Nuestros Ranchos Site

En el pueblo de Ayo a seis de marzo de mil ochocientos cuarenta y cuatro, Yo, el bachiller D. Rafael Cornejo, por enfermedad de propietario y como encargado del curato di licencia para que se diera sepultura eclesiastica en el campo santo de esta parroquia, al Cadáver de Juan Hernández, adulto, de veinticinco años, casado con Guadalupe Martínez a quien dejo viudo, murió de fiebre ayer a las dos de la tarde en el rancho Altamirano. Se confeso y oleo y para constancia lo firme: no testó por pobre.

Saludos,

Estudié a fondo la dispensa y me parece que los linajes dados por los testigos y también el árbol al final fueron incluidos al último como una idea tardía. Miren nomás como la escritura de los linajes parecen un poco diferente a los textos que proceden antes. Esto me parece sospechoso. En mi opinión la dispensa contiene varios errores.

Según las fuentes e informaciones que consulté en FamilySearch, Nuestros Ranchos, Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia y Wikitree, el árbol debía ser así:

Tronco: Antonio de Escoto.
1er grado: Juan de Escoto e Ignacio de Escoto son hermanos.
2do grado: Juan Marcos de Escoto y Fabián de Escoto son primos hermanos.
3er grado: Manuel de Escoto y María de la Concepción de Escoto son primos segundos.

No sé mucho sobre los demás pero sí se algo sobre Fabián de Escoto. Él vivió en la Sabanilla y en Agua Nueva. Hoy en día ambos lugares se localizan dentro del municipio de Arandas pero tengo entendido que en 1746 esa zona perteneció eclesiásticamente a la jurisdicción de la Barca.

En 1735 José de Cano se robó a María de los Dolores, hija de don Fabián, y ellos también pidieron dispensa para casarse. En ese documento podemos enterarnos más sobre quien era Don Fabián de Escoto.

El primer testigo, Don Pedro de la Barrera dijo “…que sabe que de sacarle a Fabián de Escoto a la hija por fuerza se han de seguir diferencias y escándalos por ser un hombre de recia condición y temerario…”

El siguiente testigo, José Manuel Magaña dijo algo parecido: “…que sabe que de sacarle a Fabián de Escoto a María de los Dolores por fuerza se han de seguir grandes daños con mucho escándalo por ser un hombre de recia condición y temerario en todas sus cosas…”

El tercer testigo, Nicolás José de Escamilla dijo: “…que sabe que de mandar suma[?] dicho Vicario sacar a la dicha María de los Dolores de poder de su padre se podían seguir diferencias y escándalos por ser el dicho Escoto hombre de recia y cruda condición y muy pundonoroso…”

En el expediente de la dispensa se ve además una nota que se supone fue incluida como evidencia y que creo fue escrita y firmada por el mismo Don Fabián y dirigida a José Cano negándole por tercera vez matrimonio con María de los Dolores.

Kenya, la dispensa que compartiste con nosotros, de 1746, dice que don Fabián se opuso al matrimonio de su hija María de la Concepción con Manuel de Escoto y que para impedirlo:

• intentó de matar al pretenso con dos balazos,
• abusó verbalmente a su hija,
• la golpeó hasta que sangró de la nariz,
• la mandó a Guadalajara a trabajar en una panadería por dos meses,
• la mandó a Poncitlán,
• y finalmente a la Hacienda de Don Diego Pérez de donde fue rescatada por el pretenso y de allí llevada a Pátzcuaro.

Dado lo sucedido en 1735 no es de extrañar la durísima reacción de don Fabián en 1746 cuando por segunda vez le quitan una hija en contra de su voluntad. De todos modos con el tiempo hicieron la paz pues en los años 1754 (Ignacio José) y 1761 (María Elena) don Fabián y doña Magdalena aparecen como padrinos de bautismo de dos hijos de Manuel y de María de la Concepción.

hola reviza el link , aqui vienen los datos de Ignacio Escoto http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/node/22080

saludos

Miguel Castañeda was married to María Velasco. I believe that Damiana Castañeda y Velasco is most likely their descendant. Miguel and Maria were married 20/Feb/1621 in Zamora, Nueva España (Michoacán, México). More research is needed to confirm thi information.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-GY3K-73?i=27&wc=3NTR-B…

Rick A. Ricci

A dispensa would not have been required as the relationship is between the 4th and 5th degrees. You are very lucky that they provided this as it gives you even more information then an average dispensa. Dispensas are for fourth degree or less, which is third cousin or closer.

