A little help verifying a record.

Juanita,
I hope the following is helpful to you.

En el año del Señor de mil ochocientos ochenta y nueve a veintie de Octubre en la iglesia parroquial de Mesquitic yo el Presbitero Dn. Jesús Ma. Colunga Cura parroco de esta jurisdiccion
bauticé solemnemente, puse Oleo y Crisma a un infante de nueve dias de nacido a quien puse por nombre Pilar h. l. [hija legítima] de Pedro Baldes y de Maliana [Matiana] Sandate vecinos de San
Pedro fue su madrina Florenlina [Florentina] Valdes a quienes advertí su obligación y parentesco espiritual. Y para que conste, lo firmé con el señor Cura.

In the year of the Lord one thousand eight hundred eighty and nine on 20 October in the parish church of Mesquitic I the Priest Don Jesus Maria Colunga pastor of this district solemnly baptized
and administered Oil and Chrism to an infant born nine days ago whom I named Pilar legitimate daughter of Pedro Baldes and of Matiana Sandate residents of San Pedro her godmother was
Florentina Valdes whom I advised of her spiritual obligation and relationship. In order to be registered, I signed it with the Pastor.
[note: Even though the names of the women are written with an "l", I used the standard spelling with a "t". There are also many other writing errors.]

David in Albany CA

On Wed 26/09/12 6:31 PM , juanitahenniger@msn.com sent:
> I need a little reading a baptismal record that I found. 'm looking for
> information on my great grandfather (Pilar Valdez) and my great grandmother
> (Romana Tovar) who moved from Mexico to Texas in 1912 with their two
> daughters (Elisa and Herlinda. Any ways I found the following record and
> I'm having a little trouble reading the names. I would appreciate any help
> confirming what I believe is my great grandfather's baptismal record.
> I think the name of the child is Pilar Baldes (I'm making the assumption
> that the name is mispelled or at least I'm hoping. My great great
> grandparents were Pedro Valdez and Matina Sandate. Would someone be kind
> enough to help me translate the record. Thank you.
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-20420-25423-54?cc
> =1860864&wc=11680485

MARIA JOSEFA BRICKDALE

Hello

I found an unusual name in the marriage records for Aguascalientes - Dona Maria Josefa Brickdale, padrina for Don Jose Luis Ruiz de Esparza(from Valladolid) and Dona Anna Maria Peredo (from Leon).The padrino is Don Pedro de Herrera Leyva. Not someone I am looking for, but since there can't be many Brickdales in Mexico in the late 1700's (1792), thought I would pass it along. The man who wrote the entry was very careful to write the name with "ck" and all the letters in the name are easy to make out.

here is the link

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11759-70592-55?cc=1410092&…

I checked familysearch and found this woman, together with a Simon Herrera Leyba, as parents of a girl: Maria Dolores Loreto Herrera Brickdale:

https://familysearch.org/search/records/index#count=20&query=%2Bgivenna…

The christening was 16 dec 1791 in Aguascalientes (Sagrario)
But the marriage record for Maria Josefa was not indexed.

No Brickdale showed up on a search within NR, but maybe someone out there can use this anyway - someday!

Regards
Denise

General Digest, Vol 80, Issue 7 -- Maria Cortez

Maria.....thank you so much for checking......those Liendos of mine are VERY elusive and enjoy hiding from me. I am determined to find them.....someday! :-) Josie

On Sep 26, 2012, at 5:04 PM, general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:

> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. To Josie: Catalago del Archivo del Registro Publico (mcortez)
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 16:56:03 -0700
> From: mcortez
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] To Josie: Catalago del Archivo del
> Registro Publico
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>>
>> Hi Josie,
>>
> Absolutely, I have time to check. Unfortunately, there are no LIENDO or
> LIENDRO surnames in the book. It goes from LEQUERICA to LIZAOLA Y CUETO.
> Keep looking...something will turn up when you least expect it.
>
> Abrazos,
>
> Maria
>

RE DNA tests

I've been reading with interest, but with little comprehension, the posts re DNA tests.

What is this "autosomal" thing? Does it cost extra? How is it listed in FTDNA?

I sent in kits for my husband, Antonio Garcia, and myself. My husband's was the YDNA12 and mine was mtDNA, the most basic tests that were on sale for half price at the time due to our fixed income.

