thanks Emilie,,i thought i would find some asian,,I looooove anything Japanese,,Maya is even better,,from our own country,,it is believed that atotonilco el alto was mostly Purepeche Indians so i pose
Hi,,I would like to know if anyone knows of any books that might contain images of mexican indians..i know there are quite a few of mayan and aztec indians.how about purepeche ?,,chichimecas ??
You can check on the CDI page (Comisión Nacional para el desarrollo de los pueblos Indígenas):
http://www.cdi.gob.mx/
Their Atlas:
http://www.cdi.gob.mx/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=…
Their Monographies:
http://www.cdi.gob.mx/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=54&…
Their Photo gallery:
http://www.cdi.gob.mx/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=20
Victoriano Navarro
Hola Primos, me gustaria contactar con descendientes de Juan Jose Campos Gutierrez y de Maria Refugio Gutierrez Padilla (El Tule), ellos estaban afincados en el rancho El Tule hacia los años 1865, tu
thank you very much,,i dont know how to reach them other than using the forum..so i hope they dont get upset at me
________________________________
From: "research-request@lists.nuestrosranch
Hi one and all,,,i finally uploaded my family tree to rootsweb,,,,,so now how do i uploaded here....
Ask one of the administrators to create a Family Tree in Gedcom for you.
Then after that is done, go to Gedcom section and down under the search engines, select "administration" and it'll bring you to the upload area and select the options that you want and upload your GEDCOM file from your computer. Wait a few minutes then you'll see a bunch of computer symbols, and you're done!
Jose Carlos de Leon
http://www.crewcampmgmt.com/wp-content/themes/twentyten/likeit.php?bloc…
Researching: Romero, Hallstead/Halstead, Davis, Hamm, Buell, Beltz, Chandler, Burgess, Hitchcock, de la Torre,
Hello everyone. I've had a brickwall on my direct paternal line for years and I'm looking all over the place for clues.
I think it says "de Albiaso". On Familysearch I found some people listed with that surname (also spelled Albiazo) in Totatiche, Jalisco in the 1820's and 1830's, Guadalajara in the 1740's and Bolaños, Jalisco in the 1810's.
Best regards,
Victoriano Navarro
Locations of Research Interest: La Hacienda San Antonio de Sauceda,San
Antonio Saucedo,Fresillo, Valparaiso,Zacatecas
Surnames Researching: Esteinou
Hello Nuestros Rancheros!
go: https://familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A//familysearch… next look for the record.. marriage, or birth... and the village and date..
Thank you so much for your help. It is greatly appreciated.
Juanita Henniger
The following is from my father's birth record...
If I understand it correctly, my father is half Native American.
Can someone please translate this and confirm what I think I'm reading?
Roy,
As I understand it, it says,
* que es primero en su estado, meaning being the first in his state or condition
* siendo sus progenitores de raza indigena - his progenitors being of an indigenous race
* blanco y mejicanos por nacimiento - white and Mexicans through birth
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca
________________________________
From: "rvr_jr@msn.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 1:13 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help me understand the race notation.
The following is from my father's birth record...
If I understand it correctly, my father is half Native American.
Can someone please translate this and confirm what I think I'm reading?
"Jose Rogaciano del Real hijo natural del comparente y de Maria Dolores Villasenor, de veinticinco anos, que es el primero en su estado, sindo sus progenitores de raza indigeno blanco y mexicanos por nacimient."
The actual document is posted in my folder if looking at the original will help.
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/UncleRelic
Thanks in advance,
Roy
Thank you Alica,
I guess I should get my DNA tested to termine which line is indigenous.
Roy
Roy,
I have a Nuestros Ranchos cousin, Juan Aguayo who had his admixture DNA done, you might want to consult with him. I think he used Family Tree DNA when they had the special rate going.
Remember, the scribes are not always correct in what they note on the records, so take this as an initial discovery but keep searching for corroborating facts and data with siblings, aunts, uncles grandparents etc.
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca
________________________________
From: "rvr_jr@msn.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help me understand the
Thank you Alica,
I guess I should get my DNA tested to termine which line is indigenous.
Roy
Alicia,
I am already looking at FamilyTreeDNA (Y-DNA37+mtDNAPlus).
My father told me on numerous occasions that we had Indian, Spanish, and French blood. He just didn't know the details.
I only recently started tracing my father's line, so I know there's a long road ahead.
Thanks again,
Roy
Here are a couple of links to help understand haplogroups:
Wikipedia Haplogroup Q1a3a1(Y-DNA
and another here:
www.familytreedna.com
Topete
It is very doubtful you have French blood. There is a persistent false myth
that French blood exists in high quantities in our area of research (Nueva
Galicia) due to the large number of güeros with blond or red hair and blue
or green eyes and the French intervention in Mexico, as if there weren't
Spaniards that have those characteristics and the people in our area didn't
already look like that. Apart from that there is no proof whatsoever of the
people of the French intervention mixing with the people of Nueva Galicia
and many güeros have documented ancestry going back many centuries before
the French intervention. That isn't to say you don't or can't have French
blood from an immigrant but the likelihood is probably about a 2% chance.
You might be able to save a little by getting the FamilyTreeDNA
(Y-DNA37+mtDNAPlus) through the Mexico DNA group project
http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Mexico-DNA
Saludos,
Armando
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 11:26 PM, wrote:
> Alicia,
> I am already looking at FamilyTreeDNA (Y-DNA37+mtDNAPlus).
>
> My father told me on numerous occasions that we had Indian, Spanish, and
> French blood. He just didn't know the details.
>
> I only recently started tracing my father's line, so I know there's a long
> road ahead.
> Thanks again,
>
> Roy
my Castanon family is from the district of Jerez, Zac and I was also told we had French blood so the elders were a bit put off when I found no French lineage but Mulato, Spanish and Yndio.. they insisted there had never been any black slaves in Jerez.. people don't always like what our research shows them. I felt previleged to share the blood of the history of Mexico but not everyone will feel that way.
On a side not Mande was what was always said to the grandparents.
Linda in B.C.
________________________________
From: Armando
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2012 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help me understand the
It is very doubtful you have French blood. There is a persistent false myth
that French blood exists in high quantities in our area of research (Nueva
Galicia) due to the large number of güeros with blond or red hair and blue
or green eyes and the French intervention in Mexico, as if there weren't
Spaniards that have those characteristics and the people in our area didn't
already look like that. Apart from that there is no proof whatsoever of the
people of the French intervention mixing with the people of Nueva Galicia
and many güeros have documented ancestry going back many centuries before
the French intervention. That isn't to say you don't or can't have French
blood from an immigrant but the likelihood is probably about a 2% chance.
You might be able to save a little by getting the FamilyTreeDNA
(Y-DNA37+mtDNAPlus) through the Mexico DNA group project
http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Mexico-DNA
Saludos,
Armando
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 11:26 PM, wrote:
> Alicia,
> I am already looking at FamilyTreeDNA (Y-DNA37+mtDNAPlus).
>
> My father told me on numerous occasions that we had Indian, Spanish, and
> French blood. He just didn't know the details.
>
> I only recently started tracing my father's line, so I know there's a long
> road ahead.
> Thanks again,
>
> Roy
Hello,
That is hilarious. My elders also said we had a french background when my geneology research show that we go back several generations in Tlatenango (to 1600's or before) and sourrounding areas and that our ancesters were mainly Spanish. They were also very upset to find out we had Spanish blood and insited no one was Spanish.
Go figure.
Pauline
-----Original Message-----
>From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
>Sent: Jul 5, 2012 4:01 PM
>To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
>Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help me understand the
>
>my Castanon family is from the district of Jerez, Zac and I was also told we had French blood so the elders were a bit put off when I found no French lineage but Mulato, Spanish and Yndio.. they insisted there had never been any black slaves in Jerez.. people don't always like what our research shows them. I felt previleged to share the blood of the history of Mexico but not everyone will feel that way.
>On a side not Mande was what was always said to the grandparents.
>Linda in B.C.
>
>
>________________________________
> From: Armando
>To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2012 2:34 PM
>Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help me understand the
>
>It is very doubtful you have French blood. There is a persistent false myth
>that French blood exists in high quantities in our area of research (Nueva
>Galicia) due to the large number of güeros with blond or red hair and blue
>or green eyes and the French intervention in Mexico, as if there weren't
>Spaniards that have those characteristics and the people in our area didn't
>already look like that. Apart from that there is no proof whatsoever of the
>people of the French intervention mixing with the people of Nueva Galicia
>and many güeros have documented ancestry going back many centuries before
>the French intervention. That isn't to say you don't or can't have French
>blood from an immigrant but the likelihood is probably about a 2% chance.
>
>You might be able to save a little by getting the FamilyTreeDNA
>(Y-DNA37+mtDNAPlus) through the Mexico DNA group project
>http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Mexico-DNA
>
>
>Saludos,
>Armando
>
>On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 11:26 PM, wrote:
>
>> Alicia,
>> I am already looking at FamilyTreeDNA (Y-DNA37+mtDNAPlus).
>>
>> My father told me on numerous occasions that we had Indian, Spanish, and
>> French blood. He just didn't know the details.
>>
>> I only recently started tracing my father's line, so I know there's a long
>> road ahead.
>> Thanks again,
>>
>> Roy
Armando,
Within the last month, I have discovered more about my father's family than anyone would have guessed. Regretably, he is no longer with us to know of these things.
I went ahead and joined the Felix group and ordered the DNA kit (Y-DNA37+mtDNAPlus).
When the Family Finder goes on sale, I'll will also order that.
Not to offend anyone, but I'm totally indifferent to having any French heritage. Whatever is...is. I've traced my maternal family back to the 1400's in Italy, so it would be great to ultimately find my paternal family in Spain in the same timeframe.
As a new member of NR, I am quite impressed with the level of knowledge, sharing, and committment of yourself and fellow members. Having said that, I would appreciate hearing from anyone with information on a del Real line from Tlaltenanco de Sanchez Roman. My early research has my paternal lineage back to Ignacio del Real, married to Lucia Valenzuela, born around 1825-1830. Parents of Don Bernardo del Real, born 1849 and married to Maria Isabel Caballero on 21Aug1883.
