So i am sort of having like a brick wall im stuck with Ambrosio De Armas And Quiteria De Velasco.I know the had around 5 5 kids and they were from Nochistlan.If anybody can help me im having such a ha
Father was Miguel Reyes mother Espridiona Gomez had a twin Germana Reyes. Born in Encarnacion de Diaz Jalisco Mexico . Father widowed and later married Dominga Prado.
Hello all,
Seguro será una presentación súper interesante y profesional como tu trabajo en la Web. Que pena no poder estar allí. Esperaré pacientemente el resumen.
Creo que hay tanta información en los detalles de cada documento de investigación matrimonial que es un gran tesoro poder acceder a ellos con el catálogo que presenta guadalajaradispensas.com
Cada documento resuelve algunas incógnitas y suscita otras. A veces me he preguntado por qué hay quienes piden dispensas para evadir las amonestaciones, por ejemplo. generalmente quienes lo hacen me parece se apoyan en su liderazgo social y económico. En fin, desde la caligrafía, el lugar de donde proceden los documentos, las distintas clases de dispensas que se piden, las multas y penitencias, etc. todos me parecen puntos de apoyo para investigar cada documento y con él cada personage y cada familia.
Muchas gracias por tu trabajo y mucho éxito en la conferencia.
Jorge Elias
Miami, FL
Several of Nuestros Ranchos members have shown interest on DNA testing. I learned that Familytreedna has announced a two day sale on new DNA tests and upgrades (Friday 20th and Saturday 21st).
I hope some of you took advantage of the FamilytreeDNA sale! Also, please remember that I am curating the master database of NuestrosRanchos mtDNA results. If you would like to include your results--please send me a private message, per instructions here: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/19799
Saludos,
Claudia
www.guadalajaradispensas.com
Linda,
Your RootsWeb website is a fountain of information. I didn't see any Corvera/Corbera listings.
Pat you are right, I have Cordero not Corbera.. sorry abt that!
Do you have a Jerez connection?
Linda in Everett
________________________________
From: Pat Corbera
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:41 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] RootsWeb Websote - Attm - Linda
Linda,
Your RootsWeb website is a fountain of information. I didn't see any Corvera/Corbera listings. I will check out the Cordero and Cabrera listings in hopes that my Corberas may be linked with these possible spelling variations...
I will continue to view your site for other surnames that appear in my family history search.
Once again thank you.. you have done a wonderful job in sharing your findings...
Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy CA
Linda,
A Jerez connection, not that I'm aware of... but since I'm having a hard time locating Corbera connections, it very possible. There appears to be Corvera/Corberas sprinkled through-out Mexico.
No problem with Cordero not being Corbera... there are so many spelling variations I keep telling my husband at this point in my research I'm beginning to believe our last name could even be Smith :-).
Pat
---- Original Message -----
From: "Erlinda Castanon-Long"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 4:13:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] RootsWeb Websote - Attm - Linda
Pat you are right, I have Cordero not Corbera.. sorry abt that!
Do you have a Jerez connection?
Linda in Everett
________________________________
From: Pat Corbera
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:41 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] RootsWeb Websote - Attm - Linda
Linda,
Your RootsWeb website is a fountain of information. I didn't see any Corvera/Corbera listings. I will check out the Cordero and Cabrera listings in hopes that my Corberas may be linked with these possible spelling variations...
I will continue to view your site for other surnames that appear in my family history search.
Once again thank you.. you have done a wonderful job in sharing your findings...
Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy CA
Hola Primo Miggy,
Benigno Gutierrez se caso dos veces. Su primera esposa fue Emeteria Gutierrez Padilla y su segunda (mi bisabuela) fue Maria-Ysabel Gutierrez Padilla.
Adrián Márquez Padilla
Gracias Irma por la información, Emeteria Gutierrez Padilla, hija de Simon Gutierrez y Rita Padilla, acta de matrimonio con Benigno Gutierrez:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18684-53252-29?cc=1874591&wc…
María Emeteria Gutierrez Padilla fue hermana de mi bisabuela materna Maria Refugio Gutierrez Padilla.
Ysabel Gutierrez Padilla, hija de Pablo Gutierrez y Refugio Padilla...
Saludos
So i found the parents of Victoriano Ruiz and Maria Ysabel Albares but there is a problem i need help on figuring out Maria Ysabel mothers first name and last name im guesing her first name is Maria h
Moises B. Huizar
En la Iglesia parroquial de Nochistlan. en 28 dias del mes de enero de 1808, yo, el presbitero Don Rafael Higinio Mendez De Torres como teniente de esta Feligresia, bautice solemnemente y puse los santos oleos a una nina, que dijeron haber nacido el 28 mes a las 4 de la manana poco mas o menos. Hija legitima de y de legitimo matrimonio de Don Victoriano Ruiz y de Dona Maria Ysabel Albarez, espanoles del rancho " (???)" de esta Feligresia. Abuelos Paternos: Don Jose Antonio Ruiz y Dona Maria Felipa Gonsalez. y maternos Don Jose Maria Alvarez y Dona Maria De La O Duran., asimismo espanoles de dicho rancho. Se le puso por nombre Maria Sebastiana Ynes De La Santisima Trinidad. Fueron sus padrinos Don Rafael Mastromedo Zeballos y Dona Manuela Servantes Negrete, espanoles de este pueblo a quienes administre el pan espiritual y demas obligaciones. Es para que conste. Lo firmo con el Sr cura propio.
Juan Xavier De Zuniga Rafael Higinio Mendez De Torres
Moises,
This baptism record is very interesting, some families that I have studied are the Ceballos, Cervantes-Negrete and even the priest should be my relative. D. Rafael Higinio Mendez de Torres, not sure how, but I would like to find out how he is related to me. I had no idea one of our family members went to Nochistlan and was the officiating priest. This is really nice.
Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino
It looks like Maria de la O Duran to me
Jose Carlos de Leon
Abram Flores
Here is the marriage document of Jose Maria Albares and Maria De La "O" Duran
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15185-40770-1?cc=1410092&wc=…
Can someone translate this document for me please?
Abram
To improve your proficiency in reading and understanding these documents, I would suggest the following. It is a moderate amount of work initially, but it will, in a short time, greatly improve your ability to read these documents:
(1) Enlarge the image a lot to make it easier to read. If you can't enlarge it enough with Family Search, download the image and use image software (the one that comes with Windows is ok, others are better. I use Picassa, which is freeware.)
(2) Transcribe the document, as written, with the all abbreviations and mis-spellings. This, by itself, will make the document clearer; you may not need to do the next step.
(3) Use google translation to translate from Spanish into English the parts that are unclear (note that some clauses will be in Latin, such as "in facie Ecclise" which the Spanish-English translation will ignore).
Mis-spelled words and abbreviations will not get translated.
The google translation is a long ways from perfect, and sometimes what it gives you is a bit strange, but usually common sense can turn it into correct English.
This is certainly not a perfect process, but it can help.
As you gain proficiency, this will soon no longer be needed.
BTW: Jose Maria Albares is "hijo de padres no conosidos," so you are almost certainly at the end of the line for him. Maria de la O Duran is the daughter of Joseph de la O Duran and Manuela Sigala. This info is at the beginning of the record.
The format for this marriage record differs from many I've seen; but all the same basic information is there.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
Alguein me podria orientar como hacer cambios en mi árbol? Me concontré con un error y debo corregirlo.
Si nadie soluciona tu problema en dos o tres días recuerdame y trataré de
hacerlo cuando tenga tiempo. ¿cual programa de genealogía usas?
Armando
On Apr 22, 2012 10:51 PM, wrote:
> Alguein me podria orientar como hacer cambios en mi árbol? Me concontré
> con un error y debo corregirlo.
Hi, I would like to know what the difference was between entierros "humildes" and entierros "de limosna". I have also seen in records, that people actually gave money to the church (fabrica de ?
Entierro humilde was a humble burial. It was a simple burial, did not include high mass with a cross and candles
Entierro Mayor would include the capa, cruz, (cross) and ciriales (candles)
Entierro Humilde is a humble burial - Fee was paid for the burial
Entierro de Limosna - A Pauper's burial
At least this is how it was explained to me.
