Nuestros Ranchos Site

It reads to me like this:

...a Simon Montaño Espl. y a Maria Nicolasa asimismo Espa. De esta feliga. Entrambos, el dho. en el Boei y la otra en el Siego. haviendo predido sus declarasiones informaon. de libertad i solteria y las demas diligs. Por Dios dispuestas de que no resulto ympedimento ning. canonico. Fueron testigs. Juo. de Dios de Baldibia y Diego de Castañeda vezos. de esta feliga. y otras pers. Padrs. Joseph Migl. Cortes y Josepha Cortes su hermana...

There is no mention of the Parents, they seems to be local but their information for the marriages was taken on this places which I am not sure if I am reading them right "Boei" and "Siego" may be you are more familiar with them.

Message from Alicia Carrillo alliecar@...

Jonathan,   I have only gone to two places in Mexico, to Nochistlan Zac and Tlachichila Zac but did not have any luck in getting access to the actual records. Having said that it was at the beginning of my geneaological journey and in Tlachichila I think and hope that if I come prepared with documentation showing that I am doing verifiable research, I believe I might be allowed access. My cousins still live there and are well connected in the church. Hope as they say is everlasting so I will not lose hope.   I would advise you to be well prepared to present your credentials as a researcher and possibly be willing to pay a small fee or make a small donation to the church, nothing lost in trying. Many times church offices are closed because they have limited financial resources and cannot hire a full time secretary or receptionist. You might find the name of your town on-line, check for a contact name and number and
see if you can call ahead to schedule an appointment.   What towns will you ge going to? Sometimes it is easier in the smaller towns than in the larger ones. Good Luch Jonathan...........Alicia
mexicanfhr wrote:

Hello all,

Have any of you ever done research in the actual Parish in Mexico?

I am asking, because in about 3 weeks, I will be going to Mexico. And
if possible I will try find some information at the parish and
cemetary level.

So could anyone give me some pointers, on what to expect? Or the best
way to approach the subject?

Thanks,
Jonathan

Message from Erlinda Castanon-Long longsjourney@...

Jonathan, my "cemetary" experience in El Durazno was that someone in
each town has a key to the local cemetary, I did not find any that
were open, they were locked. At the older cemetary in Los Haros,
district of Jerez we were lucky that someone was working there and
agreed to let us in, we had to leave when they did. Cemetaries were
not taken care of but the marble monuments were huge and paid for by
relatives from the states who sent money I was told. When we were in
Guadalajara the same was true for the really old cemetaries, someone
had to admit us.
I had no luck finding records in Jerez Zacatecas, El Limon and
Tamazula Jalisco. Clerks were overworked and without copy machines or
time to give us. I had better luck with the records at the FHC.
The trip was still very much worth the time and money, wonderful
people just researching records is not a priorty for them. I asked to
check a marriage ledger from 1920 and was told the public is not
allowed to touch the books.
Good luck in your search, I'm sure the locals will fill you in when
you get there as how to go about getting co-operation each place you
go.
Linda in Everett

Hola primo,

I've tried to use the filters at that site but with little luck. Instead, I'll just select a lugar and a tipo documental, then search through the lists for familiar names. I've had success using this method.

Wish I could tell you more!

Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Gary,
Puedes indicar la localidad de este testamento, para poder mejor ayudarte a localizarlo.

Saludos

Jaime Alvarado

According to the Instituto de Información Estadística y Geográfica it is located in Totatiche. See the Totatiche part of this map - http://iieg.gob.mx/contenido/GeografiaMedioAmbiente/Colotlan_MBase2013…

The Secretaría de Desarrollo Social doesn't have a population for Cuisco http://www.microrregiones.gob.mx/catloc/LocdeMun.aspx?tipo=clave&campo=…

It had a population of 28 in the 1930 Census
http://www.mesarfhc.org/search/censussearch.php?state=JALISCO&municipal…

Daniel,

I think that would be a great idea to get a copy of those documents and
address the topic with Mariano Gonzalez Leal. I think it's about time we
solve this mystery. Or at least rule out certain families as the parents of
Toribio.

