate and fork you ate your
food with,so you can eat your cake.

14. Guests automatically wrap up a plate of food and cake to take
home.

15. It's Mijo's birthday, but since his cousin Maria is there
and her birthday is in a few days, it becomes Mijo's
and Maria's party.

**SEND THIS TO 7 MEXICANS. HECK, THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS "JUST 7"
MEXICANS! SEND THIS TO THE WHOLE FAMILIA!**

**

*1gnzlz@verizon.net *

**

**

Finding Addresses in Mexico

Published by Corrine Ardoin –
Foros
Genealogy Research

One of the clues I thought would help me to find the correct microfilm to
order for my greatgrandfather's civil death record, Alberto Martin del
Campo, was an address on his death notice my mother's mother had received

Comentarios

Comentario

One of the clues I thought would help me to find the correct microfilm to
order for my greatgrandfather's civil death record, Alberto Martin del
Campo, was an address on his death notice my mother's mother had received
from the church where his funeral was. The church, Nuestra Santa Madre
Iglesia Catolica in Guadalajara, does not seem to be in the Family History
Catalog, but I could still find the civil death record in order to find more
information on him and his family. So, as I was saying, the clue is an
address that was where the mourning was to take place before the funeral
procession to the Municipal Cemetery in Guadalajara. The address is "casa
No. 553 de la calle Arista." This was in July of 1941. I have tried to
find Arista Street on maps to no avail and wondered if the address is like
ours in the States, where it would read: 553 Arista Street. Of course, on
maps I assume it would read "calle de Arista." Would anyone know how I
could pin down this address? I think it may have been where my
greatgrandfather's family lived at the time, or perhaps a relative that may
link me further along in my search.

Thanks!
Corrine Ardoin

Comentario

Corrine:

The "Thomas Guide" of sorts of Mexico is called Guia Roji. They publish updated maps of the whole of Mexico's road system as well as city maps of major cities every year and they have an online street/colonia search tool:

http://www.guiaroji.com.mx/

Click on Guadalajara and simply enter "Arista" in the "calle" field and you will get several matches. I think that is as far as I can guide you but you should be able to locate the address from there unless it has changed between 1941 and now, which I doubt.

Comentario

Arturo:

I did find the site you mention. It was very helpful to locate many of the places I have only names of in documents. The church where my greatgrandfather's funeral was, was on Pedro Moreno, so I looked that up and I looked up Calle Arista and found that. They parallel the main streets of Avenidas Juarez and Vallarta. I also found the Nuestra Senora de Guadalupe Church a few blocks north of the Cathedral. It is turning out that my ancestor's records may be found in connection to this older downtown section, where all of these places are located.

Thankyou Arturo and Maria, too, for the wonderful help!

Dispensation Records - Bishphoric Marriage Records

Published by arturoramos –
Foros
Genealogy Research

The film below is from the Sagrada Mitra at the bishphoric of
Guadalajara and is the same series of marriage films that Luz
Montejano based her book on. Thus I would imagine it would have
similar information, i.e. all of the testimony and evidence and then

Comentarios

Comentario

Arturo, I answered my own question.. I looked up the Guadalajara records and see what you're talking about. I will order the film and see what comes of it!
thank you for another chance to find these elusive ancestors.
Linda

Erlinda Castanon-Long wrote:
Arturo, when I order this film > Matrimonios 1829-1830, 1850-1860, 1896 FHL INTL Film 168670, is it Guadalajara, Jalisco or does it read bishphoric of Guadalajara Jalisco? I'm not familiar with these films..

Linda

Dispensation records for Zacatecas

Published by longsjourney –
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Genealogy Research

Are there specific films for Zacatecas where the dispensation records that are in La Sagrada Mitra can be found? The book is very expensive and not really available as far as I can find. I would like to know if I can order the films the records are taken from from the LDS history center. I'm interested in the Jerez Zacatecas area's since so many early families intermarried. I've done the marriage information records and hey say when they are related but not who that person was 3 or 4 generations ago who was the trunk.

