Relation to Generals Navarro and Barragan

Friday, April 02, 2010, 1:26 PM
Joseph, thank you for helping me do my own genealogical research to find my relationship to my two great uncles: Generals Paulino Navarro Serrano, after whom the city of Autlán de la Grana was renamed Autlán de Navarro in 1939, and Marcelino García Barragán, Governor of Jalisco 1943-1947,  Secretary of Defense of Mexico, 1964-1968, when students were shot during demonstrations on the 2nd of October before the opening of the 1968 Olympics in Mexico City on October 12, 1968.
 
Ahnentafel, Generation No. 1
_____________________________________________________________
 
1 José Rafael Ramos, born February 24, 1935, 9:02 a.m. is the son of 2 José Ramos Flores and 3 Enedina Gómez Barragán in San Francisco, California. He married 4. Elsbeth Irene Foster April 18, 1963, in Berkeley, California, divorced April 18, 1983; in Monterey, California   He married 5 Yvonne June Lagrange [formerly Mrs. Roger Winton Poyner], May 22, 1983 [Religious ceremony], in San Juan Bautista, California, and June 15, 1983 [Church and Civil Ceremony], in Monterey, California.
            Children of José Rafael Ramos and Yvonne June Lagrange are:
                        Raquel Paloma Ramos, born February 7, 1985
                        Larkin Carmen Ramos, born September 4, 1986
            Children of Jose Rafael Ramos and Elsbeth Irene Foster are:
                        Sofía Magdalena Ramos, born July 21, 1965
                                   
_________________________________________________________________________
 
Ahnentafel, Generation No. 2
_________________________________________________________________________
 
2.  Jose Ramos Flores was born August 2, 1903, in Zacatecas, Zacatecas, Mexico, and died ­­­­­____ 1983 .He was the son of 6 Leonardo Ramos and 7 Leonor Flores  [Oficialia No. 01, Libro 84, Acta 00640, Fecha de Registro ,17/8/1903]
Jose Flores Ramos [José Flores Ramos on the Marriage Certificate] married Enedina Gómez, June 3, 1934 [Book 331 of Marriage Certificates, Page 558, Records of the City and County of San Francisco, State of California].
 
3. Enedina Gómez Barragán was born August 13, 1907 in Autlán de Navarro, Jalisco, [Oficialia No. 01, Libro 01, Acta 335, Folio 45427] [known as Autlán de la Grana at her birth, but renamed for her uncle, 8 General Paulino Navarro Serrano. “By decree number 4562, [of the Legislature of the State of Jalisco] published the 27 of July of 1939, the city of Autlán de la Grana would take the name of Autlán de Navarro in memory of General Navarro, native of Autlán de la Grana and teacher in this municipality, who died the 23 of December of 1923 in defense of the institutions of the Republic.”  He died attacking a machine gun nest.]
Enedina Gómez Barragán de Ramos  died  March 24, 1988, in Tijuana, Baja California, México.  She [as Enedina Gómez] married José Ramos Flores[José Flores Ramos on the Marriage Certificate] June 3, 1934 [Book 331 of Marriage Certificates, Page 558, Records of the City and County of San Francisco, State of California].
 
Children of José Ramos Flores [aka José Flores Ramos] and Enedina Gómez Barragán are:
1.      i.  José Rafael Ramos, born February 24, 1935 in San Francisco, California
ii. Gloria Diana Ramos, born June 13, 1936 in San Francisco, California
_________________________________________________________________________
Ahnentafel, Generation No. 3
­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­_________________________________________________________________________
 
6. Leonardo Ramos deHaro was born___ and died ___
7. Leonor Flores was born on ___ and died___
6. Children of  6 Leonardo Ramos and 7 Leonor Flores [10, I will augment this later after talking to my sister Gloria]
            i. Rafael
            ii. Leonor
iii. Manuela
            iv Socorro (Cuca)
                        v.
                        vi                    
                        vii.
                        viii
                        ix   José Ramos Flores, born March 24, 1903, died
                        x    María Ramos Flores
 
9.    Anselmo Gómez Bobadilla,  born April 21, 1868, died December 2, 1950.
10.  Celsa Barragán Serrano, born April 6, 1883, died December 21, 1965.
Anselmo Gómez Bobadilla [9] and Celsa Barragán Serrano [10] were married April 17, 1903.
[These dates were written on the side of a paper bag in my mother Enedina’s hand.]
 
