paco_romo wrote:
>
> Second : Please guys help me here I'm in Iceland and some times in
Labrador (Canada), there is absolutly no way I can have any microfilms
ordered here can anyone tell me if you guys have any scans from this
To all:
I discovered today the the LDS church has posted images at the new Family Search Pilot site from the Aguascalientes, AGS, microfilms of baptisms, confirmations, deaths, marriages and matrimonial investigations. The period covered begins in the 1600s and extends to the early 1900s. The images are not by themselves searchable, but when used in conjunction with the IGI, it is very easy to find records of interest. The image quality is quite high; you can also download the images. The image quality is high enough that you can significantly enlarge the images for items of interest. This is a truly marvelous addition to their site!
Aquí está el enlace:
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/#p=0
Nada mas haz clic en el mapa de México y vete al final de la pagina y haz clic en el enlace de nombre, México, Aguascalientes, Catholic Church Records, 1616-1961
Here is the link:
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/#p=0
Just click on the map of México and scroll all the way to the bottom of the page and click on the link titled, México, Aguascalientes, Catholic Church Records, 1616-1961
He puesto un vinculo a la pagina de las imagenes de la microfilmacion de los registros de bautismo y matrimonio de Aguascalientes en la pagina de Vinculos en Nuestros Ranchos.
Tambien he puesto un vinculo a la pagina de los imagenes del censo de 1930 de Mexico.
Thank You! I am very happy to hear this, I am going to the website NOW! Most of my ancestors came from Aguas and Los Altos and Zacatecas Valles, I just call all of them Nueva Galicia or Los Altos all in general eventhough usually Los Altos usually refers to Jalisco but include the Alteño family of Zacatecas, Aguas Gto. and Michoacán. This is wonderful, I can acutally view entire films at home now to a specific place of my research, it would be conveniant for matching names and recordsbut this is a start! It can also svae me money from ordering films for Aguas. I think for all of us doing Aguas research take advantage of this great opportunity! -Daniel Camino
_________________________________________________________________
Color coding for safety: Windows Live Hotmail alerts you to suspicious email.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_sa…
Hola amigos, hace días que estoy aventajando una rama de mi árbol genealógico por el lado de la familia Salas de Bonilla.
Pues resulta que mi ancestros José Santiago Salas de Bonilla casó en Tepatitlán, Jalisco, pero era de Aguascalientes, y me puse a investigar en Aguascalientes y de ahí me lleva hasta Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco con Simón de Salas y Bonilla y Nicolasa de Anda Altamirano, pero quedé hasta ahí porque ya no encuentro nada sobre ésta pareja.
· Great great grandfather: Ciriaco Medina Aguilar, Birth June 20, 1846 Pinos, Zacatecas, San Matias Church. His parents on birth record: Espidiron Aguilar and Isabel Medina.
· Isabel Medina's' parents, Pedro Medina and Antonia Ponce.
Just a note to inform everyone that the book has been sold. Thanks to all
who expressed an interest.
Maria Cortez
Should there be anyone who would like to purchase a copy of Los Senores de Zacatecas, we have one available.
Carlos Yturralde
Hispanic Heritage Project
---- mcortez wrote:
> Just a note to inform everyone that the book has been sold. Thanks to all
> who expressed an interest.
>
> Maria Cortez
My name is Maria Cortez. I'm researching the Cortez, Alvarado, Hernandez, Ortiz family.
My grand parents name were Antonio Cortez Alvardo Hernandez maried to Ma- Manuela Alvarado Ortiz both born in Matansas de Jalisco around the year of 1909 and 1913.
Angelina, Eduardo,
Thanks! These links are great places to do research.
Gilbert Paez-Austin, TX
-----Original Message-----
From: announce-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:announce-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
Hello Everyone ,
I came across this site from another group it´s called Sologenealogia.com it´s from Venezuela . They have been extracting information for quite some time .
It shows List, Destinations, Fathers and what group they were in, Wives, Paper works and the years of the paper works.
As many of you probably already know there are XIV edited volumes of the "Pasajeros a indias" that deal with those who emigrated to "las Indias" between the years 1509 and 1701 these books are available for purchase from the "Archivo General de Indias". I looked up the cost of the last seven and they run about 135 Euros a peace. I found an excellent blog that tells how you can access the information in the books online. I have actually been using the website that is referred in the blog for quite some time. It is called, here is the URL: Pares.mcu.es and it is a tremendous treasure-trove of information.
the URL for the blog article is:
http://genealogiablog.blogspot.com/2008/06/pasajeros-indias-un-viaje-de…
good luck with your searching!
Eduardo,
Thank you! I knew of the existence of the PARES website - but I hadn't had
any luck navigating the it. This link very clearly explains how it works.
Thank you!
-Angelina-
Pares.mcu.es the URL for the blog article is:
http://genealogiablog.blogspot.com/2008/06/pasajeros-indias-un-viaje-de…
lla.html
Angelina,
You are welcome, I am also going to be writing an article about some of the
other aspects of Pares that I have found useful for research. I will inform
you when and where I will publish the article.
On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Angelina Markle wrote:
> Eduardo,
> Thank you! I knew of the existence of the PARES website - but I hadn't had
> any luck navigating the it. This link very clearly explains how it works.
> Thank you!
>
> -Angelina-
>
> Pares.mcu.es the URL for the blog article is:
>
> http://genealogiablog.blogspot.com/2008/06/pasajeros-indias-un-viaje-de…
> lla.html
>
IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
Mexico
Search Results | Download | Print
________________________________
NICULAS DE PEDROSA Pedigree
IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
Mexico
Search Results | Download | Print
________________________________
MICAELA PEDROSA ANDA Pedigree
IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
Mexico
Search Results | Download | Print
________________________________
JOSEPH HURTADO Pedigree
This is a very interestin site, I had already checked it and has a lot of information. Hope it is useful to everyone, for me only gave mi hints, but not real information that I can take as certain yet (mean, havent gone that far in my ivestigation).
I am not sure of your question....but if I can clarify some things....
Many village and town names were changed after the Revolutionary War. Most
especially, if the town or village was part of an hacienda or resulted
Esperanza,
Thank so much for the information on robados. The family lore has discussed the class conflict between this two lines of the family. You have clarified this wonderfully.
As for the change of town names, this is surely not the case here. Sierra de Pinos is the established name.
I guess I need to go back to PInos and not be so shy about asking questions. I visited in 1997.
Now my husband and I are retired but in the last 12 years I have new responsibilities and limitations, nine grandchildren of which we babysit 3. Now I have to schedule around them.
SOCAL
Sylvia Rodriguez Robles
I am having some trouble trying to place some of the Ruis de Esparza (or de Esparza) women into their families. I have the following:
Juana Ruis de Esparza m. Pedro Macias, 16 Sep 1678, Aguascalientes
Tuesday, January 20, 2009
Dear Daniel--
I would like to see this dispensa myself. Could you tell me what Microfilm it is on or in what book and on what page?
Many thanks.
Patricia Burton
San Diego, Ca.
Patricia,
An extraction from the "dispensa matrimonial" archived at the "Archivo de la Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara" can be found in Luz Montejano's book "Sagrada Mitra...". The original document consists of 12 sheets (12 fojas). The extraction reads as follows:
"Villanueva, Zac. Agosto 19 de 1700. Exp. 253.- Demanda de Promesa de Casamiento, e Información Matrimonial.- En Villa Gutierre del Aguila, se levantó la información de Agueda de Estrada, española, de 20 años de edad, vecina de Villa Gutierre del Aguila, feligresía de Santiago Xalpam, hija legítima de Leonor de Villagrán y de Hipólito de Estrada, difunto; contra Feliphe Alonso, español de 26 años de edad, soltero, originario de la Villa de Aguascalientes, vecino de esta feligresía, hijo legítimo de Joseph Alonso, ya difunto y de Theresa Ruiz de Esparza, vecina de dicha villa; por haberle dado su palabra de casamiento y tenido una hija y no haberle cumplido. Declaración del pretenso: Que el no haber puesto en ejecución dicho matrimonio es por haber tenido noticia de que la susodicha es su pariente en cuarto grado de consanguinidad. Declaración de Josepha de Ulloa, abuela de la pretensa de 70 años de edad: Poniendo por tronco y raiz a Lope Ruiz de Esparza, quien tuvo por hijos a Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza y a María Ruiz de Esparza, y Jacinto tuvo a Theresa Ruiz de Esparza, madre del pretenso, y María tuvo a Josepha de Ulloa, madre de Leonor de Villagran, asimismo madre de la pretensa, y a oído decir que Feliphe Alonso tuvo cópula ilícita con una tía de la pretensa e hija de esta declarante. Se declaró no ser suficientes las dichas causas, y en su consecuencia no haber lugar para la dispensación de dichos impedimentos de cuarto grado de consanguinidad y de primero con segundo grado de afinidad por cópula ilícita, y mandó se notifique a los contenidos con pena de descomunión mayor y estén separados y en ninguna manera se junten ni traten. 12 fojas."
