This is interesting Esperanza, I have some "jewish" blood too from Chihuahua. Yes, many peopleoften confuse race with a nationality. I always hear "oh he's dad is mexican and the mother is white"Wherein fact Mexicans can be of any race (white, black, asian, mestizo). Mexican is a nationalitynot a race. It like American is to Mexican. Within each country wherever europeans went theyleft their blood. So in each respective country youll find all type of people. My mother recalls oncewhen she immigrated in in the 1960s people did not believe she was Mexican because she was blonde. She replied "Claro que soy mexicana!" But she had to attend a "white" school, which makes everythingconfusing, one side is saying Mexicans are seperate but we see in her case? The US has slowly beencorrecting the error though. Acknolwedng the varied racial people within hispanic and latino. I alsoam iffy on the hispanic/latino term, it's very contraversial hence why I personally do not support itwe are
all American. Apparently I am now hearng the family Falcon de la Garza are jewish? I thoughtthey were espanol, they only married once in Los Altos but the marrage did not produce children. Fromwhat I have notced the north didn't mingle too much with the west Mexico. Occasionally youll seeso and so from Coahuila marrying so so from Jalisco but not too much. I wonder why?
Regards,Daniel
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Very interesting, Esperanza--

That reminds me of a lady I once knew, surnamed Cohen (her maiden name). Her father held a very high position in the Conservative Judaic community. When he died, he was buried in robes and a miter very similar to what the pope wears for special rituals, to signify his special status.

Emilie

Port Orchard, WA

> From: Latina1955@aol.com
> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:38:55 -0500
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
>
> Because the Jewish "clans" preferred to marry within their own clans and of
> their own faith, it appears that the majority carry very similar DNA.
> While it is true that one needed to be born from a Jewish mother to be
> considered Jewish, it is also true that in the Kohen tribe, or priestly family
> of the Jewish faith. _http://www.cohen-levi.org/_
> (http://www.cohen-levi.org/) , only Cohen MALES can perform the Temple's service. This is a very
> sensitive subject within the today's Jewish communities - especially by Jewish
> women.
>
>
> This may not define "race", however neither being Spanish, Irish, Mexican
> is considered a "race", as the traditional thinking of race is defined by
> color, not ethnic, national, or religious origins. I liked the heading of
> this topic "clans"...it attempts to define family lineage within a larger
> scope of a given nation - something we all do as we go down the path of
> genealogy and our ancestry.
>
>
> It is of no coincidence that many "conversos" would have been attracted to
> the new world, as it was the very same year Columbus "discovered" America
> that Queen Isabella decided to get rid of all Jews and Muslims who had lived
> peacefully in Spain for hundreds of years.
>
> Many of these displaced people (yet another Diaspora) went to other parts
> of Europe, but no doubt many also came to the New World, and their Y-DNA
> markers are testimony to such settlements. Did they continue their faith in
> secrecy? Yet another mystery.....but I have heard anecdotal stories within
> my own families how they "rebelled" against the Catholic Church or
> whispered about their lineage...and as it so happens, my own Y-DNA has been linked
> by Gary Felix's site as a descendant of Med/Semitic - E1b1b1.
>
> Esperanza (Chicagoland area)
>

Hello Angelina,

Ruben had already made the comment that Judaism is a religion and not a
race, which goes along with what you say Mariano is saying, even though he
may not have intended it. Once they give up their religion they are no
longer Jewish. However, many of them practiced in hiding, so it is hard to
tell which really were, even with DNA. Especially because culture, religion,
and race don't always coincide just as Semitic speakers include Arab
Muslims, Arab Christians, and Jews. It also goes along with my posts in the
thread that started this thread, the Madera family. I used the examples of
Castillian being of Latin origin but the DNA of the Castilians is not Roman
and not all groups of people considered Celtic were of the same DNA. Or how
about Mexicans that don't have Jewish blood eating capirotada. I also
understand that if the mother is not Jewish the children are not either. So
for DNA studies those with Y-DNA of Jews aren't Jews, only those with mt-DNA
are. Anyway, Gary Felix has a page of a new way to test for Jewish
relatedness. I might question some of it but he is an expert and not me. For
those that are curious here is the link -
http://garyfelix.tripod.com/~GaryFelix/index64.htm

