Dr.mt

Help Deciphering Last Name (Abbreviations) and Barrio/Rancho locations

Published by Raramosa –
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Genealogy Research

Hi!

If any of you would have the time, I would appreciate if one could help me decipher the following in the record below:

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi Rafa,

It's been a long time since I looked at any records but here's what I see:

En veinte de junio de mil setecientos setenta y cuatro, se casaron y velaron in facie ecclesie, Jose Ramos, indio, de Barrio de San Mateo hijo legitimo de Sebastian Ramos, difunto, y de Nicolasa Juana y Maria Patricia, india, de Barrio de Adviento, hija legitima de Sebastian Pablo, difunto, y de Maria Bartola, a quienes hice sus informaciones y se publicaron en los dias veintinueve de mayo, tres y cinco del presente de que no resultó impedimento; fueron testigos Domingo Luis y Sebastian Damian y padrinos Pedro Manuel y Maria Micaela y lo firme como parroco:

Francisco de Dios Sobrado

Chris

Comentario

I believe that a barrio would be a smaller section of a town or city within its main residential section. A rancho pertaining to a town may be outside the main town or city. The rancho may be inside city limits, but usually it is outside the main residential areas of the town.

A cousin of mine owns a small rancho inside a barrio of a town so that is also possible. The town grew and built around his small rancho. On one side of the river is the main town. As you pass over the river you can see his rancho immediately to the left. just past his rancho, there was another rancho that bacame a barrio as they divided it up into lots and built up that whole area. So my cousins rancho is its own ranch, and surrounded by the residential areas of the town. His rancho is considered to be part of the newer barrio. It is relatively newer. When I was a kid it was already a small barrio that people made fun of and still called it a ranch. Sixty years later, it is a large residential section with many large and beautiful homes.

Comentario

Thank you.

Is there a specific forum where we can get help with reading records after we have found them?

I would hate to pester this forum with questions about helping me read the documents, but with older entries and poor handwriting it is very difficult for me to catch everything that is written other than names and even then some abbreviations are foreign to me.

Comentario

Hello Rafael,

I have found this forum to be a great place to get help in reading records. It is ok “to pester this forum with questions about helping me read the documents”. But if you are a serious researcher you need to work on learning how to decipher documents since relying all the time for someone else to do it for you will place a big limitation on how much research you can get done. Genealogy research takes a lot of time and much patience. I have gone months without finding any information, and then suddenly, I find a thread that leads to a treasure trove. Sometimes it takes a long time to unravel the thread. It is often easy to overlook a thread and that is why we researchers need to go back and review documents, looking for the smallest clues. These threads or clues may be missed if you don’t pick up strategies and practice in finding them. And you aren’t wasting another researcher’s time in asking for help. I have gained much knowledge and practice by helping others decipher records. In fact, the lessons learned by helping others has rewarded me immensely, both personally and in my research.

Even with my many decades of researching, I occasionally ask for help from nuestrosranchos members in deciphering records. I am extremely grateful for this help as it has contributed greatly towards my research. About a decade ago I put together a family tree that extended from Nueva España to Spain and the rest of Europe over a nine hundred years. The problem was that I had discovered a family tree that another famous European researcher had also discovered, except his family tree had a couple major differences as the other researcher named different maternal grandparents than my research had uncovered. For a few of years I couldn’t understand why our research and conclusions differed. But it was from help that I received by nuestrosranchos members Manny Hermosillo and Steven F. Hernandez Lopez, and others, in discovering how researchers sometimes mistakenly interpret information that I was able to understand why the other researcher had differences in the family tree that he published.

If it hadn’t been for Manny Hermosillo and Steven F. Hernandez I might never of published my book with the correct family tree since I did not want to publish while there was doubt as to which line was correct. With their help I was able to see clearly where, and how, the other researcher was led down the wrong path. I know Manny and Steven were not happy when with all of their immense experience in researching they made a mistake in concluding a family line, but it was precisely the fact that here were two genealogists, that are hard working, and have had much practice, and they still were led to a mistaken conclusion that I was able to see that the situation that brought about the erroneous conclusion was the same situation that the Famous European genealogists had used to come up with his mistaken family tree. Of course Both Manny and Steven were not overjoyed with this learning experience when it concerned their work, but it was this learning experience that showed how/why the European genealogists had come up with his different family tree. Both Manny Hermosillo and Steven Hernandez have helped me tremendously in other parts of my research, and not just in this family tree. I am tremendously grateful for their tremendous help and they both deserve to be acknowledged for this in my book. The book isn’t yet published as it is in the process of being revised and edited.

Good luck in your research,
Rick A. Ricci

Criollos

Published by Yolie –
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I found some ancestors identified as Criollos, Indio Criollos and Mestizos Criollos. Can someone please tell me if Criollo was a Spaniard born in the colones, why say Indio or Mestizo?

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Comentario

sometimes i think that term was used to refer to the elites who were born in americas in general. because i've seen people get refered to as criollos who were probably at least 1/4 amerindian.

Comentario

My "History of Mexico" book describes the tern to a child (born in Mexico) who parents were born in Spain. The child had less status than his parents. Hope this helps.

Comentario

It is not always true, as the book "History of Mexico" states, that criollos were the offspring of Spaniards. I agree with RJQ that time and place need to be considered when trying to determine how a writer uses the term criollo.

The Diccionario de la lengua española de la Real Academia Española has multiple meanings listed in its entry for criollo. The first four given relate directly to persons born and raised in the Americas. The first one is the most common, while the second one listed refers to persons of African descent who were born in the Americas as opposed to those taken from Africa and subsequently brought to the Americas. The third and fourth meanings could be applied more broadly.

See for yourselves.

Criollo, lla

Del port. crioulo, y este der. de criar 'criar'.
1. adj. Dicho de una persona: Hija o descendiente de europeos, nacida en los antiguos territorios españoles de América o en algunas colonias europeas de dicho continente. U. t. c. s.
2. adj. Dicho de una persona: De raza negra, nacida en los antiguos territorios españoles de América, por oposición a la que había sido llevada allí de África como esclava. U. t. c. s.
3. adj. Dicho de una persona: Nacida en un país hispanoamericano. U. para resaltar que esa persona posee las cualidades estimadas como características de su origen. U. t. c. s.
4. adj. Autóctono o propio de un país hispanoamericano, o del conjunto de ellos.
5. adj. Perteneciente o relativo al criollo (‖ lengua). Léxico criollo.
6. m. Lengua mixta, creada sobre la base de una lengua determinada y con la aportación de numerosos elementos de otra u otras, que surge con frecuencia en antiguos territorios coloniales y que, a diferencia de los pidgins, se transmite de padres a hijos, convirtiéndose así en lengua de una comunidad.
7. f. Cierta canción y danza popular cubana, en compás de seis por ocho.
a la criolla
1. loc. adv. A la manera criolla.
2. loc. adv. Arg., Bol., Col., Cuba, Ec., Par., Perú, R. Dom., Ur. y Ven. Llanamente, sin etiqueta.
bolas criollas
cambur criollo
Real Academia Española © Todos los derechos reservados

Comentario

Cast system descriptions and terms where rarely follow in real life, the more you read the records the more familiar you will get with them, reality is that there is no "true to all" situation, in some places and at some times writers would use terms that they thought to be more fit to it.

I've seen "Criollo" use mostly for person belonging to the town where is been recorded (baptism, marriage, etc) thus an interchangeable term with "Natural", to distinguish them from those who came to the town from other places usually called "Vecinos". A way to keep track of people moving, or in todays term, government surveillance.

Don Cristobal Martin and Doña Josefa Morquecho

Published by dcalonso –
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Genealogy Research

Does anyone know of this couple Don Cristobal Martin and Doña Josefa Morquecho. They would've been born around 1750.

Comentarios

Comentario

Here is a record that might help your research:

Name Cristobal Martin
gender Male
Wife Maria Antonia Morquecho
Daughter Maria Ynes Martin
Other information in the record of Joseph Gonsales and Maria Ynes Martin
from Mexico Marriages
Name Joseph Gonsales
Spouse's Name Maria Ynes Martin
Event Date 13 Feb 1764
Event Place Cienega De Mata,Ojuelos,Jalisco,Mexico
Father's Name Francisco Gonsales
Mother's Name Maria Morales
Spouse's Father's Name Cristobal Martin
Spouse's Mother's Name Maria Antonia Morquecho
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JCZK-KYB : 10 February 2018), Cristobal Martin in entry for Joseph Gonsales and Maria Ynes Martin, 13 Feb 1764; citing Cienega De Mata,Ojuelos,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 641,016.

