Nuestros Ranchos Site

Do any of your Miramontes happen to come from a rancho called Rio de
Cuculiten in the Tlaltenango area?

I've updated my folder adding my information on my Miramontes from
Tlaltenango. I haven't done very much research on this line but Arturo Ramos
has written a book on the various families from this area. I've also update
my Leanos and Muro family trees in my folder:

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/makas_nc

Ysidro and my Francisco probably new each other or were even cousins, maybe
we are too.

Joseph

=========================

Joseph Puentes
Clean@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-
> bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of sr92809@sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 12:09 AM
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Miramontes from Tlaltenango
>
> Hello Everyone,
> I know this family line has been talked about before on here.
> I was recently able to trace my great-grandmother's family all the way
back to a Ysidro
> Miramontes who married Bernarda de Avila on
> Jan.21,1709 in Tlaltenango, Zac. The record states his parents are Lorenzo
de Miramontes
> and Maria de Santiago.
> Using the Gedcom database on here I found a Lorenzo Miramontes but he's
married to an
> Ana Diaz de Santiago. The name is somewhat similar and I wonder if they
are the same
> couple. Ysidro Miramontes is not listed in the Tlaltenango Families
database but I believe
> he could be their son. Any helpful information would be appreciated.
>
> Gustavo Carrillo
>
>

Emilie,

Family Finder is $289. It sounds like that isn't what you wanted to hear.

You are confusing three different things mutations, nucleobases, and
haplogroups. The nucleobase T has nothing to do with the haplogroup T. A
mutation can be caused by placement of a nucleobase but the mutation won't
just be called T.

If an Olague never wants to test then you will never be able to tell what
their subgroup is. They are almost definitely R1b haplogroup since northern
Spain mostly belongs to that group.

My great uncles were bullfighters and my grandfather was a co-founder of
organized charrería in his hometown. My uncle invented the 6x20 rectangle
used in all charreadas for the cala de caballo. One uncle has been national
champion multiple times and another 2nd place in charro completo in
nationals.

Saludos,
Armando

On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 6:23 PM, Emilie Garcia wrote:

>
>
> Armando,
>
>
>
> Thanks again for explaining about the nucleobases not being the same as
> the haplogroups.
>
>
>
> Now I have a question about Family Finder. Is that part of FamilyTreeDNA
> on their website? Does it cost extra? I only signed up for the $99.00 kit
> when it went on sale for half price a few months ago. I am on a fixed
> income. In this economy $100 dollars is a lot of money for something we
> don't really "need", which is why it is difficult to get people to do it.
>
>
>
> I did a Google search for a haplogroup T and I found an explanation on
> Wilipedia. Apparently they are from India? and were the first people to
> develop agriculture. Maybe that is why I love to pull weeds and work in my
> garden. The T I think is part of the list of "mutations" they sent me,
> along with A and G and C, but now I think I am back to confusing the
> nucleobases and haplogroups.
>
>
>
> My father's surname is Olague, and in the 1980s I went to the Navarre area
> in Spain where a Spanish friend from Pamplona told me her folks had a
> "chalet" near a town called Olague. They thought my husband was the Olague
> since he is fair, and they didn't realize I was the Olague. They all had
> bright blue eyes, and were mostly dairy farmers. We saw lots of spotted
> cows walking back to the barns by themselves past modern houses with TV
> antennas and nice small cars in the driveways. They were busy preparing
> for some kind of festival in front of the only public building we saw, kind
> of like a bar/inn, white plaster with pretty flowers in planters along the
> balcony, the men dressed in white with red bandanas and berets on their
> heads. They were nice, but we didn't get any information; they were just
> pleased we liked their little town, etc.
>
>
>
> The Olagues came to the New World in the early 1500s and settled in
> Panuco, Zacatecas. There were some Olague brothers who were in the Onate
> party that went to Santa Fe in 1580 or so, but they soon abandoned the
> colony and went back to "civilization" in Zacatecas. Someone in Mexico
> told me that all Olagues in Mexico are the descendants of these people.
> However, I have been unable to bridge the gap between the Olagues in the
> Onate party and the most distant of my father's ancestors of that surname
> in Zacatecas.
>
>
>
> My father told me he was a mestizo, but he also said that his
> great-grandfather was called "el frances" because he was fair with blue
> eyes. My father was born almost blond and his eyes were the color of
> coffee with lots of cream in it; his grandmother gave my mother a lock of
> his baby hair; it was very light tan, tied with a little ribbon. I don't
> know what happened to that lock of hair, but it would be useless for DNA
> testing since it had to have been cut and not pulled. However, in my
> research of his lines, I found no French at all, only mostly espanoles,
> very few yndio and one line, the Surianos, had many individuals labeled
> "mulato". He did say that his surname was "un nombre basco". I heard him
> tell a priest that.
>
>
>
> You know, I do have my father's watch, his wallet, his eyeglasses. I
> wonder if anyone could pull DNA from that, but I think FamilyTreeDNA can
> only use the oral swabs for genealogical testing.
>
>
>
> With the help of several members of Nuestros Ranchos, I was able to trace
> my Olagues back to a Pedro Olague who was a captain or something in some
> town in Zacatecas in the late 1600s, but not in Jerez where my father was
> born in 1903. Pedro's wife was a Maria Haro I think. Mostly my father's
> people lived near Jerez in a place called Tepetongo and Salitrillo. Also,
> in researching my father's Llanos y Valdez I found they linked to a line of
> Olague Etulain. Maybe Pedro was related to them.
>
>
>
> I have tried to find male Olagues on the lists of those who have tested
> with various DNA labs and can find no one with that name. I have been told
> that there are some Olagues in Jerez who breed bulls for the bullfights,
> but I would have to go and knock on their doors, and maybe even then I
> couldn't get any information since my father and his father and uncles left
> Mexico in 1913 when my father was only 10 years old. Further, the people
> from Jerez don't seem interested in genealogy, don't understand why we
> would want to search ancient records and cemeteries and have our DNA
> tested. They are more interested in raising cattle and in charriadas or
> whatever, and of course they only speak Spanish, which I have difficulty
> with. They don't emigrate over here; they seem to do OK where they are.
>
>
>
> Thanks again for the information,
>
>
>
> Emilie
>
> Port Orchard, WA
>
>
>
>
>
>

