I could see the link
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ II Skyrocket™, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
Subject: Research Digest, Vol 87, Issue 4
From: research-requ
Hello
Its image 225 of 334.
Hello all:
The term may be traslated as "taken for spanish" or "considered as spanish". So, to the priest and their neighbours they looked as "spanish/spaniard" in the castas system, but there was no easy way to prove it.
Victoriano Navarro
Thank you, Victoriano, That is a great help!
-Scott
Jose de Jesus Barba Ornelas
Estimado ScottStockweII62,no se si te correponde a ti la pregunta "Castas", tratare de contestarte de la siguiente manera: Para poder entender el concepto de castas, debemos de considerar en primer lugar porque se origino. Yo considero que los religiosos de las diferentes ordenes que vinieron a la conquista, fueron antes que religiosos,todos o algunos; personas educadas en el metodo cientifico o metodo llamado de alguna manera,en esa epoca, porque los que tenemos alguna relacion en observar nuestro entorno y la naturaleza, nosotros sabemos que sin un metodo, no se puede observar. En base a esta premisa; yo observo que en esa epoca los religiosos encargados de llevar los registros parroquiales de la epoca.Tenian como antecedente, en Europa, la diversidad de razas y el resultado de sus cruzas.Al llegar a America tuvieron como punto de partida; tres razas: La indigena originaria, la europea conquistadora y dueña y la incorporada a la fuerza de Africa, la raza negra. con el transcurso del tiempo los religiosos al proporcionar los santos sacramentos de la Yglesia; obsevaron de acuerdo a su metodo, que las personas; por diferentes razones y de diferente raza empezaron a casarse entre ellas. El problema vino con el resultado de estos matrimonios entre personas de diferentes razas; en los productos de estos matrimonios. A los niños nacidos de estas uniones; entonces como se les deberia de considerar: Y asi de la union de un europeo con una indigena se le denomino mestiso, y de la union de un europeo con una negra, se le llamo mulato. De este universo de uniones podemos considerar los siguientes resultados: de la union de un mestiso con una negra, de un mulato con una india,etc.Y finalmente los resultados de la cruza entre los resultados de cierta mezcla con los resultados de la mezcla de otro tipo. con este panorama te daras cuenta del problema de los religiosos encargados de llevar los registros parroquiales. Segun el concilio de trento, en Italia aproximadamente en el año 1350. Pero el ingenio de estos religiosos resolvio el problema con el termino "CASTAS", tal y como fue y siempre a sido en la India. Claro que con los matices del dinero, ya que existieron cruzados de diferentes razas que lograron burlar todas las trabas legales y recibieron honores. como observaras este es un simple resumen de lo que paso en Iberoamerica en su historia y deja como resultado algo de luz, pero deja mas preguntas que respuestas. todo lo anterior dicho con todo respeto para quien se sienta involucrado, pero dicho en base al metodo cientifico sin ninguna intencion racial. Esperando que lo anterior te sirva de algo, estoy a tus ordenes para lo que se ofrezca.
A T E N T A M E N T E
JOSE DE JESUS BARBA ORNELAS
Jose:
Muchas gracias por su atención.
-Scott
Hi Members, Can someone please read over a Dispensa for me. Really having a hard time with the writing. It is for Miguel Nunez and Catarina Ponce de Leon.
If you could please post a direct link to the document that would make the task easier to start.
Have a nice Easter!
Victoriano Navarro
I agree with Victoriano. When help is requested on a film whose digitized page number is already known it better to include the URL or web address of the of said document. This is due to the fact that those that are willing to help should be able to just paste and copy a link (or highlight and open in new page or tab) in order to be taken directly to the document which allows more time to study the document and less time searching for it.
Using a link tells us the locality, state, and the name of the film. Going to the first or second image of the digitized film we can see the film number. Therefore a link, URL, or web address to a document helps immensely to save time and provides all other necessary information.
Once I have time, I plan on making a guide on how to include a link and also how to highlight and go to another link for those that haven't learned how to do that.
In the meantime the link is the following
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18411-51495-85?cc=1874591&wc…
Armando
Thanks for the link Armando. This is what I can read:
Nochistlán, November 8, 1711
Groom: Miguel Núñez de Miranda, widower of Agustina Macías.
