Searches of Roland Medellin Romo

 
I have a paternal grandfather (Andres A. Romo) that is from Teocaltiche, Jalisco.

Comentarios

Comentario

Rolando,

I did some looking on FamilySearch, and this is what I have been able to
find.

Ahnentafel Chart for Andres A. Romo

First Generation
1. Andres A. Romo was born in Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico.

Second Generation
2. Claro Romo .Claro married Crisanta Aguilera.
3. Crisanta Aguilera .

Third Generation
4. Jose Bernabe ROMO DIAZ was born in Cienega. He was christened on 26
Jun 1811 in Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico. He married Maria de Jesus
Moran Aguilera on 5 Feb 1837 in Nuestra Senora De Los Dolores, Teocaltiche,
Jalisco, Mexico.
5. Maria de Jesus Moran Aguilera .

Fourth Generation
8. JOSE YGNO. ROMO MORAN was christened on 18 Jun 1788 in La
Encarnacion, Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico. He married Maria de Jesus
Dias on 25 Nov 1807 in La Encarnacion, Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico.

9. Maria de Jesus Dias .

Fifth Generation
16. JOSE MARIA ROMO DE VIVAR .JOSE married Maria MORAN on 30 Jan 1782 in
Nuestra Senora De Los Dolores, Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico.
17. Maria MORAN .
18. Felipe DIAZ .Felipe married MA. DE LOS DOLORES ROBALCABA.
19. MA. DE LOS DOLORES ROBALCABA .

Sixth Generation
32. Ygnacio ROMO .Ygnacio married Joaquina MORA.
33. Joaquina MORA .
34. Pablo MORAN .Pablo married Manuela GONZALES.
35. Manuela GONZALES .

Ahnentafel Chart for Maria Teresa Ante Medellin

First Generation
1. Maria Teresa Ante Medellin .

Second Generation
2. Antonio Ante Aguilar was christened on 17 Jun 1866 in Senor San
Jose, Ojuelos, Jalisco, Mexico. He married Maria D. Rodriguez.
3. Maria D. Rodriguez .

Third Generation
4. Juan Ante Cerbantes was christened on 29 May 1834 in La
Encarnacion, Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico. He married Maria Salome
Lechuga Aguilar on 10 Feb 1855 in Ledesma, Ojuelos, Jalisco, Mexico.
5. Maria Salome Lechuga Aguilar was christened on 4 Nov 1838 in
Nuestra Senora De Belen, Asientos, Aguascalientes, Mexico. She died in 1899
in Ojuelos, Jalisco, Mexico.
6. Roque Rodriguez .Roque married Maria Concepcion Nunez Garcia.
7. Maria Concepcion Nunez Garcia was christened on 23 Aug 1841 in
Senor San Jose, Ojuelos, Jalisco, Mexico.

Fourth Generation
8. Jose Maria Ante .Jose married MARIA DE LA MERCED CERBANTES on 6 Apr
1833 in La Encarnacion, Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico.
9. MARIA DE LA MERCED CERBANTES .
10. Francisco Aguilar .Francisco married Maria Elva Juana Lechuga.
12. Bernandino Rodriguez .Bernandino married Ynocencia BAES.
13. Ynocencia BAES .
14. Rafael Nunez was born in 1811 in Ajustos Visino De Los Amarillas, ,
, Mexico. He married MARIA PATRISIA GARSIA on 26 Apr 1834 in Senor San Jose,
Ojuelos, Jalisco, Mexico.
15. MARIA PATRISIA GARSIA .

Fifth Generation
28. RAMON NUNEZ was born in 1782 in San Pedro Piedra Gorda, Zacatecas,
Mexico. He married FRANCISCA SALAZAR in 1804 in San Pedro Piedra Gorda,
Zacatecas, Mexico.
29. FRANCISCA SALAZAR was born in 1783 in San Pedro Piedra Gorda,
Zacatecas, Mexico.

I hope that this helps.
Jonathan

SLC

I was so encouraged by a posting that others may be visiting the research center in June that I made travel arrangements and reservations for June 17 thru 20.  I am a novice to geneology and

Comentarios

Comentario

I actually start searching the state of interest with all of the combinations of names that I can think of. As many of you know there are letters that are interchangeable like Z & S, V & B etc... I was looking for an Alvares on pilot. FAmilySearch.org and finally found the individual of interest spelled as Flvares so when you look in databases do not expect to find the names spelled correctly. As soon as I am finished with the state I search the whole country.

Comentario

Not only that but sometimes the first names are wrong. My grandfather was
registered as Cirilo Chavez and his name was Daniel Chavez. I did not
find him in the index but as I went through the entire year, record by record,
I found twp Cirilo Chavez and one of them the parents were my great
grandparents. It happened that same day so the judge just got confused or
whatever and wrote Cirilo again.

In a message dated 5/9/2009 9:46:25 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
EduardoHSeoane@gmail.com writes:

I actually start searching the state of interest with all of the
combinations of names that I can think of. As many of you know there are letters
that are interchangeable like Z & S, V & B etc... I was looking for an Alvares
on pilot. FAmilySearch.org and finally found the individual of interest
spelled as Flvares so when you look in databases do not expect to find the
names spelled correctly. As soon as I am finished with the state I search the
whole country.

Comentario

I haven't been following this thread until just now but I wanted to
add that my father had an Aunt Sara, whom I never met but had heard of
all my childhood. I could never find any documentation on her but
when I did, in Texas Deaths 1890-1975 in the Family Search Pilot, my
great-grandmother's name was spelled Francius rather than Francisca
and my great-grandfather's name was spelled Senobio, whereas, I've
also seen in official documents as Zenobio and Cenobio. However, in
the official death certificate, my great-grandmother's name is spelled
correctly. Apparently, it's the transcriber who couldn't read it
properly. Marge:)

On May 10, 2009, at 1:49 PM, MecheChavez@aol.com wrote:

Not only that but sometimes the first names are wrong. My
grandfather was
registered as Cirilo Chavez and his name was Daniel Chavez. I did not
find him in the index but as I went through the entire year, record by
record,
I found twp Cirilo Chavez and one of them the parents were my great
grandparents. It happened that same day so the judge just got
confused or
whatever and wrote Cirilo again.

In a message dated 5/9/2009 9:46:25 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
EduardoHSeoane@gmail.com writes:

I actually start searching the state of interest with all of the
combinations of names that I can think of. As many of you know there
are letters
that are interchangeable like Z & S, V & B etc... I was looking for
an Alvares
on pilot. FAmilySearch.org and finally found the individual of interest
spelled as Flvares so when you look in databases do not expect to find
the
names spelled correctly. As soon as I am finished with the state I
search the
whole country.

Comentario

Here are a few more suggestions:

1. At the family history Library the films that you order are free and normally arrive the day after you order them around two in the afternoon. They only let you order five and sometimes six or seven per day. I have a friend who sometimes uses other peoples name to order extra films, (I am not condoning nor recommending this). As others have mentioned once the films are at the library they stay at the library indefinitely.

2. Check the Family History Library Catalog to verify what is there and what needs to be ordered. If the Film says FHL then it is already at the library. However if the film that you need says VAULT, then you need to order it so that it will be waiting for you.

3. Not all of the books are out on the floor so if you find a particular book that you want to read that is not in the regular stacks you can go to the "access services window" (library attendant window) and ask for the book they will then retrieve the item for you, the same goes for films not found in the regular stacks.

4. Digital cameras- I personally use a digital camera at the film reader and take off the flash. I usually take three quick pictures and then continue my search. Since I started doing this I no longer go to the digital film scanner. I think the quality is just as good and saves me time. The only drawback to this method is that you need a steady hand, I sometimes use a stand. Another way that I use my camera is to copy the title page of a book and any relevant information that I find within. You do not have to come to the library to use your camera. In fact you can use it in the manner described at any film reader where you are permitted to capture images.

5. There is a small lunch room on the main floor. Make sure to keep yourself fed and hydrated, you can easily loose track of time.

6. The Library now offers one on one consultation with a Research consultant. So if you find that you need some advice take advantage of it, it's free. They also normally have consultants available weekdays from 8am to 4pm and some Saturdays and evenings. Furthermore, other than the consultants they have many volunteers who speak Spanish and read the records.

Goo luck!

Can someone please translate the comments into Spanish they will help anyone traveling to SLC.

Comentario

On May 8, 2009, at 12:00 AM, EduardoHSeoane@gmail.com wrote:

> Here are a few more suggestions:
>
> 1. At the family history Library the films that you order are free
> and normally arrive the day after you order them around two in the
> afternoon. They only let you order five and sometimes six or seven
> per day. I have a friend who sometimes uses other peoples name to
> order extra films, (I am not condoning nor recommending this). As
> others have mentioned once the films are at the library they stay at
> the library indefinitely.

I have the telephone number that you can call to order the film before
you arrive. If you tell them you are coming to SLC for a short period
of time and are from out of town......especially if you are from out
of STATE.......they will allow you to order more than the usual five
film. I have done this in the past and have requested as many as 25
or so! If you like, I can furnish the telephone number next week
since I am still out of the country.

Josie T. Trevino

Comentario

Josie,
This is great!  I'll be looking for the telephone number.  Have a safe trip back.
Thank you.
Raymond Medrano

--- On Fri, 5/8/09, Josie T. Trevino wrote:

From: Josie T. Trevino
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] SLC trip
To: announce@nuestrosranchos.org, EduardoHSeoane@gmail.com
Date: Friday, May 8, 2009, 8:18 AM

On May 8, 2009, at 12:00 AM, EduardoHSeoane@gmail.com wrote:

> Here are a few more suggestions:
>
> 1. At the family history Library the films that you order are free and
normally arrive the day after you order them around two in the afternoon. They
only let you order five and sometimes six or seven per day. I have a friend who
sometimes uses other peoples name to order extra films, (I am not condoning nor
recommending this). As others have mentioned once the films are at the library
they stay at the library indefinitely.

I have the telephone number that you can call to order the film before you
arrive. If you tell them you are coming to SLC for a short period of time and
are from out of town......especially if you are from out of STATE.......they
will allow you to order more than the usual five film. I have done this in the
past and have requested as many as 25 or so! If you like, I can furnish the
telephone number next week since I am still out of the country.

Josie T. Trevino

Comentario

Raymond,

The number for the B1 (International Floor) Attendants window, where you
order the microfilm is 801-240-2334. They'll help you out there.

