Hi Bill, Christopher and everybody in this group.

I want to share you what I've learned about the cases of "hijo de padres no conocidos".

In my case, my 5th great grandfather, Don Luis de Agraz, was listed in his marriage record as "español, hijo de padres no conocidos y de niño expuesto en la casa de Don José Lino de Agraz" this means that apparently he was adopted. The woman with whom he married was suposed to be his first cousin, Doña María Valentina de la Cueva y Ramírez de Prado, but a dispensa wasn't required because he was not the son of Doña Juana Mauricia de la Cueva y Benavides, José Lino's wife.

Okay, so at this moment I thought that was the end of my most important branch in my family tree because it's my first surname. When I checked, the book that my uncle Gabriel had written about my family, I saw that he was able to find the baptismal record of Luis. He was listed as "Luis Dionisio Rafael, español, de dos días de nacido, hijo de padres no conocidos y fueron sus padrinos Don José Lino de Agraz y Doña Juana Mauricia de la Cueva". On the same page there were other cases of children listed as hijos de padres no conocidos, but the priest couldn't precise the date of their birth he wrote down things such as "al parecer de 10 días de nacido" or he didn't write down the number of days the child had.

My uncle Gabriel,still listed Luis as a legitimate son of José Lino in the book, but I suposed that since the book was printed in 1950's and he died in 2009 he could have found the real parents of Luis. When I talked some months ago with one of Gabriel's sons also interested in Genealogy and History, he told me that his father had told him that Luis was an illegitimate son of a woman of the Agraz family with a lower class man and he was given to the care of his uncles. This is the most coherent answer to the case, because of many reasons. Luis was very close to his Agraz family, proof of this are the godparents of his children that were uncles of him from the Agraz side. Also, he received inheritance from his adoptive father and wasn't discriminated for being adopted because he was also the regidor alcalde of Tecolotlán some years before the independence of Mexico. His appearence would be known by latter generations because he ordered to be protrayed by oil painting, and his descendance was the most illustrious among the Agraz family, having graduates, poets, engineers, etc. in his sons, grandsons and beyond.

Other case, of "hijo de padres no conocidos" is the next dispensa:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18412-58699-28?cc=1874591&wc…

In the first page (120) Juan de Contreras states to be "hijo de padres no conocidos" and he wanted to marry Simona Preciado. Witnesses declared they were cousins and in page 123 he then declared the truth about his parents so he was the natural son of Don Martín de Bejarano and Ana de Contreras, he got his surname because of his mother's one, apparently the same case of Luis de Agraz.

Certainly is a little bit disappointing having hijo de padres no conocidos in your ancestors because for some reason they didn't want us to know who their parents really were, when all the people in the town already knew, especially for a prominent family such as the Agraz, the case of Luis was probably the gossip of the town hahaha.

Hope this helps you, any other experience form you in this case would be really appreciated.

Enrique Agraz

Christopher,

I just found the "Información Matrimonial" for Francisco Xavier Calvillo and María Michaela Macías, which include their declarations as well as those of three witnesses who knew them well. It confirms that Francisco Xavier Calvillo was "hijo de padres no conocidos" and that the parents of María Michaela Macías were Juan de Santiago [Macías] and María Gertrudis Gómez. Notice that Francisco Xavier and María Michaela declared to be 21 and 18 years old respectively, so they were born ca. 1732 and 1735. These dates will help you in your research. The link is as follows:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11707-152264-60?cc=1410092…

BILL FIGUEROA

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Figueroa
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 11:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos]Calvillo, Macías, Ponce, Vásquez, Garcia

Christopher,

I almost missed your message because you sent it under a different subject line. It is important to use the same subject unless you really intend to change it. Anyway, I used cut-and-paste to add your comments to the thread below.

In answer to your question, I seriously doubt that you'll be able to identify the parents of Francisco Xavier Calvillo. Most of the time "hijo de padres no conocidos" indicates that the person was an adopted child and that he/she is using the surname of the adoptive parents. But don't give up, sometimes adopted children are mentioned in the final will and testament of their adoptive parents or godparents. I've seen many examples of this.

You should have better luck with the ancestors of María Michaela Macías, especially when you consider that her parents are mentioned in her marriage record, i.e. Juan de Santiago Macías and María Gertrudis Gómez, Good luck with your research !!

BILL FIGUEROA

----- Original Message -----

From: iChristopher94526@yahoo.com
To: bill_figueroa@usa.net
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 5:50 PM
Subject: Fwd: Research Digest, Vol 84, Issue 5

Wow, thank you very much Mr. Figueroa, I greatly appreciate your assistance. It helps a tremendous amount. Do you think there will ever be a way to determine his parents or do you think that may be the end of the line?

Christopher

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Figueroa
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos]Calvillo, Macías, Ponce, Vásquez, Garcia

Hello Christopher,

First of all, welcome to the group. I'm sure in this forum you'll find many people with excellent knowledge of genealogy willing to help you. Unfortunately, my research has been focused on the founders and early settlers of Aguascalientes, so I don't have all the information you're looking for. However, I did find the marriage record for Francisco Xavier Calvillo and María Michaela Macías (Matrimonios 1750-1755, Images 134-135 of 246) which mentions who their parents were. The link is

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-13033-120401-21?cc=1410092…

In this record, the parents of Francisco Xavier Calvillo are said to be unknown (hijo de padres no conocidos) which suggests that he may've been an illegitimate child. The parents of María Michaela Macías are listed as Juan de Santiago and María Gertrudis Gómez. Both Francisco Xavier and María Michaela are said to be "españoles" living in Aguascalientes at the time of their marriage.