The children of Anselmo Gómez Bobadilla and Celsa Barragán Serrano were:
            9.         i.  María?
                        ii. Ramona Gómez Barragán
                        iii. Enedina Gómez Barragan, born August 12, 1907, died March 24, 1988.
iv Domitila Gómez Barragán de Sandozequi, born May 12, 1914 in El Valle de
Banderas, Nayarit, died ___
_________________________________________________________________________
Ahnentafel, Generation No. 4.
_________________________________________________________________________
 
Paternal Great Grandparents
11. José Ramos
12. Basilia deHaro
 
13. Librado Flores
14. María [    ] Flores
 
Maternal great Grandparents
15. Rafael Barragán
16. Soledad Serrano [She may have first married Barragán and then Navarro]
 
Maternal Great Aunt: Mercedes Serrano, sister of Soledad Serrano, married Norberto Navarro and had Paulino Navarro Serrano.
 
The Children of Rafael Barragán and Soledad Serrano included.       
i.                    Celsa Barragán Serrano
 
Rafael Barragán, my maternal Great Grandfather, may have had a sister who married a Mr. Garcia and had Marcelino García Barragán
 
MY INTEREST
 
Enedina Gómez Barragán de Ramos [my mother]
Born August 13, 1907 in Autlán de Navarro, Jalisco [I have a copy of her handwritten birth certificate]
 
            Registered in Birth Certificate as
Name: Enedina Gómez Barragán
 
Parents
Father:   Anselmo Gómez Bobadilla
Mother: Celsa Barragán Serrano de Gómez
            Grandparents
 
Paternal Grandfather:    Atilano Gómez
Paternal Grandmother:   Quirina Bobadilla
 
Maternal  Grandfather: Rafael Barragán
Maternal Grandmother: Soledad Serrano
 
José Ramos Flores [my father]
Born August 2, 1903 in Zacatecas, Zacatecas [I have a copy of his birth certificate]
           
Registered in Birth Certificate as
Name: José Ramos Flores 
 
            Parents:
Father: Leonardo Ramos
Mother: Leonor Flores
 
            Grandparents
 
Paternal Grandfather: José Ramos
Paternal Grandmother: Basilia  deHaro
 
Maternal  Grandfather: Librado Flores
Maternal Grandmother: Maria Flores
 
MY INTERESTS:
I would like to trace my relationship to General Paulino Navarro Serrano. My mother referred to her “Tía Mercedes Serrano” who was the mother of General Paulino Navarro after whom the City of Autlán de la Grana was renamed.  My mother had Paulino Navarro’s Sunday hat, white with the initials “PN” in braided gold.  She also had several photographs of the general as a young man and soldier and as a general. My sister gave the hat to the museum in El Grullo, Jalisco, part of the municipality of Autlán de Navarro, where the general was born.  I attach a brief biography of General Paulino Navarro. Navarro died in a battle where he was sent under the command of General Lázaro Cárdenas, who became President of Mexico and nationalized the foreign oil interests in 1938.
 
AUTLÁN DE NAVARRO [from Official web site of the city]
“De Navarro" le fue impuesto por el Congreso del Estado el 19 de julio de 1939 en honor del maestro y general Paulino Navarro, oriundo de este municipio, quién murió el 23 de diciembre de 1923, en defensa de las instituciones de la República
 
By decree number 4562, published the 27 of July of 1939, the city of Autlán of Grana would take the name of Autlán of Navarro in memory of General Navarro, native of Autlán de la Grana and  teacher in this municipality, who died the 23 of December of 1923 in defense of the institutions of the Republic. 
 
GENERAL PAULINO NAVARRO SERRANO [from Official web site of the city of Autlán de Navarro]
Born 1892 in El Grullo, part of Autlán de Navarro
Parents
Father: Norberto Navarro
Mother Mercedes Serrano, my mother’s aunt.
 
My grandmother Celsa Barragán Serrano might have been the sister of Mercedes Serrano, both being the daughters of Soledad Serrano.  Thus Paulino Navarro would have been my mother’s cousin. What would General Paulino Navarro Serrano have been to me in relationship?
 