Jonathan

--------- Original Message --------
From: announce@nuestrosranchos.org
To: announce@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] SLC trip
Date: 05/09/09 16:17

> Josie,
> This is great!� I'll be looking for the telephone number.� Have a safe
trip back.
> Thank you.
> Raymond Medrano
>
> --- On Fri, 5/8/09, Josie T. Trevino wrote:
>
> From: Josie T. Trevino
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] SLC trip
> To: announce@nuestrosranchos.org, EduardoHSeoane@gmail.com
> Date: Friday, May 8, 2009, 8:18 AM
>
> On May 8, 2009, at 12:00 AM, EduardoHSeoane@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Here are a few more suggestions:
> >
> > 1. At the family history Library the films that you order are free
and
> normally arrive the day after you order them around two in the afternoon.
They
> only let you order five and sometimes six or seven per day. I have a
friend who
> sometimes uses other peoples name to order extra films, (I am not
condoning nor
> recommending this). As others have mentioned once the films are at the
library
> they stay at the library indefinitely.
>
> I have the telephone number that you can call to order the film before you
> arrive. If you tell them you are coming to SLC for a short period of time
and
> are from out of town......especially if you are from out of
STATE.......they
> will allow you to order more than the usual five film. I have done this
in the
> past and have requested as many as 25 or so! If you like, I can furnish
the
> telephone number next week since I am still out of the country.
>
> Josie T. Trevino

Comentario

That is great to hear that there appears to be a Nuestros Ranchos impromptu reunion in the making. I must say my first trip to Salt Lake was such a great experience thanks to Mickey, Josie, Kitty, Rich and all of the other Ranchos members that I met there.

Some recommendations for your trip:

1. Have a research plan... it is very easy to spend entire days going from film to film and not focusing or achieving much in terms of gathering new information. I have done two types of trips... one where where I had very specific records I wanted to look up so I compiled a list of films, names, etc. and another where I had two films I wanted to read from beginning to end (and scan as much as possible).

2. Make sure that the Library has the films that you will need. Many films are still sitting in the Vault and have to be ordered to the library which can take up to a week. If you notify the Library of the dates that you will be there and what films you will need from the vault, they will preorder them for you so they are available when you visit.

3. Take a USB thumb drive or a pile of blank CDs. Scanning records is by far better than printing them but you have to have somewhere to save the records. The library sells CDs but it is more convenient to use a USB thumbdrive.

4. Book scanner time ahead of time. They usually book up pretty early in the day so you can book time early in the day (perhaps even on different floors), tag the records you want to scan as you go (I slip a small piece of paper in the microfilm as I wind it) and then go back and do all of your scanning in one or two sessions.

5. Take food and water with you to the Library. While you can't eat in the Library, it is nice to be able to walk out and have a snack. There is a decent restaurant right next door at the Salt Lake Plaza Hotel, but sometimes you don't want to sit down for a full meal.

Everybody who goes to Salt Lake, please let the rest of us know how it goes. Post photos if you get a chance. Good luck with your research.

Comentario

Arturo
You can send a list of films needed before you go to SLC

Mickey

dated 5/7/2009 7:19:05 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
arturo.ramos2@gmail.com writes:

That is great to hear that there appears to be a Nuestros Ranchos
impromptu reunion in the making. I must say my first trip to Salt Lake was such a
great experience thanks to Mickey, Josie, Kitty, Rich and all of the other
Ranchos members that I met there.

Some recommendations for your trip:

1. Have a research plan... it is very easy to spend entire days going from
film to film and not focusing or achieving much in terms of gathering new
information. I have done two types of trips... one where where I had very
specific records I wanted to look up so I compiled a list of films, names,
etc. and another where I had two films I wanted to read from beginning to
end (and scan as much as possible).

2. Make sure that the Library has the films that you will need. Many
films are still sitting in the Vault and have to be ordered to the library
which can take up to a week. If you notify the Library of the dates that you
will be there and what films you will need from the vault, they will
preorder them for you so they are available when you visit.

3. Take a USB thumb drive or a pile of blank CDs. Scanning records is by
far better than printing them but you have to have somewhere to save the
records. The library sells CDs but it is more convenient to use a USB
thumbdrive.

4. Book scanner time ahead of time. They usually book up pretty early in
the day so you can book time early in the day (perhaps even on different
floors), tag the records you want to scan as you go (I slip a small piece of
paper in the microfilm as I wind it) and then go back and do all of your
scanning in one or two sessions.

5. Take food and water with you to the Library. While you can't eat in
the Library, it is nice to be able to walk out and have a snack. There is a
decent restaurant right next door at the Salt Lake Plaza Hotel, but
sometimes you don't want to sit down for a full meal.

Everybody who goes to Salt Lake, please let the rest of us know how it
goes. Post photos if you get a chance. Good luck with your research.

Comentario

Talk about enthusiasm, I'm really looking forward to visiting the research center.  Thanks to  Arturo, Alicia, and Eduardo, your guidance and many helpful suggestions are like tools in the hands of a master, or in this case, a novice. 
I have a few film numbers that I will order in advance.  The areas and dates of interest so far are:
 
1874-1877..El Senor Del Encino, Aguas (Crescencio Medrano)
 
1852...San Jose De Garcia, Rincon de Romos, Aguas (Antonia Guerrero Vasques)
 
1857..Julia Valdez Rosales, San Pable, Galeana, Nuevo Leon,
 
1876..Ygnacio Medrano, Sagrario Metropolitano, Oaxaca De Juarez, Oaxaca,
 
1857..Crecencio Medrano Carrillo, La Inmaculada Comcepcion, Matehuala, SLPotosi,
 
1852..Cresencio Medrano Urea, Zacoalco De Torres, Jalisco,
 
1852..Cresencio Medrano Delgadillo, Mexticacan, Jalisco,
 
about 1895 Gomez Palacio, Ignacio (Ygnacio) Medrano and Maria Delgadillo Prieto,marriage
 
This jumps around in locations, but trying to isolate possibilities.  I had no idea there were so many names used so much in many different areas, like a can of worms.
 
My brother and I will be in SLC June 17-20 and would like to meet anyone there.
 
Appreciative, Raymond Medrano (Arriola...that's another project altogether!)
 
 

En respuesta a por murcielago

Comentario

Hi Raymond, Just some helpful words, you dont need to order any Aguascalientes film, you can view all films the church has for Aguascalientes 1616-1964, all types of records, just go to www.familysearchlabs.org , same with all Chihuahua films for 1632-1965. Just thought you could use those $12 or so for other films! Sometimes, genealogy gets to the point with so much moving around, there has to be trial and error in checking places. -Daniel Camino

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En respuesta a por mendezdetorres

Comentario

Daniel,

The microfilm image is usually better than the online digital image, so they might want to make a digital copy while in SLC.

La imagen de la micropelícula usualmente es mejor que la imagen digital en línea, entonces quizás quieran hacer una copia digital mientras están en SLC (Lago Salado).

En respuesta a por murcielago

Comentario

Raymond,
You mentioned "trying to isolate possibilities". Hate to throw in one more thing, but I just wanted to share what happened to me recently. By sheer luck (wrong key stroke)I found several records of relatives in Bajio de San Jose which is part of Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco. These were family members that through oral family history were "from Aguascalientes". I believe that I never found them before because I would filter out "Jalisco" for that side of the family. Sort of unrelated but maybe helpful, I also found records by NOT correcting misspelled names and letting the search go through.
Sherri Mora

En respuesta a por Sherri Mora

Comentario

I have found many people doing exactly the same thing. My mistakes at first were from my lousy typing. I soon learned that my lousy typing was a gift from heaven. I have also found family members that were from aguascalientes registered in encarnacion de diaz.
Rick

________________________________

From: announce-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of kanakalele@aol.com
Sent: Sat 5/9/2009 5:07 PM
To: announce@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] SLC

Raymond,
You mentioned "trying to isolate possibilities". Hate to throw in one more thing, but I just wanted to share what happened to me recently. By sheer luck (wrong key stroke)I found several records of relatives in Bajio de San Jose which is part of Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco. These were family members that through oral family history were "from Aguascalientes". I believe that I never found them before because I would filter out "Jalisco" for that side of the family. Sort of unrelated but maybe helpful, I also found records by NOT correcting misspelled names and letting the search go through.
Sherri Mora

Research for hire

Por este medio quisiera informarle al grupo de Nuestros Ranchos que estoy en
el proceso de agregar nuevos clientes/proyectos y me presento formalmente:

Soy consultor de investigaciones genealógic

DUDA APELLIDOS 1800

Buenas noches, tengo muchas dudas y a ver si pueden ayudarme.

Jose Felix Macias Hernandez
Nacio en El Salitre, Zacatecas
Padre Miguel Macias.
Madre Cristina Hernandez
22 de nov 1827 lo bautizar

Comentarios

Comentario

Felix:

El apellido nunca cambio. Si entiendo bien tu mensaje dices que tu bisabuelo se llamaba José Felix Muñoz, pero que en su acta de bautismo? nacimiento? aparece con el apellido Macias.

En mi experiencia, las actas de bautismo muchas veces no llevan apellido, solamente el nombre del niño y de los padres. Los voluntarios que extraen la información asumen (por razones culturales) que el niño lleva el apellido del padre. Pero antes de las reformas borbonicas a principios de los 1800s no había sistema estructurado de apellidos en el mundo hispanoparlante. La gente llevaba el apellido del padre, de la madre o a veces hasta el de abuelos o vecinos.

La abuela de tu bisabuelo se apellidaba Muñoz. Es probable que Miguel Macias se llamara Miguel Muñoz y el padre por pereza o confusión le haya puesto Macias en la acta. Así que el nombre de tu bisabuelo siempre fue Muñoz pero por confusión o pereza hay actas donde los curas (o más bien los escribanos de la iglesia o hasta los voluntarios que transcribieron las actas a las bases de datos de los mormones) le ponían Macias.

Igual, hay muchísima gente que usaba varios apellidos y cambiaba de uno a otro dependiendo en la etapa de su vida o dependiendo lo que les covenía a ellos o a los curas que hacian las actas. Yo he visto la misma persona con tres apellidos... Antonio de la O, Antonio Covarrubias y Antonio Talamantes... todos la misma persona... uno el apellido de la madre, el otro el de la abuela materna y el otro del padre.

Sánchez de Mendoza

Does anyone have anyinfo on this couple, I have not been able to order it yet becuae I have 5 films already at the FHC.

Andrea Sánchez de Mendoza
Juan de Villaseñor y Orozco

Comentarios

Comentario

I do not know who the Ygnacio Sánchez de Mendoza who is having children in Jalostotitlán is, but it looks like he might be a brother of Andrea's. This would need to be verified.

