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By eduran74 |

Hola parientes, I am currently stuck. I am looking for any baptismal records for Rafael Duran. Rafael is my 4th great-grandfather. I found his matrimonial record of his marriage to Dolores Aguilera on the 23rd of February 1800: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DY3Q-FJS?i=264&cc=1502…

I'm stuck because the record states "padres no conocidos" so his parents are not listed. With Dolores he goes on to have many children born in Calvillo, Aguascalientes. Does anyone have any potential leads I can follow? My hunch is he was born some time around 1775-1777. I've search in Zacatecas, Aguascalientes and Jalisco. The closest I've found is Josef Rafael Duran baptized in Teocaltiche, Jalisco in 1777: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-GR6G-6?i=368&cc=1874591

Thank you,

Ernesto Duran

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eduran74

4 years 5 months ago

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Hola Rafael, Angelica and Rick,

I think I have found some related information about Santiago Duran and Estefana Escoto. For some time, I have tried to find a marriage record of the couple. By accident while looking for Santiago Duran I came up on this record on familysearch.com: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939D-6Z1G-1?i=74&wc=3P93-ZNL%3A147335801%2C147335802%2C149017601&cc=1804458. It is a marriage record of Santiago Medina and Estefana Escoto. The interesting thing about this record is that the parental information is very close to the records I have for Santiago Duran and Estefana Escoto. In Santiago’s case, my corroborated records show that Santiago’s parents were Rafael Duran and Dolores Aguilera and Estefana’s parents were Nepomuceno Escoto and Francisca Garcia. The record I have linked show Santiago as Santiago Medina and his parents as Rafael Medina and Dolores Aguilera, and Estefana’s as Nepomuceno Escoto and Francisca Garcia. Additionally, the linked record shows that they are living in San Pedro, an hacienda near Jalpa. All of my direct Duran ancestors lived in the Hacienda San Pedro.

I also have related records on Estefana Escoto. For instances, I have Estefana’s death record, https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-95VR-9JJL?i=781&wc=MDP9-96D%3A204578601%2C204578002&cc=1916240. In the death record, it states that Idelfonso Hernandez, Estefana’s son-in-law, has reported the death of Estefana to the civil judge of Jalpa. Idelfonso was married to Maria Luz Duran, Estefana’s and Santiago Duran’s daughter.

So Santiago and Estefana were living in Hacienda San Pedro near Jalpa. One question I have is why would Santiago go under the surname Medina for the marriage, but then revert back to Duran? All their kids use the Duran surname. Another question I have is does anyone have any info on Medinas in Zacatecas or Aguascalientes that my have references to Rafael Medina?

Thanks,

Ernesto Duran

Saludos Ernesto,

Rafael Duran also went by Rafael Medina

Rafael Duran married Maria Dolores Aguilera the 23/Feb/1800 in Aguascalientes

Maria Dolores Aguilera’s parents are Juan Manuel Aguilera and Maria Luciana de Jesus Guerrero

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(1) Francisco Thomas Duran was married on 30//May/1712 in Guanajuato to Salvadora de Jesus Medina

(2) Juan Jose Francisco Hipólito Duran y Medina was married to Maria Ana Gertrudis Lopez Padilla 27/July/1763

(3) Jose Rafael Duran

This Jose Rafael Duran is probably your Rafael Duran aka Rafael Medina

Rick A. Ricci

Saludos Ernesto,
You are most likely related to me through María Estefana Escoto Garcia. We still need to continue investigating to find the connection. I believe that we are related through the Marin.

Maria Estefana Escoto Garcia was baptized on New Year’s Day, 1/Jan/1815 at San Juan de Los Lagos, Jalisco by her parents Nepomuceno Escoto and Francisca Garcia. Nepomuceno and Francisca were married on 9/Feb/1814, also in San Juan de Los Lagos, Jalisco.

Nepomuceno is the son of Felipe Escoto and María Juaquina Marin. I believe that María Juaquina is related to my Marin De Anda ancestors.

Maria Francisca Garcia Navejas was baptized on 26/October/1795 in San Juan de Los Lagos parents Jose Margaro Garcia and Maria Josefa Navejas.

Image 127

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-K3N1-8?i=126&cc=1874591

Rick A. Ricci

Hello Ernie,

Glad I could Help. Here are a couple tidbits on the family.

Maria Luciana de Jesus Guerrero Also used the surname Guerra.

Jose Margaro Garcia was also known as Margarito Garcia.

There are Padrinos with the surname De Anda Which leads me to believe that María Juaquina Marin is related to the Marin De Anda family. I believe that Juaquina Marin is related to Juan Manuel Marin married to Ana Maria De San Ramon de Anda. A search of this couple may reveal valuable clues. I would not be surprised if Joaquina Marin is a daughter of Juan Manuel Main and Ana María de San Ramon de Anda.

