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Por dcalonso |

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

I'm wondering if anyone has any information on Beatriz Sanchez de Carranza who also used the names Beatriz Sanchez de Lara, Beatriz Gomez, Beatriz Sanchez de Mendoza, Maria Sanchez, and Maria Gomez, she's mentioned in the below passage by Rodolfo H Hernández Chavez. She would've been born around 1615, probaly in Jalostotitlan. Based on the names, does anyone have any guesses about who her parents were?

passage from publication of Rodolfo H Hernández Chavez:

Francisco de Avalos, esposo de María de Espitia, quien según investigaciones de Don Jaime Holcombe procreó en Beatriz Sánchez de Lara –también conocida como Beatriz Sánchez de Carranza, Beatriz Sánchez de Mendoza ó Beatriz Gómez propietaria de una casa en la Villa de los Lagos, descrita en el padrón de 669 como “Casa de María Gómez Viuda”, donde vivía Antonia de Avalos doncella, en compañía de Bernarda Ortiz doncella, y de la “Estancia de San Nicolás de la Ciénega” en la jurisdicción de San Juan/Jalostotitlán, registrada en los padrones de 1670 como “Rancho de Beatriz Gómez”, y en los de 1672, 1673 y 1679 como “Estancia de Beatriz Gómez”, donde vivía en compañía de sus hijos y nietos-, a: Ysabel de Avalos/Ysabel Sanchez Carranza, mujer de José Leonel de Cervantes y Orozco, indiscutiblemente su consanguíneo por ser hijo de Leonel de Cervantes y de Doña Leonor de Orozco; Agustina de Avalos, madre de Juana Gómez...

Beatriz Gómez (María Sánchez) no es la misma Beatriz Schz Carran

Hola compañeros , yo casi estoy seguro que Beatriz Gómez es descendiente de Juan Sánchez de Lara y Los Sánchez de Mendoza y no debe de tener parentesco con los Sánchez Carranza  , hay una prueba muy facil que el la boda de Luis Sánchez Venegas descendiente de Sánchez Carranza y de Manuela  Ortiz de Rodas( Escoto Tovar ) decendienta de Beatriz Gómez(María Sánchez ) no hay dispensa matrimonial

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XYH6?i=26&wc=3J4P-VZH%3A171932801%2C171930902%2C175000601%3Fcc%3D1874591&cc=1874591

E revizado esta familia tenia mucha relacion con personas de San Francisco del Rincon Guanajuato , y con Guanajuato , ya que varios de sus hijos casaron con personas de alla , uno de ellos es  Bernardino de Ávalos y Sánchez nació en 1645, en Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México, su , María Beatriz Sánchez de Lara, tenía 37 años. Se casó con Josefha Bocanegra Sánchez en 1664, en Santa Fe de Guadalupe, Guanajuato, Guanajuato, México. Fueron padres de por lo menos 2 hijos y 2 hijas. una de ellas es Juana Avalos casada con Tomas Hermosillo del cual yo desciendo , lamentablemente en el acta de matrimonio no dicen el nombre de los padres de ninguno de los dos contrayentes se el nombre de la madre de Bernardino gracias a algunas dispensas Matrimoniales de sus decendientes , 

 

otra hija es Magdalena Sánchez de Avalos nació en 1650, en San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco,  Se casó con Nicolas de Bocanegra en 1666, en San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco, México. Fueron padres de Bartolomé de Bocanegra que aparece en el padrón de 1679 en casa de Beatriz Gómez  seguramente su nieto ya que ella Murió el 13 de diciembre de 1667, en San Juan de los Lagos, San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco, México,  en el libro retoños de la nueva España de Gonzalez lean menciona lo siguiente 

" específicamente a una María Sánchez de Lara, que parece ser diferente de la Beatriz Mendoza mencionada anteriormente en el libro:
Francisco de *Ávalos* y su esposa *María Sánchez de Lara* fueron vecinos de la jurisdicción de Santa María de los Lagos en los años centrales del siglo XVII. Procrearon a los siguientes vástagos, bautizados en Lagos en las fechas *que se indican: a) Bernardino*, nacido hacia 1650, esposo de Josefa Pérez de Bocanegra y Sánchez de Ávalos, acaso su consanguínea, hija de Nicolás Pérez de Bocanegra y de Magdalena Sánchez de Ávalos (sepultada en San Juan de los Lagos el 13 de diciembre de 1667); "

 

Aqui difiero de Gonzalez Leal ya que Magdalena Sánchez de Avalos no pudo ser madre de Josefa Pérez Bocanegra , yo pienso que eran hermanos debido que Nicolas Pérez de Bocanegra y Magdalena tuvieron a su único hijo en 1667 el mismo año que ella murió y este antes de casar con Magdalena ya había estado casado con Andrea ramirez de Vargas teniendo su ultimo hijo en 29 diciembre del  1647, entonces Josefa Pérez Bocanegra debio nacer después de esta fecha ósea en 1648 y  caso en 1664 tendría unos quince años cuando caso se daban casos asi pero creo yo es mas bien hermana de Bernandino y la esposa de este seria sobrina de  Nicolas Pérez de Bocanegra , hija de un hermano de este llamado Mateo Pérez de Bocanegra y de Juana Garcia o Sánchez bautizada  el  27 SEP 1644 en Irapuato, Guanajuato,Mexico , por eso puso a su hija Juana Como su madre

 

Aquí esta una dispensa matrimonial Para casar Nicolás Pérez de Bocanegra con  Juana de torres 

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-5JSM-GN?i=1188

 

Donde se menciona que es Viudo de Magdalena Sánchez, que fue enterrada en San Juan porque se puso mala y la llevo a ver a su madre , lo cual sería que su madre le sobrevivió a ella , y esto claramente se ve en los padrones matrimoniales de 1673 y 1679 donde esta Beatriz Gómez ( María Sánchez) que sería su madre,  con su hijo de Magdalena huérfano Bartolomé de Bocanegra aquí la fe de bautismo de Bartolomé Bocanegra  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GG2X-9H1N?i=387&wc=3VH…

 

y ya teniendo a los dos hermanos Magdalena y Bernardino me voy al padrón de Jalostotitlan de 1650 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9K7-W99J

cito 

 

Casa estancia de Ana Gutiérrez viuda de Juan Martin del Angel 

Francisco Martin su hijo 20 años

Constanza Martin su hija 25 años

Juan Martin español

Francisca Gutiérrez su mujer

 

Francisco Hernández (Olivares Hernández)

Magdalena Cabrera su mujer  ojo

 

María 20 años su Hija

Bernardino 10 años  su hijo

Juan 14 años su hijo 

Magdalena 6 años su hija

Antonio 5 años 

Entonces aquí tenemos a un Bernardino y Magdalena Hermanos  el primero nació en 1640 y la segunda caso en 1644

El Bernardino Avalos casado con Josefa Pérez Bocanegra caso en el año de 1664 ósea de 22 años encaja perfecto en este supuesto

Y Magdalena Sánchez de Avalos creo debió casarse con Nicolás Pérez de Bocanegra en el año de 1666 o 1667 ya que su único hijo Bartolomé nació en 1667 y ella murió ese mismo año, ella en ese año tendría 20 años 

Hay una María Sánchez Casada con Andrés Sotomayor , que tuvo por lo menos a 3 hijos una de ellas se llama Magdalena casualidad o por honrar a su abuela Magdalena Cabrera 

Y el Hermano de este Andrés llamado José SotoMayor , creo es el que está casado con Luisa Avalos Sánchez hermana de Bernardino que también es nombrado en el padrón de 1679 de Jalostotitlan,  aquí menciona que es residente de Jalostotitlán y es hermano de Andrés Soto padre de la contrayente y tener 57 años en el año 1692 ósea nació en 1635   https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-5K9X-1H?i=715

 

Ahora de todo lo contrario Beatriz Gómez, María Sánchez Magdalena Cabrera son la misma persona, el apellido Sánchez esta lógico que estas personas lo tengan debido a que Francisco Olivares (Hernández de Olivares) debe ser hijo de Rodrigo Olivares Hernández y María Hurtado Sánchez de Mendoza,  Pero el Avalos no está por ningún lado , espero seguir consiguiendo documentos que desenreden este enigma 

Cualquier dato que hayan encontrado sería muy interesante para completar el árbol genealógico con documentos y no con tanta especulación 

 

I descend from two of the three Villaseñor Orosco Tovar brothers , (Capitán Juan Villaseñor Orosco, Conquistador Francisco Orosco Tovar, and Diego Orosco Tovar), that that came to Nueva España.

