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By alicebb |
Good Evening Grupo,
Hope all had a good holiday season. A resolution of mine is to get back to my genealogical research even though brick walls can be so frustrating!
The link is to the "report" by the bishop of Guadalajara's visit to Monterrey in 1741. I'd like help translating what is said on the bottom of the right hand side of image 195. Specifically what is written about Martin Arrambide, my 7xgrandfather. I believe he's being appointed to start a school, but I'm wondering if his age or nationality are mentioned.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-159379-650430-94?cc=1410092&…
Thank you so much for all your help.
Alice Blake
clarification please
Luis Valdés
algunas correcciones que pueden ayudar:
...Maestro de escuela Don Martín Arrambide, vecino de este cuidad y ser a propósito para el ministerio, por tanto su Sa (¡Señoria?) Ilustrísima lo nombra por tal maestro de escuela, encargándole mucho la buena educación de los niños de dicha cuidad que ocurriesen a su escuela y manda al (Vical Juez quide???) que cada seis meses visite la escuela y procure que los niños estén bien educados en las oraciones, doctrina cristiana, santo temor de dios y buenas costumbres, y en caso de que haya algún bienhechor que deje alguna renta para ayuda de mantener al maestro, cuide mucho de su principal y que permanezca la obra pía y así mismo procure con esfuerzo que los padres de aquellos niños que tuviesen posibilidad, contribuyan a dicho maestro con lo que fuere justo como es de razón...
Era costumbre que algunas personas con dinero al morir dejaban parte de su herencia en una Obra Pía. El capital (principal) invertido en algún negocio y las rentas que dejaba el negocio era para beneficio de una buena obra, como en este caso para ayudar a pagar al maestro.
clarification please
Gracias Luis, casi lo atine!!
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 5, 2013, at 9:57 AM, valdesla@prodigy.net.mx wrote:
> Luis Valdés
> algunas correcciones que pueden ayudar:
>
> ...Maestro de escuela Don Martín Arrambide, vecino de este cuidad y ser a propósito para el ministerio, por tanto su Sa (¡Señoria?) Ilustrísima lo nombra por tal maestro de escuela, encargándole mucho la buena educación de los niños de dicha cuidad que ocurriesen a su escuela y manda al (Vical Juez quide???) que cada seis meses visite la escuela y procure que los niños estén bien educados en las oraciones, doctrina cristiana, santo temor de dios y buenas costumbres, y en caso de que haya algún bienhechor que deje alguna renta para ayuda de mantener al maestro, cuide mucho de su principal y que permanezca la obra pía y así mismo procure con esfuerzo que los padres de aquellos niños que tuviesen posibilidad, contribuyan a dicho maestro con lo que fuere justo como es de razón...
>
> Era costumbre que algunas personas con dinero al morir dejaban parte de su herencia en una Obra Pía. El capital (principal) invertido en algún negocio y las rentas que dejaba el negocio era para beneficio de una buena obra, como en este caso para ayudar a pagar al maestro.
clarification please
Barbara and Luis,
Thank you very much. Your help allowed me to get a better understanding of what was being said.
Alice
--- On Sat, 1/5/13, valdesla@prodigy.net.mx wrote:
From: valdesla@prodigy.net.mx
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] clarification please
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 5:57 PM
Luis Valdés
algunas correcciones que pueden ayudar:
...Maestro de escuela Don Martín Arrambide, vecino de este cuidad y ser a propósito para el ministerio, por tanto su Sa (¡Señoria?) Ilustrísima lo nombra por tal maestro de escuela, encargándole mucho la buena educación de los niños de dicha cuidad que ocurriesen a su escuela y manda al (Vical Juez quide???) que cada seis meses visite la escuela y procure que los niños estén bien educados en las oraciones, doctrina cristiana, santo temor de dios y buenas costumbres, y en caso de que haya algún bienhechor que deje alguna renta para ayuda de mantener al maestro, cuide mucho de su principal y que permanezca la obra pía y así mismo procure con esfuerzo que los padres de aquellos niños que tuviesen posibilidad, contribuyan a dicho maestro con lo que fuere justo como es de razón...
Era costumbre que algunas personas con dinero al morir dejaban parte de su herencia en una Obra Pía. El capital (principal) invertido en algún negocio y las rentas que dejaba el negocio era para beneficio de una buena obra, como en este caso para ayudar a pagar al maestro.
clarification please
Hello Alice,
I gave that paragraph a little time and I did not see where your ancestor's nationality or age was given. I won't interpret what I read, but this is what it looked like to me.