Bride: Cathalina de San Juan Ponce de León, neighbour of Michoacán, daughter of Sebastián Ponce de León, deceased, & Juana de Medina. Her great grandfather was Juan Núñez del Monte, legitimate brother of Jacinta de Oliva, great grandmother of the groom.
They don't seem to give any further genealogical details.
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro
Sorry Guys, I do not know how to add the link. Thank you both for the help. That would be great Armando if you could make a guide to help those of us who do not know. The dispensa is in Claudia's website.
Lisa
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18684-23858-66?cc=1874591&wc…
In looking at the record above. Right side page, last two records.
Hi Ed,
You are welcome. A couple of images before your record there is a marriage of Lorenzo Juan and Ma. Magdalena "criados los dos de Juan Gomez", and on the side it says "de la familia de Jº Gomez". So yes, it seems that they were servants of the family written on the side. According to one source, my Navarro branch is supposed to come from Ocotlán, although I have not been able to prove it. I wonder if this Diego Navarro is related to me.
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro
Hi Ed,
At the end of the third line one can read the word "criado", and I think the word you are reading as "esclavos" is really "criados".
The world criado has currently two meanings: "criado por" indeed means "raised by", but "criado de" means "servant of".
It doesn't show in this document, but "criado en la casa de" might mean either "raised in the house of" or "servant in the house of".
Best regards,
Victoriano Navarro
Thanks, Victoriano.
Reading the document again is interesting. Diego Peres (my 9th GGFather)was a "criado de" Diego Nabarro and Geronima's parents (Lorenso and Ana [10th GGparents) were "criados de" Diego Nabarro.
Now I see the significance of the note on the side of the record "Famiia de Diego Nabarro."
I guess they were all servants of Nabarro.
Thanks again, I appreciate the help.
I have found this site to be helpful in many ways.
Ed
I'm having such a hard time understanding this marriage document of my ancestor Antonio Gutierres & Francisca Gonzalez?So Antonio was from Cuquio widow of Leonor Ortiz D Rubalcaba and she was also fro
Antonio Gutierres & Francisca Gonzalez
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18575-48548-49?cc=1874591&wc…
Cambié un poco la ortografía escribí las palabras completas cuando hay una abreviatura. (Francisca era de ésta, es decir de la misma parroquia de San Francisco de Tepatitlán en el Pueblo de Buena Vista) Buena Suerte
En el Pueblo de San Francisco de Tecpatitlan en 13 dias del mes de septiembre de 1733 años casé por palabras de presente y velé in facie Eclesiae a Antonio Gutiérrez español viudo de Leonor Ortis de Robalcaba vecino de la feligresía de San Felipe de Cuquio en Aposol y a Francisca González así mismo española de ésta en el puesto de Buena Vista habiendo precedido sus declaraciones información de libertad y soltería la del parentesco en cuarto grado (de) consanguinidad y causas que se presentaron para la dispensa que consiguieron del Muy Ilustre Sr Venerable Deán y cabildo cede vacante de este obispado de la Nueva Galicia y las demás obligaciones por derecho dispuestas de que no resultó otro ningún impedimento canónico distinto del dispensado, fueron testigos Joseph Romero? Nicolás Ramires Españoles y otros muchos. Padrinos Pedro Gutiérrez y Petronila de Servantes Y para que Conste lo firmé Ut supra
Juan de Portugal Lozano
Jorge Elias
Miami, FL
Jorge,
Thanks a lot for re writing this for me to understand really appreciate it.I had a question so it mentions that Francisca Gonzalez is in (cuarto grado de consanguinidad)i tried looking through the Guadalajara Dispensas and found nothing their what do you suggest I should do?
Abram Flores
-----Original Message-----
From: mimilozano@somosprimos.com [mailto:mimilozano@somosprimos.com]
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 7:48 PM
To: undisclosed-recipients:
Subject: Somos Primos April 2013 151
The line I am researching is documented back to Antonio Sermeño (bap. 17 Feb 1679, Santa María de los Lagos), who married Augustina Magaña, 22 Jun 1711 in Jalos.
