Familias Michel Ordonez y San Martin en Jalisco.

Para los siguientes miembros de Nuestros Ranchos; Felipe Michel, Jorge Michel, Roberto Michel y Julie Fernandez.

Comentarios

Comentario

Que Tal a Todos, Mi nombre es Juan Michel, Soy originario de la Ciudad de Guadalajara y al igual que Todos interesado en encontrar cada vez mas información de nuestra Familia, Desde ya hace muchos años he tenido contacto con documentos y personas que me han acercado en poco a poco ir descifrando algunas dudas, mismas que muchos tienen, Principalmente sobre el origen de los Michel, hablando exactamente de los Neo gallegos, Familia Fundadora de Guadalajara.

Sabemos Que venían Con Españoles, sin embargo en muchos documentos Tanto Diego de San Martin y Juan Michel son nombrados como Portugueses, y hablantes de una lengua o dialecto extranjero, , sin embargo en aquel Tiempo los españoles tambien llamaban ¨Portugues¨ a alguien venido del Puerto o bien ser Extranjero, no precisamente Nacido en Portugal.

Recientemente he encontrado algunos datos que dan un pequeño giro a lo que todos sabíamos hasta ahora sobre el origen de nuestros Famosos Ancestros.

Existe un documento fechado en 1511, de un viaje a Indias de un par de Hermanos, a la isla de Puerto Rico llamados Juan Michel y Diego Michel (coincidentemente se llama Diego) según libros ellos Recibieron vecindades el mismo año en la isla y fueron encomenderos, en el caso de Juan Michel tuvo el cargo de Gobernador de Algunas ciudades como La isla de San German y San Juan (actual capital Boricua) al parecer estuvieron Muchos Años en aquellos lugares.

Otros Documentos Detallan sucesos Como la petición de una Licencia al Rey por parte de aquel Juan michel para llevar de Puerto rico a España a un Chico de 18 años llamado Cristóbal (coincidentemente se llama Cristóbal)en aquel documento detallan que es un Indio Naboria, sin embargo en otra petición de licencia detalla perfectamente y menciona y explica que Cristóbal el chico de 18 años no es indio, sino Español, tanto en aspecto, como en acento y que por ello debe viajar a España.

En lo personal Creo que hay muchísima coincidencia con los nombres y fechas y Podria ser posible que aquel Juan michel realmente fue tio de cristobal y cristobal hijo de Diego Michel ( Posible Diego de San Martin) quien También es padre de Nuestro Fundador Juan Michel, eso coincide con los datos de que Diego de San Martin y Elvira Ordoñez tuvieron 2 hijos Juan y Cristobal.

Otro dato importante es que en muchos documentos de la fundación de Guadalajara se mencionan a dos Juan Michel, incluso en la lista de fundadores se menciona a un Juan Michel como Portugues y al otro como Montañez, eso podría justificar que el Juan michel Portugues podría haber sido el que estuvo en Puerto Rico y hermano de Diego Michel quien también es denominado Portugues y el otro Juan Michel seria el hijo de Diego y Elvira, y sobrino del otro Juan Michel.

Algo muy importante es que encontré en un libro llamado silent heritage algunos datos sumamente claros que constatan que Nuestro Juan Michel Nacio en Genova Italia y es hablante de Italiano, claramente menciona que es hijo de Diego de San Martin y Elvira Ordoñez, lo menciona en varias partes, asi como hermano de cristobal. Por supuesto con la ayuda de estimado Jose Antonio Michel.

También explica en el mismo que según datos Diego de san Martin se caso 2 veces, primero con Elvira y después con Maria Corral, y al parecer Tambien Elvira contrajo segundas nupcias con Sebastian de Grijalva, con quien procreo a Juana Velazquez, (media Hermana de Juan y Cristobal) esposa de Diego Vazquez de Buendía (importante fundador) se sabe que Juana Velazquez y diego Vazquez fueron el primer matrimonio de Españoles celebrado en Guadalajara.

como podrán darse cuenta esos nuevos datos aportan una nueva idea sobre el origen de nuestra ilustre Familia,

Seguire Escribiendo poco a poco sobre lo que he encontrado.

un saludo

Juan Michel B.

Comentario

Saludos, soy curioso lo que son los piensas en el siguiente índice y registro posterior para el baptismo de Alonso Michel de Carbajal, el hijo legítimo de Juan Michel y María Carbal de julio de 1570?

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJ8Y-1TTF

Este récord errores la palabra baptismo para un nombre, ya que cada entrada en el siguiente enlace también utiliza la palabra por lo que el nombre de un índice Juan Baptista Michel es incorrecta.