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca
________________________________
From: "sanjeronimolosbarbosa@yahoo.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 12:57 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Entierros "humildes" and "de limosna"
Hi, I would like to know what the difference was between entierros "humildes" and entierros "de limosna". I have also seen in records, that people actually gave money to the church (fabrica de ? pesos) so that the corpse could stay buried for a couple of years. I have also seen that in the burial records of San Martin Hidalgo of the 1820s, next to the corpse's race (e.g. español, yndio, mulato) the priest would write initials, most notably P. next to yndios, mulatos, and some españoles, and A. or Ad. to españoles. Has anybody encountered these initials before in burial records?
V. Quintero Castro
I assume it refers "humildes" to the Indios and "de limosna" as to a no-charge burial, but let's see what others have to say.
Jose Carlos de Leon
Hola a todos.
Aguascalientes, Ags. Febrero 20 de 1695. Exp.
Hola a todos.
Aguascalientes, Ags. Febrero 20 de 1695. Exp. 73 .- Dispensa de tercer con cuarto grado de consanguinidad.- Francisco Nuñez, castizo de 30 años de edad vecino y natural de Villa de Aguascalientes, hijo legitimo de Salvador Nuñez y de Maria Vasquez: con Rosa Maria de Ayala, española de 22 años de edad, natural y vecina de esta villa, hija legitima de Salvador de Villalobos y de Doña Angela de Ayala. Declaracion del pretenso: Que Maria Vásquez, mi madre y la madre de Salvador Villalobos, padre de la pretensa, fueron primas hermanas. Se otorgó la dispensa en la Ciudad de Guadalajara, en 9 de marzo de 1695. 19 fojas.
Iv'e been trying to locate an informacion matrimonial in the year 1762 from Nochistlan but i can't find it no where.Can someone please help?
Daniel Francisco Briones
We are also researching the name "Briones" - Altagracia Briones (B: abt.
1895, D: 1982).
Married Jose Antonio Escobedo.
Both probably from the Ja
Im pretty much stuck on this the Lomelin individual his name is Sebastian Lomelin he married Josefa Hurtado but i do not have their marriage record i descend from the offspring Maria Margarita Lomelin
Saludos amigos, he encontrado (tal parece) el inicio de mi árbol genealógico, pero me dice que Joseph Hurtado nacido entre los años 1655 y 1663 en el puesto de la Barrera, jurisdicción del rincón
Fue hijo de padres no conocidos.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18567-41563-8?cc=1874591&wc=…
On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 5:39 PM, wrote:
> Saludos amigos, he encontrado (tal parece) el inicio de mi árbol
> genealógico, pero me dice que Joseph Hurtado nacido entre los años 1655 y
> 1663 en el puesto de la Barrera, jurisdicción del rincón de León y
> avecinado en la feligresía de Lagos o en Nostanejo cerca de Jacona en las
> inmediaciones de Unión de San Antonio y radicado en El carrizo de los
> Hurtado Municipio de Lagos de Moreno y casado con Micaela De Anda
> Altamirano el 4 de marzo de 1690.
> ¿Alguien sabe con exactitud la fecha de nacimiento de Joseph Hurtado y el
> nombre de sus ascendentes?
>
> saludos
> profr. Raúl Hurtado Pérez
I have seen several death records from Asientos in the mid 1790s with a clause similar to "se entierro menor en fabrica de quatro pesos seis reales".
George.
The phrase in English is as follows [with Spanish in brackets]. I gave [di] ecclesiastical burial [sepultura ecclesiastica, note the mix of Latin and Spanish orthography] with a 'low burial mass' [con entierro menor]with a 'donation' of [en fabrica de] etc... The word 'fabrica' as used in this document is not modern, some dictionaries don't even list its meaning as used here. When an amount is proferred the term 'limosna' is not used because that word denotes an act of charity on the part of the parish. Church liturgy has different levels. For example there is difference between a high mass and a low mass. In some localities I have seen the use of 'con cruz baja' or 'con cruz alta' depending on whether or not the church choir, a procession, and other items were used in the service. Much of this information may not be applicable to current practices due to many liturgical changes. (I did view the film online.)
As for the changes wrought by Benito Juarez, I won't even go there. Hope this has helpful to you.
David Delgado
Albany, CA
-----Original Message-----
>From: gpf13@aol.com
>Sent: Mar 17, 2012 5:04 PM
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology
>
>David
>
>Thanks for the reply. I took another look at the records, and the actual language varies slightly from one record to another. I may have copied the phrase incorrectly. The whole phrase most often is something like "di sepultura eccca [note: there are 3 c's in the abbreviation] con entierro menor en fabrica seis pesos seis reales". This particular record is on image 287, Asientos Defunciones 1785/98, and is the record for Bernardo Francisco Padilla.
>
>The peso, in the 18th century, was a large silver coin comprised of 8 reales (so-called "piece of eight"; our dollar is based on this coin). Six pesos 6 reales seems to be a significant amount of money, although I have nothing on which to base the purchasing power of the peso.
>
>As I recall, one of the things that drove Benito Juarez's reforms concerning the Church in 1857 were the expenses associated with the sacraments.
>
>George Fulton
>Pleasanton, CA
George,
I remember noticing this in many death records, many of my ancestors had no distinction as entierro menor or entierro mayor, but my 5th great grandmother Maria de los Dolores Martinez de Sotomayor y Lopez Valdes had an entierro mayor which had sparked initial interest to find out more about it.
Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino
Daniel,
Where and when was your 5th GGM born/baptised... and who were her parents?
Pat Silva Corbera
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino"
To: "Nuestros Ranchos"
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 8:29:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Thanks!
George,
I remember noticing this in many death records, many of my ancestors had no distinction as entierro menor or entierro mayor, but my 5th great grandmother Maria de los Dolores Martinez de Sotomayor y Lopez Valdes had an entierro mayor which had sparked initial interest to find out more about it.
Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino
Thasnk you Daniel, Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino"
To: "Nuestros Ranchos"
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 11:00:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Thanks!
Pat,
Most of my mother's family is from Aguascalientes, where she was born, some from Jalisco and Mexico City. Maria Dolores Martinez de Sotomayor was born if I remember correctly 1802 or so in Aguascalientes.
Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino
George,
The phrase "entierro menor" denotes a type of liturgy or rite associated with a church burial. The word "fabrica" [accent on 'a'] refers to a church building fund. The rest of the phrase refers to the money of the day. Could "se" be the word "de"?, if not then the "se" doesn't make sense syntactically. All the clergy I have met over the years resist the notion of "charging" for the 'services' they provide. The phrase you noted is more of a personal note than sentence.
David Delgado
Albany, CA
-----Original Message-----
>From: gpf13@aol.com
>Sent: Mar 17, 2012 10:40 AM
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Assistance with terminology
>
>I have seen several death records from Asientos in the mid 1790s with a clause similar to "se entierro menor en fabrica de quatro pesos seis reales".
>
>Other records are annotated "limosna," which I assume means the person was poor, and was buried without a donation or payment to the Church.
>
>When I try a computer translation of this clause (such as with google), the result makes no sense.
>
>Is this amount a donation, or is this what it cost to be buried by the Church.
>
>George Fulton
I always thought "de limosna" meant that the sacrament was given "out of charity" or alms for the poor. I think the rich people always gave donations, but the poor people couldn't.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 13:40:33 -0700
> From: dpdelgado@jps.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Assistance with terminology
>
> George,
>
> The phrase "entierro menor" denotes a type of liturgy or rite associated with a church burial. The word "fabrica" [accent on 'a'] refers to a church building fund. The rest of the phrase refers to the money of the day. Could "se" be the word "de"?, if not then the "se" doesn't make sense syntactically. All the clergy I have met over the years resist the notion of "charging" for the 'services' they provide. The phrase you noted is more of a personal note than sentence.
>
> David Delgado
> Albany, CA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: gpf13@aol.com
> >Sent: Mar 17, 2012 10:40 AM
> >To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> >Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Assistance with terminology
> >
> >I have seen several death records from Asientos in the mid 1790s with a clause similar to "se entierro menor en fabrica de quatro pesos seis reales".