My haplogroup was determined to be C, Native American, Pre-Columbian. My mother was a Piro/Tewa from New Mexico.

My husband's haplogroup is T1, Mesopotamian. His people from Jalisco claimed never to have "mixed with Indians" but he was hoping to prove them wrong. His hero is Benito Juarez who was a Zapotec Indian, and he was hoping that somewhere in his lines there was Indian blood, but alas, no. He was crestfallen. I told him that he shares the same haplogroup as a Roman emporer and czars and several crowned heads of Europe, but he was not impressed. He admires the indigenous people of Mexico more.

I find the FTDNA site hard to navigate and hard to find explanations of their various "products" offered. I did find a match for my husband by signing up for their YSearch.org site, someone in Texas by the surname Camacho whose ancestor was a Silva. I have e-mailed this person via the FTDNA system to see if there is a common ancestor. There are no Camacho or Silva in my husband's lines.

My husband's tree is here at NR in the gedcom files. Does anyone with ancestors from Jalisco (Encarnacion de Diaz, Lagos de Moreno, etc) also have haplogroup T1?

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

To Josie: Catalago del Archivo del Registro Publico

>
> Hi Josie,
>
Absolutely, I have time to check. Unfortunately, there are no LIENDO or
LIENDRO surnames in the book. It goes from LEQUERICA to LIZAOLA Y CUETO.
Keep looking...something will turn up when you least expect it.

Abrazos,

Maria

>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 11:04:47 -0500
> From: "Josie T. Trevino"
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] General Digest, Vol 80, Issue 5
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi Maria,
>
> If you have time......would you please look up the surname "LIENDO" and
> sometimes it was spelled "LIENDRO"........I am at a big roadblock with this
> surname in Zacatecas in the late 1600s and the 1700s. From Zacatecas they
> went on to Saltillo but I am needing anything in Zacatecas that I can
> find......Thanks, Maria.......you are so generous!
>
> Hugs,
>
> Josie
>
>
> On Sep 22, 2012, at 5:04 PM, general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgwrote:
>
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 06:29:48 -0700
> > From: mcortez
> > To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Catalago del Archivo del Registro Publico
> > de la Propiedad de Guadalajara
> > Message-ID:
> > <
> CAO0qYYm40QSkFApHEdMp9HvAxGr1z8UJqbMewYAR73iLHJ9+eQ@mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > I borrowed the book: Cat?logo del archivo del Registro P?blico de la
> > Propiedad de Guadalajara : libros, de hipotecas 1566-1820 / by David J.
> > Robinson & Linda Greenow from the California State Library. This book
> > is a Catalog
> > and indexes of the mortgage records of the Archive of the Public Register
> > of Property of Gualalajara. The register was established at the request
> of
> > don Manuel de Mena, escribano publico mayor del Cabildo de Guadalajara
> > (Public Scribe) in March 1721. The Notary was aware of the many
> fraudulent
> > real estate transactions and he wanted to establish this register to
> combat
> > fraud. The Spanish Crown agreed and the register was established. Some
> > transactions recorded also include the sale/purchase of mines, dowry
> > letters, etc.****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > There are indexes in the back of the book by name(s) and places that
> makes
> > it easy to look up the name of an ancestor or the sale of a specific
> > Hacienda, rancho, etc. I have been able to find the ranchos and haciendas
> > where some of my ancestors lived and I was able to learn who bought and
> > sold the rancho or hacienda along with the date of the transaction. For
> > example, I looked up Hacienda del Carrizo where my de la Mora ancestors
> > lived, and found this entry: #977, Mo/Year 6.1737, Nombre del Principal:
> de
> > la Mora, Hurtado, Josef, Propiedades: Cuquio: H. El Carrizo, L. de
> > Mesticacan; H. Sitio los Serritos; Guad: C.**
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > My question is, where can I find the actual documents? Would these
> > documents be part of the Tierras y Propiedades or some other collection
> of
> > documents?****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > If anyone would like me to do a lookup for them please let me know.
> >
> >
> > Maria Cortez
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>

While on the subject of DNA...

...I'd like to remind members that I have created a file with NR members results of Native American mtDNA results (maternal lines only) - please contact me via private message if you would like to include your results in the database.

To view the current file: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/20642

Saludos,
Claudia
www.guadalajaradispensas.com

A little help verifying a record.