Can you post the link to that record.

________________________________
From: "henricvs@gmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 6:23 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] I need help understanding old Spanish handwriting

I have an image of a marriage record, but I am having trouble understanding the handwriting.  Is there someone here who can translate the document for me.  I can read and understand Spanish, but the handwriting of this time is giving me a headache.  I will email the file to anyone who is interested in helping.  Thanks in advance.

Send it me. I will help.
-----Original Message-----
Date: Friday, July 06, 2012 6:20:07 am
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
From: henricvs@gmail.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] I need help understanding old Spanish handwriting

I have an image of a marriage record, but I am having trouble understanding the handwriting. Is there someone here who can translate the document for me. I can read and understand Spanish, but the handwriting of this time is giving me a headache. I will email the file to anyone who is interested in helping. Thanks in advance.

Send it me. I will help.
-----Original Message-----
Date: Friday, July 06, 2012 6:20:07 am
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
From: henricvs@gmail.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] I need help understanding old Spanish handwriting

I have an image of a marriage record, but I am having trouble understanding the handwriting. Is there someone here who can translate the document for me. I can read and understand Spanish, but the handwriting of this time is giving me a headache. I will email the file to anyone who is interested in helping. Thanks in advance.

debes de buscar hasta 3 meses antes del matrimonio y ni modo, imagen por
imagen, a menos que sea de Jalisco donde gracias a una compañera de
nuestros ranchos Claudia Casillas que ha hecho la gran obra de indexarlas
en esta página.

http://www.guadalajaradispensas.com

2012/7/5

> Les agradeceria su orientacion:
>
> Para localizar informacion matrimonial de una pareja ¿cuanto tiempo atras
> se debe buscar con respecto a la fecha de Matrimonio?
> ¿Solo se puede encontarar abriendo imagen por imagen? Saludos a todos
> Luis A. Valdes

My family is mainly from Zacatecas and I grew up saying mande, not que or como because it was considered kinda low class. Suena feo, you know?

As a teacher, I deal with lots of Mexican parents, mostly from Michoacan, and if I remember correctly, they say mande as well.

Laura Gonzalez

As a mexican living in México I can tell you that I always use ¿QUE? and my
parents never correct me, but I had a friend in the school that always told
me, "no se dice que?, se dice "mande".

