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Ixtlahuacán del Rio, or Ystlahuacan (del rio)

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Hiya,

I just found record of ancestors from this area and wanted to ask if any of you
had any interesting information to share regarding this area. The family

Comments

Ixtlahuacán del Rio, or

Comment

Esther,

Thank very much for the information. I will investige Maximo and Silvero with this new information you provided.

Sergio Gutierrez

My maternal grandmother was named Ramona Sigala Padilla (b. 1913, Jalos) who was married to Francisco Martin Reynoso in Jalos. Ramona was the daughter of Jose Sigala Martin (born abt. 1889, Jalos) and Gonzala Padilla. Jose Sigala was the son of Jose Apolinar Sigala (b. 1858, Jalos) and Juana Martin. Apolinar was the son of Macimo (Maximo) Sigala Gomez (born abt 1832) and Susana Gutierrez. Maximo was the son of Silverio Sigala and Victoria Gomez.

I can't find where and when Maximo and Silverio were borned?

Need some help.

Thanks,

Sergio Gutierrez Martin Gutierrez Sigala

Sigala's in Jalostotitlan - Sergio Gutierrez

Comment

I hope this helps:

Maximo Sigala, aka MaximoLIGALA(MaccimoSigala, MacsimoSigala) (I believe the
name was extracted wrong.) ch. 29 June 1831, Jalostitlan, Jalisco, [C603216, Ser
#01603 (1828-1834) film 0279267], married Susana Gutierrez aka Gutierres, 20
Feb. 1857, Jalostitlan. Her parents: Santos Gutierrez and Carmen Munos.

You might want to look for Silverio Sigala with the name Ligala. and Victoria
Gomez aka Victoria Gomes.
Since you already have the children I'll just give you their names and
birthdays:

1. Apolinar Sigala Gutierrez, ch. 25 Jul 1858, Jalos
2. Ramona Sigala Gutierrez, ch. 2 Sep 1860, Jalos
3. Hirinea Sigala Gutierrez, ch. 8 Apr 1863, Jalos
4. Antonia Sigala Gutierres, ch. 13 Jun 1866, Jalos
5. Jose Febronio Lucio Sigala Gutierres, ch. 25 June 1868, Jalos
6. Paulin Sigala Gutierres, 24 Jun 1871, Jalos
7. Ciriaco Sigala Gutierrez, ch 20 Jun 1873, Jalos

-Esther Jordan Lopez

On March 2, 2010 at 12:14 AM xalos68@hotmail.com wrote:

> My maternal grandmother was named Ramona Sigala Padilla (b. 1913, Jalos) who
> was married to Francisco Martin Reynoso in Jalos. Ramona was the daughter of
> Jose Sigala Martin (born abt. 1889, Jalos) and Gonzala Padilla. Jose Sigala
> was the son of Jose Apolinar Sigala (b. 1858, Jalos) and Juana Martin.
> Apolinar was the son of Macimo (Maximo) Sigala Gomez (born abt 1832) and
> Susana Gutierrez. Maximo was the son of Silverio Sigala and Victoria Gomez.
>
> I can't find where and when Maximo and Silverio were borned?
>
> Need some help.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sergio Gutierrez Martin Gutierrez Sigala

Sigala's in Jalostotitlan - Sergio Gutierrez

Comment

Sergio,
I found a Jose Silberio Sigala, b. 20 Jul 1800, ch. 15 Aug 1800, San Matias,
Pinos, Zacatecas [Batch 6C606273 (1796-1812) Ser # 02391, film 1096062]. His
mother: Maria Merced Sigala(possibly a single mom)

I found a Maria de La Merced Sigala, b. 28 Jan. 1786, ch 5 Feb 1786,
Aguscalientes [Batch C604789, Ser # 01289 (1784-1788), film 0299447] Her
parents: Julian Sigala and Maria Micaela.

-Esther Jordan Lopez

On March 2, 2010 at 12:14 AM xalos68@hotmail.com wrote:

Ixtlahuacán del Rio, or Ystlahuacan (del rio)

Comment

Are these the ancestors you found?

Jose Saturnino Sigala, ch. 26 Feb 1797, San Felipe, Cuquio, Jalisco
[Batch602707, Ser. #00083 (1797-1801) film # 0615015] married to Maria Eustaquia
Rodriguez(aka Eustacia) in Moyahua, Zacatecas, 19 Apr 1820.

His parents: Manuel Sigala and Victoria Raygosa;

His Children: Crisanto de Jesus Sigala Rodriguez, ch. 7 Nov 1824, Ixtlahuacan
del Rio, Jalisco [Batch C602712, Ser #02153 (1818-1826) film 0628878]; Maria
Josefa Sigala Rodrigues, ch 5 apr 1826, Ixtlahuacan del Rio, Jalisco, C602712,
Ser #02637 (1818-1826) film 0628878]

MANUEL SIGALAaka Manuel Salbador, Manl. Salvadory Victoria Raygosa, aka Maria
Victoria, Maria Victoriana Raygoza-- also had the following children:

Jose Vizta. Sigala Raigosa, ch 13 Apr 1787, San Felipe, Cuquio, Jalisco [Batch
C602705, Ser #05899 (1772-1788, film # 0615013];
Maria Nicolasa Sigala Raygosa, ch 28 Sep 1790, San Felipe, Cuquio, Jalisco
[Batch C602706, Ser #00977 (1789-1796, film # 0615014];
Maria Magdalena Sigala Raygosa, ch 11 June 1792, San Felipe, Cuquio, Jalisco
[Batch C602706, Ser #01806 (1789-1796, film # 0615014];
Jph. Ricardo Ramon Sigala Raygosa, ch 2 May 1794, San Felipe, Cuquio, Jalisco
[Batch C602706, Ser #02762 (1789-1796, film # 0615014];
Maria Vicenta Sigala Raygosa, ch 20 Apr 1799, San Felipe, Cuquio, Jalisco [Batch
C602707, Ser #01240 (1797-1801, film # 0615015].

I have a couple more things but I didn't want to duplicate too much with what
you already may have.

Hope this helps. -Esther Jordan Lopez

On March 1, 2010 at 2:50 PM elysiarodriguez@hotmail.com wrote:

> Hiya,
>
> I just found record of ancestors from this area and wanted to ask if any of
> you
> had any interesting information to share regarding this area. The family
> name I am from is Sigala, Jose Saturino Sigala, born in 1798. He married
> Maria Eustaquia Rodriguez.
>
>
> Thank you for any information you could provide.
>
>
> Elysia
>
>

Ahah!

Comment

I did not have aoll that information, thank you!! I am happy to learn all that you may have, I did not research this finding so well, got distracted with another breakthrough on another line!

Thank you so much!

Elysia Rodriguez

Indigenous And Other Peoples of the Region

Forums

Genealogy Research

I would like to mention about the Indigenous Huichole Indians that inhabit the region. Because on my maternal grandparents side, my maternal grandfather has Huichole ancestry.

Comments

Indigenous people of Northern Jalisco, Southern Zacatecas

Comment

Antonio:

Some comments and answers to your questions:

The archealogical site at La Quemada is a late Classical site and has many aspects which point to it being part of the greater Toltec civilization. Thus at one point, highly civilized Mesoamerica went as far north as Zacatecas.

There is no ethnic group called Chichimeca, rather it was a term used by the Mexica (Aztecs) to generally describe the bellicose and nomadic tribes north of their Empire. The Spanish adopted the term because, as they were warned, these people were very difficult to placate. There was a 40 year war in Zacatecas, San Luis Potosi against alliances of the Chichimeca (Zacatecas, Guachichiles, etc.) before the Spanish crown decided to "buy" the peace.

Miguel Caldera never "arrived" to the area and never sailed on a ship from Spain. He was born in what later became the city of Zacatecas to a Spanish father (Pedro Caldera) and a Guachichil woman (Maria). He had a sister named Maria Cid that has lots of descendancy in the area around Colotlan and Jerez.