General Paulino Navarro Serrano (1892-1923)
Maestro y soldado de la revolución [from the Official web site of the city of Autlán de Navarro]
Hijo de Norberto Navarro y Mercedes Serrano.
Nació en Autlán en 1892 donde curso la instrucción primaria. De cuna humilde, trabajó como mozo en la casa del Dr. Alfredo Uribe donde se separó para ayudar a su hermana Lucía en sus labores como maestra en el Instituto del padre Manuel C. Silva, dedicándose los sábados y domingos a la zapatería.
Luego fue maestro en el propio instituto, pasando enseguida también como maestro a la escuela oficial de la que era directora la maestra María Mares.
Posteriormente partió a Cuautitlán, continuando en el magisterio; de ahí se trasladó a Colima, cursando la carrera de maestro normalista en la escuela “Porfirio Díaz”, donde se titula, pero estando allá, abraza la carrera de las armas, sentando plaza como pagador del regimiento.
Cuando la lucha revolucionaria se ubicó en el norte del país a Marcelino García Barragán, quien militaba en las filas de Maclovio Herrera, enviándolo al Colegio Militar. En Ciudad Juárez funge como gente del servicio aduanal y entre tanto ganaba ascensos y ya era Brigadier, siendo destinado a la ciudad de México como Comandante Militar de la Plaza.
Habiendo estallado la rebelión “delahuertista”, es enviado a Jalisco bajo las órdenes del Gral. Lázaro Cárdenas a combatir la infidencia encabezada por el Jefe de las Operaciones Militares en el Estado, Gral. Enrique Estrada.
Con una fuerza inferior numéricamente hablando, las fuerzas leales traban combate con las rebeldes al mando del general Rafael Buelna en el puertecito de Huejotitlán, cerca de Teocuitatlán, en cuya acción muere heroicamente el General Navarro, al saltar un nido de ametralladoras enemigas, el 23 de diciembre de 1923.
En su honor al haber muerto en defensa del gobierno legalmente constituido, el otrora Autlán de la Grana, desde el Decreto del Honorable Congreso del Estado de Jalisco del 19 de julio de 1939, ostenta el nombre de Autlán de Navarro.
 
[translation]
 
Teacher and soldier of the revolution
Son of Norberto Navarro and Mercedes Serrano.

Retonos Volumes I & II - for Alice Blake and Joseph de Leon

Hello Alice and Joseph. I'd like to take a minute and address your very honest question about the contents of the books by Mariano Gonzalez-Leal. Your question resonates with me because I too had the same curiosity but never bothered to ask, because when it comes to book: "Yeah, I want them even though I don't know what's inside, and I sometimes regret buying them." It's my secret addiction...

Considering that we are all at different levels of research and understanding about our genealogies, I think it's a good gesture for those who are more advanced in their studies to give more than a perfunctory answer to your question. That's what we're here for, right?

The series is a comprehensive study of the families who lived and settled the regions of Nueva Galicia. It's not specific only to Los Altos, as there are many families mentioned in the books who lived in Aguascalientes, Guadalajara, Zacatecas, etc. The first volume gives an overview of the geography, historical setting, and local culture. It has some (but not many) family trees, mostly from the 17th Century, so if you're hoping to make a connection - you should have traced some lines back at least that far.

The series is split alphabetically, and since I only have the first and second volumes, I can only attest to these two. Volume two has a total of 40 families/surnames histories (starts with ACEVES and ends with GOMEZ-HURTADO DE MENDOZA). I must admit that I found a couple of discrepancies - so a lesson learned is to always seek to double-check and confirm that the information is accurate, no matter who the author is. All and out: it is an invaluable source of information. I was able to make many discoveries that otherwise, I would not have made. The author has dedicated a lot of hard work to these books, and I can't wait to see the revised versions!

I hope this (long) description gives you a better picture.

-Claudia

Ramon Castillo y Juana Prieto de Tepechitlan y San Jose del Conde, Zac 1860

Buscando mas informacion. Ramon y Juana (casados es 1877) tuvieron a Ma. Leonarda, Ma. Refugio, Luisa y Antonio. Refugio se caso con Tirso Duran y en San Jose del Conde en 1900 tuvieron a Gregoria Duran. Por favor de contactarse conmigo a almatcss@yahoo.com si es que tiene a estas personas en su arbol.

Looking more info. Ramon & Juana (married in 1877) had Ma. Leonarda, Ma. Refugio, Luisa, & Anronio. Refugio got married to Tirso Duran and in San Jose del Conde Zacatecas, in 1990 born their doughter Gregoria. Please reach me at almatcss@yahoo.com if you have these people in your family tree. TKS.

Cristero movement in Los Altos de Jalisco

Hello -- I believe the following account refers to my great grandfather, Mariano Gutierrez, who was killed during the Cristero movement in San Miguel el Alto, Jal.

A las 11 de la mañana de este mismo día, salieron unos soldados a traer pastura al rancho Los Magueyes, a unos 3 Kms. al oriente de la población, donde encontraron al Sr. Mariano Gutiérrez, persona honrada y pacífica y sin motivo le dieron muerte, dejando huérfanos 13 hijos. [21 Nov 1927]

. . . naturally I went directly to the microfilms to view death records for this date. Unfortunately, on 22 Oct 1926, there is a page in the microfilmed book that I imagine explains why the records stopped at this point and did not commence until 1930. However, I am not able to interpret some of the words and some of the writing is not legible.

If there is an expert out in Nuestros Ranchos cyberspace who wants to take a shot at translating this document and/or providing any historical references, I would greatly appreciate it. I will send the scanned document to those that respond.