Haga clic para ver el registro real de la página arriba a la derecha.

Si esto es cierto, que lo que significa esto de la información antes de que Cristóbal Ordóñez casó alrededor de 1568 con Francesca Ruizfarache o Rifarache como la línea original de Michel?

El índice y grabar crean una línea de Michels antes del 1570 ... ¿Alguna posibilidad de este Juan Michel es en realidad Juan Michel Ordóñez se casó por segunda vez a una María Carbajal?

English here:

Greetings, I am curious what are the thoughts on the following index and subsequent record for the baptism of Alonso Michel de Carbajal, the legitimate son of Juan Michel and Maria Carbal from July, 1570?

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJ8Y-1TTF

This record mistakes the word baptismo for a name, as every entry on the following link also uses the word so the indexed name Juan Baptisa Michel is incorrect.

Click to see the actual record on the top right page.

If this is true, than what does this mean of the prior information that Cristobal Ordonez married circa 1568 to Francesca Ruizfarache or Rifarache as the original Michel line?

The index and record create a line of Michels prior to 1570...Any chance this Juan Michel is actually Juan Michel Ordonez married a second time to a Maria Carbajal?

Comentario

Hola Gil,

How interesting - there are 2 partidas for Alonso: one from 11 jul and the other from 14 jul. But I don't think it's the same Juan Michel hijo de Cristobal Ordonez.

Here are the ordenes for Gabriel Ordonez, son of Cristobal Ordonez and Francisca Rifarache, 15 Sep 1600, Guadalajara. Cristobal Ordonez is testigo on img018, he gives his age as 70 poco mas o menos.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-DJ5K-2?wc=SSKH-6TG%3A17193…

Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Hola Juan Michel y Sylvia Corona:

Estaba leyendo sobre lo que hablan de la documentacion que salio nueva sobre Diego de San Martin y Juan Michel. Yo he oido hablar de esa documentacion. No la he visto pero tengo un primo que dice que hay un libro que contradice un poco lo que dice esa informacion que porque tiene algunos datos muy diferentes. Me gustaria ver lo que tienen ustedes para ver si es la misma que dice mi primo. El dice que si es la misma pero yo no se. Voy a ver si mi primo me dice que libro vio para decirles. El realmente no sabe nada pero el dice que supo de esa informacion con un maestro de historia. Me interesa saber de mi rama. Pero nadie me sabe dar razon. Yo estoy atorado con mis abuelos y mis tios dicen que no saben nada.

Antonio Michel

Comentario

Esta información me resulta muy interesante, tienes algo sobre los Michel de
Ejutla?, en particular de Maria Theresa Michel Santana, casada en 1806 con
Jose Abundio Medina Peña, ella es hija de Juan Michel y Mariana Santana,
Juan Michel hijo de Antonio Michel y Anastacia Cuevas, Antonio es hijo de
Pedro Michel y Tomasa ???
Mariana Santana hija de Antonio Santana Gomez y Marina Peña Castillo
Antonio Santana hijo de Antonio Santana Lopez y Feliciana Gomez de Garcia

Muchas Gracias

Comentario

PArece que esta es Tomasa Uribe casada con Pedro Michel, en mis registros.
Si tengo un Pedro Michel bautizado en 1691 en Guadalajara y es posible que
es tu Pedro pero necesitmaos comprobarlo. Ya para los siglo XVI-XVII los Michel
son parientes muy cercanos ya que no hubo gran descendencia. Hay posibilidad
que Michel fue pasado maternalmente. Los unicos en los registros de Guadalajara
parece en Guadalajara alreadores de 1618, pues eso pone los padres nacidos
hacia 1590. Seguramente desciendiente del conquistador Michel

Daniel Mendez Camino

> Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 12:07:36 -0500
> From: pattyharo@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Familias Michel Ordonez y San Martin en Jalisco.
>
> Esta información me resulta muy interesante, tienes algo sobre los Michel de
> Ejutla?, en particular de Maria Theresa Michel Santana, casada en 1806 con
> Jose Abundio Medina Peña, ella es hija de Juan Michel y Mariana Santana,
> Juan Michel hijo de Antonio Michel y Anastacia Cuevas, Antonio es hijo de
> Pedro Michel y Tomasa ???
> Mariana Santana hija de Antonio Santana Gomez y Marina Peña Castillo
> Antonio Santana hijo de Antonio Santana Lopez y Feliciana Gomez de Garcia
>
> Muchas Gracias

Comentario

Juan Michel no tuvo descendencia, y toda la familia Michel desciende de un
Juan Michel pero este es hijo de Cristobal Ordonez hermano de Juan Michel el
que fue regidor de Guadalajara.
No he tenido tiempo do ver mis archivos pero la familia MIchel es muy
numerosa, se encuentran relacionados my cercanamente con los Corona, ya que
si no son: Michel Corona, Michel Michel, Corona MIchel o Corona Corona
entonces son Uribe, Godoy, Perez de Alencastre y muchos otros.
A los descendientes de este segundo Juan Michel se les encuentra en el sur
de Jalisco Atlan, Tonaya, y toda esa region.
Sylvia H Corona Cortes

Comentario

Se me olvido pero los Alencastre con titulados, voy a buscar los registros de ellos.