> >
> >Other records are annotated "limosna," which I assume means the person was poor, and was buried without a donation or payment to the Church.
> >
> >When I try a computer translation of this clause (such as with google), the result makes no sense.
> >
> >Is this amount a donation, or is this what it cost to be buried by the Church.
> >
> >George Fulton
That was my understanding, too.
--- On Sat, 3/17/12, Emilie Garcia wrote:
From: Emilie Garcia
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Assistance with terminology
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, March 17, 2012, 9:31 PM
I always thought "de limosna" meant that the sacrament was given "out of charity" or alms for the poor. I think the rich people always gave donations, but the poor people couldn't.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 13:40:33 -0700
> From: dpdelgado@jps.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Assistance with terminology
>
> George,
>
> The phrase "entierro menor" denotes a type of liturgy or rite associated with a church burial. The word "fabrica" [accent on 'a'] refers to a church building fund. The rest of the phrase refers to the money of the day. Could "se" be the word "de"?, if not then the "se" doesn't make sense syntactically. All the clergy I have met over the years resist the notion of "charging" for the 'services' they provide. The phrase you noted is more of a personal note than sentence.
>
> David Delgado
> Albany, CA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: gpf13@aol.com
> >Sent: Mar 17, 2012 10:40 AM
> >To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> >Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Assistance with terminology
> >
> >I have seen several death records from Asientos in the mid 1790s with a clause similar to "se entierro menor en fabrica de quatro pesos seis reales".
> >
> >Other records are annotated "limosna," which I assume means the person was poor, and was buried without a donation or payment to the Church.
> >
> >When I try a computer translation of this clause (such as with google), the result makes no sense.
> >
> >Is this amount a donation, or is this what it cost to be buried by the Church.
> >
> >George Fulton
David
Thanks for the reply. I took another look at the records, and the actual language varies slightly from one record to another. I may have copied the phrase incorrectly. The whole phrase most often is something like "di sepultura eccca [note: there are 3 c's in the abbreviation] con entierro menor en fabrica seis pesos seis reales". This particular record is on image 287, Asientos Defunciones 1785/98, and is the record for Bernardo Francisco Padilla.
The peso, in the 18th century, was a large silver coin comprised of 8 reales (so-called "piece of eight"; our dollar is based on this coin). Six pesos 6 reales seems to be a significant amount of money, although I have nothing on which to base the purchasing power of the peso.
As I recall, one of the things that drove Benito Juarez's reforms concerning the Church in 1857 were the expenses associated with the sacraments.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
George,
I discussed "de limosna" with my husband, and he told me about some of the reasons for the Protestant Reformation in Europe. One was "simony", the practice of "selling tickets" out of purgatory to insure Heaven. Also, dukes could even buy the Papacy without even having been priests first. Ex-communication was also a threat held over the heads of people who opposed certain practices. People felt the Church really could condemn your soul to purgatory and brand you an infidel.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gpf13@aol.com
> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 17:04:34 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology
>
> David
>
> Thanks for the reply. I took another look at the records, and the actual language varies slightly from one record to another. I may have copied the phrase incorrectly. The whole phrase most often is something like "di sepultura eccca [note: there are 3 c's in the abbreviation] con entierro menor en fabrica seis pesos seis reales". This particular record is on image 287, Asientos Defunciones 1785/98, and is the record for Bernardo Francisco Padilla.
>
> The peso, in the 18th century, was a large silver coin comprised of 8 reales (so-called "piece of eight"; our dollar is based on this coin). Six pesos 6 reales seems to be a significant amount of money, although I have nothing on which to base the purchasing power of the peso.
>
> As I recall, one of the things that drove Benito Juarez's reforms concerning the Church in 1857 were the expenses associated with the sacraments.
>
> George Fulton
> Pleasanton, CA
To follow up on previous comments about defunciones or death records, I have been finding in Nochistlan, film # 226940 where it says and I quote, "Causo derechos a la fabrica de 3 pesos y seis reales. It was entierro humilde or humble burial but I still don't understand what it means when it says "Causo derechos a la fabrica" Does anyone out there know?
En comentarios anteriores alguien pregunto el significado de la frase "Cause derechos a la fabrica de 3 pesos y seis reales"
Gracias,
Alicia
Alicia,
I found the following definition of the phrase on p. 438 of the Real Academia's dictionary, 1956 edition: "derechos de fabrica: rentas o derechos que se cobran en las iglesias por ciertos actos, como bautizos, entieros y otros, que sirven para repararlas o para costear los gastos del culto"... Earlier in the full page discussion you see that the word "derechos" is used in the sense of a monetary entitlement. Of course you know that "causo" means that someone paid the costs. Some locations use the phrase without using "derechos" but the meaning is the same.
I hope this is helpful to you.
David Delgado
Albany, CA
-----Original Message-----
>From: alliecar@pacbell.net
>Sent: Mar 27, 2012 3:14 AM
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Burial Terminology
>
>To follow up on previous comments about defunciones or death records, I have been finding in Nochistlan, film # 226940 where it says and I quote, "Causo derechos a la fabrica de 3 pesos y seis reales. It was entierro humilde or humble burial but I still don't understand what it means when it says "Causo derechos a la fabrica" Does anyone out there know?
>
>En comentarios anteriores alguien pregunto el significado de la frase "Cause derechos a la fabrica de 3 pesos y seis reales"
>
>Gracias,
>Alicia
Thanks David for this explanation. I knew what causo meant but I just couldn't put it together with derechos de fabrica relating to the deceased at the time of the burial with a specified amount of money. So this would mean that they paid 3 pesos and 6 reales for the burial, is this correct?
Alicia
San Jose, Ca
________________________________
From: David P. Delgado
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Burial Terminology
Alicia,
I found the following definition of the phrase on p. 438 of the Real Academia's dictionary, 1956 edition: "derechos de fabrica: rentas o derechos que se cobran en las iglesias por ciertos actos, como bautizos, entieros y otros, que sirven para repararlas o para costear los gastos del culto"... Earlier in the full page discussion you see that the word "derechos" is used in the sense of a monetary entitlement. Of course you know that "causo" means that someone paid the costs. Some locations use the phrase without using "derechos" but the meaning is the same.
I hope this is helpful to you.
David Delgado
Albany, CA
-----Original Message-----
>From: alliecar@pacbell.net
>Sent: Mar 27, 2012 3:14 AM
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Burial Terminology
>
>To follow up on previous comments about defunciones or death records, I have been finding in Nochistlan, film # 226940 where it says and I quote, "Causo derechos a la fabrica de 3 pesos y seis reales. It was entierro humilde or humble burial but I still don't understand what it means when it says "Causo derechos a la fabrica" Does anyone out there know?
>
>En comentarios anteriores alguien pregunto el significado de la frase "Cause derechos a la fabrica de 3 pesos y seis reales"
>
>Gracias,
>Alicia
Yes, Alicia, they gave that amount of money to the church's fund.
David Delgado
Albany, CA
-----Original Message-----
>From: Alicia Carrillo
>Sent: Mar 27, 2012 10:38 PM
>To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
>Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Burial Terminology
>
>Thanks David for this explanation. I knew what causo meant but I just couldn't put it together with derechos de fabrica relating to the deceased at the time of the burial with a specified amount of money. So this would mean that they paid 3 pesos and 6 reales for the burial, is this correct?
>
>Alicia
>San Jose, Ca
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From: David P. Delgado
>To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 4:04 PM
>Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Burial Terminology
>
>Alicia,
>
>I found the following definition of the phrase on p. 438 of the Real Academia's dictionary, 1956 edition: "derechos de fabrica: rentas o derechos que se cobran en las iglesias por ciertos actos, como bautizos, entieros y otros, que sirven para repararlas o para costear los gastos del culto"... Earlier in the full page discussion you see that the word "derechos" is used in the sense of a monetary entitlement. Of course you know that "causo" means that someone paid the costs. Some locations use the phrase without using "derechos" but the meaning is the same.
>
>I hope this is helpful to you.