The correct terms for the indigenous group you are talking about are Wixarritari (what they call themselves) or Huichol (Spanish), not Huichole.

The ethnic groups present in Mezquitic at the time of Spanish arrival were Tepehuanes (Tepecanos) and perhaps Zacatecas. The Spanish brought Tlaxcaltec colonizers to the area in 1591. The Wixarritari are believed to be the descendants of the Guachichil survivors of the great Chichimeca War who retreated to the most remote mountain regions then inhabited by the Tepehuanes.

Ixtlahuacán del Rio

Forums

Genealogy Research

Hiya,

I just found record of ancestors from this area and wanted to ask if any of you
had any interesting information to share regarding this area. The family

Jews in Mexico

Forums

Genealogy Research

1. The Virtual Jewish History Tour - Mexico
Cyber encyclopedia of Jewish history and culture that covers everything from anti ...

Jewish Los Altos - Are we confusing Cryptowith Converso?

Forums

Genealogy Research

------Original Message------
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: Patty Hoyos
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros

Comments

Jewish Los Altos - Are we confusing Cryptowith Converso?

Comment

If you descend from the mendoza family you descend from a moor. Why do you think the greatest administrator in keeping the peace between catholics was from your ancestors. I believe he is in your line but I would have to check your tree to know if was so. One of the reasons was because his grandmother was a moor and he could relate to both cultures.
If you descend from the rodriguez de hijar or from alfonso IX You have moor blood
------Original Message------
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: Patty Hoyos
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish Los Altos - Are we confusing Cryptowith Converso?
Sent: Feb 28, 2010 9:16 PM

I think people need to remember there is no such thing as the "pure race". Thereis no such thing. Though there is "limpieza de sangre" I might be super whitein appearacene but have a mxture of peoples that make my ancestry. I thinklots of people say there are no whites in Mexico and then some say the whiteones are not Mexican at all. Mexico is a diversed country of natives and immigrantsjust like any American country. We are all mixed. About 3/4 of the white population inthe US have some native american or african blood. Which says something, just likein Mexico the whites have at least some native or african blood. Altenos are usually regardedas "the old white aristocracy of Western Mexico" I think thats why most of us dont wantto hear the jewish, black or native blood that one might have. Of course this doesnt mean we are 100% of converso or native blood. I have one black line and two nativeamerican lines, and some jewish lines but mostly european, this shows the diverse bac
kground I have. I might have some moorish blood but havent found any yet.
Regards,Daniel

To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

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Y-DNA has been identified

Forums

History, Culture and General Discussion

We finally received my brother's Y dna test results, this after additional testing for the SNP backbone study.

Here it is, it's R1b1b2, marker M269.

Comments

More R1b1b2 Altenos

Comment

Hello

Yes, the Casillas family descendant from Martin Casillas relative of Viceroy Mendoza is also R1b1b2 Celtic-p Frisian...the majority of families are Celtic...

R1b and Altenos ?

Comment

"Yes, the Casillas family descendant from Martin Casillas relative of Viceroy Mendoza is
also R1b1b2 Celtic-p Frisian...the majority of families are Celtic..."

With all due respect,this is a ridiculous statement. If you are talking about a group of families that is one thing, but to say that the majority of the inhabitants of Los Altos are "Celtic" is laughable.

First of all, the lable "Celtic" applies too a broad group of Ancient Peoples of who the only truly "Celtic" peoples were the Gauls of France and inhabitants of what is now Centeral Europe, these groups gave rise to the Hallstadt and La Tene Celtic "culture" that spread through out Europe. The R1b marker is called the "Atlantic Model haplotype" meaning it is most common in the Atlantic seaboard,from Spain and the British Isles, but also North Africa. There is a very recent DNA study conducted for the Discovery channel special on King Tut and the preliminary results look like Tut may also be R1b, this means that the R1b haplotype spread from North Africa as well as Iberia. R1b is associated with the Basques, their genetic kinship to the Irish and Welsh in well attested, and the Basques are pre-Indo European peoples who have nothing to do with the Celts proper. Therefore the Welsh and Irish must revisit they idea of a "Celtic" nationality ( whatever that is). Altenos of European decent reflect Spain, and Spain at the advent of the colinazation of the Americas was a very heterogenous country. Until there is a study conducted and evidence that the majority of Altenos are of a similar genetic background I would avoid painting all of us with such broad strokes.

One of the reasons that people engage in genetic research is to associate themselves with groups of ancient people, we hope that those people are great warriors or leaders, the reality we encounter may be completely different from what we hope, but we should always hold the truth above all else, not make the truth fit our agenda or as we wish to see it.

R1b and Altenos ?

Comment

My husband, who is descended from Altenos (the Albas, Cervantes, Ruis de Esparza, Rubalcabas, etc.) has no illusions about his ancestry either in Mexico or going back to Spain.

He just showed me this paragraph from one of his books about the admixture of cultures in Spain over the centuries: "Christian families with more pedigree than cash, or with a prudent respect for ability, accepted them [Jews] in marriage.. In this way the Spanish people, especially the upper classes, received a substantial infusion of Jewish blood. Ferdinand the Catholic and Torquemada the Inquisitor had Jews in their ancestry. Pope Paul IV, at war with Phillip II, called him and the Spanish the "worthless seed of the Jews and Moors".

I know that the rest of Europe looked askance at Spaniards and Portuguese as not being Europeans. Wasn't there a dust-up about allowing them into the EU?

So, it seems to me that the Spaniards are as mongrel a race as mestizos are now considered, and they always were. I totally agree with this poster's statement "we should always hold the truth above all else, not make the truth fit our agenda or as we wish to see it". Neither Spaniards in the Old World or the New World were pure anything.

Emilie

Port Orchard, WA

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gandalf3.1@netzero.com
> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:00:30 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] R1b and Altenos ?
>
> "Yes, the Casillas family descendant from Martin Casillas relative of Viceroy Mendoza is
> also R1b1b2 Celtic-p Frisian...the majority of families are Celtic..."
>
> With all due respect,this is a ridiculous statement. If you are talking about a group of families that is one thing, but to say that the majority of the inhabitants of Los Altos are "Celtic" is laughable.
>
> First of all, the lable "Celtic" applies too a broad group of Ancient Peoples of who the only truly "Celtic" peoples were the Gauls of France and inhabitants of what is now Centeral Europe, these groups gave rise to the Hallstadt and La Tene Celtic "culture" that spread through out Europe. The R1b marker is called the "Atlantic Model haplotype" meaning it is most common in the Atlantic seaboard,from Spain and the British Isles, but also North Africa. There is a very recent DNA study conducted for the Discovery channel special on King Tut and the preliminary results look like Tut may also be R1b, this means that the R1b haplotype spread from North Africa as well as Iberia. R1b is associated with the Basques, their genetic kinship to the Irish and Welsh in well attested, and the Basques are pre-Indo European peoples who have nothing to do with the Celts proper. Therefore the Welsh and Irish must revisit they idea of a "Celtic" nationality ( whatever that is). Altenos of Europ
e
> an decent reflect Spain, and Spain at the advent of the colinazation of the Americas was a very heterogenous country. Until there is a study conducted and evidence that the majority of Altenos are of a similar genetic background I would avoid painting all of us with such broad strokes.
>
> One of the reasons that people engage in genetic research is to associate themselves with groups of ancient people, we hope that those people are great warriors or leaders, the reality we encounter may be completely different from what we hope, but we should always hold the truth above all else, not make the truth fit our agenda or as we wish to see it.
>

Are we all African? Somos todos Africanos?

Comment

According to National Geographic and Spencer Wells from the Genographic
Project, everyone on the world today descends from a single male person who
lived about 60,000 to 70,000 years ago. This person, or "Scientific Adam" as
they named him, lived in eastern Africa, close to Ethiopia.

If this theory is correct, and the scientific evidence shows it is, does
this mean everyone in the world today is African? Or what does this mean to
you?