Saludos,
Armando

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:49 PM, Angelina Markle wrote:

> Hello Yolanda and Ruben,
>
> I think that we have to be clear when referring to "Jews" in Mexico. As one
> of you pointed out we cannot deny the presence of "Jews", it is well
> documented. However, the "Jews" that were allowed to come to Mexico and
> other Spanish colonies were actually "conversos" and expected to practice
> the Catholic faith. I'm sure that there were several "conversos" that were
> involved in the founding of settlements. Those that faltered and returned to
> their Jewish faith were removed from power and prosecuted by the Spanish
> Inquisition as Yolanda mentions. Therefore, I can see how Mariano Gonzalez
> can claim that Jewish settlers in Mexico is a myth, the Catholic church
> would not allow it - they were "conversos" or converted Jews who lived among
> the regular population as long as they behaved like good Catholics and not
> "Jews."
>
> As far as "Jews" being a race I believe they are considered part of the
> "Semitic" group which according to Websters includes Arabs and Jews.
>
> -Angelina-
>
>
>

Well, Don Mariano seems to be speaking solely of one area in the New World, Jalisco, or Los Altos de-- Still, if Altenos were of Spanish stock, they were still a mixed breed evolving from centuries of various cultures on the Iberian peninsula--- Visigoth, Moorish, Judaic---My little Muslim friend in Egypt tells me that the Arabic word for rice is ---- guess what?---Arroz! My Jewish friends told me that some of the hymnal music in the Catholic church is the same as in their temples. The early Spaniards could have promoted Christianity, and made the crime of apostasy punishable by death, but they brought a very mixed culture with them.

Mariano speaks of the food as being Spanish, such as "Cocido"--to the French, cocido is "Pot au Feu", but I think that is only because basic food like soups and stews that are thrown together with whatever meat and veggies are at hand is the same all over the world and goes by different names.

I do concede that the "French" thing can be a myth in various parts of Mexico, only because the French were there in the middle of the 19th century and by then were the only people to be seen with blonde hair and blue eyes, and people not knowing that their Spanish ancestors also had those traits and passed them on.

My father for example, born in Jerez, Zacatecas, was of Basque ancestry, and he would say that he had French ancestors because his great-grandfather was called El Frances because he had light hair and blue eyes. However, in my research of his ancestry going back to the late 1600s, I don't find a single Frenchman, or any Basque that came from France, only from Navarra. They were mostly described as Espanoles, very few Indio, and several Mulatto. So, in my family's case, the "French" thing is a myth. However, in my mother's New Mexican-Pueblo heritage, I see some things in that culture that hark back to Sephardic Jews, hiding in the hinterlands, professing to be Catholics and indeed, even in the late 19th century, they would still perform some rituals in secret.

Emilie

Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:32:16 -0600
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
>
> Hola Yolanda,
> puedes encontrar lo que buscas haciendo clic en el siguiente enlace -
> http://genealogia-mexico-occidente.googlegroups.com/web/LOS+MITOS+SEFAR…
> Es el ultimo de los que sale en la siguiente pagina -
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/genealogia-mexico-occidente/files?h…
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Yolanda Ochoa wrote:
>
> > Hello Ruben - Can you please share with us what evidence Mariano uses to
> > justify the statement that Jews in Mexico is a 'myth'? I don't have the
> > book. Interesting statement to make when there is much history that proves
> > otherwise including the Spanish Inquisition which also took place in Mexico.
> > thanks for sharing,
> > Yolanda
> >
>
>
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> >
> > Encuentra las mejores recetas en Yahoo! Cocina.
> > http://mx.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
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