Bill Figueroa
----- Original Message -----
From: "patricia burton"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:02 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Source please for ... Ana Dominguez de Inojosfrom Daniel
Tuesday, January 20, 2009
Dear Daniel--
I would like to see this dispensa myself. Could you tell me what Microfilm it is on or in what book and on what page?
Many thanks.
Patricia Burton
San Diego, Ca.
If your asking about the connection of Felipe and Pedro Alonso not sure, but he should be a grandchild
Pedro Alonso de los Hinojos was the patriarch was he not? through microfilm Ive seen, maybe Bill can
elaborate? -Daniel P.S. I can type the actual full dispensa if anyone wants it.
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_fa…
Sure Patricia! I used María Luz Montejano Hilton's "Sagrada Mitra de la Guadalajara"
The "Dispensa" took place August 19 1700, for Felipe Alonso de los Hinojos y Agueda
de Estrada is on page 561 and entry # 2186 it should state the place as Villanueva,
Zac. If you want it on film I guess it's this where it says rollo 168358 OAH 264 pt. 2
Matrimonios Hojas Sueltas, 1636-1707, 2da serie. 19 de agosto de 1700. The reason
for the dispensa was because Felipe and Agueda were 2nd cousins 1 removed
both descending from Lope Ruiz de Esparza: Here is the chart
Lope Ruiz de Esparza
Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza María Ruiz de Esparza
Teresa Ruiz de Esparza Josepha Márquez de Ulloa
Felipe Alonso de los Hinojos Leonor de Villagrán y Ulloa
(pretenso)
Agueda de Estrada (pretensa)
(prob. y Bocanegra but need to look into this.)
-I hope this proves useful to you! Daniel Camino
_________________________________________________________________
Get 5 GB of storage with Windows Live Hotmail.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_5g…
........................
El Colegio de San Luis A. C., el H. Ayuntamiento de Pinos y la Universidad
Autónoma de Zacatecas tienen el honor de invitar a la presentación del
libro:
De las mieles al mezcal. Haciendas y ranchos mezcaleros en Pinos, Zacatecas
The ISBN number is perhaps incorrect. I run it on the compuer and get invalid ISBN #.
Sylvia Rodriguez Robles
Sylvia Rodriguez Robles
My family is from Pinos. I visited Pinos in 1997. I have some cousins- first cousins twice removed--Bertha and Linda Aguilar. They were involved in preserving the rich historical history, with the now deceased Dr. Gorgonio??
This is exciting, how may I obtain this book?
---------- Mensaje reenviado ----------
De: La Sociedad Genealogica del Norte de Mexico <
samuelsanchez@genealogia.org.mx>
Fecha: 13 de noviembre de 2008 15:57
Asunto: libro Haciendas y ranchos mezcaleros en Pinos, Zac.
Para: announce@nuestrosranchos.org
Contacto: margil_canizales@yahoo.com.mx
........................
El Colegio de San Luis A. C., el H. Ayuntamiento de Pinos y la Universidad
Autónoma de Zacatecas tienen el honor de invitar a la presentación del
libro:
De las mieles al mezcal. Haciendas y ranchos mezcaleros en Pinos, Zacatecas
(1890-1930) de Margil de Jesús Canizales Romo, impreso en México y
coediatado por el Colegio de San Luis A. C. y el H. Ayuntamiento de Pinos
Zacatecas, 2008. 226 pp. Incluye archivo fotográfico. ISBN: 970-762-032-3
Fecha: 13 de noviembre de 2008, 19 horas
Lugar: Foyer del teatro Fernando Calderón Av. Hidalgo S/N zona centro
(Frente al Mercado González Ortega) Zacatecas, Zacatecas.
Comentan:
Dr. Carlos Rubén Ruiz Medrano El Colegio de San Luis
Mtro. Edgar Hurtado Hernández UAZ
Mtro. Ángel Román Gutiérrez UAZ
Modera: Mtra Norma Gutiérrez Hernández UAZ
Esta obra analiza la dinámica socioeconómica de las haciendas y ranchos
productores de mezcal en el partido de Pinos, Zacatecas, durante los años
de 1890 a 1930. A fin de proporcionar una visión completa del desarrollo de
esta industria agrícola, el autor aborda diferentes tópicos
interrelacionados, tales como las formas de tenencia de la tierra y las
modalidades de administración dentro de las fincas mezcaleras. Así mismo,
realiza un estudio de la estructura de producción y la comercialización del
mezcal; en la última parte del libro, analiza las relaciones sociolaborales
que se establecieron y permitieron el funcionamiento de haciendas y ranchos
mezcaleros.
ÍNDICE
CAPÍTULO I. CONFORMACIÓN HISTÓRICA DEL PARTIDO DE PINOS Y LA RELACIÓN
INTERSECTORIAL
1. Antecedentes del partido de Pinos
2. Condiciones geográficas y climáticas
3. El partido de Pinos durante el porfiriato
4. La minería
5. La ganadería
6. La agricultura
7. Población: rasgos generales
CAPÍTULO II. HACENDADOS Y ESTRUCTURA AGRARIA EN EL PARTIDO DE PINOS
1. Tenencia de la tierra en la municipalidad de Pinos
2. Movilidad en la propiedad y grupos generacionales de propietarios
- Primer grupo generacional
- Segundo grupo generacional
- Conflictos entre las haciendas
3. Los Hacendados y la administración empresarial
- La administración de las haciendas
- Hacienda Santa Ana
- San Martín, Santiago, La Trinidad y San Nicolás
- La Pendencia
- Espíritu Santo
4. El arrendamiento y la administración
CAPÍTULO III. EL SISTEMA DE PRODUCCIÓN DEL MEZCAL
1. Antecedentes de la producción de mezcal en el partido de Pinos
2. Estructuras, edificios e instalaciones
- Las instalaciones fabriles
- Agua: pozos estanques y norias
- La Pendencia en la modernidad
3. Abasto de insumos: la lógica de explotación
4. El proceso de producción
- El corte del maguey
- La "tatema" de las piñas
- La molienda
- Fermentación y destilación
Capítulo IV. Política fiscal, producción y mercado
1. Disposiciones gubernamentales frente a la producción del mezcal
- La política fiscal durante el porfiriato
- La reestructuración en el cobro de impuestos en el régimen revolucionario
2. Producción de mezcal en haciendas y rancho
- La producción
- Los ingresos de las haciendas
- Precios de los productos
- El comercio del mezcal
CAPÍTULO V. LOS TRABAJADORES DEL MEZCAL
1. Mercado de trabajo en el Partido de Pinos
- Demanda de mano de obra en las haciendas y ranchos
2. Estratificación de los trabajadores y las condiciones de trabajo
- Trabajadores externos
- Trabajadores internos
3. Formas de remuneración y condiciones extralaborales
- Derechos de montes y pastos
- Acceso a la tierra de las haciendas y ranchos
4. Mecanismos de la retención de mano de obra y situaciones coercitivas
- Las deudas de los trabajadores
- Medidas coercitivas de trabajo
- Deudas de las fincas contraídas con los empleados
EPÍLOGO
CONCLUSIONES
--
Benicio Samuel Sanchez Garcia
Presidente de la Sociedad Genealogica del Norte de Mexico
http://www.Genealogia.org.mx
http://www.GenealogiaMolecular.com
Cel: 04481-1667-2480
"Haz tu Arbol Genealogico...El Arbol mas Hermoso de la Creacion"
--
Benicio Samuel Sanchez Garcia
Presidente de la Sociedad Genealogica del Norte de Mexico
http://www.Genealogia.org.mx
http://www.GenealogiaMolecular.com
Cel: 04481-1667-2480
"Haz tu Arbol Genealogico...El Arbol mas Hermoso de la Creacion"
Hiya guys ,
Here is a good google site for historical images .
Welester
http://images.google.com/hosted/life
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_fa…
ESPERANZA VILLARREAL, I am looking for the Villareal family members from Zacatecas going north to Chihuahua or Coahulia. My ancestor Juana Villarreal was from Jalpa, Zac. born about 1877 daugther of Juan Villarreal and Dionisia Salas. I wonder if you have some information about them and who are your ancestors in the Villarreal line. I could not see your file here al Nuestros Ranchos.