Good luck,
Rick A. Ricci

Rick, my brother had his DNA tested with Ancestry.com and it looks like I am descended from Jose Francisco Nepomuceno Escoto (page 332) whose parents are Jose Rafael Escoto and Bartola Flores. As the Ancestry TrueLines show I have relatives stemming from Jose Rafael Escoto and Maria Bartola Flores (with separate connections, relatives from Escoto and relatives from Flores).

Am I missing something?

Thanks,

Ernesto Duran

The information about the DNA is fantastic because now we can search Jose Rafael’s ancestry and see if we can find Clues to Felipe’s ancestry. You might be right that Felipe and Rafael are brothers, I also see a possibility of Felipe being the son Jose Rafael Escoto. In this scenario, your Nepomuceno is named after his uncle Francisco Nepomuceno Escoto. We need to do more research to find the exact relationship.

The Escoto from Sevilla were originally from Genoa. I have done a lot of research on this family in Castilla and Genoa.

Jose Rafael Escoto is the son of Jose Mariano Escoto Tovar y Elizalde and María German Barajas.

María Bartola Flores is the daughter of Jose Flores and Maria Antonia de Avalos.

Jose Mariano Escoto Is the son of Nicolas Escoto Tovar y Morales and Felipa Lopez de Elizalde.

Nicolas Escoto is the son of Ygnacio Escoto Tovar y Ortiz and Beatriz Morales

Ygnacio Escoto is the son of Antonio Escoto Tovar and Ynes Ortiz de Rodas

Maria Antonia Avalos, the mother of Maria Bartola Flores was married at least twice as she has at least one other husband.

Rick

There are previous posts that have to do with some ancestors of María Bartola Flores

María Bartola Flores is the daughter of Jose Flores and Maria Antonia de Avalos

María Antonia de Avalos is the daughter of Pedro de Avalos and Juana Olivares

Pedro de Avalos is the son of Miguel de Avalos and Maria Gutierrez (Baez?)

Pedro de Avalos is the son of Isabel de Avalos

Isabel de Avalos is the daughter of Beatriz Sanchez Mendoza

Miguel De Avalos y Villaseñor was married to Maria Gutierrez. I believe that Teresa Baez (aka Gutierrez) and Maria Gutierrez are the same person.
Miguel is the son of Isabel De Avalos y Sánchez (daughter of Maria Sanchez)
This family connects to the family in post: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/24206?page=2

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/node/24208

Dear Ernie,
Here is Nepomuceno’s marriage record. It clearly shows that Nepomuceno is the son of Felipe and not Joseph Rafael:

https://sg30p0.familysearch.org/service/records/storage/dascloud/das/v2…

Nepomuceno is the son of Felipe Escoto and María Juaquina Marin

Francisca Garcia is the daughter of Margarito (Margaro) Garcia and Maria Josefa Nabejas.

If Felipe was Jose Rafael Escoto’s brother then Nepomuceno would not descend from Bartola Flores. In combination with what you have found with DNA ancestry test results, it leads us to the conclusion that Felipe is the son of Jose Rafael Escoto and Maria Bartola Flores.

Another tidbit is that both the Escotos and the Marins have ancestors from Genoa. The Escotos and Marins descend from Genoese businessmen that went to Sevilla. These lines are why you show a little Italian AncestryDNA.
Rick

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AJaime76

4 years 12 months ago

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I have a lot of Duran family on my tree, wonder if we may be from the same line. My GEDmatch kit number is KK6796917

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eduran74

4 years 10 months ago

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Hi Angelica,

I looked at your GEDCOM and noticed that most of the Durans in your tree are from Nochistlan, so far none of my ancestors are from Nochistlan. Thanks for the suggestion.

Ernie Duran

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Raramosa

4 years 10 months ago

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Echoing what Rick said, keep an eye on the godparents of his children. If you see any other Durans mark them down.

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eduran74

4 years 9 months ago

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Rick and Rafael, so I went through baptismal records of Rafael Duran's offsprings again and found in my direct ancestor, Santiago Duran, abuelos paternos only Rafaela Duran listed. With the other children, the baptismal record only listed "padres no conocidos" for the abuelos paternos.

In doing research on "padres no conocidos" I found that often the child will not take the father's last name if the child was born out of wedlock and instead will take the mother's last name. As a result, the child's baptismal record will often be noted in "bautismos de hijos naturales".

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R.A.Ricci

4 years 9 months ago

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Great find Ernesto,

Finding the parents of someone who has a record stating “Padres no conocidos” is not impossible, but as you can see it takes a lot of work and often ends up without any positive results. Your research took you one step farther into your ancestral line and often because of the lack of a marriage record the trail ends there. But if you continue researching it is possible to continue the ancestral line.

You could try researching whether Rafael used any other surnames. Often someone that is illegitimate will later use his biological father’s surname in later records.

Wishing you the best of luck in your family research,

Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci

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R.A.Ricci

5 years 1 month ago

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Hello Ernesto,

Finding the parents of someone who has a record stating “Padres no conocidos” is not impossible, but it will take work. The most likely place to look for more information is to to go through all of his children’s records with a fine tooth comb. The first ones to look at are baptismal records.

Good luck,
Rick A. Ricci

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