From the information that we see in this record, and other marriage and baptismal records, I was able to put this family tree together. Here is this Castaneda family tree:

Castañeda

1. Pedro Ramirez and Damiana Castañeda y Velasco are the parents of
1.1. Nicolas Ramirez Castañeda married to María Josefa Bejarano Monroy, parents of (1.1.1 José Miguel and 1.1.2 Salvador)

1.1.1 José Miguel Giordano Castañeda married to María Candelaria Lopez,
1..1.1.1Juan Antonio Castaneda Lopez married Rita Gertrudis Plancarte
1.1.1.1.1. María Josepha Castañeda married to José Vicente Orta Del Río
1.1.1.1.1.1. Vicente Orta Castañeda and María Ana Alcaras
1.1.1.1.1.1.1. Vicenta Orta married to 1.1.1.2.1.1.1. Tomas Castañeda (third cousins once removed)

1.1.2 Salvador Castañeda Lopez married to Manuela Contreras Romero
1.1.2.1. Vicente Guadalupe Castañeda married to María Guadalupe Garcia
1.1.2.1.1 Matías Castañeda Garcia married to Francisca Mendes
1.1.2.1.1.1. Tomas Castañeda married to 1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Vicenta Orta (third cousins once removed)

María Guadalupe Garcia is how you are related to me. From her maternal grandmother she descends from the Garcia De Alba and Martin del Campo families.

Rick A. Ricci

So, I looked at what you shared and it appears to me that you’ve done a thorough job. I think you’re on the right track and I agree with your findings. Yes, it would be better if all of the names and ages were consistent and 100% accurate across all of the records, but I think you should feel confident with what you’ve discovered so far. (Every time I find myself in your situation, coping with uncertainty in the records, I remind myself that many of my ancestors were illiterate and didn’t carry ID in their wallets.)

You didn’t mention the following so I am including them here.

The información matrimonial for José Ventura Hernández and Rodriga Santana.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XC9P-M?i=422&cc=1874591&cat=301918

A page from the 1825 padrón which I believe shows Juan Hernández living with his parents, Santiago Hernández and Josefa Reyes, and right next door to his widowed grandmother, Josefa Hernández, in la estancia de Tarimoro.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-W9DT-6?i=228&cat=32677

it's a conditional baptism. because they couldn't verify whether the child was validly baptized. there could be lots of reasons but the most likely one is that there was an emergency baptism because the child was sick and the person baptizing may not have been sure that it was done properly.

Danny

Dolores Gutierrez is my Mother:
.
.
4th Great Grandfather of Dolores Gutierrez wife of Chet Castanon
.
baptism 18 Dec 1691 in San Francisco, Angamacutiro de la Union, Michoacan Mexico
Carlos Juan
parents: Antonio Munguia and Maria Mollineda Villasenor
source; 608779. film
.
marriage dispensation requested 25 Sept 1739 in Zapotlan, Jalisco
Don Carlos Munguia y Villela from Tinquindin living in Tamazula many years age 43
widower of Dona Maria Gertrudis Maciel buried in San Juan Periban
with Dona Theresa Coria y Peralta from Tamazula age 22
parents: Don Antonio Coria deceased and Dona Antonia de Villasenor
.
marriage dispensation in 4th degree
parents: Bartolome Nunes Hidalgo and Marta Rincon
Leonor Nunes Rincon....Ynes Nunes Rincon
Juana Villasenor.............Matias Villasenor
Maria Mollineda................Antonia Villasenor
Carlos Munguia................Teresa Corea

source: 768760 Morelia, Michoacan dispensations 1739-1740
page 203 Familysearch online
.
marriage 15 Nov 1739 in Tamazula, Jalisco
Carlos Munguia from Tamazula
with Dona Theresa de Coria from Tamazula
grandparents not listed
witness: Don Benito Ochoa, Juan Manuel Dias and others
godparents; Don Antonio Villasenor and Dona Ana Munguia
source: 226026 film
page 84 Family search online
.
.
6th Great Grandfather of Dolores Gutierrez wife of Chet Castanon
.
4) Juan de Munguia cc ??? Villegas.