De acuerdo con National Geographic y Spencer Wells del Proyecto Genográfico,
todos los que vivimos hoy en día descendemos de un solo hombre quien vivió
entre 60,000 y 70,000 años atrás. Esta persona, o "Adán scientífico como lo
han llamado, vivió en el este de África, cerca de Etiopía.

Si esta teoría es correcta, y la evidencia científica la demuestra,
significa esto que todos en el mundo somos Africanos? O para ti qué
significa esto?

Ricardo Rodríguez Camarena
Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco

Are we all African? Somos todos Africanos?

Comment

To me it simply means the first homo sapiens "Came out of Africa" and the migration patterns are bolstered by artifacts found along the way. Here is a link to an article about that theory and another one:

http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/johanson.html#fullbio

Emilie

Port Orchard, WA

> From: rickrod.com@gmail.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:30:12 -0600
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Are we all African? Somos todos Africanos?
>
> According to National Geographic and Spencer Wells from the Genographic
> Project, everyone on the world today descends from a single male person who
> lived about 60,000 to 70,000 years ago. This person, or "Scientific Adam" as
> they named him, lived in eastern Africa, close to Ethiopia.
>
> If this theory is correct, and the scientific evidence shows it is, does
> this mean everyone in the world today is African? Or what does this mean to
> you?
>
>
>
>
> De acuerdo con National Geographic y Spencer Wells del Proyecto Genográfico,
> todos los que vivimos hoy en día descendemos de un solo hombre quien vivió
> entre 60,000 y 70,000 años atrás. Esta persona, o "Adán scientífico como lo
> han llamado, vivió en el este de África, cerca de Etiopía.
>
> Si esta teoría es correcta, y la evidencia científica la demuestra,
> significa esto que todos en el mundo somos Africanos? O para ti qué
> significa esto?
>
>
>
> Ricardo Rodríguez Camarena
> Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco
>

R1b and Altenos ?

Comment

Heres a new thing not only in Los Altos are Spanish descendants, last time I checkedthere are also Germans, French, Russians, English, Americans, Portuguese, Italiansand all sorts of other people. They probably mixed with the "alteno aristocracy there"We have to take account all the people that since the indpendence settled in Los Altosbesides the Spanish. Not saying they are in the millions but there are sure other nonSpanish surnames in Los Altos I have heard and seen.
Regards,Daniel

To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gandalf3.1@netzero.com
> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:00:30 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] R1b and Altenos ?
>
> "Yes, the Casillas family descendant from Martin Casillas relative of Viceroy Mendoza is
> also R1b1b2 Celtic-p Frisian...the majority of families are Celtic..."
>
> With all due respect,this is a ridiculous statement. If you are talking about a group of families that is one thing, but to say that the majority of the inhabitants of Los Altos are "Celtic" is laughable.
>
> First of all, the lable "Celtic" applies too a broad group of Ancient Peoples of who the only truly "Celtic" peoples were the Gauls of France and inhabitants of what is now Centeral Europe, these groups gave rise to the Hallstadt and La Tene Celtic "culture" that spread through out Europe. The R1b marker is called the "Atlantic Model haplotype" meaning it is most common in the Atlantic seaboard,from Spain and the British Isles, but also North Africa. There is a very recent DNA study conducted for the Discovery channel special on King Tut and the preliminary results look like Tut may also be R1b, this means that the R1b haplotype spread from North Africa as well as Iberia. R1b is associated with the Basques, their genetic kinship to the Irish and Welsh in well attested, and the Basques are pre-Indo European peoples who have nothing to do with the Celts proper. Therefore the Welsh and Irish must revisit they idea of a "Celtic" nationality ( whatever that is). Altenos of Euro
pe
> an decent reflect Spain, and Spain at the advent of the colinazation of the Americas was a very heterogenous country. Until there is a study conducted and evidence that the majority of Altenos are of a similar genetic background I would avoid painting all of us with such broad strokes.
>
> One of the reasons that people engage in genetic research is to associate themselves with groups of ancient people, we hope that those people are great warriors or leaders, the reality we encounter may be completely different from what we hope, but we should always hold the truth above all else, not make the truth fit our agenda or as we wish to see it.
>

R1b1b2, marker M269

Comment

Merry Belated Christmas and Happy New Year to you and your familia! I’m working on my ancestry and found you! At least my Y-DNA did :) I had myself tested way back in June of this year from Genetree and came back as #Y-DNA Haplogroup: R-M207# Subgroup: R1b1b2*-M269. On my paternal side I have Gonzalez, Guzman, Campos, Gutierrez, Alba, Cuevas, Alvarez, Reynoso, Martinez, Lujano, Aguayo, Gomez, Martin, Hernandez, Jauregui, Vasquez, Mexia, Carillo, Casillas, Sandobal....and more. Right now I am having a road block with my direct paternal, after my 4X Grandfather (Gonzalez). I’m hoping that you and I can help each other. Best Regards, Jaime Gonzalez

R1b1b2, marker M269

Comment

Was your message directed at everyone in Nuestros Ranchos, or was it directed at one person in particular?

It's not clear to whom this is addressed??

Alicia,
San Jose, Calif

________________________________
From: "gonzalez.rosa@comcast.net"
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tue, December 29, 2009 6:51:58 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] R1b1b2, marker M269

To post, send email to:
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R1b1b2 and M269

Comment

Hi Alicia,

Our sample is also R1b1b2 and M269, it is from the Navarro family which may have lived in Ocotlán Jalisco in the early 1800's but we sitll have no official paperwork to prove it. We got a 34/37 DNA match with a Macías family form Aguascalientes.

If you got tested with famiytreedna.com, you can easily post your results online and search for matches at:
ysearch.org and at http://garyfelix.tripod.com/index63.htm

You can also upload your results manually at ysearch.org and ancestry.com . I have mine in all these websites.

Warmest regards,
VN

re: Your Y-DNA has been identified

Comment

"Here it is, it's R1b1b2, marker M269..
Anyone in Nuestros Ranchos with these markers??

Alicia"

Alicia,

I have the same markers as above. Unfortunately, they are very common markers in Europe and have not helped me much in my Serros genealogy quest. My extended family is from the Northern Jalisco/Southern Zacatecas area, an area they left in ~1916. Sadly for the purpose of genealogy, the Serros/Cerros line appears to be an illegitimate line so I can only go back so far in this particular line.

I agree that the markers suggest a Basque lineage; I did not say prove a Basque lineage. Clearly, as I search the 1600 and 1700 records of Mezquitic, Jalisco and Valparaiso, Zacatecas, I find surnames that are Basque in origin. My reading sources state that the Basques (and Germans) were brought over for their knowledge in mining. One of the largest silver mines in our area was of course Bolaños. In the mid and late 1700's the mines of this town made many locals and investors very wealthy.

Y-DNA has been identified

Comment

Hi Alicia,

My brother's son's 67 marker YDNA test results placed him in - Confirmed Haplogroup: R1b1b2 - Shorthand: R-M269.

We're also waiting on my maternal grandfather's grand nephew's 67 maker YDNA test results. We have his 37 marker results that also place him in the R1b1b2 haplogroup with an exact marker match to my nephew. I'm looking forward to seeing if their 67 markers match exactly...Based on all that I have read, I think they will.

Our family has an unique situation, stemming from a male direct line common ancestor's male offspring that descend directly to my paternal (my father) and maternal (my maternal grandfather) ancestry.

My paper trail focuses primary on the Island of Madeira, Portugal, but also extends to Mainland Portugal, Spain, Scotland and England.

Pat Silva Corbera

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alicia Carrillo"
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 3:48:06 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA has been identified

We finally received my brother's Y dna test results, this after additional testing for the SNP backbone study.

Here it is, it's R1b1b2, marker M269. Probably of Basque origins for R1b, b2 most likely originated in Iran.

Anyone in Nuestros Ranchos with these markers??

Alicia,
San Jose Calif

Y-DNA has been identified

Comment

Pat,

We just submitted my husband's 67 marker test. We both come from Nochistlan Zacatecas so my suspicion is that they will be the same as my brother's test. My husband and I are related through 4 of our family lines to date and who knows, maybe more.