Name: Maria Antonia Sanches De La Bas
Gender: Female
Christening date: 03 May 1729
Christening place: NUESTRA SENORA DE LA ASUNCION, JALOSTOTITLAN, JALISCO, MEXICO
Residence: Jalostotitlan, Jalisco, Mexico
Father name: Ygnacio Sanches De Mendosa
Father birth place:
Age of father:
Mother name: Maria Masemiliana De La Bas
Mother birth place:
Mother age:
Batch number: C60320-3
Date range: 1721 - 1735
Record group: Mexico-VR
Film number: 279255
Collection: Mexico Baptisms 1700-1900

I also found a child of Andreas but you will have to verify the information on the film, you might already have this information. Wow almost nine months to the day! You might want to look up the batch number on FamilySearch.org, IGI to see other individuals from that town that were christened during the Date Range of 1721 -1735

Name: Joseph Antonio De Salgado Sanches
Gender: Male
Christening date: 10 May 1725
Christening place: NUESTRA SENORA DE LA ASUNCION, JALOSTOTITLAN, JALISCO, MEXICO
Residence: Jalostotitlan, Jalisco, Mexico
Father name: Juan De Salgado Y Villasenor
Mother name: Andrea Sanches De Mendosa
Batch number: C60320-3
Date range: 1721 - 1735
Record group: Mexico-VR
Film number: 279255
Collection: Mexico Baptisms 1700-1900

Comentario

Thanks Eduardo, Ignacio (he appears as Sánchez de Hermosillo) is son of Melchor Sánchez de Mendoza and Gertrudis Muñoz de Hermosillo. I found his marriage to María de la Paz 2 Feb 1728 in Jalos. Ill prob just order the marriage for Andrea, through Salt Lake just the scan or copy, so I wont have to order the entire film. Thanks for the baptism of J. Antonio, didnt have that. -Daniel

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Salt Lake City research trip anyone??

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Members:

I'm planning a trip to SLC in June or July, I can be flexible on the date and am looking for a female travel partner to SLC.

If any nuestros ranchos ladies are in

Comentarios

Comentario

I can recommend a great place for dinner- One World Cafe. Delicious, abundant, organic, and affordable -you pay what you can. See their website.

Comentario

alicia
how long are you considering the trip?

--- On Sun, 4/26/09, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

From: Alicia Carrillo
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Salt Lake City research trip anyone??
To: announce@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Sunday, April 26, 2009, 2:46 PM

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Members:

I'm planning a trip to SLC in June or July, I can be flexible on the date and am looking for a female travel partner to SLC.

If any nuestros ranchos ladies are interested, please let me know.

Of course any gentlemen can go too, I'm just looking for a roommate and travel buddy but if a group of people go, male or female and meet up there, that would also be great.

If interested, you can contact me off-line at alliecar@pacbell.net.

Regards,
Alicia, San Jose, Calif

Comentario

Yolanda,
I work full time, therefore am only able to take 4 working days plus Saturday to do research, that would be 5 days total of research.

Possible days for me would be Tuesday June 16, through June 20th for research Return home on Sunday June 21st.

I would travel to Salt Lake the evening of Monday June 15th, check in and be ready to do research at 8:00 AM Tuesday morning.

Let me know what you think. my cell phone is 408 761-2378, work 408 522-043, home evenings, 408 997-3753

Regards,
Alicia

________________________________
From: Yolanda Edwards-Guerra
To: announce@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 3:51:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Salt Lake City research trip anyone??

alicia
how long are you considering the trip?

--- On Sun, 4/26/09, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

From: Alicia Carrillo
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Salt Lake City research trip anyone??
To: announce@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Sunday, April 26, 2009, 2:46 PM

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Members:

I'm planning a trip to SLC in June or July, I can be flexible on the date and am looking for a female travel partner to SLC.

If any nuestros ranchos ladies are interested, please let me know.

Of course any gentlemen can go too, I'm just looking for a roommate and travel buddy but if a group of people go, male or female and meet up there, that would also be great.

If interested, you can contact me off-line at alliecar@pacbell.net.

Regards,
Alicia, San Jose, Calif

Comentario

Alicia there is a Spanish research series planned for Saturday May 30th
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/Education/frameset_education.as…
but
you are probably way beyond the classes that will be taught. Anyway good
luck on your trip, who knows I might happen to be there that week also.

>

Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado Gabai

Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado Gabai married on May 17 1693 in Aguascalientes. Parents of the groom are not listed. Sebastiana is daughter of Joseph Delgado and Francisca Gabai.

Comentarios

Comentario

Jaime I have a Andres Thadeo De Puga married to Maria Estefania Calvillo,
this Andres is my husband ggggggrandfather. Some of the childrens church
records are listed as "mulatos libres", which I belive the parents where
also mulatos. I am trying to find more information on Andres Thadeo De Puga
and Maria Estefania Calvillo, his dauther Maria Antonia De Puga was born in
Ojocaliente, Zacatecas and the last 3 children are born in Aguascalientes.
Let me know where I can find more information on the Puga Family.
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 9:49 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado Gabai

> Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado Gabai married on May 17 1693 in
> Aguascalientes. Parents of the groom are not listed. Sebastiana is
> daughter of Joseph Delgado and Francisca Gabai. Does any one has
> additional information, specifically what is the relationship of Francisca
> to Ana Francisca Gabay, wife of Lope Ruiz de Esparza?
>
> Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

Jaime,

Early Aguascalientes records (1600-1700) indicate that most people with the
surname PUGA were mulatos, moriscos or mestizos. Obviously, their ancestors
did not arrive from Spain, but were slaves or servants who used the surname
provided by their owners or employers. The case of Andrés de Puga, married
to Sebastiana Delgado Tiscareño (aka Sebastiana Delgado Gabai) seems to be
different. His marriage information indicates that he was born in
Guadalajara, a child born out of wedlock. His descendants, five of them born
in Aguascalientes between 1694-1704, were all identified as "españoles". I
have the following children in my database:

1. Joseph Manuel b. 1694
2. María b. 1695
3. Theresa b. 1700
5. Joseph b. 1702
5. Anna María b. 1704 m. Luis de la Torre 1717. Their daughter Emiliana
Isabel de la Torre was baptized 20 July 1718 in Aguascalientes. Her
godparents were Andrés de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado.

Sebastiana Delgado was buried in Aguascalientes on 11 Aug 1735. I have no
burial info. for Andrés de Puga, but as stated in the previous paragraph, he
was still alive in 1718.

A note of caution for those researching their ancestors in Aguascalientes in
the late 1600s and early 1700s. By that time many slaves and servants had
adopted the surname of their master ("amo" or "patrón") sometimes even using
an identical first name. A classical example is the marriage of Marcos
Marín de Peñaloza, indio, and Luisa Tiscareño, india, married in
Aguascalientes ca. 1670. They had 14 children between 1670 and 1699, all
either indios or mestizos (up to the priest to decide). The children
continued using the surname Marín de Peñaloza, and married other indios or
mestizos. Marcos and Luisa were servants of the wealthy Marín de Peñaloza
and Tiscareño families. The marriage records describes them as "sirvientes
en la Hacienda del Saucillo". Anyone not extracting info. from the original
records but just using FamilySearch could easily misconstrue his family tree
because the names are identical.

Bill Figueroa

Comentario

Jaime

I found the matrimonial investigation for Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado.

My rather poor Spanish makes it hard to read, but I believe it says in part:

"Andres de Puga, Espanol natural de la Cuidad de Guadalaxa y vezino de esta Villa mas tiempo de ocho anos hijo natural de Antonio Cosin presco ..."

I am pretty sure it says "hijo natural de Antonio" and not "hijo natural de Antonia". I believe the last name is "Cosin" but this does not sound Spanish to me.

It continues

"con Sebastiana Delgado espanola natural y vezino desta Jurisdicion hija lexitima de Joseph Delgado difunto y de Franca Gabay y para que ..."

The others providing statements are Nicolas de Puga, Pedro (I believe, this written on the interior margin of the page so not all the letters are readable) Romo, and Diego Delgado,

The marriage record for Joseph Delgado and Francsica Gabai states ...

"Joseph Delgado nl y vecina de Pinos hijo de Diego Delgado y Jua Dias ... con Franca Gabadi nl de [I'm not sure of the next word] hija legitima de Luis de Tiscareno y Lorenza Ruis de Esparsa ... padrinos de velacion Lope Ruis de Esparza y Franca Gabadi sus abuelos y testigos ... Diego Delgado Dominga de ... y Gaspar de Palos ..."

If I read these documents correctly, this answers the question.

All of these are available at the Family Search Pilot website.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

George and Daniel,
I read the informacion matrimonial for Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado. There is very valuable information there. For one thing there ages are listed,
and thus Andres was born around 1667 and Sebstiana in 1668. Also, regarding Andres, his uncle Nicolas de Puga, listed as mulato, is a witness for the groom.
Nicolas de Puga was married to Maria de Sandi (married 3 October, 1677, in Aguascalientes), got their marriage record, but have not been able to locate their marriage information.Nicolas and Maria had a, a child named Nicolas de Puga Sandi (christened 23 SEP 1685 El Sagrario, Aguascalientes) also listed as mulato. Interestingly ,
Lorenzo Ruiz de Esparza, son of Lope and Francisca Gabai, in his second marriage married Josepha de Sandi a month earlier than Nicolas and Maria. Are Maria and Joseph sisters?

Jaime

----- Original Message -----
From: gpf13@aol.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 10:46:42 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado Gabai

Jaime

I found the matrimonial investigation for Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado.

My rather poor Spanish makes it hard to read, but I believe it says in part:

"Andres de Puga, Espanol natural de la Cuidad de Guadalaxa y vezino de esta Villa mas tiempo de ocho anos hijo natural de Antonio Cosin presco ..."

I am pretty sure it says "hijo natural de Antonio" and not "hijo natural de Antonia". I believe the last name is "Cosin" but this does not sound Spanish to me.

It continues

"con Sebastiana Delgado espanola natural y vezino desta Jurisdicion hija lexitima de Joseph Delgado difunto y de Franca Gabay y para que ..."

The others providing statements are Nicolas de Puga, Pedro (I believe, this written on the interior margin of the page so not all the letters are readable) Romo, and Diego Delgado,

The marriage record for Joseph Delgado and Francsica Gabai states ...

"Joseph Delgado nl y vecina de Pinos hijo de Diego Delgado y Jua Dias ... con Franca Gabadi nl de [I'm not sure of the next word] hija legitima de Luis de Tiscareno y Lorenza Ruis de Esparsa ... padrinos de velacion Lope Ruis de Esparza y Franca Gabadi sus abuelos y testigos ... Diego Delgado Dominga de ... y Gaspar de Palos ..."

If I read these documents correctly, this answers the question.

All of these are available at the Family Search Pilot website.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

Hi Jaime, its Daniel, lets see if I can explain w/o confusing you. I have all sources if needed,

Sebastiana Delgado de Gabay casó Andrés de Puga, hija de José Delgado y Francisca (II) Navarro de Gabay utilizó el mismo apellido de su abuela. Francisca Navarro de Gabay es hija de Luís Tiscareño de Molina y Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza, quien es hija de don Lope (II) Ruiz de Esparza y Ana Francisca (I) Navarro de Gabay. Im sure youre aware about Lorenza de Esparza being used as descendants names. There's a lots of Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza, etc. So to answer your question Sebastiana would be Lope's great grandaughter, he had MANY grandchildren as you may know! I hope this helps, I think I have some stuff on Andrés but need to check! -Daniel

Comentario

Daniel

I think we have the same information! If you have the matrimonial investigation of Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado, how do you read Andres de Puga's father's (or mother's?) name? I have not seen a record where only a father's name is given, but it looks much more like "Antonio" than "Antonia" to me.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

Hi George could you tell me exactly what page # out of ??? which film in the Aguascalientes section of the pilot site? I have a lot of experience reading the stuff on the pilot already, maybe I can take shot at it. Well the Andrés Puga is as long as he IS español he should be related to the same Pugas stated from Guadalajara. The family was originally ''de Puga y Aguilar'' they married into my d'Bourbon ancestors in Guadalajara. Im still trying to figure out the Bourbon i know theyre french obviously but no luck with tracing it further than ca. 1609.
-Daniel

Comentario

Daniel, Jaime

I am going to e-mail the pages from the matrimonial investigation for Andres de Puga. It is for the year 1693, and the entry starts on folio page 136, and goes for four folio pages.