Prior to this thread, I didn’t have any clues as to Petronila Orozco’s ancestry. Thanks to Richard Ibarra for presenting evidence of her siblings and providing more clues as to her ancestry. With the addition of Cervantes to the surname, we can assume that she descends from Capitán Juan De Villaseñor Orosco and Catalina Cervantes Andrada De Lara

I don’t have the names fo Francisco’s children. I would appreciate it very much if someone would direct me to a source naming his descendants. I do know that Juan’s will names Francisco’s descendants, but I don’t have a copy of it. In my notes I do have a question regarding Pedro Villaseñor. I have in my notes that one secondary source named him as another brother of Capitán Juan De Villaseñor Orosco Tovar, while another secondary source had him as a nephew, son of his brother Francisco.

Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

I was trying to look for information on Sanchez Carranza's since we know Beatriz Gomez/Sanchez descends in some way through the Sanchez Carranza's and I found this passage in Retono's on the internet. I'm not sure what it really is saying but I thought Id post it because I had never heard of this Andres Sanchez Carranza although i see there's a corresponding dispensa too:

Varias dispensas matrimoniales identifican a don Juan como el padre espurio de María González de Rubalcava; habida con Leonor Franco; y dicha hija a su vez procreó dos semillas ilegítimas con Andrés Sánchez-Carranza, prole de Diego Sánchez-Carranza y de Ana Muñoz. Ana Muñoz fue hija de ganancia de Juan González de Hermosillo el tercero, el esposo de Anna González Florida la menor, de manera que aquí tenemos una sucesión bastarda de dos ramas vinculadas. Los dos renuevos de Andrés Andrés Sánchez-Carranza y María González de Rubalcava casaron y dejaron su semilla en Tepatitlán.

Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jal. Abril 21 de 1710 Exp. 43 - Dispensa de cuarto grado
de consanguinidad. - Diego Sánchez González, español de 35 años de edad, vecino
de esta feligresía, hijo natural de Andrés Sánchez Carranza; con María Theresa
Ramírez, española de 17 años de edad, originaría y vecina de esta feligresía,
hija legítima de Juan Ramírez de Mendoza, difunto y de Doña Cathalina Cortés
Delgadillo. Declaración del pretenso y de Don Juan de la Mora y Mendoza, español
de 53 años de edad, pariente por afinidad de los pretensos: Porque descendemos
yo y la dicha de Juan González de Hermosillo, mi bisabuelo, y de Beatriz de
Hermosillo, bisabuela de la dicha, quienes fueron hermanos, y de éstos Ana Muñoz
de Hermosillo, mi abuela y María de Hermosillo, abuela de la dicha, y de éstos,
Andrés Sánchez Carranza, mi padre y Juan Ramírez de Mendoza, ya difunto, padre
de la susodicha. 8 fojas.

I sent an email about Diego Sánchez-Carranza and Ana Muñoz yesterday and it's never shown up here. I was gonna repost it but now I'm wondering if there's something wrong with Nuestros Ranchos.

Thank you for posting this, Danny, it really put 2 & 2 together for me. What I mean, is, from various dispensas, I knew there were several families named Avalos Villaseñor who descended from a Maria Sanchez, I just haven’t seen the surnames Sanchez de Lara nor Sanchez Carranza associated with them. Nor did I know she was also known as Beatriz Gomez aka Sanchez de Mendoza. And now, as I go back and look at the padrones for San Juan de Lagos, I see her and her offspring there. Very cool! I was able to fill in some holes.

I still don’t know who her husband was, but I have in my notes that Ysabel de Avalos, who was married to Juan de Cervantes Carvajal, was daughter of Francisco de Avalos cc Maria Beatriz Sanchez y Gomez (!!!). Unfortunately, I don't have that sourced, and it's still just a lead.

Here's something: Maria Sanchez had a brother named Matheo Sanchez, who had a son named Pedro Sanchez, who had a son named Pedro Sanchez de Mendoza cc Juana Lopez, who were parents of Juan Fructos Sanchez cc Juana Gonzalez de Hermosillo, who were dispensed at 4/4:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6K9T-JJ?i=531&wc=3J4S-…

There’s a Mateo Sanchez Rodriguez in the San Juan padrones 1670-1672-1673-1679, who was married to Felipa Martin del Angel, though I haven’t been able to establish any link. On the 1670-72-73 padrones, there’s an Isabel Mendoza living in their household, along with various people surnamed Rodriguez. Do any of those names ring a bell? No Pedro Sanchez in his household.

There’s a Pedro Sanchez cc Ynes Lopez, living on a rancho in 1672-1673-1679, with Gonzalo Hermosillo, Juan Ortiz, Bartolome Dominguez, Juan Montoya. Could this be Pedro Sanchez cc Juana Lopez? The only children I have for them were baptized 1708-1715, so I have doubts. This might be Pedro El Viejo.

Various children surnamed Sanchez appear living in the home of Beatriz Gomez in the 1672 and 1673 padrones, including a Pedro Sanchez. Again, it’s hard to tell who her offspring are, and who her grandchildren or nephews are.

I hope that helps!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Manny,

The names Sanchez Carranza and Gomez confuse me. chris and Mr. Ricci make sense that Juan Sanchez de Lara and Marta Sanchez de Mendoza are the correct parents. But, we know who their parents are and none of them use Gomez or Carranza. Here's two dispensas i found that seem to be referring to Maria Sanchez, but I'm not sure how helpful they are.

Tepatitlán de Morelos. Jal. Mayo 15 de 1687. Exp 92 - Dispensa de cuarto grado de consanguinidad - Melchor Sánchez, español de 22 años de edad, vecino de la jurisdicción de Tepatitlán. hijo legítimo de Joseph Sánchez y de Doña Maria de Orozco, ya difunta y vecinos que fueron de la jurisdicción de Jalostotitlán; con Isabel de Hermosillo, española de 28 años de edad, hija legítima de Sebastián Gutiérrez y de María Galindo, vecinos de dicha jurisdicción. Declaración del pretenso: Que Toribio Hernández de Arellanos e Isabel de Mendoza, vecinos que fueron de la Villa de los Lagos, fueron padres legítimos de Marta Sánchez y de Ana Sánchez, que fueron hermanas, y de Ana Sánchez nació Juan Becerra y de Marta Sánchez nació María Sánchez, que fueron primos hermanos, y de María Sánchez nació mi padre Joseph Sánchez, y de Juan Becerra nació María Galindo, madre de la dicha contrayente Isabel de Hermosillo. 12 fojas

Jalostotitlán. Jal. Septiembre 25 de 1734.- Dispensa de cuarto grado de consanguinidad.- Joseph Sánchez Frutos, español de 21 años de edad, originario y vecino de esta feligresía en la administración de Ntra. Sra. de San Juan, hijo legítimo de Pedro Sánchez y de Juana López, difuntos: con Juana de Hermosillo, española de 21 años de edad, originaria y vecina de esta feligresía, hija legítima de Thomás de Hermosillo y de Juana de Avalos, difunta. Declaración de Joseph Muñoz, español de 34 años de edad, primo segundo de la pretensa: Matheo Sánchez, bisabuelo del pretenso, y María Sánchez, bisabuela de la pretensa, fueron hermanos que es primer grado, de Matheo, procedió Pedro Sánchez, abuelo del pretenso, y de María, procedió Bernardino de Avalos, abuelo de la pretensa, que fueron primos hermanos que es segundo grado, de Pedro Sánchez, procedió Pedro Sánchez, padre del pretenso, y de Bernardino de Avalos, procedió Juana de Avalos, madre de la pretensa, primos segundos que es tercero grado. Se otorgó la dispensa en la Ciudad de Guadalajara, en 30 de septiembre de 1734. 13 fojas.