Comentarios

Comentario

Linda:

We got a bit off topic but I was rereading your message about you trying to find the marrige dispensation for the coupe Santiago Saldivar and Juliana Caldera. They were married in 1853, just three years before the new bishphoric of Zacatecas was formed so their dispensation would have been given by the bishop of Guadalajara.

While Luz Montejano stopped extracting around 1750, the dispensation records for later years are filmed. For some reason there are no films for 1853 however other than possibly:

Matrimonios 1829-1830, 1850-1860, 1896 (faltan años) FHL INTL Film
168670

or

Comentario

Arturo, I do have the marriage and the marriage information records for this couple, it's the actual dispensation record I'm looking for in the hopes that it names the trunk that would take me back another generation on my branch of the Caldera family. Any idea what film that would be? I have never ordered a film for actual dispensations and didn't know they existed. I always thought the information record and dispensation record were one and the same!

Boy we do learn on this site!
thank you, Linda

arturoramos wrote:

Linda:

We got a bit off topic but I was rereading your message about you trying to find the marrige dispensation for the coupe Santiago Saldivar and Juliana Caldera. They were married in 1853, just three years before the new bishphoric of Zacatecas was formed so their dispensation would have been given by the bishop of Guadalajara.

While Luz Montejano stopped extracting around 1750, the dispensation records for later years are filmed. For some reason there are no films for 1853 however other than possibly:

Matrimonios 1829-1830, 1850-1860, 1896 (faltan años) FHL INTL Film
168670

or

Comentario

Linda:

Dispensations were given by the bishop and were therefore kept chronologically for the entire bishphoric of Guadalajara, which included for the first couple of centuries everything north of Guanajuato, including Zacatecas, Nuevo Leon, Durango, Texas, Coahuila, etc.

The book is available through George Farias' bookstore online at:

http://www.borderlandsbooks.com/searchdb.asp

Though he seems to be out of stock at the moment. He reorders regularly. I had to wait a month or so when I bought mine.

Anyhow, Luz Montejano's book only covers the dispensations through about 1750 so the dispensation you mention would not be there. The only Calderas listed are:

Ana de Santiago Caldera
Cathalina Caldera
Cayetano Caldera
Nicolas Caldera
Nicolas de la Cruz Caldera
Pablo Caldera

Comentario

Thank you Arturo, are any of these Caldera's from Jerez Zacatecas? Do you think it's a good investment for me as far as records from Jerez go?
Linda

arturoramos wrote:

Linda:

Dispensations were given by the bishop and were therefore kept chronologically for the entire bishphoric of Guadalajara, which included for the first couple of centuries everything north of Guanajuato, including Zacatecas, Nuevo Leon, Durango, Texas, Coahuila, etc.

The book is available through George Farias' bookstore online at:

http://www.borderlandsbooks.com/searchdb.asp

Though he seems to be out of stock at the moment. He reorders regularly. I had to wait a month or so when I bought mine.

Anyhow, Luz Montejano's book only covers the dispensations through about 1750 so the dispensation you mention would not be there. The only Calderas listed are:

Ana de Santiago Caldera
Cathalina Caldera
Cayetano Caldera
Nicolas Caldera
Nicolas de la Cruz Caldera
Pablo Caldera

Comentario

Linda:

I believe that Susana Leniski has compiled a pretty detailed descendancy of Maria Cid Caldera based mostly on marriage dispensations from Luz Montejano's book and has posted it in her genealogy folder. So to the extent that there are Calderas from Zacatecas they are likely to be included there. I think most of the Calderas are from around Jerez since that is where Pedro Cid Caldera and his siblings lived and most people with that surname I imagine are descended from that group or were named after someone from that group (i.e. slaves or indigenous servants who took the name).