My e-mail is aol and this is sometimes a problem with large files. The images are about 2 Mb each. If you do not receive them, please let me know.

Daniel, if you can connect Andres with other de Puga families in Guadalajara, please let me know, and I will send them individually.

These files could be a start to unravel the Gabai/Navarro/Moctezuma connections! Perhaps we should start an Album for this data.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

Its definately, Cosín, I was studying the priest's writing! I ran it up on family search and there is some in Spain very little though mostly in Valencia. The interesting part your right it doesnt sound spanish! There seems to be alot of COUSIJN in the Netherlands, so they could be Dutch, We got to remember the Netherlands were part of Spain along with most of Europe during th 1500-1600's. Tha Habsburgs owned most of Europe. This could explain how it got to Spain. I thought of a possibly story whats not to say Antonio (by the way its definately ANTONIO for Andrés' father. Was dutch who traveled to Méjico? New Spain had hundreds of thousands of Europeans emiigrating! Germans, Portuguese, Italians, English, French, Spaniards, Danish, etc! An example My Friend, Liliana Ford, who is a Mexican of English descent. I didnt even know English went to New Spain. According to her dad, their family arrived prior to the Mexican Independence, what interesting things come up when doing genealogy! Ill continue reading the document w/ closer detail, Its possible since Andrés was natural his mother was "de Puga." -Daniel

Comentario

Daniel and Jaime

I'm glad the files came through OK; AOL can be a challenge!

I'm glad you're agreeing with my reading of these documents, I'm learning to read them!

You raise some interesting points. I have a friend who is of Portuguese descent (from the Azores), and many people there have Flemish ancestors. He verified this through a DNA test. Perhaps de Puga is of Portuguese/Fleming extraction?

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

George,

According to the Dictionary of American Family Names the surname PUGA is of
Galician origin.

Dictionary of American Family Names, Oxford University Press, ISBN
0-19-508137-4
Galician: nickname from puga 'thorn', 'prickle', probably in the figurative
sense 'sharp', 'clever'.

Bill Figueroa

Comentario

Bill,
I found a webpage of the Puga family in Chile (http://www.fmlapugaenchile.cl/). The first Puga
Alferez Alonso de Puga y Novoa Lazo y Mongrovejo
arrived in Chile from Galicia in 1618.

Jaime

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Figueroa"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 11:20:39 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Andres de Puga

George,

According to the Dictionary of American Family Names the surname PUGA is of
Galician origin.

Dictionary of American Family Names, Oxford University Press, ISBN
0-19-508137-4
Galician: nickname from puga 'thorn', 'prickle', probably in the figurative
sense 'sharp', 'clever'.

Bill Figueroa

Comentario

George and Daniel,
Thanks a lot for the information about Andres and Sebastiana.George, I searched for the Informacion Matrimonial but could not find it (gave up after hitting months and years in the wrong order). Stuart, in what page of the year 1693 did you find it? I would like to download the images.

Once again,

Thanks

Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

Sebastiana Delgado is the daughter of
Joseph Delgado-Gabai and Francisca
Tiscareno de Molina y Esparza, AKA
Francisca Navarro de Gabai

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Today's Topics:

  1. Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado Gabai (alvaradj@comcast.net)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 21:49:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: alvaradj@comcast.net
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado
    Gabai
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Message-ID:
   
   
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado Gabai married on May 17 1693 in Aguascalientes. Parents of the groom are not listed. Sebastiana is daughter of Joseph Delgado and Francisca Gabai. Does any one has additional information, specifically what is the relationship of Francisca to Ana Francisca Gabay, wife of Lope Ruiz de Esparza?

Jaime Alvarado

------------------------------

Comentario

Pilar,
I just recently stumbled with my Puga ancestral line via Andres de Puga (b. 1667) and Sebastiana Delgado Gabai. In the marriage information (1693), provided by George Fulton, Andres is listed as Espanol and the natural son of Antonio Cosin. Further, Andres' uncle, Nicolas de Puga, is listed as mulato in his 40's (44?) at the time of the wedding. Nicolas married (3 October, 1677, in Aguascalientes) Maria de Sandi, and had at least on child, Nicolas de Puga Sandi (christened 23 SEP 1685 El Sagrario, Aguascalientes) also mulato.
The timeline of Andres Thadeo de Puga and Maria Estefania appears to be latter. I found two of their children (below). The dates suggest that Andres Thadeo and Maria Estefania married around 1750, and were born around the 1730s. Accordingly, Andres Thadeo would be roughly the same age of the grandchildren of Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado ( born between 1718-1738). Was Andres Thadeo his greatnephew from the line of Nicolas de Puga?

MARIA ROSALIA PUGA CALVILLO
Christening:
28 JUN 1752 Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa Del Refugio, Zacatecas, Mexico
Parents:
Father: ANDRES THADEO DE PUGA
Mother: MARIA ESTEFANIA CALVILLO
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.:
K601211 1747 - 1776 1094622

JOSEPH FERNANDO RAPHAEL PUGA CALBILLO
Birth: 31 MAY 1770
Christening: 03 JUN 1770 El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico
Parents:
Father: ANDRES THADEO DE PUGA Family
Mother: MARIA ESTEFANIA CALBILLO

Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.:
J604781 1767 - 1770 0299439

Hope this helps

Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

Hi Jaime,
Thank you for the information! I also have Maria Rosalia and Joseph Fernando
Raphael. I have 6 more children, starting w/ Andres Antonio De Puga
Calvillo as "mulato libre", his christening on 28 dec 1747 on San Nicolas,
Zacatecas, Antonio Thadeo & Maria Calvillo are listed ad Mulatos. Then I
have Maria Rosalia born on 1752. there is the story of the twins girls, the
first one is Maria Antonia "cipanda" (light shade of brown) born on 19 of
April and Christening on the 30 of April 1765. Her sister Maria Antonia
Magdalena christening on May 3rd 1765, born 11 days before and Andres Tadeo
& Maria Calvillo are listed as "Españoles"(meaning they were white). After
then I haveJoseph Miguel Puga "mulato" born 27 sep 1758 in La Vaqueria,
Zacatecas.Next, Joseph Fernado born on 31 May 1770 "mestiso"in
Aguascalientes and the last one is Maria Eusebia De Puga born on 05 Nov 1772
in Aguascalientes, christening on 11 Nov 1772.
According to the priest who did the christening is the skin of the child was
dark, the child was "mulato" and if it was a little lighter then mestiso and
so on. I really not sure, some times the parents were "españoles" in some
actas and in other times they were "mulatos". I read Bill Figueroa email and
his is right but in this case many of the children are title different and
the parents too. I don't have the parents for Andres Thadeo Puga and Maria
Calvillo, does any of you members help me as to where I can look for it?
Thank you, Pilar
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jaime R. Alvarado"
To:
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado Gabai

>
>
> Pilar,
> I just recently stumbled with my Puga ancestral line via Andres de Puga
> (b. 1667) and Sebastiana Delgado Gabai. In the marriage information
> (1693), provided by George Fulton, Andres is listed as Espanol and the
> natural son of Antonio Cosin. Further, Andres' uncle, Nicolas de Puga, is
> listed as mulato in his 40's (44?) at the time of the wedding. Nicolas
> married (3 October, 1677, in Aguascalientes) Maria de Sandi, and had at
> least on child, Nicolas de Puga Sandi (christened 23 SEP 1685 El Sagrario,
> Aguascalientes) also mulato.
> The timeline of Andres Thadeo de Puga and Maria Estefania appears to be
> latter. I found two of their children (below). The dates suggest that
> Andres Thadeo and Maria Estefania married around 1750, and were born
> around the 1730s. Accordingly, Andres Thadeo would be roughly the same age
> of the grandchildren of Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado ( born
> between 1718-1738). Was Andres Thadeo his greatnephew from the line of
> Nicolas de Puga?
>
> MARIA ROSALIA PUGA CALVILLO
> Christening:
> 28 JUN 1752 Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa Del Refugio, Zacatecas, Mexico
> Parents:
> Father: ANDRES THADEO DE PUGA
> Mother: MARIA ESTEFANIA CALVILLO
> Source Information:
> Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.:
> K601211 1747 - 1776 1094622
>
> JOSEPH FERNANDO RAPHAEL PUGA CALBILLO
> Birth: 31 MAY 1770
> Christening: 03 JUN 1770 El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes,
> Mexico
> Parents:
> Father: ANDRES THADEO DE PUGA Family
> Mother: MARIA ESTEFANIA CALBILLO
>
> Source Information:
> Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.:
> J604781 1767 - 1770 0299439
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

Bill,
Thanks very much for the info. My information regarding the children of Andres de Puga and Sebastiana Delgado coincides with yours. In fact, my line actually is that of Anna Maria and Luis de la Torre. In addition to Emiliana I also have Pedro Benito de la Torre (b.21 march 1738) and Andres de la Torre (have not been able to find his christening record). Andres de la Torre married Ana Lucrecia Macias Valadez, daughter of Nicolas Macias Valadez and Gertrudis Macias (I am stuck here).
Regarding Luis de la Torre (b. 23 Dic 1699) I have his parents as Pedro de la Torre (b. 27 march 1673) and Manuela Macias Valades. Pedro was son of Luis de la Torre and Mariana Hernadez (m. 2 feb 1652), they had at least 7 children. I have ot been able to find their marriage information to get more info about Luis and Mariana's parents (so I'm also stuck here).

Jaime

Comentario

Jaime,

Mariana Hernández, aka Mariana Gutiérrez de Valdivia, was the daughter of
Juan Gutiérrez de Valdivia and Mariana Hernández. She preferred to use her
mother's name. Her mother was buried 17 Sep 1666 in Aguascalientes.
Mariana married Luis de la Torre 2 Feb 1652. Their children were Juan,
María, Luisa, Casilda, Bernarda, Pedro and Christobal de la Torre. I do not
have any info. on Luis de la Torre's parents.

Bill Figueroa

Comentario

To all:

Finding information on Luis de la Torre's parent's may not be possible ...