But the one we NEVER USE, I had never heard it is ¿como? as and answer
when someone call you

Patricia Haro

On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Gomezlucero, Irma wrote:

>
> ANNOUNCE DIGEST
> ****************************************
> I was raised to say Mande Usted whenever my parents or elders called me.
> It was a sign of respect, but also good breeding (bien criado) per my
> mother. She would get disgusted whenever she would hear my cousins (who
> were also raised in the US) say "Que?" To respond, "Que" was considered
> rude and low class unless you were speaking to another kid.
> After taking countless Spanish classes in the US, I learned to say,
> "como?" but always reserved the Mande Usted for my elders. "Diga" somehow
> sounded a bit rude and condescending to me. It's almost like you're
> telling folks to spit it out and say what you want. My parents would never
> say this even to me as their child.
> I guess it varies from culture to culture. My parents are/were from Los
> Altos de Jalisco. I find that we're a bit more stuffy than other folks
> from the rest of Mexico and Latin America. I learned of other examples as
> I began to learn Spanish as a second language.
> In present day Mexico, I don't think it has anything to do with nobility
> or social status. I still hear my cousins in Mexico use this term even
> with me when we're the same age.
>
> My cinco centavos.
> Irma GomezGtz---- N. California
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 15:39:45 -0700
> From: Emilie Garcia
> To:
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Roy Rodriguez, Jr.
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Roy,
>
> You mentioned differences in usage of words in Spain vs Mexico in
> addressing people.
>
> There is one other thing that I was aware of growing up with a Native
> American mother from New Mexico and a Basque-mestizo-mulato father from
> Zacatecas. He would scold us if we said, "Que?". He insisted we say
> "mande usted", but my mother refused to do that. She would say "nadie me
> manda". She would say "como?" or "que?". I noticed in Spain they don't
> use that term, "mande", and since the New Mexico "manitos" used an old
> Spanish dialect and were isolated for so long from the centers in Mexico,
> if that is the reason.
>
> In our Spanish class in school, we learned to say "Como?" or "perdon?",
> not "Mande", and I noticed in Spain they used the term "Como?" or "diga?".
>
> I also had a maid that insisted on calling me Dona Emilia when I told her
> to call me Emilia. She could have called me "senora". I felt
> uncomfortable with the "dona", but then I wondered if she was being
> sarcastic.
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> > Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 14:45:38 -0500
> > From: fandemma@gmail.com
> > To: announce@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Roy Rodriguez, Jr.
> >
> > Hello Raquel,
> >
> > The use for older people regardless of economic or social status seems to
> > have begun in the 20th century in Mexico. It is actually used sparingly
> in
> > Spain, so yes in the 20th century it became more egalitarian in Mexico
> > than in Spain. Prior to the 20th century it used more often but only for
> > certain classes of people in Spain. The use for non-nobles is ambiguous
> in
> > Mexico but it's use in Nueva Galicia was used mainly for people of high
> > regard.
> >
> > Saludos,
> > Armando
> >
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2012 00:55:23 +0000
> From: Lester Alvarado
> To:
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mande usted Vs como
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Hi Emile and Roy,
>
> In my house growing up in East L. A. mom would always make us respond to
> her with ?Mande usted ?she would get furious with us if we didnt . She
> would say it was a form of respect . I have several good friends from
> Colombia and from other South American countries that tell me that they
> never use that phrase and the reason Mexicans use it, is because of the
> domination of the spanish people .
> I dont know if thats true or not but thats what they tell me . Anyone else
> have any ideas ?
>
> Welester G. Alvarado Carrillo
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Roy,
> >
> > You mentioned differences in usage of words in Spain vs Mexico in
> addressing people.
> >
> > There is one other thing that I was aware of growing up with a Native
> American mother from New Mexico and a Basque-mestizo-mulato father from
> Zacatecas. He would scold us if we said, "Que?". He insisted we say "mande
> usted", but my mother refused to do that. She would say "nadie me manda".
> She would say "como?" or "que?". I noticed in Spain they don't use that
> term, "mande", and since the New Mexico "manitos" used an old Spanish
> dialect and were isolated for so long from the centers in Mexico, if that
> is the reason.
> >
> > In our Spanish class in school, we learned to say "Como?" or "perdon?",
> not "Mande", and I noticed in Spain they used the term "Como?" or "diga?".
> >
> > I also had a maid that insisted on calling me Dona Emilia when I told
> her to call me Emilia. She could have called me "senora". I felt
> uncomfortable with the "dona", but then I wondered if she was being
> sarcastic.
> >
> > Emilie
> > Port Orchard, WA
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > > Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 14:45:38 -0500
> > > From: fandemma@gmail.com
> > > To: announce@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Roy Rodriguez, Jr.
> > >
> > > Hello Raquel,
> > >
> > > The use for older people regardless of economic or social status seems
> to
> > > have begun in the 20th century in Mexico. It is actually used
> sparingly in
> > > Spain, so yes in the 20th century it became more egalitarian in Mexico
> > > than in Spain. Prior to the 20th century it used more often but only
> for
> > > certain classes of people in Spain. The use for non-nobles is
> ambiguous in
> > > Mexico but it's use in Nueva Galicia was used mainly for people of high
> > > regard.
> > >
> > > Saludos,
> > > Armando
> > >
> > >
>
>