>
>David Delgado
>Albany, CA
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: alliecar@pacbell.net
>>Sent: Mar 27, 2012 3:14 AM
>>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Burial Terminology
>>
>>To follow up on previous comments about defunciones or death records, I have been finding in Nochistlan, film # 226940 where it says and I quote, "Causo derechos a la fabrica de 3 pesos y seis reales. It was entierro humilde or humble burial but I still don't understand what it means when it says "Causo derechos a la fabrica" Does anyone out there know?
>>
>>En comentarios anteriores alguien pregunto el significado de la frase "Cause derechos a la fabrica de 3 pesos y seis reales"
>>
>>Gracias,
>>Alicia
something I have found in some older burial records is a time limit of 5 years. Does that simply mean they can bury another person in that grave after 5 years? I was told in Jerez, Zac that in the old days more than one person could be buried in the same grave. The older bones were put to the foot of the grave. Did this happen anywhere else other than Jerez?
Linda in Everett
________________________________
From: "gpf13@aol.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 10:40 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Assistance with terminology
I have seen several death records from Asientos in the mid 1790s with a clause similar to "se entierro menor en fabrica de quatro pesos seis reales".
Other records are annotated "limosna," which I assume means the person was poor, and was buried without a donation or payment to the Church.
When I try a computer translation of this clause (such as with google), the result makes no sense.
Is this amount a donation, or is this what it cost to be buried by the Church.
George Fulton
¿Alguien está interesado en adquirir la colección libros de Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia de Don Mariano González-Leal?
Does anybody know how far back in time from wedding date does one have to look for a "dispensa por consanguineidad"?
I don't know how far back one has to go, bit I have certainly seen some dispensas dated a fer days AFTER the marriage actually took place.
At least this one:
-Matrimonio de Juan de Villa Rl y Maria de la Garza, españoles: 16 de agosto de 1692, Libro de la Parroquial de Monterrey
-Dispensa matrimonial de Doña Maria de la Garça (de 20 años, hija legitima del Capitan Miguel de la Garça falcon y Doña Getrudiz de Renteria, ya difuntos; A.P.: Capan. Blas de la Garça y Beatris Gonçalez) & de Juan de Villa Rl (de 28 años, hijo del Capan. Juan de Villa Real y de Juana de la Garça; A.M.: Franco. de la Garça y Juana Garcia): 20 de agosto de 1692, Monterrey, NL
Victoriano Navarro
Thank you Victoriano
Yours and Claudias answer to the other similar question are very revealing. The possibility of the dispensa being dated after the wedding didn't cross my mind. This makes it a greater challenge. I was hoping to find more information about my great grandmother Virginia García Camarena of whom I can't find anything in FamilySearch. I've been reading church books of her approximate birth year, but this takes a long time. That year in particular is even difficult to read (handwriting style!)
Belinda Alvarez
Hi,
I am afraid he is not the person you are looking for.
This is my proposal for the transcription of the record:
311 Tepatitlan Dn Ygnacio Romero español adulto
En esta santa Iglesia parroquial de Tepatitlán en tres de Julio de mil setecientos ochenta y seis años yo el Bachiller Don José Gabriel Medrano como teniente de cura di sepultura eclesiástica con entierro mayor, cruz alta, ciriales, capa, vigilia y misa al día siguiente con acompañados(¿?) en tierra de quince pesos a Don Ignacio Romero español adulto hijo de Don Francisco Xavier Romero y de Doña Efigenia Aldrete (¿?) murió de Involea (embolia) en este pueblo y para que conste lo firmamos el sr cura y yo.
And a very difficult translation:
311 Tepatitlan Dn Ygnacio Romero adult Spaniard
In this holy parochial church of Tepatitlan on July the 3th, 1786, I, the bachelor Don Jose Gabriel Medrano, as lieutenant of parish priest, enterred ecclesiastically with magnificent burial, high cross, candles, cape, vespers and mass on the following day with accompanied? in earth at fifteen pesos (fee) to Don Ignacio Romero, adult spaniard son of Don Francisco Xavier Romero and Doña Efigenia Aldrete?. Died of Involea (embolism) in this town and we hereby sign, the parish priest and I.
I think this Don Ignacio Romero was a single young man, otherwise the record would show the name of the wife.
There is an Esteban in the same page but he is a little boy and not a Romero.
Good luck .
Jorge Elias
Miami, FL
Thank you so much, Jorge, for your fine translation. You are correct in stating that is not my grandfather many times removed. Though this person may be related, I don't know how. I will continue paging through the records looking for Joaquin Esteban Romero y Chavez. I have many of his children and their wives recorded and the family is growing. The Romero family has been in Tepatitlan since my GGGG Grandfather Joaquin Esteban Romero. I haven't found where he came from or when, but I'm sure one of these days, I will. Especially with the help of our friends at NuestrosRanchos.
I plan on using your translation to help me "read" through the death records as they mostly follow the same pattern. I'll bet the record keepers were happy when rubber stamps were invented so they could stamp out the boilerplate and simply fill in the blanks.
Thank you again for your help.
Linda Romero
Researching: Romero, Romero y Chavez, de la Torre, Pena, Camarena, Gutierrez, Padilla, Gomez Hurtado de Mendoza
Linda,
I've seen your Geneanet page but it does not mention the godparents and
witnesses or ranches of the births took place. No links are available to
the original documents either. If you were to add that info I could try to
find something for you. You might also add your tree to miparentela.com and
genoom.com. if you haven't already, to see if you can find a match in those
trees. They use better algorithms than Ancestry because they use the
parents and childrens' names as well as dates. They are also used by people
from around the world. Ancestry only uses names so a homonym from the 18th
century could show as a match for someone in the 1930 U.S. census which is
impossible and is focused on U.S. and northern European databases.
Armando
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:03 PM, wrote:
> Thank you so much, Jorge, for your fine translation. You are correct in
> stating that is not my grandfather many times removed. Though this person
> may be related, I don't know how. I will continue paging through the
> records looking for Joaquin Esteban Romero y Chavez. I have many of his
> children and their wives recorded and the family is growing. The Romero
> family has been in Tepatitlan since my GGGG Grandfather Joaquin Esteban
> Romero. I haven't found where he came from or when, but I'm sure one of
> these days, I will. Especially with the help of our friends at
> NuestrosRanchos.
>
> I plan on using your translation to help me "read" through the death
> records as they mostly follow the same pattern. I'll bet the record
> keepers were happy when rubber stamps were invented so they could stamp out
> the boilerplate and simply fill in the blanks.
>
> Thank you again for your help.
>
> Linda Romero
>
> Researching: Romero, Romero y Chavez, de la Torre, Pena, Camarena,
> Gutierrez, Padilla, Gomez Hurtado de Mendoza
I have looked at hundreds (maybe a thousand by now) of marriage dispensations in Guadalajara and can add that the vast majority of them were executed about three to five weeks before the marriage too
Thanks for that information Claudia. I have been wondering where exactly to look for my ancestor's dispensa. I have to admit, I tried looking for it last month, but gave up due to time limits. I'm looking for a dispensa in 1835, but I know your not quite there yet. I may just wait for you! Haha. The work your doing is SO appreciated I'm sure! Michael D. Castro
Hola,
Alguien me podría indicar si existen registros on line de los miembros de las iglesias cristianas no católicas en Zacatecas a principios del siglo XX o entre 1890 y 1940.?
My name is Yvonne Medina and I have been working on my family tree for several years. I have run into a block wall with the research on my Medina line.
Yvonne, I have found some of my missing MEDINA family listed or entered as MERINO, and vice versa, MERINO as MEDINA. May I suggest you try both spellings?
Gloria Delgado
YVONNE MEDINA
Thank you Gloria I will
Mr Walker
I have attempted to find a death record for one of my relatives that you had on the ancestral chart but am unable to locate it
The death record is on JOSE JUAN RODRIGUEZ REYES - D/ OCT 21 1934 in Cameron, Texas and buried in Rio Hondo, Texas.
Help !!!
Y Medina
Yvonne,
At the moment, I haven't been able to find any more on your
Great-grandfather's lines.
But have you ever done much research on your great-grandmother's (Maria
Concepcion) lines?
thanks,
Jonathan Walker
YVONNE MEDINA
Thank you for your response. Yes I have. Her parents were Teodoro Rodriguez b in Aguascalientes and Felipa Reyes b/ aug 26,1848. They were married July 10,1865.
