Nuestros Ranchos Site

There is an entry in the GEDCOM database for Marcelo Gandara, b: abt 1790.

He is my 4th Great Grandfather. However I find his entry is incomplete and somewhat incorrect.

Here is the data I've compiled to date:

Marcelo Gutierres de la Gandara, b: abt 1779 Huejucar, Jal.
m: Marie Dominga Vela abt 1799.

son of: Francisco Gutierres de la Gandara y Rita Juliana de Leon.

issue:

Maria Antonia Salome Gandara b: 21 Oct 1800.
Jose Ramon Gandara b: 18 Jul 1802.
Maria Rafaela Gandara b: 24 Oct 1804.
Dona Maria Merse del Refugio Gandara b: Sep 1806 (my 3rd Great Grandmother).
m: Don Francisco Valenzuela abt 1828.
Bernardo Gandara b: Aug 1809.
Jose Antonio Luis Gandara b: Oct 1812.
Jose Vicente Esteban Gandara b: 21 Jul 1815.
Juana Maria de San Pablo Gandara b: 26 Jun 1818.
Maria Ruperta de Jesus Gandara b: 27 Mar 1821.
Maria Anastacia Gandara b: Jan 1824.
Francisco Gandara b: abt Dec 1824.

I believe this makes me related to Joseph de Leon, but I'm not sure how.
E-mails to him are non-deliverable.

Hopefully, this helps someone connecting the line.
Roy

Juan de Dios Alvarez es hijo de Juan Antonio Alvarez y Rita Serrano y Rafaela Campos de Antonio Campos y Maria Francisca Castañeda segun el acta de matrimonio del 15 mayo 1793

Juan De Dios Antonio Alvares Serrana Mexico Baptisms, 1560-1950

residence:
Zacatecas, Mexico

parents:
Antonio Cruz Alvares, Rita Serrana

record title:
Mexico Baptisms, 1560-1950

name:
Juan De Dios Antonio Alvares Serrana

gender:
Male

baptism/christening date:
14 Mar 1763

baptism/christening place:
TLALTENANGO DE SANCHEZ ROMAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO

father's name:
Antonio Cruz Alvares

mother's name:
Rita Serrana

indexing project (batch) number:
C60089-7

system origin:
Mexico-ODM

source film number:
443805
momax)

Matiana Servantes Mexico Baptisms, 1560-1950

spouse:
Rafael Cornejo

record title:
Mexico Baptisms, 1560-1950

name:
Anna Maria Cornejo Servantes

gender:
Female

baptism/christening date:
22 Jan 1788

baptism/christening place:
Tlaltenango de Sánchez Román, Zacatecas, Mexico

birth date:
10 Jan 1788

birthplace:
, Tlaltenango De Sanchez Roman, Zacatecas, Mexico

father's name:
Rafael Cornejo

mother's name:
Matiana Servantes

indexing project (batch) number:
C03443-0

system origin:
Mexico-EASy

source film number:
443808

Matiana Servantes Mexico Baptisms, 1560-1950

spouse:
Rafael Cornejo

record title:
Mexico Baptisms, 1560-1950

name:
Ma. Manuela Ermenegilda Cornejo Servantes

gender:
Female

baptism/christening date:
22 Jun 1789

baptism/christening place:
TLALTENANGO DE SANCHEZ ROMAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO

father's name:
Rafael Cornejo

mother's name:
Matiana Servantes

indexing project (batch) number:
C60712-2

system origin:
Mexico-ODM

source film number:
443809

El nombre completo es Mathiana gavriela Carlos servantes y se caso con Rafael Cornejo el 31 dec 1783 M60742

Hi everyone, I am excited to be here on this journey to finding my family roots!
I am not sure how to begin and keep everything as organized as possible for my own peace of mind. I have spent a couple of days at the local lds center attempting to decipher the records. Any tips that you might share will be appreciated.

(I will post another intro with family from Aguascalientes)

Debra Perez

Jesus Perez abt. 1883 married around 1905-1905 Refugia Rodriguez abt. 1882
Jerez Zacatecas

Children:

Luis Perez abt.1905

Pillar Perez abt.1906

Jesus Perez abt. 1907

Jose Rodriguez Perez abt.1911

Antonia Perez abt. 1918 United States

Hey everyone,

Just want to share a find. I'm looking for Castaneda in Jerez, Zac. I came across a Tomas Castanon with parents Gregorio Castanon and Isabel Galvan in Ermita de los Correas, which are the names of my great-grandmother's parents. On a hunch, I looked up the baptismal record and found all the right names, including grandparents. The priest made a mistake on the paternal last name! I feel like Sherlock Holmes. :-)

Still haven't found my great-grandmother Vita Castaneda Galvan, but I've found some of her brothers. Time for bed...