Victor,

Your surname of Aguirre, is also found in my husband's maternal ancestry,on both the paternal and maternal ancestry of his mother's lines. They were mainly from Nochistlan, Zacatecas...

The surnames of Torres and Contreras also appear in these lines...The surname of Colores/z does not appear in my data base.

The surname Torres - Angela Torres (6th ggmother; Francisca Balbinia Mercado Torres; Ygnacia Mercado Torres; Angela Augstina Mercado Torres; Christobal Mercado Torres; Candida Susana Rodrigues Torres 94th ggmother); Leonisio de Torres... and many more...

Surname Aguirre - (just to name a few) -

Maria Aniseta Losano Aguirre bapt 1829 Nochistlan, Zacatecas
Maria Senovia Aguirre
Jose Timoteo Aguirre
Joseph Leonicio Contreras Aguirre Feb 1761 Nochistlan
Nicolas Aguirre
Cecilio Aguirre
Agustin Aguirre
Maria Cacimira Aguirre
Juan Francisco Contreras Aguirre Feb 1747- Nochistlan
Maria Salome Contreras Aguirre

If you see any connections, just let me know. I am more than willing to share my research findings with you...

Pat Silva Corbera

----- Original Message -----
From: "V. Aguirre"
To: "Nuestros Ranchos"
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 9:36:49 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Linaje de los apellidos Colores, Torres, Contreras y Correa.

Hola a todos.-

Estoy buscando información del linaje de los apellidos Colores, Torres,
Contreras y Correa . Estoy interesado principalmente el linaje de mi
tatarabuelo Jorge Colores, a continuación describo los eventos de la vida
de mis ancestros:

1. Jorge Colores, posiblemente originario de Peñon Blanco Durango y
posiblemente nació entre los años 1860 a 1865 aproximadamente, se casó con
Liarada Contreras, es la única información que tengo de ella y él.

El hijo de Jorge Colores y Liarada Contreras fue: Mariano Colores nació en
1882 originario de Ojocaliente Zacatecas México y murió en el año de 1958
en Milwuakee, Wisconsin USA.

Mariano Colores (1882-1958), se casó a los 19 años de edad, el día 09 de
Noviembre de 1901, con María Jesús Torres teniendo 16 años de edad,
originaria de Ojocaliente, Zacatecas. Los padres de María de Jesús fueron
Luis Torres y Lorenza Correa. Los abuelos paternos fueron: Francisco
Torres y María Nieves y Los abuelos maternos fueron: Antonio Correa y María
Guadalupe.

Es importante mencionar que estos apellidos de Colores y Torres proviene
del Rancho San Ramón municipio de la Blanca Zacatecas. Mariano y Maria de
Jesús emigraron a USA de jovenes de aproximadamente a los 23 a 25 años de
edad.

Notas de la boda: se casaron en la Santa Iglesia Parroquial de Ojocaliente,
Jorge Colores padre de Mariano Colores ya estaba fallecido en la fecha de
celebración del matrimonio de su hijo.

Los hijos de Mariano Colores y María Jesús Torres fueron:

5. i. Peter Colorez

6. ii. Victoria Colores

7. iii. Isidro Colores, b. 15 Mayo 1915, Ojocaliente, Zacatecas,
México.

8. iv. Guadalupe Colores

9. v. Emanuel Colorez

10. vi. Ana Colores

11. vii. Antonio Colores

Cabe mencionar que la mayoria de los hijos de Mariano Colores
residieron en Milwuakee,
Wisconsin USA y alguno de ellos se cambiaron el apellido Colores a Colorez
(solo cambiaron la última letra del apellido).

a Agradezco de antemano la información que deseen sumar y compartirme de
los linajes antes mencionados.