Saludos,
Roy
Let us know your results when they come in. Once you get your Y-DNA
haplogroup you can have a subclade test done which will provide you a less
generalized area and time for what group you belong to. Family Finder might
help you but in a generalized sense.
I've been wanting to create a Genealogy 101 for NR. Something we do when we
first start is fail to realize that the baptisms post 1800 will have the
abuelos a majority of the time. Another thing to take into consideration is
that some people were just as mobile as we are today. Just because your
studies have taken you to Zacatecas doesn't mean it is the only place you
will find what you are looking for. For example Ygnacio Del Real, Lucia
Valenzuela had a child in Jalisco. Abuelos Paternos Don Felis del Real and
Doña Gertrudis Herrera.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18455-32968-35?cc=1874591&wc…
think the name Felis is a mistake and it is really Felipe since there
is
a couple named Felipe del Real and Gertrudis Herrera in Jalisco in the time
frame that fits.
The following user submitted tree shows the full names are Felipe del Real
Valenzuela and Maria Gertrudis Herrera Sanchez married 28 May 1801 Santo
Thomas, Momax, Zacatecas https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/SBPY-Q97
The parents are Antonio del Real and Maria or Maria Ana Valenzuela who had
children in Colotlán, Jalisco
Something else that should be part of the Geneaology 101 is to find all of
the baptisms and marriages of anyone with the same last name and annotate
the padrinos. Don't just concentrate on your direct line. You can gain info
on your own ancestrors from trees of distant relatives. Review all of the
baptisms, marriages, and información matrimonial records and record the
information. The información matrimonial records are a valuable tool and
since they haven't been indexed they have to be looked at a page at a time
and sometimes are in the wrong volume.
There are several people with the Real surname that had a dispensa follow
the link http://www.guadalajaradispensas.com/search?q=real use ctrl+F and
search for real.
If you can't find anymore records hopefully you find a DNA match with
someone that has a longer paper trail than you.
I try to educate everyone that brings up this French myth that the vast
majority of the time it is false and widespread without much basis. I'm not
concerned about whether people are indifferent to the myth or not. I'm
concerned with people spreading falsehoods.
By the way if you are the person that said you never learned Spanish it is
never too late to try and you have more opportunities now than ever with it
being so ubiquitous.
Saludos,
Armando
On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 11:57 PM, wrote:
> Armando,
> Within the last month, I have discovered more about my father's family
> than anyone would have guessed. Regretably, he is no longer with us to
> know of these things.
>
> I went ahead and joined the Felix group and ordered the DNA kit
> (Y-DNA37+mtDNAPlus).
> When the Family Finder goes on sale, I'll will also order that.
>
> Not to offend anyone, but I'm totally indifferent to having any French
> heritage. Whatever is...is. I've traced my maternal family back to the
> 1400's in Italy, so it would be great to ultimately find my paternal family
> in Spain in the same timeframe.
> As a new member of NR, I am quite impressed with the level of knowledge,
> sharing, and committment of yourself and fellow members. Having said that,
> I would appreciate hearing from anyone with information on a del Real line
> from Tlaltenanco de Sanchez Roman. My early research has my paternal
> lineage back to Ignacio del Real, married to Lucia Valenzuela, born around
> 1825-1830. Parents of Don Bernardo del Real, born 1849 and married to
> Maria Isabel Caballero on 21Aug1883.
>
> Saludos,
> Roy
>
>
Armando and other Nuestros Ranchos Members:
Why do you think so many people perpetuate the myth that they're French or have French lineage? I simply cannot understand the why. I know I've heard it said by some people in our family and when I tell people that I've done some genealogical research, inevitably this comes up and they say that they are descended from the French. I hear it all the time and I've even alienated some people when I give them a few facts as to the short time period in which the French occupied Mexico and that it's simply not possible or very unlikely that they could be French.
The British, French and Spanish arrived in Mexico during the Mexican reform period beginning in October of 1861 because Presidente Juarez had refused to pay Mexico's foreign debts.
The French first occupied Puebla, and were defeated on 5 de Mayo of 1862, hence el Cinco de Mayo. The following May, the French again attacked Puebla, then proceeded to Mexico City where they took over the government. Maximilian was asked to accept the Mexican Crown for the French, which he did in accordance with Napolean's plans and wishes. Maximilian arrived in 1864 with his wife Carlota and In 1866, Napolean began recalling the French troops from Mexico. In 1867, Maximilan was tried and executed in Mexico.
So the French were in Mexico from 1861 to 1867. I'm curious to hear what people's thoughts are on this issue of so many people claiming they are French in Mexico.
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca
________________________________
actually I did find 2 marriages in Jerez, Zac for former French soldiers marrying women from Jerez.. So there are 2 families with French blood in Jerez one who did have children there.
Linda in B.C.
________________________________
From: Alicia Carrillo
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 1:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
Armando and other Nuestros Ranchos Members:
Why do you think so many people perpetuate the myth that they're French or have French lineage? I simply cannot understand the why. I know I've heard it said by some people in our family and when I tell people that I've done some genealogical research, inevitably this comes up and they say that they are descended from the French. I hear it all the time and I've even alienated some people when I give them a few facts as to the short time period in which the French occupied Mexico and that it's simply not possible or very unlikely that they could be French.
The British, French and Spanish arrived in Mexico during the Mexican reform period beginning in October of 1861 because Presidente Juarez had refused to pay Mexico's foreign debts.
The French first occupied Puebla, and were defeated on 5 de Mayo of 1862, hence el Cinco de Mayo. The following May, the French again attacked Puebla, then proceeded to Mexico City where they took over the government. Maximilian was asked to accept the Mexican Crown for the French, which he did in accordance with Napolean's plans and wishes. Maximilian arrived in 1864 with his wife Carlota and In 1866, Napolean began recalling the French troops from Mexico. In 1867, Maximilan was tried and executed in Mexico.
So the French were in Mexico from 1861 to 1867. I'm curious to hear what people's thoughts are on this issue of so many people claiming they are French in Mexico.
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca
________________________________
I found one in Jalpa Zac, named Blondell but to date, I have not found any in Nochistlan where a heavy battle was waged in 1864.
________________________________
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
actually I did find 2 marriages in Jerez, Zac for former French soldiers marrying women from Jerez.. So there are 2 families with French blood in Jerez one who did have children there.
Linda in B.C.
________________________________
From: Alicia Carrillo
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 1:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
Armando and other Nuestros Ranchos Members:
Why do you think so many people perpetuate the myth that they're French or have French lineage? I simply cannot understand the why. I know I've heard it said by some people in our family and when I tell people that I've done some genealogical research, inevitably this comes up and they say that they are descended from the French. I hear it all the time and I've even alienated some people when I give them a few facts as to the short time period in which the French occupied Mexico and that it's simply not possible or very unlikely that they could be French.
The British, French and Spanish arrived in Mexico during the Mexican reform period beginning in October of 1861 because Presidente Juarez had refused to pay Mexico's foreign debts.
The French first occupied Puebla, and were defeated on 5 de Mayo of 1862, hence el Cinco de Mayo. The following May, the French again attacked Puebla, then proceeded to Mexico City where they took over the government. Maximilian was asked to accept the Mexican Crown for the French, which he did in accordance with Napolean's plans and wishes. Maximilian arrived in 1864 with his wife Carlota and In 1866, Napolean began recalling the French troops from Mexico. In 1867, Maximilan was tried and executed in Mexico.
So the French were in Mexico from 1861 to 1867. I'm curious to hear what people's thoughts are on this issue of so many people claiming they are French in Mexico.
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca
________________________________
What is the surname of these French in Jerez?
Emilie
> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 07:38:31 -0700
> From: longsjourney@yahoo.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
>
> actually I did find 2 marriages in Jerez, Zac for former French soldiers marrying women from Jerez.. So there are 2 families with French blood in Jerez one who did have children there.
> Linda in B.C.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Alicia Carrillo
> To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
> Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 1:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
>
> Armando and other Nuestros Ranchos Members:
>
> Why do you think so many people perpetuate the myth that they're French or have French lineage? I simply cannot understand the why. I know I've heard it said by some people in our family and when I tell people that I've done some genealogical research, inevitably this comes up and they say that they are descended from the French. I hear it all the time and I've even alienated some people when I give them a few facts as to the short time period in which the French occupied Mexico and that it's simply not possible or very unlikely that they could be French.
>
>
> The British, French and Spanish arrived in Mexico during the Mexican reform period beginning in October of 1861 because Presidente Juarez had refused to pay Mexico's foreign debts.
>
>
> The French first occupied Puebla, and were defeated on 5 de Mayo of 1862, hence el Cinco de Mayo. The following May, the French again attacked Puebla, then proceeded to Mexico City where they took over the government. Maximilian was asked to accept the Mexican Crown for the French, which he did in accordance with Napolean's plans and wishes. Maximilian arrived in 1864 with his wife Carlota and In 1866, Napolean began recalling the French troops from Mexico. In 1867, Maximilan was tried and executed in Mexico.
>
> So the French were in Mexico from 1861 to 1867. I'm curious to hear what people's thoughts are on this issue of so many people claiming they are French in Mexico.
>
>
> Alicia,
> San Jose, Ca
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
marriagedispensation requested 10 June 1871 in Jerez, Zac
Don Cleofas (Nicolas) Roux from Paris, Francia in Mexico 8 years in la Labor 4 years
single age 32
parents: Juan Bautista Roux and Margarita Maxima Tissaran both deceased
with Dona Martina Salinas from Jerez single age 16
parents: Don Franco M. Salinas and Dona Carmen de Avila both living
wit: Don Carmen Cooper from U.S. Married age 55 Doctor
wit: Patricio Orosco from Jerez widower age 32 barber
wit: Luis Barral from France now in Jerez married age 32 comerciante who was in the same batallion, Cazadores de Africa and terminated service at the same time.
passport shows landing in Mazatlan 17 Feb 1866
dispensation of bans
source: Jerez marriage dispensations 1865-1875
.