Laura Gonzalez

Erlinda,

I have run into this assertion quite often and it has never been true in my area (except a couple of times)for most people.

I have no idea why this vexing myth continues.

< I was also told we had French blood so the elders were a bit put off when I found no French lineage but Mulato, Spanish? and Yndio.. they insisted there had never been any black slaves in Jerez.. people don't always like what our research shows them. I felt previleged to share the blood of the history of Mexico but not everyone will feel that way.>

------------------------I had the same reaction from some relatives living in Mexico City. They turned out to be Nahuatls only and I did not even continue the discussion with them further after finding the truth in my research.

A female relative became extremely agitated and simply stopped talking to me.
______________________________

For Armando: Re your answer

_________Armando, you are correct here. Please keep pointing that out. I am rather proud of what I am.

________________Correct again!

<...and many gueros have documented ancestry going back many centuries before the French intervention.>

________________True! True! The gueros and redheaded ones as well as the blonds in my family are as far as can be determined are from Spain. No French in sight!

___________________That's about as much probability as there is!

-------------------------------------------------------
Armando and other Nuestros Ranchos Members:

----------------------Esta es una "mazorca dificil de desgranar" I just can't figure out why people insist on this myth either!!!

------------------------I asked my Gramps many years ago about the French staying in Mexico (batalla de Puebla and all). He laughed; then he said the there quite a few that had stayed but that they were dead. He was aware of the French myth. Later I read some where that there were about five+ who deserted (I understand there were many more in reality) and stayed in Mexico. Does anyone have any factual information on that?

--------------------------------------------------------
< I'm curious to hear what people's thoughts are on this issue of so many people claiming they are French in Mexico.>

__________________________Maybe they are not happy being what they are? Maybe it bothers them to be prietos or in between? Maybe that they are light skinned and have prietos in the family? Social climbing? Who knows, but it seems to satisfy some deep need they seem to have.

I am happy to be the capirotada and revoltura that I am. That makes me Mexican and happy with the Great Spirit who made me so!!
------------------------------------------------------------
On the subject of Mariachis

<...[The] word mariachi was in use before the French invasion of Mexico in the 1860s. Shortly after its discovery, the text of this document was published in Mexico City and Los Angeles, and should have laid to rest the marriage theory once and for all. However, old myths die hard, and the public at large and most mariachi musicians themselves continue believing that this uniquely Mexican music owes its name to a foreign source.?

______________________________I have heard that it is because the mariachis themselves want to appeal to the tourist trade and many other unlikely reasons but none make sense.

Prof. Ma Guadalupe Castro Paramo, a seminal researcher of Mexican dance told me that it is more probable that the word mariachi comes from "Maria Arrache", the name given to the Virgin Mary by our ancestors in Mexico. Apparently our ancestors used to take music to the Virgin and it is possible the words became one ending in "mariachi". Prof. Castro Paramo told me that there are several researchers who have already researched the origins of the mariachis and there is a consensus on its origins: mariachis are 100 percent Mexican.

I never pursued deeper knowledge of the subject by I have heard basically the same from other people who are interested in the subject.

This reminds me of what's being said in some circles about the now Saint Juan Diego (that he did not exist and was poor). When I was in second grade in school in Mexicali, B.C. I went to school with a girl who mentioned that her family was descended from the Juan Diego family; being a child I marched myself to her mother and asked about it and she said very seriously that yes they were descended from that family. I wish I had been nosier and found out much more!

Elvira

____________________________________________________________
60-Year-Old Mom Looks 37
TODAY: Mom Reveals Free Wrinkle Trick That Has Angered Doctors
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4ff8804b221fe4a637ast53vuc

Greetings to all: In reviewing my records of ancestors from Zacatecas, Zac I have the following questions and am hoping someone can help me follow thru with these leads:
(1) Oral history has said the "Nestora Rodriguez (vd de Gonzales) was the daughter of an Englishman and was raised by a relative. Her father was the chief of the office responsible for the State of Zacatecas' money known as Casa de Moneda. " These were the exact words of my relative giving the oral history. For Nestora I have found potential relatives who may have raised her as Timotho Rodriguez and Candelaria Esquivel and Epigmenio Ensina and Sirita Rodriguez.