Also, for those interested in reading the diary (published in 1970 by an annonymous person), you can find it here:

http://www.sanjosedelosreynoso.net/Cristiada3.htm

Thank you, Roxanne Ocampo

Churches in Mexico

Does anyone know how I can locate a certain church in Mexico? For example, I know that my grandmothers parents were married in San Juan de los Lagos, but I do not know what church. THe document says the priest is Don Urbano Barragan Velasco, a minister is also listed as Presbitero Francisco Esquivel and a "Father Priest" Senor Cura Pantaleon Fortolero. The priest who certifed the document in 1950 is named Estaban Sanchez V. I guess I may want to search the surnames of the priests to find family members who can tell me where this church is located. Any other suggestions?

family tree for anniversary

Can anyone suggest a source for having a family tree done for display? My
brothers and I are organizing a 60th wedding anniversay party for our
parents in July and I want post one for each of them. I can search on the
internet, but thought some of you might have some suggestions from
experience. I'd appreciate any tips on this. Thanks.--Raquel

Elizalde for Amanda

Amanda,  I tried emailing to your private email but couldn't get through.  So I
hope this will do.
:) Esther

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "esther@enhanced.org"
To: amandamarycela@yahoo.com
Date: March 19, 2010 at 11:32 PM
Subject: Fwd: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Elizalde

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "esther@enhanced.org"
To: "amandamarycela@yahoo.com"
Date: March 19, 2010 at 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Elizalde

Amanda,
 
No tengo conexion con tu familia.  Lo hize for ayudarte.  Nunca he visitado
Zacatecas pues yo soy originaria de Jalisco.  Vivo en San Diego, CA.

Joce Elisalde(tambien de nombre Jose Eduardo) y Petra Banuelos(tambien llamada
Petra Maria Banuelos)tuvieron los siguientes hijos: Todos son de San Pedro,
Guadalcazar, San Luis Potosi, Mexico.

1. Jose Tiburcio Elisalde Banuelos, n. 16 de Abril 1817;
2. Jose EstanislaoElisalde Banuelos, n. 9 Mayo 1819;
3. Maria Micaela Elisalde Banuelos, n. 24 Agosto 1820;
4. Maria ApolinariaElisalde Banuelos, n. 24 Julio 1822;
5. Jose Gregorio, n. 14 Mayo 1825;
6. Ma. Nicolasa Ana Elisalde Banuelos'
7. Maria Ramona EpitacioElisalde Banuelos, n. 25 Mayo 1829;
8. Ma. YsabelElisalde Banuelos, n. 11 Julio 1835
 

Jose Gregorio Elisalde Banuelos caso con Anacleta Salas 1847-48 en
Aguascalientes. (no busque esta informacion).  Ellos tuvieron los siguientes
hijos:
 

1.  Maria Merced Eduarda Elisalde Salas, b. 13 Octubre 1848, San Pedro
Guadalcazar, San Luis Potosi [C607522 (1845-1852), serial 03046,film 0709019]

 
 
2.  Macedonia Elisalde Salas, b.(1849-1925)San Pedro Guadalcazar, San Luis
Potosi,[C607522 (1845-1852), film 0709019]caso conCarlos Buck en 1874 en
Aguascalientes(Carlos nacio 1837 y murio 22 Junio 1925);

Ellos tuvieron los siguientes hijos:

--Carlos Buck Elizalde (1866);

--Ana Buck (1875-1940);

--Josefa Luisa Buck (1878);

--Maria Aurora Barbara Buck (1882);

--Arturo Buck Elisalde (1884-1966)

 

3.  Maria Juana Paula Cilveria Elisalde Salas, n. 26 Junio 1850, San Pedro
Guadalcazar, San Luis Potosi [C607522 (1845-1852), serial 04757,film 0709019]
 

Espero esto te ayude un poco.

--Esther Jordan Lopez, esther@enhanced.org

 
 

On March 19, 2010 at 6:22 PM amandamarycela@yahoo.com wrote:

> Efectivamente, ellos son mis ancestros....y si quisiera me enviaras esa
> información.No tengo de donde sacarla, pues no vivo en Zacatecas.Muchas
> gracias de antemano. Una pregunta.....tienes conexion con ellos????
>
>  Saludos Amanda.

La Plaza de Cruz Moya, Zacatecas

Do you know in what city the Plaza de Cruz Moya might have been in 1679 in Zacatecas? I need to find out which LDS microfilms to order to try to locate records for:
Jose de Leon Brito married to Ursula Duran
Ursula Duran, daughter of Juan Juarez & Polonia Duran
Sebastiana de Leon, daughter of Joseph de Leon and Ursula Duran
Elena (mulata esclava de Jose de Leon)

Ursula Duran died on or before 1679.