Comentario

Mr. Ricci,

thank you for your help. I don't think either of these are the correct people. I thought about the Cristobal Martin and Maria Antonia Morquecho but they're identified as mulatos and the other don Cristobal Martin and doña Josefa Morquecho are always identified as españoles.

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Dear Danny,

I am not sure if this is the same Josepha Morquecho that you are looking for but she is the only Josepha Morquecho that I have found in that time period near that area.

Josepha Morquecho Gómez (bap. 11/Oct/1753, Zacatecas)is the daughter of Domingo Anastasio Gómez de Sotomayor and Barbara Morquecho Gómez Rodriguez.

Barbara is the daughter of Joseph Vicente (aka Vicente Joseph) Morquecho Qiujas (bap. 23/May/1688; Zacatecas) and Juana Gertrudis Gómez Rodriguez

Joseph Vicente is the son of Rodrigo Jacinto Morquecho and Phelipa Quijas Escalante y Herrera

Juana Gertrudis is the daughter of Cristóbal Gómez and María Rodriguez

Phelipa is the daughter of Pedro Fernandez De Quijas Escalante and Catalina De Herrera Saldaña.

Pedro is the son of Pedro Fernandez De Quijas and María Escalante y Borreto.

Catalina De Herrera Saldaña is the daughter of Antonio De Alcaras and Leonor De Herrera Saldaña.

Leonor De Herrera Saldaña is the daughter of Juan De Herrera and Catalina Saldaña.

I have much more information on the Herrera family that I am still sorting through.

I hope this helps,
Happy Easter,
Rick A. Ricci

Miramontes connection

Published by Evie –
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Genealogy Research

Lorenso De Miramontes and Maria De Santiago had a son, Ysidro De Miramontes who married Bernarda De Avila 21 Jan 1709.

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Comentario

I have never EVER received a response to a query so this is quite exciting. However, I have little to share. Bernarda Avila's parents are Juan De Avila and Francisca De Lerma who are also the parents of Juan Avila who married Josepha Ximenez. One roadblock after another - always. I cannot even locate Francisca's parents. Barnarda was married to Ysidro De Miramontes and his father was Lorenso who was married to Maria De Santiago. What is Brigida's relationship?

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: josecarlos1944@hotmail.com
> Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 14:04:19 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Miramontes connection
>
> I have both Lorenzo and Brigida Miramontes.
>
> e-mail me josecarlos1944@hotmail.com so that we can share info
>
>
>
> Jose Carlos de Leon

Comentario

Brigida Miramontes parents are Lorenzo miramontes and Maria Ana Diaz de Santiago. She was born abt 1675 to 1680. She married Francisco de Raigoza and had a son Jose Raigoza in 1703. Francisco died abt 1703 and Brigida remarried in 1704 to an "X Miramontes" (who I suspect the marriage record was in error) because there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that the "X" was really Xtopal Gonzales. It is not unusual for Church records to contain these kind of errors (I've seen hundreds of such gross errors.
However you are mistaken in Brigida's husband being Rafael Pinto De Avila.
In 1735 Rafael Pinto De Avila married Maria Gonsales Miramonttes daughter of a Brigida Miramontes and Xtopal/Cristobal Gonzales.

e-mail me cuz I have other children for Lorenzo,

Jose Carlos de Leon

Comentario

her marriage record with "X Miramontes" 02 Jul 1704 Tlaltenango De Sanchez Roma records her parents The record image :
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/30836442/person/26063914583/mediax/8c7ce…

the IGI
Name X. De Miramontes Birth Date Birthplace Age Spouse's Name Brigida De Miramontes Spouse's Birth Date Spouse's Birthplace Spouse's Age Event Date 02 Jul 1704 Event Place Tlaltenango De Sanchez Roman,Zacatecas,Mexico Father's Name Mother's Name Spouse's Father's Name Lorenzo De Miramontes Spouse's Mother's Name Ana De Santiago Race Marital Status Previous Wife's Name Spouse's Race Spouse's Marital Status Spouse's Previous Husband's Name Indexing Project (Batch) Number M60713-9 System Origin Mexico-ODM GS Film number 443968

The "X Miramontes" is probably a gross error; I'm 90% sure it is Xptobal Gonzales because of his daughter Maria's baptism in 02 Oct 1707 Tlaltenango De Sanchez Roma to which Evie refers to Maria Gonzales's marriage 23 Jan 1735 to Rafael Pinto De Avila. see both IGIs below

spouse: Xpttobal Gonsales
child: Maria Gonsales Miramonttes
Name Maria Gonsales Miramonttes
Gender Female
Christening Date 02 Oct 1707
Christening Place TLALTENANGO DE SANCHEZ ROMAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Birth Date
Birthplace
Death Date
Name Note
Race
Father's Name Xpttobal Gonsales
Father's Birthplace
Father's Age
Mother's Name Brigida De Miramonttes
Mother's Birthplace
Mother's Age
Paternal Grandfather's Name
Paternal Grandmother's Name
Maternal Grandfather's Name
Maternal Grandmother's Name
Indexing Project (Batch) Number C60089-3
System Origin Mexico-ODM
GS Film number 443801

Name Rafael Pinto De Abila
Birth Date
Birthplace
Age
Spouse's Name Maria Getrudis Gonsales
Spouse's Birth Date
Spouse's Birthplace
Spouse's Age
Event Date 23 Jan 1735
Event Place Tlaltenango De Sanchez Roman,Zacatecas,Mexico
Father's Name Marcos Pinto De Abila
Mother's Name Rosa Maria De Placensia
Spouse's Father's Name Xpstoval Gonsales
Spouse's Mother's Name Brigida De Miramontes
Race
Marital Status
Previous Wife's Name
Spouse's Race
Spouse's Marital Status
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name
Indexing Project (Batch) Number M60713-9
System Origin Mexico-ODM
GS Film number 443968

Jose Carlos de Leon

Comentario

my connection to him is that his great granddaughter Petra Regalada Raigoza married my 5th great granduncle Juan Ydelfonso Mayorga in 19 Feb 1753 Tlaltenango De Sanchez Roman, Zacatecas, Mexico.

My primo Joseph Puentes reccomends that I should share with Nuestros Ranchos my Lorenzo Miramontes data, this is what I have found so far:

1 Lorenzo de Miramontes b: 26 JUL 1638
+ Maria Ana Diaz de Santiago b: MAR 1649
2 Margarita Miramontes b: SEP 1670
2 Miguel Miramontes b: FEB 1696
2 Getrudis Miramontes b: JUN 1692
2 Brigida de Miramontes b: ABT 1675
+ Francisco de Raigoza b: ABT 1675 d: BEF 1704
3 Jose Cayetano Raigoza b: JAN 1703
+ Catarina Sandoval b: ABT 1703
4 Petra Regalada Raigoza b: ABT 1733
+ Juan Ydelfonso Mayorga b: MAY 1720
5 Francisca Romana Mayorga b: MAR 1757
5 Maria De Jesus Mayorga b: MAY 1769
5 Jose Maria Mayorga b: JUL 1763
5 Antonia Lugarda Mayorga b: APR 1755
5 Juana De Dios Mayorga b: MAR 1761
5 Maria Rosalia Mayorga b: JAN 1754
5 Jose Antonio Mayorga b: MAR 1766
+ X Miramontes b: ABT 1675
2 Ysidro Miramontes b: ABT 1689
+ Bernarda De Avila b: ABT 1689
3 Maria Antonia Miramontes b: ABT 1733
+ Hipolito Macias Balades b: ABT 1733
3 Ysidro Miramontes Jr b: APR 1721
+ Sebastiana Faustina De Campos b: ABT 1726
3 Ana Manuela Miramontes b: JUL 1717

Jose Carlos de Leon

Comentario

This dispensa connects Cristobal Gonzalez to Cecilia Sandoval daughter of Juan Moscoso y Sandoval and Catalina Cortes..

Rafael Pinto de Avila m. Maria Gertrudis Gonzalez
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-65PB-C?i=219&wc=125127…

It also places Rosa Maria (Maria de la Rosa) Plascencia m. Marcos Pinto de Avila as a daughter of Pedro Plascencia Maldonado and Melchora de los Reyes Moscoso y Sandoval

Bobadilla del Diccionario Biografico del Occidemte Novohispano de Thomas Hillerkuss

Published by Salvadorc –
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History, Culture and General Discussion

*BOBADILLA*, Francisco de

Encomendero de *Tepechitlán*, al sur de *Tlaltenango*, a principios del
siglo XVII.