(5) Fernando (Hernando) de Munguia y Villegas cc ???

(6) Antonio Munguia cc Maria de Mollinedo de Santa Cruz y Villasenor

(7) Carlos Juan [Carlos I] Munguia cc Maria Antonia Theresa de Coria y Villasenor,

(8) Carlos Yldephonso De La Trinidad Munguia Coria [Carlos II]
source: information shared by R.A. Ricci
.

Hi Frank,

I agree with Rick. Please provide more information on your findings: names, dates, locations and weblinks to the documents you have. To be specific, my Duran and Muñoz lines are from Nochistlan, Zacatecas which is in the southern part of the state and only a few kilometers from Jalisco. My first documented Duran is Juan Ximon Duran Duque who married Regina de Aguayo around 1625. One of their daughters, Maria Duran Aguayo, married Nicolas Muñoz de Leon, my first documented Muñoz, in Nochistlan on May 6, 1640. All the Duran's I have researched have come from Juan Ximon and Regina. As for my the Muñoz, I have confirmed 2 different Muñoz lines in Nochistlan. My studies have found other Muñoz lines in the area referred to as "Los Altos de Jalisco". If I remember correctly one of those Muñoz lines was from Jalostotitlán, Jalisco.

Saludos,
Juan Aguayo

Hello Frank,

You didn’t provide the information that you found. If you want help then you need to provide the information that you do have, and if possible links to the records in order to look for more clues. Many of the Duran from this area of Jalisco came from Zacatecas.

Rick A. Ricci

Welcome, Frank!

Have you searched the church and civil records that are on Family Search? Go to familysearch.org and type in your family names. This site has most of the church and civil records digitized, and some of them have been indexed (in other words, volunteers transcribed the names and dates to help you find the records more clearly). You will need an account, but they're free to get. If you need more help, feel free to let us know. Here are the links to the church records for the state of Jalisco: https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https://www.familys…

You'll need the account first before you can see the records.

R

Hello Carlos,

Could the “Leon/Leonardo Hernandez” be the same person known as “José María Hernández” married on 8/Sep/1818 in Tepatitlan to Maria Deonicia Rodriguez? I am attaching some records that may be of some help to you.

Good Luck,
Rick A. Ricci

++++++++++

Jose Maria Hernandez
Spouse's Name Maria Deonicia Rodriguez
Event Date 09 Sep 1818
Event Place Tepatitlan De Morelos,Jalisco,Mexico
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JCF3-CQ6 : 10 February 2018), Jose Maria Hernandez and Maria Deonicia Rodriguez, 09 Sep 1818; citing Tepatitlan De Morelos,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 218,520.

+++++++++++

Name
Jose Pio Hernandez
Event Type
Baptism
Event Date
15 Jul 1830
Event Place
San Francisco de Asís, Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, Mexico
Gender
Male
Birth Date
05 Jul 1830
Birthplace
Tepatitlan, Jalisco, Mexico
Father's Name
Jose Maria Hernandez
Mother's Name
Dionicia Rodriguez
Paternal Grandfather's Name(Josef Olayo Norato Hernandez)
Olayo Hernandez
Paternal Grandmother's Name(Maria Asumpcion Vallarta)
Ascencion Vallarta
Maternal Grandmother's Name
Josefa Rodriguez

Citing this Record
México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-1979, database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NRWZ-X25 : 10 March 2018), Dionicia Rodriguez in entry for Jose Pio Hernandez, 15 Jul 1830; citing Baptism, San Francisco de Asís, Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, Mexico, parroquias Católicas Jalisco (Catholic Church parishes, Jalisco); FHL microfilm 218,452