Hi, Alessandro,
I posted only my files from Zacatecas (Herrera/Luna).
My Villarreal line comes from Coahuila, that can be traced to Nuevo Leon.
According to Danny Villarreal (check out his web site), there were 3 brothers
who settled in Nuevo Leon - it appears I am related to two of the brothers,
one who stayed in Nuevo Leon near Monterrey and another who settled in
Tamaulipas area.
There is some speculation that there were at least two other Villarreal
families that settled early on (according to one of our members). One that
settled in Zacatecas and one that settled in Oaxaca. One of the members of our
site is also a Villarreal from Zacatecas .He suspects this Villarreal line
might have a connection to the Nuevo Leon line.
Why not post your question on the board? I visited Zacatecas many moons
ago, and know that there is a definite old Villarreal line from Zacatecs - one
played a major role in the battle of the "bufa".
Anyway, if you have lines that settled in Coahuila - this might indeed be
interesting. Let's share.
Esperanza
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir…
cemailfooterNO62)
Thank you for replaying that fast Esperanza, I was surprised.
I understand what you say about Villarreales in Nuevo Leon and the area, I have the hint that my Villarreal goes to that area, so probably we are connected in some point. I also would like to know about that web page you mention for david Villarreal.... where can I see that? whats the link? There is not a David Villarreal at Nuestros Ranchos.
Ok Esperanza, hope to know about you soon again. And thank you again.
Sincerely
LIC. ALESSANDRO VITELA
Ser de Luz!!!> From: Latina1955@aol.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:23:46 -0500> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] VILLARREAL FAMILY/ ESPERANZA VILLARREAL> > Hi, Alessandro,> > I posted only my files from Zacatecas (Herrera/Luna).> > My Villarreal line comes from Coahuila, that can be traced to Nuevo Leon. > According to Danny Villarreal (check out his web site), there were 3 brothers > who settled in Nuevo Leon - it appears I am related to two of the brothers, > one who stayed in Nuevo Leon near Monterrey and another who settled in > Tamaulipas area. > > There is some speculation that there were at least two other Villarreal > families that settled early on (according to one of our members). One that > settled in Zacatecas and one that settled in Oaxaca. One of the members of our > site is also a Villarreal from Zacatecas .He suspects this Villarreal line > might have a connection to the Nuevo Leon line. > > Why not post your question on the board? I visited Zacatecas many moons > ago, and know that there is a definite old Villarreal line from Zacatecs - one > played a major role in the battle of the "bufa".> > Anyway, if you have lines that settled in Coahuila - this might indeed be > interesting. Let's share.> > Esperanza> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir…; cemailfooterNO62)> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
_________________________________________________________________
Encuentra lo último de tus contactos en la parte de "novedades" de Messenger
http://download.live.com/messenger
Hello,
I just joined the list last week. Gutierres is one of my two main lines of
research, in Jalisco:
Gutierres (also found as Gutierres Rubio) in Tepatitlan, at Hacienda El
Salto. Many of the following details are as yet unconfirmed, and I am hoping
Hi guys:
I'm new to the list as well, even though I have been researching for quite some time now, Yesterday I did a breakthrough on my line,, I Just found in this site on the seccion "Files" that Our friend listed on files as: "Gutierrez, Maria E. (Jalostotitlan, San Juan De Los Lagos, San Miguel El Alto, Lagos De Moreno, Jalisco y Aguascalientes)" has this file called "Cirilo Gutierrez (Cirilo Gutierrez.doc)" and for my surprise, I found that we had a common ancestor named Mariano Gutíerrez, born Bet. 1817 - 1821 in El Aguila, Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; married Marta Placensia 15 Feb 1841 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.
I was completly stuck in this ancestor of mine for quite a while, All I could found before was that his parents were Julian Gutierrez an Paula Muñoz and his date of marriage, which for my pleasure was the same!! as the one she had listed.
Having found this, It just made me took a huge leap in my investigation because it took me all the way back to my ancestor (according to this document) Diego Gonzalez-De-Hermosillo, born Abt. 1529 in Spain or portugal. He married 1025. Maria Rubio.
Parents of . Francisco Gutierrez-Rubio, born Abt. 1551
Wow!!! I was blown away...
This group has given me so much help that I just can not express how grateful I am.
Guys this took me directly to so many questions that I dont know if any one can help me from here , Please consider that I'm new and some questions might be so obvious for some ok? :) jijiji
First:
Where . Francisco Gutierrez-Rubio, born Abt. 1551 took the last name Gutierrez ??? given the fact that his father was Diego Gonzalez-De-Hermosillo was there any standars about the use of surnames back then, that I do not know about yet???
Second : Please guys help me here I'm in Iceland and some times in Labrador (Canada), there is absolutly no way I can have any microfilms ordered here can anyone tell me if you guys have any scans from this same "Spanish Trunk" records??
And finally can somebody tell me what are the sources of all this ?? I mean besides microfilms, are there any books, Links and so on that I can cite on my research??.
Thank you all, and again, god bless you guys this site is the best !!!! this is how the internet should be put to work!!!!!...
Regards!!!
Hello Paco and others from this line,
I just want to add my thanks for all the help on my (husband's) Gutierres line since we joined the list just 1 week ago. I had never expected to obtain so much info so quickly! If only I could find so much interest on our Cadena line.....
I do have copies (and can make scans) of the church christening records of 5 children of Miguel Gutierres Rubio (b. 1658) and his wife Ana Flores de Alba (b. 1665). Also of most children of Miguel Gutierres (b. 1698) and his wife Gertrudis Rovalcaba (b. 1711). Same for children of Jose Migeul Gutierres (b. 1738) and his wife Francisca Flores (b. 1756). And for the children of Jose Antonio Gutierres (b. 1785) and his wife Maria Josefa Ybanez.
Susan Cadena
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of paco_romo
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 9:48 AM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] I just found we have the same Line!!!
Hi guys:
I'm new to the list as well, even though I have been researching for quite some time now, Yesterday I did a breakthrough on my line,, I Just found in this site on the seccion "Files" that Our friend listed on files as: "Gutierrez, Maria E. (Jalostotitlan, San Juan De Los Lagos, San Miguel El Alto, Lagos De Moreno, Jalisco y Aguascalientes)" has this file called "Cirilo Gutierrez (Cirilo Gutierrez.doc)" and for my surprise, I found that we had a common ancestor named Mariano Guterrez, born Bet. 1817 - 1821 in El Aguila, Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; married Marta Placensia 15 Feb 1841 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.
I was completly stuck in this ancestor of mine for quite a while, All I could found before was that his parents were Julian Gutierrez an Paula Muoz and his date of marriage, which for my pleasure was the same!! as the one she had listed.
Having found this, It just made me took a huge leap in my investigation because it took me all the way back to my ancestor (according to this document) Diego Gonzalez-De-Hermosillo, born Abt. 1529 in Spain or portugal. He married 1025. Maria Rubio.
Parents of . Francisco Gutierrez-Rubio, born Abt. 1551
Wow!!! I was blown away...
This group has given me so much help that I just can not express how grateful I am.
Guys this took me directly to so many questions that I dont know if any one can help me from here , Please consider that I'm new and some questions might be so obvious for some ok? :) jijiji
First:
Where . Francisco Gutierrez-Rubio, born Abt. 1551 took the last name Gutierrez ??? given the fact that his father was Diego Gonzalez-De-Hermosillo was there any standars about the use of surnames back then, that I do not know about yet???
Second : Please guys help me here I'm in Iceland and some times in Labrador (Canada), there is absolutly no way I can have any microfilms ordered here can anyone tell me if you guys have any scans from this same "Spanish Trunk" records??
And finally can somebody tell me what are the sources of all this ?? I mean besides microfilms, are there any books, Links and so on that I can cite on my research??.
Thank you all, and again, god bless you guys this site is the best !!!! this is how the internet should be put to work!!!!!...
Regards!!!
Hi Susan!
Welcome and good luck on your search for your family treasures.
Your introduction and David's response compelled me to share something I
recently received.
Can anyone verify the following information I received from my Tia in
Jalostotilan regarding the original families from Jalos:
Francisco Gutierrez Rubio (El Viejo) Florida & Ana Gonzalez Florida the
First (I*)
(*note there was a mother, daughter and a granddaughter with the same name
Ana Gonzalez Florida.) This marriage resulted in the following six families
& the following descendants:
Ana Gonzalez Florida II married Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo-Munoz, son of
Juan Gonzalez Hermosillo and Maria Munoz, resulting in the Gonzalez de
Hermosillo Family in the region.