#2
marriage dispensation requested 11 June 1869 in Jerez, Zac
Don Luis Barral single age 30 from St. Aupre, France
parents: Don Luis Barral and Dona Maria Parent both deceased
with Ma. Del Pilar Torres from Jerez single age 18
parents: Don Sostenes Torres and Dona Pioquinta Acevedo both living
wit: Don Manuel Llamas from Jerez single age 22 comerciante
wit: Juan Marquez from hacienda de Cuidado married age 41 labrador
wit: Pedro Salazar from Jerez married age 34 panadero
,
dispensation because he is from another place
Luis said he was in the military and in Mexico for 6 years living in hacineda del Cuidado for two years
Jerez marriage dispensations 1869-1870
________________________________
From: Emilie Garcia
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
What is the surname of these French in Jerez?
Emilie
> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 07:38:31 -0700
> From: longsjourney@yahoo.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
>
> actually I did find 2 marriages in Jerez, Zac for former French soldiers marrying women from Jerez.. So there are 2 families with French blood in Jerez one who did have children there.
> Linda in B.C.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Alicia Carrillo
> To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
> Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 1:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
>
> Armando and other Nuestros Ranchos Members:
>
> Why do you think so many people perpetuate the myth that they're French or have French lineage? I simply cannot understand the why. I know I've heard it said by some people in our family and when I tell people that I've done some genealogical research, inevitably this comes up and they say that they are descended from the French. I hear it all the time and I've even alienated some people when I give them a few facts as to the short time period in which the French occupied Mexico and that it's simply not possible or very unlikely that they could be French.
>
>
> The British, French and Spanish arrived in Mexico during the Mexican reform period beginning in October of 1861 because Presidente Juarez had refused to pay Mexico's foreign debts.
>
>
> The French first occupied Puebla, and were defeated on 5 de Mayo of 1862, hence el Cinco de Mayo. The following May, the French again attacked Puebla, then proceeded to Mexico City where they took over the government. Maximilian was asked to accept the Mexican Crown for the French, which he did in accordance with Napolean's plans and wishes. Maximilian arrived in 1864 with his wife Carlota and In 1866, Napolean began recalling the French troops from Mexico. In 1867, Maximilan was tried and executed in Mexico.
>
> So the French were in Mexico from 1861 to 1867. I'm curious to hear what people's thoughts are on this issue of so many people claiming they are French in Mexico.
>
>
> Alicia,
> San Jose, Ca
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
Nuestros Ranchos Members:There were also individuals born in France, but who came to Mexico (sometimes via Spain) before and after the French Intervention. One example is Ángel Navarro, French-born leading Spanish settler in New Spain. My husband also has a gr gr gr gr grandmother (Maria Iturbide) from France who married a Basque man and they imigrated to Guanajuato, Mexico years after the French invasion. Their reason for immigrating was to join family who were already well established in the area. The following article discusses French immigration to Mexico, how many actually came, where they immigrated from, where they immigrated to, and notable Mexicans with French ancestry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_immigration_to_Mexico Here is also a French genealogy blog that discusses French immigration to Mexico (even before the French Intervention): http://french-genealogy.typepad.com/genealogie/2012/01/french-immigrant…
> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 07:38:31 -0700
> From: longsjourney@yahoo.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
>
> actually I did find 2 marriages in Jerez, Zac for former French soldiers marrying women from Jerez.. So there are 2 families with French blood in Jerez one who did have children there.
> Linda in B.C.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Alicia Carrillo
> To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
> Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 1:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
>
> Armando and other Nuestros Ranchos Members:
>
> Why do you think so many people perpetuate the myth that they're French or have French lineage? I simply cannot understand the why. I know I've heard it said by some people in our family and when I tell people that I've done some genealogical research, inevitably this comes up and they say that they are descended from the French. I hear it all the time and I've even alienated some people when I give them a few facts as to the short time period in which the French occupied Mexico and that it's simply not possible or very unlikely that they could be French.
>
>
> The British, French and Spanish arrived in Mexico during the Mexican reform period beginning in October of 1861 because Presidente Juarez had refused to pay Mexico's foreign debts.
>
>
> The French first occupied Puebla, and were defeated on 5 de Mayo of 1862, hence el Cinco de Mayo. The following May, the French again attacked Puebla, then proceeded to Mexico City where they took over the government. Maximilian was asked to accept the Mexican Crown for the French, which he did in accordance with Napolean's plans and wishes. Maximilian arrived in 1864 with his wife Carlota and In 1866, Napolean began recalling the French troops from Mexico. In 1867, Maximilan was tried and executed in Mexico.
>
> So the French were in Mexico from 1861 to 1867. I'm curious to hear what people's thoughts are on this issue of so many people claiming they are French in Mexico.
>
>
> Alicia,
> San Jose, Ca
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
This group is for serious genealogists actively searching for lineages in
the states of Jalisco, Zacatecas and Aguascalientes.
Also, a lot of people have lost sight of what has caused this discussion to
come about and the reason behind it. There are hundreds, maybe even
thousands, of people with ancestry in Jalisco, Zacatecas and Aguascalientes
that are told they have French ancestry but when their family trees are
seriously researched there isn't a single French ancestor in the past 400
years and wouldn't matter if 10 million French had immigrated to Jalisco,
Zacatecas and Aguascalientes.
Respectfully,
Armando
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Leni Rivera wrote:
>
> Nuestros Ranchos Members:There were also individuals born in France, but
> who came to Mexico (sometimes via Spain) before and after the French
> Intervention. One example is Ángel Navarro, French-born leading Spanish
> settler in New Spain. My husband also has a gr gr gr gr grandmother (Maria
> Iturbide) from France who married a Basque man and they imigrated to
> Guanajuato, Mexico years after the French invasion. Their reason for
> immigrating was to join family who were already well established in the
> area. The following article discusses French immigration to Mexico, how
> many actually came, where they immigrated from, where they immigrated to,
> and notable Mexicans with French ancestry:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_immigration_to_Mexico Here is also a
> French genealogy blog that discusses French immigration to Mexico (even
> before the French Intervention):
> http://french-genealogy.typepad.com/genealogie/2012/01/french-immigrant…
> > Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 07:38:31 -0700
> > From: longsjourney@yahoo.com
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
> >
> > actually I did find 2 marriages in Jerez, Zac for former French soldiers
> marrying women from Jerez.. So there are 2 families with French blood in
> Jerez one who did have children there.
> > Linda in B.C.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Alicia Carrillo
> > To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
> > Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 1:41 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
> >
> > Armando and other Nuestros Ranchos Members:
> >
> > Why do you think so many people perpetuate the myth that they're French
> or have French lineage? I simply cannot understand the why. I know I've
> heard it said by some people in our family and when I tell people that I've
> done some genealogical research, inevitably this comes up and they say that
> they are descended from the French. I hear it all the time and I've even
> alienated some people when I give them a few facts as to the short time
> period in which the French occupied Mexico and that it's simply not
> possible or very unlikely that they could be French.
> >
> >
> > The British, French and Spanish arrived in Mexico during the Mexican
> reform period beginning in October of 1861 because Presidente Juarez had
> refused to pay Mexico's foreign debts.
> >
> >
> > The French first occupied Puebla, and were defeated on 5 de Mayo of
> 1862, hence el Cinco de Mayo. The following May, the French again attacked
> Puebla, then proceeded to Mexico City where they took over the government.
> Maximilian was asked to accept the Mexican Crown for the French, which he
> did in accordance with Napolean's plans and wishes. Maximilian arrived in
> 1864 with his wife Carlota and In 1866, Napolean began recalling the French
> troops from Mexico. In 1867, Maximilan was tried and executed in Mexico.
> >
> > So the French were in Mexico from 1861 to 1867. I'm curious to hear what
> people's thoughts are on this issue of so many people claiming they are
> French in Mexico.
> >
> >
> > Alicia,
> > San Jose, Ca
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
?????
> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 16:50:24 -0500
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
>
> This group is for serious genealogists actively searching for lineages in
> the states of Jalisco, Zacatecas and Aguascalientes.
>
> Also, a lot of people have lost sight of what has caused this discussion to
> come about and the reason behind it. There are hundreds, maybe even
> thousands, of people with ancestry in Jalisco, Zacatecas and Aguascalientes
> that are told they have French ancestry but when their family trees are
> seriously researched there isn't a single French ancestor in the past 400
> years and wouldn't matter if 10 million French had immigrated to Jalisco,
> Zacatecas and Aguascalientes.
>
> Respectfully,
> Armando
>
> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Leni Rivera wrote:
>
> >
> > Nuestros Ranchos Members:There were also individuals born in France, but
> > who came to Mexico (sometimes via Spain) before and after the French
> > Intervention. One example is Ángel Navarro, French-born leading Spanish
> > settler in New Spain. My husband also has a gr gr gr gr grandmother (Maria
> > Iturbide) from France who married a Basque man and they imigrated to
> > Guanajuato, Mexico years after the French invasion. Their reason for
> > immigrating was to join family who were already well established in the
> > area. The following article discusses French immigration to Mexico, how
> > many actually came, where they immigrated from, where they immigrated to,
> > and notable Mexicans with French ancestry:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_immigration_to_Mexico Here is also a
> > French genealogy blog that discusses French immigration to Mexico (even
> > before the French Intervention):
> > http://french-genealogy.typepad.com/genealogie/2012/01/french-immigrant…
> > > Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 07:38:31 -0700
> > > From: longsjourney@yahoo.com
> > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
> > >
> > > actually I did find 2 marriages in Jerez, Zac for former French soldiers
> > marrying women from Jerez.. So there are 2 families with French blood in
> > Jerez one who did have children there.
> > > Linda in B.C.
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Alicia Carrillo
> > > To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
> > > Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 1:41 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
> > >
> > > Armando and other Nuestros Ranchos Members:
> > >
> > > Why do you think so many people perpetuate the myth that they're French
> > or have French lineage? I simply cannot understand the why. I know I've
> > heard it said by some people in our family and when I tell people that I've
> > done some genealogical research, inevitably this comes up and they say that
> > they are descended from the French. I hear it all the time and I've even
> > alienated some people when I give them a few facts as to the short time
> > period in which the French occupied Mexico and that it's simply not
> > possible or very unlikely that they could be French.