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Comentario

LO ultimo del homonimo esta en el libro "Anadariegos y Pobladores de la Nueva España y la Nueva Galicia" del autor Jose Miguel Romero de Solis del Colegio de Colima.

Respecto al Pedro de Bobadilla de Tepechitlan , yo tengo mis dudas de que su esposa era indigena, en mi opinion la primera era Española ya en el transcurso del tiempo pudo tener una mujer indigena, segun recuerdo Pedro trajo a su hija de España , por lo menos en 1616 ya el encomendero era Diego Gonzalez segun reporte del oidor Juan Davalos y Toledo.

Comentario

LO ultimo del homonimo esta en el libro "Anadariegos y Pobladores de la Nueva España y la Nueva Galicia" del autor Jose Miguel Romero de Solis del Colegio de Colima.

Respecto al Pedro de Bobadilla de Tepechitlan , yo tengo mis dudas de que su esposa era indigena, en mi opinion la primera era Española ya en el transcurso del tiempo pudo tener una mujer indigena, segun recuerdo Pedro trajo a su hija de España , por lo menos en 1616 ya el encomendero era Diego Gonzalez segun reporte del oidor Juan Davalos y Toledo.

Comentario

LO ultimo del homonimo esta en el libro "Anadariegos y Pobladores de la Nueva España y la Nueva Galicia" del autor Jose Miguel Romero de Solis del Colegio de Colima.

Respecto al Pedro de Bobadilla de Tepechitlan , yo tengo mis dudas de que su esposa era indigena, en mi opinion la primera era Española ya en el transcurso del tiempo pudo tener una mujer indigena, segun recuerdo Pedro trajo a su hija de España , por lo menos en 1616 ya el encomendero era Diego Gonzalez segun reporte del oidor Juan Davalos y Toledo.

Making The Change: To WebOnly

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Announce.

The handwriting is on the

Making The Change: To WebOnly

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The handwriting is on the

Assistance with reading document/ ayuda con leer documento: carta de dote, Alfonsina de la Paz

Published by jrefugioghermosillo –
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Genealogy Research

Hola prim@s,

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Comentario

Great find, thank you for sharing this with the group! I have studied quite a bit on D. Luis Moreno de Monroy, who is of great interest to me, as he and his wife, instituted the "Mayorazgo of Moreno de Monroy" in their son, D. Diego Moreno de Monroy y López de la Paz, I Mayorazgo. This would be passed down as an "intact entity" down to the Independence until the last V Mayorazgo of Moreno de Monroy, D. Manuel de Luyando Bermeo y Porres Baranda Núñez de Villavicencio, Alférez Real de la Ciudad de México.

All of us who descend from the López de la Cruz and Martín del Campo are related to these families including the Cuervo y Valdés, Guerrero de Villaseca, Gallo de Villavicencio, Luyando-Bermeo, Berrio y Zaldívar, Ocio y Ocampo, Aguirre-Cuevas, etc. It is interesting to see how Spanish population has ties from Guadalajara to Mexico City.

Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino

Comentario

My Alfonsina de la Paz did use "Alfonsina de la Cruz," on one occasion, so it's definitely "Cruz." I have to agree with you, Alex, ​I see "Juan de la Cruz," and I think I see "Franca" on the next line. But my sister thinks she sees "Graviel de la Cruz," which is why I wanted more opinions: Gabriel Lopez de la Cruz was married to Ana de la Paz, also giving us possible sources for "Cruz" and "Paz." But after comparing the notary's capital "G" and "J" in other documents, we agreed that the name is "Juan de la Cruz." Therefore, his wife's name is likely "Francisca de Renteria o Ayala" Thanks, Alex, good eye!

Juan de la Cruz died and was buried 27 Dec 1614, in Guadalajara, and one of his albaseas was Gabriel Lopez de la Cruz, so there was contact between these two. My guess is that Juan de la Cruz is son of Francisco Lopez de la Cruz cc Alfonsina de la Paz, early settlers in Guadalajara. He did name his daughter Alfonsina de la Paz, and his first son, Francisco (whose padrinos were Luis Moreno de Monroy and his wife, Catalina Lopez de la Paz, who was daughter of Francisco Lopez de la Cruz cc Alfonsina de la Paz). In an unsourced online tree, I saw the parents of Francisco Lopez de la Cruz named as Juan de la Cruz cc Marina Lopez, which would give us the origin of Juan de la Cruz's name, and explain why he doesn't use "Lopez." Hopefully, I can find the documentation to connect all of the dots.

Btw, I have some great info on Gabriel Lopez de la Cruz cc Ana de la Paz, if anyone needs it. She's daughter of Diego Lopez de la Cruz cc Bernardina de Estrada, and granddaughter of Francisco Lopez de la Cruz cc Alfonsina de la Paz. They were dispensed at 3/4 consanguinity, through their paternal lines.

Thanks!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

This is the almoneda de los bienes (estate sale) de Alfonsina de la Paz cc Francisco Lopez de la Cruz, dated 18 Apr 1589; her albacea was her son, Diego Lopez de la Cruz, and he mentions two minor brothers, named Juan Alonso and Francisco Sanchez. I'm thinking this Juan Alonso is the same Juan de la Cruz who married Francisca de Ayala.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-69X3-W?i=303&cat=…

From what I've been reading in old NR threads, anyone who descends from Lazaro Martin del Campo cc Maria Lopez de la Cruz should be interested in this thread:

I. Francisco Lopez de la Cruz cc Alfonsina de la Paz
II. Diego Lopez de la Cruz cc Bernardina de Estrada
III. Maria de Estrada cc Juan Baptista Vallin
IV. Maria Lopez de la Cruz cc Lazaro Martin del Campo.​

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/archives/2003h1/msg00200.html

​Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo​

Comentario

Great work Manny,

I descend from Lazaro Martin del Campo and Maria Lopez de la Cruz numerous times.

Thank you for sharing!

Rick A. Ricci

P.S.
I. Francisco Lopez de la Cruz cc Alfonsina de la Paz
II. Diego Lopez de la Cruz (b.in Santa Olaya, Toledo, Spain) cc Bernardina de Estrada. (Daughter of Juan Benito and Maria Alcántara)
III. Maria de Estrada cc Juan Baptista Vallin ( son of Pierre Vallin/Valliy and Catalina Del Valle)
IV. Maria Lopez de la Cruz cc Lazaro Martin del Campo.​( aka Bartolomé de San Lázaro Martin del Campo, son of Bartolomé Martin del Campo and Juana Garcia Galán)

Comentario

Hi Rick,

You’re welcome. You’ll want the limpieza de sangre of Gabriel Lopez de la Cruz, since it includes the limpieza of his wife, Ana de la Paz, daughter of Diego Lopez de la Cruz cc Bernardina de Estrada. It gives an approximate year of the arrival of her grandparents, Francisco Lopez de la Cruz cc Alfonsina de la Paz:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-C7CL-T?i=335&cat=…

And his son’s, Bachiller Francisco Lopez de Guzman:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-C9NZ-J?cat=31792

One of the testigos on the first one was Luis Moreno de Monroy, who was married to Catalina Lopez de la Paz. Their son, Regidor Diego Moreno de Monroy, is also a testigo.

Gabriel’s limpieza is in great condition, and is very legible. His bio is very interesting, and includes an escudo. Enjoy!

Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Rick
Have you got a line of ancestry for the Vallin/Valliy side? I have a Victoria Vallin/Ballin (spelling alternates in her children's baptism records) born about 1708 in Guanajuato (though I haven't myself confirmed that place of birth yet). I have not been able to find any info on her family at all. Her husband was Juan Sanches Salgado, married 25 Oct 1726 in Nochistlan.
Thank you!

Lizama Surname?

Published by PappyRod –
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Genealogy Research

I recently discovered a paternal line that leads back to Gregorio Lizama, circa 1810, father of Severiano Lizama, and husband of Guadalupe Guerrero.

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Comentario

I wonder if Lizama is a variation of Lizarra (Elizarra).

I don’t t have Lizama in my family tree but I do descend from the Elizarra Family from Aguascalientes.