Daniel,

This dispensa that Manny mentioned proves that Mateo Sanchez and Maria Sanchez are brother and sister and I do believe they are the children of Juan Sanchez de Lara and Marta Sanchez de Mendoza, but if that Maria Sanchez is the same as the other Maria Sanchez and it seems like they probably are, it doesn't explain where the Gomez and Carranza comes from. If Maria Sanchez/Beatriz Gomez is the daughter of Marta Sanchez de Mendoza and Juan Sanchez de Lara, and Marta Sanchez de Mendoza is the daughter of Toribio Hernandez de Arellano and Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza and Juan Sanchez de Lara is the son of Juan Sanchez and Elvira Gil de Lara, where does does the Carranza and Gomez come from?

Jalostotitlán. Jal. Septiembre 25 de 1734.- Dispensa de cuarto grado de
consanguinidad.- Joseph Sánchez Frutos, español de 21 años de edad, originario y
vecino de esta feligresía en la administración de Ntra. Sra. de San Juan, hijo
legítimo de Pedro Sánchez y de Juana López, difuntos: con Juana de Hermosillo.
española de 21 años de edad, originaria y vecina de esta feligresía, hija
legítima de Thomás de Hermosillo y de Juana de Avalos, difunta. Declaración de
Joseph Muñoz, español de 34 años de edad, primo segundo de la pretensa: Matheo
Sánchez, bisabuelo del pretenso, y María Sánchez, bisabuela de la pretensa,
fueron hermanos que es primer grado, de Matheo, procedió Pedro Sánchez, abuelo
del pretenso, y de María, procedió Bernardino de Avalos, abuelo de la pretensa,
que fueron primos hermanos que es segundo grado, de Pedro Sánchez, procedió
Pedro Sánchez, padre del pretenso, y de Bernardino de Avalos, procedió Juana de
Avalos, madre de la pretensa, primos segundos que es tercero grado. Se otorgó la
dispensa en la Ciudad de Guadalajara, en 30 de septiembre de 1734. 13 fojas.

Danny, I’ve seen that piece by Rodolfo H Hernandez Chavez before, it was posted in the long Avalos thread. It suggests possible connections between these people, but - as you point out - it appears to be written in the spirit of conjecture and what-if’s. There seems to be some conflicts with time lines, in my opinion.

What I can verify, is that Marta Sanchez did have a granddaughter named Beatriz Gomez, as confirmed by the 31 Jul 1628 baptism record for Madalena hija de la Yglesia (bottom left).

If you look on the previous page, left image, you’ll see 3 baptisms, dated 21 Jul 1628, on which the padrinos are Juan de Malaber and his granddaughter, Beatriz Gomez (including the baptism for Antonio, hijo de Alonso Quesada cc Isabel de Alarcon).

I have never seen the surname “Malaber.” Could this be Juan Sanchez de Lara? Or is this a different Beatriz Gomez?

I have only 2 children for Juan Sanchez de Lara cc Marta Sanchez: Maria Sanchez, who was mother of Joseph Sanchez cc Maria de Orozco, and Francisco Sanchez cc Maria de Alvarado. Can anybody add to that?

Thanks,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Manny,

this is good information. That would explain the Gomez and Carranza names since we must be missing a generation. So there must be another child of Marta Sanchez de Mendoza and Juan Sanchez de Lara. Also how old do you have to be a Madrina, I have Beatriz Gomez born about 1615, but if she's peoples Madrina in 1628, she's probably born before 1615. I'm guessing that Juan Sanchez de Lara and Juan de Malaber are the same person otherwise it wouldn't explain why she uses the Sanchez de Lara name, but I typed the name into google and this person's tree comes up and he has Juan de Malaber as a separate spouse.

https://gw.geneanet.org/sathazagthoth?lang=en&p=martha&n=sanchez+de+men…

Hi all,
I have also been looking into this line recently and trying to put together all the pieces. I think this is a similar case to the Plasencia & Benavides lines that got confused because conjecture (or at least accessibly documented ideas) got mixed in to the basic framework provided by dispensas.

CHILDREN of MARIA BEATRIZ GOMEZ SANCHEZ

What I have seen so far is that Maria Beatriz Gomez Sanchez had at least 4 children:

1) Agustina de Avalos (who had children named Gomez – discussed in the Nicholas Martin Juana Avalos thread on NR);
2) Isabel Sanchez Carranza married to Jose de Cervantes Leonel (more on her below)
3) Bernardino de Avalos married to Juana Perez de Bocanegra
4) Luisa de Avalos married to Jose de Soto

I think that the dispensas identifying her children have been relatively clearly discussed on other threads on Nuestros Ranchos, so I won’t clutter the post with discussion of that. However, I will add that I believe there is not sufficient evidence to link the Francisco de Avalos, married to Maria de Espitia Retemosa, with Maria Beatriz as the father to her children as conjectured by Rodolfo H Hernández Chavez. The timelines are too off, especially when considering the added evidence of the Padrones which list her as a widow while Francisco is still having children with Maria de Espitia and listed not long after her on the pardon of Lagos de Moreno with this family. So far, I think we cannot say for certain who her husband or the father of her children was.

SIBLINGS of MARIA BEATRIZ GOMEZ SANCHEZ

Moving on past her immediate children, some dispensas also provide some siblings that might eventually help us identify her parents.
We know from the dispensa posted earlier in this thread that Maria Beatriz had a brother named Mateo Sanchez, who had descendants using the name Sanchez de Mendoza. It seems that this is the origin for the Sanchez de Mendoza attribution to Beatriz. Thanks to Manny, it also seems pretty clear that this is the result of Maria Beatriz being the granddaughter of Martha Sanchez de Mendoza.

Another couple dispensas of their descendants provide evidence for another sibling of Maria Beatriz named Ana Sanchez and a clue to the attribution of Sanchez Carranza and Sanchez de Lara to Maria Beatriz’s many surnames.

The first clue is provided by a dispensa posted by Danny on the Nicholas Martin thread:

Jalostotitlán. Jal. Abril 5 de 1747. Exp. 52.- Dispensa de cuarto grado puro de
consanguinidad.- Juan Manuel Martín, español de 25 años de edad, originario y
vecino de esta feligresía, hijo legítimo de Theodoro Martín y de María Ana
Gómez: con Luciana de Avalos, española de 27 años de edad, originaría y vecina
de esta feligresía en el puesto nombrado la Sienega, hija legítima de Miguel de
Avalos, difunto y de Catharina Cordero. Declaración de Joseph Seferíno de Escoto
y Tovar, español de 25 años de edad, pariente de los pretensos en cuarto con
quinto grado: Agustina de Avalos, bisabuela del pretenso, y Bernardino de
Avalos, bisabuelo de la pretensa fueron hermanos que es primer grado, que Juana
Gómez, abuela del pretenso y María de Avalos, abuela de la pretensa, fueron
primas hermanas que es segundo grado, que María Ana Gómez, madre del pretenso y
Catharina Cordero, madre de la pretensa, son primas segundas que es tercero
grado. Se otorgó la dispensa en la Ciudad de Guadalajara. en 8 de abril de 1747.