Alicia

________________________________
From: Pat Corbera
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 6:59:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA has been identified

Hi Alicia,

My brother's son's 67 marker YDNA test results placed him in - Confirmed Haplogroup: R1b1b2 - Shorthand: R-M269.

Our family has an unique situation, stemming from a male direct line common ancestor's male offspring that descend directly to my paternal (my father) and maternal (my maternal grandfather) ancestry.

My paper trail focuses primary on the Island of Madeira, Portugal, but also extends to Mainland Portugal, Spain, Scotland and England.

Pat Silva Corbera

We finally received my brother's Y dna test results, this after additional testing for the SNP backbone study.

Here it is, it's R1b1b2, marker M269. Probably of Basque origins for R1b, b2 most likely originated in Iran.

Anyone in Nuestros Ranchos with these markers??

Alicia,
San Jose Calif

Y-DNA has been identified

Comment

Alicia,

Another family member of the YDNA direct line common ancestor didn't match the other two that did. I'm working on trying to figure out what may have happened, since my paper trail appears to be accurate. We may never be able to figure it out...

I'm being told that it's possible that what appears on paper as a biological father, may not be...

I wasn't prepared for this happening, guess that's what makes genealogy so interesting...

With shared lines as you noted, it does make extending the lines easier when common ancestors appear. Does your paper trail link your husband and your brother with a common male ancestry? Is your husband's mtDNA being tested also?

Tino's mtDNA lines are from Nochistlan, and tested out on HVR1 and HVR2 in Haplogroup A, with 6 mutations in the 1st Segment and 10 mutations in the 2nd Segment.

Tino's paternal line, as far as I can tell we from Momax, Zacatecas area, but appear to have moved around... I'm still working on it.

Tino's YDNA 67 marker tested out as Q1a3a and positive for SNPs: M3+ and negative for SNPs: M19- M194- and M199-.
Per FTDNA the Haplogroup Q1a3a is the only lineage strictly associated with Native American populations.

To date I've not been able to locate anyone from Tino's paternal Grandmother's lineage willing to be mtDNA tested.

Pat Silva Corbera

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alicia Carrillo"
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 9:52:49 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA has been identified

Pat,

Alicia

Native American?

Comment

for Pat Corbera:

Hi Pat:

You say: " the Haplogroup Q1a3a is the only lineage associated with Native
America populations"

I had my MtDNA analyzed and it came back as "A2" Native American. My mother
was Cerros Gonzalez, from Jerez, Zacatecas. I found two other matches for
her MtDNA and both are from Michoacan, oddly enough, they are "Gonzalez
Mendoza" wich are considered Spanish . Somewhere along the line they must
have had a Mexican Native American in their ancestry.

John Gonzalez
Wildomar, CA.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Corbera"
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 23:49
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA has been identified

> Alicia,
>
> Another family member of the YDNA direct line common ancestor didn't match
> the other two that did. I'm working on trying to figure out what may have
> happened, since my paper trail appears to be accurate. We may never be
> able to figure it out...
>
> I'm being told that it's possible that what appears on paper as a
> biological father, may not be...
>
> I wasn't prepared for this happening, guess that's what makes genealogy so
> interesting...
>
> With shared lines as you noted, it does make extending the lines easier
> when common ancestors appear. Does your paper trail link your husband and
> your brother with a common male ancestry? Is your husband's mtDNA being
> tested also?
>
> Tino's mtDNA lines are from Nochistlan, and tested out on HVR1 and HVR2
> in Haplogroup A, with 6 mutations in the 1st Segment and 10 mutations in
> the 2nd Segment.
>
> Tino's paternal line, as far as I can tell we from Momax, Zacatecas area,
> but appear to have moved around... I'm still working on it.
>
> Tino's YDNA 67 marker tested out as Q1a3a and positive for SNPs: M3+ and
> negative for SNPs: M19- M194- and M199-.
> Per FTDNA the Haplogroup Q1a3a is the only lineage strictly associated
> with Native American populations.
>
> To date I've not been able to locate anyone from Tino's paternal
> Grandmother's lineage willing to be mtDNA tested.
>
>
>
>

Native American?

Comment

John,

I beleive the reference was made for the YDNA Haplogroup.

My mother-in-law is Haplogroup A, which is also Native American. She and her family were from Nochistlan, Zacatecas.

Pat

Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Gonzalez" <1gnzlz@verizon.net>
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 10:47:34 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Native American?

for Pat Corbera:

Hi Pat:

You say: " the Haplogroup Q1a3a is the only lineage associated with Native
America populations"

John Gonzalez
Wildomar, CA.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Corbera"
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 23:49
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA has been identified

Y-DNA has been identified

Comment

Hello Pat and Alicia,

I'm R1B1. But just have 12 marker YDNA. I know my ancestry came from Spain. But I having some difficulty in tracing any sort of connection into Mexico and beyond. If by any chance you need any additional assistance i will be more than glad to extend a helping hand,It's good to know there are other RB1 at Nuestros Ranchos..

Robert Ramirez
EP, Texas

________________________________
From: Pat Corbera
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:59:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA has been identified

Hi Alicia,

My brother's son's 67 marker YDNA test results placed him in - Confirmed Haplogroup: R1b1b2 - Shorthand: R-M269.

Our family has an unique situation, stemming from a male direct line common ancestor's male offspring that descend directly to my paternal (my father) and maternal (my maternal grandfather) ancestry.

My paper trail focuses primary on the Island of Madeira, Portugal, but also extends to Mainland Portugal, Spain, Scotland and England.

Pat Silva Corbera

We finally received my brother's Y dna test results, this after additional testing for the SNP backbone study.

Here it is, it's R1b1b2, marker M269. Probably of Basque origins for R1b, b2 most likely originated in Iran.

Anyone in Nuestros Ranchos with these markers??

Alicia,
San Jose Calif

Y-DNA has been identified

Comment

Thank You Robert for offering to help...
Pat

Y-DNA has been identified

Comment

My father's ydna results are R1b1b2a1a, abbreviated to R-U106. Its the
> Western Atlantic Modal Haplogroup. I've been told that he is unlikely of
> Basque origin, although our family story is that we come from San
> Sebastian. Certainly, his matches have yet to suggest a Basque origin.

>
> To post, send email to:
> general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>
> To change your subscription, log on to:
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>

Connection

Forums

Genealogy Research

To:

Rick Rodriguez

Here's the connection of Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo and Diego Gonzalez de Hermosillo.

Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo married to Maria Munoz Montonia, they had:

Gonzales de Hermosillo

Forums

Genealogy Research

To:

Rick Rodriguez

Correction to my last post on the Gonzalez de Hermosillo/Gonzalez Rubio.

Comments

Gonzales de Hermosillo

Comment

Hi John, thanks for the info. Can you tell me how Diego Gonzalez de
Hermosillo connects to Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo (married to María Muñoz)?

Thanks John,

Saludos,
[Rick Rodriguez]

To Aaron & other R1b males on this forum

Forums

Genealogy Research

Hi Aaron, you seem to know a lot about the R1b Haplogroup and have probably done a lot more research on the topic than me, so can you or any other member here help me decipher this???

Comments

genetic markers and the confusion it causes

Comment

Claudia, when we add the DNA factor and get match's from other countries it is startling. My mothers paternal line, Gutierrez, that I can document back to 1650 or so in Michoacan before moving to Jalisco in 1760 came back haplogroup N. I have 12 perfect matchs.. all from Finland. The odd part to me is that the subgroup N3 is found only in Sevilla, Spain and is thought to have been brought there by the party accompanying Moctezumas/Cortes children/grandchildren who were sent back to Spain to be educated. So, does that make part of the Aztec line from Finland originally? It is fun to speculate but sometimes a bit of knowledge can really muddy the waters but it is a part of who we are today.