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Maria Eusebia Hernandez
Event Type Baptism
Event Date 06 Oct 1859
Event Place Santa María de Guadalupe, Arandas, Jalisco, Mexico
Gender Female
Birthplace Piedras Blancas
Father's Name Mateo Hernandez
Mother's Name Rosalia Gonsales
Paternal Grandfather's Name Leon
Paternal Grandmother's Name Dionicia Rodriguez
Maternal Grandfather's Name Fransisco
Maternal Grandmother's Name Maria Ygnacia Camacho
Citing this Record
México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-1979, database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK72-V3XQ : 8 March 2018), Dionicia Rodriguez in entry for Maria Eusebia Hernandez, 06 Oct 1859; citing Baptism, Santa María de Guadalupe, Arandas, Jalisco, Mexico, parroquias Católicas Jalisco (Catholic Church parishes, Jalisco); FHL microfilm 279,539

+++++++++++++++++

I think the word would be limosna, or alms. If you add a link to the record, we can confirm.

Dear Martha,

I am also curious to find out what amosia means. I looked for an answer to your question through many dictionaries, but was unsuccessful. Please copy the link and paste the death record here so that I can review it and look for more clues.

Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci

It means the child was abandoned in the house of.

Danny

José Marcial Ángel de Ocaña has a grandson named Francisco Xavier Angel De Ocana so I believe that you are correct in that they most likely very close relatives. Marcial’s wife, Maria Ramirez passed away on 20 October 1762 in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

Rick A. Ricci

Record keepers used various symbols in the margins in registros and padrones and their usage was not uniform or consistent. In some instances the record creator shared with the reader what those symbols represented but often they did not, and so we may never know for sure their intended meaning.

In the second example you shared in this thread, the baptisms on image 480, the cross might represent that the individual later received another sacrament in the parish, such as the sacrament of matrimony. Or, perhaps it means that the baptism was performed as an act of charity (de limosna). I say this because a few individuals in the registro have sums above their names, like the 100 for María Franca. de la Luz española de la Barranca de las Viudas on image 485.

In your other example, from the padrón, we know the meaning behind the cross in the margin because the writer stated on the first page of the padrón the following:

“. . . el Padrón de esta Feligresía de Ayo el Chico: Los que van con Cruces han cumplido con los preceptos anuales (confesión y comunión), y los q[u]e no son por ausentes y enfermos, y lo están verificando Sucesivamente.”

You got it. I agree.

Who are the people that you're actually stuck on?

Paige

i have sagrada mitra de guadalajara

Danny C. Alonso

Hi Cherna,

Yes you have it correct, it's El Saucito.

Thank you,
Esther

Hi Aaron, i found Nicolas Brambila and Juana de Orozco as godparents on one of my ancestor, i think they are related to my family because the mother who appears on the baptism record is Ana Rita de Ochoa (Brambila)

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-KSSS-T5?i=410&cc=18745…

I have this, My family was from Chilchota as well as Cotija. I have 9 children for Donato and Gertrudis.
.
marriage 5 Feb 1758 in Tamazula, Jalisco
Don Donato Lopes de Lara Espanol from valle de Cotixa living in Tamazula 4 years
parents: Dona Donato Lopes de Lara and Dona Gertrudis Valencia deceased
with Dona Maria Gertrudis Bambrila Espanola from Tamazula
parents: Don Nicolas Brambila and Dona Juana de Orosco
source: 226026 film
page 119 Family search online
.
Juan Antonio is brother of Donato
.
marriage 5 Feb 1758 in Tamazula, Jalisco
Don Juan Antonio Lopes de Lara Espanol from valle de Cotixa living in Tamazula
parents: Don Donato Lopes de Lara and Dona Gertrudis Valencia
with Dona Ygnacia Magana Espanola from valle de Mazamitla living in Tamazula
parent: Don Miguel Magana and Dona Efigenia Baldovinos
source: 226026 film
page 119 Family search online
.
I have 11 children for Nicolas Membrila and Juana Maria Teresa Orosco. My files are on Rootsweb.com and called Mexico, this link will take you to Nicolas Membrila and Juana Orosco
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=REG&db=mexico&id=I69…
.
this link will take you to what I have on Donato Lopez de Lara and Gertrudis Membrila
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=REG&db=mexico&id=I62…
.