Paige

>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 10:12:59 -0700
> From: Daniel Alejandro M?ndez de Torres y Camino
> >
> To: Nuestros Ranchos >
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] TORIBIO HERNANDEZ DE ARELLANO
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Paige,
>
> Toribio's estimated birth year was set at 1530 due to the various
> notorial, wills, birth records, etc that are found in Santa Maria de los
> Lagos and La Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara. I personally do not have these,
> but Mariano Gonzalez Leal has them several copies of them. I can ask if I
> can get a copy or bring up the subject to his attention if you would like.
> Please, remember until there is an actual document that states the day,
> month and year it is not scripture. Priest committed errors, even some
> people it appears did not know what year they were born, etc. Even if the
> record says, he was (i.e. 30) it does not satisfy me until I have a primary
> source. Many people have been trying to connect our ancestors to the royal
> houses of Europe. Many of has have succeeded, but in the case of Toribio
> and Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza. We need documents. We can't simply say, I
> think. We need to get into a habit of using documents. I have found many
> websites with his parents as Juan Fernan
> dez de Hijar, el conde de Belchite. My question is what document do they
> have to prove it? None. Good eye on the his death date, this rules it out.
>
> I am restless of finding people constantly plagiarizing, assuming, and
> posting on these "so-called" genealogical websites. I have been a victim of
> such behavior. I spend hours, studying, analyzing, ordering documents from
> Spain, and then I share it and people pass it off as their own work. And
> then it gets leaked and it appears on these websites, Genenet, Genie,
> Ancestry, etc. Never sourced. I choose to publish my work now before I
> release it.
>
> Daniel MdTC
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 13:43:48 -0700
> From: Mia Montemayor >
> To: "research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org "
> >
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] TORIBIO HERNANDEZ DE ARELLANO
> Message-ID:
> 0ZsH6PRu-G3Trvyw@mail.gmail.com >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hola Page and Daniel,
>
> It's the sites like you mention geni and the others that really confused me
> going back to the 1300s with ancestors of Toribio Hernandez de Arellano.
> When I started I wasn't aware that they had false information and thought
> it must be known information and I was convinced I descended from Cort?s
> and many others. I still think that if you use apellidos like Hurtado de
> Mendoza or Ramirez de Arellano that their must be a connection to those
> ruling houses and would just like to know which line is correct.
>
> Mia
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>

Hola Page and Daniel,

It's the sites like you mention geni and the others that really confused me
going back to the 1300s with ancestors of Toribio Hernandez de Arellano.
When I started I wasn't aware that they had false information and thought
it must be known information and I was convinced I descended from Cortés
and many others. I still think that if you use apellidos like Hurtado de
Mendoza or Ramirez de Arellano that their must be a connection to those
ruling houses and would just like to know which line is correct.

Mia

Mia,

I don't know anything about this topic, but I did have a question. I notice
that in several places on the forum, Toribio Hernandez de Arellano's birth
is said to be 1530; my question is, is that date known or is it just a
guess? Because I looked up Juan Fernandez de Hijar and he died June
29th, 1509, which would be 21 years before Toribio Hernandez de Arellano
was born if 1530 is right.

Hello all,

I was curious what new information is available regarding the ancestry
of Toribio Hernandez de Arellano, the spouse of Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza.
I reviewed many older Nuestros Ranchos forums regarding Toribio and most
say that he's the son of Count Juan Fernandez de Hijar and Isabel de
Arellano. Does anyone know if that's true?

Mia

Real de Asientos was a specific mining town. A real de minas is a mining town.

real2

~ de minas.

1. m. Méx. Pueblo en cuyo distrito hay minas, especialmente de plata.

http://lema.rae.es/drae/srv/search?val=real

A mercader is a merchant.

mercader, ra.

(De mercado, forma del cat. y arag.).

1. m. y f. Persona que trata o comercia con géneros vendibles. Mercader de libros, de hierro.

2. f. coloq. desus. Esposa del mercader.

http://lema.rae.es/drae/?val=mercader

Ronnie,

I looked in Ancestry.com's border crossings and didn't see anything for her parents. She was born in Texas. In the 1900 census the family is all listed as "white". I think in the 1910 census, the interpretation of "ot" might mean "other". I think they probably didn't look "Mexican" to the Anglo enumerator. They are listed as Mexican Spanish, since the Texans think of light skinned Mexicans as "Spanish" and not "Mexican". It looks like they came from Camargo, Chihuahua, and that Matilde had been married before to a Francisco Castillo, and she had a son named Blas Castillo, as well as a daughter Justina born 1897 and another son Juan born 1900 before she had Tranquilina and one other child in Texas from Pedro Vasuez who she married in 1896.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> From: chilerey@msn.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 15:25:59 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Question- Race
>
> Hola Members, I have been playing with my wifes side of the family (with no luck) I found My wifes Grandmother -TRANQUILINA VASQUEZ- in the 1910 census located in El Paso ,Texas . They have Tranquilina at approxitemately 10 years of age . Any way I was tripping because they have her classified as a octoroon(1/8 th black). No big deal just trying to figure out how did the census figure this racial composition . In 1910 they didn't have any DNA testing and didn't know her family backround . I was just trying to figure this out how they did it. I also wanted to know how I access or where to go for immigration or border crossing info so I can obtain where Tranquilina Vasquez was born . (parents -I believe were Pedro Vasquez and Matilde Ceniceros -from Chihuahua)
> Thanks
> Ronnie
>

