i question the accuracy of page 153 since miguel's will said that he only had one daughter named isabel. so it's unlikely the jose cid is miguel's son. also how did holcombe verify that the pedro cid who married maria carrillo is a son of hernan gonzales and maria cid
I have studied much of Jaime Holcombes work. In much of his documentation he would write little notes identifying sources. When you take into account the tremendous volume of his work, it is extremely reliable. However he was not perfect. I found five mistakes in his work. Others have also found mistakes. Since most of the time he provides sources, it is easy to check his work. I repeat, for the sheer volume of his work that he accomplished before the internet, it is considered reliable
One mistake that Holcombe made was stating that Joachin Leonardo Alvarez Tostado and Maria Antonia de Los Dolores Gonzalez had only two children. Others have copied this information. Through baptisms, marriage records and dispensations there are at least five children born to this couple. One of their progeny died young. This child was named Jose Domingo Alvarez-Tostado y Gonzalez. Since he died young, the family named another son by the same name. Jaime Holcombe does not list the second child by the same name. This child is important in my ancestral line as he is my grandfathers' great grandfather. Sometimes people aren't listed in wills for various reasons. The will may have been written before the child was born. Or the child was born after the will was written but before changes to the will could be made. Sometimes children died before their parents so they aren't named in the wills.
Another example is Christoforo Colon not being named as the main inheritor in his fathers will because his father never forgave for some of the things that he did that the family was not proud of. He was the black sheep of his family for what he did from 14 years of age to about 20. He also messed up again with his first wife which really bothered his father. The King of Portugal forgave what he did to his Cristoforo's wife even though she was under his protection but Colons father never forgave him.
Black sheep family members are sometimes completely ignored.
Sometimes they didn't have to be black sheep. Centuries ago it wasn't that important to record the information of the younger brothers as the eldest was the one that usually inherited titles. The great knight William Marshall was only a younger son, of many sons, of minor nobility so they did not record his birthdate. It is only through his amazing life that we know about him. Actually many of us from Los altos de Jalisco may descend from William Marshall but most people don't know it. His great grandaughter is possibly our ancestor but because so many people misread a document, they believe that we don't descend from her and name her husbands daughters as illegitimate. They say that she never had any children which may not be true. She possibly had one daughter. But the record that is given as evidence states only that another of his daughters is illegitimate and that these two daughters are half sisters. I believe that this document actually reinforces that our ancestor was their legitimate daughter. This letter infers that our ancestor is legitimate. His other kids are identified in other places as being illegitimate. Our ancestor is never identified as being illegitimate in any of the records that I have seen. There is another prominent genealogist that has supported this claim of legitimacy. This case begs for more research.
Toribio Hernandez Arellano is another example of a much younger brother where there aren't many records with him being mentioned. His older brother inherited his fathers position and businesses so Toribio was a prime candidate to go to the new world to seek his fortune. Also Toribios father died when he was only about seven or eight years old and he was raised by his mothers family. He was in no position to inherit anything from his family. Toribios brother avoided the stink of the family scandal by inheriting and keeping his fathers position but all other family members were under suspicion so Toribio going to Nueva Galicia to start a new life was a no-brainier.
I know someone who died that didn't name any children from his first wife in his will, listing only the kids from his second marriage. It was as if he had never had a first marriage. His own brothers were very upset about this and contested the will for the children of the first marriage.
Just because someone is not named in a record does not mean he doesn't exist.
I wonder if there are two Thomas Villegas and that is what is calling the confusion. I have the same issue with Diego alcocer. Two different sources claim something different and have him as a son of two brothers at the same time. A third source claims that the son of one brother died young which would support the other claim but most people follow the first source.
i don't know if there is two tomas villegas or not, but i think miguel's paternal grandfather was also named miguel. other sources such as his will state that maria cid is his sister(didn't specify if full or half) and refers to her son as sobrino and her daughter maria as a sobrina. but this ordenes calls miguel caldera maria cid's tio hermano.