Inventario
3 May 1679, Zacatecas
Jose de Leon, vecino y mercader de menudencias otorga que habiendo otorgado la cantidad de 1,200 pesos en reales a sus nietos y a Ursula Duran su mujer difunta por los que el dicho recibio de su esposa como dote, y quieriendo contraer matrimonio por segunda ves hace relacion de sus bieness en 200 pesos en diversos generos de menudencias, una mulata esclava llamada Elena, 30 pesos en una cruz de oro, 12 pesos en un plato de plata, 1,000 en dos casas bajas que tiene en la plaza de Cruz Moya y otra en la plazuela del maestro del campo.
SOURCE: A.H.E.Z., Fondo: Notarias, Notario: Felipe de Espinosa, Caja: 3, Libro: 9, Año: 1679, no. 87

31 May 1679, Zacatecas
(incomplete) ... Jose de Leon, vecino y mercader de menudencias, declara que fue casado con Ursula Duran, hija legitima de Juan Juarez, difunto, y Polonia Duran, y al tiempo que contrajo matrimonio se le otorgo dote de 1,200 pesos, tratando de casarse nuevamente, su suegra Polonia Duran le ha pedido que otorgue recaudo de la herencia que su hija le dejo a los 4 hijos procreados durante el matrimonio.
SOURCE: A.H.E.Z., Fondo: Notarias, Notario: Felipe de Espinosa, Caja: 3, Libro: 9, Año: 1679, no. 89

Testamento de Sebastiana de Leon vecina de esta ciudad de Zacatecas hija lexitima de Joseph de Leon y de Ursula Duran difunta mis padres vecinos de esta ciudad como soi.
SOURCE: A.H.E.Z., Fondo: Notarias, Notario: Laguna, Jose de la - libro 8 – 1684, pg. 433v

I found the above information at the Beyond ONMF website, Volume 8.
http://pages.prodigy.net/bluemountain1/bonmf8.htm

Stanley A Lucero
Madera, California

Gracias Daniel Del Camino

Saludos A todos los miembros de nuestros Ranchos my name is Francisco Rubio.I want to thank Daniel Del Camino for giving me information with dates of birth of my Grandfather who was born in 1850 in Calvillo ,Aguascalientes . My Grandfather Juan Antonio Rubio maried Angela Flores from Calvillo also.I did not Know what dates or where they were born until Daniel sent me this info .I want to share a rare family story , my father Jesus Rubio son of Juan Antonio Rubio was born in 1890 in La ex-Hacienda de San Pedro in Huanusco,Zacatecas.You want to guess how old I am? Well my father married my Mother Amparo Rodriguez in 1966 He was 76 years old and my mom was in her early 30's ,they had In 1967 Jose de Jesus Rubio who died of one year of age,Jose De Jesus Rubio #2 in 1969 ,Myself Francisco Rubio in 1970,and Raymond Rubio in 1972 .They had migrated to the U.S. in 1969 to Texas My Father had just retired sort of ,after working for Singer/celebrity Antonio Aguilar From Zacatecas my father Jesus Rubio worked for Antonio A. training horses to the HighSchool/Alta escuela ,from 1958-1969.We wer deported to mexico in 1977 ,landed in Piedras Negras Coahuila .Once in Mexico we met My father's side of the family The Rubios from Coahuila all the way down to Zacatecas ,nd Aguascalientes Half brothers Juan A.Rubio,in his 40's ,sisters of ours Anna rubio,Maria rubio,in their 50's plus all our nephews Jesus Rubio ,Carlos Rubio,Juan Rubio,Jose "pepe" Rubio,Susana Rubio.There was so many places we got to know and so many people my father knew that we began to learn who he was and what he had done in Aguascalientes ,And in Zacatecas .Jesus Rubio Flores died in 1984 in Dallas ,Texas .We miss him so much ,my brothers and I are in our late 30's and we have begun to do more research on our ancestors the Rubios .Daniel Mendez Del Camino if you read this will you help me with any records and documents on Juan Antio Rubio and and to anyone that has information about Rubio From Calvillo,Aguascalientes related to Juan Antonio Rubio who was born in 1850,and for Rubios from Huanusco,Zacatecas.I know that my Father was Presidente Municipal of Tabasco ,Zacatecas 1938-1939,Ilooked in the Tabasco,Zacatecas municipality presidents and the list of municipal presidents start at 1944 How can I get a document stating ny father Jesus Rubio Flores as Municipal President of Tabasco,Zacatecas in 1938-39?Thank you

Brick Walls---Research Digest, Vol 50, Issue 16

I agree that this was a great idea to pose our brick walls to those who attended the conference. As a member of the Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society, we have some of our brick walls posted on our website already.
Earlier this month, I attended the Conference, and have already benefited from this exercise. Another attendee, Jerry Munoz was able to help me with one of my brick walls. His assistance helped me greatly with my San Juan de los Lagos, Jal. del Portillo and Gallardo lines. I only hope that I can help the individual whose information I drew. I am working on it.