Parents of Felipa Reyes were Alejo Ryes and Manuela Bramasco married March 7,1842
Parents of Teodor Rodriguez were Francisco Rodriguez and Juana Rodriguez
Are you interested in that line ?
Yvonne,
Yesterday, after I read your email about needing help from the group. I
took a look at your family tree, and tried to find more on your Medina
line. I wasn't able to find any more on the Medina line except for
christening and marriage records for the individuals that you have already
identified. But I was able to add to some of your other lines, such as the
Reyes line.
So in a sense, my only interest in your family at this time is to try and
help you.
I am including a Ancestry chart that starts with your grandfather and goes
back 7 generations. I hope that it can help you in your research. If you
would like to entire file, let me know and I can send it to you.
thanks,
Jonathan Walker
Ahnentafel Chart for Celso MEDINA RODRIGUEZ-1
First Generation
1. *Celso MEDINA RODRIGUEZ*-1 was born on 10 Apr 1895 in Juchipila,
Zacatecas, Mexico. He was christened on 16 Apr 1895 in San Francisco,
Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico. He died on 26 Aug 1998 in San Juan
Capistrano, Orange, California, United States.
Second Generation
2. *Victoriano MEDINA GARCIA*-2 was born about 1850. He died in 1933 in
Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico. Victoriano married (MRIN:1) Maria Concepcion
RODRIGUEZ REYES-3 on 1 Jun 1889 in Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico.
3. *Maria Concepcion RODRIGUEZ REYES*-3 was born in Juchipila,
Zacatecas, Mexico. She was christened on 7 May 1869 in Santa Maria
Mecatabasco, Villa del Refugio, Zacatecas, Mexico.
They had the following children.
M i. *José Leonides Ma. Teodora MEDINA
RODRIGUEZ*-26 was christened on 13 Aug 1894 in San Francisco, Juchipila,
Zacatecas, Mexico.
M ii. *Jose Tiburcio MEDINA RODRIGUEZ*-25
was christened on 13 Aug 1894 in San Francisco, Juchipila, Zacatecas,
Mexico.
+ 1 M iii. *Celso MEDINA RODRIGUEZ*-1 was born on
10 Apr 1895. He died on 26 Aug 1998.
M iv. *J. Rafael MEDINA RODRIGUEZ*-24 was
christened on 17 Nov 1896 in San Francisco, Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico.
M v. *J. Fidencio MEDINA RODRIGUEZ*-23 was
christened on 16 Mar 1899 in San Francisco, Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico.
F vi. *Ma. Refugio MEDINA RODRIGUEZ*-21
was christened on 3 Jul 1901 in San Francisco, Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico.
F vii. *Maria MEDINA RODRIGUEZ*-22 was
christened on 20 Jan 1904 in San Francisco, Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico.
F viii. *Maria Eduvigues MEDINA RODRIGUEZ*-20
was christened on 20 Mar 1906 in Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico.
Third Generation
4. *Marcelino MEDINA LUNA*-4 was born about 1830. Marcelino married
(MRIN:2) Francisca GARCIA SANTIAGO-5.
5. *Francisca GARCIA SANTIAGO*-5.
They had the following children.
+ 2 M i. *Victoriano MEDINA GARCIA*-2 was born
about 1850. He died in 1933.
F ii. *Maria Teresa MEDINA GARCIA*-14 was
born on 2 Sep 1853 in Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico. She was christened on 5
Sep 1853 in San Francisco, Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico.
F iii. *Juana MEDINA GARCIA*-8.
M iv. *Jose Marcelino MEDINA GARCIA*-9 was
born on 26 Apr 1872. He was christened on 30 Apr 1872 in Juchipila,
Zacatecas, Mexico.
M v. *Jose Lorenzo MEDINA GARCIA*-10.
F vi. *Cayetana MEDINA GARCIA*-11.
F vii. *Faustina MEDINA GARCIA*-12.
F viii. *Apolonia MEDINA GARCIA*-13.
6. *Teodoro RODRIGUEZ*-27 was born about 1838 in Mexico. Teodoro
married (MRIN:7) Felipa REYES-28 on 10 Jul 1865 in Santa Maria Mecatabasco,
Villa del Refugio, Zacatecas, Mexico.
7. *Felipa REYES*-28 was christened on 26 Aug 1848 in San José, El
Llano, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 3 F i. *Maria Concepcion RODRIGUEZ REYES*-3
was christened on 7 May 1869.
M ii. *Jose Pedro RODRIGUES REYES*-32 was
christened on 5 Aug 1872 in Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa del Refugio,
Zacatecas, Mexico.
M iii. *Jose Juan RODRIGUEZ REYES*-29 was
christened on 20 Dec 1874 in Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa del Refugio,
Zacatecas, Mexico. He died on 21 Oct 1935 in Cameron, Texas, United States.
He was buried in Rio Hondo, Texas, United States.
F iv. *Juana RODRIGUEZ REYES*-31 was
christened on 24 Jul 1866 in Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa del Refugio,
Zacatecas, Mexico.
F v. *Micaela RODRIGUEZ REYES*-33 was
christened on 14 Feb 1888 in Tabasco, Zacatecas, Mexico.
M vi. *Pablo RODRIGUEZ REYES*-34 was
christened on 27 Feb 1885 in Tabasco, Zacatecas, Mexico.
Fourth Generation
8. *Juan Jose MEDINA*-15. Juan married (MRIN:4) Ysidra LUNA
RUBALCAVA-16.
9. *Ysidra LUNA RUBALCAVA*-16.
They had the following children.
+ 4 M i. *Marcelino MEDINA LUNA*-4 was born
about 1830.
10. *Bonifacio GARCIA*-6 was born in 1791 in Juchipila, Zacatecas,
Mexico. He was christened in 1795 in Juchipila, Juchipila, Zacatecas,
Mexico. He died after 1880 in Juchipila, Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico. He
was buried in 1890 in Juchipila, Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico. Bonifacio
married (MRIN:3) Catarina DE SANTIAGO-7 on 7 May 1817 in Moyahua,
Zacatecas, Mexico.
11. *Catarina DE SANTIAGO*-7 was born in 1803 in Villanueva, Zacatecas,
Mexico. She was christened in 1798 in Juchipila, Juchipila, Zacatecas,
Mexico. She died after 1880 in Juchipila, Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico. She
was buried in 1880 in Juchipila, Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 5 F i. *Francisca GARCIA SANTIAGO*-5.
F ii. *Mateana GARCIA SANTIAGO*-43 was
born about 1845.
F iii. *Maria Nazaria GARCIA SANTIAGO*-45
was born on 20 Jul 1822 in Moyahua, Zacatecas, Mexico. She was christened
on 1 Aug 1822 in Santiago Apostol, Moyahua de Estrada, Zacatecas, Mexico.
F iv. *Maria Gregoria GARCIA SANTIAGO*-50
was christened on 29 Nov 1824 in Santiago Apostol, Moyahua de Estrada,
Zacatecas, Mexico.
F v. *Marciana GARCIA*-51.
F vi. *Anacleta GARCIA*-52 was born in
1833 in Zacatecas, Mexico.
F vii. *Quirina GARCIA*-53 was born in
Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico.
M viii. *Lusio Soria GARCIA SANTIAGO*-54 was
born in 1826 in Juchipila, Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico. He was christened
in 1826 in Juchipila, Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico. He died after 1900 in
Juchipila, Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico. He was buried in 1900 in
Juchipila, Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico.
12. *Francisco RODRIGUES*-35. Francisco married (MRIN:9) Juana
RODRIGUES-36.
13. *Juana RODRIGUES*-36 died before 10 Jul 1865 in Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 6 M i. *Teodoro RODRIGUEZ*-27 was born about
1838.