Rick A. Ricci

duarte families

Published by stephmartinez316 –
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Genealogy Research

can anyone tell me about the duarte families while rereading notes and or family search records my line is looking to be as follows:

Francisco Duarte
7th great-grandfather

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Comentario

Hello- are all the ancestors you reference from San Luis Potosí? It would be helpful to have cities and dates associated with each.
Best,
Maven

Comentario

hi sorry for the delay yes the duartes im referring too in my family tree as follows for example :Jose Ponciano Duarte
1809–1862
BIRTH 1809
DEATH 25 MARCH 1862 • San Luis Potosí, México
5th great-grandfather san luis potosi mentions marriages and or other relecvances of baptisms for children which is 8 of them that i had found and he married maria gertrudis segovia of which i cant find too much out about the segovias or the remainders of the duartes past what i do have. at this time my father has just been buried sadly he died a few weeks after his brother so ive been taking some time to grieve over their deaths. the father was benancio duarte whos parents were noted in san luis potosi marriage record of 1799 as francisco duarte and or maria de los santos.at this time im still searching through records or whatever in order to affix dates in my tree.

Comentario

Hello- are all the ancestors you reference from San Luis Potosí? It would be helpful to have cities and dates associated with each.
Best,
Maven

Ever see a child baptized twice?

Published by 245luigi –
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Genealogy Research

Check out Lugarda on this page

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-VKS3-4T?i=264&wc=3JCC-…

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Comentario

I have also seen someone with two baptismal records. My maternal grandfather had his baptism recorded in both Tepatitlan and Jalostotitlán. Both records had enough detail to show that they were talking about the same person, but the record in Jalostotitlán provided even more details like the exact time of birth.

Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Juana, daughter of Juan Alonso de los Hinojos cc Beatriz Lopez del Castillo, was baptized on 7 Aug, 1613, in Zamora, Mich, “echo la agua de baptismo” Padre Jose Gomez presbitero, and her padrino was Padre Miguel de Ovalle, cura beneficiado de Tlasasalca,
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-GY3K-7Q?i=11&wc=3NTR-B…

Juana was baptized again on 30 Dec 1613, “pusieron los santos oleos.” Her madrina was the child’s grandmother, Juana Lopez. The partida from the Aug baptism is annotated in the margin, and says “pusieron los ss oleos en 30 de dize deste año.”
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-GY3K-HR?i=12&wc=3NTR-B…

I’ve been going through the indexes for the Inquisicion in Mexico, and I’ve seen more than one priest being prosecuted for baptizing the same child twice. Maybe things loosened up in later years?

Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Ive seen something like this once before. I think they're probly errors. The other one I saw was clearly an error cause the dates were the same so the record wasn't written at the moment of baptism but at a different time so they apparently didn't realize they wrote it twice. but this one has different dates which seems weird but im guessing its the same reason

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Yes, I have seen this. I have a relative that his bautismo was writen on one day, then I found him again writen on a different day. However, the information was the same on both entries. Don't know why they did this.

Ways to find Pablo de Alba ?

Published by Abraham –
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Genealogy Research

Dear Primos,
I have been trying with no aveil, to find a brother of (Jose) Pedro de Alba Perez, he was the youngest, named Pablo of parents: (Jose) Lamberto (de) Alva Jimenes and Librada Perez Muños,

Comentarios

Comentario

Dear Abraham,

Here is part of the ancestral branch that you are looking for:

José Pedro De Alba Perez is the son of Lamberto De Alba and Librada Perez

Jose Lamberto De Alba Jiménez is the son of Jose Blas De Alba and Maria Adelaida de Jesus Jiménez Martin del Campo

Jose Blas De Alba is the son of Luis De Alva and Ana María Perez Franco

Luis De Alba is the son of Sebastian De Alba and Ma. Antonia De Villalobos

Sebastian De Alba is the son of Manuel De Alba and Catarina Martin del Campo

Maria Adelaida de Jesus Jiménez Martin del Campo was the daughter of Jose Primitivo Jimenez Romo and San Juana Martin del Campo Perez

Jose Primitivo Jiménez Romo de Vivar is the son of Lino Jimenez and Maria Guadalupe Romo De Vivar( daughter of Jose Miguel Romo De Vivar and Micaela Inocencia Ruiz De Esparza

////////;//////
Maria Librada Perez Muñoz is the daughter of José Anacleto Pérez Martin and Higinia Muñoz

José Anacleto Pérez Martin del Campo is the son of Luis Perez Franco and Maria De Jesus Martin del Campo

Luis Perez Franco is the son of Antonio Perez Franco and Maria Francisca Jiménez De Mendoza

I have a lot more info on their ancestry, but I don’t have the time right now to post all the info. Send me your email address and I will send you the information later when I have more time.

You are a distant cousin of mine. You descend repeatedly from the Perez Franco, Martin del Campo and Romo de Vivar. Many many times over as cousins married cousins over and over again.

Good luck in your research primo,
Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Hi, Abraham, here's something that might help you with Pablo de Alba Perez.

Since he married Maria Josefa Padilla Gonzalez 19 July 1910 in San Juan de
Los Lagos, Jalisco, he was 22 years old and Josefa was 19 years old. His
birth would be 1888 or close to that. The record does say that his parents
were: Lamberto de Alva and Librada Perez. Her parents were: Ramon Padilla
and Josefa Gonzalez. This is found in Civil Registration, Marriages,
1861-1961, San Juan de Los Lagos (1906-1910) Image 701.

Pablo de Alba Perez died at the age of 71 years old from "Infarto"
>> (stroke?) 7 August 1959 and this was registered 8 August 1859, in
>> Aguascalientes, Mexico, Civil Registration, Deaths (1859-1961),
>> Aguascalientes 1959, Image 676, Page216. Found in Ancestry.com which you
>> can access free of charge through a Family History Center in your area.
>
>
In a birth of Jose Pedro de Alba Perez, it says that Jose Pedro was
registered and christened on the same day of 17 December 1886, in San Juan
Bautista, San Juan de Los Lagos, Jalisco. Stating also that his parents
were Lamberto de Alva and Librada Perez. Also this baptism states that
Jose Pedro's Grandparents were Blas de Alba and Adelaida Jimenez. His
maternal grandparents are also listed as Cleto Perez and Higinia Muñoz.

The source is Jalisco, San Juan de Los Lagos, San Juan Bautista, Bautismos
de hijos legitimos, Film #4024061 1886-1888, Images 142-143.

A little more information on your family follows in a 2nd email.

I don't know how to link directly but again if you want to go to a Family
History Center, they will be able to show you how.

Hope this helped some.
esther@enhanced.org

On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 11:39 AM, Abraham de Alba A.
wrote:

> Dear Primos,
> I have been trying with no aveil, to find a brother of (Jose) Pedro de
> Alba Perez, he was the youngest, named Pablo of parents: (Jose) Lamberto
> (de) Alva Jimenes and Librada Perez Muños, most probably born in San Juan
> de los Lagos. He is mentioned in one of my Grandfather's book, mentions
> that he was a Shoemaker. Only reference that I can find is his marriage to
> Maria Josefa Padilla Gonzalez, 19 July 1910 in San Juan de los Lagos.
> Had to be born after 1886, (date my grandfather was born).
> Is there another search engine other than Familysearch ??
> I have tried most conbinations, such as: de Alba, Alva, Jose Pablo, with
> Lamberto and Librada as parents,
> Nothing works,
> Any hints, or help will be greatly appreciated.
> The novice
> “If all you are trying to do is essentially the same thing as everyone
> else, then it’s unlikely you will be very successful.” ~ Michael Porter
>
>
>
>
> Abraham de Alba Avila
> Terrestrial Plant Ecology, Permaculture and Holistic Management & Low
> Stress Animal Handling SKYPE: adealba55 cel: 449-100-9966
>

RIP Ronnie Reynoso

Published by RaquelRuiz –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

I learned today from my aunt who attends the same church as Ronnie in
Claremont, CA, that he died on Tuesday, March 6 of cancer. He was 63.

Comentarios

Comentario

Ronnie will be sorely missed on this forum. He helped many and contributed
freely and grew a large family of cousins through his research. My
condolences to his family and his many cousins. I'll miss our "ChileRey"

Joseph

> -----Original Message-----
> From: General [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On
> Behalf Of Raquel Ruiz
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2018 12:31 AM
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] RIP Ronnie Reynoso
>
> I learned today from my aunt who attends the same church as Ronnie in
> Claremont, CA, that he died on Tuesday, March 6 of cancer. He was 63.
> He was a cousin of many of us, a fellow family genealogist, and a
> frequent contributor to this site. He will be missed.
>
> -Raquel Ruiz

Comentario

Hi, Raquel:

It is sad to hear about Ronnie Reynoso passing at such an early age.
He was a very nice, likeable person, he was also my "Primo"
May he rest in peace.
I had another Cousin, Francisco Gonzalez Gonzalez, born in Teocaltiche, Jalisco.
He lived in Las Vegas, Nevada for a number of years.
He passed away on the same day as Ronnie...Francisco died from a long
fight against Hepatitis-C acquired since he was a teen-ager...He was 75. May he Rest in Peace.

