Dr.mt

The mtDNA of Josefa Diaz marrried with Miguel Diaz Montañez

Published by robros12 –
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Genealogy Research

Hey all,  

It has been some time since I have posted. I recently asked a granddaughter of my great-great grandfather Antonio Lopez’s sister who is direct living female descendant of Josefa Diaz and Miguel Diaz Montanez (son of Juan Montanez and Sebastiana Diez).  

A bit of background, according to a tree online, Josefa Diaz and Miguel Diaz Montanez wed on April 7, 1641, en Pinos, Zac, Reino de Nueva Galicia. I do not think I have their marriage document. Perhaps her parents are shown on their marriage doc? 

Josefa Diaz is of significant importance to me because not only do I descend from her on this line, but I am also a descendant of her on eleven other lines.  

To this day I have not found a primary source that shows who her parents are. Armando Antunano, Sanchiz Family Tree and Family Search Tree has her as daughter of Juan Diaz de la Huerta and Isabel Martin de Sotomayor. This would make Josefa Diaz granddaughter of Maria de las Ruelas. I am wondering how this was concluded. Or if

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Maternal Link to Josefa Diaz (73.19 KB)
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Comentarios

Comentario

Hola Roberto,

I already shared this information with you via texting, but I thought I’d also share it with the group.

The marriage and veiling records of Miguel Díaz Montanés and Josefa Díaz do not name their parents, though both ceremonies took place on Juan Montanés’ paraje de Los Ojuelos, and he was named as a witness of the veiling.

There are two dispensas that reveal that Josefa Díaz was the daughter of Isabel Marín de las Ruelas:

1. Andrés Martín de Sotomayor y Mayorga cc Juana Cayetana de Villalobos:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-66SD-QN?i=338&cc=18745…

They were at 4º con 3º grado consanguinidad, the relationship looking like this:

Tronco: Andrés Martín Barriga cc María de las Ruelas
Isabel Marín-1-Andrés Martín Camacho
Josefa Díaz-2-Andrés Martín
Ángela Díaz-3-Andrés Martín
Juana Cayetana Villalobos-4-

2. Nicolás Gómez García cc Catalina de Rubalcava: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-X4NK-N?cc=1874591&wc=3…

They were at 3º con 4º grado consanguinidad. Unfortunately, it doesn’t explain the relationship, other than “the father of the groom was 1st-cousin of the grandmother of the bride,” but from other records, we know that the relationship looked like this:

Tronco: Andrés Martín Barriga cc María de las Ruelas
Agustina de las Ruelas-1-Isabel Marín de las Ruelas
Antonio Gómez García-2-Josefa Díaz
Nicolás Gómez García-3-Petra Díaz
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 4-Catalina de Rubalcava

Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

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Book about Fernandez de Hijar y Bracamonte

Published by makas_nc –
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Genealogy Research

just FYI:

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Jalisco, Zacatecas y/o Aguascalientes ????
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 18:29:37 -0500
From: bobby jim

Comentarios

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Dom, 2009-10-18 21:00 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

I was working on a book on the hijar family that I have to put aside due to family health issues . I would like to find a copy of this book. If this book has the same data that I have then I can work on the other two articles I am also working on. I am sorry that I have not partiPated much these past few months but look forward to finishing at least couple articles in 2010. Rick
------Original Message------
From: Joseph Puentes
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Book about Fernandez de Hijar y Bracamonte
Sent: Oct 18, 2009 7:26 PM

just FYI:

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Jalisco, Zacatecas y/o Aguascalientes ????
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 18:29:37 -0500
From: bobby jim
To: Joseph Puentes
References: <4ADB3AB5.1070009@nc.rr.com>

Pues gracias por avisarme. Lamento no poder 'cuajar' con su grupo.

Pues sí, los hermanos Fernandez de Híjar nacieron en Epila, Aragón,
España, pero al llegar a la Nueva España, se ubicaron en Compostela, y
de allí venimos todos los hijaranos en México.
Toditítos.