I've identified five children for this couple: Joseph Santiago (b.1756), Juan Antonio Esteban (b.1759), María Francisca Telésfora (b.1770), Luisa Antonia (b.1772) and María Dionisia de los Dolores Calvillo (b.1775). Hope this helps.

BILL FIGUEROA

----- Original Message -----
From: iChristopher94526@yahoo.com
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 6:13 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Calvillo, Macías, Ponce, Vásquez, Garcia

Hello everyone,

My name is Christopher de Cuéllar and I'm very new to geneaology and very new to the group. I've only been doing geneaology for about a month. My father died when I was very young so I never really knew much about my ancestors. That's probably why I started becoming interested in geneaology. I'm currently in high school and am trying to accomplish as much research during the winter break as possible. Mainly, spending all my free time pulling records I can find on family search. Also, if there's anyone that could assist in occasionally translating records for me, I would really appreciate it. I have dyslexia which really hasn't been a problem for me lately, but for some reason the ancient cursive writing on marriage and baptism records gives me a problem.

I'm currently researching my ancestors the Calvillo, Macías and Ponce families from Aguascalientes and the Vásquez and Garcia families from Guadalajara, Jalisco. Right now, I'm mainly interested in Francisco Xavier Calvillo that married María Michaela Macías at El Sagrario, Aguascalientes on 24 May 1753 and their ancestors. Also, interested in Gregorio Ponce that married María Gertrudis Rangel on 6 Feb 1796 and their ancestors.

In Guadalajara, the only record I have for my Vásquez ancestor is Miguel Vasquez born 29 Sept 1896 in Guadalajara and baptised on 19 Oct 1896 at Iglesia Parroquial de Jesus, Guadalajara. On his baptism it lists his parents as Cecilio Vásquez and Flora Garcia and his paternal grandparents as Leonardo Vásquez and Susana Garcia. It lists his maternal grandparents as Sinforiano Garcia and Donaciana Vejar. I'm especially looking for information on them.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance."

Christopher de Cuéllar

Christopher:

There is a similar case of Francisco Xavier, Is Augustin Manuel Calvillo, son of "Padres no conocidos", but according to a descendant of his, was probably the illegitimate son of one of the priests surnamed Calvillo, who were very influential in this region at their time.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12048-124774-65?cc=1410092…

Lo que das fructifica. Lo que te guardas se pudre.
Miguel Beltran

Hello Christopher,

First of all, welcome to the group. I'm sure in this forum you'll find many people with excellent knowledge of genealogy willing to help you. Unfortunately, my research has been focused on the founders and early settlers of Aguascalientes, so I don't have all the information you're looking for. However, I did find the marriage record for Francisco Xavier Calvillo and María Michaela Macías (Matrimonios 1750-1755, Images 134-135 of 246) which mentions who their parents were. The link is

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-13033-120401-21?cc=1410092…

In this record, the parents of Francisco Xavier Calvillo are said to be unknown (hijo de padres no conocidos) which suggests that he may've been an illegitimate child. The parents of María Michaela Macías are listed as Juan de Santiago and María Gertrudis Gómez. Both Francisco Xavier and María Michaela are said to be "españoles" living in Aguascalientes at the time of their marriage.

I've identified five children for this couple: Joseph Santiago (b.1756), Juan Antonio Esteban (b.1759), María Francisca Telésfora (b.1770), Luisa Antonia (b.1772) and María Dionisia de los Dolores Calvillo (b.1775). Hope this helps.

BILL FIGUEROA

----- Original Message -----
From: iChristopher94526@yahoo.com
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 6:13 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Calvillo, Macías, Ponce, Vásquez, Garcia

Hello everyone,

My name is Christopher de Cuéllar and I'm very new to geneaology and very new to the group. I've only been doing geneaology for about a month. My father died when I was very young so I never really knew much about my ancestors. That's probably why I started becoming interested in geneaology. I'm currently in high school and am trying to accomplish as much research during the winter break as possible. Mainly, spending all my free time pulling records I can find on family search. Also, if there's anyone that could assist in occasionally translating records for me, I would really appreciate it. I have dyslexia which really hasn't been a problem for me lately, but for some reason the ancient cursive writing on marriage and baptism records gives me a problem.

I'm currently researching my ancestors the Calvillo, Macías and Ponce families from Aguascalientes and the Vásquez and Garcia families from Guadalajara, Jalisco. Right now, I'm mainly interested in Francisco Xavier Calvillo that married María Michaela Macías at El Sagrario, Aguascalientes on 24 May 1753 and their ancestors. Also, interested in Gregorio Ponce that married María Gertrudis Rangel on 6 Feb 1796 and their ancestors.

In Guadalajara, the only record I have for my Vásquez ancestor is Miguel Vasquez born 29 Sept 1896 in Guadalajara and baptised on 19 Oct 1896 at Iglesia Parroquial de Jesus, Guadalajara. On his baptism it lists his parents as Cecilio Vásquez and Flora Garcia and his paternal grandparents as Leonardo Vásquez and Susana Garcia. It lists his maternal grandparents as Sinforiano Garcia and Donaciana Vejar. I'm especially looking for information on them.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance."

Christopher de Cuéllar