John Gonzalez
Wildomar, CA
1gnzlz@verizon.net

Comentario

What horrible news. May he rest in peace.

Ronnie was a distant cousin also.
Several of us had been to his house to share info on the Los Altos, Jalisco intermarriages.
He had a lot of information.
He always was a happy person, with a kind and giving heart.

RIP cousin.

Ken Alva

-----Original Message-----
From: Raquel Ruiz
To: general
Sent: Sun, Mar 11, 2018 9:30 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] RIP Ronnie Reynoso

I learned today from my aunt who attends the same church as Ronnie in
Claremont, CA, that he died on Tuesday, March 6 of cancer. He was 63. He
was a cousin of many of us, a fellow family genealogist, and a frequent
contributor to this site. He will be missed.

-Raquel Ruiz

Calvillo, Ags. 1834 Census de la parroquia.

Published by serna_david –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Saludos, the Path on NR as follows :
FILES > REFERENCE MATERIALS > VALLE DE HUEJUCAR is a .doc document
... This seems to be a reference to LDS film number 635924 San Jose de Calvillo

Comentarios

Comentario

David

Go to the Family search catalog and search for this film number. Follow the link for Calvillo church records. Then you can either search the page for the film number, or scroll down to it.

Click on the camera icon on the right side of the entry and it will take you to the film.

This film is entitled matrimonial,investigations.

George Fulton

Help reading document. Phelipe Mexia and Ma de la Rosa Sandoval marriage Nochistlan

Published by Don Animas –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hi,
I am having trouble following who is whose parent, grandparent, and great grandparent.
I got so far that Bernardino Mexia and Maria de Luna are Phelipe's parents.

Comentarios

Comentario

The page you linked says:

Juan Sandoval was the father of the "pretensa", son of Melchor de Moscoso y Sandoval. Melchor is the legitimate brother of Mariana de Moscoso y Sandoval who has as a daughter Magdalena de Isalas and Magdalena de Islas had as a son Bernardino de Mejia, and Bernardino de Mejia had as a son Felipe de Mejia

Comentario

Thank you,

I wasn't sure I was reading it right before since the chain started with the bride's surname (Sandoval) and ended with the groom's surname (Mexia).

Rosa Maria Sandoval married the great grandson (Phelipe Mexia) of her grandfather's (Melchor de Moscoso de Sandoval) sister (Mariana de Moscoso y Sandoval).

Presentación personal / Personal Introduction

Published by ktbusa –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Presentación personal / Personal Introduction

Saludos a todos / Greetings everyone,

I am new to the group, although not so new to doing Los Altos genealogical research. My name is Kassandra Brenot; I am the great-grand-daughter of a Los Altos couple who came to the U.S. during the cristero war.

Comentarios

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Jue, 2017-08-10 19:26 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Dear Kasandra,

In the tree that you submitted you have two sets of possible parents for Gertrudis Macias Valadez. This is the correct line:

Nicolas Cayetano Pedroza and Maria Gertrudis Macias Valadez are the parents of Paula Guadalupe de la Trinidad Pedroza

Nicolas is the son of Antonio Pedroza and Teresa Macias Valadez

Gertrudis is the daughter of Sebastian Macias Valadez and Petronila Muñoz de Nava

Sebastian is the son of Balthazar Macias Valadez and Luisa Jimenez Olibares

Balthazar is the son of Alonso Macias Valadez and Ursula Alvarez

Alonso is the son of Nicolas Alonso Macias Valadez and Leonor
Retamosa

Nicolas Macias is the son of Blas Macias and Catalina Ramirez

Petronila Muñoz de Nava (aka Muñoz de Hermosillo, aka Lopez de Nava) is the daughter of Luis Muñoz de Nava and Catalina Garcia de Hermosillo.

Catalina Is the daughter of Agustin Garcia de Hermosillo and Maria Muñoz de la Barba

The Garcia de Hermosillo surname comes from the father of the two Gonzalez de Hermosillo brothers that came to the "Indias" from Spain. That father's name was Gonzalo Garcia de Hermosillo. As sons of Gonzalo they took the surname Gonzalez de Hermosillo (Gonzalez means son of Gonzalo).

Wish you a great start to the new school year,
Rick

Comentario

Thank you very much, Rick. I will look up the dates of baptisms, weddings, etc. Do you know if they are easily searchable on LDS films through familysearch?

Thank you so much for sharing this info with me.

Saludos de
Kassandra

Comentario

As simply an interesting side note regarding our ancestors Nicolas Cayetano Pedroza and his wife Gertrudis Macias, in my research notes from 1997, I came across the following baptismal entry of an abandoned child left at the home of Don Nicolas de Pedrosa:

Baptism of María del Rosario
1749 Apr 20, El Zaus, San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco, Mexico
LDS Film #220664

Zaus // Ma. del Rosario // expuesta // 446 //
En la Pila de Nra. Sra. de S. Ju. feliga. de Xatn. en vein // te de Abril de setos. qta. y nueve a. como the. de Cura del Sr. Lcdo. // Dn. Jph. Feijao, Bapise puse los s. oleos a Ma. del Rosario expuesta // a la casa de Nicolas de Pedrosa, fueron P.P. el dho. Nicolas, y Gertru // dis Masias a quienes adverti su obligacon. y parentesco y lo firme // Pedro Joseph de // Cuellar y Gonz.

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Dom, 2017-08-06 18:40 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Marcelina is correct that descendants of Alteños have some Muslim ancestry. As a percentage of the DNA, it is very small. My research has gone beyond the borders of Mexico and extended to the Iberian peninsula and beyond. From our ancestors in Spain I have at least five lines of Muslim ancestry for Christian ancestors of Alteños. Six if you count who I believe to be Carlo Lomelini's mother. I present the evidence for these claims in my book. One of these lines is the Martin del Campo who have French, German, Muslim, and Spanish ancestors.

Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Hola a todos:

La familia Ramírez desciende del Infante Don Ramiro de Navarra, quien según la leyenda fue a la primera cruzada tomando la piscina probática de Jerusalén. Dicho infante dio lugar al linaje Ramírez de la Piscina, para tener una aproximación a los descendientes puedes ver la página Casa y solar Ramírez de la Piscina. De ahí se van desprendiendo ramas, una de ellas es la de los mariscales de Castilla: Ramírez de Arellano. Ésta rama tuvo a su servicio varias familias judías que se bautizaron también como Ramírez.

Ésta familia se va asentando en diferentes lugares de la península ya que participó en las órdenes militares de San Juan de Jerusalén y en la Orden del Temple.

Una de las ramas se estableció en Villescusa de Haro y de esa rama desciende Don Sebastián Ramírez de Fuenleal que fue uno de los primeros gobernantes después de Cristóbal y Diego Colón, quien facilitó la entrada en las Indias de muchos de sus parientes.

Yo desciendo de la rama Ramírez de Coy que se extendió por más de diez países, hay una rama en Arandas fundada por Doña Jerónima Ramírez de Coy y Miguel de Coss y León. Es una rama muy extendida relacionada también con los Ramírez de Alarcón. Hasta la fecha no he estudiado a la rama Ramírez de Hermosillo para saber de qué rama desciende.

No creo que los Ramírez de Hermosillo ni los Ramírez de Coy desciendan de la rama de Muley Hacen. Ésta rama es difícil de identificar pues durante las conversiones se bautizó quizá a miles de personas con los nombres de Isabel y Fernando en honor a los reyes. La hija de Muley Hacén y su marido fueron bautizados como Fernando Ramírez e Isabel Ramírez.

Visita la ermita de Santa María de la Piscina en la Rioja.

Saludos

Marcelina

Comentario

Gracias por la respuesta, Marcelina, y sobre la información sobre la leyenda del Infante Don Ramiro de Navarre que dio lugar al linaje Ramírez de la Piscina. Sería interesante saber si los Ramírez de Hermosillo desciendan de la(s) mismas ramas pero, como Ud. señala, dadas las miles de conversiones y además con los nombre de Fernando e Isabel, es muy difícil identificar.

Si voy a España algún día, tendré que visitar la ermita de Santa María de la Piscina en la Rioja.

Saludos de
Kassandra

Comentario

Dear Rick,

Thank you for your reply. Given our recent exchange about the rabbinic line and Germany, does Martín del Campo, if we go back far enough, tie into that at all?