Daniel Mendez y Perez de Camino

> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 20:32:57 -0500
> From: shcorona@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Familias Michel Ordonez y San Martin en Jalisco.
>
> Juan Michel no tuvo descendencia, y toda la familia Michel desciende de un
> Juan Michel pero este es hijo de Cristobal Ordonez hermano de Juan Michel el
> que fue regidor de Guadalajara.
> No he tenido tiempo do ver mis archivos pero la familia MIchel es muy
> numerosa, se encuentran relacionados my cercanamente con los Corona, ya que
> si no son: Michel Corona, Michel Michel, Corona MIchel o Corona Corona
> entonces son Uribe, Godoy, Perez de Alencastre y muchos otros.
> A los descendientes de este segundo Juan Michel se les encuentra en el sur
> de Jalisco Atlan, Tonaya, y toda esa region.
> Sylvia H Corona Cortes

Comentario

Querido Primo:
Me interesa compartir informacion contigo, esta es mi rama principal de
estudio.
me interesa que me compartas la fuente de esta nota:
Don Diego de San Martin. El aparece en los Archivos Generales de Indias. Se
catagoriza originario del norte de Espana por hablar un idioma Portuges o
Gallego que son similares
Gracias
SYlvia H Corona Cortes.

Juan Antonio García and Adulfa Tadea Briceño

I'm curious if anyone has any information on this couple from Jerez, Zacatecas, Juan Antonio García and Adulfa Tadea Briceño. They would've married sometime around 1762.

Comentarios

Comentario

I'm curious if anyone has any information on this couple from Jerez, Zacatecas, Juan Antonio García and Adulfa Tadea Briceño. They would've married sometime around 1762. They had five children that I know of, all born in Jerez, Zacatecas between 1764 and 1774. Any information that anyone might have would be greatly appreciated.

Chris

Joaquin Martin del Campo and Luisa Leonor Perez

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

Im trying to find who the parents are of the grandparents listed on this
baptism

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-KM9T-G9

the paternal grandparents are J

Comentarios

Don Vicente Martin del Campo and Ma Francisca ?

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

I'm looking for information on this couple that married may 7 1803 named
Don Jose Maria Romo de Vivar and Guadalupe Martin del Campo.

Comentarios

Comentario

The parents of Guadalupe are Vicente Martín del Campo and María Francisca Hernández.

The dispensa of don Jose Maria Romo de Vivar and Guadalupe Martin del Campo is at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18411-54544-89?cc=1874591

José María was the son of Juan Cayetano Romo de Vivar Martín del Campo and María Guadalupe Martín del Campo Macías Valadez married 15 Oct 1744 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18565-22377-20?cc=1874591

Juan Cayetano Romo de Vivar Martín del Campo married a second time 3 Feb 1779 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18447-24803-58 and they also had a dispensa. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18408-9003-39

María Guadalupe Martín del Campo Macías Valadez was the daughter of Juan Manuel Martín del Campo de Anda Altamirano and Juana Rita Macías Valadez Muñoz de Nava married 6 Sep https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18565-20793-24?cc=1874591

Juan Manuel was the son of Nicolás Martín del Campo Isassi and Josefa Anda Altamirano Morán de Ledesma

Nicolás Martín del Campo Isassi was the son of Nicolás Martín del Campo y López de la Cruz and Sebastiana Isassi Cuevas married 20 Jan 1663 in Santa María de los Lagos (currently named Lagos de Moreno) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18684-23188-9?cc=1874591

Nicolás Martín del Campo y López de la Cruz was the son of Lázaro Martín del Campo baptized 2 April 1608 in Revilla de Campos, Palencia, Castilla y León and María López de la Cruz

---------------------------------------------------------------

Vicente Martín del Campo was the son of Juan Antonio Martín del Campo y Macías Valadez and Petra Saínez de Santiago y Enríquez del Castillo married 19 June 1736 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18565-19928-52?cc=1874591

Juan Antonio was the son of Lázaro Martín del Campo Isassi and Ana Macías Valadez y Gutiérrez de Mendoza married 19 de febrero 1692 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18567-41346-7?cc=1874591

Lázaro Martín del Campo Isassi was the son of Nicolás Martín del Campo y López de la Cruz and Sebastiana Isassi Cuevas

Armando

Esteban Nieto and Ana Rodriguez aka Diaz

The discussion regarding the Nieto Corona's got me looking at my Nieto line which originates in Valle de Armadillo, SLP with Esteban Nieto and Ana Rodriguez she is also listed as Ana Diaz.