Captain Miguel Gutierrez Rubio married Leonor de Hermosillo, daughter of
Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo and Maria Munoz, who is Juan Gonzalez de
Hermosillo's sister resulting in the Gutierrez de Hermosillo Family in the
region.
Catalina Gutierrez Rubion (also appeared like Gonzalez de la Reguera)
married Francisco Munoz del la Bara, resulting in the Munoz de la Barba
Family in the region.
Diego Gonzalez Rubio (I) married Polonia de Torres, daughter of Nicolas
Ramirez and Polonia de Torres, two of the first residents of Aguascalientes,
resulting in the Gonzalez Rubio Family in the region.
Maria Gonzalez Munoa de Aceves married Juan de Aceves which resulted in the
Aceves Family in the region.
Captain Francisco Gutierrez Rubio (II) El Mozo, married Francisca Hurtado de
Mendoza y Olivares, daughter of Rodrigo de Olivares and Maria Hurtado de
Mendoza, which formed the Gutierrez de Mendoza Family which later resulted
in the
Gutierrez de Laris Family.
Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo (I) married Maria Munoz in which 5 families
emerged:
Leonor de Hermosillo was born in 1588 married Captain Gutierrez Rubio, son
of Francisco Gutierrez Rubio (El Viejo) and Ana Gonzalez Florida (I), the
Gutierrez de Hermosillo family.
Teresa Gonzalez de Hermosillo (born 1589) married Silvestre Camacho Riguleme
forming the Camacho Riguelme Family.
Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo (II) (born 1591) married Ana Gonzalez Florida
(II) daughter of Francisco Gutierrez Rubio (El Viejo) and Ana Gonzalez
Florida (I) forming the
Gonzalez de Hermosillo family.
Beatriz de Hermosillo (born 1593) married Juan de Aceves, forming the Aceves
Family (
Diego Alonso del Pedroso y Hermosillo (born 1598) married Paula de Torres
daughter of Nicolas Ramirez & Polonia de Torres, of the original families
in Aguascalientes. This family had seven children. Only four had
descendents.
Garcia de Hermosillo (owners of Papalote in Jalos)
Gonzalez de Hermosillo (La familia Ramirez de Coca y el Saus de los Ramirez
who took the last name Ramirez (maternal grandfather Nicolas Ramirez) and
not Gonzaslez/Gonzalez
and the Aceves family through the grandson Juan Munoz de Aceves.
Toribio Hernandez de Arellano who married Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza,
neighbors of the Villa de Santa Maria de los Lagos, (born in 1540 or 1550)
had four daughters.
Isabel de Mendoza (born 1568) married Alvaro de Ornelas
resulting in the Ornelas y Mendoza Family.
They were married in Lagos on October 29, 1586.
Their children formed the Marquez de los Olivos Family &
and the Aguirre and Cervantes Family.
Ana Sanchez de Mendoza (born 1570) married Juan Becerra.
They had two children and through their grandchildren formed the Lopes de
Elizalde, Ramas de Ags, San Juan de los Lagos and Ayo el Chico, and Aceves y
Gutierrez de Hermosillo de Tepatitlan in the Cerro Gordo with many
descendants.
Marta Sanchez de Mendoza married Juan Sanchez de Lara
on May 26, 1587 in San Juan de los Lago
resulting in the Sanchez, Orozco and Ramos family names.
Maria Hurtado de Mendoza married Rodrigo de Olivares, neighbor of
Jalostotilan at the end of the sixteenth century and early seventeenth
century.
They had five children and only four had descendents which resulted in the
Ramirez de Mendoza, Padilla Davila, Gutierrez de Laris, Lomelin, Gomez,
Hurtado de Mendoza, Jimenez de Mendoza all of which had many children in the
region.
One of which is Catalina Hurtado de Mendoza who married Manuel Gomez and the
other sister married Juan Jimenez who had a daughter who married Nicolas
Jimenez. They formed the Gomez y Jimenez families with many descendants in
Jalostotitlan and the surround region.
With much appreciation to all of you for all of your wisdom and continued
guidance.
BTW can someone provide me with the details about the Sacramento meeting
next Saturday?
Thanks in advance!
Rosa
San Francisco, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Susan and
Joe Cadena
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 3:54 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction - Gutierres in Jalisco
Hello,
I just joined the list last week. Gutierres is one of my two main lines of
research, in Jalisco:
Gutierres (also found as Gutierres Rubio) in Tepatitlan, at Hacienda El
Salto. Many of the following details are as yet unconfirmed, and I am hoping
other members may have suggestions for sources: I have gotten as far back as
Francisco Gutierres Rubio who was married to Juana Lomelin. Francisco died
about 1691/2. His children were born between 1652 and 1658: Francisca
(1652), Lazaro (1654), Leonor (1656) and Miguel (1658). They were espanoles.
Miguel Gutierres Rubio is the direct ancestor. He was possibly the owner
(dueno) of Hacienda El Salto. He married Ana Flores de Alba about 1686. He
died Oct 1727. His children were Luisa (Apr 1687), Ana and Cristobal (twins,
July 1689), Francisco Xavier (Aug 1681) and Miguel (1697/8).
Miguel Gutierres was again the direct ancestor. He married Gertrudis de
Rovalcaba y Agundiz, after which he lived at Hacienda La Calle. Gertrudis
was born Mar 1711 at Zapotlanejo; she was from Hacienda El Tempisque in
Tepatitlan at the time of her marriage (24 Jun 1728 at Tepatitlan). The
couple had at least 10 children, and I have found the birth entry in church
books for all but one - the direct ancestor, Jose Miguel Gutierres born
about 1738. At this point the family was at Santa Clara near Ocotlan. I
believe there was a Santa Clara de Zula northeast of Ocotlan, as well as a
rancho named Santa Clara in Ocotlan. I do not know which one the Gutierres
family lived at.
Jose Miguel Gutierres married Francisca Xaviera Flores at Ocotlan May 1772.
They had at least 9 children, all born at Rancho Santa Clara, Ocotlan, and
again the direct ancestor is the only one for whom I've been unable to find
a birth record: Jose Antonio Gutierres, born about 1785. He married Maria
Josefa Ybanez of Santa Anita, but I've been unable to find a marriage record
in Ocotlan or Santa Anita. First child was born 1811, so I suspect marriage
around 1809-10. The children were all born in Santa Anita or (nearby?)
Rancho de la Calera. Here too the direct ancestor is the only one for whom
I've been unable to find a birth record: Reymundo Gutierres born about 1815
in Santa Anita. He married Maria Francisca Romana Cadena in Guadalajara May
1840. (I'll continue with the Cadena line in a separate e-mail.)
The direct ancestors I'm really seeking above seem to be successfully
eluding me thus far. Are there any sources besides the Church that I can
turn to? Does anyone know of the ranchos I've mentioned and possibly have
information about them from this period? And finally, does anyone have
suggestions for how I can go further back in time in Jalisco - into the
1600's - and eventually make the leap from Jalisco to Spain? I would
appreciate any help - thank you in advance.
Susan Cadena
Hello Rosa,
Thank you for your post responding to my search for Gutierres with info on
the family in the Jalostotitlan area. I think your tia gave you some pretty
accurate info - I have a Xerox copy of a couple pages excerpted from the
book "Retonos de Espana en la Nueva Galicia" which gives the same info and a
bit more. I would be happy to scan what I have and e-mail to you privately.
(I assume that attachments are not accepted on the list.)
Susan
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Rosa
Gonzalez
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 10:41 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction - Gutierres in Jalisco
Hi Susan!
Welcome and good luck on your search for your family treasures.
Your introduction and David's response compelled me to share something I
recently received.
Can anyone verify the following information I received from my Tia in
Jalostotilan regarding the original families from Jalos:
Francisco Gutierrez Rubio (El Viejo) Florida & Ana Gonzalez Florida the
First (I*)
(*note there was a mother, daughter and a granddaughter with the same name
Ana Gonzalez Florida.) This marriage resulted in the following six families
& the following descendants:
Ana Gonzalez Florida II married Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo-Munoz, son of
Juan Gonzalez Hermosillo and Maria Munoz, resulting in the Gonzalez de
Hermosillo Family in the region.
Captain Miguel Gutierrez Rubio married Leonor de Hermosillo, daughter of
Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo and Maria Munoz, who is Juan Gonzalez de
Hermosillo's sister resulting in the Gutierrez de Hermosillo Family in the
region.
Catalina Gutierrez Rubion (also appeared like Gonzalez de la Reguera)
married Francisco Munoz del la Bara, resulting in the Munoz de la Barba
Family in the region.