(2) Can someone please provide me with pictures of the following address: Callejon del Indio Triste No 59

(3) Potentially my ancestor lived at (reference found in Barrios de Zacatecas by Fidencio Berumen) "Esta casa del magnanimo espanol, es la que antano occupara la Jefatura de la Zona Militar, en la calle que lleva el nombre de Juan de Tolosa, casa que fuera propiedad ultimamente de la testamentaria del Dr Brena, y en la actualidad de la familia Kuri Brena". The reason why am I trying to locate leads to this entry is because of again oral history that told me: "She had servants and lived in a 3 story mansion in Mexico Citry. This mansion was locate behind the Cathedral on Calle del Reloj and in fron of the Treatro Alarcon" Two different cities but may be refering to same location as I am not familiar with the areas mentioned. Also where can I follow thru on "la testamentaria del Dr Brena".

A lot to ask for yet I am grateful for any assistance as this has been pretty much a brick wall for me. My grandmother never wanted to speak of her early life and I found out why.

Thanks - Anita

Hello Everyone, I've been doing my research on my grandfather's Valdez, (Valdes) line. He was born in La Estancia, Tepetongo, but his line comes from Jerez (Los Cuervos). I've been able to go back to my 4X gr grandfather and there the records have a very large gap. From 1835 to beyond 1849 no records exist on Family Search. I was wondering if anyone has been successful finding records for this period. Perhaps I've missed something.

Thanks for any help anyone can give. It's particularly frustrating, because I think I know who my 5X gr grandfather is but need some records to confirm.

Gracias!

Hey everybody,

I found a marriage entry for two ancestors, Bernardo Antonio Gonzales and Maria Rosalia de Exqueda, but am having trouble reading it since the ink bled thru from the other side. (bottom right side)

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15272-18340-80?cc=1410092&wc…

Specifically, I can't read the groom's mother's name or who are the guys that are mentioned towards the end. Guests? (Hilario Ramos, Jose Gonzales and Miguel Perez.)

I can't read most of the entry, but if it's like others, it's mostly flowery language. I can't see ages listed, did I miss them?

Muchas gracias,
Laura Gonzalez

I have hit a wall, looking for my Grandfather and his family.

Jose Rodriquez Perez 1911 from Zacatecas? was Aguascalientes within Zacatecas borders at that time?

His Fathers name is Jesus Perez

His Mothers name is Refugia Rodriguez

I have asked my Father and he says that he does not know.
At this point, I am not sure if he really does not know or for some reason is
not open to remembering.

I have had success with my Mother's side of the family and
have been able to go back 7 & 8 generations.

Does anyone have any suggestions on this search? Thank you!

Solicito la ayuda de los compañeros. Me he quedado atorado en la investigación de mis ancestros.
El ultimo registro que tengo es el del matrimonio de Lorenzo de Garibaldo con Catalina Surita el cual se efetuo en el Sagrario Metropolitano de Guadalajara el 8 de enero de 1660. No arroja datos sobre los padres de Lorenzo. Solo me dice que es "Natural de la provincia de avalos". La citada provincia de avalos hoy es el sur del estado de jalisco cuya capital, en aquel entonces, era Sayula.
Me encontrado con que Alonso de Avalos jamas hizo registros parroquiales por que no contaba con clérigos en la conquista del sur de jalisco.
Cualquier indicio o información, Sobre el nacimiento de Lorenzo de Garibaldo, de parte de los miembros de Nuestros Ranchos, lo agradeceré.

The basic Y-DNA 12 kit is on sale at FamilyTreeDNA.com for $59 until July 15. I did not see the MtDNA kit on the list below.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

From: noreply@familytreedna.com
To: auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com
Subject: Facts & Genes July 2012
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 11:28:12 -0500

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HI,,,dumb question...i dont know much about my father,,,actually nothing,,,and apparently i descend from the guerrero family not so much the esquivel...anyhow,,the question is..which dna test should i get to insure the most comprehensive results

________________________________
From: "announce-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org"
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Sent: Monday, July 9, 2012 3:00 PM
Subject: Announce Digest, Vol 76, Issue 7

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  1. Re: Announce Digest, Vol 76, Issue 6 (carlos peredo)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 15:07:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: carlos peredo
To: "announce@lists.nuestrosranchos.org"
   
