2. Pedro SANDOVAL  (Francisco de).

Pedro
married²  (1) Juana
CORTES  daughter of Juan CORTES
and Maria PONSE on 3 Jun 1709 in Tlaltenango, Zacatecas.

Pedro Sandoval
and Juana Cortes have a daughter Ysabel Gregoria SANDOVAL Cortes b.
15Dec1715doc, married 10 Nov 1736 doc to Antonio de Vargas CASTANEDA.  We
follow Ysabel's brother Joseph Geronimo SANDOVAL's line.  He was born 5 Jun
1626doc, married 27 Dec 1770doc to Teodora Rosalia GONZALES Mendes.  Joseph
Geronimo Sandoval's first wife was Juana Maria
Mojarra.

We also have Luna
from Tlaltenango, Zac, but I don't find the Luna connection with our
Cortes/Sandoval line. 

Are we
cousins?

Rich and Kitty
Cortez

Rocklin,
CA

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I join you, Alicia, in welcoming Joseph's "tocayo" José.

I don't know if you've heard this one, which I learned thru a 
friend.  Paraphrasing Forrest Gump's memorable quote: "life is like a 
box of chocolates...", our new quote is "Mexican genealogy is like a 
big bowl of tamales, you never know what you're gonna get".  You may 
pull out a pork tamale, or beef, or cheese, beans, coconut, sugar and 
raisins.....

Victor

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Alicia Carrillo  wrote:
> So well put Jose Munoz and welcome to this group.
>  
> I believe that anyone who is searching for their roots in Mexico 
has to be open minded. One can't believe that we're 100% this or 100% 
that. Just by virtue of the fact that we have or are descendants from 
Mexico a land that was invaded by Europeans less than 5 centuries 
ago. A land that was populated by many proud Indian tribes with such 
rich cultures, languages and history. A land that because of it's 
riches was invaded, pilfered

I'm new to this group and read many of the groups
messages.. In my family lines there were hijo and
hijas naturales along with hijo/hijas legitimos. For
example 3 naturals out of family 12. I have a copy of
the Church Marriage Record.... so why a natural
baptism for 3 of them. I have a gggrandfather baptized
as a Don? Why at birth is someone named a don? Heir
apparent? Laborers, Sirvientes, miners.

I have a family line who think they are French. Why?
Because of Grandma's Green eyes! The truth of the
matters is they can not accept the fact they are
Indian decent mixed with espanoles. 

I'm Mexican, born and raised in the U.S., and I'm
proud to be Mexican. My 4th greatgrandfather was
espanol. His brothers and sisters married
espanoles/las. But Ysidro Munoz married an Yndia. My
3th Great, Roque Munoz 1760, a mestizo was at times
recorded on Bautismo records as espanol, coyote, and
lobo? Why such a thing? They were from Rancho de
Banon, Zac., 2nd great Francisco Munoz 1786 a mestizo,
from

I have seen both Dolores and Maria used as men's names
on many records.  Often Maria comes from the given
name Jose Maria  My great-great grandfather's given
name was Jose Dolores.  His marriage record shows that
he used only Dolores when he married my great-great
grandmother.  

--- zendean  wrote:

>  
> Fellow searchers;
>   I have encountered some thing strange in my
> extraction film. I know that "hija natural" means
> that the child has no father. But at times there is
> an man's name written in below the child's name in
> the bapised child list, but not in body of the
> narrative where the names of the parents is listed.
> In your experience, does this mean that the father
> was named , but does not acknowledge that child ?
> Additionally, I sometimes find names for the father
> listed as "Dolores" or "Maria Isvaldo" or
> "Yldlesterialde Isabel". Is that a name for a man ?
> I have never met a man named Dolores but at times a
> woman is named Juan Jesus. Is there a

To add to Victor's comments: I saw a baptismal record in which the body of the form did not include the biological father's name.  The child was identified as "natural".  At the end of the record I saw a sentence in which someone (presumably) the priest wrote that so-and-so had admitted to being the father of the child.  Human nature is frail at times and many rules are seriously bent.  I have also read that priests were very scarce in many of the mission areas.  The priest could show up to marry and baptize once or twice a year.  ometimes once in two or three years.  The absence of a priest did not prevent couples from joining their lives and bearing children.  Thus since the church did not wish to upset people it developed the term "hijo/a natural".  These children were not considered illegitimate although in many church records you will find entries testifying that a father accepted a child as legitimate.  This made it possible for the hijo natural to enjoy whatever inheritance

I wish to add a few comments.  Freedom of expression also includes freedom of using the delete button.  There are many things in this existence which cannot be changed.  Yet mature adults discuss them because of another gift of the creator- intellectual curiosity.  Iagree that so long as folks are respectful of one another good can come of speaking about a subject that might make others uncomfortable.  I would hate to see open-ness stifled.

David

-----Original Message-----
From: Victor Villarreal 
Sent: Jun 23, 2005 8:08 PM
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ranchos] Re: Racial Classifications





No need to be sad, Carol.



It is understandable that talking about these topics related to race 

can be considered tabu.  But we all are mature persons, tolerant of 

each other, and I haven't read any personal insult or something that 

reflects ill will in any message.  



On the contrary, it can be a learning experience to bring