...Mallestro de escuela Dn. Martin Arambide vecino de este cuidad y ser aproponto para el aministeris por tanto su santa almas se nombra for tal mallestro a escuella en Cargandole mucho la buena educacion de los minors de tal cuidad que ocurriessen a su escuela y manda al Vical Juez quide que cada sies meses viale(I think its suppose to be vijale) la escuela y procure que los ninos esten bien educados en los oraciones, doctrinas christiana santo temor de dios y buenas costumbres y en caso de que aiga algun bien echos que dese algunas para alluda de mantener al mallestro cuide much de sus prinsipal y que permanesca la obra pa ? mesmo procure con esfuerso que los paones de aquellos ninos que tubierren posibilidad contribuigan a dicho mallestro con lo que fuere justo como es de rason...
Not sure how much this may help, but it's what it looked like to me.
On Jan 4, 2013, at 4:44 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
> Good Evening Grupo,
> Hope all had a good holiday season. A resolution of mine is to get back to my genealogical research even though brick walls can be so frustrating!
> The link is to the "report" by the bishop of Guadalajara's visit to Monterrey in 1741. I'd like help translating what is said on the bottom of the right hand side of image 195. Specifically what is written about Martin Arrambide, my 7xgrandfather. I believe he's being appointed to start a school, but I'm wondering if his age or nationality are mentioned.
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-159379-650430-94?cc=1410092&…
> Thank you so much for all your help.
> Alice Blake
clarification please
Hello Barbara,
Thanks so much for your response. Since I'm not educated in Spanish, much less old Spanish, I'm not sure what it all means. Arrambide is to visit the school every six months to make sure students are learning? At the end, I get the impression the bishop is asking the students to pay the teacher? Very confusing. I appreciate your effort. Alice
--- On Sat, 1/5/13, Barbara Andrews wrote:
From: Barbara Andrews
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] clarification please
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 5:08 AM
Hello Alice,
I gave that paragraph a little time and I did not see where your ancestor's nationality or age was given. I won't interpret what I read, but this is what it looked like to me.
...Mallestro de escuela Dn. Martin Arambide vecino de este cuidad y ser aproponto para el aministeris por tanto su santa almas se nombra for tal mallestro a escuella en Cargandole mucho la buena educacion de los minors de tal cuidad que ocurriessen a su escuela y manda al Vical Juez quide que cada sies meses viale(I think its suppose to be vijale) la escuela y procure que los ninos esten bien educados en los oraciones, doctrinas christiana santo temor de dios y buenas costumbres y en caso de que aiga algun bien echos que dese algunas para alluda de mantener al mallestro cuide much de sus prinsipal y que permanesca la obra pa ? mesmo procure con esfuerso que los paones de aquellos ninos que tubierren posibilidad contribuigan a dicho mallestro con lo que fuere justo como es de rason...
Not sure how much this may help, but it's what it looked like to me.
On Jan 4, 2013, at 4:44 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
> Good Evening Grupo,
> Hope all had a good holiday season. A resolution of mine is to get back to my genealogical research even though brick walls can be so frustrating!
> The link is to the "report" by the bishop of Guadalajara's visit to Monterrey in 1741. I'd like help translating what is said on the bottom of the right hand side of image 195. Specifically what is written about Martin Arrambide, my 7xgrandfather. I believe he's being appointed to start a school, but I'm wondering if his age or nationality are mentioned.
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-159379-650430-94?cc=1410092&…
> Thank you so much for all your help.
> Alice Blake
clarification please
Hi Alice, It sounded to me that he was being appointed to teach the children of the poor (paones) in the town of Cargandole. He is being charged with having someone go every six months and check on the progress to make sure the children are well educated in all christian doctrine. He is also being charged with the task of making sure that the children continue to keep up their education, and yes, I think the last part is saying that some of these children may actually be able to contribute to assist said teacher and pay back fairly what is right.
Although I can read the words, some words have different meaning back in those days than what we know them to mean today. However, I believe that to be the gist of what is meant.
Good Luck
On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:57 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
> Hello Barbara,
> Thanks so much for your response. Since I'm not educated in Spanish, much less old Spanish, I'm not sure what it all means. Arrambide is to visit the school every six months to make sure students are learning? At the end, I get the impression the bishop is asking the students to pay the teacher? Very confusing. I appreciate your effort. Alice
>
>
> --- On Sat, 1/5/13, Barbara Andrews wrote:
>
>
> From: Barbara Andrews
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] clarification please
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 5:08 AM
>
>
> Hello Alice,
>
> I gave that paragraph a little time and I did not see where your ancestor's nationality or age was given. I won't interpret what I read, but this is what it looked like to me.
