Thanks!
> 
> From: "Victor Villarreal" 
> Date: 2005/06/23 Thu PM 12:14:47 EDT
> To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [ranchos] Re: Joseph's DNA
> 
> 

Literally, it means "cat instead of bear", but the original saying

is "gato por liebre", which would be "cat instead of hare".



Back in the old times, when people used to eat hares, rabbits and

what not, you had to watch out that you were not sold a cat for a

hare, as they would look about the same after taking the skin off and

cut the meat into pieces.



Does it make sense? 





--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com,
wrote:

> Excuse my lack of knowing the spanish language (shame on my

parents!), but what does the term "gato por oso" mean?

> >

> > From: "Emilie Garcia"

> > Date: 2005/06/23 Thu AM 12:59:21 EDT

> > To:

> > Subject: [ranchos] Joseph's DNA

> >

> > So, Joseph,  I couldn't make out a thing on your DNA results.  I

guess I am a surumata.  So, are

Literally, it means "cat instead of bear", but the original saying 
is "gato por liebre", which would be "cat instead of hare".

Back in the old times, when people used to eat hares, rabbits and 
what not, you had to watch out that you were not sold a cat for a 
hare, as they would look about the same after taking the skin off and 
cut the meat into pieces.

Does it make sense?  


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com,  wrote:
> Excuse my lack of knowing the spanish language (shame on my 
parents!), but what does the term "gato por oso" mean?
> > 
> > From: "Emilie Garcia" 
> > Date: 2005/06/23 Thu AM 12:59:21 EDT
> > To: 
> > Subject: [ranchos] Joseph's DNA
> > 
> > So, Joseph,  I couldn't make out a thing on your DNA results.  I 
guess I am a surumata.  So, are you in the haplogroup for African-
Black or for Moroccan-Berber?  What other haplogroups are you in?  
All those numbers scared me.  How could I ever explain such a thing

Excuse my lack of knowing the spanish language (shame on my parents!), but what does the term "gato por oso" mean?
> 
> From: "Emilie Garcia" 
> Date: 2005/06/23 Thu AM 12:59:21 EDT
> To: 
> Subject: [ranchos] Joseph's DNA
> 
> So, Joseph,  I couldn't make out a thing on your DNA results.  I guess I am a surumata.  So, are you in the haplogroup for African-Black or for Moroccan-Berber?  What other haplogroups are you in?  All those numbers scared me.  How could I ever explain such a thing to my cousin?  Maybe the researchers are handing us a gato por oso?
> 
> EmilieGet more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
> 
> 

Wow, all these words make me feel at home! 

-----Original Message-----
From: Alberto Duarte [mailto:albertodua@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 2:59 PM
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Re: Name Calling

My wife is from Los Altos, Jalisco, and she uses both words when she is mad.

Alberto.

--- John Gonzalez 1gnzlz@...> wrote:

> I've heard "tarugo"  and "tarado".  Tarugo as in
> "como eres tarugo"   Not being very smart,  almost
> like "como eres menso".  Tarugo, tarado, and menso are used in about 
> the same context.
> I know, I've been called all three at different times!
> 
> John
> 
> 1gnzlz@...
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: latina1955@... 
>   To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 2:26 PM
>   Subject: Re: [ranchos] Re: Name Calling
> 
> 
>   "Tarayata" sounds linked to "taragua" which I was often called 
> because I was considered lazy when I was younger - I simply didn't 
> enjoy doing the household chores while my

Irma,well said.

Next time you talk to your spanish friends, ask them
to send back all the gold they stole from Mexico (just
kidding).

Alberto.

--- Irma GomezLucero  wrote:

> Hi Emilie,
>     I have been enjoying alll of the recent postings
> on racial
> classification.  Excuse me for now jumping onto the
> soapbox.  :)  I hope
> that I don't offend anyone from what I am about to
> say.  I just don't like
> hearing ignorant racist remarks about Indians,
> Mexicans, etc., and people
> who feel superior to other ethnic groups.  Your
> Spanish friend sounds like
> someone with low self-esteem, (as well as possibly
> uneducated) and in that
> she feels that she should distance herself from
> those that she perceives as
> inferior to herself.  Heaven help her poor Mexican
> American husband that has
> to hear such racist comments.  
>     The Spanish I met in Spain when I travelled
> there are nothing like those
> immigrants from Spain or South America that I have
>

Comments:
I really don't believe 99% of the Mexican people know
their blood line(s)and/or the names of their
ancestors.

I've asked people from both sides (Mexico/US) if they
knew their blood lines or if they knew the names of
their great grandfathers, and most of them answered
"they didn't know."

As far as what was written on a baptism record,
regarding race type, I wouldn't put much believe in
it.

Alberto. 

--- Erlinda Castanon-Long 
wrote:

> In matters of race in the church records from Mexico
> I don't think the people being recorded had any idea
> what was being put in the record for nationality.  I
> have in one family, Mejia from the District of
> Jerez, 5 children with 4 different nationalities
> listed.  Mother is listed as Espanol, father is
> listed as Indio. Their children are listed as 1.
> Espanol, 2. Mulato, 3, Indio, 4 Mestiso and 5.
> Espanol... I have to assume some children were
> darker than others so the scribe made the decision
> what

Esperanza,

Here's a link to a partial list of colonial caste system:

http://www.rootsweb.com/~mexcoahu/caste.html


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, latina1955@a... wrote:
> I could be wrong (my memory comes and goes with this stuff called 
menopause  
> - should be called memorypause), but I think coyote was a term used 
to 
> describe  the mixed blood of Indians and African.  
>  
> There was a chart (perhaps someone can recall it here?) that 
described the  
> various labels placed on the mixture of "races" during the early 
part of the  
> conquest, when race delineation was seen as important by the 
Spanish.  I'll  
> keep looking for this chart, but in the meantime, perhaps someone 
else on the  
> board has easy access to it for reference?
>  
> Esperanza

I just found an answer as to why, when my husband and I have roots in 
Mexico going back to the early 1700's, he and I look so different.  
In message #277 Steven Francisco Hernandez Lopez says "most people 
will eiher have a lot of Inidan, Mestizo, or Mulato line, or very 
little to one at all---all the surnames and families that I have so 
far posted----were of the Spanish Hidalgo class".

I recall some of these names being in my husband's family, and his 
aunt in Mexico City told me that his family on both sides, had never 
mixed with Indians.  To furter quote Steven: "Intermarriage was very 
uncommon---to do so would be to kill all chances of opportunity for 
your children and descendants for all time".  My husband's ancestors 
were always merchants, business owners or government officials."  
Mine were always "farmers" or "laborers".

So now there is a new term for me to wonder about;  The Hidalgo 
Class.  Is this where the term "Don" came from?  Many of my ancestors 
in the