Thats pretty much all about those "troncos", in this case starts with Nicolas Lozano, then the first generation (primer grado de consanguinidad) are brother and sister; Jose santos and Timotea, their kids, first cousins are Proquinta and Telisfora, their kids, second cousins are Ma. Trinidad and Lorenzo, and the last ones, third cousins, Jose G. and Maria, which in this case they must be the Groom and Bride.

The advantage of this information is that it can take you back a couple of generations even with people who have different last names, like in this case. Also even if the name of the spouses are not given we can a least know their possible last name with their kids, thus Timotea Lozano must have married someone with the Reinaga surname, and so on. Those are a least some extra clues.

Well, It wasn't a genealogical tree, those relationship diagrams where only to point out the "parentesco" and the degree of it. Thus if just one line is at question, all other individuals are left out (unfortunately for us). This information where not meant for the individuals but rather for the ecclesiastical authorities to check, thus they have to simplify it, putting extra information (including the names of the husbands/wifes) could made difficult to understand, something that they would not likely want to bother with.

As a side note the 1st degree are brothers, and goes on from there. Also if there was more than one line of relationship then they would add a diagram for each line.

If you go to any LDS Family History Center you can do these searches on their computers due to the cooperative agreement between Family Search and Ancestry.com.

You will also be able to download any documents you find (you can even e-mail them to yourself).

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Hello Bob,

I too descend from Juan Miguel Lozano and Lorenza Diaz de Sandi and have the following information for 3 of their daughters:

1. Luisa m. Ignacio Bernardo Gonzalez on May 6, 1752 in Teocaltiche. The marriage record states that Luisa is 'originaria de'
el Agostadero.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19052-55616-23?cc=1874591&wc…

2. Ana Gertrudis m. Francisco Lorenzo Perez Gallo on May 10, 1756 in Teocaltiche. The marriage record states Ana to be 'originaria de' la hacienda de Senor San Jose, which is probably the hacienda San Jose de Ajojucar. Ana is also listed with the surname Trillo.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19050-62263-85?cc=1874591&wc…
http://vamonosalbable.blogspot.com/2013/06/la-hacienda-de-san-jose-de-a…

3. Juana Maria aka Juana Maria de los Dolores. baptized Sept 17, 1752 and born Sept. 9, 1752. Juana m. Manuel Victoriano Gonzalez de Hermosilo on October 30, 1775 in Teocaltiche. The marriage record states that Juana was 'originaria de' la hacienda de San Jose [de Ajojucar]. I am uncertain whether this is the daughter of Lorenza Diaz de Sandi, since the marriage record lists Juana's mother as Teresa. Since I can not find a any records for Juan Miguel Lozano and Teresa Diaz, I am assuming that the mother's name was written in error. Juana and Manuel Victoriano are my 5th great grandparents.

Best regards
Austin Perez

Hi,

I'm also descended from the Garcia de Alba family. Specifically from Hernando Garcia de Alba, son of Francisco Garcia de Alba and Casilda de Ortega y Maldonado.

The information on here is great!

-Thanks,

Erika

I am very grateful for my copy. It cost me, no lie, about $14.00 dollars. It's the 1951 edition. The quality of the paper is not that great since it's post WWII paper. The paper looks almost tan. The central public Library in Los Angeles has a copy in the genealogy reference section. I had been photocopying that book until I got my copy.

If you want, shoot me an email on the particular surname that interests you and I will scan those pages that refer. The book has two major sections. The first part deals with Spanish land grants, who inhereted what, sold what to whom, some quotations from last wills and testaments (where the genealogy gems come from). The second part of the book is entitled Bioteca de Occidente Conquistadores y Conquista Fundadores y Fundaciones Pobladores y Plobazones - Incluso lo de Ameca.

P 67 of this second section for Garcia de Alba reads as follows:

GARCIA DE ALBA, CAP. JUAN - Originario de Tecolotlan hijo de Francisco Garcia de Alba y de Casilda de Ortega Y Maldonado. Era vecino de Ameca en 1695 y actuo como apuntador en la medicion del sitio de Amequilla. Caso con Juana Robles Rico, tataranieta de Luis de Ahumada, y uno de sus hijos fue el reverendo Juan Garcia de Alba, sacerdote Jesuita, telogo en Guatemala y autor sagrado. Testo y murio en 1738.