I look forward to attending the next conference in Southern California. I hope that Ranchos members from the south can make it happen.

Irma Gomez Gtz.
N. Calif.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:26:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: jcdl1944@hotmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] "brick walls"
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

At the Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society conference held March 6, 2010, they had a "brick wall" demo family tree with paper cut-out leaves on it. The idea was that a member could write down on a paper leaf his/her "brick wall" in his own genealogy research and perhaps someone else would choose his/her leaf and help break through it. I think it's a great concept, except that it might've been better to let any and all choose the same leaf.

My question is this: since we already experience daily with questions from various members, why couldn't each of us create a file/folder listing our own "brick walls" in it? These files could stay permanent and updated as needed.

Perhaps other members could browse through these files and find one that they could tackle and help break through it? In addition to periodic inquiries of our members, this might prove to be a good challenge for our own genalogists that love mysteries?

Just a thought.

Joseph de Leon

**********************

Matrimonio de Refugio Cortez adn Alejandra Hernandez

Ok I need to move on here. I need help finding a marriage records between

Refugio Cortez and Alejandra Hernandez. Refugio was born in 1886 in Jalisco Mexico so probably married between 1860 and 1870 in the area of Ojuelos De Jalisco Mexico....or...I need to find

"Antonio Cortez Hernandez" Birth or Christian records. Refugio Cortez and Alejandra Hernandez are Antonio's parents. Antonio had a sister named Martina Cortez Hernandez

Please help.

Trancripcion de Testamentos/ Testament Transcriptions

Antes de comenzar con el proyecto de trancripcion de los 760 Testamentos antiguos de Aguascalientes del cual les he venido hablando con anterioridad, quisiera que algunos de ustedes me dieran su opinion y ayuda para complementar la pagina donde van a ser "posteados" de modo que podamos tener en dichas paginas algunos recursos utiles para el trabajo que nos viene al caso.Ya sean diccionarios o libros, asi como ligas en linea donde podamos encontrar ayuda para transcribir de forma correcta las palabras mas usuales y las oraciones mas comunes que se pueden encontrar en dichos documentos, de este modo podamos avanzar mas rapido y eficazmente tanto los que tienen mas experiencia asi como los principiantes.
Cualquier sugerencia se les agradece.

Saludos!

Paco Romo

Before we start with the transcription project of 760 Testaments from Aguascalientes that I have been telling you guys about.
I'd like to add some helpful links to the page were the testaments will be posted.
I think it would be very useful to have some resources (whether they are on line or downloadable) on the page, so we can help ourselves with the work ahead, something like dictionaries, books and stuff that can help us translate accurately the unfamiliar words or the most typically-found sentences in such documents.

Any help would be very appreciated, I hope this project could really help some of you and the group in general

Regards

Paco Romo

Claudia Casillas.

CLAUDIA , QUE BUENO QUE HUBO ALGUIEN QUE SE PREOCUPARA POR LOS DOS IDIOMAS,

YO HABLO ESPANOL Y UN POCO DE INGLES PERO NO LO DOMINO MUCHO Y SIEMPRE QUE MIRO LOS E MAILS EN INGLES , EN OCASIONES LOS LEO PERO LA MAYORIA DEL TIEMPO LOS DESCARTO. ME GUSTA MUCHO TU IDEA Y GRACIAS POR PASARLA.

YO TENGO 46 ANOS Y VEO MUCHOS MENSAJES EN INGLES Y TAMBIEN PIENSO QUE DEBEN DE SER GENTE JOVEN TAL VEZ UNA SEGUNDA GENERACION AQUI EN ESTADOS UNIDOS. PERO TAMBIEN ME PREGUNTABA PORQUE SI SE ESTA BUSCANDO GENTE DE JALISCO , ZACATECAS  Y NO RECUERDO QUE OTRO LUGAR TODOS LOS E MAILS VIENEN EN INGLES?

BUENO EN FIN CLAUDIA OTRA VEZ GRACIAS.

TAMBIEN TE QUIERO PREGUNTAR TUS ANTEPASADOS DE DONDE SON?

YO TENGO PARIENTES CON APELLIDO CASILLAS ELLOS SON DE TEPATITLAN JALISCO.

MARTHA GOMEZ

Introduction/Surname Escatel

Hello group!!

My name is Martin Escatel and I have just recently acquired an interest in my family genealogy. I am looking for information, primarily on the family name Escatel and all secondary last names as listed. My family is primarily from Chimaltitan, Jalisco but I am aware that the family has also lived in surrounding pueblos. I am very interested in learning research techniques that will assist me in uncovering my roots. I would appreciate any assistance and guidance.