Comentarios

LUCAS DE ALCALA Y OROZCO

Soy descendiente de MIGUEL DE ALCALA Y MENDOZA ( Hurtado de Mendoza), hijo de Lucas de Alcalá y Orozco y Juana Aviña Hurtado de Mendoza, es una linea que aunque ya prácticamente completa me interesa c

Pedro de Castañeda and Jacinta de Sotomayor

Hola primos y primas,

Comentarios

Comentario

this is the record for joan dias de leon and jacinta de sotomayor don't know if it is information you already have visited.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-B751-9

This record Id LVYJ-Y2H is for Nicolas de Castaneda de Sotomayor I have attached his IM to this record he is married to Ana Vargas de Cardona may not be the same person you are looking for but here is IM. married 15 Abril 1656 I could not read who was his first wife

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-B716-G

Comentario

Hi Simona,

Thanks for posting. Jacinta Martinez de Sotomayor, who married Juan Diaz de Leon “El Mozo” is daughter of Andres Martinez de Sotomayor and Maria de Islas y Moctezuma. She is from at least 1 generation later than the target Jacinta de Sotomayor, and might have been named after her.

Nicolas de Castañeda is a son of Pedro de Castañeda and Jacinta de Sotomayor. Check Mary Lou’s notes, there is a file for this family group that names their known children.

Mary Lou,

You likely already have these 2 dispensas (in fact, they’re both probably in “Cartas”), but they establish that Jacinta de las Ruelas (cc Antonio Jimenez) was daughter of Andres Martin and Maria de Ruelas:

Alvaro Carrillo cc Josepha Flores 3o consang; the groom’s mother is prima hermana del padre del pretenso:

TRONCO Andres Martin cc Maria de Ruelas
Jacinta de Ruelas-1-Augustina de Ruelas
(Antonio Jimenez) (Gonzalo Gomez)
Augustina de Ruelas-2-Antonio Gomez Garcia
(Nicolas Carrillo) (Francisca Flores de la Torre)
Alvaro Carrillo-3-Josepha Gomez
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-X4N7-Z?i=478&wc=3J48-MN5

Bernardo de Ornelas cc Gabriela Sanchez Carrillo 4o grado por ser hermanas sus bisabulas Maria de Sotomayor y Jacinta de Ruelas:

Maria de Sotomayor-1-Jacinta de Ruelas
(Juan Montanez) (Antonio Jimenez)
Elena Montanez-2-Augustina de Ruelas
(Diego Perez Frias) (Nicolas Carrillo)
Melchora Perez-3-Ygnacio Carrillo
(Joseph Ornelas) (Gertrudis Sanchez)
Bernardo Ornelas-4-Gabriela Sanchez Carrillo
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-61ZH?mode=g&i=695&wc=3J4H-…

Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Hello Mary Lou,

this is a little off topic, but, I read the same genealogy carrion that Manny read and you mention Gines de Carrion and Francisca de Temiño who are my ancestors. and you mention their son Diego Carrion's madrina was Doña Angela de Velasco, so does that mean Doña Angela de Velasco and Francisca de Temiño are sisters and if they are do you know who their parents are

I mostly wanted to know if these Temiño and Velasco's are related to Angela Temiño de Velasco whos married to Geronimo de Orozco.

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Thank you so much, Manny and Danny, for the new information on the Castaneda/Gomez lines. And the Jacintas data, too. Very helpful. I can't get to my records for a few days so don't have much to contribute right now. But I will.

Decided to go through some old email correspondence with other genealogists and found some Family Group Sheets that I had shared. I've uploaded them to a newly created Family Group Sheet folder in my Dropbox Genealogy folder. These FGS are all unpolished, as is, done years ago. Fortunately one of them is on Carrion. That's all I have for now. I'll follow up on my source for the Diego Carrion 1615 baptism.

Good luck with Blas Nieto.

Mary Lou

Comentario

In a few minutes check my Dropbox account. I'm uploading my family group sheet on this couple with their many children. This may be old news to you, but it's what I have. On the back of the sheet I wrote:

Josepha says in will that she raised Ines Calvillo de Castañeda, hl de Joseph de Castañeda y Thomasa Marchan. Albaceas: Juan Balades y Antonio de Castañeda.