Although it primarily established the relationship between Agustina de Avalos and Bernardino de Avalos, it also suggests that the Escoto y Tovar family shares a common ancestory with Agustina and Bernardino, given that the witness Joseph Seferíno de Escoto y Tovar is identified as a pariente en cuarto con quinto grado.
This relationship is made even clearer by a dispensa for Juan Marcos Escoto, son of Juan Escoto and Maria Morales (Cervantes-Sanchez Carranza), and Maria Sanchez (de Lara) Vanegas.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-66P8-K?i=165&cc=1874591

It gives this tree:
Beatriz Sanchez -1- Ana Sanchez
Isabel Sanchez -2- Maria Sanchez (de Lara y Castaneda)
Maria Morales -3- Maria Sanchez Vanegas (Pretensa)
Juan Marcos de Escoto (pretense) -4- (N/A)

In Retonos, Gonzalez Leal lists Beatriz Sanchez Carranza, the daughter of Diego Sanchez Carranza and Isabel Munoz Gonzalez de Hermosillo, as the mother of Isabel Sanchez Carranza (wife of Jose Leonel de Cervantes) outside of her marriage with Alonso Munoz. However, he does not give a specific document that proves this link. It might be true, since Beatriz Sanchez Carranza had a sister named Ana, but she seems to have gone by Munoz de Hermosillo and married Luis Gonzalez-Dominguez. For her to be the mother of Maria Sanchez de Lara Castaneda who married Gregorio Vanegas de Torres, Maria would also had to have been born outside of her marriage.

Moreover, if we take into account the proposed relationship between Joseph Seferíno de Escoto y Tovar, Juan Manuel Martin Gomez, and Luciana de Avalos Cordero, then the Beatriz Sanchez listed as the mother of Isabel Sanchez Carranza cc Jose de Cervantes Leonel must be our Maria Beatriz Gomez Sanchez. Our Maria Beatriz would have been around the same age as the Diego Sanchez Carranza d. 22 Oct 1669 in Juanacatlan, cc Ana Munoz de Hermosillo. With this we know she could not have been his daughter.

This information now presents two further questions for me, which I do not have answers for:

1) In light of this information, can we identify Isabel de Avalos, sister of Bernardino de Avalos and thus daughter of Maria Beatriz Gomez Sanchez, with Isabel Sanchez Carranza cc Jose de Cervantes Leonel?

1a) If so, who is the father of her son Miguel de Avalos Villasenor cc Maria Vasques de Avila or Aviles? Is is Jose de Cervantes Leonel, or was he born before her marriage to Jose?

2) If we can establish then that the descendants of Maria Beatriz Gomez Sanchez and her siblings used Sanchez de Mendoza, Sanchez de Lara, and Sanchez Carranza, and we know that one set of grandparents produced the Sanchez de Mendoza and Sanchez de Lara, who can we identify as the source of the Sanchez Carranza?

Although I do not have any documented answers, I will share some clues that might help us answer the second question. First, in the defunciones of Jalostotitlan, there is a Diego Sanchez Carranza listed as having died at the Estancia en el paso de Mezcala 24 Oct 1660.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-FM9T-42?i=15&wc=3J4Y-D…

He made a will but no wife or albaceas are listed. I believe that this is a different person than Diego Sanchez Carranza cc Isabel Munoz. Also, in 1644 there is apparently a Pedro Sanchez Carranza purchasing property en el Paso de Mezcala.

http://www.scielo.org.mx/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1665-442020…

I believe that one of our Maria Beatriz was either a child of this other Diego, possibly brother of the younger Diego, or even of this Pedro or another contemporary Sanchez Carranza of this family. What is needed, then is more work on these early Sanchez Carranzas.

This is a very interesting family and I hope we can continue getting closer to filling in the gaps!

Saludos,
Richard

Also, I just went back through the images of the baptisms that Manny provided. I think we can confirm that Juan de Malaber and Juan Sanchez de Lara are two different husbands of Martha Sanchez de Mendoza.

The first clue is that Beatriz Gomez is listed as the "entenada" or step-child of Juan de Malaber. The priest later adds "digo su nieta", but I think he was struggling to find a term to describe their exact relationship (since I don't think entenada generally refers to a step-grandchild).

The second, is less documented (I did not note the source for this). I have listed that Juan Sanchez de Lara died before 1610, which would exclude him from being Juan de Malaber in 1628.

Does anyone have any further documentation that can prove this more definitively?

Richard

Richard,

You mentioned Agustina de Ávalos’s children who use Gómez, do you think Gómez is from Agustina de Ávalos’s husband whoever that is, or do you think they’re still using the Gómez from Beatriz Gómez? Also, it’s possible that Rodolfo H Hernández Chávez was right that Francisco de Ávalos was the husband of Beatriz Sánchez Carranza but that they were wrong about which Francisco de Ávalos. Earlier on this thread Mr. Ricci mentioned a Francisco Gómez Cervantes de Ávalos as the son of Leonel Cervantes Carbajal and Ysabel de Ávalos, do you think he could possibly be the right Francisco de Ávalos? Also if our Beatriz Sánchez Carranza is the daughter of a different Diego Sánchez Carranza, do you have any guess as to who her mother is?

Hi Danny,

I don't have the name of Agustina de Avalos's husband and I haven't seen a document that names him. It was proposed that if Francisco de Avalos cc Maria de Espitia Retemosa was the father of Beatriz Gomez's children then it was possible the Agustina de Avalos Espitia married to Pablo Ramirez (whose familiy appears to have also used Gomez) may be the same as the Agustina de Avalos mentioned in the dispensa you posted listing her as the sister to Bernardino de Avalos.

However, because the Agustina de Avalos married to Pablo Ramirez was born in 1655 and her mother is listed as Maria de Espitia I believe that these are two different Agustinas. This is also why I no longer see the reason to connect Francisco de Avalos with Beatriz Gomez / Maria Sanchez. If there is something I am missing, though, please let me know!

It is still possible she married a Gomez, but it is also possible that her children used Gomez through her and her mother Beatriz. I can't say for sure. I also can't say whether it is another Francisco de Avalos. I just have not seen anything besides Rodolfo H Hernández Chávez's post to link her with any Francisco de Avalos. He does not give a source and it seems like conjecture, which is fine, I just want to try to establish what we know from the documents before proceeding to speculate again.

With that said, I also think it is entirely possible the it could be the Francisco Gomez Cervantes de Avalos mentioned by Mr. Ricci since I have nothing to disprove it. Personally, I am more inclined to look among the Avalos family being studied by Manny which seems to have had a home base in Lagos de Moreno, where Beatriz Gomez was from. I haven't seen anything yet linking the Gomez-Cervantes families with Lagos.

The more likely connection here would not be with Beatriz's husband, but with her daughter Isabel Sanchez's husband Jose Leonel de Cervantes, son of Leonel de Cervantes and Leonor de Orozco. This is another family I have been keeping my eye out on, though I have only made one other possible connection which I will share soon. However, it is for Leonor de Orozco not her husband.

I should clarify a bit about the Sanchez Carranza stuff I posted. I am only proposing some possible clues for discussion, I still do not have any information about the identity of the parents of Beatriz and her siblings. I think that we are getting closer, with the identification of one set of grandparents as probably Juan Sanchez de Lara and Martha Sanchez de Mendoza. However, I do not know whether they are maternal or paternal grandparents. What I am suggesting is that one parent is likely to be a Sanchez Carranza, given the names involved, but that they belong to the generation before the Diego Sanchez Carranza cc Ana Munoz de Hermosillo.

The two Sanchez Carranza males who I listed as potential possibilities (Diego Sanchez Carranza d. 1660 & Pedro Sanchez Carranza) are pure speculation trying to establish options. I would be grateful for anyone who has done any work on the Sanchez Carranza if they would share what they have on the earlier generations living around El Paso de Mescala or Juanacatlan.

The other step would be to try to identify as many of the children of Juan Sanchez de Lara and Martha Sanchez de Mendoza as possible, since like Manny, I only have two confirmed. Though awhile back I did see a Lic. Juan Sanchez de Lara in the early records of Leon, Gto who might have been a child of this couple.

I hope this helps!

