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These forum posts are from the old “Ranchos Archives” which was part of a Yahoo Groups system that operated between 2003-2006. This was a hybrid of electronic mailing lists and internet message boards. The files are “Read Only” and many of the users of the Yahoo Groups are not part of the new NuestrosRanchos membership, so keep this in mind when viewing these message posts and replies.

mt dna testing/GaryFelix

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Historical Archives

here is Gary Felix' answer to some questions by Linda Castanon-Long

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-------- Original Message --------

Subject:	Re: [Fwd: [ranchos] mt dna testing]
Date:	Wed, 22 Jun 2005 03:19:01 -0700 (PDT)
From:	Gary Felix
To:	Joseph Puentes

Hello Joseph, good to hear from you. It is getting hot here in the
Los Angeles area also.

The results are from one ancient ancestor either on the male Ydna
side or the female Mtdna side. With the male side ydna, the most recent
common ancestor can be determined with someone else with probabilities.

Ydna and mtdna are accurate tests. The type of testing that
determines racial percentages is here: http://www.ancestrybydna.com/

This type of test can be unreliable based on those who have taken
the test thus far. It can predict your majority ancestry but so can
someone else to some degree. This test doesn't do

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Joseph's DNA

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I've introduced my knowledge to the subject as far as I can. I defer
questions on DNA to those more in the know than I.

Contact Gary Felix on the previously given website. All I know is that
if you find someone you think you are related to with a different last
name then you will need to compare their male Y DNA with the male Y DNA
of a cousin of yours with the same last name (of course doing all you
can to rule out individuals that might have been adopted). That way
you will see if both sides merge into a common ancestor somewhere back
in history even if its 20 geneations ago.

this DNA thing is complicated if you don't have the time to devote to
it. . .unfortunately that describes me.

joseph

Alicia Carrillo wrote:

I had never heard it said gato por oso meaning a cat disguised
as a bear. Rather I have always heard it and used as gato por liebre,
meaning a cat in the guise of a hare. Different animal, same meaning.

Alicia

Emilie Garcia wro

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Racial Classifications was Moorish or Slave

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Esperanza,

Thanks so much for the information. This really helps me with my research on my mother's side. She was from that 500-year-old gene pool from Juarez-New Mexico. What is that site? Can you e-mail me the link at auntyemfaustus@... ?

Thanks,

Emilie Garica

Port Orchard, WA.

----- Original Message -----

From: latina1955@aolcom

Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:36 PM

To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [ranchos] Racial Classifications was Moorish or Slave

I tried getting into the site, sometimes I can get in, sometimes I can't. Anyway here, in verbose, is what I was remembering - unfortunately, my memory was inaccurate - the term coyote refers to meztizo and Indian.

Esperanza

RACIAL MIXTURE IN COLONIAL NEW MEXICO

Like California and Texas, the Spanish-speaking population of New Mexico was of diverse racial origins. In the account below historian J. Manuel Espinosa, describes the emergence of that population and one example of its consequence, the

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Ranchos 2

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well I'm just so happy you asked that question. I sent out invitationsto Ranchos2 to every new member. Some accept the invite others don't orthere are other reasons for not being a member (hey maybe its moderatorerror). Regardless of the reason all one needs to do is ask and aninvite will be sent to them. Accept the invite and I'll have to processyour request and you're in.

there is a link in the links area of "Ranchos" called "Ranchos2" (offall things) and that will take you to a link that if you click on itwill take you to the files area of Ranchos2 (which by the way iscurrently at 83%capacity, which means I might need to get my wife toopen up a briefcase of her own one day soon and have her donate it tothe Ranchos group to accomodate the non-genealogy stuff for the group).


the invite is on its way for you Natalie,

also there are a few others of you that are not members but if you'rehappy not having access to Ranchos2 then I'm happy. If sometime in thenea

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Racial Classifications was Moorish or Slave

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http://www.theblacklist.net/Afro-Mexicans.htm

latina1955@... wrote:

I tried getting into the
site, sometimes I can get in, sometimes I can't. Anyway here, in
verbose, is what I was remembering - unfortunately, my memory was
inaccurate - the term coyote refers to meztizo and Indian.