His marriage record (which is in the Aguascalientes records at the Family Search Pilot, 2 Feb 1652) says "... Luis de la Torre espanol hijo de la iglecia ..." I am unsure about the next words, but they may be "de esta Juris ..." It continues "con Maria Hernandes espanola hija legitima de Jn Gutierres difunto y de Mariana Hernandes su muger ..."

Does this mean he was left at the Church as a baby?

His birth may have been around 1630. This puts his birth in a period were there are very, very few baptismal records, according to Family Search

The matrimonial investigations at Family SEearch Pilot start after the date of his marriages.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

George,
Hijo de la Iglesia, is likely that he was left at the Church as a baby. So I guess we will never know who were his parents. The words "de esta Juris.." most likely mean "of this jurisdiction". Now even if records were complete, often those babies will be baptized without a surname, who often was adopted later in life. Would you mind sending me the jpg?

Thanks

Jaime
----- Original Message -----
From: gpf13@aol.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, May 1, 2009 9:08:38 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luis de la Torre

To all:

Finding information on Luis de la Torre's parent's may not be possible ...

His marriage record (which is in the Aguascalientes records at the Family Search Pilot, 2 Feb 1652) says "... Luis de la Torre espanol hijo de la iglecia ..." I am unsure about the next words, but they may be "de esta Juris ..." It continues "con Maria Hernandes espanola hija legitima de Jn Gutierres difunto y de Mariana Hernandes su muger ..."

Does this mean he was left at the Church as a baby?

His birth may have been around 1630. This puts his birth in a period were there are very, very few baptismal records, according to Family Search

The matrimonial investigations at Family SEearch Pilot start after the date of his marriages.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

Hi Daniel,

I'm confused...My original question was about Maria Luisa De San Ygnacio
Gomez De Mendoza (Jalostotitilan born abt. 27 Jun 1792). Is there a link to
her marrying Candido De Aguayo, Father to Agapito De Aguayo (born
abt.1807)???

Thanks, Jaime Gonzalez

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
mendezdelcamino@live.com
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 8:15 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] For Jaime

Hi Jaime, its Daniel, lets see if I can explain w/o confusing you. I have
all sources if needed,

Sebastiana Delgado de Gabay casó Andrés de Puga, hija de José Delgado y
Francisca (II) Navarro de Gabay utilizó el mismo apellido de su abuela.
Francisca Navarro de Gabay es hija de Luís Tiscareño de Molina y Lorenza
Ruiz de Esparza, quien es hija de don Lope (II) Ruiz de Esparza y Ana
Francisca (I) Navarro de Gabay. Im sure youre aware about Lorenza de Esparza
being used as descendants names. There's a lots of Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza,
etc. So to answer your question Sebastiana would be Lope's great
grandaughter, he had MANY grandchildren as you may know! I hope this helps,
I think I have some stuff on Andrés but need to check! -Daniel

Hotmail/MSN/Live

It seems that the trouble people have been having with receiving emails
is due to Hotmail/MSN/Live.com putting a block on our Internet Service
Provider - Dreamhost.

Comentarios

Comentario

Joseph,

I just got off the line with the MSN specialist and they said I should start receiving your e-mails within the next 24 hours, and if not, that he would get his research team to work with Dreamhost on the problem.

Thanks,
Emilie

Comentario

Emilie many many thanks for taking the time to do this. I think this
will help tremendously for both sides to be "motivated" to get the
problem resolved. It is unfortunate that it is happening at all but
things like this happen from time to time.

Many thanks for your efforts.

joseph

======================

Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com wrote:
> Joseph,
>
> I just got off the line with the MSN specialist and they said I should
> start receiving your e-mails within the next 24 hours, and if not,
> that he would get his research team to work with Dreamhost on the
> problem.
>
> Thanks,
> Emilie
>
>

Comentario

Joseph,

I also use dreamhost to host my sites and I remember having the same problem
a couple of years ago with my @msn.com email. Dreamhost tried for a few days
to solve this problem and were unable to fix this issue with MSN, so I had
to switch to a @gmail.com email. I haven't had any problems since.

Just thought you should know.

Rick

-----Mensaje original-----
De: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Joseph
Puentes
Enviado el: Thursday, April 30, 2009 7:23 PM
Para: general@nuestrosranchos.org; auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Re MSN Live/Dreamhost

Emilie many many thanks for taking the time to do this. I think this
will help tremendously for both sides to be "motivated" to get the
problem resolved. It is unfortunate that it is happening at all but
things like this happen from time to time.

Many thanks for your efforts.

joseph

======================

Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com wrote:
> Joseph,
>
> I just got off the line with the MSN specialist and they said I should
> start receiving your e-mails within the next 24 hours, and if not,
> that he would get his research team to work with Dreamhost on the
> problem.
>
> Thanks,
> Emilie
>
>

Comentario

Thank you Joseph and every one responsible,I now receive e-mails

Ronnie Reynoso

> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:23:07 -0400
> From: makas@nc.rr.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org; auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Re MSN Live/Dreamhost
>
> Emilie many many thanks for taking the time to do this. I think this
> will help tremendously for both sides to be "motivated" to get the
> problem resolved. It is unfortunate that it is happening at all but
> things like this happen from time to time.
>
> Many thanks for your efforts.
>
> joseph
>
> ======================
>
> Joseph Puentes
> NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
> http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
> http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
> http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
> http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
> http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
> http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
> Genealogy)
>
>
>
> auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Joseph,
> >
> > I just got off the line with the MSN specialist and they said I should
> > start receiving your e-mails within the next 24 hours, and if not,
> > that he would get his research team to work with Dreamhost on the
> > problem.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Emilie
> >
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

Comentario

Joseph,

I just saw your message, and I had been on the line with a Resolution specialist at MSN that said they were not blocking Nuestros Ranchos from letting your e-mails come through. He also ran me through tests to show it was not my computer blocking Nuestros Ranchos either.

I am on the line with them again to tell them that you were told that Dreamhost, your new ISP, is being blocked by MSN Live.

I'll let you know what they say.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

Taking a Break

Hi, Everyone:

I wish to remain a member of Nuestros Ranchos, but I need to take a break
from being an active participant.

Problema

Problema con el correo.

Aparentemente el problema que han tenido algunos de los miembros, de no recibir el correo electronico, se debe a que los servicios de Hotmail/MSN/Live.com ha obstruido o blo

Comentarios

Comentario

Problema con el correo.

Aparentemente el problema que han tenido algunos de los miembros, de no recibir el correo electronico, se debe a que los servicios de Hotmail/MSN/Live.com ha obstruido o bloqueado a nuestro proveedor de servicio de internet, Dreamhost.

El mensaje que yo he recibido es de que estan tratando de quitar el bloqueo, pero eso se pude llevar " dias o semanas". Si se pueden esperar un tiempo, por favor lean el correo en nuestrosranchos.org. Si tienen un domicilio en Gmail o Yahoo, y si prefieren, mandenmelo junto con el nombre de usuario y yo cambiare el nombre en nuestro systema.

Les pido disculpa por las molestias.

Attentamente;
Joseph Puentes
http://nuestrosranchos.org

Ojuelos De Jalisco

Does any one know of a person located in Ojuelso De Jalisco that can help get some records or info over the phone? I need some B-Certificates from early years meaning 1913 and 1889.

Thanks

Gonzalez Surnames and Other Ancestries in Los Altos de Jalisco

John Gonzalez, Corrine Ardoin, and others,

In response to your inquiries about Gonzalez ancestries ....

Comentarios

Comentario

Efrain,

I'm interested in what you have on Francisco Gutierrez Rubio (1550 - ?), son
of Diego Gonzales de Hermosillo and Ana Gonzales Florida ....

I had thought that Francisco Gutierrez Rubio was married to Ana Gonzales
Florida - and that he was the son of Diego Gonzales de Hermosillo and Maria
Rubio ..... This was based solely on family search batch #F868025 Sheet:
047

I haven't had a chance to verify this information and so I'm curious as to
what you have and what the source is.

-Angelina-

Comentario

I have the same data as Angelina based on the same batch number #F868025
and the book Diccionario Biografico del Occidente Novohispano Siglo XVI by
Thomas Hillerkuss. I believe the batch is the work of the late Mr.
Holcombe. I have also not verified with any original source documents, but
took a chance based on the reliability of the two sources while waiting to
verify. I descend from this couple numerous times, as Francisco Gutierrez
Rubio and Ana Gonzales Florida are my 11th, 12th and 13th great-grandparents
depending on which line I follow. Based on their approximate date of
marriage of 1576 I don't think they could be 5th great-grandparents to
Efrain. We (Angelina and I) are probably looking at different generations.
Francisco Gutierrez Rubio and Ana Gonzales Florida were names that were
passed down several generations.

Maria Cortez
Sacramento, CA

Yo tengo los mismos datos que Angelina. Mis fuentes son el mismo batch
#F868025 y el libro Diccionario Biografico del Occidente Novohispano Siglo
XVI escrito por Thomas Hillerkuss. Creo que el batch fue proporcionado por
el Señor Holcombe. Yo tampoco he verificado las fuentes originales, pero
confié en el valor del trabajo de dos personas de respeto mientras espero
tener tiempo de verificar. Yo desciendo de esta pareja por muchas lineas,
ya que Francisco Gutierrez Rubio y Ana Gonzales Florida son mis 11, 12 y 13
tatarabuelos depende de que linea de ascendencia siga. Basandose uno a la
fecha aproximada que se casaron de 1576 no creo que fuese posible que sean
los 5tos tatarabuelos de Efrain. Yo pienso que estamos comparando otra
generacion. Francisco Gutierrez Rubio y Ana Gonzales Florida son nombres
que fueron repetidos por muchas generaciones.

Maria Cortez
Sacramento, CA

> From: "Angelina Markle"
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisco Gutierrez Rubio
> To:
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Efrain,
>
> I'm interested in what you have on Francisco Gutierrez Rubio (1550 - ?),
> son
> of Diego Gonzales de Hermosillo and Ana Gonzales Florida ....
>
> I had thought that Francisco Gutierrez Rubio was married to Ana Gonzales
> Florida - and that he was the son of Diego Gonzales de Hermosillo and Maria
> Rubio ..... This was based solely on family search batch #F868025 Sheet:
> 047
>
> I haven't had a chance to verify this information and so I'm curious as to
> what you have and what the source is.
>
> -Angelina-
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 10:15:16 -0700 (PDT)
> From: angelina@markleweb.com
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Citing Sources
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Message-ID:
> &nid=17741&pid=0&cid=15661&uid=2396&tid=
> 2&a8eaf31ded025cf3ea5de1c2351aaf10@www.nuestrosranchos.org<2%26a8eaf31ded025cf3ea5de1c2351aaf10@www.nuestrosranchos.org>
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I completely agree with Corrine. Our research is never completely done and
> if we wait to verify every single lead before we post our information on
> this site then where would we be? I personally prefer to see this work in
> progress which could perhaps connect me to someone that is persuing the same
> line, than wait indefintely for a more complete works. Yes, there will be
> errors, but it is also an opportunity to fix those errors and refine our
> work.
>
> -Angelina-
>
>
> ------------------------------
>

Comentario

Angelina,

You are correct, and I do have in my records (even though I erroneously
transposed mother/wife information in my previous e-mail) that Film No.
1396255 (Batch F868025) indicates that the Parents of Francisco Gutierrez
Rubio (1551 - ?) were Diego Gonzalez se Hermosillo and Maria Rubio ... and
that he married Ana Gonzalez Florida (1555 - ?) about 1576 in the Parroquia
Santa Maria de Los Lagos in Lagos de Moreno.