I need a little reading a baptismal record that I found. 'm looking for information on my great grandfather (Pilar Valdez) and my great grandmother (Romana Tovar) who moved from Mexico to Texas in 1912 with their two daughters (Elisa and Herlinda. Any ways I found the following record and I'm having a little trouble reading the names. I would appreciate any help confirming what I believe is my great grandfather's baptismal record.

I think the name of the child is Pilar Baldes (I'm making the assumption that the name is mispelled or at least I'm hoping. My great great grandparents were Pedro Valdez and Matina Sandate. Would someone be kind enough to help me translate the record. Thank you.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-20420-25423-54?cc=1860864…

Ayuda con Informacion Matrimonial...

Hola,

Podria alguien hacerme el favor de leer la informacion matrimonial de Patricio Grabriel Hernandez y Antonia Manuela Nunez y decirme el nombre y apellido de los 3 testigos presentados y si se menciona... el parentesco con el novio.

Estoy trantando de leer, pero solo entiendo fragmentos de lo ahi escrito. Este es el "link".

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19039-22235-8?cc=1874591&wc=…

Ante mano... Muchas Gracias,
Roberto Hdez

General Digest, Vol 80, Issue 5

Hi Maria,

If you have time......would you please look up the surname "LIENDO" and sometimes it was spelled "LIENDRO"........I am at a big roadblock with this surname in Zacatecas in the late 1600s and the 1700s. From Zacatecas they went on to Saltillo but I am needing anything in Zacatecas that I can find......Thanks, Maria.......you are so generous!

Hugs,

Josie

On Sep 22, 2012, at 5:04 PM, general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:

>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 06:29:48 -0700
> From: mcortez
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Catalago del Archivo del Registro Publico
> de la Propiedad de Guadalajara
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I borrowed the book: Cat?logo del archivo del Registro P?blico de la
> Propiedad de Guadalajara : libros, de hipotecas 1566-1820 / by David J.
> Robinson & Linda Greenow from the California State Library. This book
> is a Catalog
> and indexes of the mortgage records of the Archive of the Public Register
> of Property of Gualalajara. The register was established at the request of
> don Manuel de Mena, escribano publico mayor del Cabildo de Guadalajara
> (Public Scribe) in March 1721. The Notary was aware of the many fraudulent
> real estate transactions and he wanted to establish this register to combat
> fraud. The Spanish Crown agreed and the register was established. Some
> transactions recorded also include the sale/purchase of mines, dowry
> letters, etc.****
>
> ** **
>
> There are indexes in the back of the book by name(s) and places that makes
> it easy to look up the name of an ancestor or the sale of a specific
> Hacienda, rancho, etc. I have been able to find the ranchos and haciendas
> where some of my ancestors lived and I was able to learn who bought and
> sold the rancho or hacienda along with the date of the transaction. For
> example, I looked up Hacienda del Carrizo where my de la Mora ancestors
> lived, and found this entry: #977, Mo/Year 6.1737, Nombre del Principal: de
> la Mora, Hurtado, Josef, Propiedades: Cuquio: H. El Carrizo, L. de
> Mesticacan; H. Sitio los Serritos; Guad: C.**
>
> ** **
>
> My question is, where can I find the actual documents? Would these
> documents be part of the Tierras y Propiedades or some other collection of
> documents?****
>
> ** **
>
> If anyone would like me to do a lookup for them please let me know.
>
>
> Maria Cortez
>
>

FamilySearch.org

Hey all,

I'm having problems with FamilySearch.org. Have they changed format or something? I'm looking up images and all I get are black pages. I thought it was the new side tool to zoom in/out. This page, for example, is all black. So is every other page I go on. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15087-11664-10?cc=1410092&wc…

I thought I saw this topic posted here, but when I went to look again, I couldn't find it.

Help? :-(

Laura Gonzalez

RITA ISABEL ALVAREZ DE LA CRUZ Y JUAN BECERRA

ALGUIEN ME PUEDE AYUDAR A PALEOGRAFIAR LA PARTIDA DE MATRIMONIO DE JUAN BECERRA Y DE RITA ISABEL ALVAREZ DE LA CRUZ Y DIAZ CASTELLANOS, ELLA HIJA DE CRISTOBAL ALVAREZ DE LA CRUZ Y DE ESTRADA Y DE MARIA ANNA ALVAREZ DE LA CRUZ o DIAZ CASTELLANOS-ALVAREZ DE LA CRUZ, YA QUE LOS PADRES DE JUAN NO LE ENTIENDO, SE CASARON EL 14 DE OCTUBRE DE 1743 EN ATOTONILCO, DE ANTEMANO GRACIAS.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18428-31093-16?cc=1874591&wc…