Richard

Richard

I think your theory makes sense. Beatriz Gomez was most likely married to an Avalos, possibly Francisco or possibly some other Avalos. She most likely is the daughter of a male Sanchez Carranza and a female Sanchez de Mendoza, who was in turn is the daughter of Juan Sanchez de Lara and Marta Sanchez de Mendoza.

Now, I'm wondering what the relationships are of the other people in her house are and how they fit in to the picture. On that passage from Rodolfo H. Hernandez Chavez, it says: Beatriz Gómez propietaria de una casa en la Villa de los Lagos, descrita en el padrón de 1669 como Casa de María Gómez Viuda”, donde vivía Antonia de Avalos doncella, en compañía de Bernarda Ortiz doncella, y de la “Estancia de San Nicolás de la Ciénega” en la jurisdicción de San Juan/Jalostotitlán, registrada en los padrones de 1670 como “Rancho de Beatriz Gómez”, y en los de 1672, 1673 y 1679 como “Estancia de Beatriz Gómez”, donde vivía en compañía de sus hijos y nietos-, a: Ysabel de Avalos/Ysabel Sanchez Carranza, mujer de José Leonel de Cervantes y Orozco, indiscutiblemente su consanguíneo por ser hijo de Leonel de Cervantes y de Doña Leonor de Orozco; Agustina de Avalos, madre de Juana Gómez; Luisa de Avalos, esposa de José Soto, registrados con rancho propio en 1679; y Bernardino de Avalos, esposo de su consanguínea Doña Josefa Pérez de Bocanegra y Sánchez de Avalos...

In the above passage several people are mentioned. But in the earlier padron of 1669 there's two girls mentioned Antonia de Avalos and Bernarda Ortiz, they were described as doncella's but that doesn't really tell me their age. If they were young, it's possible they were married off by the 1670s padrones. Either way, does anyone know who they are? Antonia de Avalos is most likely a daughter based on the name, but Bernarda Ortiz is interesting to me because it assumes that one of her parents might be an Ortiz, so she most likely is a granddaughter. Assuming, Bernarda was young and was born in the 1650s, her parents most likely were born around the 1620s or 1630, much closer to Beatriz Gomez/Sanchez Carranza/Sanchez de Lara's age, but about a generation later.

There is lots of Ortiz's that have a connection to the Avalos and seemed to intermarry with them, which may also help place our Beatriz Sanchez and her unknown husband Avalos.

In 1618, there's a Maria de Avalos that's baptized: bauticé a María, hija de Gabriel de Avalos y de María de Quezada. Fueron padrinos Alonso Ortiz y Leonor de Quezada mujer de Juan de Ledesma. Is this Alonso Ortiz a parent or relative of Bernarda Ortiz, who most likely is a granddaughter of Beatriz Gomez/Sanchez. Also is the father of the baptized child, Gabriel de Avalos, a relative of the Avalos married to our Beatriz Sanchez/Gomez. There's also a dispensa for a Felipa Ortiz that's married to Alonso de Quesada, another family that repeatedly intermarries with the Avalos:

San Juan de los Lagos. Jal. Agosto 16 de 1715. Exp 5 - Dispensa de tercero con
cuarto grado de consanguinidad. - En el Santuario de Nuestra Señora de San Juan,
se levantó la información de Bernardo de Quesada, de 21 años de edad, hijo
legítimo de Alonso de Quesada, difunto y de Felipa Ortiz, españoles y vecinos de
esu feligresia; con Dorotea de Ornelas, de 20 años de edad, hija legítima de
Andrés de Ornelas y de María de las Nieves, difuntos, españoles vecinos de esta
feligresia. Declaración de Diego de Escoto, español de 54 años de edad: Que el
abuelo de Dorotea de Ornelas, llamado Alvaro de Ornelas, y la bisabuela de
Bernardo de Quesada, llamada Leonor de Ornelas, eran hermanos carnales, y que el
dicho Alvaro de Ornelas, tuvo por su hijo a Andrés de Omelas y éste a Dorotea
de Ornelas, y la dicha Leonor de Ornelas, tuvo por su hija a Luisa de Aguirre, y
ésta tuvo por hijo a Alonso de Quesada, y el dicho tuvo por su hijo a Bernardo
de Quesada. 10 fojas.

Also on this dispensa, another Escoto is mentioned.

Great work, all of you!

From this and the Nicolas Martin thread, I think we can all agree that Maria Beatriz Sanchez Gomez and Maria de Espitia y Retamosa are not the same person, and that if they were both married to a Francisco de Avalos, he could not be the same person, either. This second Francisco de Avalos might be a son of Baltasar de Avalos Tovar cc Juana Ruiz de Aldana, as some of their children were padrinos for his. I’m still working on that, I’ll post when I find something.

Maria de Espitia y Retamosa, on the other hand, I think I know who she is: with her “Retamosa,” and her daughter’s use of “Macias” in the 1669 Lagos padron, she’s definitely a Macias Retamosa. She was also called “Maria de Torres,” on her son Francisco’s marriage record. My first thought was that she descends from one of the Macias-Ramirez de Tavera y Torres marriages, but that wouldn’t explain “Espitia”; there’d have to be 1 more generation before her, and that would be a tight squeeze, with our Maria de Espitia being born no later than 1630. But then, checking my tree, I saw that Phelipe Macias Retamosa had a daughter named Juana Macias, who married Hernando de Torres Espitia, 11 Jan 1615, in Aguascalientes. 7-7-7 jackpot! Btw, this Juana Macias was not a daughter of Maria de Tavera, since Phelipe Macias did not marry her until Jul 1618. Was Phelipe married previously, or was Juana Macias natural? Anyone? I digress. From the time line, locations, and combination of surnames, I think this is the most likely origin for Maria de Torres Espitia y Retamosa cc Francisco de Avalos. Now we just need the documentation to seal it up.

Speaking of Baltasar de Avalos Tovar cc Juana Ruiz de Aldana, I just noticed, from the padrones, that both they and Beatriz Gomez & company moved from Santa Maria to San Juan de Lagos, between 1669 and 1672. Coincidence? This also ties into the Escoto de “Tovar” connection, too.

Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

This is great information. It's looking more like Beatriz Gomez/Sanchez's wife might be a son of Baltasar de Avalos Tovar and Juana Ruiz de Aldana.

I saw this dispensa below for a Sanchez Carranza, a daughter of Diego Sanchez Carranza and Ana Muñoz de Hermosillo and am posting it in case it helps others put some pieces together:

Guadalajara. Jal. Marzo 27 de 1686 Exp 128.- Dispensa de tercero con cuarto
grado de consanguinidad por parte paterna y materna, y solicitud de dispensa de
Bañas para antes del matrimonio - En la Ciudad de Guadalajara, en 27 de marzo de
1686, se dió comisión especial al Cura de la feligresía de Xalostotitlan, para
que levante la información sobre el parentesco de Thomás de Páez de 21 años de
edad, originario del Pueblo de Xalostotitlan, hijo legítimo de Francisco de
Páez, difunto y de Francisca Sánchez Carranza, vecinos de dicha feligresía
quien pretende casarse con Francisca de Torres, de 21 años de edad, orginaria
de Xalostotitlan, hija legitima de Joseph de Lomelín, difunto y de Michaela de
Hermosillo, vecinos de dicha jurisdicción En el Pueblo de Xalostotitlan. en 17
de abril de 1686, se levantó la declaración del pretenso: Por cuanto Joseph de
Lomelín, padre de Francisca de Torres, y Francisco de Páez, padre de Thomás de
Paez, eran hijos de dos hermanas llamadas María de Benavides y Gerónima de
Benavides, habidas de legítimo matrimonio. Y Francisca Sánchez Carranza, madre
del pretenso es hija legítima de Ana Muñoz, prima hermana de Michaela de
Hermosillo, madre legítima de Francisca de Torres. Y por cuanto el susodicho
pretenso no es del todo legítimo español, porque tiene parte de indio de los que
comunmente llaman mestizos, y la dicha Francisca de Torres, es legítima española
y emparentada con los más vecinos gente noble, y por esta razón se teme les
estorben el matrimonio que con ella pretende contraer Declaración de Marcos
Carranza, español de 50 años de edad, pariente de ambos pretensos: El pretenso
es hijo de una hermana de este testigo, y la pretensa es hija de una tía de este
testigo prima hermana de su madre llamada Ana Muñoz, y que Francisco de Páez
padre del pretenso y Joseph de Lomelín, padre de la pretensa, eran tío y
sobrino, respecto de que Domingo de Lomelín, abuelo paterno de la contrayente y
francisco de Páez, padre de Thomás de Páez, eran primos hermanos. Domingo de
Lomelín tuvo a Joseph de Lomelín, y éste tuvo a Francisca de Torres, pretensa Y
Francisco de Páez tuvo a Thomás de Páez, el pretenso. Y Micaela de Hermosillo,
tuvo a Francisca de Torres, la pretensa Y Ana Muñoz, tuvo a Francisca
Sánchez Carranza, y ésta tuvo a Thomás de Páez, el pretenso Se otorgó la
dispensa en la Ciudad de Guadalajara, en 6 de junio de 1686, y licencia para
que los case el Cura del Pueblo de Xalostotitlán 13 fojas.