For additional information to any who may be interested, the Film also
indicates that Francisco and Ana had 6 children born in Jalostitlan:

Maria Gonzalez, ca. 1577
Miguel Gonzalez Rubio, ca. 1584
Ana Gonzalez Florida, ca. 1594
Francisco Gutierrez Rubio, ca. 1595
Diego Gonzalez Rubio, ca. 1597
Catalina Gonzalez Rubio, ca. 1597

Thank you for catching this error before it might have spread out and
confused others.

Efrain

> [Original Message]
> From: Angelina Markle
> To:
> Date: 4/23/2009 8:34:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisco Gutierrez Rubio
>
> Efrain,
>
> I'm interested in what you have on Francisco Gutierrez Rubio (1550 - ?),
son
> of Diego Gonzales de Hermosillo and Ana Gonzales Florida ....
>
> I had thought that Francisco Gutierrez Rubio was married to Ana Gonzales
> Florida - and that he was the son of Diego Gonzales de Hermosillo and
Maria
> Rubio ..... This was based solely on family search batch #F868025 Sheet:
> 047
>
> I haven't had a chance to verify this information and so I'm curious as to
> what you have and what the source is.
>
> -Angelina-
>

Comentario

Maria,

I just sent an e-mail to Angelina correcting my erroneous mother/wife
transposition about Francisco Gonzalez Rubio (1551 - ?), --- and confirming
that the three of us are in agreement with our data and sources.

Francisco and Ana were not my 5G-grandparents, they were 5th-grandparents
(also 6th and 7th) to my 6th-grandmother Maria Juana Ynez Maldonado
Lozano(1727 - 1744) that was the wife of Francisco Conrique (ca. 1720 - ?).

Thank you,

Efrain

> [Original Message]
> From: mcortez
> To:
> Date: 4/23/2009 5:36:36 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisco Gutierrez Rubio
>
> I have the same data as Angelina based on the same batch number #F868025
> and the book Diccionario Biografico del Occidente Novohispano Siglo XVI by
> Thomas Hillerkuss. I believe the batch is the work of the late Mr.
> Holcombe. I have also not verified with any original source documents,
but
> took a chance based on the reliability of the two sources while waiting to
> verify. I descend from this couple numerous times, as Francisco Gutierrez
> Rubio and Ana Gonzales Florida are my 11th, 12th and 13th
great-grandparents
> depending on which line I follow. Based on their approximate date of
> marriage of 1576 I don't think they could be 5th great-grandparents to
> Efrain. We (Angelina and I) are probably looking at different
generations.
> Francisco Gutierrez Rubio and Ana Gonzales Florida were names that were
> passed down several generations.
>
> Maria Cortez
> Sacramento, CA
>
> Yo tengo los mismos datos que Angelina. Mis fuentes son el mismo batch
> #F868025 y el libro Diccionario Biografico del Occidente Novohispano Siglo
> XVI escrito por Thomas Hillerkuss. Creo que el batch fue proporcionado
por
> el Se

Comentario

Hi Efrain et all who are doing the Gutiérrez Rubio clan. I have some different info, I did see the batch on familysearch you guys are talking about. The parents I had for don Francisco were Diego González de la Vega y María Rubio. I have a daughter for Francisco who appears I guess sometimes (her name is Leonor) as Leonor Gutiérrez de la Vega or simply as Leonor Rubio. My source is familysearch and another group called Genealogía de Méjico. Sorry I dont have concrete sources because this is info "back in the day" when I was beginning, i still am very lazy to add sources which it haunts me now because sometimes I dont remember where I got this or that, my next task will be sourcing everything on my PAF, it needs to be done. Thought I share this inconsistancy, please reply, I want to know why my info is different. I think Efrain stated Francisco was son of Diego G. de Hermosillo? how does Gutiérrez and Vega come in? -Daniel

Citing Sources & Our Posted Genealogies

About Citing Sources and Areas where they are not cited, or turn out to be
incorrect:

I understand what you are saying, in regards to finding, and hearing others
say, about family history genealo

Comentarios

Comentario

Hello everyone,

I completely agree with Corrine. Our research is never completely done and if we wait to verify every single lead before we post our information on this site then where would we be? I personally prefer to see this work in progress which could perhaps connect me to someone that is persuing the same line, than wait indefintely for a more complete works. Yes, there will be errors, but it is also an opportunity to fix those errors and refine our work.

-Angelina-

Comentario

hello Corrine,

I recently found out that my great grand mother was not Gonzalez-Guerra but
González Guerra, their grand parents were Epifanio Gonzales and Maria
Antonia Guerra, Epifanio came from Lagos (as it says in the marriage record
of their son Salvador González Guerra nov 9th, 1870), that´s all information
I got in this branch.

I don´t remember exactly what microfilm do you have, but I saw that many
people on this site have ancesters from Lagos de Moreno, I thought perhaps
some one can help me please!.

Thanks in advance.

Patty Haro

Acabo de enterarme que mi bisabuela no era González-Guerra sino González
Guerra, sus abuelos eran Epifanio Gonzales y Maria Antonia Guerra,
Epifanio venia de Lagos (como dice en la partida matrimonial de su hijo
Salvador González Guerra del 9 de noviembre de 1870), esa es toda la
información que tengo de esta rama.

No recuerdo que microfilm tienes, pero he visto que muchas personas tienen
ancestros originarios de Lagos de Moreno Jalisco, a lo mejor si tu no tienes
información sobre el, alguien mas pueda ayudarme por favor, porque ahora si
estoy atorada en esta rama.

Muchas Gracias de antemano.

Patty Haro

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:54 PM, Corrine Ardoin wrote:

> About Citing Sources and Areas where they are not cited, or turn out to be
> incorrect:
>
> I understand what you are saying, in regards to finding, and hearing others
> say, about family history genealogies that turn out to be partially
> incorrect, but they insist they are correct, because someone said it was
> so. Or, the information cannot be taken off that site, even if it is
> wrong,
> or whatever. Also, finding these on Family Search, family trees with no
> sources cited, marriages and births posted on there in perpetuity that are
> not verified as to where they got that information. And, I know for myself
> certain info provided is completely incorrect, but have no way of
> contacting
> whoever posted it.
>
> Well, I know I have learned my own lessons about this, as I have taken up
> the baton from my "dearly departed father" to carry on with our family
> history research, to make it a firm habit, whether I don't feel like it or
> what, to keep track of where I found each item as I go along. And, I'm
> still learning. So, I know how hard this is, the aspect of being thorough,
> keeping detailed records, etc. when I am looking through many, many sources
> at any given time. There are times, too, when I was beginnning this, that
> I
> just didn't know how thorough I needed to be until I had to reorder a
> film or tear through the papers and books again for where the heck I found
> that little information about a town or something. And, recalling when I
> began, how I sent out to all my family my first family tree chart, that I
> soon learned was full of incorrect information I believed was true, because
> my mother told it to me! And, was I going back to tell everyone? No,
> because my chart is always changing. Learning that Pioquinta Gonzalez was
> not of royalty from Spain, but of humble birth in the Huichol region of
> Jalisco, her own mother an Indian. And, too, Benigno Cabral was not from
> Portugal, not a sea captain, but was born in Jalisco, also. That was a
> valuable lesson learned. Do the research! Family stories are nice, but
> researching it to prove them or disprove them is absolutely necessary.
> It's
> all part of the journey and makes our books and memoirs we write someday
> more colorful when we add them in as "stories I was told by Grandma."
>
> So, yes, there are cheaters and crooks out there, even in this field, but I
> follow a few simple rules: don't take it as fact unless there is proof to
> back it up, do your own research, thoroughly, and cite your sources. But
> understand this, is it ever perfect? Or, is there room for human error,
> beginners just learning, and well-meaning but unprofessional family history
> buffs?
>
> This brings me to another point in regards to our posted genealogies on
> this
> site, the ones we are asked to do to be a member in this group. Citing our
> sources is not a requirement. These charts, lists, and family trees, some
> presented in a very professional manner, I believed are merely to let
> others
> in the group know what we have done so far and what our area of research
> is. Also, they are to hopefully connect us with others who are researching
> the same family. Does this make our information provided invalid, because
> we do not cite our sources, and, even return to them to update them, change
> them where we have found them to be incorrect or incomplete? Or, is
> it presumably understood that these are, like I said, merely guides to our
> area of research and that no one is planning on gleaning them for dates and
> names to add to their own family trees?
>
> I, for one, agree that it is imperative to keep track of and record our
> sources as we go along. I can truly appreciate thoroughly researched gold
> mines of family history information. But, I just wanted to point out that,
> *sometimes*, it is understood that what is there may have never been
> intended to be used as absolute fact, just a guide.
>
> And, hey, I just wanted to put my two cents worth in. Or, is it more like
> a
> quarter nowadays?
>
> Corrine Ardoin
> Still trucking here in Santa Maria, California reading the same microfilm
> for five months now and I'm still not done. Anyone have Gonzalez in their
> family tree?

Comentario

Hi Corrine,

I have a long line of Gonzalez's directly from my grandmother. They lived in Yahualica, Jalisco; registered there and before then--in Cuqio, Jalisco. The latest generation lived near Juchipila, Zacatecas before migrating to the US:

1930-1950
Gonzalez-Gamez

1890-1920
Gonzalez-Mercado

1870-1890
Gonzalez-Vasquez

1835-1860
Gonzalez-Lisarde (Elizalde)

1815-1825
Gonzalez-Ruiz

1780-1800
Gonzalez-Felix

c. 1760 (dead trail)
Gonzalez-Gomez

Let me know if you need additional info...or if you can provide same.

Good luck.

Comentario

Hi Claudia,

Who is the Ruiz from Yahualica in your line? I have lots of Ruizs from
Yahualica in my data base.

On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 3:14 PM, wrote:

> Hi Corrine,
>
> I have a long line of Gonzalez's directly from my grandmother. They lived
> in Yahualica, Jalisco; registered there and before then--in Cuqio, Jalisco.
> The latest generation lived near Juchipila, Zacatecas before migrating to
> the US:
>
> 1930-1950
> Gonzalez-Gamez
>
> 1890-1920
> Gonzalez-Mercado
>
> 1870-1890
> Gonzalez-Vasquez
>
> 1835-1860
> Gonzalez-Lisarde (Elizalde)
>
> 1815-1825
> Gonzalez-Ruiz
>
> 1780-1800
> Gonzalez-Felix
>
> c. 1760 (dead trail)
> Gonzalez-Gomez
>
> Let me know if you need additional info...or if you can provide same.
>
> Good luck.
>
>
>

Comentario

Hi Corrine:

I am "Gonzalez" which evolved from "Gonzalez de Hermosillo" from the
Jalostotitlán, Jalisco area. You can contact me directly at
1gnzlz@verizon.net

Thank you.