Linda in Marietta, Georgia

________________________________
From: "claudiacasillas@gmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sun, February 28, 2010 12:10:25 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] To Aaron & other R1b males on this forum

Hi Aaron, you seem to know a lot about the R1b Haplogroup and have probably done a lot more research on the topic than me, so can you or any other member here help me decipher this???

[by the way, my son is also a Casillas, descendant of the Casillas's in VDG, the Tepozanes line. I have gone as far as Juan Manuel Casillas y Cabrera married to Juana Maria Valdivia, but need further links to connect to El Alarife]...

Anyway, back to my DNA dilemma. Can you tell me what/where the following DNA group originated, or give me further info/links to research? I am interested in learning more about geographical locations, because we have a perfect match in Poland, and I'm wondering how that happened...thanks!

Male Y-DNA Haplotree: R1b1b2a1b surname: Reynoso (Zacatecas line)

genetic markers and the confusion it causes

Comment

It only causes confusion when it is not understood how Y-DNA and mtDNA work.
Your example is an example of a grave misunderstanding of Y-DNA and mtDNA.

On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 5:40 AM, Erlinda Castanon-Long <
longsjourney@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Claudia, when we add the DNA factor and get match's from other countries it
> is startling. My mothers paternal line, Gutierrez, that I can document back
> to 1650 or so in Michoacan before moving to Jalisco in 1760 came back
> haplogroup N. I have 12 perfect matchs.. all from Finland. The odd part to
> me is that the subgroup N3 is found only in Sevilla, Spain and is thought to
> have been brought there by the party accompanying Moctezumas/Cortes
> children/grandchildren who were sent back to Spain to be educated. So, does
> that make part of the Aztec line from Finland originally? It is fun to
> speculate but sometimes a bit of knowledge can really muddy the waters but
> it is a part of who we are today.
>
> Linda in Marietta, Georgia
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "claudiacasillas@gmail.com"
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Sun, February 28, 2010 12:10:25 AM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] To Aaron & other R1b males on this forum
>
> Hi Aaron, you seem to know a lot about the R1b Haplogroup and have probably
> done a lot more research on the topic than me, so can you or any other
> member here help me decipher this???
>
> [by the way, my son is also a Casillas, descendant of the Casillas's in
> VDG, the Tepozanes line. I have gone as far as Juan Manuel Casillas y
> Cabrera married to Juana Maria Valdivia, but need further links to connect
> to El Alarife]...
>
> Anyway, back to my DNA dilemma. Can you tell me what/where the following
> DNA group originated, or give me further info/links to research? I am
> interested in learning more about geographical locations, because we have a
> perfect match in Poland, and I'm wondering how that happened...thanks!
>
> Male Y-DNA Haplotree: R1b1b2a1b surname: Reynoso (Zacatecas line)
>

genetic markers and the confusion it causes

Comment

Armando

I'm always ready to learn, can you explain my error? This was the Haplo Group N for my Mothers brother Luis Gutierrez through the familytree site and I also submitted it to the Gary Felix site. My MTDNA was haplogroup A, Native American.

Linda in Marietta

________________________________
From: Armando
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sun, February 28, 2010 9:43:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] genetic markers and the confusion it causes

It only causes confusion when it is not understood how Y-DNA and mtDNA work.
Your example is an example of a grave misunderstanding of Y-DNA and mtDNA.

On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 5:40 AM, Erlinda Castanon-Long <
longsjourney@yahoo.com> wrote:

genetic markers and the confusion it causes

Comment

Hello Linda and Angelina,

I am not an expert, but there are basics to this we should all understand.
The error was in assuming that because a certain population has a higher
proportion of a marker they must have come from the larger population. A
small population in one area and a large population in another area can
exist for many reasons. The Sevilla connection, most likely, goes back much
further in time, to Sibera. I did a search and I found a post by Gary Felix
that said the following -

> when he states "we (the authors of the paper which appeared in MBE)
> believed that the single N individual carried an exceedingly rare, but
> legitimate founding lineage of
> Native Americans (from Siberia)."
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2009-01/123…

At another website I also found this -

"The most frequent subclade N3, arose probably in the region of present day
China, and subsequently experienced serial bottlenecks in Siberia and
secondary expansions in eastern Europe."
http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v15/n2/abs/5201748a.html

Wikipedia has this info:

Haplogroup N has a wide geographic distribution throughout Eurasia, from
Norway to China. Its highest frequency occurs among the
Finnicand
Baltic peoples of northern and eastern
Europe, the Ob-Ugric
and Northern
Samoyedic peoples of
western Siberia, and the Siberian
Turkic-speaking
Yakuts .

The spread of haplogroup N reveals traces of
bottlenecksand
founder
effects . Haplogroup N did not
spread through continuous population growth, but rather through several
founding effects. Some Siberian populations have only a few surviving Y-DNA
lineages as a mark of massive bottleneck
effect.[3]

After Haplogroup N arose in Southeast Asia, males carrying the marker moved
to the region of North China and thence to the Altai region (South Siberia).
The mutations that define the subclade N1c (old name N3) occurred either in
Siberia or in Northwest China. The age of Haplogroup N1c is approximately
14,000 years.

Haplogroup N1b is a significantly younger subclade, perhaps only 6,000 to
8,000 years old. Its first appearance is either in Eastern Europe or in
Siberia; the question of its exact origin is still not solved.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_N_%28Y-DNA%29#Distribution

How many markers did you test for Linda? With a 12 marker match you only
have 50% probability of having a common ancestor in the past 14 generations
but a 95% probability within the last 62 generations, about 2,5000 years
ago. There is no telling how far back your relation to the Finnish is.
Again, as far as the group of people that ended up in Sevilla, they are most
likely to be from the Siberian to Native American line.

Time to most recent ancestor explanation -
http://blairdna.com/dna101.html#What%20Does%20it%20Mean

Claudia,
I tried to find info on yours but it still shows up as un-defined. Wikipedia
shows it to branch off of R1b1b2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b_%28Y-DNA%29#R1b1b2

You can find the frequency of R1b1b2 at
http://www.iberianroots.com/Statistics/spain.html

On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Erlinda Castanon-Long <
longsjourney@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Armando
>
> I'm always ready to learn, can you explain my error? This was the Haplo
> Group N for my Mothers brother Luis Gutierrez through the familytree site
> and I also submitted it to the Gary Felix site. My MTDNA was haplogroup A,
> Native American.
>
> Linda in Marietta
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Armando
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Sun, February 28, 2010 9:43:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] genetic markers and the confusion it causes
>
> It only causes confusion when it is not understood how Y-DNA and mtDNA
> work.
> Your example is an example of a grave misunderstanding of Y-DNA and mtDNA.
>
> On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 5:40 AM, Erlinda Castanon-Long <
> longsjourney@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Claudia, when we add the DNA factor and get match's from other countries
> it
> > is startling. My mothers paternal line, Gutierrez, that I can document
> back
> > to 1650 or so in Michoacan before moving to Jalisco in 1760 came back
> > haplogroup N. I have 12 perfect matchs.. all from Finland. The odd part
> to
> > me is that the subgroup N3 is found only in Sevilla, Spain and is thought
> to
> > have been brought there by the party accompanying Moctezumas/Cortes
> > children/grandchildren who were sent back to Spain to be educated. So,
> does
> > that make part of the Aztec line from Finland originally? It is fun to
> > speculate but sometimes a bit of knowledge can really muddy the waters
> but
> > it is a part of who we are today.
> >
> > Linda in Marietta, Georgia
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: "claudiacasillas@gmail.com"
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > Sent: Sun, February 28, 2010 12:10:25 AM
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] To Aaron & other R1b males on this forum
> >
> > Hi Aaron, you seem to know a lot about the R1b Haplogroup and have
> probably
> > done a lot more research on the topic than me, so can you or any other
> > member here help me decipher this???
> >
> > [by the way, my son is also a Casillas, descendant of the Casillas's in
> > VDG, the Tepozanes line. I have gone as far as Juan Manuel Casillas y
> > Cabrera married to Juana Maria Valdivia, but need further links to
> connect
> > to El Alarife]...
> >
> > Anyway, back to my DNA dilemma. Can you tell me what/where the following
> > DNA group originated, or give me further info/links to research? I am
> > interested in learning more about geographical locations, because we have
> a
> > perfect match in Poland, and I'm wondering how that happened...thanks!
> >
> > Male Y-DNA Haplotree: R1b1b2a1b surname: Reynoso (Zacatecas line)
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

genetic markers and the confusion it causes

Comment

thank you Armando.. you are thorough, I appreciate that.