14. *Alejo REYES*-37 was born about 1818. He died before 10 Jul 1865 in
of Calvillo, Aguascalientes, Mexico. Alejo married (MRIN:10) Manuela
BRAMASCO-38 on 7 Mar 1842 in San Jose, Calvillo, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
15. *Manuela BRAMASCO*-38 was born about 1824. She died before 10 Jul
1865 in of Calvillo, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 7 F i. *Felipa REYES*-28 was christened on
26 Aug 1848.
M ii. *Macsimo REYES BRAMASCO*-58 was
christened on 16 May 1846 in San José, El Llano, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
F iii. *Ramona REYES BRAMASCO*-59 was
christened on 3 Mar 1844 in San José, El Llano, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
F iv. *Amada REYES BRAMASCO*-60 was
christened on 15 Sep 1850 in San José, El Llano, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
Fifth Generation
18. *Manuel DE LUNA*-17. Manuel married (MRIN:5) Ana Maria RUBALCAVA-18.
19. *Ana Maria RUBALCAVA*-18.
They had the following children.
+ 9 F i. *Ysidra LUNA RUBALCAVA*-16.
20. *Marciano GARCIA*-46. Marciano married (MRIN:16) Manuela DEGADILLO-47.
21. *Manuela DEGADILLO*-47.
They had the following children.
+ 10 M i. *Bonifacio GARCIA*-6 was born in 1791.
He died after 1880.
22. *Felipe DE SANTIAGO*-48. Felipe married (MRIN:17) Candelaria
ALVAREZ-49.
23. *Candelaria ALVAREZ*-49.
They had the following children.
+ 11 F i. *Catarina DE SANTIAGO*-7 was born in
1803. She died after 1880.
M ii. *Gregorio DE SANTIAGO*-68.
M iii. *Ygnacio DE SANTIAGO*-69.
28. *Jose Maria REYES*-62. Jose married (MRIN:18) Maria de la Cruz PEREZ
GONZALEZ-63 on 2 Jul 1815 in San Jose, Calvillo, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
29. *Maria de la Cruz PEREZ GONZALEZ*-63 was christened on 16 Sep 1792 in
San Jose, Calvillo, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 14 M i. *Alejo REYES*-37 was born about 1818. He
died before 10 Jul 1865.
30. *Jose Ypolito Claro Bramasco RODRIGUES*-64 was christened on 18 Aug
1793 in Santa María, Valparaíso, Zacatecas, Mexico. Jose married (MRIN:19)
Maria Ageda MENDEZ-65 on 26 May 1821 in Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa del
Refugio, Zacatecas, Mexico.
31. *Maria Ageda MENDEZ*-65.
They had the following children.
+ 15 F i. *Manuela BRAMASCO*-38 was born about
1824. She died before 10 Jul 1865.
F ii. *Maria Primitiba Bramasco MENDES*-82
was christened on 11 Oct 1827 in San José, El Llano, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
F iii. *Juliana BRAMASCO*-83 was born
about 1822 in Tabasco, Zacatecas, Mexico. She was christened on 22 Feb 1823
in Santa María, Valparaíso, Zacatecas, Mexico. She died about 1900 in
Tabasco, Zacatecas, Mexico.
Sixth Generation
56. *Ylariio REYES*-92. Ylariio married (MRIN:35) Javiera AGUILAR-102.
57. *Javiera AGUILAR*-102.
They had the following children.
+ 28 M i. *Jose Maria REYES*-62.
58. *Trinidad PEREZ*-103 was born in Paredes, San José de Gracia,
Aguascalientes, Mexico. He died in Mexico. Trinidad married (MRIN:36)
Dorotea GONZALEZ-104 on 19 Nov 1780 in San Jose de Garcia, Rincon de Romos,
Aguascalientes, Mexico.
59. *Dorotea GONZALEZ*-104 was born in Paredes, San José de Gracia,
Aguascalientes, Mexico. She died in Mexico.
They had the following children.
F i. *Maria Guadalupe PERES GONZALES*-105
was christened on 16 Dec 1787 in San Jose de Garcia, Rincon de Romos,
Aguascalientes, Mexico.
+ 29 F ii. *Maria de la Cruz PEREZ GONZALEZ*-63
was christened on 16 Sep 1792.
M iii. *Juan Jose Dario PERES GONSALES*-108
was born on 12 Jan 1802. He was christened on 17 Jan 1802 in San Jose,
Calvillo, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
M iv. *Jose Antonio Brigido PERES GONZALES*-107
was christened on 13 Oct 1806 in San Jose, Calvillo, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
F v. *Maria Secundina PERES GONZALES*-106
was christened on 3 Jul 1781 in San Jose de Garcia, Rincon de Romos,
Aguascalientes, Mexico.
F vi. *Lorensa PERES*-109 was born in
Santos, Calvillo, Aguascalientes, Mexico. She died after 1839.
60. *Julian BRAMASCO*-98. Julian married (MRIN:33) Juana Maria
RODRIGUES-99.
61. *Juana Maria RODRIGUES*-99.
They had the following children.
+ 30 M i. *Jose Ypolito Claro Bramasco RODRIGUES*-64
was christened on 18 Aug 1793.
62. *Martin MENDEZ*-100. Martin married (MRIN:34) Juana DE DIOS-101.
63. *Juana DE DIOS*-101.
They had the following children.
+ 31 F i. *Maria Ageda MENDEZ*-65.
Seventh Generation
116. *Miguel PERES*-90 died in Mexico. Miguel married (MRIN:37) Maria
Placida de los Dolores-91.
117. *Maria Placida de los Dolores*-91 died in Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 58 M i. *Trinidad PEREZ*-103.
F ii. *Petra Juliana PERES*-112 was
christened on 18 Mar 1752 in El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
118. *Miguel Antonio GONZALES*-110 died in Mexico. Miguel married (MRIN:38)
Maria Concepcion ROZALES-111.
119. *Maria Concepcion ROZALES*-111 died in Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 59 F i. *Dorotea GONZALEZ*-104.
YVONNE MEDINA
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT! Yes if you could send me the file it would be deeply appreciated. There was info on that really help fill in some blanks - Yes by all means send me the file.
I hope someone else out there reads what you posted and hopefully is researching the same line - that would be awesome.
Please keep your eyes open for the Medina's. I am at such a loss because I have hit a brickwall.
Again Thank you
Y Medina
EMAIL: OCBONE@SBCGLOBAL.NET
Jonathan
You are so helpful!!
Mickey
In a message dated 4/18/2012 8:18:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
mexicanfhr@gmail.com writes:
Yvonne,
Yesterday, after I read your email about needing help from the group. I
took a look at your family tree, and tried to find more on your Medina
line. I wasn't able to find any more on the Medina line except for
christening and marriage records for the individuals that you have already
identified. But I was able to add to some of your other lines, such as the
Reyes line.
So in a sense, my only interest in your family at this time is to try and
help you.
I am including a Ancestry chart that starts with your grandfather and goes
back 7 generations. I hope that it can help you in your research. If you
would like to entire file, let me know and I can send it to you.
thanks,
Jonathan Walker
Ahnentafel Chart for Celso MEDINA RODRIGUEZ-1
First Generation
1. *Celso MEDINA RODRIGUEZ*-1 was born on 10 Apr 1895 in Juchipila,
Zacatecas, Mexico. He was christened on 16 Apr 1895 in San Francisco,
Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico. He died on 26 Aug 1998 in San Juan
Capistrano, Orange, California, United States.
Second Generation
2. *Victoriano MEDINA GARCIA*-2 was born about 1850. He died in 1933 in
Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico. Victoriano married (MRIN:1) Maria Concepcion
RODRIGUEZ REYES-3 on 1 Jun 1889 in Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico.
3. *Maria Concepcion RODRIGUEZ REYES*-3 was born in Juchipila,
Zacatecas, Mexico. She was christened on 7 May 1869 in Santa Maria
Mecatabasco, Villa del Refugio, Zacatecas, Mexico.
They had the following children.
M i. *José Leonides Ma. Teodora MEDINA
RODRIGUEZ*-26 was christened on 13 Aug 1894 in San Francisco, Juchipila,
Zacatecas, Mexico.
M ii. *Jose Tiburcio MEDINA RODRIGUEZ*-25
was christened on 13 Aug 1894 in San Francisco, Juchipila, Zacatecas,
Mexico.
+ 1 M iii. *Celso MEDINA RODRIGUEZ*-1 was born on
10 Apr 1895. He died on 26 Aug 1998.
M iv. *J. Rafael MEDINA RODRIGUEZ*-24 was
christened on 17 Nov 1896 in San Francisco, Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico.