Below is the record ID for what could possibly be your family on www.familysearch.org. Many people have worked on this couple since 2011 but they were not merged togehter because the name Membrila, Manbrila, Mamvrila etc. had many spellings and Juana de Orosco is also Joanna de Orosco during this early period. There is also another couple named Francisco Nicolas married to Juana de Orosco during this time period though the Francisco Nicolas does not appear with a surname on many records so may not be the same couple as it was in Tonala, Jalisco.

Nicolas Mambrila
1710–Deceased • LTG7-TWL​
Juana De Orosco
1712–Deceased • LTG7-Y5Y

http://w2.siap.sagarpa.gob.mx/mapoteca/mapas/1788-OYB-7241-A.jpg
See if this opens for you. It is a map of Zacatecas from 1889 i believe. If it doesn't open, please let me know and I'll see if I can post it another way. I hope it is what you are looking for. My family was from that general area...Mezquital del Oro, Moyahua, Juchipila, etc
Sandra

I'm not sure if that is the one you are looking for, but it does seem to work if you copy and paste. That name just sounded very familiar to me.

I found another daughter of Antonio Posadas and María Antonia Quiros named Lusia Rosalia, but no grandparents.

Name: Lusia Rosalia Pozadas Quiroz
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 26 Dec 1763
Christening Place: SAN COSME,VILLA DE COS,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Father's Name: Anto. Pozadas
Mother's Name: Anta. Quiroz
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: K60118-2
System Origin: Mexico-ODM
GS Film number: 1095153

Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVXP-89V : 10 February 2018), Anta. Quiroz in entry for Lusia Rosalia Pozadas Quiroz, 26 Dec 1763; citing SAN COSME,VILLA DE COS,ZACATECAS,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 1,095,153.

"México, Zacatecas, registros parroquiales, 1605-1980," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-1MVB-5?cc=1804458&wc=3PSH-MNL%3A147565401%2C147565402%2C147715501 : 21 May 2014), Villa de Cos > San Cosme > Bautismos 1757-1764, 1775-1787 > image 196 of 626; paróquias Católicas, Zacatecas (Catholic Church parishes, Zacatecas).

i am doing some research in Tlaltenango. Thank you for sharing your information.

No hablo español bien, pero en mi árbol tengo el hermano de Francisca de Escobedo Avila (Pablo Joseph de Escobedo abt 1715). Yo encontré este bautismo:

28 Mayo 1687 Manuel español hijo de Joseph de Escobedo y Juana de Renteria
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-1SWD-X?i=682&cc=1804458

While I have references of several ancestors having come from Spain, I haven't been able to locate them on the ship lists or to find their documentation at the Casa de la Contratación.

Yes, I have to Diego de Temiño, from Seville. He is one of my 13th great-grandfathers. He left Spain to immigrate to the New World on 13 Jun 1518, going first to Cartagena, Colombia, then to Mexico. His name is found in the Inquisition records of Seville. Los Conversos y la Inquisición Sevillana, by Juan Gil, Universidad de Sevilla, 2001, vol 5, p. 385.

Yes, I have to Diego de Temiño, from Seville. He is one of my 13th great-grandfathers. He left Spain to immigrate to the New World on 13 Jun 1518, going first to Cartagena, Colombia, then to Mexico. His name is found in the Inquisition records of Seville. Los Conversos y la Inquisición Sevillana, by Juan Gil, Universidad de Sevilla, 2001, vol 5, p. 385.

And beyond. I am currently doing most of my work on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean. I have gone back another hundred years, crossed another border, and am currently working on a French ancestral line of the Reynoso family that goes back to Charlemagne.

Rick A. Ricci

Hi Nancy,

I would need more information to positively identify your grandmother Aurelia Lomeli. Is her second surname Carranza? Do you have a birthdate or any other information that would help indentify her? The church would have information on your great aunt that was a nun.

Good luck in your research,
Rick A. Ricci