I only had a 12 marker done since none of the matchs were more than 12 marker. If someone else matches and have done a 24 marker then I will have it done. My families love the info but don't want to pay for tests so they come from my pocket. There are still a couple of MTDNA I would like to have done but it will have to wait.

thank you again, Linda

________________________________
From: Armando
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sun, February 28, 2010 2:41:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] genetic markers and the confusion it causes

Hello Linda and Angelina,

At another website I also found this -

Wikipedia has this info:

Time to most recent ancestor explanation -
http://blairdna.com/dna101.html#What%20Does%20it%20Mean

Claudia,
I tried to find info on yours but it still shows up as un-defined. Wikipedia
shows it to branch off of R1b1b2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b_%28Y-DNA%29#R1b1b2

You can find the frequency of R1b1b2 at
http://www.iberianroots.com/Statistics/spain.html

On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Erlinda Castanon-Long <
longsjourney@yahoo.com> wrote:

genetic markers and the confusion it causes

Comment

Armando,

I confess that when my husband starts to talk about DNA I fade out. However,
I see that it is becoming a useful tool in genealogy so I'd like to get a
handle on it.
Correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm understanding correctly Y-DNA can only be
handed down from father to son. So, the assumption that Claudia made about
Aztecs having come from Finland cannot be supported by DNA since the
Moctezuma lineage she is referring to were the children of Moctezuma's
Daughter and Cortez. It would have been Cortez's Y-DNA that was passed down
through the generations since women don't carry the Y-chromosome.

Is the 12 marker test enough to really help with genealogy or should we be
looking at the more extensive testing? I'd ask my husband but ..... then
he'd realize I haven't really been listening ;)

-Angelina-

genetic markers and the confusion it causes

Comment

Angelina, it was not the children of Cortes/Moxtezuma but the people who went with them. This is what I was told by Gary Felix.. again, not Cortez/Moctezuma but their retinue..

Linda not Claudia

________________________________
From: Angelina Markle
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sun, February 28, 2010 2:18:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] genetic markers and the confusion it causes

Armando,

I confess that when my husband starts to talk about DNA I fade out. However, I see that it is becoming a useful tool in genealogy so I'd like to get a handle on it.
Correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm understanding correctly Y-DNA can only be handed down from father to son. So, the assumption that Claudia made about Aztecs having come from Finland cannot be supported by DNA since the Moctezuma lineage she is referring to were the children of Moctezuma's Daughter and Cortez. It would have been Cortez's Y-DNA that was passed down through the generations since women don't carry the Y-chromosome.

Is the 12 marker test enough to really help with genealogy or should we be looking at the more extensive testing? I'd ask my husband but ..... then he'd realize I haven't really been listening ;)

-Angelina-

Gonzalez de Hermosillo y Gonzalez Rubio

Forums

Genealogy Research

Hola Nuestros Ranchos,

Disculpen mi ignorancia, pero alguien podría decirme si las familias
Gonzalez de Hermosillo y Gonzalez Rubio en algún punto descienden de una
misma persona o sin son

General Digest, Vol 49, Issue 8

Forums

History, Culture and General Discussion

Hello

Yes we are talking about the founding Altenos (non meso americans) of that region as a majority were Western Europeans paternally.

Historic Hacienda San Nicolas for sale cool info!

Forums

History, Culture and General Discussion

While surfing the web for histroy on Lagos de Moreno I found a website for real estate in Lagos de Moreno

Comments

Historic Hacienda San

Comment

Gloria Casillas

Hola daniel, se que mi comentario no tiene nada que ver con lo que escribiste anteriormente pero necesito preguntarte algo, hace poco comentaste en el "Parte de mi familia los Casillas", que tenias la sospecha de que Juana de ornelas fuera hija de Geronimo de Ornellas y Hurtado de Mendoza y su esposa Maria Rubio. yo encontre una Juana de Ornelas Perez nacida en teocaltiche en 1676 hija de Jose de Ornelas y Angelina Perez,tambien encontre a la Juana que mencionas , mi pregunta es: ya que has investigado algo de esta linea, me podrias dar una pista de donde buscar algo referente a esta familia ya que, mi amigo Ruben Casillas me consiguio el acta de matrimonio de Francisco Casillas con Dorotea Ephigenia hijo de Juana de Ornelas y padre desconocidos, y despues de ahi ya no he podido avanzar.No se si cuentes con esta acta o quieras que te la envie.Saludos y Gracias

Retonos de Espana en la Nveva Galicia

Forums

History, Culture and General Discussion

If someone is interested we have a copy of Mariano Gonzalez-Leal’s, Retonos de Espana en la Nveva Galicia. Tomo I.

Comments

Retonos de Espana en la Nveva Galicia

Comment

I'm In..... how can I make the payment?

--------------------------------------------------
From:
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 11:31 AM
To:
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retonos de Espana en la Nveva Galicia

> If someone is interested we have a copy of Mariano Gonzalez-Leal’s,
> Retonos de Espana en la Nveva Galicia. Tomo I. Los Altos de Jalisco;
> ensayo de historia, antropologia y sociologia de una region de Mejico.
> The price of the book is $160.00 and an email will reserve the book.
>
> Carlos Yturralde
> Hispanic Heritage Project
>

Retonos de Espana en la Nveva Galicia

Comment

Carlos, una pregunta. Se trata de un Tomo I nuevo, no es cierto? No el que
ya conocemos, publicado por 1987 y reimpreso varias veces. Otra cosa,
estamos hablando de $160.00 en pesos mexicanos, no es cierto?

Saludos,
Bill Figueroa

Retonos de Espana en la Nveva Galicia

Comment

Creo que no puede tratarse del nuevo tomo I, mas bien debe ser el de 1982, reimpreso, como menciona Bill.

Trascribo a continuacion un e-mail recibido el 25 de septiembre de 2009 de don Mariano Gonzalez Leal

"Estimado señor: Hoy entregué a prensa el original del último volumen, séptimo, de la obra. Está en prensa en la Secretaría de Cultura del Gobierno de Jalisco, quien distribuirá la edición cuando está concluida. Supongo no podrá ser antes del año próximo, porque son más de siete mil páginas distribuidas en 7 tomos.
Un afectuoso saludo,
Mariano González-Leal"

Y transcribo a continuacion un e-mail que recibi HOY del que creo es el mas cercano a Mariano Gonzalez-Leal de los miembros de nuestros ranchos, Ruben Casillas,

"Miguel, el tomo # 1 es el que me enseño Don Mariano, es mucho mas grande que el tomo uno original pero a Don mariano se lo entregaron para que diera el visto bueno para su impreción, el Gobierno del estado de Jalisco los pondrá a la venta, en este año saldrán todos, yo les comunicaré cuando esten listos para su venta"

Miguel Beltran

Book: Retonos de Espana en la Nveva Galicia

Comment

Bill Figueroa and Carlos.

I bought "Retoños..." 1985 edition, in Teocaltiche about a year and a
half ago. I don't remember the exact amount I paid for it but I do recall
that it was under $ 20 (U.S.)

$160 Mexican pesos sounds about right.

Saludos a todos.
John Gonzalez
Wildomar, CA.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Figueroa"
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 11:08
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retonos de Espana en la Nveva Galicia

> Carlos, una pregunta. Se trata de un Tomo I nuevo, no es cierto? No el
> que ya conocemos, publicado por 1987 y reimpreso varias veces. Otra cosa,
> estamos hablando de $160.00 en pesos mexicanos, no es cierto?
>
> Saludos,
> Bill Figueroa

Retonos de Espana en la Nveva Galicia

Comment

Hola Bill,

El libro es el de 1982 y el preciso fue en dollares.