It is very timely that you mention the Martín del Campo line because the subject of this surname came up at our recent family get together a few weeks ago. When I l was researching through the SHHAR group, Mary Lou had helped me fill out this line, to Capitan Lázaro Martín del Campo.

I have done some reading on this site of past postings about the Martín del Campo surname(i.e. the 2003 posting http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/archives/2003h1/msg00200.html). It appears that it is purely an alteño composed surname.

I have many cousins who are Campos. The family story is that the name was originally Martín del Campo. Do you know that to be correct, Rick, and if so, about when did the surname begin to deviate from Martín del Campo to Campos (I have read that there are also Martínez in the los Altos region, which derived from Martín del Campo).

Has more work been done to go past Capitan Lázaro Martín del Campo?

Lastly, when can we expect your book to be published, Rick. I, for one, am very eager to purchase it.

Best,
Kassandra

Comentario

Dear Kassandra,

The Martin del Campo does not have anything to do with the Jewish lines that I have studied. They can be traced to a certain French town through DNA which confirms the paper trail record that I have. They do have a German ancestor.

Yes, more research has been done to go further than Lazaro Martin del Campo. I have that information in my book. In support of that research is physical evidence. Last year I was at a family gathering after a funeral of a fourth cousin when the topic came up as to how I was related to everyone there. My fourth cousins mother's surname is Martin del Campo. I explained that we were fourth cousins through the Martin del Campo. I also stated that I had been a close friend of the family before I found out that we were related. They asked me to explain how I came to find out how we were related so I told them how I have spent most of my life researching the genealogy of Los Altos de Jalisco. I explained where the Martin de Campo had come from before coming to Mexico.

I was pleasantly surprised with the response, that I had confirmed what one of them had already known through a doctor who had analyzed the results of some physical tests she had taken. It seems that she had been to a doctor who stated that they were dumbfounded by her results of their testing of a physical condition as the results were similar to those found only with a connection to a certain town in France, since she was of Mexican descent. This person that received this report from the doctor is not an official member of nuestrosranchos but she told me that a friend of hers is, and that her friend helps her access the site and reads many of the posts to her. I hope she responds to this post through her friend to confirm this report.

The closest Muslim ancestor that I know of is Carlo Lomellini's mother, and it is yet to be confirmed that he is the same Carlo Lomelin of our ancestry. All of the other Muslim ancestry that I mentioned goes way back, before the 1500's. Now that you have me thinking about the French and Muslim ancestry, I recall that another ancestor of ours that is French was known to have Muslim ancestry. We descend from the sister of this great French knight who was very famous and most stories about him include that his father's side of the family had some Muslim ancestry. So we have six confirmed Muslim ancestries before the 1500's, with the seventh Muslim ancestry being the mother of Carlo Lomellini, who is the only one born after 1500. This French knight brother of our ancestor plays a big role in the family history of our de la Torre Ledesma family.

Wife and I have many Martin del Campo ancestors. Our closest blood relationship is through our Martin del Campo lines. My wife and I are fifth cousins many times over. As to your Campos line, my mother-in-law, who is also relative of yours, is also from San Miguel el Alto, and she has Campos in her family tree. I traced the Campos line and found where it had changed from Martin del Campo. So it has been confirmed by me that it is a branch of the same family,

I don't know when the book is being published because I have to put everything aside, and get back to teaching as the school year starts next week. I am changing grades, and schools, so I plan on being very busy the next few months. My daughter also has a tough year coming up as she is entering her junior year in high school and expects me to be by her side as she tackles AP Calculus. That is why i took precalculus this summer and put off finishing the book. I don't recommend taking precalculus in a condensed summer time period as there is a tremendous amount of material to be covered in too short of a time. It probably didn't help that I still continued a little genealogy research as I dug deep down into the Herrera family history when I should have only been focused on precalculus and trigonometry, but genealogy research is a tough habit to break. I will keep you up to date as to when it will be published. A couple of days ago I sent my latest research findings on the Herrera's family to our mutual friend and cousin, Mary Lou. I will soon post those results on the Herrera's here on nuestrosranchos.

Thanks,
Rick

P.S. I descend from the sister of the greatest French knight, the sister of the greatest Spanish knight, from el Cid who is the most famous knight, and a possible descent from he greatest knight that ever lived, William Marshall, through my de la Torre Ledesma line. I hope to have a section in my book on these knights describing their feats, and how they, or their sisters, left descendants in Los altos de Jalisco.

Comentario

Dear Rick,

You have really piqued my interest with the Martín del Campos French connection, particularly since I married a Frenchman and I have lived and studied in France! What town/village do our line(s)/the Martín del Campos trace back to in France?

The genetic condition you made reference to made me think of one of my own sisters. I have no idea what the condition is that you are referring to, but one of my own sisters, and now her son, was born with a Mongolian birth mark. Our childhood pediatrician, who also happened to be my mother's pediatrician when she was a child, said it came down through my mother's los Altos side. Interesting. Have you ever heard of this in your family discussions/research? You got me thinking with what you mentioned.

I, too, am now in the thick of preparing for the new school year. Where are you located? Would love to meet up some time. Perhaps we can get all the primos together who do research. I remember being at Marylou's house with Mariano Gonzalez Leal about 20 years ago and having an absolutely magical afternoon. Time goes so fast. We need to carry on the torch!

Suerte with the new school year,
Kassandra

Comentario

Greatest French knight: Bertrand du Guesclin.( he had a little Muslim ancestry on his father's side)

Greatest Spanish knight: Juan "Bravo" Merlo (he did have Potuguese ancestry, along with a French Jewish ancestor.)

Most Famous knight: " el Cid " Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar. (Spanish ancestry)

Greatest Knight that ever lived: William Marshall (Englishman, with some French ancestry)

Comentario

Hello Rick,

I'm picking up this thread again and hoping we can continue the conversation about the Martín del Campo line and the research you've done on them tracing them back to a certain town in France? Would love to what town that is and the genetic condition tied to that town you made reference to in your posting of 8/9/17.

Hope the new school year is off to a great start for you.

Best regards,
prima Kassandra

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Sáb, 2017-08-05 13:57 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Saludos Kassandra,

In my earlier post, I mentioned that you were related to both me and my wife. What I should have written was that we are related repeatedly due to the " endogamia" amongst "los Alteños".

I have much information to add to your family tree. I don't have a publishing date because I keep finding new information that I am adding to the book. Professional and family duties prevent me from working full time on this hobby.

I have done much research on a couple of your ancestors that you have as a deadend. Unfortunately I still have more research to do before posting my conclusions on the ancestry of Nicolas de Loza and Antonia Diaz de Leon. Unfortunately, some genealogists have posted false family trees on this couple. They confuse Antonia with an aunt of hers with the same name. They also give different parents for Nicolas Loza. Manny's research has provided valuable leads to figuring out the puzzle.

Some of the Jewish ancestry is not Sephardic. Ashkenazi Jews from France and Germany left descendants in northern Spain that I believe to be the ancestors of Toribio Hernandez Arellano. One of our Jewish lines can be traced for many many centuries because it is a rabbinic line that left records in Spain and in Germany. The German branch took many records with them when they left Spain. These records show the line for over two thousand years, with the family living for a time in what is now Iraq.

Your cousin,
Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Now this is absolutely fascinating, primo! It corroborates the family stories of having ancestors from France and northern Spain. I had not heard of a connection to Germany but rather to Austria, but perhaps that was Germany given the political demarcations of the era in which the story was passed on?

Some of the rabbinic lineage being Ashkenazi through northern Spain is intriguing. When did this German line leave Spain? Would that have been in 1492 at the time of the Alhambra Decree or at a different time?

I am still presuming there are a few Sephardic Jewish lines in our lineage...? If so, which ones would they be? I am wondering if they are in the Padilla line by chance? This is just a hunch, nothing more. Please know that I have not touched my research in years and at that time I was ordering microfilms a few at a time and scrolling through them "old school!" To now see so many from the parishes of Jalos, San Miguel, San Juan de los Lagos, etc. all posted online is such a gift!

Clearly, countless hours of investigation have been done by members of this group. Since one of the families I mentioned in my first post shares Loza lineage with me, we will make sure to not make the mistake of confusing the ancestry of Antonia Díaz. This is very helpful information. Muchísimas gracias.

Hasta pronto,
Kassandra

Comentario

Kassandra,

You are correct as to there being a descent from Austria that is connected to southern France and northern Spain. This is the Ashkenazi line connected to what I believe is the ancestry of Toribio Hernandez Arellano. I have been studying different Jewish lines in the Iberian peninsula. The Padilla ancestry does include Sephardic ancestry just as you suspected. The de la Torre Ledesma line is related to this Sephardic ancestry.