Le recomiendo un libro (si lo puede encontrar):

De Jesus Amaya: 'Los conquistadores Fernandez de Hijar y Bracamonte'
Edición del estado de Jalisco. 1952. comenzando en la página 93.

Saludos, Roberto Híjar y Frías

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Puentes"
To:
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 10:56
Subject: Jalisco, Zacatecas y/o Aguascalientes ????

> Si sus antepasados no son de Jalisco, Zacatecas y/o Aguascalientes el
> grupo nuestrosranchos.org no es para usted.
>
> joseph
>
> ======================
>
> Joseph Puentes
> NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
> http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
> http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
> http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
> http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
> http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
> http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

Comentario

here is some info on the book including various libraries that own it:

Libraries with Item: "Los conquistadores Fernán..."( Record for Item |
Get This Item )
Location Library Code
US,AZ ARIZONA STATE UNIV AZS
US,AZ UNIV OF ARIZONA AZU
US,CA UNIV OF CALIFORNIA, BERKELEY CUY
US,CA UNIV OF CALIFORNIA, LATIN AM COL RQA
US,CA UNIV OF CALIFORNIA, RIVERSIDE CRU
US,CA UNIV OF CALIFORNIA, S REG LIBR FAC ZAS
US,CT YALE UNIV LIBR YUS
US,CT YALE UNIV, LATIN AM PROJ RQP
US,DC WASHINGTON THEOL UNION WT3
US,GA UNIV OF GEORGIA GUA
US,IL NEWBERRY LIBR IBV
US,LA TULANE UNIV LRU
US,LA TULANE UNIV, LATIN AM ARL RECON RQH
US,MI UNIV OF MICHIGAN LIBR EYM
US,NY NEW YORK PUB LIBR RES LIBR NYP
US,TX TEXAS TECH UNIV ILU
US,TX UNIV OF TEXAS AT AUSTIN IXA
US,VA UNIV OF VIRGINIA VA@
US,WI UNIV OF WISCONSIN, MADISON, GEN LIBR SYS GZM
France BIBLIOTHEQUE DU MUSEE DE L'HOMME FBH
France BIBLIOTHEQUE DU MUSEE DE L'HOMME-RCON ZT5
US,MI UNIV OF MICHIGAN LIBR EYM
Japan WASEDA UNIV LIBR LWU
Mexico EL COLEGIO DE MEXICO EL$
Germany IBERO-AMERIKANISCHES INST DEIAI
US,LA TULANE UNIV LRU

Record for Item: "Los conquistadores Fernán..."( Libraries with Item )
Get This Item
# Availability: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries
worldwide that own item: 21
# External Resources: Link to external web site Cite This Item
Find Related
More Like This: Search for versions with same title and author |
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Title: Los conquistadores Fernández Híjar y Bracamonte,
Author(s): Amaya Topete, Jesús, b. 1889.
Publication: Guadalajara, Méx.,
Edition: [Ed. del Gobierna del Estado].
Year: 1952
Description: 171 p. 24 cm.
Language: Spanish
Standard No: LCCN: 54-28250
SUBJECT(S)
Named Person: Fernández de Híjar, Juan, ca. 1507-ca. 1587.
Bracamonte, Alvaro de, 16th century.
Geographic: Mexico -- Genealogy.
Class Descriptors: LC: F1231.B7
Responsibility: ensayo bio-geneográfico.
Material Type: Government publication (gpb); State or province
government publication (sgp)
Document Type: Book
Entry: 19780908
Update: 20090404
Accession No: OCLC: 4206853
Database: WorldCat