> > >
> > >
> > > The British, French and Spanish arrived in Mexico during the Mexican
> > reform period beginning in October of 1861 because Presidente Juarez had
> > refused to pay Mexico's foreign debts.
> > >
> > >
> > > The French first occupied Puebla, and were defeated on 5 de Mayo of
> > 1862, hence el Cinco de Mayo. The following May, the French again attacked
> > Puebla, then proceeded to Mexico City where they took over the government.
> > Maximilian was asked to accept the Mexican Crown for the French, which he
> > did in accordance with Napolean's plans and wishes. Maximilian arrived in
> > 1864 with his wife Carlota and In 1866, Napolean began recalling the French
> > troops from Mexico. In 1867, Maximilan was tried and executed in Mexico.
> > >
> > > So the French were in Mexico from 1861 to 1867. I'm curious to hear what
> > people's thoughts are on this issue of so many people claiming they are
> > French in Mexico.
> > >
> > >
> > > Alicia,
> > > San Jose, Ca
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
While it's true what is rare, often is desired, I have come across a couple of incidences where the French could have been involved. Researching the Archivos Historicos Municipal de Aguascalientes, I've come across several entries from 1865 to 1867 as follows: "Orden de pago por el tiempo que fue ocupada por una fuerza francesa la casa/hacienda de..." It wouldn't take long for soldiers to get around. Secondly, there's the Basque that originated from regions of Spain and France, yet often claim autonomy. One of my Basque lines originated in the Aquitaine in France, yet on his 1776 burial entry, it simply claims, "Europeo", not Frances or Espanol. Go figure. Alice
--- On Fri, 7/6/12, Alicia Carrillo wrote:
From: Alicia Carrillo
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Date: Friday, July 6, 2012, 8:41 AM
Armando and other Nuestros Ranchos Members:
Why do you think so many people perpetuate the myth that they're French or have French lineage? I simply cannot understand the why. I know I've heard it said by some people in our family and when I tell people that I've done some genealogical research, inevitably this comes up and they say that they are descended from the French. I hear it all the time and I've even alienated some people when I give them a few facts as to the short time period in which the French occupied Mexico and that it's simply not possible or very unlikely that they could be French.
The British, French and Spanish arrived in Mexico during the Mexican reform period beginning in October of 1861 because Presidente Juarez had refused to pay Mexico's foreign debts.
The French first occupied Puebla, and were defeated on 5 de Mayo of 1862, hence el Cinco de Mayo. The following May, the French again attacked Puebla, then proceeded to Mexico City where they took over the government. Maximilian was asked to accept the Mexican Crown for the French, which he did in accordance with Napolean's plans and wishes. Maximilian arrived in 1864 with his wife Carlota and In 1866, Napolean began recalling the French troops from Mexico. In 1867, Maximilan was tried and executed in Mexico.
So the French were in Mexico from 1861 to 1867. I'm curious to hear what people's thoughts are on this issue of so many people claiming they are French in Mexico.
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca
________________________________
Since we're on the topic of the French and their sometimes exaggerated
influence in Mexico I also want to shed some light on how many believe the
myth that French gave rise to Mariachi music in Mexico. Many mariachi
musicians, to this day, themselves believe that this is true, but it is
not. I’ll first share a little story about my friend Jonathan Clark, a very
well respected mariachi musician and historian.
While in college in the bay area I had the pleasure of working with
Jonathan, a guero from San Jose, Ca. if I remember correctly. Jonathan
started a “guero” Mariachi at San Jose State in the 70s. They played at
many local venues and began to take their playing seriously. Jonathan
organized a trip to Guadalajara to expand their knowledge about mariachi
music and to immerse themselves in the culture of the land of mariachis. He
had always heard of plaza Garibaldi in Mexico City and decided to still
travel there by himself even though he fail to convince his other mariachi
friends to take a trip there from Guadalajara. When he arrived at the Plaza
Garibaldi he approached a guitarronero and asked him where he could
purchase guitarron strings for his instrument. The mariachi laughed at him
and said that a guero couldn’t play the guitarron. Jonathan took the
mariachis’ guitarron and began to play a few lines of music. The mariachi
was astonished and said he knew of a mariachi that need a guitarronero that
night and that if Jonathan was interested he would introduce him to the
mariachi. Jonathan hesitantly agreed and played with the mariachi ensemble
that night. To make a long story short, Jonathan called his friends in
Guadalajara letting them know he was not returning back home with them.
Since Jonathan was making a life changing decision he took his mariachi
studies seriously and ended up staying in Mexico City for many years. He
became a student of Natividad “Nati” Santiago of El Mariachi Vargas de
Tecalitlan, who many consider to be the best guitarron player of all time.
In 1997 Mariachi Vargas wanted to establish a Mariachi museum in their
name. They asked amongst themselves who was the most knowledgeable in not
only their history, but mariachi history in general, and Jonathan’s name
was at the top of the list. Through their mariachi connections they found
Jonathan back home in San Jose and he helped Mariachi Vargas set up their
museum. The following excerpt is taken from Jonathan’s website which echos
what he told me about the mariachi Myth around 15 years ago while I was one
of his students.
“The origin of the word “mariachi” has been a subject of controversy.
Legend erroneously has it that mariachi is a corruption of the French word
mariage. The popular belief is that during their occupation of Mexico in
the 19th century, the French contracted the services of local musical
groups for weddings, thus giving them their name. Scholars have long
disagreed with this explanation, insisting the word was of indigenous
origin and that any similarity with the French word was mere coincidence.
However, because there was no concrete proof to support either theory, the
controversy continued for decades until the discovery of an important
document in 1981.
In a letter to his bishop dated 1852, Father Cosme Santa Anna denounced the
drunkenness, gambling, and disorderly conduct associated with the mariachis
across from his church in Rosamorada, Nayarit. The priest described his
attempts to stop the festivities and how he personally took the instruments
away from the musicians! This was the first historical evidence that the
word mariachi was in use before the French invasion of Mexico in the 1860s.
Shortly after its discovery, the text of this document was published in
Mexico City and Los Angeles, and should have laid to rest the mariage
theory once and for all. However, old myths die hard, and the public at
large and most mariachi musicians themselves continue believing that this
uniquely Mexican music owes its name to a foreign source.”
For those interested in Mariachi history you can visit Jonathan’s mariachi
page which is still under construction:
http://mariachihistory.com/index.htmle
I hope you enjoy the story, but more importantly the truth about mariachi
music.
Juan Aguayo
On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Alice Blake wrote:
> While it's true what is rare, often is desired, I have come across a
> couple of incidences where the French could have been involved.
> Researching the Archivos Historicos Municipal de Aguascalientes, I've come
> across several entries from 1865 to 1867 as follows: "Orden de pago por el
> tiempo que fue ocupada por una fuerza francesa la casa/hacienda de..." It
> wouldn't take long for soldiers to get around. Secondly, there's the
> Basque that originated from regions of Spain and France, yet often claim
> autonomy. One of my Basque lines originated in the Aquitaine in France,
> yet on his 1776 burial entry, it simply claims, "Europeo", not Frances or
> Espanol. Go figure. Alice
>
> --- On Fri, 7/6/12, Alicia Carrillo wrote:
>
>
> From: Alicia Carrillo
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
> To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
> Date: Friday, July 6, 2012, 8:41 AM
>
>
> Armando and other Nuestros Ranchos Members:
>
> Why do you think so many people perpetuate the myth that they're French or
> have French lineage? I simply cannot understand the why. I know I've heard
> it said by some people in our family and when I tell people that I've done
> some genealogical research, inevitably this comes up and they say that they
> are descended from the French. I hear it all the time and I've even
> alienated some people when I give them a few facts as to the short time
> period in which the French occupied Mexico and that it's simply not
> possible or very unlikely that they could be French.
>
>
> The British, French and Spanish arrived in Mexico during the Mexican
> reform period beginning in October of 1861 because Presidente Juarez had
> refused to pay Mexico's foreign debts.
>
>
> The French first occupied Puebla, and were defeated on 5 de Mayo of 1862,
> hence el Cinco de Mayo. The following May, the French again attacked
> Puebla, then proceeded to Mexico City where they took over the government.
> Maximilian was asked to accept the Mexican Crown for the French, which he
> did in accordance with Napolean's plans and wishes. Maximilian arrived in
> 1864 with his wife Carlota and In 1866, Napolean began recalling the French
> troops from Mexico. In 1867, Maximilan was tried and executed in Mexico.
>
> So the French were in Mexico from 1861 to 1867. I'm curious to hear what
> people's thoughts are on this issue of so many people claiming they are
> French in Mexico.
>
>
> Alicia,
> San Jose, Ca
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
Thanks Primo,
I truly enjoyed the article. My father was one who loved Mariachi Vargas' sones and to this day whenever I hear a son such as La Culebra or el Gavilancillo I only like it with Mariachi Vargas and it reminds me of my dad.
Alicia
________________________________
From: Juan Aguayo
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
Since we're on the topic of the French and their sometimes exaggerated
influence in Mexico I also want to shed some light on how many believe the
myth that French gave rise to Mariachi music in Mexico. Many mariachi
musicians, to this day, themselves believe that this is true, but it is
not. I’ll first share a little story about my friend Jonathan Clark, a very
well respected mariachi musician and historian.
While in college in the bay area I had the pleasure of working with
Jonathan, a guero from San Jose, Ca. if I remember correctly. Jonathan
started a “guero” Mariachi at San Jose State in the 70s. They played at
many local venues and began to take their playing seriously. Jonathan
organized a trip to Guadalajara to expand their knowledge about mariachi
music and to immerse themselves in the culture of the land of mariachis. He
had always heard of plaza Garibaldi in Mexico City and decided to still
travel there by himself even though he fail to convince his other mariachi
friends to take a trip there from Guadalajara. When he arrived at the Plaza
Garibaldi he approached a guitarronero and asked him where he could
purchase guitarron strings for his instrument. The mariachi laughed at him
and said that a guero couldn’t play the guitarron. Jonathan took the
mariachis’ guitarron and began to play a few lines of music. The mariachi
was astonished and said he knew of a mariachi that need a guitarronero that
night and that if Jonathan was interested he would introduce him to the
mariachi. Jonathan hesitantly agreed and played with the mariachi ensemble
that night. To make a long story short, Jonathan called his friends in
Guadalajara letting them know he was not returning back home with them.