Diego Gonzalez Rubio (I) married Polonia de Torres, daughter of Nicolas
Ramirez and Polonia de Torres, two of the first residents of Aguascalientes,
resulting in the Gonzalez Rubio Family in the region.
Maria Gonzalez Munoa de Aceves married Juan de Aceves which resulted in the
Aceves Family in the region.
Captain Francisco Gutierrez Rubio (II) El Mozo, married Francisca Hurtado de
Mendoza y Olivares, daughter of Rodrigo de Olivares and Maria Hurtado de
Mendoza, which formed the Gutierrez de Mendoza Family which later resulted
in the
Gutierrez de Laris Family.
Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo (I) married Maria Munoz in which 5 families
emerged:
Leonor de Hermosillo was born in 1588 married Captain Gutierrez Rubio, son
of Francisco Gutierrez Rubio (El Viejo) and Ana Gonzalez Florida (I), the
Gutierrez de Hermosillo family.
Teresa Gonzalez de Hermosillo (born 1589) married Silvestre Camacho Riguleme
forming the Camacho Riguelme Family.
Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo (II) (born 1591) married Ana Gonzalez Florida
(II) daughter of Francisco Gutierrez Rubio (El Viejo) and Ana Gonzalez
Florida (I) forming the
Gonzalez de Hermosillo family.
Beatriz de Hermosillo (born 1593) married Juan de Aceves, forming the Aceves
Family (
Diego Alonso del Pedroso y Hermosillo (born 1598) married Paula de Torres
daughter of Nicolas Ramirez & Polonia de Torres, of the original families
in Aguascalientes. This family had seven children. Only four had
descendents.
Garcia de Hermosillo (owners of Papalote in Jalos)
Gonzalez de Hermosillo (La familia Ramirez de Coca y el Saus de los Ramirez
who took the last name Ramirez (maternal grandfather Nicolas Ramirez) and
not Gonzaslez/Gonzalez
and the Aceves family through the grandson Juan Munoz de Aceves.
Toribio Hernandez de Arellano who married Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza,
neighbors of the Villa de Santa Maria de los Lagos, (born in 1540 or 1550)
had four daughters.
Isabel de Mendoza (born 1568) married Alvaro de Ornelas
resulting in the Ornelas y Mendoza Family.
They were married in Lagos on October 29, 1586.
Their children formed the Marquez de los Olivos Family &
and the Aguirre and Cervantes Family.
Ana Sanchez de Mendoza (born 1570) married Juan Becerra.
They had two children and through their grandchildren formed the Lopes de
Elizalde, Ramas de Ags, San Juan de los Lagos and Ayo el Chico, and Aceves y
Gutierrez de Hermosillo de Tepatitlan in the Cerro Gordo with many
descendants.
Marta Sanchez de Mendoza married Juan Sanchez de Lara
on May 26, 1587 in San Juan de los Lago
resulting in the Sanchez, Orozco and Ramos family names.
Maria Hurtado de Mendoza married Rodrigo de Olivares, neighbor of
Jalostotilan at the end of the sixteenth century and early seventeenth
century.
They had five children and only four had descendents which resulted in the
Ramirez de Mendoza, Padilla Davila, Gutierrez de Laris, Lomelin, Gomez,
Hurtado de Mendoza, Jimenez de Mendoza all of which had many children in the
region.
One of which is Catalina Hurtado de Mendoza who married Manuel Gomez and the
other sister married Juan Jimenez who had a daughter who married Nicolas
Jimenez. They formed the Gomez y Jimenez families with many descendants in
Jalostotitlan and the surround region.
With much appreciation to all of you for all of your wisdom and continued
guidance.
BTW can someone provide me with the details about the Sacramento meeting
next Saturday?
Thanks in advance!
Rosa
San Francisco, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Susan and
Joe Cadena
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 3:54 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction - Gutierres in Jalisco
Hello,
I just joined the list last week. Gutierres is one of my two main lines of
research, in Jalisco:
Gutierres (also found as Gutierres Rubio) in Tepatitlan, at Hacienda El
Salto. Many of the following details are as yet unconfirmed, and I am hoping
other members may have suggestions for sources: I have gotten as far back as
Francisco Gutierres Rubio who was married to Juana Lomelin. Francisco died
about 1691/2. His children were born between 1652 and 1658: Francisca
(1652), Lazaro (1654), Leonor (1656) and Miguel (1658). They were espanoles.
Miguel Gutierres Rubio is the direct ancestor. He was possibly the owner
(dueno) of Hacienda El Salto. He married Ana Flores de Alba about 1686. He
died Oct 1727. His children were Luisa (Apr 1687), Ana and Cristobal (twins,
July 1689), Francisco Xavier (Aug 1681) and Miguel (1697/8).
Miguel Gutierres was again the direct ancestor. He married Gertrudis de
Rovalcaba y Agundiz, after which he lived at Hacienda La Calle. Gertrudis
was born Mar 1711 at Zapotlanejo; she was from Hacienda El Tempisque in
Tepatitlan at the time of her marriage (24 Jun 1728 at Tepatitlan). The
couple had at least 10 children, and I have found the birth entry in church
books for all but one - the direct ancestor, Jose Miguel Gutierres born
about 1738. At this point the family was at Santa Clara near Ocotlan. I
believe there was a Santa Clara de Zula northeast of Ocotlan, as well as a
rancho named Santa Clara in Ocotlan. I do not know which one the Gutierres
family lived at.
Jose Miguel Gutierres married Francisca Xaviera Flores at Ocotlan May 1772.
They had at least 9 children, all born at Rancho Santa Clara, Ocotlan, and
again the direct ancestor is the only one for whom I've been unable to find
a birth record: Jose Antonio Gutierres, born about 1785. He married Maria
Josefa Ybanez of Santa Anita, but I've been unable to find a marriage record
in Ocotlan or Santa Anita. First child was born 1811, so I suspect marriage
around 1809-10. The children were all born in Santa Anita or (nearby?)
Rancho de la Calera. Here too the direct ancestor is the only one for whom
I've been unable to find a birth record: Reymundo Gutierres born about 1815
in Santa Anita. He married Maria Francisca Romana Cadena in Guadalajara May
1840. (I'll continue with the Cadena line in a separate e-mail.)
The direct ancestors I'm really seeking above seem to be successfully
eluding me thus far. Are there any sources besides the Church that I can
turn to? Does anyone know of the ranchos I've mentioned and possibly have
information about them from this period? And finally, does anyone have
suggestions for how I can go further back in time in Jalisco - into the
1600's - and eventually make the leap from Jalisco to Spain? I would
appreciate any help - thank you in advance.
Susan Cadena
Hi Susan again...if you want access to permits of voage from Spain to Americas you can use PARES a website. -Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
Color coding for safety: Windows Live Hotmail alerts you to suspicious email.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_sa…
Susan,
I would love to see what you have about our familia. Thanks in advance!
Will you be joining the group next Saturday?
Rosa
Gonzalez.Rosa@comcast.net
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Susan and
Joe Cadena
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 12:41 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction - Gutierres in Jalisco
Hello Rosa,
Thank you for your post responding to my search for Gutierres with info on
the family in the Jalostotitlan area. I think your tia gave you some pretty
accurate info - I have a Xerox copy of a couple pages excerpted from the
book "Retonos de Espana en la Nueva Galicia" which gives the same info and a
bit more. I would be happy to scan what I have and e-mail to you privately.
(I assume that attachments are not accepted on the list.)
Susan
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Rosa
Gonzalez
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 10:41 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction - Gutierres in Jalisco
Hi Susan!
Welcome and good luck on your search for your family treasures.
Your introduction and David's response compelled me to share something I
recently received.
Can anyone verify the following information I received from my Tia in
Jalostotilan regarding the original families from Jalos:
Francisco Gutierrez Rubio (El Viejo) Florida & Ana Gonzalez Florida the
First (I*)
(*note there was a mother, daughter and a granddaughter with the same name
Ana Gonzalez Florida.) This marriage resulted in the following six families
& the following descendants:
Ana Gonzalez Florida II married Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo-Munoz, son of
Juan Gonzalez Hermosillo and Maria Munoz, resulting in the Gonzalez de
Hermosillo Family in the region.
Captain Miguel Gutierrez Rubio married Leonor de Hermosillo, daughter of
Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo and Maria Munoz, who is Juan Gonzalez de
Hermosillo's sister resulting in the Gutierrez de Hermosillo Family in the
region.
Catalina Gutierrez Rubion (also appeared like Gonzalez de la Reguera)
married Francisco Munoz del la Bara, resulting in the Munoz de la Barba
Family in the region.