Miguel Caldera I believe had only one daughter named Isabel (illegitimate) who married and had two children whose surname I believe was De La Torre so his sister Maria's children (especially Pedro Cid Caldera) seem to be the legacy of that family as far as names go.

Comentario

Hi Arturo, I agree and Ed Serros was kind enough to send me a copy of the record. My biggest problem is not being able to read Spanish without the online translater.. but, it's getting better year by year..

When I bought and read Mexico's Miguel Caldera it talks about the Indio leaders who took his name, right up to actually calling themselves Miguel Caldera out of respect for him. I do believe my 3 Caldera grandmothers, all from El Durazno, Jerez Zacatecas, all claimed Espanol but I also found records in that same town who were Indio so the decendants of both the Espanol and Indio lines are there and in Boca de San Pedro, Jerez Zacatecas. I'm sure they are all over Zacatecas and San Luis Potosi but with so many records missing during the mid to late 1700's in Jerez it's a real challenge. In El Durazno, they were not listed as slaves, only Indio so I'd like to believe they were from the Guachichiles/ Chichimeca Indio leaders, late 1600's, lines listed in the book. 12 Chichimeca chiefs went with Miguel Caldera to Mexico City where they recieved gifts and promises, from some of these chiefs decend other Indio Caldera's as well.

I think one of the most interesting things when I went to El Durazno, Jerez in 2003 I met almost everyone in El Durazno, population today of abt 250. Almost everyone there carries Caldera lineage. I found one thing in common with that lineage, green eyes! I've never seen so many shades of green eyes and these are the decendants of the people who've lived in that rancho since late 1600's so the lines are pretty much mixed with the same families over and over for 400 years. I was amazed how much I looked like them right down to the green eyes. I went to a wedding while I was there and they told me I was a daughter of El Durazno, by blood and by looks. It was nice to "go home."
thanks again, Linda in Everett

arturoramos wrote:

Linda:

I believe that Susana Leniski has compiled a pretty detailed descendancy of Maria Cid Caldera based mostly on marriage dispensations from Luz Montejano's book and has posted it in her genealogy folder. So to the extent that there are Calderas from Zacatecas they are likely to be included there. I think most of the Calderas are from around Jerez since that is where Pedro Cid Caldera and his siblings lived and most people with that surname I imagine are descended from that group or were named after someone from that group (i.e. slaves or indigenous servants who took the name).

Miguel Caldera I believe had only one daughter named Isabel (illegitimate) who married and had two children whose surname I believe was De La Torre so his sister Maria's children (especially Pedro Cid Caldera) seem to be the legacy of that family as far as names go.

Comentario

Linda:

As you may know, there are several books in the Inmaculada parrish in Jerez that were never filmed. We have been trying to lobby Benicio Samuel Sanchez Garcia to get a team to go back down and get those filmed along with the remains of the oldest books in nearby Colotlan, Jalisco. Perhaps if you add your name to the petition it will move it along.

Comentario

Arturo, I was not aware there are more records that have not been recorded. How do I add my name to this list you're talking abt? I'm not aware of it. Who is Benicio Samuel Sanchez Garcia?

Do you know what kind of records they are or what years they cover? Has anyone been able to access them when they were in Jerez or Colotlan or are there copies located somewhere else? I'm under the impression the records were not filmed in the smaller towns but at the place the copies were sent. Is this correct? How exciting!
Linda

arturoramos wrote:

Linda:

As you may know, there are several books in the Inmaculada parrish in Jerez that were never filmed. We have been trying to lobby Benicio Samuel Sanchez Garcia to get a team to go back down and get those filmed along with the remains of the oldest books in nearby Colotlan, Jalisco. Perhaps if you add your name to the petition it will move it along.

Comentario

Oh, yes, exciting! I would love to add my name to the petition, also, as I have been finding that I have some ancestors coming up from the Colotlán and El Refugio areas in Jalisco. I think they're so close to Momax that people could go in either direction for services. Where do I sign?!?! :-)

Erlinda Castanon-Long wrote: Arturo, I was not aware there are more records that have not been recorded. How do I add my name to this list you're talking abt? I'm not aware of it. Who is Benicio Samuel Sanchez Garcia?