Since Jonathan was making a life changing decision he took his mariachi
studies seriously and ended up staying in Mexico City for many years. He
became a student of Natividad “Nati” Santiago of El Mariachi Vargas de
Tecalitlan, who many consider to be the best guitarron player of all time.
In 1997 Mariachi Vargas wanted to establish a Mariachi museum in their
name. They asked amongst themselves who was the most knowledgeable in not
only their history, but mariachi history in general, and Jonathan’s name
was at the top of the list. Through their mariachi connections they found
Jonathan back home in San Jose and he helped Mariachi Vargas set up their
museum. The following excerpt is taken from Jonathan’s website which echos
what he told me about the mariachi Myth around 15 years ago while I was one
of his students.
“The origin of the word “mariachi” has been a subject of controversy.
Legend erroneously has it that mariachi is a corruption of the French word
mariage. The popular belief is that during their occupation of Mexico in
the 19th century, the French contracted the services of local musical
groups for weddings, thus giving them their name. Scholars have long
disagreed with this explanation, insisting the word was of indigenous
origin and that any similarity with the French word was mere coincidence.
However, because there was no concrete proof to support either theory, the
controversy continued for decades until the discovery of an important
document in 1981.
In a letter to his bishop dated 1852, Father Cosme Santa Anna denounced the
drunkenness, gambling, and disorderly conduct associated with the mariachis
across from his church in Rosamorada, Nayarit. The priest described his
attempts to stop the festivities and how he personally took the instruments
away from the musicians! This was the first historical evidence that the
word mariachi was in use before the French invasion of Mexico in the 1860s.
Shortly after its discovery, the text of this document was published in
Mexico City and Los Angeles, and should have laid to rest the mariage
theory once and for all. However, old myths die hard, and the public at
large and most mariachi musicians themselves continue believing that this
uniquely Mexican music owes its name to a foreign source.”
For those interested in Mariachi history you can visit Jonathan’s mariachi
page which is still under construction:
http://mariachihistory.com/index.htmle
I hope you enjoy the story, but more importantly the truth about mariachi
music.
Juan Aguayo
On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Alice Blake wrote:
> While it's true what is rare, often is desired, I have come across a
> couple of incidences where the French could have been involved.
> Researching the Archivos Historicos Municipal de Aguascalientes, I've come
> across several entries from 1865 to 1867 as follows: "Orden de pago por el
> tiempo que fue ocupada por una fuerza francesa la casa/hacienda de..." It
> wouldn't take long for soldiers to get around. Secondly, there's the
> Basque that originated from regions of Spain and France, yet often claim
> autonomy. One of my Basque lines originated in the Aquitaine in France,
> yet on his 1776 burial entry, it simply claims, "Europeo", not Frances or
> Espanol. Go figure. Alice
>
> --- On Fri, 7/6/12, Alicia Carrillo wrote:
>
>
> From: Alicia Carrillo
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
> To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
> Date: Friday, July 6, 2012, 8:41 AM
>
>
> Armando and other Nuestros Ranchos Members:
>
> Why do you think so many people perpetuate the myth that they're French or
> have French lineage? I simply cannot understand the why. I know I've heard
> it said by some people in our family and when I tell people that I've done
> some genealogical research, inevitably this comes up and they say that they
> are descended from the French. I hear it all the time and I've even
> alienated some people when I give them a few facts as to the short time
> period in which the French occupied Mexico and that it's simply not
> possible or very unlikely that they could be French.
>
>
> The British, French and Spanish arrived in Mexico during the Mexican
> reform period beginning in October of 1861 because Presidente Juarez had
> refused to pay Mexico's foreign debts.
>
>
> The French first occupied Puebla, and were defeated on 5 de Mayo of 1862,
> hence el Cinco de Mayo. The following May, the French again attacked
> Puebla, then proceeded to Mexico City where they took over the government.
> Maximilian was asked to accept the Mexican Crown for the French, which he
> did in accordance with Napolean's plans and wishes. Maximilian arrived in
> 1864 with his wife Carlota and In 1866, Napolean began recalling the French
> troops from Mexico. In 1867, Maximilan was tried and executed in Mexico.
>
> So the French were in Mexico from 1861 to 1867. I'm curious to hear what
> people's thoughts are on this issue of so many people claiming they are
> French in Mexico.
>
>
> Alicia,
> San Jose, Ca
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
Alicia,
I think it is because people in Mexico heard that French had "settled" there, not knowing the true history. They equate blue eyes only with the "recent" foreigners and not their own Spanish ancestors.
My father could have killed me when we stopped for lunch and gas in a small village back in the 1960s on our way to Jerez. I noticed that many of the people there were dark, but had blue eyes. I very impertently asked the dark, blue eyed gas station attendant "porque tantos aqui estan prietos con hojos azules?" (God, what a dumb question, but I was so curious, and young and dumb). He just smiled and said, "los franceses vinieron aqui". My father dressed me up and down for that, but I got an answer that satifsfied me at the time. Now I know better.
Emilie
> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 01:41:32 -0700
> From: alliecar@pacbell.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] French or not?
>
> Armando and other Nuestros Ranchos Members:
>
> Why do you think so many people perpetuate the myth that they're French or have French lineage? I simply cannot understand the why. I know I've heard it said by some people in our family and when I tell people that I've done some genealogical research, inevitably this comes up and they say that they are descended from the French. I hear it all the time and I've even alienated some people when I give them a few facts as to the short time period in which the French occupied Mexico and that it's simply not possible or very unlikely that they could be French.
>
>
> The British, French and Spanish arrived in Mexico during the Mexican reform period beginning in October of 1861 because Presidente Juarez had refused to pay Mexico's foreign debts.
>
>
> The French first occupied Puebla, and were defeated on 5 de Mayo of 1862, hence el Cinco de Mayo. The following May, the French again attacked Puebla, then proceeded to Mexico City where they took over the government. Maximilian was asked to accept the Mexican Crown for the French, which he did in accordance with Napolean's plans and wishes. Maximilian arrived in 1864 with his wife Carlota and In 1866, Napolean began recalling the French troops from Mexico. In 1867, Maximilan was tried and executed in Mexico.
>
> So the French were in Mexico from 1861 to 1867. I'm curious to hear what people's thoughts are on this issue of so many people claiming they are French in Mexico.
>
>
> Alicia,
> San Jose, Ca
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
Armando,
Thank you for the links - it led me to my 3rd and 4th Great Grandparents.
I have now identified two lines of Valenzuela females that married del Real males.
A Genealogy tutorial sounds like a great idea. Sign me up!
Regretably, I had no idea I was "perpetuating the myth" of French ancestry. My father was told that as a child and had no reason to disbelieve it.
My DNA results will certainly be shared when received.
Saludos,
Roy
p.s. I am working on my Spanish.
Armando,
Over the past few years there have been numerous inquiries regarding French relations within Jalisco/Mexico in our genealogy searches. You and several others have often replied that there was little to no influence. I was very interested because some merchants in my family came from Jalisco, and the stories say that in addition to our Spanish ancestry, we also had French ancestry in Mexico. I have have found some French connections in Mexico, but not in Jalisco. When I visited Guadalajara a few years ago, I was surprised to see so many fabric stores and department stores in the downtown area. Surely the Barcelonnettes had a touch in these, but there are few accounts of the French in the Jalisco church records for the 1800's to early 1900's. Many of the Barcelonnettes were known to have returned to their homes in France to retire, but they also married and had children in Mexico.
In my research I have found quite a bit about the Barcelonnette's Mexican connection. They owned textile plants, dry goods stores, department stores, large banks and manufacturing plants. Today the French have large communities in Monterrey, Mexico City, San Luis Potosi, Puebla and suppposedly in Guadalajara. Every August the Vallée de l’Ubaye, France celebrates its historic links with Mexico in a Latino-Mexican festival. The following is from the website www.mountainpassions.com/summer/summer_activities/ubaye_festival_mexic
"The Arnaud brothers (who pioneered the emigration) arrived in Mexico in 1818, and within fifty years owned numerous shops, a network of sales representatives in every country and outlets in Europe. Their success attracted friends and family from Ubaye to cross the Atlantic and join their compatriots. Little by little, the new entrepreneurs became industrialists rather than shopkeepers, and controlled the textile industry in Mexico. They also built up a solid financial structure and established numerous banking institutions, even putting their signature at the foot of bank notes."
The most interesting website is www.webs2002.uab.es/dep-economia-empresa/documents/04-2.pdf This site is "The Barcelonnettes: An Example of Network-Entrepreneurs in XIX Century Mexico. An Explanation Based on a Theroy of Bounded Rational Choice with Social Embeddedness", by Gonzalo Castaneda from the Department de Economia Universidad de las Americas, Puebla.
You can also find the Barcelonnettes on Wikipedia.com, including the article "French Immigration to Mexico" where I found the following information:
The number of French Immigrants to Mexico during the years 1857-1976.
1857–1860 = 578
1861–1870 = 4,292
1871–1880 = 10,706
1881–1890 = 69,363
1891–1900 = 11,395
1901–1910 = 11,862
1911–1920 = 1,352
1921–1930 = 739
1931–1940 = 626
1941–1950 = 5,538
1951–1960 = 934
1961–1970 = 1,266
1971–1976 = 85
Total 116,032
Regards, Judith Marentes
Children of Pedro and Mateana:
spouse:Matiana Sandatechild:Maria Epifania Valdezname:Maria Epifania Valdezgender:Femalebaptism/christening date:15 Apr 1902baptism/christening place:Nuestra S
Hello,
I hope someone can help me find more information.