Diego Gonzalez Rubio (I) married Polonia de Torres, daughter of Nicolas
Ramirez and Polonia de Torres, two of the first residents of Aguascalientes,
resulting in the Gonzalez Rubio Family in the region.
Maria Gonzalez Munoa de Aceves married Juan de Aceves which resulted in the
Aceves Family in the region.
Captain Francisco Gutierrez Rubio (II) El Mozo, married Francisca Hurtado de
Mendoza y Olivares, daughter of Rodrigo de Olivares and Maria Hurtado de
Mendoza, which formed the Gutierrez de Mendoza Family which later resulted
in the
Gutierrez de Laris Family.
Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo (I) married Maria Munoz in which 5 families
emerged:
Leonor de Hermosillo was born in 1588 married Captain Gutierrez Rubio, son
of Francisco Gutierrez Rubio (El Viejo) and Ana Gonzalez Florida (I), the
Gutierrez de Hermosillo family.
Teresa Gonzalez de Hermosillo (born 1589) married Silvestre Camacho Riguleme
forming the Camacho Riguelme Family.
Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo (II) (born 1591) married Ana Gonzalez Florida
(II) daughter of Francisco Gutierrez Rubio (El Viejo) and Ana Gonzalez
Florida (I) forming the
Gonzalez de Hermosillo family.
Beatriz de Hermosillo (born 1593) married Juan de Aceves, forming the Aceves
Family (
Diego Alonso del Pedroso y Hermosillo (born 1598) married Paula de Torres
daughter of Nicolas Ramirez & Polonia de Torres, of the original families
in Aguascalientes. This family had seven children. Only four had
descendents.
Garcia de Hermosillo (owners of Papalote in Jalos)
Gonzalez de Hermosillo (La familia Ramirez de Coca y el Saus de los Ramirez
who took the last name Ramirez (maternal grandfather Nicolas Ramirez) and
not Gonzaslez/Gonzalez
and the Aceves family through the grandson Juan Munoz de Aceves.
Toribio Hernandez de Arellano who married Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza,
neighbors of the Villa de Santa Maria de los Lagos, (born in 1540 or 1550)
had four daughters.
Isabel de Mendoza (born 1568) married Alvaro de Ornelas
resulting in the Ornelas y Mendoza Family.
They were married in Lagos on October 29, 1586.
Their children formed the Marquez de los Olivos Family &
and the Aguirre and Cervantes Family.
Ana Sanchez de Mendoza (born 1570) married Juan Becerra.
They had two children and through their grandchildren formed the Lopes de
Elizalde, Ramas de Ags, San Juan de los Lagos and Ayo el Chico, and Aceves y
Gutierrez de Hermosillo de Tepatitlan in the Cerro Gordo with many
descendants.
Marta Sanchez de Mendoza married Juan Sanchez de Lara
on May 26, 1587 in San Juan de los Lago
resulting in the Sanchez, Orozco and Ramos family names.
Maria Hurtado de Mendoza married Rodrigo de Olivares, neighbor of
Jalostotilan at the end of the sixteenth century and early seventeenth
century.
They had five children and only four had descendents which resulted in the
Ramirez de Mendoza, Padilla Davila, Gutierrez de Laris, Lomelin, Gomez,
Hurtado de Mendoza, Jimenez de Mendoza all of which had many children in the
region.
One of which is Catalina Hurtado de Mendoza who married Manuel Gomez and the
other sister married Juan Jimenez who had a daughter who married Nicolas
Jimenez. They formed the Gomez y Jimenez families with many descendants in
Jalostotitlan and the surround region.
With much appreciation to all of you for all of your wisdom and continued
guidance.
BTW can someone provide me with the details about the Sacramento meeting
next Saturday?
Thanks in advance!
Rosa
San Francisco, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Susan and
Joe Cadena
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 3:54 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction - Gutierres in Jalisco
Hello,
I just joined the list last week. Gutierres is one of my two main lines of
research, in Jalisco:
Gutierres (also found as Gutierres Rubio) in Tepatitlan, at Hacienda El
Salto. Many of the following details are as yet unconfirmed, and I am hoping
other members may have suggestions for sources: I have gotten as far back as
Francisco Gutierres Rubio who was married to Juana Lomelin. Francisco died
about 1691/2. His children were born between 1652 and 1658: Francisca
(1652), Lazaro (1654), Leonor (1656) and Miguel (1658). They were espanoles.
Miguel Gutierres Rubio is the direct ancestor. He was possibly the owner
(dueno) of Hacienda El Salto. He married Ana Flores de Alba about 1686. He
died Oct 1727. His children were Luisa (Apr 1687), Ana and Cristobal (twins,
July 1689), Francisco Xavier (Aug 1681) and Miguel (1697/8).
Miguel Gutierres was again the direct ancestor. He married Gertrudis de
Rovalcaba y Agundiz, after which he lived at Hacienda La Calle. Gertrudis
was born Mar 1711 at Zapotlanejo; she was from Hacienda El Tempisque in
Tepatitlan at the time of her marriage (24 Jun 1728 at Tepatitlan). The
couple had at least 10 children, and I have found the birth entry in church
books for all but one - the direct ancestor, Jose Miguel Gutierres born
about 1738. At this point the family was at Santa Clara near Ocotlan. I
believe there was a Santa Clara de Zula northeast of Ocotlan, as well as a
rancho named Santa Clara in Ocotlan. I do not know which one the Gutierres
family lived at.
Jose Miguel Gutierres married Francisca Xaviera Flores at Ocotlan May 1772.
They had at least 9 children, all born at Rancho Santa Clara, Ocotlan, and
again the direct ancestor is the only one for whom I've been unable to find
a birth record: Jose Antonio Gutierres, born about 1785. He married Maria
Josefa Ybanez of Santa Anita, but I've been unable to find a marriage record
in Ocotlan or Santa Anita. First child was born 1811, so I suspect marriage
around 1809-10. The children were all born in Santa Anita or (nearby?)
Rancho de la Calera. Here too the direct ancestor is the only one for whom
I've been unable to find a birth record: Reymundo Gutierres born about 1815
in Santa Anita. He married Maria Francisca Romana Cadena in Guadalajara May
1840. (I'll continue with the Cadena line in a separate e-mail.)
The direct ancestors I'm really seeking above seem to be successfully
eluding me thus far. Are there any sources besides the Church that I can
turn to? Does anyone know of the ranchos I've mentioned and possibly have
information about them from this period? And finally, does anyone have
suggestions for how I can go further back in time in Jalisco - into the
1600's - and eventually make the leap from Jalisco to Spain? I would
appreciate any help - thank you in advance.
Susan Cadena
Hi Susan! We are related, here is what I have on Francisco
Francisco Gutiérrez y Rubio (your line ends here) b. abt 1610 Jalos
Miguel Gutiérrez y Rubio b. abt 1585 Jalos
Francisco Gutiérrez de la Vega y Rubio b. abt 1551 Spain or Mexico City married the famous
Ana González y Florida (I) eventually there would be other 5 Ana González y Floridas (her daughter,
several grandchildren etc. Common practice to be given surname of a famous ancestor or to honor them
Diego González de la Vega abt 1515 Spain and María Rubio (Both parents created compound surname)
Lomelini
Juana di Lomelini b. abt 1615 Nochistlán died 20 oct 1692 Nochistlán
her first marriage was to don Rodrigo de Carvajal y Ulloa. Child
of the Italian Carlo di Lomelini born in Genoa, Italy ca. 1584 and
María Benavídez she died 9 dec 1669 Nochistlán.
Miguel actually wasn't Gutiérrez y Rubio eventhough his father was named for the paternal line
the other children combined surnames to form Gutiérrez de Hermosillo.
Miguel Gutiérrez de HErmosillo married Ana de Alba y Flores. Miguel died
29 oct 1727 in Tepa.
Some helpful hints! Most of the Spanish Alteño families already have been researched and their genealogy has been perserved! So all we need to do is to connect smaller branches to the big
"Spanish Trunk" (joke). You can easily trace back to Europe, don't worry you have two lines right in
this email! I Hope this helps alot! Welcome to the group! I hope you can get to know all of us and be part of a huge family. -daniel Camino
_________________________________________________________________
Get 5 GB of storage with Windows Live Hotmail.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_5g…
Hi Daniel,
I am such a novice at genealogy research how were you able to obtain the
lineage information from the 1600s and 1500s to link back to Spain? Thanks!