mygenes2000@yahoo.com wrote:
> I was working on a book on the hijar family that I have to put aside
due to family health issues . I would like to find a copy of this
book. If this book has the same data that I have then I can work on the
other two articles I am also working on. I am sorry that I have not
partiPated much these past few months but look forward to finishing at
least couple articles in 2010. Rick
> ------Original Message------
> From: Joseph Puentes
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Book about Fernandez de Hijar y Bracamonte
> Sent: Oct 18, 2009 7:26 PM
>
> just FYI:
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Jalisco, Zacatecas y/o Aguascalientes ????
> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 18:29:37 -0500
> From: bobby jim
> To: Joseph Puentes
> References: <4ADB3AB5.1070009@nc.rr.com>
>
>
> Pues gracias por avisarme. Lamento no poder 'cuajar' con su grupo.
>
> Pues sí, los hermanos Fernandez de Híjar nacieron en Epila, Aragón,
> España, pero al llegar a la Nueva España, se ubicaron en Compostela, y
> de allí venimos todos los hijaranos en México.
> Toditítos.
>
> Le recomiendo un libro (si lo puede encontrar):
>
> De Jesus Amaya: 'Los conquistadores Fernandez de Hijar y Bracamonte'
> Edición del estado de Jalisco. 1952. comenzando en la página 93.
>
> Saludos, Roberto Híjar y Frías
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joseph Puentes"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 10:56
> Subject: Jalisco, Zacatecas y/o Aguascalientes ????
>
> > Si sus antepasados no son de Jalisco, Zacatecas y/o Aguascalientes el
> > grupo nuestrosranchos.org no es para usted.
> >
> > joseph
> >
> > ======================
> >
> > Joseph Puentes
> > NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
> > http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions
Podcast)
> > http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
> > http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
> > http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
> > http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
> > http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
> Genealogy)

Comentario

Dear Amalia,

Some of the information that is out there on the Internet and in some books is not true. Because of the misguided information, it is important for me explain and cite with sources the actual family tree.

I put aside my research and book on the Fernandez de Hijar family as I became deeply involved in other research and another book tha t am writing. This other book actually brought me back to the Fernandez de Hijar family research and I have again been researching the Fernandez de Hijar family for the past year. I have found much new information so the book isn't anywhere near being ready for publication, especially since it will ruffle a few feathers. This book now will contain information that I had been researching for two other books. The Fernandez de Hijar family research became connected to my Lomelini family research and also to another book that I was writing on the ethnicities of my ancestors.

I find myself very busy at work in a new position so I have to set aside my research for a while. Hopefully I can get back to my research and writing soon, but it doesn't look like it. I will let you know when the book finally comes out. I am hesitant to give out snapshots of this research since it would be disregarded as statements without sources when it takes a book to explain the connections, the sources, and why these sources are believable.

Thanks for the interest,
Rick A Ricci

Benavides/Cortes/Aguayo Revisited & Revised (My Two Cents)

Published by The Genealogist –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hello everyone,

This thread is intended to be a continuation of two earlier threads regarding the Benavides trunk started by Manny and Ronnie as seen here:

Comentarios

Comentario

I have my ancestor as:

I. Juan Moscoso y Sandoval married to Catalina Cortez

a.Their daughter is Josefa de Moscoso y Sandoval m. to Juan Lozano.
1.Their daughter is Maria Lozano m. to Geronimo Carrillo.

My question is what number is my Catalina Cortez and who are her parents?
I am so confused I am sorry I had trouble following this tangle of Catalina Cortes names I II and III.

Comentario

You are in a tough situation. A Spanish and indigenous parent can be very hard to find ancestors for. I would suggest building out the family tree as much as you can for Bartola and Pedro, then hope you can find a dispensa pertaining to their descendants. Hopefully it will run up Bartola's father's side and you can figure something out that way.

Comentario

These lines are well researched and the Lomellini family go back to the Doges of Genoa and the others back to Hernan Cortez  and other nobility. Apart from another branch further back from Moctezuma there are no identified Indians. The Moctezuma Imperial family are also well mapped out back to the Grimaldi family as well as many of us with ancestry from the Spanish in Mexico. Moctezuma's line descends through his daughters and their marriages to other Spanish nobility which continued for centuries in Mexico. 

I was trying to review the research about our connection to the Lomellini family as the Benavides line is so confusing then you threw that there was an indigenous person I'm like, what? lol

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

Hi, I'm interested in the Aguayo family mostly located in the Rancho Aguayo in Nochistlan. I have an Excel file of all the Aguayo records I can find... baptisms, marriages, burials. In it I find Regina Aguayo having children with Domingo Mejia: Juana Mejia Aguayo, 3 Mar 1630; and Ysavel Mejia Aguayo, 17 Aug 1692, born in Nochistlan, Zacatecas.