I found a record for my grandparents
San Juan de Dios es una Iglesia o parroquia que esta en Guadalajara en la
Calzada independencia y creo que Avenida Javier Mina muy cerca de la plaza
de los mariachis. y tambien esta cerca del templo de Analco.
2012/7/28
> Hello,
>
> I hope someone can help me find more information.
> I found a record for my grandparents
> (https://familysearch.org/pal:**/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18380-28269-28?**
> cc=1874591&wc=12241307)
> marriage and am trying to get more info on the grooms parents. The record
> reads "Luis Medina...originario de (?San?) Juan de Dios y vecino de esta
> parroquia desde la infancia" . I would like to research his parents in
> those church records but am unsure where to begin, I beleive he was born in
> Mex. DF but can't find a parish called San Juan de Dios in those records.
> Does anyone know where this parish is or have advice on searching for
> Francisco or Rafaela Lopes de Medina
>
> Thank you!
> Monica Ochoa
>
> Hola,
>
> Ojala que alguien me puede ayudar a encontrar más información.
>
> He encontrado un registro de mis abuelos
> (https://familysearch.org/pal:**/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18380-28269-28?**
> cc=1874591&wc=12241307)
> matrimonio y estoy tratando de obtener más información sobre los padres de
> el novio, Luis Medina. El registro dice: "Luis Medina ... originario de (?
> San?) Juan de Dios y vecino de ESTA parroquia Desde La Infancia". Me
> gustaría investigar a sus padres en los registros de la iglesia, pero no
> estoy segura por dónde empezar, yo creo que nació en Mex. DF, pero no puedo
> encontrar una parroquia se llama San Juan de Dios en esos registros.
>
> ¿Alguien sabe donde esta parroquia es, o pueden consejar sobre la búsqueda
> de Francisco o Rafaela Lopes de Medina
>
> ¡Gracias!
> Mónica Ochoa
>
Muchisimas gracias Marta!
Porque sabía que mi abuelo era de el DF pese que a la mejor estaba colocado la vicaria em la capital. Gracia por la información.
Saludos,
Monica Ochoa
espero y te sirva
el link
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18380-28269-28?cc=1874591&wc…
%2Frecords%2Fwaypoint%2F12503239%3Fcc%3D1874591
Javier González López Portillo
Muchas gracias por la información se lo agradezco!
Saludos,
Monica Ochoa
Hola Monica.
El templo de San Juan de Dios se ubica a solo 1 kilometro al norte del de San Jose Analco. De hecho el mercado Libertad ubicado a unos cuantos metros del primero, es conocidísimo como "el Mercado de San Juan de Dios", el mercado techado mas grande de latinoamerica.
Aqui un mapa
http://goo.gl/Lod0S
Lo que das fructifica. Lo que te guardas se pudre.
Miguel Beltran
Gracias Miguel!
Usted siempre eres tan generoso con su tiempo y gran cantidad de información. Estoy muy agradecida! Por cuanta de mi mamá sabía que mi abuelo era de el DF por eso pese que a la mejor estaba localizado la vicaria en la capital. Gracia por la información.
Agradecidamente,
Monica Ochoa
Has anyone in the group had any success in finding any records for Juan Aldama, Zacatecas, prior to 1860?
Or has anyone in the group been researching in the Juan Aldama records?
always a day late and a dollar short,,records from ayo are missing altogether ?? or have they not been indexed yet ??
I was researching Arch de la Parr. de Pinos, Zacatecas 1790-1803, listed as Castas....
Esther I can be there at 10 tomorrow August 4?
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 3, 2012, at 3:09 PM, research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:
> Send Research mailing list submissions to
>
The book "The Encomenderos of New Spain 1521-1555" only lists in the index a
Diego de San Martin and a Pedro de San Martin. Neither is a compound name
with "Estrada."
Stella Cardoza
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 3:10 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Research Digest, Vol 79, Issue 3
Send Research mailing list submissions to
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Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
DAILY DIGEST
****************************************
Today's Topics:
1. San Martin Y Estrada (eltobias2003@hotmail.com)
2. Re: San Martin Y Estrada (MMG8938@aol.com)
3. Re: San Martin Y Estrada (MMG8938@aol.com)
4. Re: San Martin Y Estrada (MMG8938@aol.com)
5. Re: San Martin Y Estrada (MMG8938@aol.com)
6. Bonita library (anisabel_7@hotmail.com)
7. Re: Bonita library (Esther Jordan)
8. Re: Ayo El Chico, Jalisco (mygenes2000@yahoo.com)
9. San Martin Y Estrada (eltobias2003@hotmail.com)
10. Yniguez Sandoval (blankinship2@suddenlink.net)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 17:03:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: eltobias2003@hotmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] San Martin Y Estrada
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
I am looking for someone that is willing to look up the surname San Martin Y
Estrada in two books:"The Econmenderos of New Spain 1521-1555" by Robert
Himmerich y Valencia and "Cartas Privadas de Emigrantes a Indias 1540-1616"
by Otte Enrique. Your help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 20:58:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: MMG8938@aol.com
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] San Martin Y Estrada
Message-ID: <24d95.3e3b4649.3d4c7c1a@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Hi
What are the names?
Mickey
In a message dated 8/2/2012 7:04:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
eltobias2003@hotmail.com writes:
I am looking for someone that is willing to look up the surname San Martin
Y Estrada in two books:"The Econmenderos of New Spain 1521-1555" by Robert
Himmerich y Valencia and "Cartas Privadas de Emigrantes a Indias 1540-1616"
by Otte Enrique. Your help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Anisabel, I will be there at 10 a.m. tomorrow. How far do you have to
travel to the library? and could you add me to your email addresses so
that we don't take space here.
Thanks, Esther
esther@enhanced.org
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 4:00 PM, Anisabel Santamaria
wrote:
> Esther I can be there at 10 tomorrow August 4?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 3, 2012, at 3:09 PM, research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgwrote:
>
> > Send Research mailing list submissions to
> > research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >
> http://lists.nuestrosranchos.org/listinfo.cgi/research-nuestrosranchos…
> >
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > research-owner@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Research digest..."
> >
> >
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > DAILY DIGEST
> > ****************************************
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. San Martin Y Estrada (eltobias2003@hotmail.com)
> > 2. Re: San Martin Y Estrada (MMG8938@aol.com)
> > 3. Re: San Martin Y Estrada (MMG8938@aol.com)
> > 4. Re: San Martin Y Estrada (MMG8938@aol.com)
> > 5. Re: San Martin Y Estrada (MMG8938@aol.com)
> > 6. Bonita library (anisabel_7@hotmail.com)
> > 7. Re: Bonita library (Esther Jordan)
> > 8. Re: Ayo El Chico, Jalisco (mygenes2000@yahoo.com)
> > 9. San Martin Y Estrada (eltobias2003@hotmail.com)
> > 10. Yniguez Sandoval (blankinship2@suddenlink.net)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 17:03:25 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: eltobias2003@hotmail.com
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] San Martin Y Estrada
> > Message-ID:
> > &nid=20842&pid=0&cid=&uid=5582&tid=&
> a44879fe303dd43ad3f90d288329c039@www.nuestrosranchos.org>
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> >
> > I am looking for someone that is willing to look up the surname San
> Martin Y Estrada in two books:"The Econmenderos of New Spain 1521-1555" by
> Robert Himmerich y Valencia and "Cartas Privadas de Emigrantes a Indias
> 1540-1616" by Otte Enrique. Your help would be appreciated. Thanks in
> advance.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 20:58:02 -0400 (EDT)
> > From: MMG8938@aol.com
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] San Martin Y Estrada
> > Message-ID: <24d95.3e3b4649.3d4c7c1a@aol.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >
> > Hi
> > What are the names?
> > Mickey
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 8/2/2012 7:04:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> > eltobias2003@hotmail.com writes:
> >
> > I am looking for someone that is willing to look up the surname San
> Martin
> > Y Estrada in two books:"The Econmenderos of New Spain 1521-1555" by
> Robert
> > Himmerich y Valencia and "Cartas Privadas de Emigrantes a Indias
> > 1540-1616" by Otte Enrique. Your help would be appreciated. Thanks in
> advance.
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 20:59:40 -0400 (EDT)
> > From: MMG8938@aol.com
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] San Martin Y Estrada
> > Message-ID: <24e30.53fee57b.3d4c7c7c@aol.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >
> > Hi
> > The Encomenderos has a Diego, and a Pedro.
> > Mickey
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 8/2/2012 7:04:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> > eltobias2003@hotmail.com writes:
> >
> > I am looking for someone that is willing to look up the surname San
> Martin
> > Y Estrada in two books:"The Econmenderos of New Spain 1521-1555" by
> Robert
> > Himmerich y Valencia and "Cartas Privadas de Emigrantes a Indias
> > 1540-1616" by Otte Enrique. Your help would be appreciated. Thanks in
> advance.
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 21:02:44 -0400 (EDT)
> > From: MMG8938@aol.com
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] San Martin Y Estrada
> > Message-ID: <24f30.3dce043f.3d4c7d34@aol.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 8/2/2012 7:04:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> > eltobias2003@hotmail.com writes:
> >
> > I am looking for someone that is willing to look up the surname San
> Martin
> > Y Estrada in two books:"The Econmenderos of New Spain 1521-1555" by
> Robert
> > Himmerich y Valencia and "Cartas Privadas de Emigrantes a Indias
> > 1540-1616" by Otte Enrique. Your help would be appreciated. Thanks in
> advance.
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 21:03:28 -0400 (EDT)
> > From: MMG8938@aol.com
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] San Martin Y Estrada
> > Message-ID: <24f70.3c76ffbe.3d4c7d60@aol.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >
> > Hi Again
> > In the Cartas book there is not a San Martin y Estrada listed. Anymore?
> > Mickey
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 8/2/2012 7:04:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> > eltobias2003@hotmail.com writes:
> >
> > I am looking for someone that is willing to look up the surname San
> Martin
> > Y Estrada in two books:"The Econmenderos of New Spain 1521-1555" by
> Robert
> > Himmerich y Valencia and "Cartas Privadas de Emigrantes a Indias
> > 1540-1616" by Otte Enrique. Your help would be appreciated. Thanks in
> advance.