At Atentamente.-

Victor C.

Como comenté en el anterior, el libro del padre Ibarrola contiene un capítulo sobre los Llanos Valdés en Michoacán, ahí menciona que a fines del s. XVIII llegó a Valladolid como prebendado de la catedral y procedente del Real de la Sierra de Pinos el presbitero Don Jacinto de Llanos Valdes acompañado de un sobrino nieto : Don Clemente de Jesus Erazo y Llanos Valdes que llegó a ser ministro del supremo tribunal de Michoacan; la hija de éste , Doña Gertrudis de Erazo y Llanos Valdés casó con el Lic. Francisco Contreras Madrid de la Rocha nacido en Guanajuato y ambos son los troncos de una meritoria familia de la capital michoacana que tengo el gusto de conocer.
Habiendo leído las investigaciones de Don Salvador Cabral y de Don Arturo Ramos, encuentro que Don Jacinto de Llanos Valdés debio ser hijo de Don Juan Jose Llanos y Valdes Ramos Arreola ya que el padre Ibarrola dice que era hijo de Juan de Llanos y Valdes y de Agustina Carlos de Godoy y Velasco, y nieto de Juan Jose de Llanos y Valdes y Maria Marcela Ramos; y de Ignacio carlos de Godoy y Velasco y María de Miranda.
Lo que no he encontrado es el nombre de la hermana de Don Jacinto que casó con algún señor de apellido Eraso y de ahí nace Don Rafael Erazo y Llanos Valdes.
Cabe hacer notar que el padre Ibarrola señala un hermano de Don Jacinto llamandole Dr. Don Ambrosio de Llanos y Valdes, del cual dice fue abogado de la real audiencia.
Agradecería si alguien tiene el dato de esa hermana de Don Jacinto y Don Ambrosio que me falta, asi como el de su marido
Carlos Peredo

Salvador:

Como dices estos Valdes del libro de Don Esteban Valdes Salazar son otros Valdes y no los Llanos y Valdes de los que descendiemos. Si hay alguna Llanos y Valdes que entra a la genealogia de Totatiche en una epoca muy temprana y queda tratada en el libro pero no como parte central de el, ya que el libro enfoca en los Valdes descendientes de tal Francisco Valdes que llega a Zacatecas de Espana a principios de los 1700s.

La Llanos y Valdes que aparece en la genealogia es la proxima:

http://www.ramosfamily.org/nextgen/getperson.php?personID=I585

Leonarda de Llanos y Valdes casada con Cayetano Gines de Urena

There is an Amat family in the Pinos-Asientos-Aguascalientes-Ojuelos area that was also very well known and I have documented them, since they were very related to my mother´s side of the family. They kept close ties to Camino, Martínez de Sotomayor, Ruíz de la Peña and Díaz de León families. I wonder if they could very well be related. I noticed on your page that García de León family was tied to them. What you need to do is look for their marriage record in the mexico city films and find out who they´re parents were and where they came from. Mexico City is a very fun place to research, they kept extremely good records from 1766-1812 sometimes the marriage record will mention grandparents and the relation of the godparents and witnesses. Especially, if they were peninsulares, they would give a quick background on the person. Good luck!

Saludos,
Daniel Méndez de Torres Camino
Río de Janeiro, Brasil

There is a de la Mora tree at
http://www.myheritage.es/site-59701631/de-la-mora You might see if someone
there has info.

Saludos.
Armando

On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 1:02 PM, wrote:

> This is for the person who posted the Organization info. For some reason
> I can not find your topic on here.
>
> I am looking for Santiago de la Mora who was married to Catalina Ximenes.
> Is this the same one you were talking about? I could use some help with
> this line.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Lisa

Hi Lisa,
I found two wives for Santiago de la Mora, Rosalia Berdin and Gertrudis Peres. I don't know how to navigate this site well but I will try to upload the tree for you to see. This is where citing sources help. I formed this tree through baptism and matrimonial information and since this is the part my relatives do not dispute, it's put on the back burner as far as sourcing. Please learn from my mistakes. It's interesting that my tias believed the family came from Spain just a few generations up from my grandparents and I just keep going farther and farther and finding baptism records (stating a local ranch and age of a few days old for birth)from Mexico. If you descend from the de la Moras from this area we are probably related somehow. I found 2 distant cousins on this site.
Sherri Mora

Adrián Márquez Padilla

Existe en family search un Juan de Santiago de la Mora de 1761, hijo de Fernando de la Mora y Juana Teresa Blancarte

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N8JK-85M

Si pones de la Mora en el apellido y jalisco en Recidence place, te apareceran muchos nombres, es cuestion de buscar con calma en la lista.