I am happy to send a copy of my excel file to anyone who is interested.

There also is a book, "Genealogia De Nochistlan Antigua Reino De Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII segun sus Archivos Parroquiales" that give the early history of many Nochistlan families. Chapters 22, 24, 56 and 57 discuss the Benevides families.

I'll try to attach to this a chart from the book showing the relationships discussed in your message. Fooey. That didn't work. If you'd like the copy, please send me an email. Ed Nissen

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Vie, 2017-05-12 23:10 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

I have the marriage records of another pair of brothers married to another pair of sisters. The sisters are Catharina De la Paz y Cortez and Francisca De la Paz y Cortez. The brothers are Manuel Antonio Perez Franco de Paredes and Joseph Joachin Perez Franco de Paredes.

Manuel Antonio Perez Franco married Catharina de La Paz y Cortez, and Joseph Joachin Perez Franco married Francisca De La Paz y Cortez.

Both couples married on the same day, on the fifth of June in 1737. The brides are the daughters of Antonio De La Paz y Cortez and Antonia Frias de Ybarra.

The brother's father's surname is Perez Franco but I am unsure of the first name. I am hoping that someone will do a better job of reading his first name than I did.

Here is the link to the marriage records: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XYQT?mode=g&i=380&wc=3J4P-…

I believe that Antonio de La Paz y Cortez descends from the Geronima Benavides/Cortez and Paez lines.

The brothers and the sisters are related through "tercer con quarto grado " so there should be a dispensation for both marriages. Since sometimes these records are difficult to read, we are fortunate that there are two marriage dispensations that provide the same lines of descent.

Thank You,
Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Another piece to the Benavides/Cortes puzzle:

This is the PROCESO CONTRA FRANCISCO DE VEAS (or “Beas”), the vicar of Nochistlan. He was accused of soliciting sex from women during confession, and abuses against Indians. He was predator scum, and it’s a hard read, so be forewarned. There are 160 pages, and lots of testigos.

This is from 1570, so these are early residents of Nochistlan, several whom I’ve never heard of. But the Benavides do make an appearance: there is mention of the “Estancia de los Benavides,” and Luis de Benavides is present during some of the interviews, as is Maria de Benavides (his sister? his daughter? his niece?). One of the testigos is his wife, ANDREA CORTES (interviewed 25 Aug 1570 at the posada de Juan Perez de Piña). I suppose she would be the mother of Geronima de Benavides cc Gonzalo Yañez del Monte? She is said to look about 30 years-old, so she was born around 1540. My guess is, she’s probably another daughter of Pedro Cortes, and sister of Catalina Cortes cc Geronimo de Benavides - another case of brothers marrying sisters?

Other names that appear are: Simon Garcia cc Clara de Maya, Pedro Ballexo, Diego Garcia de Saldaña, Diego de Ribera, Juan Vasquez (notario del dho Francisco de Veas), Antonio de Yslas. There are 2 sisters: Juana de Coca 24 cc Juan Alvarez, and
Catalina de Ortiz 18 cc Gonzalo Hernandez (all 4 give statements). Many of the testigos are Indios. Some of these interviews take place in the pueblo de Contla “que esta encomendado en Pedro Plasencia vecino de la Ciudad de Guadalajara.” It’s a long read, and there’s more.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Oh boy Manny that is exciting. I feel like we are all on the same brick walls in Nochistlan and this is the first lead in a while!

There is an early Benavides line (would be early 1600's late 1500's) in Guadalajara. No clue as to if there is a connection to Nochistlan Benavides.

Heres a will for Juan Benavides in Guadalajara. He is the son of a Luis Benavides

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-8R1Y?cat=198356

Comentario

What I take from the will is that this Juan de Benavides was the leigitimate son of a Luis de Benavides and a María Jorge, or Ortíz, or Cortés; that he was married to María de Ávila, daughter of Juan Domínguez.