Jaime Holcombes reliability
Hi Katy,
I have studied much of Jaime Holcombes work. In much of his documentation he would write little notes identifying sources. When you take into account the tremendous volume of his work, it is extremely reliable. However he was not perfect. I found five mistakes in his work. Others have also found mistakes. Since most of the time he provides sources, it is easy to check his work. I repeat, for the sheer volume of his work that he accomplished before the internet, it is considered reliable
Jaime Holcombes reliability
ok then, maybee i'll take his word about pedro, but not on miguel having a son.
edit; i found the tomas villegas ordination mentioned in the notes and it comfirms that the pedro who married maria carrillo is a son of hernan and maria.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18379-40348-5?cc=1874591&wc=…
Holcombe may be right
Hi Katy,
One mistake that Holcombe made was stating that Joachin Leonardo Alvarez Tostado and Maria Antonia de Los Dolores Gonzalez had only two children. Others have copied this information. Through baptisms, marriage records and dispensations there are at least five children born to this couple. One of their progeny died young. This child was named Jose Domingo Alvarez-Tostado y Gonzalez. Since he died young, the family named another son by the same name. Jaime Holcombe does not list the second child by the same name. This child is important in my ancestral line as he is my grandfathers' great grandfather. Sometimes people aren't listed in wills for various reasons. The will may have been written before the child was born. Or the child was born after the will was written but before changes to the will could be made. Sometimes children died before their parents so they aren't named in the wills.
Another example is Christoforo Colon not being named as the main inheritor in his fathers will because his father never forgave for some of the things that he did that the family was not proud of. He was the black sheep of his family for what he did from 14 years of age to about 20. He also messed up again with his first wife which really bothered his father. The King of Portugal forgave what he did to his Cristoforo's wife even though she was under his protection but Colons father never forgave him.
Black sheep family members are sometimes completely ignored.
Sometimes they didn't have to be black sheep. Centuries ago it wasn't that important to record the information of the younger brothers as the eldest was the one that usually inherited titles. The great knight William Marshall was only a younger son, of many sons, of minor nobility so they did not record his birthdate. It is only through his amazing life that we know about him. Actually many of us from Los altos de Jalisco may descend from William Marshall but most people don't know it. His great grandaughter is possibly our ancestor but because so many people misread a document, they believe that we don't descend from her and name her husbands daughters as illegitimate. They say that she never had any children which may not be true. She possibly had one daughter. But the record that is given as evidence states only that another of his daughters is illegitimate and that these two daughters are half sisters. I believe that this document actually reinforces that our ancestor was their legitimate daughter. This letter infers that our ancestor is legitimate. His other kids are identified in other places as being illegitimate. Our ancestor is never identified as being illegitimate in any of the records that I have seen. There is another prominent genealogist that has supported this claim of legitimacy. This case begs for more research.
Toribio Hernandez Arellano is another example of a much younger brother where there aren't many records with him being mentioned. His older brother inherited his fathers position and businesses so Toribio was a prime candidate to go to the new world to seek his fortune. Also Toribios father died when he was only about seven or eight years old and he was raised by his mothers family. He was in no position to inherit anything from his family. Toribios brother avoided the stink of the family scandal by inheriting and keeping his fathers position but all other family members were under suspicion so Toribio going to Nueva Galicia to start a new life was a no-brainier.
I know someone who died that didn't name any children from his first wife in his will, listing only the kids from his second marriage. It was as if he had never had a first marriage. His own brothers were very upset about this and contested the will for the children of the first marriage.
Just because someone is not named in a record does not mean he doesn't exist.
R A. Ricci
Holcombe may be right
ok, but if miguel caldera did have a son, why would he only mention his daughter instead of a son.
on another note: the tomas villegas ordenes lists miguel as maria cid's tio hermano, which seems to contradict other sources.
Two Thomas Villegas
Hi Katy,
I wonder if there are two Thomas Villegas and that is what is calling the confusion. I have the same issue with Diego alcocer. Two different sources claim something different and have him as a son of two brothers at the same time. A third source claims that the son of one brother died young which would support the other claim but most people follow the first source.
Good luck,
Rick A Ricci,
PS. Are you in the Los Angeles area?
Two Thomas Villegas
i don't know if there is two tomas villegas or not, but i think miguel's paternal grandfather was also named miguel. other sources such as his will state that maria cid is his sister(didn't specify if full or half) and refers to her son as sobrino and her daughter maria as a sobrina. but this ordenes calls miguel caldera maria cid's tio hermano.
also i live in the inland empire area.