I should point out that there is another María de Ornelas in Lagos at about the same time as the above-named couple; but she is married to 'Juan Pascual', and they are listed as 'Yndios' in the records. I make this distinction because the Antonio Sermeño I am working on, whose mother is also María de Ornelas, was listed as 'Español' in his baptismal record in 1679.
Lawrence Bouett
Orinda, CA
Does anyone have any further information about the above-captioned couple? They had at least six documented children, including Augustina (ca. 1683), Rosa María (bau. 21 Feb 1696), Petrona (nac.
Lawrence,
I descend from this couple on my maternal side. I had originally suspected that Andres Magana could have been from Zamora, Michoacan. I had seen lots of migration from Zamora and to the eastern part of Los Altos. My father's family Mendez de Torres were one the principal families of the Obispado de Michoacan, and they intermarried extensively with families who came from Santa Maria de los Lagos, like Gonzalez de Hermosillo, Munoz de Xerez, Alcala y Mendoza, Hernandez Gamino, etc. These families arrived in Zamora around the mid 18th century.
There was an Andres Magana in Zamora, but never had the time to follow that link. Perhaps you may have the luck.
Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino
Daniel,
I was poking around FamilySearch, which lists an Andrés Magaña baptised in San Miguel, Tlazazalca, Michoacán, 20 Jun 1660, parents Andrés Magaña and Beatrís de Bargos; there is also a Roque Jacinto Magaña, baptised 30 Aug 1655, in the same place and to the same parents. The FHL Film is 643759 in both cases; however, I have reviewed this film from 1653 through 1662 and I have not been able to locate either baptism.
What makes this otherwise 'shot in the dark' interesting is that one of the padrinos at the baptism of Petrona Magaña Ramires, daughter of Andrés Magaña and Ana Gonçales, on 01 Nov 1698, is Roque Magaña.
Notice that the mother's name is given as Ana Gonçales, not Ana Ramires or Ana Ramires de Hermosillo; but the mother of Rosa María, baptised 21 Feb 1696 is Ana Ramires; the mother's name for the other five children is given variously as Gonsales (1704) or Ramires (1706, 1708, and 1712). Of the six baptisms, the first two do not give a location and the last four give 'el Saus' as the location.
I think it is reasonable to conclude that all of these births are to the same two parents, namely Andrés Magaña and Ana Ramires de Hermosillo, although I cannot explain the Ramires/Gonçales/Gonsales differences.
The point here is the reference to Roque Magaña in the 1698 baptism, which, if he is confirmed as the brother of Andrés Magaña, as I suspect he is, would place 'our' Andrés in Tlazazalca and name his parents.
I am especially interested in Andrés Magaña and Ana Ramires de Hermosillo, because the line I am researching is directly descended, not only from this couple, but also from Lázaro Martín del Campo and Catarina Ramires de Hermosillo, who is the sister of Ana.
Best wishes,
Lawrence Bouett
Further on this post: I have located both of the baptisms mentioned above, namely, that of Andrés Magaña on 20 Jun 1660 and also that of 'Roque Jasinto' on 30 Aug 1655. The first is on image 71 of the film (FHL 643759), and the second is on image 58 of the same film.
The difference, however, is that the second baptism is not of one hijo, Roque Jasinto, but rather of twins, Roque and Jasinto (por ser mellisos)! So the Roque Magaña who is the padrino in 1698 is, in fact, the brother of Andrés.
The film is not in strict chronological order; I am in the process of indexing the dates so I will not make the same mistake again (of claiming that the record is not on the film).
Saludos,
Lawrence Bouett
Orinda, CA
Since I somehow managed to click the 'Post comment' button twice, which resulted in duplicate messages being sent, I'm taking this opportunity to 'delete' the duplicate by adding that the line I'm working on is descended from not two, but three of the children of Andrés Magaña and Ana Ramires de Hermosillo; the third line of descent is from María Francisca, who married Sebastián Reynoso y Renteria, ca. 1693 in Jalos.