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Announce Digest, Vol 76, Issue 6
Message-ID:
    <1341785248.99112.YahooMailNeo@web125806.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Emilie,
?
I see that you mention some Llanos Valdes in your ancestors, I?m interested in that family because I?ve been tracing the roots of? some very good friends from Morelia,? Mex who are descended from Juan Jos? Llanos Valdes y Agustina Carlos de Godoy , more exactly, from a daughter of this couple, but I haven?t found yet the name of her; I?ve seen that they had a daughter Felipa but don?t know the name of her husband, I only know that the last name of Felipa?s husband (or her sister?s husband) was Erazo and that they had at least one child : Don Rafael de Erazo y Llanos Vald?s who was the father of don Clemente de Llanos Vald?s who came to in?Morelia with his great-uncle : Jacinto de Llanos Vald?s, and here Clemente?became a Supreme Court Judge and originated the above mentioned family.
Don Jacinto de Llanos Valdes was the brother of the?lady who gave birth to Don Rafael de Erazo y Llanos Valdes; my question is : Do you happen to have the ?names of the children of Juan Jos? y Agustina or some information about the Erazos ?
?
Carlos

________________________________
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To: announce@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2012 5:00 PM
Subject: Announce Digest, Vol 76, Issue 6

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Today's Topics:

? 1. My MtDNA Results - to Armando (Emilie Garcia)
? 2. Re: My MtDNA Results - to Armando (Armando)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 16:23:33 -0700
From: Emilie Garcia
To:
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] My MtDNA Results - to Armando
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

Delivery to the following recipients failed.

announce@nuestrosranchos.org

--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com
To: announce@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: RE: [Nuestros Ranchos] My MtDNA Results
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 16:18:00 -0700

Armando,

Thanks again for explaining about the nucleobases not being the same as the haplogroups.

Me gustaria recibir los comentarios de los miembros de nuestros ranchos a
esta direccion de correo , se puede? porque antes de que me robaran mi
direccion de correo electronico yo recibia todos los comentarios en mi
correo y ahora no me podrias ayudar con eso.
Muchas gracias de antemano, Martha Gomez

Hola a todos.
Soy de nuevo ingreso en este foro y quiero investigar la genealogia e historia del apellido Sanchez Castellanos (Hacienda del Cuidado, Zacatecas).
Adjunto el enlace del poco avance que llevo:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/valdesla

Espero que les sea util y tambien que me puedan ayudar.

Saludos
LAValdes

Emilie,
 
I see that you mention some Llanos Valdes in your ancestors, I´m interested in that family because I´ve been tracing the roots of  some very good friends from Morelia,  Mex who are descended from Juan José Llanos Valdes y Agustina Carlos de Godoy , more exactly, from a daughter of this couple, but I haven´t found yet the name of her; I´ve seen that they had a daughter Felipa but don´t know the name of her husband, I only know that the last name of Felipa´s husband (or her sister´s husband) was Erazo and that they had at least one child : Don Rafael de Erazo y Llanos Valdés who was the father of don Clemente de Llanos Valdés who came to in Morelia with his great-uncle : Jacinto de Llanos Valdés, and here Clemente became a Supreme Court Judge and originated the above mentioned family.
Don Jacinto de Llanos Valdes was the brother of the lady who gave birth to Don Rafael de Erazo y Llanos Valdes; my question is : Do you happen to have the  names of the children of Juan José y Agustina or some information about the Erazos ?
 
Carlos

________________________________
From: "announce-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org"
To: announce@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2012 5:00 PM
Subject: Announce Digest, Vol 76, Issue 6

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Today's Topics:

  1. My MtDNA Results - to Armando (Emilie Garcia)
  2. Re: My MtDNA Results - to Armando (Armando)

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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 16:23:33 -0700
From: Emilie Garcia
To:
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] My MtDNA Results - to Armando
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

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--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com
To: announce@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: RE: [Nuestros Ranchos] My MtDNA Results
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 16:18:00 -0700

Armando,

Thanks again for explaining about the nucleobases not being the same as the haplogroups.

Now I have a question about Family Finder.  Is that part of FamilyTreeDNA on their website?  Does it cost extra?  I only signed up for the $99.00 kit when it went on sale for half price a few months ago.  I am on a fixed income.  In this economy $100 dollars is a lot of money for something we don't really "need", which is why it is difficult to get people to do it.