John Gonzalez.
Wildomar, CA.

> Corrine Ardoin
> Still trucking here in Santa Maria, California reading the same microfilm
> for five months now and I'm still not done. Anyone have Gonzalez in their
> family tree?
>

Jose vs Joseph

A few weeks ago there was considerable discussion about why the name Jose was written Joseph, and vice versa.

Comentarios

Comentario

In the records I am presently studying - Matrimonios of San José de
Gracia 1769-1783 - even the Parish name is written "Yglesia Parrochial
de el Pueblo de el Señor San Joseph de Gracia". Notice also the
spelling of Parroquial as Parrochial and the avoidance of the
contraction del. On some occasions Joseph is written in a slightly
truncated form, so that it looks like Joset or Josep. Josepha and
Phelipe also appear frequently.

--
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com

Comentario

George:

What year are the records you are talking about where people were signing Joseph while the priests were writing Jose?

Perhaps this was a sign of the priests being more "with the times" in adopting the orthographic reforms of the 1800s while the common people stuck to tradition. I imagine many people who were illiterate were taught to write their names in abbreviation for simplicity and the abbreviations went unchanged even when the full name spelling had undergone reform.

Comentario

Regarding Joseph and its use in old records and whether is derived from greek or latin, I found the following:

Latin
Josephum

Greek
Iosepos (Ιώσηπος)

Jaime

----- Original Message -----
From: gpf13@aol.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 7:23:20 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Joe vs Joseph

Arturo

This investigation took place in November 1785, and the marriage in January 1786.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

I found the following in a language forum (http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=522006). I took the liberty of editing the contributions by 'Forero" and "Ube"

José comes from the hebrew יוֹסֵף, pronounced "Yosef". In the New Testament it was used as Ιωσηφ, not Ιωσηφος which is the Greek version of the name. In Saint Jerome's revision of the Bible (5th century), latter known as " versio Vulgata " (13th century) and also in old Spanish, the use of the name was Joseph , whereas in formal Latin is Josephus o Josefus .

Jaime

A little late - Las Castas de Mexico

Hi there Joseph,

I know this is a little late on the subject but I thought some of the members might like this :

DE ESPANOL CON INDIA = MESTIZO DE CALPAMULATO CON CAMBUJO =TENTE EN EL AIRE

Comentarios

Comentario

Just a teaser about a great posting that was made to the albums section by Cristina Pedroza with an excerpt from an academic source on the caste system in Mexico and including photos of the various castes. I have taken the libery to use one of them as the third image for our rotating banner images on the site.

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/castas

The other one I recently added is a photo of my great-great-grandfather at the wedding of his youngest son in 1902 with the Totatiche landscape in the background. I am still open to receiving any more submissions.

Comentario

Hi there!

I like 'Ahi Te Estas"!!!

Mickey

-----Original Message-----
From: hombrepi@hotmail.com
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 7:03 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] A little late - Las Castas de Mexico

Hi there Joseph,

I know this is a little late on the subject but I thought some of the members
might like this :

DE ESPANOL CON INDIA = MESTIZO
DE CALPAMULATO CON CAMBUJO =TENTE EN EL AIRE
DE MISTIZO CON INDIA = COYOTE
DE TENTE EN EL AIRE CON MULATA = NO TE INTIENDO
DE MISTIZO CON ESPANOLA = CASTIZO DE
NO TE INTIENDO CON INDIA =TORNATRAS
DE CASTIZO CON ESPANOL = ESPANOL DE
ALBARAZADO CON COYOTE = BARCINO
DE ESPANOLOA CON NEGRO = MULATO DE
BARCINO CON MULATA =COYOTE
DE MULATO CON INDIA = LOBO
DE COYOTE CON INDIO =CHAMIZO
DE ESPANOL CON MULATA = MORISCO DE
CHAMIZO CON MESTIZA = COYOTE MESITZO
DE ESPANOL CON MORISCA = ALBINO O CHINO DE
COYOTE MESTIZO Y MULATA = AHI TE ESTAS
DE ESPANOL CON ALBINO O CHINO = TORNA ATRAS
DE INDIO O MULATO CON TORNA ATRAS = LOBO
DE LOBO CON CHINA = JIBARO
DE CAMBUJO O JIBARA CON MULATA = ALBARAZADO
DE ALBARAZADO CON NEGRA = CAMBUJO
DE CAMBUJO CON INDIA = ZAMBAIGO
DE ZAMBAIGO CON LOBOA = CALPAMULATO

Welester

_________________________________________________________________
Live Search: Better results, fast
http://get.live.com/search/overview

Comentario

My favorite is "Tente en el Aire" because I imagine it's like saying he/she was a result of "una canita al aire" (a fling). Ha, ha!

mmg8938@aol.com wrote: Hi there!

I like 'Ahi Te Estas"!!!

Mickey

-----Original Message-----
From: hombrepi@hotmail.com
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 7:03 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] A little late - Las Castas de Mexico

Hi there Joseph,

I know this is a little late on the subject but I thought some of the members
might like this :

DE ESPANOL CON INDIA = MESTIZO
DE CALPAMULATO CON CAMBUJO =TENTE EN EL AIRE
DE MISTIZO CON INDIA = COYOTE
DE TENTE EN EL AIRE CON MULATA = NO TE INTIENDO
DE MISTIZO CON ESPANOLA = CASTIZO DE
NO TE INTIENDO CON INDIA =TORNATRAS
DE CASTIZO CON ESPANOL = ESPANOL DE
ALBARAZADO CON COYOTE = BARCINO
DE ESPANOLOA CON NEGRO = MULATO DE
BARCINO CON MULATA =COYOTE
DE MULATO CON INDIA = LOBO
DE COYOTE CON INDIO =CHAMIZO
DE ESPANOL CON MULATA = MORISCO DE
CHAMIZO CON MESTIZA = COYOTE MESITZO
DE ESPANOL CON MORISCA = ALBINO O CHINO DE
COYOTE MESTIZO Y MULATA = AHI TE ESTAS
DE ESPANOL CON ALBINO O CHINO = TORNA ATRAS
DE INDIO O MULATO CON TORNA ATRAS = LOBO
DE LOBO CON CHINA = JIBARO
DE CAMBUJO O JIBARA CON MULATA = ALBARAZADO
DE ALBARAZADO CON NEGRA = CAMBUJO
DE CAMBUJO CON INDIA = ZAMBAIGO
DE ZAMBAIGO CON LOBOA = CALPAMULATO

Welester

_________________________________________________________________
Live Search: Better results, fast
http://get.live.com/search/overview

Comentario

This is hilarious! Thanks for sharing!!!

Lester Alvarado wrote: Hi there Joseph,

I know this is a little late on the subject but I thought some of the members might like this :

DE ESPANOL CON INDIA = MESTIZO DE CALPAMULATO CON CAMBUJO =TENTE EN EL AIRE
DE MISTIZO CON INDIA = COYOTE DE TENTE EN EL AIRE CON MULATA = NO TE INTIENDO
DE MISTIZO CON ESPANOLA = CASTIZO DE NO TE INTIENDO CON INDIA =TORNATRAS
DE CASTIZO CON ESPANOL = ESPANOL DE ALBARAZADO CON COYOTE = BARCINO
DE ESPANOLOA CON NEGRO = MULATO DE BARCINO CON MULATA =COYOTE
DE MULATO CON INDIA = LOBO DE COYOTE CON INDIO =CHAMIZO
DE ESPANOL CON MULATA = MORISCO DE CHAMIZO CON MESTIZA = COYOTE MESITZO
DE ESPANOL CON MORISCA = ALBINO O CHINO DE COYOTE MESTIZO Y MULATA = AHI TE ESTAS
DE ESPANOL CON ALBINO O CHINO = TORNA ATRAS
DE INDIO O MULATO CON TORNA ATRAS = LOBO
DE LOBO CON CHINA = JIBARO
DE CAMBUJO O JIBARA CON MULATA = ALBARAZADO
DE ALBARAZADO CON NEGRA = CAMBUJO
DE CAMBUJO CON INDIA = ZAMBAIGO
DE ZAMBAIGO CON LOBOA = CALPAMULATO

Welester

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documentation of information

Comentarios

Comentario

This is such a common problem with internet genealogy. It seems that many people do not understand citing sources, and do not know what are valid references. I have occassionally tried to contact some people that have posted genealogies, and I have gotten very mixed responses. These have varied from none, to rather indignant replies, like "I know it's correct because my grandmother told me."

Family tradition is fine; sometimes it has basis in fact, sometimes not. If something is an unverified tradition, then so state! Perhaps someone will have the data that substantiates it.

Some data is open to interpretation: look at it critically. If the data is only suggestive of a connection, then state it.

I try to verify information against real sources whenever possible.

The Petronila de Moctezuma/Martin Navarro situation is a case in point. You see a lot of posted genealogies with them, but the evidence is lacking. I have looked at several histories, including "Montezuma's Children" by Chipman, They are not mentioned at all. Why?

In summary: I would make a note of the connection, continue to do the research; and someday may be able to make the connection.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

In my opinion you should document where you got everything.
That way, you will always be able to re-evaluate your information by
looking at where you got it. I got a lot of information, for example,
from two family researchers. As time went on, I discovered that one of
these sources was very dependable and the other was full of errors.
Since I have documented where every piece of data came from, I can now
evaluate it intelligently. When I find new evidence, I know which I
can trust the most.

I have always been very wary of undocumented sources. I use them with
great care. Sometimes I have even been known to just throw them away,
because I would rather have less information that I am more sure of -
quality rather than quantity.

Everybody's database contains some junk. The problem is, what if you
can no longer remember which is junk and which is solid research? The
only way you can know is to document. It is one of the reasons I am
hesitant to share my work - because often when I have done so, the
receiver takes the whole thing, throws away all my carefully
documented source citations, and then re-publishes the tree, empty of
all source documentation and most of the comments. Well, some
of it was doubtful, but the documentation said so. Now it is
miss-represented as being all true and of equal weight!

--
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com

Comentario

I have had the same experiences that you wrote about.
When I first started out I did not document everything, or if I did, I did not put it into the computer with the rest of my work. Now I am going back and checking all inputted information and making sure that sources are with all data.
I have corrected errors that I had originally copied from reliable sources but have turned out to be wrong. In both of these instances the errors were made when I first stated collecting info and did not realize the importance of documenting all sources. I had blindly folowed someones work that did not have sufficient documentation.

Quality is the key to genealogy. I have put to much work and time to sabotage it all in the interest of quantity.