Best wishes,
Lawrence Bouett
Lawrence,
Nice discovery, I have noticed over the years all these hints, here and there tie everything up. We would still need to confirm this. It is nice to know that were are related through Andres Magana. Remember Gonzalez de Hermosillo and Ramirez de Hermosillo are almost one in the same. Some members took on different names for whatever the reason may be.
Best wishes,
Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino
Alfonso Reynoso-Rábago
Hi, Lawrence.
1) The term "Nuestra Señora de San Juan" refers to the present city of San Juan de los Lagos which for a long time (16th, 17th and part of 18th centuries, colonial times) belonged to the jurisdiction of the parish of Jalostotitlán (Jalos).
2) The Sauz, refers to "El Sauz de los Ramirez" (note that a person who you are investigating takes precisely the surname Ramirez). This site is currently located in San Miguel el Alto. In colonial times it belonged to the jurisdiction of the parish of Jalostotitlán (see map on http://mexico.pueblosamerica.com/i/sauz-de-los-ramirez/).
Best wishes,
Alfonso Reynoso-Rábago
Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, Mexico
El Sauz will have been an hacienda or ranch. Del Sauz is short for "de El
Sauz" There were many places called El Sauz or Los Sauces which means
willows. Over time the ranches and haciendas would be divided among the
children so it is hard to say which Sauz the record was referring to.
Someone else should be able to clarify.
Nuestra Señora de San Juan is a church in what is now called San Juan de
los Lagos whose name change was due to a large number of people from Santa
María de los Lagos, now named Lagos de Moreno, populating the city.
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bas%C3%ADlica_de_Nuestra_Se%C3%B1ora_de_Sa…
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Juan_de_los_Lagos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Juan_de_los_Lagos
http://www.inafed.gob.mx/work/templates/enciclo/jalisco/mpios/14073a.htm
The church in Jalos at the time was Nuestra Señora de la Asunción.
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalostotitl%C3%A1n
http://www.e-local.gob.mx/work/templates/enciclo/jalisco/mpios/14046a.h…
Regards
Armando
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 2:12 PM, wrote:
> Does anyone have any further information about the above-captioned couple?
> They had at least six documented children, including Augustina (ca. 1683),
> Rosa María (bau. 21 Feb 1696), Petrona (nac. 10 Oct 1698), Francisca
> Efigenia (bau. 19 Jul 1704), Joseph Manuel (bau. 23 Oct 1706), and María
> Beatrís (bau. 15 Dec 1708). They were both living as of 22 Jun 1711, when
> Augustina married Antonio Sermeño in Jalostotitlán. These birth and
> baptism dates are about at the date limit of the images of the online
> registers at FamilySearch.org.
>
> Also, I am trying to determine the time sequence of place names at that
> time. Rosa María and Petrona show "Nuestra Señora de San Juan" as their
> place of birth, while the others show "del Saus, Nuestra Señora de la
> Asunción". Both are in Jalos, and I think it it likely that they are the
> same place; but the historian in me would like to know for sure, and I
> haven't yet been able to find anything definitive.
>
> Best wishes,
> Lawrence Bouett
> Lafayette, California
I don't know if this will help you any as I was working on one of the Martin del Campos Lines and the father of the brides is "joseph Ramires de Hermosillo" Here the two brothers married the two sisters.
familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18447-9381-14?cc=1874591&wc=12506204
Nuestra Señora de la Asuncion, Matrimonios 1748-1768, image 155.
Regards
Lance Gonzalez
El apellido Sanchez Reza se origina de la union de María de la Asuncion Sanchez-Castellanos Ramirez que nacio en 1744 en el poblado llamado San Tadeo hija de Thomas Sanchez-Castellanos de Escobedo y
Hi I'm looking for infomation such as Death and marriage documents for Rosa Rodriguez born on 30 August 1889 and Baptistized on the 30 September 1889 in Sagario Parish.
Monica Torres-Rice
Monica
Unfortunately, you have provided very little to work with.
For a woman born in 1889, a possible marriage date would be after 1904 (when she would have been 15), although after 1909 may be more likely.
Did the family stay in Zacatecas? If so, a search through the parish and civil records may be in order, but without a date or a parish, this may be a long search. These records have not been extracted so there is no easy way to do it.