Mary Lou Montagna

Comentario

In the Pinos baptism records there is an 18 Oct 1626 entry that reads:

"En Sierra de Pinos en diesiocho deste dicho mes baptize a Jetrudis hija de Blas Nieto y Veatris Lopez su mujer. Padrinos Gonsalo Gomes y Ysabel Marin."

There is an accent on the "i" in Marin, I just don't know how to type it here. That's all I have on them. Included the FGS in Dropbox.

I also found a Blas Nieto cc Isabel Perez in San Luis Potosi. Their son Juan was baptized on 27 Oct 1637 in SLP. PP: Elvira Rangel mujer de Rodrigo Hernandez.

Mary Lou Montagna

Comentario

Hello, Danny. The entry specifically says Angela is "tia del dicho Diego," so I assume Angela and Francisca are sisters. I've done little research on these lines and do not have their parents. But I scanned Diego Carrion's baptism entry for you (see Dropbox). It's entered out of order and the priest goes on and on. Wish we could read Gines de Carrion's little book. Better still, wish we had the old record book the priest refers to.

Regards,
Mary Lou

Comentario

Thanks, Manny.

Just uploaded my FGS on Antonio Jimenez and Jacinta de las Ruelas.

Also the FGS on Andres Martin and Maria de las Ruelas (Sotomayor), the root of my Martin de Sotomayor.

Plus a brief write-up I did a few years ago on Maria de las Ruelas (one of my favorite ancestors).

Mary Lou

Comentario

Hello, Manny. These couples are challenging to decipher. I keep going back and forth. I tend to think the younger Jacinta (married to Antonio) is the daughter of Andres Martin and Maria de las Ruelas...and...the older Jacinta (married to Pedro) could be the sister of Maria de las Ruelas. They are not my direct ancestors so I haven't spent much time on them. I wrote up something last year on them and have it in my Dropbox GENEALOGY folder. Take a look.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yop1j3tqornd0xh/AABnVNtOvuDJtcuW0Gk5vgBHa?dl…

Regards, Mary Lou

Comentario

​
Hi Mary Lou,

I hoped that you’d be the one to respond! Because the first file I opened, Genealogy Carrion, had relevant (and new) information!

As it turns out, my current project involves Blas Nieto. I was hoping that someone had already established the ancestry of Jacinta de Sotomayor cc Pedro Castañeda, in which case, 1) my problem is solved! 2) I have documents to support or refute it.

I’ve found no other mention of Blas Nieto, but I will post what I have on his descendants, and my theories. Jacinta de Sotomayor was either sister or daughter of Maria de Ruelas, and we are going to figure that out.

By the way, thank you for filling in Nicolas Castañeda’s Avalos line, which I didn’t have, here’s Maria Gomez’s:

​I. ​Baltasar aka Sebastian de Avalos (muleteer in Pozos SLP) cc Mariana de Castro
​II. ​Agustin de Avalos cc Magdalena Ruiz Camarillo
​III. ​Isabel de Avalos aka Isabel Ruiz de Villaseñor cc Matias Gomez de Sotomayor
​IV. ​Maria Gomez y Ruiz

Gracias y Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Hi Mary Lou,

The Nicolas Castañeda/Maria Gomez dispensa was posted here at NR a few years back. Read my entry from 6 Nov 2014 (last in the thread), which reveals some of my work on Blas Nieto's descendants: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/node/21449

For your notes, here's what the tree should look like in that dispensa:
Jacinta de Sotomayor-1-Blas Nieto
(Pedro de Castañeda) ( Unknown)
Nicolas de Castañeda-2-Juan Gomez Nieto aka Juan Gomez de Ruelas y Sotomayor
(Ana de Vargas) (Maria Teresa Martinez Guerrero)
Antonio de Castañeda-3-Matias Gomez de Sotomayor
(Tomasa de Carrion) (Ysabel Ruiz de Villaseñor)
Nicolas de Castañeda-4-Maria Gomez y Ruiz

I've expanded my research, and I'm working on the premise that the relationship is not between Jacinta de Sotomayor and Blas Nieto, but between Jacinta de Sotomayor and his wife: we’ve all read enough of these old declarations, to know that the word “hermano” was used for “cuñado,” so one must always look into the possibility that the relationship is through the spouses, rather than through those named.