Hi all,

I was looking at these families and wonder what people think ablout the Beatriz Carranza that’s married to Alonso Muñoz. Also, is it possible that there’s actually more than one Beatriz Sánchez / María Gómez that we are conflating? I’m not sure all these timelines work.
--
Danny C. Alonso

This is a very interesting discussion. I’ve only had time to briefly review the information and also wonder if there may be more than one Beatriz Gomez aka Maria Sanchez. These are fairly common names. I’m not sure what the connection is of Beatriz Carranza that’s married to Alonso Munoz to our Beatriz Sanchez Carranza, but if nothing else they’re certainly related. I notice a child of Beatriz Carranza and Alonso Munoz uses Hermosillo, does anyone know if that’s from the Munoz de Hermosillo or through Beatriz Carranza?

I'm definitely starting to think there also might be more than one Maria Sanchez/Beatriz Gomez. I was trying to look for information online searching for various versions of the names Beatriz Sanchez Carranza, Maria Sanchez de Lara, etc... and I found different passages, all from Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia. They're all from snippet view, so they're incomplete, but trying to piece them together, I'm not sure that they're all the same people, at least according to Mariano Gonzalez Leal:

first passage:
*Además de los doce hijos legítimos anteriores, Juan II González de Hermosillo tuvo dos más, fuera de matrimonio: n) Ana Muñoz, o González, mestiza. La tuvo en la india Magdalena María, cacica de Jalostotitlán" y casó con el rico mestizo Diego Sánchez-Carranza, fallecido en San Juan de Juanacatlán y sepultado en Jalostotitlán el 22 de octubre de 1669. Fueron vecinos de Jalostotitlán.*

The above passage seems to come before this next passage:
*Don Juan III González de Hermosillo procreó a: f) Beatriz Mendoza, mestiza, que dejó descendencia de apellido Sánchez-Carranza.*

Because these are snippet views I can't quite tell where Don Juan III Gonzalez de Hermosillo fits into these passages, whether he's the child of Ana Munoz and Diego Sanchez Carranza or whether he's the child of Don Juan II Gonzalez de Hermosillo. But the above passage seems to be referring to our Beatriz Sanchez de Mendoza/Sanchez de Lara.

But then there's this passage in the same book that specifically mentions a Maria Sanchez de Lara, which seems to be different from the Beatriz Mendoza mentioned earlier in the book:
Francisco de *Ávalos* y su esposa *María Sánchez de Lara* fueron vecinos de la jurisdicción de Santa María de los Lagos en los años centrales del siglo XVII. Procrearon a los siguientes vástagos, bautizados en Lagos en las fechas *que se indican: a) Bernardino*, nacido hacia 1650, esposo de Josefa Pérez de Bocanegra y Sánchez de Ávalos, acaso su consanguínea, hija de Nicolás Pérez de Bocanegra y de Magdalena Sánchez de Ávalos (sepultada en San Juan de los Lagos el 13 de diciembre de 1667); b) Juan, el 23 de octubre de 1651; c) Francisco, el 20 de octubre de 1652; d) Agustina, el 2 de octubre de 1655, casada con N. Gómez; e) Magdalena, el 30 de septiembre de 1659; f) Isabel de Ávalos y Sánchez de Lara, esposa de don N. Vázquez de Ávila, con descendencia.

Hopefully, someone might be able to unravel this and tell me what's going on, since there seems to be two names mentioned in the same book that don't seem to be the same person according to Mariano Gonzalez Leal.

Hi Danny,

Although Retonos can be an incredibly helpful resource, it is not perfect and in some places is more of a speculative piecing together. Its sheer size, however, excuses it from not being comprehensive.

Gonzalez Leal in Retonos has a Beatriz Carranza cc Alonso Munoz as the daughter of Diego Sanchez Carranza and Ana Munoz Hermosillo. He also says the Isabel Sanchez cc Jose Cervantes Leonel was her illegitimate daughter (not with Alonso Munoz), however he doesn't cite a source and I have not seen anything to confirm this. There are also other reasons to question this, which I listed earlier in the thread.

While it is definitely probable that there are multiple women living around the same time using the names Beatriz Sanchez / Gomez and Maria Sanchez, I think we should be careful about lumping them all together and attributing these references to the same person.

The Juan III Gonzalez de Hermosillo was married to Leonor Carvajal and was the son of Juan II Gonzalez de Hermosillo and Ana II Gonzalez Florida. As you mentioned, Gonzalez Leal notes that Juan III had an illegitimate daughter named Beatriz Mendoza who had Sanchez Carranza descendants. There is no citation for where he got this information, but it seems to be from a dispensa given the wording. I would be very interested to know who these descendants are but this Beatriz is probably not our Beatriz Gomez / Sanchez, she would have been born too late.

Gonzalez Leal's chapter on the Avalos is also much more a preliminary guide than anything definitive. This grouping of Francisco de Avalos and Maria Sanchez de Lara seems to come from a communication of the author with Jaime Holcombe. However, this is a conflation of the children of Francisco de Avalos with Maria de Espitia Retemosa (who never seems to have used Sanchez de Lara) and the children of our Maria Beatriz Gomez / Sanchez. My post earlier in the thread plus the discussion in other threads on Nuestros Ranchos suggest that there is no reason to combine the two and their original grouping by Holcombe was likely an error.

It also does not make sense that Isabel de Avalos Sanchez de Lara married a Vazquez de Avila, since her son Miguel is the one that marries a Vazquez de Avila. Gonzalez Leal cites Luz Montejano: 580/2928. Can anyone look this up?

I hope this helps!

Thanks Richard, this is very helpful. I guess I originally thought maybe he had sources or information that we didn't have. But I see that his book is more of a helpful guide than a definite for sure fact. Recently, I've noticed more than a few errors in Retonos, so I understand this now.

Paige,

Beatriz Sanchez Carranza who was married to Alonso Munoz de Leon did have children who used the Hermosillo last name. This is because Beatriz's mother Ana Munoz de Hermosillo (m. Diego Sanchez Carranza) was the daughter of Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo and an indian, Maria Magdalena. This is the same Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo who was married to Ana Gonzalez Florida and son of another Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo and Ana Munoz.