If they stayed in Zacatecas, did they stay long enough to be included in the 1930 Mexico National Census?
Death dates are much more difficult to track down without a lead.
Did she come to the US? If so, is there a border crossing record? Is she in the US Census?
In doing a search in Family Search no brothers or sisters show up. Did she have any? If she did, they may be in the unextracted records. Again, no easy way to do this search.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
Hola Members ,here is one of many doors I can't open . I have a Jose Antonio Munoz born on Sept.
I have been trying to find some info on Miguel Vaez & Rosa Mercado but have not progressed.Here is the following info I have
Michaela Vaez married to Melchor Perez Ynfante
Acabo de encontrar una pagina de youtube que contiene varios videos con entrevistas con personas de familysearch, y dan mucha informacion importante sobre la pagina web y la indexacion.
Acabo de encontrar una pagina de youtube que contiene varios videos con entrevistas con personas de familysearch, y dan mucha informacion importante sobre la pagina web y la indexacion.
Why can I not view early marriages of Cuquio Jalisco it's starts of with 1711?And I need the year 1682 to view the marriage record of my ancestor Juan Perez Ynfante & Magdalena Lopez
Abram,
When you do a search for a baptism, marriage, or death record and there is a hit the result will provide a film number. The desired document will ALWAYS be found in the film that corresponds to the number provided. You can then do a search of the film at https://familysearch.org/catalog-search in order to see what they have the book(s) labeled as.
In this case your film is 615009. In the Catalog Search the film 615009 is labeled as Bautismos 1666-1705,1711-1726.
This means the record you are looking for is within the digitized film that Victoriano sent you a link to. There can be multiple books within the film and the records can jump around between baptisms, confirmations, and marriages. So there is a chance you will have to search through a lot of pages to find the desired record.
There are many localities that are like that for years previous to 1700. Whenever you aren't sure if you are looking at the right film always cross reference the film number provided with the catalog search. As I stated before, the film number provided in a baptism, marriage, or death record search will ALWAYS be correct.
Armando
The film does start in the 1660's
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18455-54434-50?cc=1874591&wc…
Victoriano Navarro
Hi Victoriano,
You probably read my post wrong I mentioned marriages not baptism?
Abram
Hey Abram,
The earliest marriages and baptisms are usually in the same book/film as is the case with Cucuio. It does take a bit to find the marriages somewhere within the the first part of the film before pg 252.
Richard Ibarra
Richard Armando and Vicotriano,
Thanks a lot and i was able to locate the marriage document I was looking for thanks a lot.Victoriano sorry for being so ignorant and not knowing that.Thanks for that info Armando I will not consider on doing that.
Armando,
I ment to say i will now consider on doing that sorry about that.Regarding this marriage of Alonso Perez Infante and Thomasa De Supelveda , it mentions that the parents of Alonso Perez Infante are Juan Del Castillo and Maria Morales shouldn't his dad have the same surname as his son?That has been confusing me for a while and has happen to various times now?And it also states that his dad (Juan Del Castillo)is a vecino of Ayo El Chico?I have looked for his dad on family search and found nothing on him?Any suggestions?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18684-24792-67?cc=1874591&wc…
Abram,
The change in surnames has caused trouble for many genealogists. They changed their surname to honor an ancestor. It was more common prior to the 19th century and the further back your study goes the more you will see this happen. They didn't follow a naming convention and just used surnames as they pleased.
Armando
Hi Abram,
I really didn't notice whether the records were marriages or baptisms. I just went to the link you provided, checked the film number provided there, found the film number in the Familysearch Catalog, and based on that information I located it on the Cucuio records. As Richard says, sometimes they had different kinds of records in the same books.
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro
Hola a todos
Estoy buscando mis ramas paternas que en el siglo XVIII se desenvolvían en la región de Arándas, Ayo el Chico, Santa Ana Pacueco, Gto.y en el s. XIX por el norte de Michoacán.
You mentioned you will be researching PARES. It's a very interesting site, but I've never found how to confirm that the info you find for the name entered in the search, is the person you need; es
¿Quién quiere dar una clase sobre cómo utilizar PARES?