M v. *J. Fidencio MEDINA RODRIGUEZ*-23 was
christened on 16 Mar 1899 in San Francisco, Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico.
F vi. *Ma. Refugio MEDINA RODRIGUEZ*-21
was christened on 3 Jul 1901 in San Francisco, Juchipila, Zacatecas,
Mexico.
F vii. *Maria MEDINA RODRIGUEZ*-22 was
christened on 20 Jan 1904 in San Francisco, Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico.
F viii. *Maria Eduvigues MEDINA RODRIGUEZ*-20
was christened on 20 Mar 1906 in Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico.
Third Generation
4. *Marcelino MEDINA LUNA*-4 was born about 1830. Marcelino married
(MRIN:2) Francisca GARCIA SANTIAGO-5.
5. *Francisca GARCIA SANTIAGO*-5.
They had the following children.
+ 2 M i. *Victoriano MEDINA GARCIA*-2 was born
about 1850. He died in 1933.
F ii. *Maria Teresa MEDINA GARCIA*-14 was
born on 2 Sep 1853 in Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico. She was christened on 5
Sep 1853 in San Francisco, Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico.
F iii. *Juana MEDINA GARCIA*-8.
M iv. *Jose Marcelino MEDINA GARCIA*-9 was
born on 26 Apr 1872. He was christened on 30 Apr 1872 in Juchipila,
Zacatecas, Mexico.
M v. *Jose Lorenzo MEDINA GARCIA*-10.
F vi. *Cayetana MEDINA GARCIA*-11.
F vii. *Faustina MEDINA GARCIA*-12.
F viii. *Apolonia MEDINA GARCIA*-13.
6. *Teodoro RODRIGUEZ*-27 was born about 1838 in Mexico. Teodoro
married (MRIN:7) Felipa REYES-28 on 10 Jul 1865 in Santa Maria Mecatabasco,
Villa del Refugio, Zacatecas, Mexico.
7. *Felipa REYES*-28 was christened on 26 Aug 1848 in San José, El
Llano, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 3 F i. *Maria Concepcion RODRIGUEZ REYES*-3
was christened on 7 May 1869.
M ii. *Jose Pedro RODRIGUES REYES*-32 was
christened on 5 Aug 1872 in Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa del Refugio,
Zacatecas, Mexico.
M iii. *Jose Juan RODRIGUEZ REYES*-29 was
christened on 20 Dec 1874 in Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa del Refugio,
Zacatecas, Mexico. He died on 21 Oct 1935 in Cameron, Texas, United States.
He was buried in Rio Hondo, Texas, United States.
F iv. *Juana RODRIGUEZ REYES*-31 was
christened on 24 Jul 1866 in Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa del Refugio,
Zacatecas, Mexico.
F v. *Micaela RODRIGUEZ REYES*-33 was
christened on 14 Feb 1888 in Tabasco, Zacatecas, Mexico.
M vi. *Pablo RODRIGUEZ REYES*-34 was
christened on 27 Feb 1885 in Tabasco, Zacatecas, Mexico.
Fourth Generation
8. *Juan Jose MEDINA*-15. Juan married (MRIN:4) Ysidra LUNA
RUBALCAVA-16.
9. *Ysidra LUNA RUBALCAVA*-16.
They had the following children.
+ 4 M i. *Marcelino MEDINA LUNA*-4 was born
about 1830.
10. *Bonifacio GARCIA*-6 was born in 1791 in Juchipila, Zacatecas,
Mexico. He was christened in 1795 in Juchipila, Juchipila, Zacatecas,
Mexico. He died after 1880 in Juchipila, Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico. He
was buried in 1890 in Juchipila, Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico. Bonifacio
married (MRIN:3) Catarina DE SANTIAGO-7 on 7 May 1817 in Moyahua,
Zacatecas, Mexico.
11. *Catarina DE SANTIAGO*-7 was born in 1803 in Villanueva, Zacatecas,
Mexico. She was christened in 1798 in Juchipila, Juchipila, Zacatecas,
Mexico. She died after 1880 in Juchipila, Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico. She
was buried in 1880 in Juchipila, Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 5 F i. *Francisca GARCIA SANTIAGO*-5.
F ii. *Mateana GARCIA SANTIAGO*-43 was
born about 1845.
F iii. *Maria Nazaria GARCIA SANTIAGO*-45
was born on 20 Jul 1822 in Moyahua, Zacatecas, Mexico. She was christened
on 1 Aug 1822 in Santiago Apostol, Moyahua de Estrada, Zacatecas, Mexico.
F iv. *Maria Gregoria GARCIA SANTIAGO*-50
was christened on 29 Nov 1824 in Santiago Apostol, Moyahua de Estrada,
Zacatecas, Mexico.
F v. *Marciana GARCIA*-51.
F vi. *Anacleta GARCIA*-52 was born in
1833 in Zacatecas, Mexico.
F vii. *Quirina GARCIA*-53 was born in
Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico.
M viii. *Lusio Soria GARCIA SANTIAGO*-54 was
born in 1826 in Juchipila, Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico. He was christened
in 1826 in Juchipila, Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico. He died after 1900 in
Juchipila, Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico. He was buried in 1900 in
Juchipila, Juchipila, Zacatecas, Mexico.
12. *Francisco RODRIGUES*-35. Francisco married (MRIN:9) Juana
RODRIGUES-36.
13. *Juana RODRIGUES*-36 died before 10 Jul 1865 in Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 6 M i. *Teodoro RODRIGUEZ*-27 was born about
1838.
14. *Alejo REYES*-37 was born about 1818. He died before 10 Jul 1865 in
of Calvillo, Aguascalientes, Mexico. Alejo married (MRIN:10) Manuela
BRAMASCO-38 on 7 Mar 1842 in San Jose, Calvillo, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
15. *Manuela BRAMASCO*-38 was born about 1824. She died before 10 Jul
1865 in of Calvillo, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 7 F i. *Felipa REYES*-28 was christened on
26 Aug 1848.
M ii. *Macsimo REYES BRAMASCO*-58 was
christened on 16 May 1846 in San José, El Llano, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
F iii. *Ramona REYES BRAMASCO*-59 was
christened on 3 Mar 1844 in San José, El Llano, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
F iv. *Amada REYES BRAMASCO*-60 was
christened on 15 Sep 1850 in San José, El Llano, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
Fifth Generation
18. *Manuel DE LUNA*-17. Manuel married (MRIN:5) Ana Maria RUBALCAVA-18.
19. *Ana Maria RUBALCAVA*-18.
They had the following children.
+ 9 F i. *Ysidra LUNA RUBALCAVA*-16.
20. *Marciano GARCIA*-46. Marciano married (MRIN:16) Manuela
DEGADILLO-47.
21. *Manuela DEGADILLO*-47.
They had the following children.
+ 10 M i. *Bonifacio GARCIA*-6 was born in 1791.
He died after 1880.
22. *Felipe DE SANTIAGO*-48. Felipe married (MRIN:17) Candelaria
ALVAREZ-49.
23. *Candelaria ALVAREZ*-49.
They had the following children.
+ 11 F i. *Catarina DE SANTIAGO*-7 was born in
1803. She died after 1880.
M ii. *Gregorio DE SANTIAGO*-68.
M iii. *Ygnacio DE SANTIAGO*-69.
28. *Jose Maria REYES*-62. Jose married (MRIN:18) Maria de la Cruz PEREZ
GONZALEZ-63 on 2 Jul 1815 in San Jose, Calvillo, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
29. *Maria de la Cruz PEREZ GONZALEZ*-63 was christened on 16 Sep 1792 in
San Jose, Calvillo, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 14 M i. *Alejo REYES*-37 was born about 1818.
He
died before 10 Jul 1865.
30. *Jose Ypolito Claro Bramasco RODRIGUES*-64 was christened on 18 Aug
1793 in Santa María, Valparaíso, Zacatecas, Mexico. Jose married (MRIN:19)
Maria Ageda MENDEZ-65 on 26 May 1821 in Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa del
Refugio, Zacatecas, Mexico.
31. *Maria Ageda MENDEZ*-65.
They had the following children.