The German line that I wrote about had to do with Jews leaving Spain and going to Germany. These Jews took their family records with them and stayed Jewish. so we had very distant cousins that we could connect to through family records that suffered through the holocaust. The records survived although many of our distant cousins did not.

I started over forty years ago so I too did much of my research "old school", and although much of my research has been advanced through technology, I am glad that I went through the Old school way of researching as it provided Much practice in looking for "threads", and following up on these clues.

Mary Lou has also helped me with my research. Just recently, she provided valuable papers for my research on Lope Ruiz de Esparza.

Hasta pronto,
Rick

Comentario

Thank you for confirming that hunch on the Padilla line, Rick, and the de la Torre Ledesma link to this Sephardic ancestry.

Indeed, much was to be learned through scrolling through the films and following up on threads.

How interesting that the German line about which you wrote earlier went to Germany and suffered the holocaust.

Just last week when researching one of the families from my school I came across a Padilla dispensation with some good information. I will post it to share with everyone, in case it is useful for others doing Padilla research.

Gracias de nuevo,
Kassandra

Comentario

Hola Kassandra.

Así como hay diferentes estudios sobre los linajes criptojudíos también los hay sobre las familias criptomusulmanas. Algunos musulmanes forzados a convertirse al cristianismo se agruparon en cofradías que les permitieron conservar algunas costumbres.

Yo desciendo de los Ramírez de Coy, es decir de Coy, Murcia ligados a las órdenes militares en algún momento supuse que podrían ser criptomusulmanes pero no se confirmó mi hipótesis. Aún así estuve leyendo sobre esos temas.

Al estudiar dichos temas -además porque toda mi familia admira a Federico García Lorca- me di cuenta que éste no era precisamente gitano en cuanto a su inspiración, incluso el Romancero Gitano no es en realidad gitano sino andalucista (criptomusulmán) ya que la única poesía completamente gitana es el Romance de la Guardia Civil Española, los demás poemas en realidad se refieren a temas de Al Andaluz por ejemplo "hijo de Benamejí".

Al leer diversas biografías del poeta creí que lo persiguieron por su orientación de izquierda o su orientación sexual, pero parece que en realidad estuvo involucrado con el movimiento andalucista que pretendía un regreso a la cultura hispano musulmana. Si te interesara el tema puedes ver en youtube la historia de Blas Infante, quien por cierto fue también fusilado en esa época. Existen retratos de Federico con ropa musulmana, con turbante.

Aunque mi hipótesis sobre los Ramírez no se confirmó sí encontré una rama musulmana de la familia Ramírez que desciende de Muley Hacén.

Marcelina

Comentario

Querida Marcelina,

Esto jamás he escuchado, y lo encuentro absolutamente fascinante. Voy a ver la historia de Blas Infante en YouTube; el hecho de que García Lorca estuvo involucrado con el movimiento andalucista que pretendía un regreso a la cultura hispano-musulmuna es un gran descubrimiento para mi y, efectivamente, cambia toda interpretación/análisis de su obra..

En cuanto a una rama musulmana en la familia Ramírez que desciende de Muley Hacen, ¿cual rama Ramírez de los Altos?

En mi linaje yo desciendo de Nicolas Ramírez de Hermosillo cc Rosa Bárbara Gutiérrez el 26 de enero 1761 en Nuestra Sra. de la Asunción, Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. Según unas notitas que tengo, sus hijos eran:
1.Encarnación cc Juan Miguel de Herrera
2. Juana María Gertrudis, b. Jan 1763, San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco
3. María Catola Gertrudis, b. April 1764, San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco, San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco
4. Juana María Gerrutidis b. Jan 1766, San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco
5., Joseph Salvador , b. Oct 1767, b. Jalostotitlan
6. Nicolas Salvador Olayo R., b. Feb. 1769, San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco
7. Juana Rosa Gertrudis, b. Oct. 1770, San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco

¿Es este linaje Ramírez de Hermosillo acaso el que fuera musulman? ¿O tal vez otro Ramírez por otra rama...?

Gracias por su ayuda.
Kassandra

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Vie, 2017-08-04 21:21 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Welcome to the group Kassandra. You are a distant cousin of mine. You are also a distant cousin of my wife whose parents are from San Miguel el Alto.

Here is a little addition to your family tree:

Cristobal Vasquez de Lara is married on the 28/Oct/1668 to Juana Fernandez de Rueda. Juana is the daughter of Alonso Fernandez de Rueda and Ana De Anda Altamirano.

Ana is the daughter of Juan De Anda Altamirano and Juana Ruiz de Nava.
I
Juan De Anda Altamirano is the son of Pedro de Anda Altamirano and Beatriz Gonzalez de Castañeda.

Beatriz is the daughter of Pedro de Castañeda

These are also your ancestors:

Luis Padilla married to Fabiana Diaz Tiscareño

Luis is the son of Francisco de Padilla and Ana Munoz de la Barba.

Fabiana is the daughter of Nicolas Diaz and Juana Isassi Martin del Campo

From Fabiana you descend from Lope Ruiz de Esparza and his wife. I am writing a book on his and her ancestry. His wife descends from Moctezuma II. I have stories of some of the family members' bad experience with the inquisition. I also have some other family stories that I find interesting.

Good luck in your research,
Rick A. Ricci

Published by ktbusa – Sáb, 2017-08-05 05:28 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Muchísimas gracias, Rick! My Marquez cousins have spoken about the Moctezuma connection, and it has been a mystery to me so I am so glad to know the lineage now. I have been keenly interested in the Sephardic ancestry, too, and researching quite a bit about it. I understand that the Padilla and Muñoz lines were probably conversos... as well as others in our shared lineage? Any information you can share with me on that would be most helpful. Thank you so much for replying to my post.

I look forward to reading your upcoming book. When will it be published?

Saludos de
Kassandra

Comentario

Hola Kassandra:

El apellido Riquelme proviene de Murcia, España, de la zona de Lorca llamada Coy de los Riquelmes.

El apellido Machuca es de Granada, España.

Los Lomelín puedes estudiarlos en los nodos anteriores proviene de Génova, más atrás de Lombardía y posiblemente de los bárbaros longobardos.

Hay ya muchos avances en el estudio de algunas ramas por lo que te recomiendo que explores los estudios de Manny, Richard, El Capitán Paco...

Saludos y bienvenida

Marcelina

Comentario

Hola Marcelina,

Muchas gracias por la respuesta y por la información sobre el apellido Riquelme. No sabía que proviene de la zona de Federico García Lorca. Conozco muy bien su obra pues he enseñado su obra desde hace años. Qué lindo saber esto, y además que Machuca es apellido granadino. Es curioso el apellido, ¿no?

Voy a explorar los estudios de Manny, Richard y el Capitán Paco. Gracias de nuevo.

Kassandra

Published by Marinero – Mar, 2018-03-06 16:45 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Good Evening,

I would like to introduce myself as a new member to the Nuestros Ranchos
genealogy group.

My name is Justin Marquez Martin (Blanck mother's name). I am American born
and first generation Mexican American whose mother was American..

My father was born in Sam Miguel el Alto, Jalisco Mexico in April 1903.

I am interested in research the following families from "Los Altos":

*Marquez*
*Martin del Campo*
*Rabago*

I can be reached at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/Marinero

I look forward to learning more about my Mexican families.

Regards,
Justin Martin

.

Comentario

Welcome, Primo. I descend from Lazaro Martin del Campo (~1654-1730, San
Juan de los Lagos, JA) by way of his daughter, Juana Maria Martin del Campo
de Hermosillo. Martin del Campo is one of the surnames included in Retonos
de Espana de la Nueva Galicia por Mariano Gonzalez-Leal. "Marques de los
Olivos" and Rabago are also surnames in this series. I recommend you
explore if your local library consortium, university or Hispanic genealogy
group has a copy of this series. I believe they are difficult and
expensive to obtain for purchase right now.

Raquel Ruiz
Portland, OR

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 3:36 PM, Jerry Martin
wrote:

> Good Evening,
>
> I would like to introduce myself as a new member to the Nuestros Ranchos
> genealogy group.
>
> My name is Justin Marquez Martin (Blanck mother's name). I am American born
> and first generation Mexican American whose mother was American..
>
> My father was born in Sam Miguel el Alto, Jalisco Mexico in April 1903.
>
> I am interested in research the following families from "Los Altos":
>
> *Marquez*
> *Martin del Campo*
> *Rabago*
>
> I can be reached at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/Marinero
>
> I look forward to learning more about my Mexican families.
>
> Regards,
> Justin Martin
>
> .

