Online Status
Hola Forum,
About 2 years ago, I was helping my cousins the Pedrozas with their family tree. I stopped at Joseph Miguel de Pedroza because in his marriage record it states he was from Padres no conocidos. I looked over the record yesterday and noticed someone had added that he was born in Sauces, Lagos de Moreno but there was no source for it. I found their IM and in the image it stated he was natural de Dionicia (so he did have a mother listed) and from the Sauces in Lagos. I then read the testigos and a Francisco Xavier de Pedroza stated he knew Joseph since he was just born. I looked up Francisco Xavier and right under him born in 1706 was Maria Dionicia Pedroza.
Joseph Miguel de Pedroza LKRL-BZ4 cc 19 May 1748 Magdalena Munoz De Alba
Marriage Image: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DTDQ-JS5
IM Image: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6919-Y3W
Maria Dionicia Pedroza Macias (25 yo) was married to Nicolas Dias Tiscareno (44yo) vdo. de Juana Maria del Campo Yssasi Pedroza… They had a dispensa because his wife and wife to be were 3rd blood relation, but I had not read it 2 years ago. He states he has had a long standing illicit relationship with her and being that she is a Huerfana (mother was still alive) and very poor and their relationship was well known publicly that she would not be able to find someone to marry her.
Dispensa: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-629D-TF
(Rollo 167991 OAH 2353 (Luz Monejano 197/1060 per Retornos de Espana de la Nueva Galacia por Mariano Gonzalez Leal)
From all this information it seems Nicolas Dias is the father of Joseph Miguel Pedroza. Here is the problem, Joseph Miguel would have been born around 1725, and they did not get married until 1731 6 years later but Nicolas Dias would have still been married as he was a vdo. for only 7 months in April 1731.
I have not searched to see if any of Joseph Miguel Pedroza used Dias or Tiscareno though that might have started a quarrel with his other children maybe.
Would love some other insight. Thanks
José Miguel de Pedroza
It does appear that María Dionisia de Pedroza listed as the mother of José Miguel de Pedroza is the same María Dionisia de Pedroza that married Nicolás Díaz Tiscareño; although it's unusual that the IM for José Miguel and María Magdalena Muñoz de Nava does not state the relationship between "testigo" Francisco Javier de Pedroza and the groom to-be, his supposed nephew. Typically the relationship between a witness and the couple is disclosed and a statement is made by the witness that the relationship did not influence the witness' testimony.
I don't believe that Nicolás Díaz Tiscareño is the father of José Miguel. I'm thinking that the illicit relationship between Nicolás and María Dionisia de Pedroza probably only occurred just prior to their marriage; since, the second witness in their 'dispensa', don Pedro Montero y Aragón had no knowledge of the affair. A long standing relationship would have been scandalous and a hot topic of small town gossip. Also, if Nicolás was the father than a marriage dispensation in 'cuarto grado de consanguinidad' would have been required for the marriage between José Miguel de Pedroza and María Magdalena Muñoz de Nava; since Nicolás Díaz Tiscareño and Andrés Muñoz de Nava (María Magdalena's father) were second cousins:
1. Luis Tiscareño de Molina cc Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza
2. Beatriz de Tiscareño - hermanas - Luisa de Tiscareño
3. José Díaz de Anda - primos hermanos - Diego López Muñoz de Nava
4. Nicolás Díaz Tiscareño - primos segundos - Andrés Muñoz de Nava
Saludos
Austin Pérez
IM
Hi Austin,
I hadn't noticed that Jose Miguel de Pedroza and Magdalena Munoz would've needed a dispensa. This does appear to eliminate Nicolas Diaz Tiscareno as the potential father. Excellent point.
Chris
Pedroza
Simona,
this was really good information. maybe you could look at one of my Pedroza dead ends to see if you see something i'm not seeing. i have been trying to find the parents for doña Micaela de Pedroza for the last few years. She's here: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/De_Pedroza-95
She has parents identified on her defuncion named doña Theresa de Pedroza and don Antonio de Acosta. But, I'm not sure that's accurate, since her marriage and IM and dowry just list her as the hija natural of doña Theresa de Pedroza. Although, on her dowry, doña Micaela de Pedroza is listed as doña Micaela de Acosta y Pedroza, so the parents may be correct, although, I cant find where they fit into the rest of the Pedroza's and Acosta's. Nor can i find any information on them. plus, she's listed as an hija de padres no conocido or hija natural, except on the defuncion where she's listed as hija legitima, which doesnt seem right.
And, going all the way back to her baptism, she's listed just as an hija de padres no conocido. and she's expuesta in the house of Maria de San Juan de Pedroza, daughter of Santiago de Pedroza and Juana de Acosta, which are most likely the ancestors of doña Micaela de Pedroza, but I just can't figure out how.
Pedroza review
I'll review just as soon as I finish merging whatever records are available on Familysearch to get a better pic on them. I want to be able to arrive with the same information you have. I'll let you know if there is any new stuff.