I also think that Blas Nieto might be from a generation earlier, and that Juan Gomez Nieto is actually the son of Gonzalo Gomez, who might be the same who was married to Augustina de Ruelas. If I'm right on both counts, then this might establish that Gonzalo Gomez was son of Blas Nieto (and not Benito de la Isla), and that Jacinta de Sotomayor was his sister-in-law, and therefore daughter of Andres Martin and Maria de Ruelas.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Maria de Ulloa with Francisco Villasenor 23 Sep 1630 Dispensa

In this dispensa there are two contreras mentioned of which I am searching the parents of Nicolas Contreras 1640 of Teocaltiche who married luebana and elvira luisa delgado tiscareno but the records d

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi Simona,

Below is the information that I was able to decipher:

Francisco Velloso, [mas de veintinueve años] natural de la villa de Carmona en los Reinos de Castilla, hijo legitimo de Fernando Velloso de Ojeda y de Beatriz de Contreras, vecinos de la dicha villa dijo yo quiero contraer matrimonio...con Maria de Ulloa, hija legitima de Francisco de Contreras y de Mariana de Ulloa, vecinos del pueblo de Zapotlan
Testigos: 1) Ana de Contreras, viuda de Pedro Perez, hermana de Maria de Ulloa; 2) Pedro Perez (signed Pedro Garcia de Aguilar), conoce a la dicha Maria de Ulloa de seis años porque es tia de la mujer de este; 3) Jeronimo Ventura, habra tiempo de cuatro años que conoce al dicho Francisco Velloso; 4) Miguel Perez, ha veinte años que lo conocio en Tlaxcala y despues aca hasta hoy…cuando le conocio este en Tlaxcala el dicho Francisco Velloso era muy mozo

Hope this helps.
Austin

Research Digest, Vol 121, Issue 13

The word you are reading is "rasa" not "vasa." It is a term used in the
liempiza de sangre (purity of blood) documents where witnesses testify that
they know of no Jewish, Muslim or even Lutheran an

Comentarios

Florentino Jaimes

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

I'm trying to read this death of Florentino Jaimes

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-XK5W-JPX

and some of it doesn't really make sense when I try to use g

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi Danny

Here's my attempt of translating the part that you listed with my comments and added text for clarification:

and not the Eucharist because of the distance (Florentino did not receive the holy Eucharist because of the distance that the priest had to travel), he gave his last will and testament (I believe that a 'memoria testamentaria' is a 'testamento' that is given by a person on their deathbed) which was made in San Antonio de Buenavista on the 12th of the current [month] in which he orders payment for the obligatory offerings of two (reales?) for each [required offering] and that 100 Masses be offered [for the intention of his soul]. He names don Manuel Jaime as his executor.

Hope this helps.
Austin

Jose Justo Mirabal and Maria Nicolasa De Orta

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

I'm trying to find the parents of Jose Justo Mirabal and Maria Nicolasa De
Orta that was married on January 8, 1804 in Santa Maria del Rio, San Luis
Potosi.

T

Comentarios

Manuel Mirabal and Guadalupe Baiza

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

I'm looking for the parents of Manuel Mirabal and Guadalupe Baiza.

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi Danny

Below is how I see it:

don Manuel Mirabal
soltero, originario y vecino de este puelbo, hijo legitimo de Justo Mirabal, difunto, y de Maria Nicolasa de Orta, que vive

doña Maria Guadalupe Barza
doncella de veintidos años de edad, originaria de la Parada y vecina seis años de este pueblo, hija legitima de Juan Carlos Barza, difunto, y de Maria Antonia Briones, que vive

Hasta pronto,
Austin Perez

DNA Match at last!

AT long last....I have a promising DNA match!

Before I go off researching, I was hoping someone may already have some data on this family.
i am looking for birthdates and parents of:

Comentarios

Comentario

Roy,

I don't know the birthday of your people but theyre on family search and it lists their parents. the baptism of their kids is online and it shows that Vicente del real's parents are Refugio del Real and Antonia Magallanes and Soledad gutierres parents are Vicente Gutierres and Jesus Mota.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-GTQ5-CJ

Refugio del real and Antonia Magallanes got married on May 4th 1836 in tlatenago de Sanchez Roman, Zacatecas

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JZXB-7L2

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Danny,
I've been searching for the film 443972 which was transcribed in the link you provided.
I'm having trouble finding this one, or do I need to order at the FHC?
Thank you,
Roy

Comentario

Hi Roy,

I'm not sure what record you and Danny were working on, but here is the film you're looking for:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-T4V8-P

Chris
From: "rvr_jr@msn.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2016 2:33 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] online document?

Danny, I've been searching for the film 443972 which was transcribed in the
link you provided. I'm having trouble finding this one, or do I need to order
at the FHC? Thank you, Roy

Blas Luna Y Teresa Gutierres

Hola, primos y primas.

I just returned from Tepechitlan Zacatecas.