I would also like to mention a couple of highlights. I came across a record in Familysearch.org for a Louise Francoise L'Escatel born in Paris, Seine, France in 1802. (Batch C034227). There is some indication that the family name originated from France but this is the only concrete lead so far. Any suggestions to continue exploring this lead would be appreciated. Additionally, I wanted to advise that I started a Facebook family group page. So far, I have encountered 58 members that share the last name or a variation of the last name and have an interest in exploring the family lines. Unfortunately, I have not been able to tie the members to a common ancestor as it appears that we have 3-4 different family lines.

Brief summary:

Firm: Paternal Grandparents: Jose de Jesus Escatel Ramirez (b.1888) and Carlota Ramirez Rodriquez
Firm: Paternal Great-Grandparents: Felix (or Feliz) Escatel and Veneranda (or Beneranda) Ramirez (Batch: M019878)
Need to confirm: Paternal Great-Great-Grandparents: Roque Escatel and Maria Silbestra Munos (Batch: M646268)
Need to confirm: Paternal Great-Great-Great-Grandparents: Jose Maria Escatel and Marcela Losano

Surnames: Escatel or Escatell or any French variations such as L'Escatel; Ramirez, Rodriquez, Castellaño, Munos, Losano
Jalisco: Chimaltitan, Bolaños,Villaguerrero,Temastian,Totatiche, Atolinga
Ranchos: San Francisco, El Espejo, Borrotes, Cocuasco Viejo, El Chiqueguite, La laguna, San Juan de Potreros, La Ventilla, La Venta, La Cienega, Cerritos, Santa Rita, El Aguasarca.

I am very excited to be part of this group.

Thank you for your time.

Best regards,

Martin Escatel

mescatel@cox.net

Rodriguez-Aramburu & Palafox (1740s Nochistlan)

Hi everyone. I am stuck with these ancestors and wondering if any members have the same individuals listed in their databases. I suspect the Rodriguez's are Rodriguez de Frias, but have no docs to confirm.

MALE TWINS, baptized on 25 Sep 1747, in Nochistlan.
[Parents were ANTONIO RODRIGUEZ & MANUELA ARAMBURU]:
Nicolas Antonio Rodriguez
Nicolas Geronimo Rodriguez

Nicolas Antonio Rodriguez married Candida Eucebia Palafox in Nochistlan on 28 Jan 1761.

Can anyone confirm these were "de Frias'?
Does anyone know who the parents of Candida Palafox were?

I admit, I haven't seen the record yet, as I do not have access to Nochistlan microfilms.

Thanks!

Research Digest, Vol 50, Issue 4

"One My uncles has a circulatory problem that has a much higher incident rate in the jewish population.  my  in laws are from san miguel el alto and they have a skin disorder by they I mean my mother in law sister in law some of my wifes cousins and her brother get these skin discolorations, small blotches.  This is predominantly a jewish genetic disorder. There are other stories in los altos that point to a jewish influence in certain families. The lomeli romo perez and franco.
"

Hi Ricii

These are also present in mediterranean people in certain populations over all, mostly from the neolithic migrations across the planet, before any of the present religions were present.  It would be logical to conclude that are mediterranean ancestors were part of the Roman empire. 

Here's a great study done in 2001.  The percentages per capita per geographic locations reveals that their are more non jews overall with the same dna y haplogroups than jews, specifically J1, J2.  Significantly higher, we are talking about in the millions and millions.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=MImg&_imagekey=B8JDD-4R29JBW-M…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J_(Y-DNA)#J2

----- Original Message ----
From: "research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, March 4, 2010 3:08:23 PM
Subject: Research Digest, Vol 50, Issue 4

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Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
DAILY DIGEST
****************************************

Today's Topics:

  1. Delgado from Rio Grande Zacatecas (robertzermeno@msn.com)
  2. Re: Jewish evidence in Los (mygenes2000@yahoo.com)
  3. Re: Jewish evidence in Los Altos (mygenes2000@yahoo.com)
  4. Re: US Government Genealogy Resources (Alicia Carrillo)
  5. de alba (emma.dealba@gmail.com)
  6. Re: Jewish evidence in Los Altos (Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto)
  7. Re: Jewish evidence in Los (Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto)
  8. Re: Jewish evidence in Los (eric edgar)
  9. Re: Jewish evidence in Los Altos (eric edgar)
  10. Re: Jewish evidence in Los Altos (paul.gomez@verizon.net)
  11. Montalvo Research (texn_4_ever@yahoo.com)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed,  3 Mar 2010 18:07:18 -0800 (PST)
From: robertzermeno@msn.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Delgado from Rio Grande Zacatecas
Message-ID:
   
   
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Hay alguien que tiene mas informacion sobre la familia Delgado do Rio Bravo, Zacatecas?