Comentario

Welcome Primos.

I too descend from Lazaro Martin del Campo's father Bartolome and brother Miguel who was born in 1630. Bartolome was the first one born in Mexico - San Juan de los Lagos. They originally came from Blaas in Revilla de Campo, Palencia, Spain who was born in 1520.

It's a small world!

-----Original Message-----
From: Raquel Ruiz
To: research
Sent: Sun, Mar 11, 2018 10:32 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction

Welcome, Primo. I descend from Lazaro Martin del Campo (~1654-1730, San
Juan de los Lagos, JA) by way of his daughter, Juana Maria Martin del Campo
de Hermosillo. Martin del Campo is one of the surnames included in Retonos
de Espana de la Nueva Galicia por Mariano Gonzalez-Leal. "Marques de los
Olivos" and Rabago are also surnames in this series. I recommend you
explore if your local library consortium, university or Hispanic genealogy
group has a copy of this series. I believe they are difficult and
expensive to obtain for purchase right now.

Raquel Ruiz
Portland, OR

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 3:36 PM, Jerry Martin
wrote:

> Good Evening,
>
> I would like to introduce myself as a new member to the Nuestros Ranchos
> genealogy group.
>
> My name is Justin Marquez Martin (Blanck mother's name). I am American born
> and first generation Mexican American whose mother was American..
>
> My father was born in Sam Miguel el Alto, Jalisco Mexico in April 1903.
>
> I am interested in research the following families from "Los Altos":
>
> *Marquez*
> *Martin del Campo*
> *Rabago*
>
> I can be reached at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/Marinero
>
> I look forward to learning more about my Mexican families.
>
> Regards,
> Justin Martin
>
> .

Comentario

Welcome to the group. Were you looking to find information or are stuck on
anyone specific?

Danny C. Alonso

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 3:36 PM Jerry Martin wrote:

> Good Evening,
>
> I would like to introduce myself as a new member to the Nuestros Ranchos
> genealogy group.
>
> My name is Justin Marquez Martin (Blanck mother's name). I am American born
> and first generation Mexican American whose mother was American..
>
> My father was born in Sam Miguel el Alto, Jalisco Mexico in April 1903.
>
> I am interested in research the following families from "Los Altos":
>
> *Marquez*
> *Martin del Campo*
> *Rabago*
>
> I can be reached at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/Marinero
>
> I look forward to learning more about my Mexican families.
>
> Regards,
> Justin Martin
>
> .

salvador ramires families researches

Published by stephmartinez316 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

tryingto find earlier records for salvador ramires or ramirez who had married a woman by the name of pasquala melendes . family search has marriage record 06 February 1681 • San Francisco,Villa De Reyes,San Luis Potosi,Mexico .. their daughter known as rita franca ramires married nicolas de la rosa and had several children including my maria bernarda de jesus de la rosa and places them in or around san luis potosi mexico where can i go or whom i can talk to about the earlier records for these family as i have hit some brick walls and would like to know more about their histories? i have attached the film number in family search records as follows: Film Number 004806532 or is there any books or anything of the relevance i can buy?

Comentarios

Comentario

Since the couple married in 1681 and the marriage records begin in 1635 you might find the parents marriage record. They were from the Hacienda de Joan Muniz. However, the names are difficult to read.

The Bautimos start 1639 so you might find some other records for the family but it would be image by image. I don't think these records have been indexed as I had to go through many of the records to find my ancestors as they were not indexed 2 years ago.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GGGS-NF3

Comentario

This is a difficult area to research. I have ancestors that married there before 1687 and because the informacion matrimonial isn't available im not sure theres a way to go back any further.

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Hola a todos:

En el libro partidos y padrones del obispado de Michoacán de Alberto Carrillo Cázares viene el censo de pobladores de Villa de Reyes.

Sería interesante buscar en los antepasados en las familias de Querétaro, ya que varias ramas de la familia Ramírez de Coy pasaron a otros estados, es posible que se trate de ésta familia porque era muy común casarse entre primos y para hacerlo modificaban los nombres, parte de la familia cambiaba el apellido Ramírez por Roxas, Rojas o Rossas. Hay un Francisco Ramírez nacido a principios del siglo XVII hijo de Juan Ramírez de Coy y de María de Espíndola, vecinos de Querétaro.

Saludos

Marcelina

Comentario

salvador ramires parents is looking to be francisco ramirez and or maria cesillia de paneto

"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NT8P-HJF : 12 December 2014), Santiago Martines Melendes, 10 Jul 1713; citing SAN FRANCISCO,VILLA DE REYES,SAN LUIS POTOSI,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 708,51

pasquala melendes parents may be michaela de la cruz and or leandro melendes time frame for the parents of pasqual is about 1649 roughly. nothing found after that

Information on Diego Villalpando y Gertrudis Rodriguez

Published by robros12 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hello Everyone!

Comentarios

Comentario

Roberto

I did some research on the descendants of Tomas de Villalpando a few years ago, and posted the results in the members’ files area of NR. Go there, click on my name, and you can download the report. The research was not exhaustive, but may be of help.

George Fulton

Comentario

Hi Roberto,
This couple is my 5x great grandparents, by way of Jesus's brother Ygnacio.
If you're on 23andme or ancestry, let me know.

David

Alonso de Llerena Agúndez

Published by Salvador94 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hola compañeros:

Después de mucho tiempo de ausentarme de este grupo estoy de regreso, al menos durante las vacaciones y quiero desearles a todos un muy feliz verano.

Comentarios

Monte de los Velascos, Nochistlán, Velasco, Zevallos de la Barrera

Published by Carlos_Salgado –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hi, I'm looking for information on a place (a rancho?) called Monte de los Velascos in the late 1700's Jurisdicción of Nochistlán.

Comentarios

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Mar, 2017-03-21 19:23 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Dear Carlos,

These records may help you in your research:

The padrinos of this first baptism may provide clues as to Maria Micaela's ancestry

Name Ma. Calistra De Jesus Barrera Velasco
Gender Female
Christening Date 23 Sep 1820
Christening Place TONILA,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Manl. Barrera
Mother's Name Ma. Micaela Velasco
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JMCT-FR4 : 2 January 2015), Ma. Micaela Velasco in entry for Ma. Calistra De Jesus Barrera Velasco, 23 Sep 1820; citing TONILA,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ;

FHL microfilm 694,724.IMAGE 167 out of 680; Right page, Bottom half.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-73TQ-R?mode=g&i=166&wc=3JF…

Name Jose Mateo Ceballos
Event Type Baptism
Event Date 25 Sep 1858
Event Place Santiago Apóstol, Pihuamo, Jalisco, Mexico
Gender Male
Birthplace Santa Cruz
Father's Name Salvador Ceballos
Mother's Name Eulogia Berdusco
Paternal Grandfather's Name Manuel Ceballos
Paternal Grandmother's Name Miquela Velasco
Maternal Grandfather's Name Dionisio Berdusco
Maternal Grandmother's Name Eduvigis Cuebas
Citing this Record
México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-1979, database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK72-G6QT : 16 February 2017), Miquela Velasco in entry for Jose Mateo Ceballos, 25 Sep 1858; citing Baptism, Santiago Apóstol, Pihuamo, Jalisco, Mexico, parroquias Católicas Jalisco (Catholic Church parishes, Jalisco); FHL microfilm 655,538

Name Jose Leonides Seballos
Event Type Baptism
Event Date 09 Aug 1856
Event Place Santiago Apóstol, Pihuamo, Jalisco, Mexico
Gender Male
Birthplace Santa Cruz
Father's Name Salvador Seballos
Mother's Name Eulogia Verdusco
Paternal Grandfather's Name Manuel Seballos
Paternal Grandmother's Name Micaela Velasco
Maternal Grandfather's Name Dionicio Verdusco
Maternal Grandmother's Name Edubige Cuevaz
Citing this Record
México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-1979, database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK72-GJN1 : 16 February 2017), Micaela Velasco in entry for Jose Leonides Seballos, 09 Aug 1856; citing Baptism, Santiago Apóstol, Pihuamo, Jalisco, Mexico, parroquias Católicas Jalisco (Catholic Church parishes, Jalisco); FHL microfilm 655,538.

Rick A. Ricci

Don Diego Rangel Peguero en Guanajuato

Published by Marcelina Macias –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hola a todos:

Como muchos de ustedes también desciendo de Don Diego Rangel Peguero, aunque he visto varios temas de discusión se refieren a la descendencia que dejó en Aguascalientes.

Suscribirse a