Hagalo facil y dar muchos detalles.
Who would like to teach a class on how to use PARES?
Make it simple and give a lot of details.
Thanks,
Joseph
Joseph Puentes
Joseph, I was already in the process of making a document with screenshots.
I will send it to you so it can be posted to NR. Anyone that cares to edit
it can do so.
Saludos.
Armando
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 9:13 PM, Joseph Puentes wrote:
>
>
> ¿Quién quiere dar una clase sobre cómo utilizar PARES?
>
> Hagalo facil y dar muchos detalles.
>
>
>
> Who would like to teach a class on how to use PARES?
>
> Make it simple and give a lot of details.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Joseph
>
>
>
>
>
> Joseph Puentes
>
> Clean@h2opodcast.com
>
> http://h2opodcast.com
>
>
>
>
>
You guys are awesome! Gracias Armando & Joseph.
Claudia
GuadalajaraDispensas.com
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Armando wrote:
> Joseph, I was already in the process of making a document with screenshots.
> I will send it to you so it can be posted to NR. Anyone that cares to edit
> it can do so.
>
> Saludos.
> Armando
>
> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 9:13 PM, Joseph Puentes wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > ¿Quién quiere dar una clase sobre cómo utilizar PARES?
> >
> > Hagalo facil y dar muchos detalles.
> >
> >
> >
> > Who would like to teach a class on how to use PARES?
> >
> > Make it simple and give a lot of details.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> >
> > Joseph
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Joseph Puentes
> >
> > Clean@h2opodcast.com
> >
> > http://h2opodcast.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
Thanks for the tip on PARES. While I don't get to do genealogy stuff as much as I like, I thought I was aware of all the online resources out there. Thanks.
I already found something interesting. For anyone who's a descendant of Diego de Montemayor, they have the passenger list for the ship he came on in 1548 to Mexico.
Here's the entry: "Diego de Montemayor, vecino de Málaga, hijo de Juan de Montemayor y Mayor Hernández, con su esposa Inés Rodríguez."
Here's the link to the original document: http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas/servlets/Control_servlet?accion=3&tx…
That said, I couldn't find the entry, so maybe it's not scanned or I'm just not seeing it.
Thanks,
Chris Pineda
Hello Chris,
The link will only work for someone that has done a recent search or has an
account. Otherwise they have to go to Búsqueda Sencilla at
http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas/servlets/Control_servlet?accion=0 and in
the BUSCAR field type (or copy and paste) Diego de Montemayor and in the
FECHA field type in 1548 for the desde and hasta then click on the BUSCAR
button at the bottom then in the list of results click the Casa de la
Contratación link then in the next list of results click on the RELACION DE
PASAJEROS which will take them to the desired record.
Four of the images are missing which is why you aren't seeing. They were
probably scanned but there is probably a problem with the system or how
they named the links to the images or the images themselves. I doubt they
would only scan some and not the others.
Saludos,
Armando
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 6:09 PM, Chris Pineda wrote:
> Thanks for the tip on PARES. While I don't get to do genealogy stuff as
> much as I like, I thought I was aware of all the online resources out
> there. Thanks.
>
> I already found something interesting. For anyone who's a descendant of
> Diego de Montemayor, they have the passenger list for the ship he came on
> in 1548 to Mexico.
>
> Here's the entry: "Diego de Montemayor, vecino de Málaga, hijo de Juan de
> Montemayor y Mayor Hernández, con su esposa Inés Rodríguez."
>
> Here's the link to the original document:
> http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas/servlets/Control_servlet?accion=3&tx…
>
> That said, I couldn't find the entry, so maybe it's not scanned or I'm
> just not seeing it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris Pineda
Hi Chris,
As far as I know, nobody has really proven that this document (dated December 17 1548 according to modern reprints of the Catálogo de Pasajeros a Indias) is referring to Diego de Montemayor, founder of Monterrey, although plenty of people believe it.
I don't think anybody has proven either that Diego de Montemayor founder of Monterrey was married to an Inez Rodrígez (the prove they use is this information you found).