I photocopied the book you are looking for in the early 1990's. It was at the library in Juchitlán, where my family is from. If there is any information you would like from the book I would be more than happy to get it for you.

I also descend from the Garcia de Alba line from Tecolotlán.

Mabel Covarrubias de Doucette

Each of us benefits when we work together--and this is a major find. Thank you for sharing.
I too have this line through Francisco and Casilda's son: Fernando Garcia de Alba and Clara Gusman de Velasco. I checked on this book (Ameca Protofundacion Mexicana; by Jesus Amaya Topete) and it is currently unavailable for sale anywhere, but there is a copy at UC Berkley--I'm not sure if they would allow a loan.

I know that many of us have Garcia de Alba lines and also Gomes, Michel, Dias, Cobian, and others from this area--this information would be extremely helpful.

Thank you
Deedra Corona

I have Francisco Garcia de alba Ruiz married to Mariana Clara Casilda
Ortega Maldonado as parents of Fernando Garcia de Alba Ortega (born 25
april 1671 tecolotlan) that married Clara Guzman, their daughter Clara
Garcia de Alba Guzman married Antonio Cobian on feb 14 1733 in Ejutla they
are my 9th. direct antecesors.

And they are related to the Michel, Santaana, Covian, and serveral other
families in the area...

Do you have the link between Francisco Garcia de Alba and the one you
called his great grand son that I have in my tree.

Let me if I can find that book I am sure I would be very interesting for my
own research!

On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 10:34 AM, wrote:

> While researching the ancestry of my fifth great-grandmother Lorenza de
> Aguilar y García de Alba (born 1740 in Cocula, Jalisco), I discovered that
> she descended through her maternal line from Francisco García de Alba, who
> in 1563, was granted land in Ayutla, Jalisco by the second Viceroy of New
> Spain. According to Jesús Amaya Topete, historian of Ameca, the García de
> Alba family "flooded" places such as Ahualulco, Ameca, Autlán, Ejutla, and
> Tecolotlán and Cocula as well. Francisco García de Alba's great-grandson of
> the same name married Casilda de Ortega Maldonado, who was related to the
> Topete family of Ameca.
> Does anyone also descend from this family?
> I'm also trying to look for the book "Ameca, protofundación mexicana",
> which is the brilliant work of Jesús Amaya Topete, and which contains more
> information on this family. Does anyone know where I could buy it from?

Well I am glad you asked. Joan Angon (Juan Angon) I believe was the grandfather of my 7th generation great grandmother Maria De La Candelaria Angon (1655 - 1735) who was married to my 7th generation great grandfather Antonio Madera (1660 - 1709), where my 7th GG Grandparents resided at Minillas, Mezquitic, Jalisco, Mexico.

I have copies of documents from the cofradia (1632 - 1700) archive of Huejuquilla over the whole span when at first it was always referred to as:

"En La Cofradia De La Limpia Concepcion en la capilla del rancho de Joan De Angon"

Then later on it switches to "En La Cofradia De La Limpia Concepcion en la capilla del rancho de Esteban Angon"

Then the title and name of the rancho switches to Estancia del Rio Chico, which at that time in 1681 it made reference as to the "Estancia Rio Chico que pertenece a dos herederos de Esteban Angon."

One of those herederos is Juana Angon. The other supposedly should be Maria Angon as she appears twice in 1684 as a "Tenanche Mayor" of the Cofradia and in 1685 as a "Tenanche de Arsenal" of the Cofradia.

Every year they elect oficials for that Cofradia which was located in the capilla at the rancho which became Estancia such as:

Prioeste
Mayordomo
Tenanche Mayor
Tenanche Menor
Tenanche De Arsenal
Fiscal
Capitana

When that rancho changed name to Estancia Rico Chico, the capilla also was referred to as capilla con titulo San Antonio.

The Estancia Rio Chico then changed named to "Hacienda Santa Rosa," which stands today. But in 1702, the husband of Juana Angon "Gregorio de Junquera" sold the Hacienda to "Gaspar Benito de Larranaga"

Maria De La Candelaria Angon and Antonio Madera showed up in Minillas, Mezquitic, Jalisco. The early document I have of them is 1686 in Mezquitic, Jalisco, Mexico. I guess Maria Angon moved over from where Rio Chico is to Minillas.

I have a question? Do you have any pictures of Rio Chico/Hacienda Santa Rosa?

It originally started out as a rancho de joan de angon which appears in catholic records in 1633