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Hello,
I am looking for a baptismal record for Maria Valentina Barrientos/varrientos Gonzales (1819). My search has brought some questions to mind.
- Why are the childrens last name sometimes the mothers and other times the fathers are they interchangeable with middle and last? Is there a reason/tradition behind it?
- Why are some last names de Barrientos for example of Gonzales y Barrientos?
- also some records specify espanol or casta but others do not specify in the title, is there a reason for this?
Finally, the Aguascalientes record I am looking for is El Sagrario, but 5 out of 7 of them are El Sagrario whats the difference, where do I look?
Thanks in advance for the help
Monica
Hola,
Estoy buscando una registro de bautismo de María Valentina Barrientos / varrientos Gonzales (1819). Mi búsqueda ha traído algunas preguntas a la mente.
- ¿Por qué los apellidos de algunos niños a veces lelevan de las madres y otras veces los padres, son intercambiables con segundo nombre y apellido? ¿Hay alguna razón / tradición detrás de esto?
- ¿Por qué algunos apellidos son de Barrientos, por ejemplo, o de González y Barrientos, o solamente Gonzales Barrientos?
- También algunos registros especifican Español o de Castas, pero otros no se especifica en el título, ¿hay alguna razón para esto?
Finalmente, en el registro de Aguascalientes estoy buscando es El Sagrario, pero 5 de 7 de ellos son El Sagrario cuál es la diferencia?
Gracias de antemano por la ayuda
Monica
El Sagrario Aguascalientes Records questions
Dear Monica,
From early medieval times up to the Reformas Borbónicas (late XVIII century) the custom of surnames did not include a definite rule or order. A person could technically pick whichever surname he chose or deemed worthy of his/her benefit. This was based on persona preference. Often, woman took on maternal names, while men took their father’s; some examples include Alonso Guerra Valadés & Juan López de Elizalde who took on their mother’s names, but was not always the case.
Other times, children took on grandparent’s name for example if they were a namesake or they could choose a surname of an illustrious ancestor. This often occurred with the nobility, titled, untitled hijosdalgos and mayorazgos that often “forced” the possessor to carry down the name. Many times, within the same family this would occure. If Pedro Rodríguez de la Vera married Ana Gómez Pérez de Escalante and had seven children were born into this union. Four of the kids would use Rodríguez de la Vera, while two daughters used Franco de Escalante after their grandmother and the last one would use Pérez de Montoya after their great grandfather.
It also becomes more complicated when two houses joined or compounded their surname. Many if not all Spanish surnames were created this way, often referred as a sole practice of nobility, but is not always the case, it really depends on each individual family. Many examples can be found throughout all of Mexico. A great example would be the Hurtado de Mendoza family of Los Altos de Jalisco. Through compounding, this house created many new families: Jiménez de Mendoza, Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza, Gutiérrez de Mendoza, Ornelas y Mendoza, Sánchez de Mendoza, etc, though they all have a common trunk.
My personal examples would be Méndez de Torres. My paternal last name was created when Antonio Méndez de Sotomayor married María de Torres Fuentes in the late XVI century. My mother’s is Camino y Trasgallo or Camino-Trasgallo created when Antonio de Camino married Ana de Trasgallo y Escorza in the mid XVIII century.
Many surnames say González de Hermosillo and Pérez de Paredes, over time descendants lost the significance of their surname and shortened to Hermosillo or González. I read once that often they sounded too Spanish or pro-penínsular and many changed or shortened their names, but this does not convince me. The independenc replaced peninsular régime with a criollo régime. The kids took over the parent’s position. It would be more convenient to be introduced as José González Pérez then José González de Hermosillo y Pérez de Paredes. However there are many throughout México that still use the original González de Hermosillo, especially in Aguascalientes and Guadalajara. The other day I was watching on a Spanish channel about a haunted hacienda in the limits of Guadalajara, the original owners were a Flores Alatore and González Rubio in the late XIX century. However if this José González Pérez were to research his genealogy, he would eventually find out his original last names were González de Hermosillo and Pérez de Paredes. This could explain your González y Barrientos or González-Barrientos or González de Barrientos. As for the preposition “de” or “y” this can get complicated. Officially on records now days, I don’t think you would see “y”, I could be wrong. I heard once that Mexico City and Spain still conserve this. During colonial times it was common to see “de”, “de la”, “del”,“y”
During the colonial era, each person usually was placed in a casta or caste. Colonial America had a standard caste system all were placed in one, when they were baptized. Whether español (European, I found out this did not solely mean Spanish descent), mestizo (mixed), negro, lobo, etc. It was difficult for people to “move up” unless they married español. In one of my lines I have mestizos passing as “españols” and marrying español this created castizo children or ¾ European and ¼ Amerindian children. A perfect example of this would be my Purépecha line of descent from Tzinzticha Tangaxoan II whose descendants married into español. Also, the Moctezuma line that married into español.
I hope this helps and that I stated everything clearly. Without a doubt this a very interesting subject. If you need help on your genealogy, just ask away, I usually have some extra time on my hands. I am well informed in Aguascalientes genealogy, my mother’s beautiful city.
Daniel Méndez-Camino
Thank You Daniel!
Daniel,
Thank you so much for the clarification. You couldn't have been more clear. I appreciate you taking the time to explain in such detail. I have learned so much from being in this group and I continue to do so everyday, with the help and patience of people like yourself.
I am very grateful for your offer of assistance as well, and will certainly take you up on it in the near future, as I have so much more research to do.
Thanks again so much!
Best regards,
Monica Ochoa