Here is the info on Francisca Xaviera Masias Valades (1st wife)
Joseph Thomas Munos Gonzales De Hermosillo
about 1732 M3NG-R5R
Francisca Xaviera Masias Balades
MQM2-1L6
Marriage: 13 JAN 1756
El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico
Pedroza review
Simona,
Thank you so much. I really appreciate you taking a look. I've been stuck on them for some time now. And because the baptism, marriage and death records say something different I'm not sure which to believe although Micaela de Pedroza y Acosta's death record is the most recent, so may be that's the most accurate but still not sure. It's possible none of the records are right. Plus, she's definitely a descendant of Santiago de Pedroza and Juana de Acosta so it's possible she just uses the name Pedroza y Acosta for them and not for her parents.
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/De Pedroza-14
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/De Acosta-1
On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 1:36 PM wrote:
> I'll review just as soon as I finish merging whatever records are available
> on Familysearch to get a better pic on them. I want to be able to arrive
> with
> the same information you have. I'll let you know if there is any new stuff.
> Here is the info on Francisca Xaviera Masias Valades (1st wife) Joseph
> Thomas
> Munos Gonzales De Hermosillo about 1732 M3NG-R5R Francisca Xaviera Masias
> Balades MQM2-1L6 Marriage: 13 JAN 1756 El
> Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico
>
Pedroza review
Hi Simona,
I’ve looked at this family before and if the defunción is correct and the parents are don Francisco de Acosta and doña Teresa de Pedroza then the only parents that make sense to me are don Francisco de Acosta that was married to Nicolasa Fernández de Palos and doña Teresa de Pedroza that was married Isidro Fernández de Palos, both would’ve been available at the time. don Francisco de Acosta would’ve been widowed at the time and doña Teresa de Pedroza wouldn’t have been married yet, but it seems odd that someone who just had an illegitimate child would marry so soon after without it causing a scandal.
Chris
Pedroza review
Thanks for the heads up christopher.
Yes, some of the information does not make sense. Sorry I did not respond earlier, I had internet conx issues hopefully it has been fixed and I can continue with adding more to the picture of events and see if we can make sense of it. Today in looking at the pedrozas and macias I found a Macias tree so that kept me pretty busy deciphering.
illicit amisted in IM
Hi All
I spent the weekend reading through a lot of IM's and it has struck me how often someones admits to illicit amistad, sometimes for several months but at least once for a number of years. The first time i saw the phrase I thought how bad it must have been for them, especially the girl/woman, her reputation ruined, but after the 10th time I am no longer surprised.
Regards
Denise
Joseph Miguel Pedroza de
Excellent work Simona,
I have the Pedrosas in my family tree. The information that Nicolas had a long standing relationship also leads me to believe that he is a possible father to Jose Miguel Pedrosa. Even better was finding the indisputable evidence showing his mother and her story.
I agree that there may have been friction from family members if Jose Miguel used the Diaz Tiscareño surname since the mom and Dionicia were closely related. But it would be great to learn more about how the family handled the situation and to find out if Miguel or any of his descendants ever used Diaz Tiscareño as a surname. Did Nicolas Diaz Tiscareño and Maria Dionicia Pedroza have children once they were married? She would have still been of child bearing age.
It would be great to find a will of Nicolas Diaz Tiscareño and see if what additional information it could provide.
Keep up the good work!
Rick A. Ricci
Children of Dionicia and Nicolas
Danny, Christopher, and Rick, Thanks for kind words. I am only to happy to post information that would help many as the Pedrozas/Anda, Alba, etc had many children.
You're right Christopher it is only a possiblity that Nicolas is the father. Because these families married extensively among themselves there must be many dispensas (lots of researching to do). The information does narrow the field to these families to see if there is any mention of the father of Joseph Miguel Pedroza. I will start to look at my cousins great Grandfather.
Juan Jose De Pedroza cc Marriage: 09 FEB 1778 Maria Manuela Xaime Trillo
1754 M3C7-3YS
Rick they did have children, listed are 10 some added by me and some added by others. I have not gone through them to be sure they are the couples yet.
Manuel Pheliciano Dias Pedrosa
1732–Deceased • M24S-13Y
Manuel Dias Tiscareno
1733–Deceased • LBVZ-BX8
Nicolas Miguel Dias Pedrosa
1734–Deceased • M2W9-S4R
Phelipe Dias Pedrosa
1735–Deceased • MT5P-B9K
Phelipe Xil Dias Pedrosa
1736–Deceased • M27Z-DWP
Maria Dionicia Dias De Tiscarero
1738–Deceased • 9S74-NZQ
Quiteria Seledonia Dias Pedroza
1740–Deceased • KDMZ-TWR
Gertrudis Vinsencia Ferrer Dias Pedrosa
1742–Deceased • M27P-YWV
Joseph Maria De La Ascencion Dias Pedroza
1744–Deceased • M24N-SHS
Francisco Xavier Dias Pedroza
1747–Deceased • KH4B-N33
Credits for the information on Joseph Miguel Pedroza
This information is located on www.familysearch.org
Pedroza
wow, this is very interesting. I descend from Joseph Miguel de Pedroza and I really appreciate you posting this information.
Joseph Miguel Pedroza de padres no conocidos
Hi Simona,
This is excellent research. I'm not sure if we can say for sure who the father is but from the informacion matrimonial it definitely appears that the mother is Maria Dionicia de Pedroza, daughter of Antonio de Pedroza and Rosa María Macías Valadez. Great work.
Chris