Espero esto te sirva de ayuda en tu busqueda

Saludos

Dr. Javier Sanchiz Ruiz does at the following page

http://gw5.geneanet.org/sanchiz?lang=es&p=diego+alonso&n=ramirez+de+her…

If that link doesn't work this shortened one should

http://goo.gl/Mf5lk

Saludos,
Armando

On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 3:23 PM, wrote:

> Diego Alonso del Pedroso (alternately, Diego Alonso Ramires del Pedroso)
> and Phelipa Hernandes de Rueda had (at least) three known children in Jalos
> (la Estancia de Coca): Juan Cayetano, Dionisio (bap. 1701), and Diego
> Alonso (bap. 1705). The latter two baptisms are documented.
>
> Does anyone have any documentary evidence of the lineage of this couple?
> I am stuck at the moment.
>
> Saludos,
> Lawrence Bouett

Hi Mggonzal,

Take a look at this film:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18735-4355-51?cc=1874591&wc=…
(Family Search films: Jalisco: Catholic Church Records: Chimaltitan:
Bautismos 1896-1903: image 692)

Last record on the bottom right states:
Margin: Maria Refugio nacio en este lugar el 1 del c/m 8.a.m.

Body: En la Yglecia Parroquial de Chimaltitan a seis de noviembre de mil
novecientos dos
El Prbro Luis Sanches ministro de esta parroquia con mi
lisencia bautiso solemnenente

continues on next page: poniendo santo Oleo y Sagrado Crisma a una nina
que nacio en este mismo lugar el primero del corriente a las ocho de la mana
a quien puso por nombre Ma Refugio hija legitima de Benito Guzman y Agapita
Quintero; abuelos paternos: Gerardo Guzman y Ma Refugio Lopez: abuelos
maternos: Casimiro Quintero y Ysabel Ayala: padrinos TEodoro Yanez e Ynes
Guzman; aquenes adivtio su abligacion y parentesco espuritual
Paraa constancia firmo conmigo ...

signatures: Filiberto Rodriguez Leal & Luis Sanchez

----
Hope this helps ... I made the assumption you read Spanish ... let me know
if you need a translation

-Angelina-

-----Original Message-----
From: mggonzal@clunet.edu
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 3:15 AM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Guzman of Bolaños

Hey everybody,

Recently I have been trying to do research on the side of my family that
isn't originally from the Totatiche/Temastian/Villa Guerrero area. They all
come from Bolaños, Jalisco. Specifically, I've been trying to trace down my
mother's Guzman branch.

Her grandfather was named Benito Guzman, born 1916 16 Jan in Bolaños,
Jalisco and died 2007 23 Jun he married Aurea Ramos born in 1920, daughter
of Porfirio Ramos 1895 and Mercedes Perez 1899.

Benito's father was also named Benito Guzman, and was born around 1880 and
his mother was named Agapita Quintero and was born around 1887.

Other than this, I know that Benito Guzman Sr's father was named Gerardo
Guzman. I had asked my grandfather and his brother if they knew the name of
the mother or any other relatives but they blanked. I did find this though
and my mom's uncle said the name sounded really familiar
(https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N811-QQR)

If it would be helpful I can provide the names and birth dates of Benito's
siblings.

Hi Roy,

welcome and thanks for sharing your story. This is a wonderful and diligent online community. I'm sure you will find a connection.... It's been really helpful for me as I've found a few distant relatives and have come across alot of new information. It's really exciting so get ready for a few surprises. Best of luck in your research. I'll keep my eyes open for you as well.

Regards,
Pauline

Hello Roy,
I did find the marriage date which you did not have in your family tree.
This is for Bernardo del Real and Maria Isabel Caballero; they were married
20 August 1883, in Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman, Zacatecas. I didn't put a
lot of attention so I don't know if you have all of Jesus de Real Siblings,
so just in case I found Maria Refugio del Real, 1884, and another Maria del
Refugio del Real in 1886--so I think maybe the first one died and chose the
same name for the next one. There is also Ygnacio del Real born 21
November 1888 and they were from Tlaltenango as well.