Introduction

I would like to introduce myself..my name is Juanita Torrez Henniger. We believe that part of my family orginiated from Augascalients and San Luis Potosi. I have been searching for my roots for a few years now. Sometimes the research has been easy, but for my great grandmother's family Tobar or Tovar I have hit a wall. My great grandmother (Romona Tobar/Tovar) passed away one year before I was born so I never got to know her. Romana married Pilar Valdez who was born in San Luis Potosi in 1889. Pilar's parents were Pedro Valdez and Matina Sandate. Pilar and Romona immigrated to Texas in 1912 bringing with them their two daughters Eliza who was born in Piedras Negras (1906) and Herlinda (1912). I'm looking for birth cerificates, bastimal records, marriage records anything. I've searched Family Search, Ancestry.com and other sites.

I have been able to research the Valdez side of the family, but have not been able to get far on Sandate or the Tobar/Tovar of the family. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I know that Pilar worked on the railroads. I have tried to find records for railroads that would list the mexican workers, but have not been able to find that either. One last thing, my Grandfather Esteban always would describe referred to my Great Grandmother Romona as an Indian. Well there I omitted a word he always used to describe her ;) but it seem Great Grandma did not care for her son-in-law very much and had quite a temper.

Once again the families I'm researching are the Tobar/Tovar and the Sandates. Thank you and I look forward to meeting everyone.

General Digest, Vol 43, Issue 2

For those interested in following Los Altos de Jalisco, Northern
California/Sacramento region, you may want to review the life of Martin
Ramirez, incredible artist who spent the later part of his life in an
institution as a result of schizophrenia.

The limited info on his life, indicates he fled Mexico around 1925 after
the Cristero period and was recognized for his work after his death when
much of his work was shown in New York, at the Crocker in Sacramento ...

Here are the links though other's may have info on his geneology..

http://www.metroactive.com/metro/06.20.07/martin-ramirez-0725.html

"""In recent years, thanks to the tireless research of Víctor M. Espinosa
(whose essay, with Kristin E. Espinosa, in the catalog for the show is
invaluable), many particulars about Ramírez have come into focus. He was
born in 1895 in Rincon de Velázquez near the small town of Tepatitlán, east
of Guadalajara in the state of Jalisco.

Los Altos de Jalisco, the region of his birth, maintained a strong Catholic
tradition, and Ramírez absorbed a great deal of Catholic imagery. Much of
that early exposure to church statues and paintings showed up years later in
his art, especially in his monumental paintings of Our Lady of the
Immaculate Conception. A photograph in the Heritage Plaza exhibit shows a
local statue of the Virgin with the iconographic detail of Mary stepping on
the serpent—a detail that Ramírez uses several times in his Madonna
portraits. """

http://www.studio-international.co.uk/reports/ramirez.asp

""""Although great gaps remain in the chronology of the artist's life, it is
known that Ramírez was born in a very religious and conservative part of
Mexico, Los Altos de Jalisco in west-central Mexico. Before leaving Mexico
in August 1925 to seek work in the USA, Ramírez had married and fathered
three girl children. In February 1926, with her husband out of the country,
his wife gave birth to their only son. From 1925 to 1930, Ramírez worked on
the railroad and in the mines of northern California. It seems that the
first traces of his abilities appeared during these years, small drawings in
the margins of letters to his family. In 1931, San Joaquin County police
officers found him homeless, hungry and disoriented and took him to Stockton
State Hospital. Doctors there diagnosed him as manic-depressive. During the
next few years, Ramírez made a number of escapes from confinement but,
finally, in 1934, he returned on his own and thereafter remained in the
institutional system. For all of that time, he did not speak. It seems as if
this was a choice and not a disability. Ramírez spoke Spanish and may have
preferred to express himself in ways that make translation unnecessary. His
works transcend verbal communication and convey, within a single picture,
the essence of a lifetime.