Carlos Yturralde
---- Bill Figueroa wrote:
> Carlos, una pregunta. Se trata de un Tomo I nuevo, no es cierto? No el que
> ya conocemos, publicado por 1987 y reimpreso varias veces. Otra cosa,
> estamos hablando de $160.00 en pesos mexicanos, no es cierto?
>
> Saludos,
> Bill Figueroa
>
>

Retonos de Espana en la Nveva Galicia

Comment

Cuando los libros esten a la venta yo te avisaré.

Ruben Casillas M.

--- El jue 25-feb-10, Paco Romo escribió:

De:: Paco Romo
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retonos de Espana en la Nveva Galicia
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org, cyturralde@cox.net
Fecha: jueves, 25 de febrero de 2010, 12:53

I'm In..... how can I make the payment?

--------------------------------------------------
From:
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 11:31 AM
To:
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retonos de Espana en la Nveva Galicia

> If someone is interested we have a copy of Mariano Gonzalez-Leal’s, Retonos de Espana en la Nveva Galicia. Tomo I. Los Altos de Jalisco; ensayo de historia, antropologia y sociologia de una region de Mejico. The price of the book is $160.00 and an email will reserve the book.
>
> Carlos Yturralde
> Hispanic Heritage Project
>

Advice Needed: Adoption Parents

Forums

History, Culture and General Discussion

Hi Everyone,

Occasionally I receive requests from people to find lost relatives.

Comments

Giving up the position

Comment

Dear Josef,
I hope you won't be upset with me about this but I want to quit my
position. Can you find someone else? I'm going to try to do other
things and want to be unencumbered by any responsibility. I hope I
didn't offend you when I teased you about being a bad mailman...I
surely didn't mean to but I noticed that you didn't respond and
haven't responded since the day you asked for my address to send me
the lovely mint tea. I did send a nice e-card in thanks to you and
Figan. Let me know. Memarge:)

Giving up the position

Comment

You have the wrong "Joseph"

Jose Carlos de Leon

EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

> From: teacozygran@kc.rr.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 01:07:11 -0600
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Giving up the position
>
> Dear Josef,
> I hope you won't be upset with me about this but I want to quit my
> position. Can you find someone else? I'm going to try to do other
> things and want to be unencumbered by any responsibility. I hope I
> didn't offend you when I teased you about being a bad mailman...I
> surely didn't mean to but I noticed that you didn't respond and
> haven't responded since the day you asked for my address to send me
> the lovely mint tea. I did send a nice e-card in thanks to you and
> Figan. Let me know. Memarge:)
>

Giving up the position

Comment

Nope, it was to Josef Puentes but I inadvertently sent it to the
general post. :)

On Feb 23, 2010, at 1:25 AM, Jose Carlos de Leon wrote:

You have the wrong "Joseph"

Jose Carlos de Leon

EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

Advice Needed: Adoption Parents

Comment

How about telephoning/e-mailing San Diego County for her own birth certificate/

It's a start in the right direction.

Jose Carlos de Leon

EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:23:44 -0500
> From: makas@nc.rr.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Advice Needed: Adoption Parents
>
>
> >
>

Advice Needed: Adoption Parents

Comment

When there is a legal adoption where all rights are surrendered, there is a
new birth certificate issued with the adoptive parents names. The original
birth information is then sealed

and can only be revealed by mutual consent or court order. Without mutual
consent, you'll need a Superior Court hearing in the court holding the
adoption records. Even if you cite medical

reasons for knowing , you may only get age, race, and other non identifying
information.

I've worked on several birth parents searches in the past and am currently
working on three.

Eric Edgar

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 6:16 PM, Jose Carlos de Leon
wrote:

>
> How about telephoning/e-mailing San Diego County for her own birth
> certificate/
>
>
>
> It's a start in the right direction.
>
> Jose Carlos de Leon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> Join me
>
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:23:44 -0500
> > From: makas@nc.rr.com
> > To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Advice Needed: Adoption Parents
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>

Advice Needed: Adoption Parents

Comment

Hi Joseph,

We may start developing a search-method outline of sorts by using the person you mention as representative case, and listing/tracking the process used in that case.

I have had some successes in this type of circumstances and, coincidentally, also live in San Diego.

Therefore. Instead of starting with a blind telephonic game of roulete, if you can provide all known information about the interested adoptee (her birth name, date of birth, any aditional known information about birth parents (and siblings?), date and place of adoption, names of adoptive parents, and anything else that may be known, --- and I'll be glad to see what I can do and, with the permission of the adoptee, keep you informed.

Saludos,

Efrain Conrique
San Diego, California

-----Original Message-----
>From: Joseph Puentes Sent: Feb 22, 2010 4:23 PM
>To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Advice Needed: Adoption Parents
>
>
>Hi Everyone,
>
>Occasionally I receive requests from people to find lost relatives. The
>people that move me the most are those that are searching for a parent
>that gave them up for adoption.
>
>Can any of you share some of your genealogy searching skills in advising
>how a person would hunt for their birth parents?
>
>The person who provoked my latest interest said she knew her birth
>mother was a Maria Rodriguez and grandmother named Ramona and that she
>had been born in San Diego. I could only advise her get a good long
>distance calling plan and call ALL of the Rodriguez in San Diego in
>hopes of finding someone that knew of a Maria with a mother named Ramona.
>
>What else would be good advice to share?
>
>IF Anyone would like to work on a file that would gather several
>different techniques for searching for living relatives that would be
>great since I have come across many seeking not their genealogy but
>rather their missing relatives.
>
>joseph
>
>======================
>
>Joseph Puentes
>NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
>http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
>http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
>http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
>http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
>http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
>http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
>Genealogy)
>
>

Advice Needed: Adoption Parents

Comment

Joseph,

My younger sister, who was adopted out did just what you advised. She
called all the "Luna's" at a certain city, and identified herself as the
adopted out daughter of my mother.

As it so happened, I was visiting an uncle and my uncle said, "yes, that's
my sister" - we all knew about her, but didn't know her whereabouts. I got
to talk to her, and to make a long story short, today, we enjoy a wonderful
sibling relationship.

Now here's the interesting part. It turns out that her own adopted father
was her natural father. Apparently my mom was willing to take this secret
to her grave. Her adopted parents had children later, after she was
adopted, and my sister was able to confirm she was indeed their half sibling via
DNA. My sister was the apple of her father's eye....it all made sense to
her.

Isn't truth better than fiction?

Advice Needed: Adoption Parents

Comment

Joseph,

The California birth indexes at Vitalsearch are sometimes helpful.

http://www.vitalsearch-ca.com/

Zabasearch is a good tool for finding living people

http://www.zabasearch.com/

The best place to start is to fill out a mutual consent form with the
California Social Services Dept. If the birth mother is also looking they
will match you.

Here is page link with the official information

http://www.dss.cahwnet.gov/cfsweb/PG1314.htm

I know this can work because we have been re-united with a sister that my
mother gave up to adoption then found 50 years later.

Eric Robledo Edgar

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 4:23 PM, Joseph Puentes wrote:

>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Occasionally I receive requests from people to find lost relatives. The
> people that move me the most are those that are searching for a parent that
> gave them up for adoption.
>
> Can any of you share some of your genealogy searching skills in advising
> how a person would hunt for their birth parents?
>
> The person who provoked my latest interest said she knew her birth mother
> was a Maria Rodriguez and grandmother named Ramona and that she had been
> born in San Diego. I could only advise her get a good long distance calling
> plan and call ALL of the Rodriguez in San Diego in hopes of finding someone
> that knew of a Maria with a mother named Ramona.
>
> What else would be good advice to share?
>
> IF Anyone would like to work on a file that would gather several different
> techniques for searching for living relatives that would be great since I
> have come across many seeking not their genealogy but rather their missing
> relatives.
>
> joseph
>
> ======================
>
> Joseph Puentes
> NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
> http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
> http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
> http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
> http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
> http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
> http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
> Genealogy)
>
>

Villalpando = Soto

Forums

Genealogy Research

I am researching my maternal 5th great grandparents, Juan Manuel de Villalpando married to Gertrudis de Soto, on 20 Feb 1757 in Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico.