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 18:23:14 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: anisabel_7@hotmail.com
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bonita library
> > Message-ID:
> > &nid=20831&pid=0&cid=24028&uid=5242&tid=
> 2&5429ee06a43acc595a923e46cd0b69b9@www.nuestrosranchos.org>
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> >
> > Is the library open tomorrow? And if so what time? Thanks so much!
> >
> > Anisabel Santamaria
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 19:06:28 -0700
> > From: Esther Jordan
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bonita library
> > Message-ID:
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > It is not, however, if you give me a time I may be there for a couple of
> > hours. Esther
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 6:23 PM, wrote:
> >
> >> Is the library open tomorrow? And if so what time? Thanks so much!
> >>
> >> Anisabel Santamaria
> >> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>
> >> To post, send email to:
> >> research(at)NuestrosRanchos.**com
> >>
> >> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 8
> > Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 01:13:45 -0700
> > From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> > To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayo El Chico, Jalisco
> > Message-ID:
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >
> > Plan c is to look at tepatitlan as I found some Ayo el Chico ancestors
> would go to tepatitlan for some baptisms and marriages
> > R A Ricci
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Jul 31, 2012, at 11:42 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
> >
> >> Esther, thank you so much. I appreciate the offer, but I don't even
> have a definite date or place for the marriage of Juan Manuel Arrambide and
> Ynes Rosalia Sandoval. I'm searching for Juan Manuel's parents to see if
> he's a brother or son of Martin Arrambide.The earliest of five children
> that I have found was Ma Josefa de Jesus, born in 1777 to the last Jose
> Bartolome de Jesus in 1788 all born in Ayo El Chico. Thanks to Emilie's
> help, I've found all five baptismal entries, but no grandparents are named.
> So now trying to come up with Plan B. Thank you again, Alice
> >>
> >> --- On Wed, 8/1/12, Esther Jordan wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Esther Jordan
> >> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayo El Chico, Jalisco
> >> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> >> Date: Wednesday, August 1, 2012, 2:58 AM
> >>
> >>
> >> Alice, The Bonita Library where I work has many films from Ayo El
> Chico.
> >> If you have some names and birth dates I could look them up tomorrow.
> >> -Esther Jordan Lopez
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Emilie Garcia
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Hi, Alice,
> >>>
> >>> that place is now called Ayotlan.
> >>>
> >>> Emilie
> >>> Port Orchard, WA
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 14:23:49 -0700
> >>>> From: alicebb@att.net
> >>>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> >>>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayo El Chico, Jalisco
> >>>>
> >>>> Hello Everyone,
> >>>> Could someone please tell me if late 1700's church records for Ayo El
> >>> Chico, Jalisco are available online? I've been unable to locate them
> using
> >>> that name. Thanks so much for your help. Alice
> >>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>>>
> >>>> To post, send email to:
> >>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>>>
> >>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >>>
> >>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>>
> >>> To post, send email to:
> >>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>>
> >>> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >>>
> >> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>
> >> To post, send email to:
> >> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>
> >> To post, send email to:
> >> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 9
> > Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 13:36:25 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: eltobias2003@hotmail.com
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] San Martin Y Estrada
> > Message-ID:
> > &nid=20842&pid=0&cid=24031&uid=5582&tid=
> 2&9cc0bd6541b52d4d7961c7ca9bc3a1a0@www.nuestrosranchos.org>
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> >
> > Wow, thank you very much for the prompt response. Your help is really
> appreciated. My oldest ancestor is Antonio San Martin Y Estrada married
> first to Ana de Lamas O Saucedo and then to Josefa Tello de Orozco.
> Antonio and Ana had three kids: Antonio, Francisco, and Antonia.
> >
> > Again, thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 10
> > Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 14:35:10 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: blankinship2@suddenlink.net
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Yniguez Sandoval
> > Message-ID:
> > &nid=18403&pid=0&cid=24032&uid=6111&tid=
> 2&c1592ced291d93a5d377f1634a01f687@www.nuestrosranchos.org>
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> >
> > I believe that we may be tracking one of the same family lines. I know
> for a fact that my great-grandfather, Hilario de Jesus Castaneda, was born
> in San Jose, Moyahua (1867) to a Manuel Castaneda and a Secundina Yniguez.
> I have found information about Hilario Castaneda that shows his maternal
> grandparents listed as Antonio Iniguez and Josefa Sandoval. The way I
> figure it, Secundina may have been Inez's sister.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> >
> >
> > End of Research Digest, Vol 79, Issue 3
> > ***************************************
> >
I thought the Bonita location no longer houses films? I've been looking for information on el tuito and tomatlan.
Is the library open tomorrow? And if so what time? Thanks so much!
Anisabel Santamaria
It is not, however, if you give me a time I may be there for a couple of
hours. Esther
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 6:23 PM, wrote:
> Is the library open tomorrow? And if so what time? Thanks so much!
>
> Anisabel Santamaria
Hello,
True the Library in Bonita is more like a branch library but we do have
many films from Ayotlan, Ayo El Chico and other Jalisco films. We are open
Wednesdays at 3:00 p.m. Diane Godinez is there right now if you wish to go.
-Esther
On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Anisabel Santamaria
wrote:
> I thought the Bonita location no longer houses films? I've been looking
> for information on el tuito and tomatlan. Thanka
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 1, 2012, at 3:07 PM, research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgwrote:
>
> > Send Research mailing list submissions to
> > research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
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> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > DAILY DIGEST
> > ****************************************
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: Ayo El Chico, Jalisco (Esther Jordan)
> > 2. Re: Ayo El Chico, Jalisco (Alice Blake)
> > 3. Re: Ayo El Chico, Jalisco (Alice Blake)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 19:58:12 -0700
> > From: Esther Jordan
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayo El Chico, Jalisco
> > Message-ID:
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > Alice, The Bonita Library where I work has many films from Ayo El Chico.
> > If you have some names and birth dates I could look them up tomorrow.
> > -Esther Jordan Lopez
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Emilie Garcia
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Hi, Alice,
> >>
> >> that place is now called Ayotlan.
> >>
> >> Emilie
> >> Port Orchard, WA
> >>
> >>
> >>> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 14:23:49 -0700
> >>> From: alicebb@att.net
> >>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> >>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayo El Chico, Jalisco
> >>>
> >>> Hello Everyone,
> >>> Could someone please tell me if late 1700's church records for Ayo El
> >> Chico, Jalisco are available online? I've been unable to locate them
> using
> >> that name. Thanks so much for your help. Alice
> >>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>>
> >>> To post, send email to:
> >>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>>
> >>> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>
> >> To post, send email to:
> >> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 23:28:49 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Alice Blake
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayo El Chico, Jalisco
> > Message-ID:
> > <1343802529.49567.YahooMailClassic@web184404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> > Thank you so much, Emilie.? I'll get to?work.? Alice
> >
> > --- On Tue, 7/31/12, Emilie Garcia wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Emilie Garcia
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayo El Chico, Jalisco
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Date: Tuesday, July 31, 2012, 9:39 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi, Alice,
> >
> > that place is now called Ayotlan.
> >
> > Emilie
> > Port Orchard, WA
> >
> >
> >> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 14:23:49 -0700
> >> From: alicebb@att.net
> >> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> >> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayo El Chico, Jalisco
> >>
> >> Hello Everyone,
> >> Could someone please tell me if late 1700's church records for Ayo El
> Chico, Jalisco are available online?? I've been unable to locate them using
> that name.???Thanks so much for your help.???Alice
> >> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>
> >> To post, send email to:
> >> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > ??? ???????? ?????? ??? ?
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 23:42:20 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Alice Blake
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayo El Chico, Jalisco
> > Message-ID:
> > <1343803340.22586.YahooMailClassic@web184401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> > ?Esther, thank you so much.? I appreciate the offer, but I don't
> even?have a definite date or place?for the marriage of Juan Manuel
> Arrambide and Ynes Rosalia Sandoval.? I'm searching for Juan Manuel's
> parents to see if he's a brother or son of Martin Arrambide.The earliest of
> five?children that I have found was Ma Josefa de Jesus,?born in 1777 to the
> last Jose Bartolome de Jesus in 1788?all born in Ayo El Chico.? Thanks to
> Emilie's help, I've found all five baptismal entries, but no grandparents
> are named.? So now trying to come up with?Plan B.? Thank you again,?
> Alice??????
> >
> > --- On Wed, 8/1/12, Esther Jordan wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Esther Jordan
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayo El Chico, Jalisco
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Date: Wednesday, August 1, 2012, 2:58 AM
> >
> >
> > Alice,? The Bonita Library where I work has many films from Ayo El Chico.
> > If you have some names and birth dates I could look them up tomorrow.
> > -Esther Jordan Lopez
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Emilie Garcia
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Hi, Alice,
> >>
> >> that place is now called Ayotlan.
> >>
> >> Emilie
> >> Port Orchard, WA
> >>
> >>
> >>> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 14:23:49 -0700
> >>> From: alicebb@att.net
> >>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> >>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayo El Chico, Jalisco
> >>>
> >>> Hello Everyone,
> >>> Could someone please tell me if late 1700's church records for Ayo El
> >> Chico, Jalisco are available online?? I've been unable to locate them
> using
> >> that name.???Thanks so much for your help.???Alice
> >>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>>
> >>> To post, send email to:
> >>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>>
> >>> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>
> >> To post, send email to:
> >> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> >
> >
> > End of Research Digest, Vol 79, Issue 1
> > ***************************************
> >
Just an FYI that the DVD for "The Storm That Swept Mexico" is being sold on pbs.org.