To understand Ramírez, one must have a sense of the changes he experienced
in Mexico and the USA. From 1926-29, a vicious struggle between church and
state tore Mexico and its people apart. Reacting to the anti-clerical
Mexican Constitution of 1917, the rebels waged what they thought of as a
holy war. Ramírez was a Roman Catholic, attended mass and sided with the
rebels. The Ramírez home was destroyed in the conflict and his family lost
everything; when Ramírez received news from home, somehow he decided that
his wife had joined the militant government. At that point, it appears, he
gave up hope of returning to his homeland. Later, in 1952, when a nephew
visited him at the hospital, Ramírez was unwilling or unable to make much of
a connection. """"

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/cultura/52421.html

http://www.tfaoi.com/aa/7aa/7aa869.htm

http://www.marquand.com/index.php?page=book&bookID=1&type=intro

http://www.moifa.org/exhibitions/past/vernacularvisionaries/vvartistram….
html

http://www.folkartmuseum.org/images/2097/afam_2097.pdf

http://www.folkartmuseum.org/images/2118/afam_2118.pdf

Deborah Ortiz

-----Original Message-----
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 3:03 PM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: General Digest, Vol 43, Issue 2

Send General mailing list submissions to
general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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Arias de Aguascalientes

Estoy buscando más información de una familia con el apellido Arias en Aguascalientes a principios de los 1800s. Tengo apuntado a José Miguel Arias Moreno, originario y vecino de la villa de Aguascalientes, hijo legítimo de Antonio Arias y Guadalupe Moreno, casado el 14 de febrero de 1818 en Aguscalientes, AGS, con Guadalupe Dueñas Lara, hija de José Toribio Dueñas Nava y Bonifacia Lara y Lira.

Me pregunto si alguien sabrá algo más de estos Arias, en especial si tienen relación con los Arias de Avella / Arias de Orozco, de los cuáles también desciendo [A través de dos de las hijas de Juan Arias de Avella Valdés y su esposa María Orozco]

Les agradezco su atención y espero sus comentarios.

[PS. Recién subí un nuevo GedCom con más ancestros de la zona, disponible para todos los que quieran revisarlo]

Introduction

Greetings fellow geneaologists!

Hi my name is Mario. The names I am researching are Valadez and Berumen in Jerez, Susticacan, and Tepetongo(Zac).

For the Jalisco part of my family, my interest are in the Gomez Family of Ayutla.

Looking forward to corresponding with everyone.

my best,

Mario

Lagos de Moreno 1872-1875

Alguien sabe donde puedo localizar los archivos de nacimientos (registro civil) registrados en Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco del año 1872 hasta el 1875. Gracias.

Does anybody know where I can locate the birth records (civil registration) from Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco from the year 1872 through 1875. Thanks.

Saludoos,

Favián.

RV: abol 2

Everyone needs to send in a properly formatted genealogy report. Look below for just one of the various standard formats.
[[Todos tienen que mandar un reporte en formato estandarizado de genealogia Mire abajo para un ejemplo de los varios formatos estandarizados]]

It is very important that no living people be included in your report (for security reasons) and please also send me your username.
[[Es importante que no hay ninguna persona que todavia vive en su reporte (por razones de seguridad) y que tambien me mandas su nombre de usario.]]

It is ok to use Oral History and to give approximate information if you don't have the exact information. Use this to approximate: In times past young people married at 20 years of age or younger and they had children more or less every other year.
[[Esta bien si usas Historia Oral y que das informacion approxima si no tienes la informacion exacta. Usa esto para dar approxima informacion: en dias antes jovenes se casaron de edad de veinte anos o mas jovenes. Y tubieron ninos casi mas or menos a uno cada dos anos.]]

==========================
Descendants of Francisco Ignacio de Gordoa

Generation No. 1

1.Francisco Ignacio de Gordoa was born Abt. XX in la region vasca de Espa

Registro Civil de Chinampas,en Ojuelos y Cienega de Mata,en Lagos de Moreno

Hola Primos:

Les pido su ayuda, si algen sabe en donde estan las actas de registro civil de chinampas, y cienega de mata para los años 1882 al 1893.
Ya vi que hay unos años que tienen actas de los primeros seis meses en Ojuelos. y unos que tienen los ultimos seis meses. Tambien me di cuenta de las actas de registro civel de cienega de Mata que existen en lagos de moreno. Pero no puedo encontrar doden se encuentranlos meses y años que faltan. Como ya saben en Cienega de mata jalisco, no mas estan matrimonios, y nada mas un año.

Gracias por su ayuda de antemano.

mary caraveo