________________________________

From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Stuart Armstrong
Sent: Sun 4/19/2009 8:48 PM
To: gpf13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Documentation of Information

In my opinion you should document where you got everything.
That way, you will always be able to re-evaluate your information by
looking at where you got it. I got a lot of information, for example,
from two family researchers. As time went on, I discovered that one of
these sources was very dependable and the other was full of errors.
Since I have documented where every piece of data came from, I can now
evaluate it intelligently. When I find new evidence, I know which I
can trust the most.

I have always been very wary of undocumented sources. I use them with
great care. Sometimes I have even been known to just throw them away,
because I would rather have less information that I am more sure of -
quality rather than quantity.

Everybody's database contains some junk. The problem is, what if you
can no longer remember which is junk and which is solid research? The
only way you can know is to document. It is one of the reasons I am
hesitant to share my work - because often when I have done so, the
receiver takes the whole thing, throws away all my carefully
documented source citations, and then re-publishes the tree, empty of
all source documentation and most of the comments. Well, some
of it was doubtful, but the documentation said so. Now it is
miss-represented as being all true and of equal weight!

--
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com

Comentario

Thank you to those of you who responded to my question on documentation of research. I respect your opinions...
 
Linda in Everett

--- On Mon, 4/20/09, Ricci, Richard wrote:

I have had the same experiences that you wrote about.
When I first started out I did not document everything, or if I did, I did not
put it into the computer with the rest of my work. Now I am going back and
checking all inputted information and making sure that sources are with all
data.

Quality is the key to genealogy. I have put to much work and time to sabotage
it all in the interest of quantity.
---------------------

In my opinion you should document where you got everything.
That way, you will always be able to re-evaluate your information by
looking at where you got it. I got a lot of information, for example,
from two family researchers. As time went on, I discovered that one of
these sources was very dependable and the other was full of errors.
Since I have documented where every piece of data came from, I can now
evaluate it intelligently. When I find new evidence, I know which I
can trust the most.

I have always been very wary of undocumented sources. I use them with
great care. Sometimes I have even been known to just throw them away,
because I would rather have less information that I am more sure of -
quality rather than quantity.

Everybody's database contains some junk. The problem is, what if you
can no longer remember which is junk and which is solid research? The
only way you can know is to document. It is one of the reasons I am
hesitant to share my work - because often when I have done so, the
receiver takes the whole thing, throws away all my carefully
documented source citations, and then re-publishes the tree, empty of
all source documentation and most of the comments. Well, some
of it was doubtful, but the documentation said so. Now it is
miss-represented as being all true and of equal weight!

--
Best regards,
Stuart  

Comentario

Dear Researchers--

I have taught Beginning Hispanic Family History in years past and I have always told people that the need for documentation was the most important thing that they could learn from me.

I would like to add two items which I have not seen mentioned. First, whenever I write down my source, I always include the date it was given, along with the name of the person and usually their relationship to the person for whom the information is given. Sometimes, people in their later years, will develope dementia or other problems. I want my records to show if their information came at a time that they could correctly remember or if they might have had memory problems.

The second tip is to say "apparently" when writing about something which is unclear. For example, I will say "apparently Jose and Maria had 10 children". I might find later that they had more or less but I have not nailed myself down to one answer. By using the word "apparently", I have left the door open for future revelations and eventually the correct answer on children might become evident.

Sincerely,
Patricia Burton
San Diego

--- On Mon, 4/20/09, Erlinda Castanon-Long wrote:

> From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Documentation of Information
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Monday, April 20, 2009, 12:14 PM
> Thank you to those of you who responded to my question on
> documentation of research. I respect your opinions...
>  
> Linda in Everett
>
> --- On Mon, 4/20/09, Ricci, Richard
> wrote:
>
>
> I have had the same experiences that you wrote about.
> When I first started out I did not document everything, or
> if I did, I did not
> put it into the computer with the rest of my work. Now I am
> going back and
> checking all inputted information and making sure that
> sources are with all
> data.
>
> Quality is the key to genealogy. I have put to much work
> and time to sabotage
> it all in the interest of quantity.
> ---------------------
>
> In my opinion you should document where you got everything.
> That way, you will always be able to re-evaluate your
> information by
> looking at where you got it. I got a lot of information,
> for example,
> from two family researchers. As time went on, I discovered
> that one of
> these sources was very dependable and the other was full of
> errors.
> Since I have documented where every piece of data came
> from, I can now
> evaluate it intelligently. When I find new evidence, I know
> which I
> can trust the most.
>
> I have always been very wary of undocumented sources. I use
> them with
> great care. Sometimes I have even been known to just throw
> them away,
> because I would rather have less information that I am more
> sure of -
> quality rather than quantity.
>
> Everybody's database contains some junk. The problem
> is, what if you
> can no longer remember which is junk and which is solid
> research? The
> only way you can know is to document. It is one of the
> reasons I am
> hesitant to share my work - because often when I have done
> so, the
> receiver takes the whole thing, throws away all my
> carefully
> documented source citations, and then re-publishes the
> tree, empty of
> all source documentation and most of the comments. Well,
> some
> of it was doubtful, but the documentation said so. Now it
> is
> miss-represented as being all true and of equal weight!
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Stuart  
>
>
>

Comentario

this is nice!!
thanks for sharing
Yolanda Guerra

--- On Tue, 4/21/09, patricia burton wrote:

From: patricia burton
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Documentation of Information, Two tips
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 9:27 PM

Dear Researchers--

I have taught Beginning Hispanic Family History in years past and I have always told people that the need for documentation was the most important thing that they could learn from me. 

I would like to add two items which I have not seen mentioned.  First, whenever I write down my source, I always include the date it was given, along with the name of the person and usually their relationship to the person for whom the information is given.  Sometimes, people in their later years, will develope dementia or other problems.  I want my records to show if their information came at a time that they could correctly remember or if they might have had memory problems. 

The second tip is to say "apparently" when writing about something which is unclear.  For example, I will say "apparently Jose and Maria had 10 children".  I might find later that they had more or less but I have not nailed myself down to one answer.  By using the word "apparently", I have left the door open for future revelations and eventually the correct answer on children might become evident. 

Sincerely,
Patricia Burton
San Diego   

--- On Mon, 4/20/09, Erlinda Castanon-Long wrote:

> From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Documentation of Information
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Monday, April 20, 2009, 12:14 PM
> Thank you to those of you who responded to my question on
> documentation of research. I respect your opinions...
>  
> Linda in Everett
>
> --- On Mon, 4/20/09, Ricci, Richard
> wrote:
>
>
> I have had the same experiences that you wrote about.
> When I first started out I did not document everything, or
> if I did, I did not
> put it into the computer with the rest of my work. Now I am
> going back and
> checking all inputted information and making sure that
> sources are with all
> data. 
> 
> Quality is the key to genealogy. I have put to much work
> and time to sabotage
> it all in the interest of quantity.
>  ---------------------
>
> In my opinion you should document where you got everything.
> That way, you will always be able to re-evaluate your
> information by
> looking at where you got it. I got a lot of information,
> for example,
> from two family researchers. As time went on, I discovered
> that one of
> these sources was very dependable and the other was full of
> errors.
> Since I have documented where every piece of data came
> from, I can now
> evaluate it intelligently. When I find new evidence, I know
> which I
> can trust the most.
>
> I have always been very wary of undocumented sources. I use
> them with
> great care. Sometimes I have even been known to just throw
> them away,
> because I would rather have less information that I am more
> sure of -
> quality rather than quantity.
>
> Everybody's database contains some junk. The problem
> is, what if you
> can no longer remember which is junk and which is solid
> research? The
> only way you can know is to document. It is one of the
> reasons I am
> hesitant to share my work - because often when I have done
> so, the
> receiver takes the whole thing, throws away all my
> carefully
> documented source citations, and then re-publishes the
> tree, empty of
> all source documentation and most of the comments. Well,
> some
> of it was doubtful, but the documentation said so. Now it
> is
> miss-represented as being all true and of equal weight!
>
> --
> Best regards,
>  Stuart                            
>
>
>       

I am also Also not recieving posts

Hi Arturo, Its Daniel, I also have the same problem, I dont recieve any posts at all, what do I do. Many Thanks. mendezdelcamino@live.com

Comentarios

Comentario

Daniel and anyone else not receiving emails...

Can you please email Joseph and me at moderator [at] nuestrosranchos.org the details of when you stopped receiving messages and whether you changed anything in your Nuestros Ranchos account?

The first thing you should do if you have this problem is go into your spam folder and see if the mail is ending up there. If so, you will needs to add nuestrosranchos.org as a safe domain with your email provider so that the emails from the list bypass the spam filter.

PS In general you should address technical problems to the moderator email address rather than send them to the whole group via the mailing list.

Incorporation To Non-Profit Organization

I think it is an awesome endeavor to pursuit non-profit status.

Comentarios

Comentario

Anybody who is interested in being part of the committee to help make Nuestros Ranchos into a formal organization, please sign up for the new "Association" mailing list on the site. Simply log on to the site and click on "Mailing Lists" from the right hand menu.

Our first task will be to draw up bylaws for the Association so any ideas as to how officers are elected and any suggestions for the language regarding the purpose of the Association would be greatly appreciated.

ESPAÑOL

Cualquier persona quien esté interesada en ser parte del comité para convertir a Nuestros Ranchos en una organización formal, por favor registrese para la nueva lista de correo-e llamada "Association" en el sitio. Simplemente ingrese al sitio y haga click en "Listas de Correo-e" desde el menu del lado derecho.

Nuestra primera tarea será redactar reglamentios de la asociciación así que nos gustaría que nos comuniquen cualquer idea sobre cómo se eligirán los oficiales así como sugerencias sobre lenguage sobre el propósito de la asociación.

Sarmiento and Aguilar

Greetings to All.

I’m looking for information on Maria Bonificia Sarmento originaria de Sayula, Jalisco. Her parents were Juan Sn.

Comentarios

Comentario

Carlos:

Please provide dates (even if approximate) when making inquiries. What years (approximately) did Maria Bonifacia and Juan San Pedro Sarmiento live?

Names of people with no geographic or chronological context in genealogy are not very meaningful. Names were often repeated and the sources for information will vary greatly by the timeframe involved, so it is very important to always provide dates in inquiries, genealogies, etc.

Rafael Maldonado in Villa de Cos, Zacatecas

Jose:

Comentarios

Comentario

Jose Angel,?
I was looking at various Trees and note that we have Anacleto Gutierrez?
Casillas. Are your Anacleto's parents: Dionicio Gutierrez and Gertrudes?
Casillas? Is your Anacleto's wife Salome Padilla? He is my ggg?
grandfather! Pedro Gutierrez Padilla was my gg grandfather. My great?
grandfather was Jose Norberto Gutierrez, brother of your grandfather?
Epifamio Anacleto Gutierrez!?
If this is true, then you have hundreds of relatives in Sacramento who?
descend from Jose Norberto Gutierrez.??

Eloise Reyes?