This same Beatriz died in 1710 in Guadalajara (bottom right)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-D2Q3-T?i=458&wc=3JW5-JWL%3…

Here is what I have for the descendants of Diego Sanchez Carranza (d. 1669) and Ana Munoz de Hermosillo:

1. Marcos Sanchez Carranza (b. ~ 1636)

2. Magdalena Sanchez Carranza m. Martin Casillas y Cabrera
...a. Maria Cayetana Gonzalez

3. Ana Munoz Gonzalez de Hermosillo Carranza (d ~ 1670) m. Luis Gonzalez Dominguez (d ~ 1690)
...a. Florencia Gonzalez Dominguez
...b. Bernardo Gonzalez Dominguez
...c. Luis Gonzalez Dominguez
...d. Salvador Gonzalez Dominguez

4. Beatriz Sanchez Carranza (d. 1710) m. Alonso Munoz de Leon
...a. Leonor Munoz de Hermosillo Carranza
...b. Alonso Munoz de Leon
...c. Diego Carranza
...d. Ana Munoz
...e. Rosa Munoz de Leon

5. Andres Sanchez Carranza m. Maria Gonzalez
...a. Diego Sanchez Carranza Gonzalez
...b. Ines Gonzalez

6. Francisca Sanchez Carranza de Hermosillo m. Francisco Paez
...a. Francisca Paez
...b. Geronima Paez
...c. Pedro Sanchez de Paez
...d. Josefa Maria de la Paz Paez
...e. Tomas Paez

I do descend from Sanchez Carranza but unfortunately I haven't done too much research on the family. Based on the timelines thought, I would think the Beatriz mentioned in my post cannot be the same Beatriz that started this thread. Seems like the Beatriz that started the thread was a contemporary to the Diego Sanchez Carranza in my post.

Side note, for those interested in Luis Gonzalez Dominguez, he first married Ana Munoz Gonzalez de Hermosillo Carranza of this post. After her death, Luis married Ana Rodriguez de Frias Hijar y Mesa. After his death, ~ 1690, Ana Rodriguez de Frias Hijar y Mesa married Juan de Torres. I figured I would let you guys know that because I placed the two Ana's as being the same for the longest time and was totally confused by the multiple surnames until I figured out they were two different people!

Hi Alex,

I descend from one of the Avalos, a child of Beatriz Sanchez de Lara / Sanchez Carranza. Since the only thing that's really known is that Beatriz Sanchez de Lara is the granddaughter of Marta Sanchez de Mendoza, I'm guessing that my Avalos is the daughter of an unknown Avalos and Beatriz Sanchez de Lara, who in turn is the daughter of an unknown Sanchez Carranza and an unknown Sanchez de Mendoza, who in turn is the daughter of Juan de Sanchez de Lara and Marta Sanchez de Mendoza. I'm just wondering if that's what other people are thinking.

This is how I see it too. I descend from Agustina de Avalos, who i presently have listed as the daughter of Maria Beatriz Sanchez de Lara/Sanchez Carranza and Francisco de Avalos, although Francisco de Avalos may be incorrect, it's certainly an Avalos and probably a brother of Baltazar de Avalos Tovar. I also agree that Maria Beatriz Sanchez de Lara is probably the daughter of a Sanchez Carranza and Sanchez de Mendoza, one of whom is either the daughter or son of Juan Sanchez de Lara and Marta Sanchez de Mendoza, but i do agree it's probably a daughter of Juan Sanchez de Lara and Marta Sanchez de Mendoza, although so far it's still just a guess, but I do think it's what most makes sense.

Hey all,

I was revisiting this information and trying to absorb it all. I have some questions and am hoping people may have solved some of these mysteries since this was first posted. First question I have is several times it's mentioned in this thread that people now believe Agustina de Avalos that's the mother of Juana Gomez is not the same as the Agustina de Avalos that's daughter of Francisco de Avalos because Maria de Espitia is most likely not the same person as Beatriz Sanchez or am I wrong? But my question is do we know that for sure? Our Beatriz Sanchez has been identified as and uses the names Beatriz Sanchez, Beatriz Sanchez de Carranza, Beatriz Sanchez de Mendoza, Beatriz Sanchez de Lara, Beatriz Gomez, Maria Gomez, Maria Sanchez, Maria Sanchez de Lara, so why is it wrong to think she may have used the name Maria de Espitia or am I missing something?

Also in this thread it's said that the Agustina de Avalos that's married to Pablo Ramirez is not the mother of Juana Gomez because this Agustina de Avalos is identified as a daughter of Maria de Espitia, but I also have the same question regarding this Agustina de Avalos which is how do we know for sure that she's not the same Agustina de Avalos that's mother to Juana Gomez when we know that Agustina de Avalos that's married to Pablo Ramirez also had children that used the name Gomez?

My next question is regarding Bernarda Ortiz mentioned in the passage below who I'm guessing could be the daughter of our Beatriz Sanchez de Lara/Gomez and how she might be related to Maria de Espitia. Earlier in this thread Manny mentions that Maria de Espitia descends from Hernando de Torres Espitia and Juana Macias. That reminded me that I descend from this same couple through an unrelated person named Juana Marcela Lopez born in 1680 who also uses several of these same names including Macias, Mendoza, etc. seen here: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/L%C3%B3pez-2156 This Juana Marcela Lopez is the daughter of Juan Lopez Valadez born around 1645 and Margarita Ortiz born in 1650. Juan Lopez Valadez is the son of Antonio Sanchez and Bernardina de Torres. Antonio Sanchez is the son of Miguel Sanchez born around 1580 and Isabel Hernandez. I'm guessing this Miguel Sanchez is a Sanchez de Mendoza since Juana Marcela Lopez also uses the name Mendoza. Juana Marcela Lopez's paternal grandmother Bernardina de Torres is of course the daughter of Hernando de Torres Espitia and Juana Macias. Juana Marcela Lopez's maternal grandmother is Isabel Ortiz aka Ortiz de Anda. All this may be uneccesary information, but since most families in this time intermarry with one another it makes me wonder whether Bernarda Ortiz that's listed in the house of Beatriz Sanchez has a similar ancestry.

Reference:
Francisco de Avalos, esposo de María de Espitia, quien según investigaciones de Don Jaime Holcombe procreó en Beatriz Sánchez de Lara –también conocida como Beatriz Sánchez de Carranza, Beatriz Sánchez de Mendoza ó Beatriz Gómez propietaria de una casa en la Villa de los Lagos, descrita en el padrón de 669 como “Casa de María Gómez Viuda”, donde vivía Antonia de Avalos doncella, en compañía de Bernarda Ortiz doncella, y de la “Estancia de San Nicolás de la Ciénega” en la jurisdicción de San Juan/Jalostotitlán, registrada en los padrones de 1670 como “Rancho de Beatriz Gómez”, y en los de 1672, 1673 y 1679 como “Estancia de Beatriz Gómez”, donde vivía en compañía de sus hijos y nietos-, a: Ysabel de Avalos/Ysabel Sanchez Carranza, mujer de José Leonel de Cervantes y Orozco, indiscutiblemente su consanguíneo por ser hijo de Leonel de Cervantes y de Doña Leonor de Orozco; Agustina de Avalos, madre de Juana Gómez...

Hi Paige,

I didn't realize it's been over two years since we discussed Maria Sanchez/Beatriz Sanchez/Beatriz Gomez and sadly, I haven't gotten any further. Hopefully someone has. But regarding your questions, let me say first that Maria Sanchez/Beatriz Sanchez/Beatriz Gomez is not the same as Maria de Espitia, although they are contemporaries and were both married to men named Avalos and possibly both married to two different men named Francisco de Avalos. Also, both Maria de Espitia and Maria Sanchez/Beatriz Sanchez/Beatriz Gomez had daughters named Agustina de Avalos. But, since Maria Sanchez/Beatriz Sanchez/Beatriz Gomez is listed as a widow simultaneously with Francisco de Avalos and Maria de Espitia having children, then Maria Sanchez/Beatriz Sanchez/Beatriz Gomez and Maria de Espitia can't be the same person. And, since the Agustina de Avalos that's married to Pablo Ramirez is listed as the daughter of Maria de Espitia, she also can't be the same person as the Agustina de Avalos that's the mother of Juana Gomez/Avalos. Although both families are probably related and, maybe even closely, related and that' why they're often confused for one another. But I think your point about Bernarda Ortiz makes sense.