+ 15 F i. *Manuela BRAMASCO*-38 was born about
1824. She died before 10 Jul 1865.
F ii. *Maria Primitiba Bramasco MENDES*-82
was christened on 11 Oct 1827 in San José, El Llano, Aguascalientes,
Mexico.
F iii. *Juliana BRAMASCO*-83 was born
about 1822 in Tabasco, Zacatecas, Mexico. She was christened on 22 Feb 1823
in Santa María, Valparaíso, Zacatecas, Mexico. She died about 1900 in
Tabasco, Zacatecas, Mexico.
Sixth Generation
56. *Ylariio REYES*-92. Ylariio married (MRIN:35) Javiera AGUILAR-102.
57. *Javiera AGUILAR*-102.
They had the following children.
+ 28 M i. *Jose Maria REYES*-62.
58. *Trinidad PEREZ*-103 was born in Paredes, San José de Gracia,
Aguascalientes, Mexico. He died in Mexico. Trinidad married (MRIN:36)
Dorotea GONZALEZ-104 on 19 Nov 1780 in San Jose de Garcia, Rincon de Romos,
Aguascalientes, Mexico.
59. *Dorotea GONZALEZ*-104 was born in Paredes, San José de Gracia,
Aguascalientes, Mexico. She died in Mexico.
They had the following children.
F i. *Maria Guadalupe PERES GONZALES*-105
was christened on 16 Dec 1787 in San Jose de Garcia, Rincon de Romos,
Aguascalientes, Mexico.
+ 29 F ii. *Maria de la Cruz PEREZ GONZALEZ*-63
was christened on 16 Sep 1792.
M iii. *Juan Jose Dario PERES GONSALES*-108
was born on 12 Jan 1802. He was christened on 17 Jan 1802 in San Jose,
Calvillo, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
M iv. *Jose Antonio Brigido PERES GONZALES*-107
was christened on 13 Oct 1806 in San Jose, Calvillo, Aguascalientes,
Mexico.
F v. *Maria Secundina PERES GONZALES*-106
was christened on 3 Jul 1781 in San Jose de Garcia, Rincon de Romos,
Aguascalientes, Mexico.
F vi. *Lorensa PERES*-109 was born in
Santos, Calvillo, Aguascalientes, Mexico. She died after 1839.
60. *Julian BRAMASCO*-98. Julian married (MRIN:33) Juana Maria
RODRIGUES-99.
61. *Juana Maria RODRIGUES*-99.
They had the following children.
+ 30 M i. *Jose Ypolito Claro Bramasco RODRIGUES*-64
was christened on 18 Aug 1793.
62. *Martin MENDEZ*-100. Martin married (MRIN:34) Juana DE DIOS-101.
63. *Juana DE DIOS*-101.
They had the following children.
+ 31 F i. *Maria Ageda MENDEZ*-65.
Seventh Generation
116. *Miguel PERES*-90 died in Mexico. Miguel married (MRIN:37) Maria
Placida de los Dolores-91.
117. *Maria Placida de los Dolores*-91 died in Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 58 M i. *Trinidad PEREZ*-103.
F ii. *Petra Juliana PERES*-112 was
christened on 18 Mar 1752 in El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
118. *Miguel Antonio GONZALES*-110 died in Mexico. Miguel married (MRIN:38)
Maria Concepcion ROZALES-111.
119. *Maria Concepcion ROZALES*-111 died in Mexico.
They had the following children.
+ 59 F i. *Dorotea GONZALEZ*-104.
I have been trying to find my gg grandfather's Luna line for a very long
time - I finally made a discovery - my ggg grandfather's name was Jose
Nicomedes Luna (born 1814) at the Rancho del Terre
Esperanza....congratulations on finding your ancestors!!!
I'm exuberant with joy for you, this was evident in my
telephone call to you. You are such a beautiful, extraordinary,
accomplished lady.
Joseph, thank you for your vision of establishing the Rancho's
forum, and bringing lost families together. Esperanza and I
have been communicating since the days of your Yahoo's Group,
and we share many common ancestors. Gracias.
Helyn
________________________________
From: "Latina1955@aol.com"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Rancho del Terrero and Luna line discovery.
I have been trying to find my gg grandfather's Luna line for a very long
time - I finally made a discovery - my ggg grandfather's name was Jose
Nicomedes Luna (born 1814) at the Rancho del Terrero, which is south of
Tepechitlan. To the north is Cicacalco and just north of that is Tlaltenango!
I was able to obtain my ggg grandfather's parents and their parents -- so
off I go....
Esperanza - Chicagoland area
Helyn and Esperanza,
Wonderful news when families are reunited after many years of taking a different path from a common ancestor...It's truly amazing!
Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Misty"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 8:17:27 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Rancho del Terrero and Luna line discovery.
Esperanza....congratulations on finding your ancestors!!!
I'm exuberant with joy for you, this was evident in my
telephone call to you. You are such a beautiful, extraordinary,
accomplished lady.
Joseph, thank you for your vision of establishing the Rancho's
forum, and bringing lost families together. Esperanza and I
have been communicating since the days of your Yahoo's Group,
and we share many common ancestors. Gracias.
Helyn
________________________________
From: "Latina1955@aol.com"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Rancho del Terrero and Luna line discovery.
I have been trying to find my gg grandfather's Luna line for a very long
time - I finally made a discovery - my ggg grandfather's name was Jose
Nicomedes Luna (born 1814) at the Rancho del Terrero, which is south of
Tepechitlan. To the north is Cicacalco and just north of that is Tlaltenango!
I was able to obtain my ggg grandfather's parents and their parents -- so
off I go....
Esperanza - Chicagoland area
Yeeah! I'm happy for you, Hope I have the same good luck with my elusive GGrandfather Prudencio Olmos.
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca
________________________________
From: "Latina1955@aol.com"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Rancho del Terrero and Luna line discovery.
I have been trying to find my gg grandfather's Luna line for a very long
time - I finally made a discovery - my ggg grandfather's name was Jose
Nicomedes Luna (born 1814) at the Rancho del Terrero, which is south of
Tepechitlan. To the north is Cicacalco and just north of that is Tlaltenango!
I was able to obtain my ggg grandfather's parents and their parents -- so
off I go....
Esperanza - Chicagoland area
Hello! I'm having a heck of a time finding a birth and death date for Arcadio Amezcua, son of Jose Apolonio Trinidad Amezcua-Gutierrez and Maria Lorensa Carmen Torres-Lopez.. He and his entire fam
Hi Cammi, the marriage record says he is 38. Sometimes you just don't find them for whatever reason.. Not sure if you have the marriage information record, it doesn't offer anything new~
marriage information recorded 30 Aug 1873 in Tamazula, Jalisco
Arcadio Amescua single from Tamazula age 38
parents: Trinidad Amescua and Maria Torres both living
with: Soledad Ochoa single from Tamazula age 17
parents; Jose Maria Ochoa living and Ygnacia Espinosa deceased
no blood relationship
witness: Juan Valencia from Tamazula widower age 50
witness. Gregorio Reyna from Tamazula married age 43
witness: Jesus Lopez from Tamazula married age 25
source: 0226053 film
page 255 Family search online pilot program
Linda.
________________________________
From: Cammi Amezcua
To: "research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2012 10:48 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Arcadio Amezcua birth and death record missing!!!
Hello! I'm having a heck of a time finding a birth and death date for Arcadio Amezcua, son of Jose Apolonio Trinidad Amezcua-Gutierrez and Maria Lorensa Carmen Torres-Lopez.. He and his entire family (parents, siblings, wife and children) were born and raised in Tamazula, Jalisco. I have found his marriage record to his wife Maria Soledad Ochoa-Espinosa in Oct 1873, which says he was 35 at the time. That would place him born around 1835... but I can not find any record of his birth or death in the church records.. even though everyone else he is associated with IS there! Any ideas why I can't find him? If anyone comes across any documents on him, I would love to see them.
Cammi Amezcua
Thanks Linda... I meant 38! I do have the wedding record, thanks. I just find it odd that I can find everybody else but not him... so strange. Anyways, if you ever run across it, please keep me in mind! Hope your doing well!
Have a wonderful weekend! :)
Cammi
Hola Claudia