I did a Google search for a haplogroup T and I found an explanation on Wilipedia.  Apparently they are from India? and were the first people to develop agriculture.  Maybe that is why I love to pull weeds and work in my garden.  The T I think is part of the list of "mutations" they sent me, along with A and G and C, but now I think I am back to confusing the nucleobases and haplogroups.

My father's surname is Olague, and in the 1980s I went to the Navarre area in Spain where a Spanish friend from Pamplona told me her folks had a "chalet" near a town called Olague.  They thought my husband was the Olague since he is fair, and they didn't realize I was the Olague.  They all had bright blue eyes, and were mostly dairy farmers.  We saw lots of spotted cows walking back to the barns by themselves past modern houses with TV antennas and nice small cars in the driveways.  They were busy preparing for some kind of festival in front of the only public building we saw, kind of like a bar/inn, white plaster with pretty flowers in planters along the balcony, the men dressed in white with red bandanas and berets on their heads.  They were nice, but we didn't get any information; they were just pleased we liked their little town, etc. 

The Olagues came to the New World in the early 1500s and settled in Panuco, Zacatecas.  There were some Olague brothers who were in the Onate party that went to Santa Fe in 1580 or so, but they soon abandoned the colony and went back to "civilization" in Zacatecas.  Someone in Mexico told me that all Olagues in Mexico are the descendants of these people.  However, I have been unable to bridge the gap between the Olagues in the Onate party and the most distant of my father's ancestors of that surname in Zacatecas.

Attached is the link to the frenchman I was referring to who was from Jalpa Zacatecas and he married in Nochistlan. He married an Olasava, and It's one of my distant relatives, that's why I bothered to read the entry. See the name Blondel from Obisbpado de Land, Francia, the date is 11 Nov 1886.

Adjunto se encuentra el enlace para la partida de Matrimonio de el primer Frances que he encontrado en los archivos de Nochistlan, Zacatecas. La fecha es del 11 de Noviembre de 1886, originario de Land Francia con el nombr de Marcelino Blondel, caso con Agustina Olasava de Tlachichila, Zac.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15697-34520-7?cc=1410092&wc=…

Alicia

I cant seem to find any church records for Tomatlan, Jalisco. I heard the church had burned however am unsure if all records were lost. Or is there another church that was used for marriages, baptisms and deaths? Any information would be helpful. Thank you.

Thank you, Joseph...well said! Anna Miklovic

On Jul 7, 2012, at 8:11 PM, Joseph Puentes wrote:

>
>
> In the past there have been problems with the general topic of Race.
> Personally I don’t have a problem with that topic coming up and being
> exhaustively discussed. The problem comes in when the discussion goes on and
> on and lots of speculation and rumors and other unsubstantiated claims get
> inserted into the discussion. Now I AM NOT saying that is what happened in
> this most recent conversation and by no means was anything said that
> offended or really even bothered me. What I am saying is that continued
> discussion on the topic of RACE tends to get things stirred up more than any
> other topic in the NR group, well anyway that is what I have observed since
> starting the group in 2002 (really? We’ve been around for 10 years, yup my
> wife and I got into our car wreck in April of that year and the group was
> started shortly thereafter as I discovered genealogy, anyway. . .).
>
>
>
> Having said ALL that, let me just say something that will make me backpedal
> from ever saying anything about a topic being taken to private email. Make
> absolutely, I mean ABSOLUTELY sure that everything you say is welded to
> genealogy. Make those comments you are about to share with the group
> solidified in facts that you can back up including references for others to
> verify. If you are going to share “oral history”, hmmm, well make sure that
> you can find some historical background or something that will give you a
> leg to stand on if examined closely. Yes all this will cause one to think
> carefully before hitting the “send” button. Since “RACE” is such a
> potentially ignitable topic I really would like ALL to discuss the topic
> (when it comes up) in such a way that NO ONE can say it is NOT on the topic
> of the genealogy of Jalisco, Zacatecas, and/or Aguascalientes.
>
>
>
> So if you’d like to continue talking about the “French” or other topics of
> race please include references, citations from scholarly works, url’s of
> online genealogical records, etc., etc. etc. YES I’d like to challenge you
> to take the topic deep deep deep into the realm of genealogical research.
>
>
>
> Bonne Journee et faites-vous généalogie
>
>
>
> Joseph
>
>
>
>
>
> Joseph Puentes
>
> Clean@h2opodcast.com
>
> http://h2opodcast.com
>
>
>
>
>

Seldom do I get involved in interfering with a topic, but I was wondering if
there is an interest in setting up a subset of the group that would have
FULL rein to talk about anything absolutely no restrictions??? IF so please
email me PRIVATELY at joseph@nuestrosranchos.org and I'll put you on a list.
If there is enough interest (five or more) then I'll create a yahoo group
and you all can go at it, free-for-all.