Do you know what kind of records they are or what years they cover? Has anyone been able to access them when they were in Jerez or Colotlan or are there copies located somewhere else? I'm under the impression the records were not filmed in the smaller towns but at the place the copies were sent. Is this correct? How exciting!
Linda

arturoramos wrote:

Linda:

As you may know, there are several books in the Inmaculada parrish in Jerez that were never filmed. We have been trying to lobby Benicio Samuel Sanchez Garcia to get a team to go back down and get those filmed along with the remains of the oldest books in nearby Colotlan, Jalisco. Perhaps if you add your name to the petition it will move it along.

Comentario

What petition? I will sign on. This Samuel is from Monterrey, correct?

Mickey

-----Original Message-----
From: arturo.ramos2@gmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 3:04 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Missing records in Jerez

Linda:

As you may know, there are several books in the Inmaculada parrish in Jerez that
were never filmed. We have been trying to lobby Benicio Samuel Sanchez Garcia
to get a team to go back down and get those filmed along with the remains of the
oldest books in nearby Colotlan, Jalisco. Perhaps if you add your name to the
petition it will move it along.

Comentario

Everybody interested in this region:

I apologize, I should have been more clear, there is no physical petition for filming of the unfilmned books in Jerez and Colotlan, there is only an informal lobbying of Sameuel Sanchez (who lives in Monterrey and is a member of this group) to push for the filming of these records. Obviously, there are costs involved in this and therefore it is much easier said than done, but if there is a core of people that would really like to have access to these records, perhaps we can do something.

The first thing to do would be to contact Samuel and simply let him know that you think this is an important project. We may eventually have to do more than that but I know that the Colotlan records are not available to the public at the church and they are already deteriorated so the longer we wait the worse off we are. These are precious documents that need to be preserved.

Please look up Samuel and write him a note about this if you are genuinely interested in having it done.

Comentario

Arturo, does Samuel speak English or should I have my letter translated into Spanish for him. Do you know if they are making monetary collections for this project?
Linda in Everett

arturoramos wrote:

Everybody interested in this region:

I apologize, I should have been more clear, there is no physical petition for filming of the unfilmned books in Jerez and Colotlan, there is only an informal lobbying of Sameuel Sanchez (who lives in Monterrey and is a member of this group) to push for the filming of these records. Obviously, there are costs involved in this and therefore it is much easier said than done, but if there is a core of people that would really like to have access to these records, perhaps we can do something.

The first thing to do would be to contact Samuel and simply let him know that you think this is an important project. We may eventually have to do more than that but I know that the Colotlan records are not available to the public at the church and they are already deteriorated so the longer we wait the worse off we are. These are precious documents that need to be preserved.

Please look up Samuel and write him a note about this if you are genuinely interested in having it done.

Comentario

Linda:

I imagine that Samuel reads English but I would be more than happy to translate a letter for you if you feel it is more appropriate to communicate with him in Spanish. Samuel runs the Sociedad Geanalogica del Norte de Mexico and is very involved in the Mexican LDS genealogy projects.

As far as seeing the records, I have seen the Colotlan book though I was prohibited from touching or opening it by the priest. Esteban Valdes Salazar has transcribed large parts of it and is very familiar with it. It is basically the remnants of a number of older Franciscan Convent books that have had holes punched through them and put into a binder... apparently the pages that were too damaged were discarded... how awful!

I know that Leonardo de la Torre Berumen has seen and transcribed many of the Jerez books and Susana Leniski has had the parrish archivist inventory them all for her.

Guadalajara Research

Published by Corrine Ardoin –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I was reminded about another thing to keep in mind when researching
Guadalajara. The old barrios, or neighborhoods, were made into "colonias,"
so that is another way they divided up the city for census purposes,

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