Comments

Villalpando = Soto

Comment

My villalpando branch has a jose manuel de villalpando married to a josefa beatriz rodriguez bajo ponce married in nochistlan zacatecas. This family branched off to jalos and to Taos new mexico
------Original Message------
From: paul.gomez@verizon.net
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Villalpando = Soto
Sent: Feb 21, 2010 11:26 AM

I am researching my maternal 5th great grandparents, Juan Manuel de Villalpando married to Gertrudis de Soto, on 20 Feb 1757 in Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico. They ahd 5 children: Maria Antonia, Maria Alvina, Jose Gregorio, Pedro Joseph, and Luciano Villalpando.

I am seeking the birth/baptism dates for Juan Manuel de Villalpando and Gertrudis de Soto.

Any help would be appreciated.

Villalpando = Soto

Comment

Hi!

I am also reseaching my Soto lineage.......but I have only documented
back as far as the 1864 marriage of my great-grandparents Anastacio
Soto and Ma. Dolores Gonzalez in Matamoros, Tamps., Mx. I have some
other leads but they are also in Tamaulipas and I have not had a
chance to research the film. My Soto line went from Matamoros, MX to
Brownsville, TX and then on to the Texas Gulf Coast and Victoria, TX
where my mom was born in 1919.

Prof. Israel Cavazos from Monterrey, Mx once told me the Soto line
came from San Luis, Potosi. I am sure those were the "early" lines
which I have not reached yet.

I will be happy to share any information with you when I find it.
Please keep in touch.

Thanks!

Josie Trevino Trevino
Houston, TX

On Feb 21, 2010, at 1:26 PM, paul.gomez@verizon.net wrote:

> I am researching my maternal 5th great grandparents, Juan Manuel de
> Villalpando married to Gertrudis de Soto, on 20 Feb 1757 in
> Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico. They ahd 5 children: Maria Antonia,
> Maria Alvina, Jose Gregorio, Pedro Joseph, and Luciano Villalpando.
>
> I am seeking the birth/baptism dates for Juan Manuel de Villalpando
> and Gertrudis de Soto.
>

Mixture Of Clans: MOVE to General Please

Forums

History, Culture and General Discussion

I'm not sure how much longer the group will continue with the "Mixture
of Clans" topic but why not lets move it over to the General List (note:
for those of you new to the group that means that

Looking for a Volunteer: 1 hour per week

Forums

History, Culture and General Discussion

The 1 hour per week is an average. Might be a little more some weeks a
little less others. The job is to create folders for me when new members
join the group.

Spanish Inquisition and Conversos

Forums

Genealogy Research

Some interesting info:

http://www.pbs.org/inquisition/pdf/ConversosandtheSpanishInquisition.pdf

By David M.

Announce Digest, Vol 48, Issue 4

Forums

Announcements and Events

I hope to attend. Getting details now.

Diego Sermeño

Forums

Genealogy Research

Alguno de ustedes tiene informacion acerca de Diego Zermeño(Sermeño)quien fue depositario del ayuntaminto de Santa Maria de Los Lagos, en 1683 *, mismo tiempo en que fueron regidores Juan Vazquez de

Tlaxcalan Census of 1591

Forums

Genealogy Research

Angelina Markle has generously donated her time and talent to transcribe and transliterate the census of the 500 Tlaxcalan families that went to Jalisco, Zacatecas and San Luis Potosi in 1591.

Comments

Tlaxcalan Census of 1591

Comment

Thank you for all of your time and effort for working on this census.

If you are a descendant of the Conquistadores and the Indian women, you may want to start comparing the information on this census to the following lists on Nancy Lopez's Genealogy Links. See: cybergata.com/roots/links.htm. Click on the following lists:
My Early New Mexican Ancestors
Santa Fe's First Families
New Mexico Settlers 1598-1680

Many of the early New Mexico settlers returned to Mexico when don Juan de Onate ordered that one foot be cut off of the Acoma Indian captives.

Also start looking at early records after 1591 of many of the northern states of Mexico including Texas and New Mexico.

For more information about the Tlaxcalans after 1591, see my Tlaxcalan webpage: www.lucerito.net/Tlascateca.htm. [sorry about the misspelling but if I spell Tlascalteca correctly you will not be linked]

Stanley A Lucero
Madera, California

To Angelina Markle

Comment

Angelina Markle.

Thank you very much for sharing the results of your effort and time

Muchas gracias por compartirnos el resultado de tu esfuerzo y tiempo .

Miguel Beltran

grandfather ventura

Forums

Genealogy Research

This is my first time using this site. BuenaVentura Rojas was born in Cueva Grande Valle de Valpariso Zacatecas. Ventura was born about 1880 and married Leandra Betancourt on 1902.

Research Digest, Vol 49, Issue 15

Forums

Genealogy Research

I will be presenting at the Milpitas conference on March 6 at the Sheraton Hotel. Will you be there?

Comments

Northern California March conference

Comment

Stanley,

We look forward to meeting you and to your presentation next Month.

I do plan on being there, see you real soon!!

Alicia,

San Jose,
Calif

________________________________
From: "stanley.lucero@comcast.net"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Mon, February 15, 2010 3:16:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Research Digest, Vol 49, Issue 15

I will be presenting at the Milpitas conference on March 6 at the Sheraton Hotel. Will you be there?

Juan Brito and Antonia Ursula Duran

Forums

Genealogy Research

Jose de Leon Brito was a "vecino of Zacatecas and a retail merchant." After the death of his wife, Antonia Ursula Duran, and on the request of his mother in law Polonia, on 3 May 1679 he left money t

Comments

Juan Brito and Antonia Ursula Duran

Comment

Stanley,

Your Duran ancestors ring a bell and while I don't have the records in hand, I have run across some of these names in my research of Nochistlan, Zacatecas. I don't know if they're the same Duranes, but I have seen Polonia Duran and Antonia Duran. I'm sure there are many in different municipalities of Zacatecas. I'll look in my records.

Alicia,
San Jose, Calif

________________________________
From: "stanley.lucero@comcast.net"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sat, February 6, 2010 1:02:36 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Juan Brito and Antonia Ursula Duran

Jose de Leon Brito was a "vecino of Zacatecas and a retail merchant." After the death of his wife, Antonia Ursula Duran, and on the request of his mother in law Polonia, on 3 May 1679 he left money to his grandchildren because he was going to remarry. Ursula Duran was the daughter of Juan Juarez [deceased] and Polonia Duran.

Where can I look to find baptism, marriage and death records for this family?

I think that Jose de Leon Brito and Juan Brito are the same person married to Antonia Ursula Duran

Juan de Leon Brito and his wife Antonia Ursula Duran lived in the barrio of Analco in Santa Fe, New Mexico before the 1680 Pueblo Revolt.

His son Juan de Leon Brito and Maria de los Reyes Granillo had the following children: Maria Magdalena; Juana Gregoria;and Brigida [all born in Santa Fe].

The information about the money he left to his family comes from
Archivo Historico de Zacatecas, Fondo: Notarias, Notario: Felipe de Espinosa, Caja: 3, Libro: 9, Ano: 1679, no. 87 and no. 89.

Can I access these two documents online?

I found this information at the website for the New Mexico Office of the State Historian: http://www.newmexicohistory.org/filedetails.php?fileID=22200

Juan Brito and Antonia Ursula Duran are my eight great grandparents

Stanley A. Lucero
Madera, California

ROMO DE VIVAR 1800 -1850

Forums

Genealogy Research

Alguien tiene familias Romo de Vivar en Zacatecas entre los años 1800 y 1850?
Humberto Pro

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