In the meantime why don't we move on from the FRENCH thread or those
involved/interested can take it to private email.

Email me and I'll set up that list for y'all.

Joseph

Joseph Puentes

Clean@h2opodcast.com

http://h2opodcast.com

Hello Everyone,
I know this family line has been talked about before on here.
I was recently able to trace my great-grandmother's family all the
way back to a Ysidro Miramontes who married Bernarda de Avila on
Jan.21,1709 in Tlaltenango, Zac. The record states his parents are
Lorenzo de Miramontes and Maria de Santiago.
Using the Gedcom database on here I found a Lorenzo Miramontes but
he's married to an Ana Diaz de Santiago. The name is somewhat similar
and I wonder if they are the same couple. Ysidro Miramontes is not
listed in the Tlaltenango Families database but I believe he could be
their son. Any helpful information would be appreciated.

Gustavo Carrillo

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announce@nuestrosranchos.org

--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com
To: announce@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: RE: [Nuestros Ranchos] My MtDNA Results
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 16:18:00 -0700

Armando,

Thanks again for explaining about the nucleobases not being the same as the haplogroups.

Now I have a question about Family Finder. Is that part of FamilyTreeDNA on their website? Does it cost extra? I only signed up for the $99.00 kit when it went on sale for half price a few months ago. I am on a fixed income. In this economy $100 dollars is a lot of money for something we don't really "need", which is why it is difficult to get people to do it.

I did a Google search for a haplogroup T and I found an explanation on Wilipedia. Apparently they are from India? and were the first people to develop agriculture. Maybe that is why I love to pull weeds and work in my garden. The T I think is part of the list of "mutations" they sent me, along with A and G and C, but now I think I am back to confusing the nucleobases and haplogroups.

My father's surname is Olague, and in the 1980s I went to the Navarre area in Spain where a Spanish friend from Pamplona told me her folks had a "chalet" near a town called Olague. They thought my husband was the Olague since he is fair, and they didn't realize I was the Olague. They all had bright blue eyes, and were mostly dairy farmers. We saw lots of spotted cows walking back to the barns by themselves past modern houses with TV antennas and nice small cars in the driveways. They were busy preparing for some kind of festival in front of the only public building we saw, kind of like a bar/inn, white plaster with pretty flowers in planters along the balcony, the men dressed in white with red bandanas and berets on their heads. They were nice, but we didn't get any information; they were just pleased we liked their little town, etc.

The Olagues came to the New World in the early 1500s and settled in Panuco, Zacatecas. There were some Olague brothers who were in the Onate party that went to Santa Fe in 1580 or so, but they soon abandoned the colony and went back to "civilization" in Zacatecas. Someone in Mexico told me that all Olagues in Mexico are the descendants of these people. However, I have been unable to bridge the gap between the Olagues in the Onate party and the most distant of my father's ancestors of that surname in Zacatecas.

My father told me he was a mestizo, but he also said that his great-grandfather was called "el frances" because he was fair with blue eyes. My father was born almost blond and his eyes were the color of coffee with lots of cream in it; his grandmother gave my mother a lock of his baby hair; it was very light tan, tied with a little ribbon. I don't know what happened to that lock of hair, but it would be useless for DNA testing since it had to have been cut and not pulled. However, in my research of his lines, I found no French at all, only mostly espanoles, very few yndio and one line, the Surianos, had many individuals labeled "mulato". He did say that his surname was "un nombre basco". I heard him tell a priest that.

You know, I do have my father's watch, his wallet, his eyeglasses. I wonder if anyone could pull DNA from that, but I think FamilyTreeDNA can only use the oral swabs for genealogical testing.

With the help of several members of Nuestros Ranchos, I was able to trace my Olagues back to a Pedro Olague who was a captain or something in some town in Zacatecas in the late 1600s, but not in Jerez where my father was born in 1903. Pedro's wife was a Maria Haro I think. Mostly my father's people lived near Jerez in a place called Tepetongo and Salitrillo. Also, in researching my father's Llanos y Valdez I found they linked to a line of Olague Etulain. Maybe Pedro was related to them.