>
> ...Mallestro de escuela Dn. Martin Arambide vecino de este cuidad y ser aproponto para el aministeris por tanto su santa almas se nombra for tal mallestro a escuella en Cargandole mucho la buena educacion de los minors de tal cuidad que ocurriessen a su escuela y manda al Vical Juez quide que cada sies meses viale(I think its suppose to be vijale) la escuela y procure que los ninos esten bien educados en los oraciones, doctrinas christiana santo temor de dios y buenas costumbres y en caso de que aiga algun bien echos que dese algunas para alluda de mantener al mallestro cuide much de sus prinsipal y que permanesca la obra pa ? mesmo procure con esfuerso que los paones de aquellos ninos que tubierren posibilidad contribuigan a dicho mallestro con lo que fuere justo como es de rason...
>
> Not sure how much this may help, but it's what it looked like to me.
>
>
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 4:44 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
>
>> Good Evening Grupo,
>> Hope all had a good holiday season. A resolution of mine is to get back to my genealogical research even though brick walls can be so frustrating!
>> The link is to the "report" by the bishop of Guadalajara's visit to Monterrey in 1741. I'd like help translating what is said on the bottom of the right hand side of image 195. Specifically what is written about Martin Arrambide, my 7xgrandfather. I believe he's being appointed to start a school, but I'm wondering if his age or nationality are mentioned.
>> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-159379-650430-94?cc=1410092&…
>> Thank you so much for all your help.
>> Alice Blake
clarification please
Thank you so much, Barbara. It's good to know I'm on the right track. Alice
--- On Sat, 1/5/13, Barbara Andrews wrote:
From: Barbara Andrews
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] clarification please
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 6:29 AM
Hi Alice, It sounded to me that he was being appointed to teach the children of the poor (paones) in the town of Cargandole. He is being charged with having someone go every six months and check on the progress to make sure the children are well educated in all christian doctrine. He is also being charged with the task of making sure that the children continue to keep up their education, and yes, I think the last part is saying that some of these children may actually be able to contribute to assist said teacher and pay back fairly what is right.
Although I can read the words, some words have different meaning back in those days than what we know them to mean today. However, I believe that to be the gist of what is meant.
Good Luck
On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:57 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
> Hello Barbara,
> Thanks so much for your response. Since I'm not educated in Spanish, much less old Spanish, I'm not sure what it all means. Arrambide is to visit the school every six months to make sure students are learning? At the end, I get the impression the bishop is asking the students to pay the teacher? Very confusing. I appreciate your effort. Alice
>
>
> --- On Sat, 1/5/13, Barbara Andrews wrote:
>
>
> From: Barbara Andrews
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] clarification please
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 5:08 AM
>
>
> Hello Alice,
>
> I gave that paragraph a little time and I did not see where your ancestor's nationality or age was given. I won't interpret what I read, but this is what it looked like to me.
>
> ...Mallestro de escuela Dn. Martin Arambide vecino de este cuidad y ser aproponto para el aministeris por tanto su santa almas se nombra for tal mallestro a escuella en Cargandole mucho la buena educacion de los minors de tal cuidad que ocurriessen a su escuela y manda al Vical Juez quide que cada sies meses viale(I think its suppose to be vijale) la escuela y procure que los ninos esten bien educados en los oraciones, doctrinas christiana santo temor de dios y buenas costumbres y en caso de que aiga algun bien echos que dese algunas para alluda de mantener al mallestro cuide much de sus prinsipal y que permanesca la obra pa ? mesmo procure con esfuerso que los paones de aquellos ninos que tubierren posibilidad contribuigan a dicho mallestro con lo que fuere justo como es de rason...
>
> Not sure how much this may help, but it's what it looked like to me.
>
>
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 4:44 PM, Alice Blake wrote:
>
>> Good Evening Grupo,
>> Hope all had a good holiday season. A resolution of mine is to get back to my genealogical research even though brick walls can be so frustrating!
>> The link is to the "report" by the bishop of Guadalajara's visit to Monterrey in 1741. I'd like help translating what is said on the bottom of the right hand side of image 195. Specifically what is written about Martin Arrambide, my 7xgrandfather. I believe he's being appointed to start a school, but I'm wondering if his age or nationality are mentioned.
>> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-159379-650430-94?cc=1410092&…
>> Thank you so much for all your help.
>> Alice Blake