Esto es lo que tengo:

1) Julio Delgado (n. c. 1870) caso con Ger?nima L?pez
-----2) Perfecto Delgado (n. 6 May 1894 Rio Grande, Zacatecas) caso con Lina Medina
----------3) Antonio Delgado (n. 2 Sep 1905 Rio Grande, Zacatecas m. Jan 1978) caso con Natividad de la Fuente

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 02:55:06 +0000
From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish evidence in Los
Message-ID:
    <1223985958-1267671112-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-14664186…>
   
Content-Type: text/plain

One My uncles has a circulatory problem that has a much higher incident rate in the jewish population.  my  in laws are from san miguel el alto and they have a skin disorder by they I mean my mother in law sister in law some of my wifes cousins and her brother get these skin discolorations, small blotches.  This is predominantly a jewish genetic disorder. There are other stories in los altos that point to a jewish influence in certain families. The lomeli romo perez and franco.
------Original Message------
From: actapatio2007@yahoo.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish evidence in Los
Sent: Feb 27, 2010 6:09 PM

Hello R.A. Ricci, my family is from el Valle de Guadalupe.  Is this docmented?  Neither of my grandfathers r.i.p never said anything about this...please point me in the right direction...

DNA Survey Participants Needed

Hi,

I recently took part in a survey about how DNA genealogy research has
affected me. They are particularly interest in people with different
ethnic influences in their background. I thought my friends on
Nuestros Ranchos may be interested in participating so I am
forwarding the request to the list.

Linda Romero

*********
Hello,

My name is Biorn Ivemark, and I'm a Research Assistant to Professor
Wendy Roth in the Department of Sociology at the University of British
Columbia. Dr. Roth is doing a research study on the social impacts of
DNA Ancestry Testing -- especially whether it has any effect on
identities and attitudes. I recently interviewed someone you know for
this study and they thought you might be willing to participate in an
interview as well.

We're looking to talk to people with a wide range of experiences of
DNA Ancestry Testing, so we'd be very interested in learning about your
experiences regardless of whether the test results had much influence on
you or not.

If you would be willing to help with this project, would you please fill
out a quick online survey at:

http://faculty.arts.ubc.ca/wroth/SurveyIntro.html

It should only take you about 10-15 minutes. It focuses on why you chose
to take the test, your background, your experience with genetic
genealogy testing, and how the results may have affected you.

At the end, it will ask you if you would be interested in being
contacted for a follow-up interview as well. These interviews are done
over the phone, and people who participate in them will be offered $40
to thank them for their time. But regardless of whether you are
interested in the follow-up interview, I hope you will complete the
quick online survey.

If you have any questions about this project, feel free to contact me at
bivemark@interchange.ubc.ca or (778) 848-4945, or contact Dr. Roth at
wroth@interchange.ubc.ca or (604) 822-4845.

Thanks very much for your consideration, and I hope to hear from you
soon!

Kind regards,
Biorn

Español / English

Pienso que muchas personas no están participando en este foro por falta del entendimiento del idioma ingles o español (castellano). Es decir, no se les facilita leer y escribir en ingles o viceversa en español. Muchos de los mensajes, (la mayoría) están escritos solo en ingles y no en español. Yo creo que es un poco desmoralizante no poder participar en el foro y ver a cada rato temas escritos en un idioma foráneo. Quizás por eso a no hay tanta participación como pudiera haber. Pero de mayor preocupación es la información que alguien puede tener que no habla el idioma en que se pone la información en el foro. Si uno nada mas pone sus preguntas ó sugerencias en un solo idioma se limita en la ayuda que puede brindar o recibir en este foro. Mi sugerencia, y me imagino que es la de muchos, es que se trate de poner la información en ambos idiomas para que pueda haber mayor participación y ayuda entre los miembros. ¿Que piensan acerca de esta sugerencia?

I think that many people not are participating in this forum for lack of understanding of the English or Spanish (Castilian) language. In other words, is not easy for them to read and write in English or vice versa in Spanish. Many of the messages, (most) are written only in English and not in Spanish. I think that it is a bit demoralizing to not be able to participate in the Forum and see subjects written in a foreign language all the time. Maybe that is why there is not as much participation as there could be. Of greater concern is the information that someone may have that does not speak the language in which the information is being placed in the Forum. If one only puts their questions or suggestions in a single language it limits the help or assistance they can give or receive in this forum. My suggestion, and I imagine is that of many, is to try to put the information in both languages so there can be greater participation and assistance amongst the members. What do you think about this suggestion?

Jornalero

Would the term “Jornalero,” referenced in civil records from San Miguel el Alto, Jalisco during the late 1800’s, have the same translation today? I’ve heard several translations of this term including “day laborer,”and “agricultural worker.” Since the concept of a “day laborer” would not have existed during that time period, does anyone have a historically correct definition?
Gracias, Roxanne Ocampo