Danny

Throwing out some possible connections:
Francisco de Avalos aka “Francisco Gómez Cervantes De Avalos” is the son of Leonel Cervantes Carbajal and Ysabel De Avalos
The Cervantes surname was often written Gomez Cervantes.

I don’t know if this is the same Francisco De Avalos is the same one that may be married to Ysabel Sanchez aka “Sanchez De Lara” aka “Mendoza”

I wonder if Carranza was misread and what was originally written was Carvajal.

Rick A. Ricci

Manny,

I have studied the Cervantes y Carvajal family extensively and am interested in this Ávalos connection. I've had the line for many years in my archives, but never understood who this Isabel de Ávalos was or where she came from. As you may know the surname "Cervantes y Carvajal" originated in Mexico City when Leonel de Cervantes whom I have listed as II Mayorazgo (although there are conflicting documents as to the numerical succession) and his wife María de Carvajal married ca. 1560 in Mexico City.

It appears certain males in this family used Leonel de Cervantes as a surname, others Gómez de Cervantes, but in most cases Cervantes y Carvajal, in the end they are all the same family. In my notes, I have Isabel de Avalos as a daughter of Gonzalo de Avalos and Juana de Jérez, but it is unsourced and wish I would have taken note of that at the time, this line is from many years ago. You have her under different parents which fits the story currently in this post. I could be wrong, but would love to discuss these pieces further and see if it can help us on our search. Am I understanding correctly that this Avalos line marrying into the Cervantes-Carvajal line is the same Avalos family from Santa María de los Lagos? I just find the connection fascinating!

The Juan de Cervantes y Carvajal you mention is likely the one baptized in 3 Feb 1565 at the Santa Veracruz church in Mexico City, son of Leonel de Cervantes and María de Carvajal. I say likely because I have not been able to locate either of his marriages, but due to the time frame, location, surname and social nucleus in Mexico City, it is likely. I have him married firstly to María de Mendoza who had only one daughter I can document:

1. María de Cervantes y Carvajal baptized on 26 Jan 1595-Asunción, CDMX. Padrinos: Alonso de Valdés y Mariana de Mendoza

I am not sure who this María de Mendoza is, but is probably related to the madrina Da. Mariana de Mendoza in some degree.
Juan de Cervantes y Carvajal woud have married secondly to Isabel de Avalos and had at least four children I am able to document:

1. Luisa de Cervantes y Carvajal b. 14 Jul 1603 - Asunción, CDMX Padrinos: Leonel de Cervantes y Margarita de Avalos. Her uncle in some degree (probably a great granduncle) Lic. D. Juan de Cervantes baptized her, it will become apparent a few lines down.

2. Juan Leonel Gómez de Cervantes y Carvajal b. ca. 1604 and married on 12 Jan 1628 - Asunción, CDMX to his relative Bernardina de Andrada Cervantes y Betanzos Quiñones.

3. Juana de Cervantes y Carvajal 17 Mar 1605 - Asunción, CDMX Padrinos: Leonel de Cervantes y Margarita de Avalos.

4. María de Cervantes y Carvajal b. 9 Oct 1607 - Asunción, CDMX. On this occasion she is also baptized by her great granduncle Lic. D. Juan de Cervantes and he mentioned that her father is "mi sobrino." Padrinos: D. Francisco de Trejo Carvajal y Da. Margarita de Avalos.

As we can see Margarita de Avalos plays a key role in this family on several occasions and am under the impression she is a sister of Isabel de Avalos.

I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts!

Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino

Manny and Daniel,

Here is the whole passage from the genealogist Rodolfo H Hernández Chavez, it seems to be a lot of speculation but he quotes Jaime Holcomb and Mariano Gonzalez Leal too. I'm not sure how much it helps but maybe it will help some people :

"...También originario de Úbeda, en los Reinos de Castilla, fue Don Gonzalo de Avalos, encomendero de Zacapu en Michoacán, hijo de Pedro de Avalos y de María de Muñoz, hijodalgo notorios; a quien el Gran Maestro Don Mariano González Leal señala como posible tronco de la familia “Avalos-Ludeña”, “Avalos-Villaseñor” ó “Avalos-Tovar”, y de quien al respecto escribió en su magna obra de Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia: “Gonzalo de Avalos fue genearca de una vieja familia radicada sucesivamente en Michoacán, Maravatio y Queretaro, enlazadas sucesivamente con los Villaseñor-Cervantes a quienes correspondía el apellido de Tovar”. siendo de llamar profundamente la atención, que la rama alteña procede de Alonso de Avalos y Doña Catarina de Orozco, registrados en las primeras décadas del siglo XVII en los libros sacramentales de Santa María de los Lagos y avecindados por lo menos hasta 1649 en la jurisdicción de Jalostotitlán donde a 5 leguas se ubica la “Estancia de Alonso de Avalos”, lugar en el que vivía en compañía de su mujer Doña Catalina de Orozco, y algunos de sus hijos que permanecían aún sin casar; debiendo ser, tal vez sus hijos mayores: Gabriel de Avalos, casado el 26 de Noviembre de 1613 en Lagos con Doña María de Quesada y Sánchez de Mendoza –hija de Don Alonso de Quesada y de Doña Juana Baptista Hernández de Arellano y Hurtado de Mendoza-; Baltasar de Avalos-Tovar, Casado el 8 de Mayo de 1618 con Doña Juana Ruiz de Aldana quienes darán origen a la “Estancia de Baltasar de Avalos”, registrada así en el padrón laguense de 1669 y conocida posteriormente como “Lo de Avalos”; Gaspar de Avalos-Ludeña casado por 1620 con Doña Luisa de Quesada y Sánchez de Mendoza, hermana de Doña María de Quesada ó María de Mendoza; Doña Juana de Avalos, madre de Juan de Orozco que casó con María de Quesada y Alvarado, hija de Francisco de Quesada y Sánchez de Mendoza –hermano de Doña María y de Doña Luisa de Quesada-, y de su esposa Catalina de los Ángeles Alvarado; Doña Ysabel Avalos-Ludeña / “Ysabel de Orozco”, esposa de Don Sebastián Pérez de Ortega; y a caso Doña María de Ludeña, casada en Patzcuaro y, velada el 26 de Noviembre de 1615 en Lagos con Rodrigo de Órnelas y Mendoza… ¿Tal vez?, debamos de incluir como hijo de Alonso de Avalos y de Catalina de Orozco, a Francisco de Avalos, esposo de María de Espitia, quien según investigaciones de Don Jaime Holcombe procreó en Beatriz Sánchez de Lara –también conocida como Beatriz Sánchez de Carranza, Beatriz Sánchez de Mendoza ó Beatriz Gómez propietaria de una casa en la Villa de los Lagos, descrita en el padrón de 669 como “Casa de María Gómez Viuda”, donde vivía Antonia de Avalos doncella, en compañía de Bernarda Ortiz doncella, y de la “Estancia de San Nicolás de la Ciénega” en la jurisdicción de San Juan/Jalostotitlán, registrada en los padrones de 1670 como “Rancho de Beatriz Gómez”, y en los de 1672, 1673 y 1679 como “Estancia de Beatriz Gómez”, donde vivía en compañía de sus hijos y nietos-, a: Ysabel de Avalos/Ysabel Sanchez Carranza, mujer de José Leonel de Cervantes y Orozco, indiscutiblemente su consanguíneo por ser hijo de Leonel de Cervantes y de Doña Leonor de Orozco; Agustina de Avalos, madre de Juana Gómez; Luisa de Avalos, esposa de José Soto, registrados con rancho propio en 1679; y Bernardino de Avalos, esposo de su consanguínea Doña Josefa Pérez de Bocanegra y Sánchez de Avalos. Todos ellos referidos en las informaciones matrimoniales como “hermanos carnales”, cuyos descendientes según los propios registros sacramentales hicieron uso del apellido compuesto “Avalos-Villaseñor...”.

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