This is boring for most members but I have not been able to decipher most of the information in the following that is discouraging at first because images of torn and faded pages make it extremely use
ESPERO TE AYUDE EN ALGO, LO QUE ENTIENDO ES QUE ELLA PIDE SE HAGA LA SEPARACIÓN LEGAL CON LA IGLESIA Y LOS CARGOS SON QUE SU ESPOSO YA NO ESTÁ CON ELLA DESDE HACE 20 AÑOS Y NO DOCE Y QUE ELLA TUVO UN HIJO Y DESPUES OTROS PERO NO CON SU ESPOSO, Y QUE SU ESPOSO INTENTÓ MATARLA POR SU INFIDELIDAD Y QUE PREFIERE NO SABER NADA Y QUE SI ELLA QUIERE LA SEPARACIÓN VA A SER POR ELLA Y SI SE LA ACEPTA LA IGLESIA.SI LO QUIERES TODO LO QUE DICE PUES AVÍSAME PERO ME TARDARÍA MAS TIEMPO OK ?
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: raymond-rmm@sbcglobal.net
> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 16:56:09 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Delgadillo
>
> This is boring for most members but I have not been able to decipher most of the information in the following that is discouraging at first because images of torn and faded pages make it extremely useless to continue perusing, BUT subsequent images are more readable and I would greatly appreciate any comments on the actions taken by the church in this matter:
>
> There is an entry for my maternal GGGG grandfather Ignacio Delgadillo in the following location:
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18410-4495-8?cc=1874591&wc=1…
>
> which begins on image 164 with a couple torn/pasted pages and continues to image 174 on the left page. I understand there was an issue with infidelity and separation of several years but cannot read enough to understand what other details are in the doument or final disposition. Also, cannot find names of other persons in the document that would give any information or clues to other famdily members. I saw the term 'desavenencia' toward the end but not sure if the marriage was dissolved. If anyone has the time to look at this, any light on the issue is greatly appreciated, and any insight on where to continue searching for more information on these ancestors of mine. If you think I should drop the subject altogether, please do not hesitate to relay that message. Thanks in advance!
Juan Angel Covarrubias son of Juan Covarrubias and Rosa Cobian married Maria Rosa Santana daughter of Pio Santana and Maria Castillo on February 6, 1773 in Tecolotlan, Jalisco.
Hello everyone,
Before I viewed the record image, I had already made my deduction about this case. The Covarrubias' family has been native of Jalisco since the era of the first settlers of that state's region.
I looked through the document, with all my experience in the subject and by the fact that my mother language is Spanish and can tell you that your ancestor wasn't a peninsular spanish, the document is a little bit fuzzy but I can read that he was from "Exutla", the modern writing writes it Ejutla and it's actually a municipality in Jalisco. But also, on the left side of the record it states "españoles de este pueblo" so it meant both of them were from Tecolotlán. In order to be sure about the origin of your ancestor you should look for his baptism certificate, what we're a 100% sure is that he wasn't from Spain.
I descend from the Covarrubias family and I can tell you that at least you would not connect this ancestor back to Spain for 200 years before that date.
Good luck with your research, I would like to add that I descend from that family but I'm not an expert with it, I think there any more members in this group that can help you more than me in the case of this family, hope that they read your message. However, if you have any other doubt let me know.
Enrique
Hi Enrique,
I sent you an email. Not sure if the email address is correct.
Mabel
Mabel,
I too have this couple in my family tree. Thank you for finding their marriage record. As is read it, after his name it reads "de este pueblo" in an abbreviated form. That means he was born in Tecolotlan. Let's see what others think.
Lucy Sweeney
Greetings:
I found the following in a PDF about Loreto, Zacatecas. It looks like Montesa was a cathedral in Pinos, Zacatecas that used to be in the parish of San Marias del Real in Pinos, but I don't understand the Spanish very well.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
Los volúmenes de registros de nacimientos, matrimonios y entierros de los siglos
XVII, XVIII y XIX dan testimonio de la extensa actividad religiosa que la capilla tuvo, (llegó
a registrar repetidos servicios diarios) colocándole como importante Auxiliar de la
Parroquia de San Matías del Real de Pinos, de la que dependió desde su origen; después
al erigirse La Montesa en Parroquia en 1904, quedó en su demarcación; el año de
1922 fue disgregada dicha Parroquia de San Antonio de la Montesa y la capilla quedó a
control de Noria de Ángeles; que desde 1883 se erigió como Parroquia de la Purísima
Concepción, a la que perteneció hasta el 15 de diciembre de 1956 en que la vicaría fija
de la exhacienda de La Concepción fue elevada a Parroquia, a la que pertenece hasta
la fecha dentro de la Diócesis de Zacatecas.
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: m.caraveo@sbcglobal.net
> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 18:34:15 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] La Montesa Filegresa de Pinos
>
> Greetings:
>
> Need help in locating where is La Montesa, filegresa de pinos, Trying to locate baptismal for Agapito Aguilar Yzquierdo. Some of my records,that I have found in Cienega de Mata. Jalisco, state, this location And Also Same Family as being from el Xaral del Valle, I've been try to locate these places for a long time without sucess. Please, Please Help. Thank You very much in advance
>
> Mary Caraveo
Would you please be more specific. Are these places in Aguascalientes or Zacatecas. Thank you very much for your help. If there is anyone else that has knowledge of which state these places are located, please help.
My father-in-law was from the Rancho los Pintos, Momax, Zacatecas. I've also seen it referred to as the Pinos...but not sure if it's a typo error or if there are/were two one named Pintos and the other Pinos...
Pat Silva Corbera
----- Original Message -----
From: "m caraveo"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 9:26:07 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] montesa,filegresa de pinos
Would you please be more specific. Are these places in Aguascalientes or Zacatecas. Thank you very much for your help. If there is anyone else that has knowledge of which state these places are located, please help.
Mary
You will find all images related to that surnames both Pinos and Asientos parishes
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: m.caraveo@sbcglobal.net
> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 18:34:15 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] La Montesa Filegresa de Pinos
>
> Greetings:
>
> Need help in locating where is La Montesa, filegresa de pinos, Trying to locate baptismal for Agapito Aguilar Yzquierdo. Some of my records,that I have found in Cienega de Mata. Jalisco, state, this location And Also Same Family as being from el Xaral del Valle, I've been try to locate these places for a long time without sucess. Please, Please Help. Thank You very much in advance
>
> Mary Caraveo
If you haven't already discovered this site, you may want to look at these photos. Many date back to the early 1900's.
Quizas escuchaste que ya existe la posibilidad de revisar miles de imagenes de Bautismos, Matrimonios, Defunciones y algunos Registros Civiles de México y que al buscar por nombre el resultado te pue
Quizas escuchaste que ya existe la posibilidad de revisar miles de imagenes de Bautismos, Matrimonios, Defunciones y algunos Registros Civiles de México y que al buscar por nombre el resultado te puede llevar a la imagen del acta buscada.
Esto se logra mediante un servicio voluntario que prestan cientos de genealogístas de todos los niveles de habilidad, usando un sencillo software de computadoras e internet.
Genealogía de México esta participando en este esfuerzo, te invitamos a que te unas a nuestro grupo el cual recibio por parte de FamilySearch de Salt Lake City el Nombre "Genealogica de Mexico" (en lugar de Genealogia de Mexico).
Es muy simple unirtenos, al hacerlo te capacitaremos y ayudaremos en tus dudas de Indexación (gratis).
Prmero selecciona tu usuario y contraseña en: https://ident.familysearch.org/cis-web/pages/registration/registration…
Segundo: Descarga el Software desde: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55851046/Software/Indexing/Indexing_windows_3_…
Luego te pedira 3 datos sencillos
Grupo: Genealogica de Mexico
Subgrupo: (vacio)
Telefono:
Tercero: Da click en " Descarga un Lote "
Da click en "Mostrar Todos los Proyectos"
y Selecciona cualquiera de Mexico
Si tiene algun problema en este proceso, contactanos y con gusto te ayudaremos, incluye tus datos de contacto para este fin.
O bien si nos permites agregarte directamente a nuestro grupo.
Benicio Samuel Sanchez
Genealogista e Historiador Familiar
Email: samuelsanchez@genealogia.org.mx
Website: http://www.Genealogia.org.mx
Office (81) 8393 0011 Cellphone 811+513+8354 Skype: Genealogia.org.mx
"Haz tu Arbol Genealogico...El Arbol mas Hermoso de la Creacion"
Por medio de la historia familiar descubrimos el árbol más hermoso de la creación: nuestro árbol genealógico. Sus numerosas raíces se remontan a la historia y sus ramas se extienden a través de la eternidad. La historia familiar es la expresión extensiva del amor eterno; nace de la abnegación y provee la oportunidad de asegurarse para siempre una unidad familiar”.
(Élder J. Richard Clarke, Liahona julio de 1989, pág.69)
Hi everyone,
I'm so excited because I found my great great grandmother's baptismal certificate, now we move into Huejucar, Jalisco, when just about everyone else was from Zacatecas.
Maternal grandpatents:
Leon Galvan
Leonides Lamas
Padrinos: Francisco Acosta y Juana Marquez
Marriage Record:
Leon Galvan
Leonor Lamas
Antonio Marquez
Nazaria Flores
Toribio Galvan 37 years old he's widower Anacleta Sandoval 7 years
Margarita Marquez 23 years old
Padrinos Juan Jose Galvan y Maria Ignacia Galvan
Witness Pascual Cabral y Eleuterio Leon
On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 12:10 AM, wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm so excited because I found my great great grandmother's baptismal
> certificate, now we move into Huejucar, Jalisco, when just about everyone
> else was from Zacatecas.
>
> This is her baptismal certificate (bottom left side):
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/**MM9.3.1/TH-1-18455-33928-21?**
> cc=1874591&wc=12506361
>
> Parents: Toribio Galvan
> Margarita Marquez
>
> Paternal grandparents:
> Leon Galvan
> Leonides ??
>
> Maternal grandparents:
> Antonio Marquez
> Nasaria Villegas
>
>
> However, her parents' marriage record looks to have different names (upper
> right).
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/**MM9.3.1/TH-1-18688-39540-92?**
> cc=1874591&wc=12506867
>
> Paternal grandparents:
> Leon Galvan
> Leonora ??
>
> Maternal grandparents:
> Antonio Marquez
> Nasaria Flores??
>
> Also, this appears to be Toribio's second marriage, he's a widower of
> Anacleta Sandoval?? Are the people at bottom the padrinos and witnesses?
>
> Thanks!
> Laura
Images of Mexican Indians