-Esperanza
On 1/17/09 9:46 PM, "Daniel M�ndez del Camino"
wrote:
>
> Hi Susan! We are related, here is what I have on Francisco
>
> Francisco Gutiérrez y Rubio (your line ends here) b. abt 1610 Jalos
>
> Miguel Gutiérrez y Rubio b. abt 1585 Jalos
>
> Francisco Gutiérrez de la Vega y Rubio b. abt 1551 Spain or Mexico City
> married the famous
> Ana González y Florida (I) eventually there would be other 5 Ana González y
> Floridas (her daughter,
> several grandchildren etc. Common practice to be given surname of a famous
> ancestor or to honor them
>
> Diego González de la Vega abt 1515 Spain and María Rubio (Both parents created
> compound surname)
>
>
> Lomelini
>
> Juana di Lomelini b. abt 1615 Nochistlán died 20 oct 1692 Nochistlán
> her first marriage was to don Rodrigo de Carvajal y Ulloa. Child
> of the Italian Carlo di Lomelini born in Genoa, Italy ca. 1584 and
> María Benavídez she died 9 dec 1669 Nochistlán.
>
> Miguel actually wasn't Gutiérrez y Rubio eventhough his father was named for
> the paternal line
> the other children combined surnames to form Gutiérrez de Hermosillo.
> Miguel Gutiérrez de HErmosillo married Ana de Alba y Flores. Miguel died
> 29 oct 1727 in Tepa.
> Some helpful hints! Most of the Spanish Alteño families already have been
> researched and their genealogy has been perserved! So all we need to do is to
> connect smaller branches to the big
> "Spanish Trunk" (joke). You can easily trace back to Europe, don't worry you
> have two lines right in
> this email! I Hope this helps alot! Welcome to the group! I hope you can get
> to know all of us and be part of a huge family. -daniel Camino
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get 5 GB of storage with Windows Live Hotmail.
>
http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_5g…;
8
Hi Esperanza, Ive only used some books, films and moslty family search, yourll be surprised what you find on familysearch. Several of us in the group descend from the Gutiérrez y Rubio family. -Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_fa…
Hello Daniel,
Thank you so much for the info! It appears you may have enabled me to make the giant leap across the ocean to Spain. Do you mind my asking what your sources are? I've been working almost exclusively with church records, at times with the help of a Spanish speaking (professional) researcher. But I know there are books dealing with Nueva Galicia as well. However, I don't know what sources such works are based on.
What line of Gutierres Rubio are you connected with?
I am curious if there are any records corresponding to passenger lists for the Spanish who came to Mexico - does anyone know?
Thank you again and I appreciate the warm welcome to the list.
Susan Cadena
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Daniel M?ndez del Camino
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 9:47 PM
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction - Gutierres in Jalisco
Hi Susan! We are related, here is what I have on Francisco
Francisco Gutirrez y Rubio (your line ends here) b. abt 1610 Jalos
Miguel Gutirrez y Rubio b. abt 1585 Jalos
Francisco Gutirrez de la Vega y Rubio b. abt 1551 Spain or Mexico City married the famous
Ana Gonzlez y Florida (I) eventually there would be other 5 Ana Gonzlez y Floridas (her daughter,
several grandchildren etc. Common practice to be given surname of a famous ancestor or to honor them
Hello Susan, when dealing with Los Altos, I use familysearch and several books, Sagrada Mitra .... (long name and Retoños de España. Ive used some films but films for me are in Aguas and Zacatecas.
Your family (mine too) have been researched extensively by Mariano González Leal. Ill say my lines of Gtz. Rubio in a later email, I need to leave! I have several. -Daniel Camino
_________________________________________________________________
Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119462413/direct/01/
Susan and Joe,
You will find many from this group who share your ancestors. I am one
of them. Your research will also take you to Jalostotitlan which is
where the majority of my ancestors are from. I am leaving to the
inauguration but will share my information when I return.
Bienvenidos!
Eloise Gomez Reyes
-----Original Message-----
From: Susan and Joe Cadena
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 3:53 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction - Gutierres in Jalisco
Hello,
I just joined the list last week. Gutierres is one of my two main lines
of
research, in Jalisco:
Gutierres (also found as Gutierres Rubio) in Tepatitlan, at Hacienda El
Salto. Many of the following details are as yet unconfirmed, and I am
hoping
other members may have suggestions for sources: I have gotten as far
back as
Francisco Gutierres Rubio who was married to Juana Lomelin. Francisco
died
about 1691/2. His children were born between 1652 and 1658: Francisca
(1652), Lazaro (1654), Leonor (1656) and Miguel (1658). They were
espanoles.
Miguel Gutierres Rubio is the direct ancestor. He was possibly the owner
(dueno) of Hacienda El Salto. He married Ana Flores de Alba about 1686.
He
died Oct 1727. His children were Luisa (Apr 1687), Ana and Cristobal
(twins,
July 1689), Francisco Xavier (Aug 1681) and Miguel (1697/8).
Miguel Gutierres was again the direct ancestor. He married Gertrudis de
Rovalcaba y Agundiz, after which he lived at Hacienda La Calle.
Gertrudis
was born Mar 1711 at Zapotlanejo; she was from Hacienda El Tempisque in
Tepatitlan at the time of her marriage (24 Jun 1728 at Tepatitlan). The
couple had at least 10 children, and I have found the birth entry in
church
books for all but one - the direct ancestor, Jose Miguel Gutierres born
about 1738. At this point the family was at Santa Clara near Ocotlan. I
believe there was a Santa Clara de Zula northeast of Ocotlan, as well
as a
rancho named Santa Clara in Ocotlan. I do not know which one the
Gutierres
family lived at.
Jose Miguel Gutierres married Francisca Xaviera Flores at Ocotlan May
1772.
They had at least 9 children, all born at Rancho Santa Clara, Ocotlan,
and
again the direct ancestor is the only one for whom I've been unable to
find
a birth record: Jose Antonio Gutierres, born about 1785. He married
Maria
Josefa Ybanez of Santa Anita, but I've been unable to find a marriage
record
in Ocotlan or Santa Anita. First child was born 1811, so I suspect
marriage
around 1809-10. The children were all born in Santa Anita or (nearby?)
Rancho de la Calera. Here too the direct ancestor is the only one for
whom
I've been unable to find a birth record: Reymundo Gutierres born about
1815
in Santa Anita. He married Maria Francisca Romana Cadena in Guadalajara
May
1840. (I'll continue with the Cadena line in a separate e-mail.)
The direct ancestors I'm really seeking above seem to be successfully
eluding me thus far. Are there any sources besides the Church that I can
turn to? Does anyone know of the ranchos I've mentioned and possibly
have
information about them from this period? And finally, does anyone have
suggestions for how I can go further back in time in Jalisco - into the
1600's - and eventually make the leap from Jalisco to Spain? I would
appreciate any help - thank you in advance.
Susan Cadena
I have a book titled: Los señores de Zacatecas - Una aristocracia minera
del siglo XVIII novohispano. The author is Frédérique Langue. The book is
479 pages long, written in Spanish, and deals with the mining industry of
Maria my name is also Maria Cortez. Where are you from and what is your other last name?
Maria Cortez (HRIS Administrator)
Trinity Industries
Maria.Cortes@trin.net
Phone 214-589-8036
Fax 214-589-8739
-----Original Message-----
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of mcortez
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 5:32 PM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Book for sale
I have a book titled: Los señores de Zacatecas - Una aristocracia minera
del siglo XVIII novohispano. The author is Frédérique Langue. The book is
479 pages long, written in Spanish, and deals with the mining industry of
Zacatecas and the social evolution of the principal mining families who
settled there. It has an onomastic index at the end of the book and it is
soft bound. I am asking $40 for the book including shipping within the US
and prefer Paypal as a payment method. If interested please e-mail me
directly.
Maria Cortez
Since there were "Libro Reservado" and "hijo natural" entries contained within the same book (some on the same page), I would be enclined to believe that the lLibro Reservado obviously refers to the "secret rape and incest" entries. However, there were SO MANY. Honestly, I'd run across one every couple of pages. Could it also be that the children born out of wedlock to lower socio-econmic "commonlaw" couples and single women were simply referred to as hijos naturales, as we see the names of the mother/parents and the abuelos listed and therefore made public. While a child born out of wedlock to upper society, whether as a result of an extra marital affair or both unmarried persons, but of different socio-economic society or races, whose family would want to keep the resulting child a secret. I guess I'd hate to think there was that much incest or rape within one city every year.