Comentarios

Comentario

Good News the parents of blas were in the record of baptism of one of their children, bad news they may not be the right names.

Blas de Luna is listed as married to Teresa Gutierrez
parents are AP: Maria del Rosario and Jose Maria Panteleon de Luna
AM: Tomas Gutierrez and Luciana Estrada
in other records Maria del rosario is listed as married to Blas de Luna and Pedro de Luna, Blas records attached but not Pedros then Jose Panteleon is listed with someone else and the gutierrez were wrong. Getting all records and original Images will help you to get the right names and see if it was the priest (familysearch has to send to Mexico where they received their records and it could take forever for correction) If it is Familysearch they may change it if they understand. They told me to just create the right names with correct genders on my grandfather Rafael (Rafaela) married to bentura (listed as male). It was the priest who confused them and then their children putting son married to mother etc.

I have luna married to Delgado as second cousins back in the 1650 haven't done further research. In reseaching a year ago I found an interesting record don't remember if I saved it as I didn't think I had Lunas. This particular Luna was getting married and had Don before his name and was Indian his father was a cacique. I will look to see if I saved it since it was interesting history.

Comentario

I have this family too so appreciate tge conversation :) my question is
about the use of "Don". I have seen it a lot on northern mexico and san
luis potosi records on my husband's side. Thanks!
On Feb 19, 2016 11:34 AM, wrote:

> Good News the parents of blas were in the record of baptism of one of their
> children, bad news they may not be the right names. Blas de Luna is listed
> as
> married to Teresa Gutierrez parents are AP: Maria del Rosario and Jose
> Maria
> Panteleon de Luna AM: Tomas Gutierrez and Luciana Estrada in other records
> Maria del rosario is listed as married to Blas de Luna and Pedro de Luna,
> Blas records attached but not Pedros then Jose Panteleon is listed with
> someone else and the gutierrez were wrong. Getting all records and original
> Images will help you to get the right names and see if it was the priest
> (familysearch has to send to Mexico where they received their records and
> it
> could take forever for correction) If it is Familysearch they may change it
> if they understand. They told me to just create the right names with
> correct
> genders on my grandfather Rafael (Rafaela) married to bentura (listed as
> male). It was the priest who confused them and then their children putting
> son married to mother etc. I have luna married to Delgado as second cousins
> back in the 1650 haven't done further research. In reseaching a year ago I
> found an interesting record don't remember if I saved it as I didn't think
> I
> had Lunas. This particular Luna was getting married and had Don before his
> name and was Indian his father was a cacique. I will look to see if I saved
> it since it was interesting history.
>

Comentario

I have this family too so appreciate tge conversation :) my question is
about the use of "Don". I have seen it a lot on northern mexico and san
luis potosi records on my husband's side. Thanks!
On Feb 19, 2016 11:34 AM, wrote:

> Good News the parents of blas were in the record of baptism of one of their
> children, bad news they may not be the right names. Blas de Luna is listed
> as
> married to Teresa Gutierrez parents are AP: Maria del Rosario and Jose
> Maria
> Panteleon de Luna AM: Tomas Gutierrez and Luciana Estrada in other records
> Maria del rosario is listed as married to Blas de Luna and Pedro de Luna,
> Blas records attached but not Pedros then Jose Panteleon is listed with
> someone else and the gutierrez were wrong. Getting all records and original
> Images will help you to get the right names and see if it was the priest
> (familysearch has to send to Mexico where they received their records and
> it
> could take forever for correction) If it is Familysearch they may change it
> if they understand. They told me to just create the right names with
> correct
> genders on my grandfather Rafael (Rafaela) married to bentura (listed as
> male). It was the priest who confused them and then their children putting
> son married to mother etc. I have luna married to Delgado as second cousins
> back in the 1650 haven't done further research. In reseaching a year ago I
> found an interesting record don't remember if I saved it as I didn't think
> I
> had Lunas. This particular Luna was getting married and had Don before his
> name and was Indian his father was a cacique. I will look to see if I saved
> it since it was interesting history.
>

Comentario

The following are two records with 3 Lunas with the Don and Dona

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-69T7-1X3 there are two Dona Luna on page

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-XXC3-DG8 don juan Luna

From what I have read on the Don and Dona for Indians was that only those that were Indian Royalty could be designated with the Title. I don't know if it later was used for other reasons.