Hope it helped?
Esther Jordan Lopez

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 10:09 AM, wrote:

> It's only by fate that I find myself at Nuestros Ranchos.
> I took my wife to see "For Greater Glory" and came home to start
> researching the period. Among the numerous websites that came up on Google
> was NR and I was hooked.
>
> I've been researching my maternal family (Italian) for over ten years but
> never had much information on my paternal side.
>
> My paternal grandmother Dolores Villasenor was never married to the man
> that fathered my father. She left my father with his grandmother Martina
> Perez in 1924 and came to the U.S. to start a new life. She went back to
> Totatiche for my father in 1931. My father was raised as Rogaciano
> Villasenor and took the name Roy Villasenor Rodriguez when he was
> naturalized as a U.S. citizen during WWII. Rodriguez was the name of the
> man who eventually married my grandmother. My father spoke very little of
> the War and of his childhood in Mexico. One thing he did tell me was that
> we had both Spanish and Indian blood in our genes.
>
> Time has taken it's toll on my memory, but I think my grandmother once
> told me that my grandfather was killed in the revolution. It was this
> vague memory that got me curious about this man my father never knew.
>
> So, about three weeks ago, I went to FamilySearch and started looking. I
> immediately found my father as well as his older brother and sister - both
> listed as father unknown. Fortunately, my father's father was listed -
> Jesus del Real from Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman, Zacatecasas. At
> last..my family lineage is clear! Now to find out what really happened to
> Jesus. I can not find his death record to document his death during the
> Christeros.
>
> I've been going through Jalisco records day and night ever since and have
> gotten a great start to my tree, going back to my 4x Great Grandparents
> about 1770-1790.
>
> Please visit my folder:
>
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.**com/en/UncleRelic
>
> Regrettably, I do not speak Spanish as my father did not want to teach us.
> He studied very hard to learn English. He was very proud of his WWII
> service, loved his adopted country, and wanted to assimilate into American
> life.
>
> With great anticipation, I seek to communicate with any relatives.
>
> Regarding the movie: It was very enjoyable to watch, provided a somewhat
> accurate depiction of events, but more importantly it got me to do my own
> research.
>
> Best regards to all,
> Roy
>
>
>
>
>
>

Welcome to the group Martin.

As this is your first week, I would say that you're off to a good start because I just found your relatives a few days ago. The source is the marriage dispensas found at the Guadalajara Diocese: Guadalajara Matrimonios 1828, Film 168233, Image 1401.

The direct link to the first page is here:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18411-13591-78?cc=1874591 wc=12512899

The family tree corresponds to Juan Cobarrubias:
The first branch is: A1. Efigenia (m Jose Grano), A2. Rita Grano m Pedro Gonzalez, A3. Blas Gonzalez, A4. Juan
The second branch is: B1. Cristobal Cobarrubias, B2. Jose Covarrubias, B3. Rosalia m Julian Nunez, B4. Juana Maria

You can also find the marriage information for Pedro Gonzalez (born in Coahila--https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NLQH-TZ5 ?) & Rita Grano here: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JHL1-VN4

As you can see I had thought that Pedro G was born in Coahila not Tayahua, but that was based only on a brief search.

Good luck on your searches!
-Arturo Gonzalez

Denise Fastrup
Welcome to the Forum. I can assure you I have gotten lots of help and good tips here. My first tip for you is to do searches within Nuestros Ranchos. A lot of good info lies waiting to be discovered!

Regards
Denise Fastrup

Hola pariente,

En lo que te pueda ayudar me avisas.

Saludos,

Ricardo

I've put a link to this in the links area of the group.

Joseph

=========================

Joseph Puentes
Clean@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:general-
> bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of mayangrl@sonic.net
> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 4:27 AM
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Films on the history of Tepetongo
>
> http://www.tepetongozac.com.mx/suvoz7.htm

This information added so much personality to my ancestry research. I've looked at them a couple of times each already. So exciting to see the haciendas and history of Tepetongo shared with those of us who will probably never see it in person.

Thank you for sharing this link!

what a wonderful presentation and to see the old haciendas we have been naming in our research without having seen them makes it come to life..
thank you so much for posting this.
Linda in B.C.

________________________________
From: "mayangrl@sonic.net"
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 1:26 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Films on the history of Tepetongo

http://www.tepetongozac.com.mx/suvoz7.htm