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By ArturoG |

I'm reading this page of a dispensa from 1805 and I'm trying to figure if the three individuals named (Nicolas Viramontes, Carlos Gonzalez, and Seferino Gonzalez) are related to the the bride and groom.

The short story is that the groom (Antonio Baldovinos Gonzalez) kidnapped the bride (Antonia Viramontes Medina) after the father refused to permit them to marry when their 4-degree consanguinity was revealed by the marriage investigation. This page of the dispensa describes how it all went down:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18413-91634-14?cc=1874591&wc…

One sentence that I can't fully make out reads: "...la extrajaron la noche citada Dn. Nicolas Viramontes, Dn. Carlos, Dn. Seferino Gonzalez, de?? dentro del segundo grado de los prentensos..." Can anyone figure out what the words are that I've marked with d?? ?

I was hoping to determine if indeed these three are related to the bride and groom. If they are 2nd degree related, how are these three men related of the bride and groom?

FYI, the family tree for the bride and groom is:

Catarina Benegas
Alexo Gonzalez Elvira Covarrubias [m: Matheo Albarado]
Juan [Carlos] Gonzalez Manuel[a] Albarado [b: Jan 12, 1717, El Teul]
Rita Gonzalez Christoval Viramontes
Antonio Baldovinos Antonia Viramontes

Thank you
Arturo

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dpdelgadol

12 years 8 months ago

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Arturo,

I see the following: "... todos dentro del segundo grado de los pretensos ...". This means that all three men are related to both 'pretensos' in the second degree. Hope this helps you.

David Delgado
Albany, CA

-----Original Message-----
>From: agon123@gmail.com
>Sent: Mar 15, 2012 10:23 AM
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Relationship to bride and Groom from 1805 Jalpa Dispensa
>
>I'm reading this page of a dispensa from 1805 and I'm trying to figure if the three individuals named (Nicolas Viramontes, Carlos Gonzalez, and Seferino Gonzalez) are related to the the bride and groom.
>
>The short story is that the groom (Antonio Baldovinos Gonzalez) kidnapped the bride (Antonia Viramontes Medina) after the father refused to permit them to marry when their 4-degree consanguinity was revealed by the marriage investigation. This page of the dispensa describes how it all went down:
>https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18413-91634-14?cc=1874591&wc…
>
>One sentence that I can't fully make out reads: "...la extrajaron la noche citada Dn. Nicolas Viramontes, Dn. Carlos, Dn. Seferino Gonzalez, de?? dentro del segundo grado de los prentensos..." Can anyone figure out what the words are that I've marked with d?? ?
>
>I was hoping to determine if indeed these three are related to the bride and groom. If they are 2nd degree related, how are these three men related of the bride and groom?
>
>FYI, the family tree for the bride and groom is:
>
> Catarina Benegas
>Alexo Gonzalez Elvira Covarrubias [m: Matheo Albarado]
>Juan [Carlos] Gonzalez Manuel[a] Albarado [b: Jan 12, 1717, El Teul]
>Rita Gonzalez Christoval Viramontes
>Antonio Baldovinos Antonia Viramontes
>
>Thank you
>Arturo

The word I can't make out is the one just after "Gonzalez," and before "dentro".

As far as second degree consanguinity, is this limited to first cousins, or could this also include, for example, grandparents and uncles?

I'm hoping that the word I can't make out will narrow down which type of relationship these folks have with the couple.

Arturo, its says "dentro del segundo grado..."

This PDF should also help you figure out which family members are included in second degree. http://www.spido.info/legislacion/murcia/permisosylicencias/consanguini…

Hope this helps.
Saludos,
Claudia
www.guadalajaradispensas.com

Thanks for this Claudia, and also for the great work you're doing on the Guadalajara dispensas.

As far as the relationships go, Seferino Gonzalez, Carlos Gonzalez and Nicolas Viramontes are not the grandparents as shown in the family tree, so they would have to be brothers (or brothers in law). I can see Nicolas Viramontes being the brother of Antonia Viramontes, but I'm not sure that Seferino or Carlos Gonzalez are brothers of the groom or bride.

If this Seferino Gonzalez is the same from a wedding in 1796, his parents are Jose Maria Gonzalez and Gertrudis Valdovinos, and was born around 1771, 9 years prior to the birth of groom. Since brothers and sisters tended to married into the same family, I suspect that Rita Gonzalez (the mother of the groom) is the sister of Jose Maria, and Gertrudis is the sister of Esteban Valdovinos (the father of the groom). That would make Seferino the cousin of the groom, Antonio. I don't have any information about Carlos Gonzalez, but since his last name isn't Valdovinos, he would have to be a half-brother in order for the second-degree relationship to hold.

Regardless, looks like the relationships weren't cleared up after all by this document. Hopefully the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle will fall into place with more information.

Genealogy Research