On Familysearch there is information on a Diego de Montemayor married to Inez Rodríguez, who had several children in Lima, Perú, around 1556-1573. Those are names and surnames not so uncommon, so there might have been several homonyms living around the same time.
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro
Hello Everyone
Does anyone know what the lines and dashes mean in the 1759 Padron of Tepatitlan?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18567-13246-17?cc=1874591&wc…
I believe the hash tags make crosses. 1 cross meaning they took confession and 2 crosses that they also took communion. I'm basing this on what I learned from the Padron de Jerez. Deedra Corona
Thank you! That makes a lot of sense now. Any idea what the c's could mean? Thank you for your help I really appreciate it!
Richard Ibarra
Here is a link to a discussion on the topic of abbreviations in padrones:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/17965
Victoriano Navarro
Hi everyone!
My research for the past two years has been inspiring for me but I have holes in my research.
My great grandmother was Adelaida E. Nandino, born in Calveras, CA in 1852.
Cut and paste what I put, that is what I did. These links are too long to type in, IMO.
I just tried cutting and pasting the link from my post and it worked perfectly!
Rob
Suzanne Mead
Rob,
I just contacted them and they could not get in there themselves! She suggested you copy and paste what you found on Juan and Ysabele and e-mail it to me. Is that possible for you to do?
smead12
E mail me at this address and I will send you the links. They work for me, I even sent myself the links by e mail and they work. But for some reason, they cannot be accessed from this site.
Here is my e mail: rob.martinez@state.nm.us
Here you go!
Cocula, Jalisco, Mexico
San Miguel Church
Matrimonios 1825 – 1827
22 Sep 1827
Juan Antonio Nandino, native of Cocula, single, 18 years old, legitimate son of Jose Maria Nandino and Maria Vizenta Maldonado
With
Maria Ysabel Sevilla, native of Cocula, young girl and single, 16 years old, legitimate daughter of Jose Blas Sevilla and Maria Nicolasa Ybarra
This is a four page marriage investigation with witnesses
Link: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18432-20971-98?cc=1874591&wc…
Etzatlan, Jalisco, Mexico
Purisima Concepcion, Matrimonios 1781 - 1812
12 July 1800
Don Jose Maria Nandino, son of unknown parents and Maria Luisa Vizenta Maldonado, espanola, legitimate daughter of Francisco Manuel Maldonado and Maria Antonia Ruis[?]
Witnesses: Antonio Chino, Mateo Ruis and Jose Benito Damian
NOTE: Document is difficult to read, and is stained.
Link: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18569-37109-57?cc=1874591&wc…
Cocula, Jalisco, Mexico
San Miguel, Bautismos 1776 – 1787
3 Sep 1780
Luysa Bisenta, española, hija legitima de Manuel Maldonado y de Maria Antonia Ruyz
Padrinos: Antonio Maria de Estrada, Maria Manuela Bejarana
Link: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18687-83502-48?cc=1874591&wc…
Suzanne Mead
Hi Rob, I typed in exactly the link you sent me to see the information on Juan Antonio Nandino and family search had a pop up that said broken link or page does not exist. I typed it in exactly. Could you please verify if your link was correct that you sent me and if not, please resend me the new one so I can access it please?
This is extremely important to me or send me another link to connect me there.
Thank You,
smead12
I was also interested in finding out if poet Elias Nandino was part of my Nandino family that I have posted before. Elias Nandino was born in Cocula in 1900 and died in Cocula, Jalisco in 1993. He was a famous poet and was a medical doctor at a prison for 19 years. I also wanted to know if Sixto Nandino was related to my branch in Cocula. If anyone could help me I would be thrilled.
I do not have access to Cocula, Jalisco's census records there. This would help me so much in order to learn about the Nandino's and Renteria's in the 1811- 1890 time field. It could show me where and how they lived. If they lived on a farm, what their occupation was and seeing their parents and siblings names. Could someone help me to find out this information if they have access to Cocula's census records and see if their names and dates are there on them for this area as well as in San Miguel, Cocula, Jalisco, Mexico?? Hope someone out there can help me, I am a newcomer for this site. Thank you so very much for reading my post!