Esperanza

http://faculty.washington.edu/qtaylor/Courses/313_AAW/313_manual_cp_01.htm

RACIAL MIXTURE IN
COLONIAL NEW MEXICO

Like California and
Texas, the Spanish-speaking population of New Mexico was of diverse
racial origins. In the account below historian J. Manuel Espinosa,
describes the emergence of that population and one example of its
consequence, the role of blacks and mulattos in the famous Pueblo
Indian Revolt of 1696

Among the
colonists, those of predominately Spanish blood dominated the patterns
of social life and customs. In the beginning there was clearly a
considerable number of Spanish-born citizens, with a handful of
non

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Yndio Genizaro

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Historical Archives

David, thanks for the explanation of Indio Genizaro. Yes, that is where I have seen the term, in the same place you saw it, while I was researching my mother's lines from Juarez (the former Paso del Norte)and New Mexico. My great-great grandfather from Senecu near Juarez had Piro blood (maybe where I get my coloring). Maybe he was one that was "rescued" and given the Spanish surname of my mother. Many of the people I talk to tracing lines in that area also speak of a relative or two that were "adopted" from the Apaches or who had Apache mothers. Very interesting.

You sound like one of my cousins in Las Cruces, New Mexico. When he found out about our Indian heritage, he became a war captain of the Piro-Manso-Tewa tribe and has tried to get federal recognition for the tribe. I will be posting my mother's trees to the Ciudad_Juarez group that Joseph started, so check it out. I would also like to see your trees. E-mail me at auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com.

Emilie Garcia

Port Orchard

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Ranchos 2

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Where can I find information regarding how to properly access the files 
in Ranchos 2? How does one become a member? Thanks for your help.

Natalie

Racial Classifications/DIGEST!!!

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there was a lot of confusion and variation, it seems, with this race
determination. Its understandable since it was such a subjective
undertaking.

look in the "files" area of Ranchos 2 and you will find another list of
racial definitions which have Coyote being a certain percentage of Black

but thanks much for giving us this information as it will point out in
the literature how "unsure" the various determining individuals were in
their classifications:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ranchos2/files/Racial%20Classification/

joseph

ps: ANYONE READY FOR THE DIGEST MODE???? let me know
if you want me to switch you!!!

latina1955@... wrote:

I tried getting into the
site, sometimes I can get in, sometimes I can't. Anyway here, in
verbose, is what I was remembering - unfortunately, my memory was
inaccurate - the term coyote refers to meztizo and Indian.

Esperanza

RACIAL MIXTURE IN
COLONIAL NEW MEXICO

Like California and
Texas, the Spanish-speaking

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Racial Classifications was Moorish or Slave

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Historical Archives

Wow, those charts and photos are mind-boggling. I am really getting an education.

The mixing of the races in Mexico has led to a particular typically Mexican look, I think. My husband, who looks white (I call him viejo Gachupin pelon sordo) calls the typical Mexican the result of the Mestizaje. Yet no two Mexicans could look more different than he and I, he 6 ft, me 5 ft; we could have been the Espanol and the Indian pictured in the photos. Yet I can trace both of our lineages back to the early 1700's in Mexico.

My Spanish-Basque friend said that when she met her Mexican-American serviceman husband in Pamplona (he looks like me) she was fascinated by his appearance. She said she had never seen anyone with the planes of the face like mine and his. In profile we have small noses in line with the chin and forehead, whereas she and my husband have the look of Europeans, yet different. He has a large Roman nose with receded chin and forehead in profile and he is bald on top

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Joseph's DNA

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Someone else in the group said "gato por oso". That is easier for me to say than "liebre". I am not familiar with any Spanish sayings, unfortunately It was all new to me.

Emilie

----- Original Message -----

From: Alicia Carrillo

Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:32 PM

To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [ranchos] Joseph's DNA

I had never heard it said gato por oso meaning a cat disguised as a bear. Rather I have always heard it and used as gato por liebre, meaning a cat in the guise of a hare. Different animal, same meaning.

Alicia

Emilie Garcia wrote:

So, Joseph, I couldn't make out a thing on your DNA results. I guess I am a surumata. So, are you in the haplogroup for African-Black or for Moroccan-Berber? What other haplogroups are you in? All those numbers scared me. How could I ever explain such a thing to my cousin? Maybe the researchers are handing us a gato por oso?

Emilie

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