I have tried to find male Olagues on the lists of those who have tested with various DNA labs and can find no one with that name. I have been told that there are some Olagues in Jerez who breed bulls for the bullfights, but I would have to go and knock on their doors, and maybe even then I couldn't get any information since my father and his father and uncles left Mexico in 1913 when my father was only 10 years old. Further, the people from Jerez don't seem interested in genealogy, don't understand why we would want to search ancient records and cemeteries and have our DNA tested. They are more interested in raising cattle and in charriadas or whatever, and of course they only speak Spanish, which I have difficulty with. They don't emigrate over here; they seem to do OK where they are.

Thanks again for the information,

Emilie

Port Orchard, WA

I have an image of a marriage record, but I am having trouble understanding the handwriting. Is there someone here who can translate the document for me. I can read and understand Spanish, but the handwriting of this time is giving me a headache. I will email the file to anyone who is interested in helping. Thanks in advance.

View message

Les agradeceria su orientacion:

Para localizar informacion matrimonial de una pareja ¿cuanto tiempo atras se debe buscar con respecto a la fecha de Matrimonio?
¿Solo se puede encontarar abriendo imagen por imagen?
Saludos a todos
Luis A. Valdes

ANNOUNCE DIGEST
****************************************
I was raised to say Mande Usted whenever my parents or elders called me. It was a sign of respect, but also good breeding (bien criado) per my mother. She would get disgusted whenever she would hear my cousins (who were also raised in the US) say "Que?" To respond, "Que" was considered rude and low class unless you were speaking to another kid.
After taking countless Spanish classes in the US, I learned to say, "como?" but always reserved the Mande Usted for my elders. "Diga" somehow sounded a bit rude and condescending to me. It's almost like you're telling folks to spit it out and say what you want. My parents would never say this even to me as their child.
I guess it varies from culture to culture. My parents are/were from Los Altos de Jalisco. I find that we're a bit more stuffy than other folks from the rest of Mexico and Latin America. I learned of other examples as I began to learn Spanish as a second language.
In present day Mexico, I don't think it has anything to do with nobility or social status. I still hear my cousins in Mexico use this term even with me when we're the same age.

My cinco centavos.
Irma GomezGtz---- N. California

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 15:39:45 -0700
From: Emilie Garcia
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Roy Rodriguez, Jr.
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Roy,

You mentioned differences in usage of words in Spain vs Mexico in addressing people.

There is one other thing that I was aware of growing up with a Native American mother from New Mexico and a Basque-mestizo-mulato father from Zacatecas. He would scold us if we said, "Que?". He insisted we say "mande usted", but my mother refused to do that. She would say "nadie me manda". She would say "como?" or "que?". I noticed in Spain they don't use that term, "mande", and since the New Mexico "manitos" used an old Spanish dialect and were isolated for so long from the centers in Mexico, if that is the reason.

In our Spanish class in school, we learned to say "Como?" or "perdon?", not "Mande", and I noticed in Spain they used the term "Como?" or "diga?".

I also had a maid that insisted on calling me Dona Emilia when I told her to call me Emilia. She could have called me "senora". I felt uncomfortable with the "dona", but then I wondered if she was being sarcastic.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 14:45:38 -0500
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> To: announce@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Roy Rodriguez, Jr.
>
> Hello Raquel,
>
> The use for older people regardless of economic or social status seems to
> have begun in the 20th century in Mexico. It is actually used sparingly in
> Spain, so yes in the 20th century it became more egalitarian in Mexico
> than in Spain. Prior to the 20th century it used more often but only for
> certain classes of people in Spain. The use for non-nobles is ambiguous in
> Mexico but it's use in Nueva Galicia was used mainly for people of high
> regard.
>
> Saludos,
> Armando
>
------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2012 00:55:23 +0000
From: Lester Alvarado
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mande usted Vs como
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi Emile and Roy,

In my house growing up in East L. A. mom would always make us respond to her with ?Mande usted ?she would get furious with us if we didnt . She would say it was a form of respect . I have several good friends from Colombia and from other South American countries that tell me that they never use that phrase and the reason Mexicans use it, is because of the domination of the spanish people .
I dont know if thats true or not but thats what they tell me . Anyone else have any ideas ?

Welester G. Alvarado Carrillo