Does anyone know if and where the Libro Reservados are available for viewing. I would think there's a good chance that many group members could have family members listed. Thanks so much, Alice BB
--- alicebb@netscape.com wrote:
From: AliceBB
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Libro Reservado
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:15:53 -0800
Since there were "Libro Reservado" and "hijo natural" entries contained within the same book (some on the same page), I would be enclined to believe that the lLibro Reservado obviously refers to the "secret rape and incest" entries. However, there were SO MANY. Honestly, I'd run across one every couple of pages. Could it also be that the children born out of wedlock to lower socio-econmic "commonlaw" couples and single women were simply referred to as hijos naturales, as we see the names of the mother/parents and the abuelos listed and therefore made public. While a child born out of wedlock to upper society, whether as a result of an extra marital affair or both unmarried persons, but of different socio-economic society or races, whose family would want to keep the resulting child a secret. I guess I'd hate to think there was that much incest or rape within one city every year.
Where would one find the Libros Reservados, as anyone could find relatives there. I'm sure it would make interesting reading, indeed. Alice BB
--- arturo.ramos2@gmail.com wrote:
From: arturoramos
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Libro Reservado
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:15:57 -0800 (PST)
There were some priests or parishes that kept separate books for "espanoles" and castas (negros, mulatos, indios). In others, they kept the baptisms separate by whether the children were legitimate or "natural" (out of wedlock).
However, a libro reservado would not refer to either of these. I believe that a libro reservado was the "secret" book where testimony about incest, rape, etc. was kept, which was necessary to make determinations of consanguinity and such, but was not proper to have in the "public" baptism and marriage registers.
I have seen many such "secret dispensations" in the Sagrada Mitra. Had it not been for the Mexican government seizing those documents and allowing LDS to film them, I doubt the Catholic Church would have ever allowed them to be seen by laypeople. Some are quite shocking and/or entertaining. Proof that the old refrain about "back in our time..." is a stretch.
Rosa and anyone else interested in attending the Northern California meeting of the Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society.
Below is the meeting information, where and when.
The Raleys supermarket has a meeting room that can be used for non-profit meetings. You can't bring any food from the outside. Anything to be consumed can be purchased at the Raleys Supermarket
Alicia,
Thanks for the information. I'm so excited about meeting you and all the
others. The energy I feel through Nuestros Ranchos is so incredible!
Rosa
-----Original Message-----
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Alicia
Carrillo
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 2:52 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Fw: January 2009 meeting
Rosa and anyone else interested in attending the Northern California meeting
of the Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society.
Below is the meeting information, where and when.
The Raleys supermarket has a meeting room that can be used for non-profit
meetings. You can't bring any food from the outside. Anything to be consumed
can be purchased at the Raleys Supermarket
Rosa, I hope you can make it to the meeting next week. If there's anything I
can answer before the meeting, just send me an email to alliecar@pacbell.net
Alicia,
San Jose, Calif
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: mcortez
Subject: January 2009 meeting
I have reserved the Raley's event center in Elk Grove for our next
meeting. I hope you all can attend.
Date of Event
Saturday, January 24, 2009
Event time
11:00 am - 2:00 pm
Location (store)
Raley's
4900 Elk Grove Blvd.
Elk Grove, CA
If you have any topics of interest you would like discussed, please
reply to me and I will include them in the agenda. Thanks.
Maria
Thank-you for sharing that story with us in Nuestros Ranchos. I think part
of our "quest" is making necessary connections in what sometimes feels like
a disconnected world. I think it is a gift to everyone involved that we
Hello All! I came to a shocking find, I though all dispensas in Luz Montejano's book were supposed to get married after but not one for one of my ancestral tíos.
Felipe Alonso de los Hinojos (great grandson of the famous Lope Ruiz de Esparza) and Agueda de Estrada (great great grandaughter of the famous Lope Ruiz de Esparza). They presented their info (case or dispensa and was reviewed in 19 Aug 1700 in Villanueva.They weren't that bad third cousins sounds way farther than cousins, but the dispensa was nulled because some one leaked out info that Felipe had sexual relations with his soon-tobe wife Agued's maternal side tías (his second cousin, not sure which tía there's only Leonor, María or Nicolasa de Villagrán y Ulloa, great grandchildren of Lope. Just thought to share this info. Dispensas can get very scary but very curious and leaves you wondering in surprise or SHOCK!
Origins of New Mexico Families by Fray Angelico Chavez
"Diego Perez Granillo, who had married his cousin Juana Romero, and had gone to Sonora before 1663, was Alonso's son if not a younger brother".
GREGORIO CASILLAS Pedigree
Male Family
________________________________
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:
________________________________
Parents:
Hello John Inclan - I don't know if you remember me but I use to be with the SHHAR organization and went to the Pentagon and National Archives with you around 4 years ago or so....anyway, hoping you might have some insight into the Perez-Granillo lines of Sonora Mexico.
Cap. Don Simon Perez Granillo married to Dona Maria Avila y Bernal had a son also named Simon Perez Granillo. This Simon married Catharina Enriques Dominguez de Mendoza on A[pril 25, 1694 in Valle de Allende , Chihuahua Mexico. Catharina was born in New Mexico according to the parish record and Simon was from Sonora, Mexico.
Any chance that this might be a son of Simon Perez-Granillo whose father was Alonso Perz Granillo, --whose father was Francisco Perez Granillo??
Any information that you might know regarding this line would be greatly appreciated.
Luz Montejano Hilton was trying to find my Simon and Catharina Enriquez several years ago. I have tried to contact her but I hear she has been ill. I was the connection she was trying to find.
Thanks if you can help or have any ideas and I hope you are doing well, I'm pretty sure form all the information that I have collected including books, that this Simon is related to the Francisco/Alonso Perez-Granillo line.
Yolanda Ochoa-Hussey
motherredcaps@yahoo.com
________________________________
From: John Inclan
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 8:41:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Research Digest, Vol 35, Issue 2
GREGORIO CASILLAS Pedigree
Male Family
________________________________
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:
________________________________
Parents:
Father: SEBERO CASILLAS Family
Mother: FELIPA ROJAS
________________________________
Marriages:
Spouse: ELIGIA RIVERA Family
Marriage: 26 FEB 1848 Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa Del Refugio, Zacatecas, Mexico
Husband Age at Marriage: 20
Wife Age at Marriage: 17
________________________________
From: "research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 4:08:06 PM
Subject: Research Digest, Vol 35, Issue 2
Send Research mailing list submissions to
research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.nuestrosranchos.org/listinfo.cgi/research-nuestrosranchos…
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
research-owner@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Research digest..."
Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
DAILY DIGEST
****************************************
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa de Refugio, Zacatecas
(Sandra Gomez Mendoza)
2. Re: Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa de Refugio, Zacatecas
(Sandra Gomez Mendoza)
3. Re: Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa de Refugio, Zacatecas
(Sandra Gomez Mendoza)
4. Re: Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa de Refugio, Zacatecas
(Sandra Gomez Mendoza)
5. Onate/Zaldivar/Mendoza (John Inclan)
6. Re: Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa de Refugio, Zacatecas
(Daniel M?ndez del Camino)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 15:08:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Sandra Gomez Mendoza
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa de
Refugio, Zacatecas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org, research@nuestrosranchos.org
Message-ID: <238974.17099.qm@web56307.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hola Daniel! Como siempre, que gusto.
My family includes the following:
Grandfather: Jose Pedro Gomez Casillas (born in Juchipila, 1891)
Greatgrandmother: Marciala Casillas (born in Tabasco)
Parents: (married in Tabasco)
Father: Gregorio CASILLAS
Mother: Eligia RIVERA
Grandparents: (unknown where they are from)
Father's Father: Sebero CASILLAS
Father's Mother: Felipa DE ROJAS
Mother's Father: Sinforiano RIVERA
Mother's Mother: Ramona LOPES
--- On Mon, 12/1/08, Daniel M?ndez del Camino wrote:
> From: Daniel M?ndez del Camino
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa de Refugio, Zacatecas
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 1:39 PM
> Hola Sandra,
> I have research in Villa de Refugio, Zac as well from
> 1776-1930. I have notice that almost everyone came from
> somewhere else. Mecatabasco was a large parish going down to
> Huansco, Zac to Calvillo, Ags
> and west Plateado, Zac your Casillas prob came from one of
> these places. I do have some Casillas but not related from
> Huanusco some miles from Tabasco, Maybe you could give me
> some dates and names, do you know what Ranchos or Haciendas
> they came from? Most of the names are not from Tabasco.
> They're are places, like Huiscolco, Plateado, La Luz,
> Refugio Sauz, Labor are some I can remember off the top of
> my head, we came from LA LUZ. Almost most families went to
> Tabasco to baptize their kids and also get married. -Daniel
> Mdc
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster.
> http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_fa…
How to view the images online