I have asked, read and learned that the term Don/Dona was borrowed from the Italians. During the time of Cortez it was only designated by the King/Queen. Cortez did all he could to get that designation. I don't know when it became in Mexico a designation for the Spanish rich and powerful colonists. I read that once given it went down the line to the children. However, if a Don Hombre married, his wife would become Dona, but if a women married who was a Dona it did not transfer to the husband. In later days of Mexico, wealthy landowners (my grandfather Francisco Cardona and grandmother in the 1880 had the title on their marriage record, though he was a Mulato Libre and was related to the Gaitans who had a long history in Nueva Espana. Today it is given to the elder people. I'm hoping someone with more knowledge on the subject will add, or subtract from my conclusions.

Comentario

sarod,

Don Marcelino de Luna and Dona Bacilia de Luna are native American Chiefs.

Danny C. Alonso

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 8:03 PM, wrote:

> The following are two records with 3 Lunas with the Don and Dona
> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-69T7-1X3 there are two Dona
> Luna
> on page https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-XXC3-DG8 don juan
> Luna
> From what I have read on the Don and Dona for Indians was that only those
> that were Indian Royalty could be designated with the Title. I don't know
> if
> it later was used for other reasons. I have asked, read and learned that
> the
> term Don/Dona was borrowed from the Italians. During the time of Cortez it
> was only designated by the King/Queen. Cortez did all he could to get that
> designation. I don't know when it became in Mexico a designation for the
> Spanish rich and powerful colonists. I read that once given it went down
> the
> line to the children. However, if a Don Hombre married, his wife would
> become
> Dona, but if a women married who was a Dona it did not transfer to the
> husband. In later days of Mexico, wealthy landowners (my grandfather
> Francisco Cardona and grandmother in the 1880 had the title on their
> marriage
> record, though he was a Mulato Libre and was related to the Gaitans who
> had a
> long history in Nueva Espana. Today it is given to the elder people. I'm
> hoping someone with more knowledge on the subject will add, or subtract
> from
> my conclusions.
>

DNA Match at last!

AT long last....I have a promising DNA match!

Before I go off researching, I was hoping someone may already have some data on this family.
i am looking for birthdates and parents of:

Looking for relatives of Julian Covarrubias from the 1700;s

Hello,

Trying to find anyone that is related to Julian Covarrubias who was married to Rafaela Ramirez in the 1700's in Jalisco. thanks

Comentarios

Comentario

My wife and I both descend from the Covarrubias family. We both descend from Pedro Jph Covarrubias but from different wives. My descent is from Juliana Covarrubias.

My wife descends from Juana Maria Covarrubias who was christened on 15/May/1819 in San Miguel el Alto. She was the daughter of Simon Covarrubias and Juana Sixta Margarita De Anda. Juana Maria's paternal grandfather, Pedro Jph Covarrubias was baptized in Guadalajara Jalisco and married to Maria Juliana Lizarrares in Jalostotitlan Jalisco on 6/Jan/1790.

Pedro Jph Covarrubias had previously been married on 30/Jan/1775 in Jalostotitlan Jalisco to Maria Manuela Gonzalez Rubio. They had a daughter named Maria Juliana Covarrubias that was married on 6/June/1793 to Jose Domingo Padilla y Perez de Paredes. Domingo Padilla and Juliana Covarrubias are my ancestors.

Can you provide more information on your Jose Julian Covarruvias married to Maria Rafaela Ramirez? Do you know who their parents are?

R.A Ricci

Comentario

Hello,
I do have Pedro Jose Covarrubias in my family tree even though he is not directly linked to me. Just to clarify, he married Maria Manuela Gonzalez de Hermosillo, not Rubio. Her family is related to me too. Julian Covarrubias and Pedro Jose Covarrubias were second cousins. The parents of Pedro Jose were Jose Antonio Covarrubias and Inez Guadalupe Gomez de Mendoza.

Comentario

It is true that Maria Manuela Gonzalez Rubio was the daughter of Nicolas Hermenegildo Gonzalez de Hermosillo but she also used the surname Gonzalez Rubio because her mother was Maria Antonia Gonzalez Rubio.

I already have my ancestors tree going back to Jose Covarrubias married to Leonor Hermosillo, daughter of Pedro Franco and Leonor Hermosillo. Where does Julian Covarrubias fit in the tree. Who are his parents and grandparents?

R.A.Ricci

FW: Somos Primos January 2014

-----Original Message-----
From: mimilozano@somosprimos.com [mailto:mimilozano@somosprimos.com]
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 11:02 PM
To: undisclosed-recipients:
Subject: Somos Primos January 201

Comentarios

FRANCISCO LOPEZ (DE LA CERDA) AND FRANCISCA DE LOS ANGELES BAPTISMAL RECORD FOR MIGUEL

Maria T.

i think it is the same couple. Miguel lopez de la Cerda married Maria
Magdalena Lozano in 1635 so he probably was born around 1611.

Comentarios