Here is the marriage record at San Miguel Church in Cocula, Jalisco, Mexico for Alonso Rodriguez Naranjo and Melchora Gerrero:
1 Aug 1683
Alonsso Rodriguez Naranjo, hijo de Juan Rodriguez Naranjo y de Melchora de los Reyes, difuntos
y
dona Melchora de Cardenas, hija de Juan Guerrero y de dona Maria de Cardenas, vecinos deste pueblo de Cocula
In the margin it says they are espanoles.
Here is a link: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18433-24926-12?cc=1874591&wc…
Pedro de Sevilla and Catarina Flores de Archiga were espanoles in Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico, where they were married:
Sagrario Metropolitano
27 April 1678
Pedro de Sevilla y a dona Catarina Flores de Archiga, espanoles
Velaronse en 29 de Junio de 1679
Here is a link: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18380-33129-2?cc=1874591&wc=…
I then found a marriage record at San Miguel Church in Cocula, Jalisco, Mexico for Nicolas de Sevilla and Simona Rodriguez Naranjo, parents of Joseph Antonio de Sevilla:
15 Sep 1728
Nicolas de Sevilla, hijo legitimo de Pedro de Sevilla y de dona Catharina Flores de Arechiga
con
Simona Rodriguez Naranjo, hija legitima de Alonso Rodriguez Naranjo y de dona Melchora Guerrero, espanoles de Cocula
Padrinos y testigos: Ygnacio Antonio de Santa Cruz y Agustina de Santa Cruz Nicolas de Figueroa y Francisco de la Cruz
Here is a link: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18433-26367-13?cc=1874591&wc…
I found a marriage investigation at Cocula, Jalisco, Mexico at the church of San Miguel dated 25 January 1771:
Joseph Antonio Sevilla, espanol, soltero, hijo de originario y vecino deste pueblo, hijo legitimo de don Nicolas de Sevilla, difunto, y de dona Simona Naranjo.
He petitions to marry
Maria Ysabel de Andrade, soltera, originaria deste pueblo, hija legitima de don Joseph Manuel de Andrade y de dona Juana Francisca de Santa Cruz.
Here is a link, I hope it works:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18430-42749-2?cc=1874591&wc=…
Suzanne Mead
Thank you Rob for all your help! I wish your link was highlighted so i could just click on to that link.
I will check them all out. Ysabele Sevilla or Seville was Adelaida E. Nandino's mother. Adelaida's father was Juan Antonio Nandino. Do you have access to them? Adelaida was the only one born in Calaveras, CA. Adelaida's sisters were Francisca and Servia or spelled Cirina and Jose and Esperidion Nandino. These siblings of Adelaida were my great grand aunts and uncles. They were all from Cocula, Jalisco. Can you try to find them too please since they are closer to me in my family tree?
Adelaida's sister Francisca was born in 1830. Espiridion was born on Jan. 1845. Jose was born in 1932. Jesus Nandino was the other sister, she married what I thought was the last name was Renteria but the archivist in Calaveras had also spelled it as Rentivia and even Rentivca. Jesus's children were Antone, Pedro, Frederico and Manuella Rentivca. So perhaps you may find them there on a census in Mexico. Thank you for all your help and I will check it out. Please stay in touch and I greatly appreciate your wonderful efforts and time you gave to me! smead12
You are welcome! If I run into other members of your family, I will post the info here.
Rob
BUENAS TARDES
No se mandó el anuncio de tu mensaje al grupo por correo. ¿puedes volver a escribirlo y asi algun miembro lo podrá leer y ayudar con la paleografia?
Armando
Victor M Gomez
GRACIAS, YA LO REENVIE
Hola Victor Manuel,
Creo que dice:
Juan Becerra, espanol de la soledad hijo legitimo de Josefa [Quintero] y [Alfonso] Becerra difunto con Isabel Alvarez... Padrinos Pedro Diaz y Sussana Arabula Testigos Antonio Hilario Jose Bravo y Phelipe Aguirre todos del dicho pueblo.
No se mas de los padres de Juan los he tratado de buscar pero no encontre nada pero
hasi se me apparecieron los nombres, ojala puede ser de ayuda.
Richard Ibarra
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