He says that they had three daughters:

Luisa, Juana (4 years old) and Jacinta (2 years old)

He says tha he has a cousin named Gerónimo de Benavides.

The will is dated 20-march-1634

Comentario

​Hi Alex,

I'm not sure, I'm still playing with this idea, that the 3 siblings spoken of in the Gaspar Lomelin/Maria Medinilla dispensa are children of Diego de Benavides, rather than Geronimo de Benavides cc Catalina Cortes. Following this formula, Catalina Cortes cc Juan Moscoso Sandoval is daughter of Geronima de Benavides, and sister of Mariana Ortiz. This would imply that she also married someone surnamed "Cortes." There just aren't enough pieces of the puzzle to make it work yet.

As for Juan de Sandoval's testamento - his mother's name looks like Maria Jorje. What's interesting, is that they are also from Mezticacan, so there is a link!

Great work!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

The will is extremely hard to read; however, I actually believe it says "g.ma de venavides mi prima" who I think it says is in "mesticacan". Left side 6th - 11th lines from the bottom.

I also see as children Luisa de ojo (8?) anos? (this doesnt say Aguayo does it??) Ana 4 years old and Jacinta 2 years old. the tail end of "procreamos por ntros hijos legitimos" and "Luisa" has some words in it that I cant read, right side lines 9 - 13. Please tell me what you guys think.

I do see the 1634 date at the bottom there, but this is the 1638 book. Also Juan Benavides and Maria d'Avila had Ana in 1634 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N23Z-4W5 and Jacinta in 1636 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NB7G-1F6 so I think the entry occured in 1638. They also had a child, Juana on 1 Jun 1615 who doesnt appear in the will. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-2LS6-LS?i=75&wc=3J64-B…

Juan was therefore probably born between 1580 - 1590. This would put Luis Benavides and Maria Jorge births probably between 1550-1570.

Juan died 20 March 1638 in Guadalajara "era casado y con hijos".

THE FACTS END HERE IN THIS POST. Just fun speculation ahead

From here forward, assume the genealogy I posted a few posts back:

Pretending that Geronima de Benavides, his prima from the will, is Geronima Benavides cc. ?? Paez, this could place Juan as a sibling of Geronima Benavides cc Gonzalo Yanez and the unknown Benavides who had Maria Benavides cc Andres Cuevas. Maybe the unknown is Juan, maybe it isn't. It would be strange for it to be Juan because Maria Benavides was not named in the will. According to my previously posted genealogy the father of this proposed trio is in fact a Luis Benavides. Could their parents be Luis Benavides and Maria Jorge?

What I find interesting in all this is that the trio would all have descendants named Jacinta all coming from a Luis Benavides. If this proposed genealogy is correct then who are Luis Benavides and Andrea Cortes? They appear to be contemporaries. Are the Luis' one and the same revealing a second marriage? Also, could it be possible that Geronimo Benavides and Catalina Cortes are actually Luis Benavides and Andrea Cortes? I don't know but it was a fun thought experiment!

Comentario

Great work, Carlos and Alex.

​In his testamento Juan de Benavides says: “Iten - I declare that I owe Geronima de Benavides, my cousin, 50 pesos. I order that, to repay her, some of the lands that I have in Mesticacan, be sold..."

So, we know that Juan de Benavides had a cousin named Geronima de Benavides, and that he owned land in Mexticacan, which he likely inherited from his father, Luis de Benavides cc Maria Jorge.

​Yesterday, I found this, dated 28 Oct 1669:

Luisa de Benavides, Ana de Avila (viuda de Juan de Siordia), and Jasinta de Avila, hermanas hijas y herederas de Juan de Benavides y Maria de Avila difuntos, all who are over the age of 25, wish to sell to Cristobal de Caravajal, vecino de Tacotlan, “la quinta parte de dos caballerias de tierra en Tacotlan, donde vivia Andres de Cueba, junto a un arbol de sauz junto a otros mesquites como se va al pueblo de Mesticacan por orillas del Rio…,” for the amount of 60 pesos.

They’re selling 1/5th of 2 caballerias of land, where Andres de Cueba lived. Since they’re named as his heirs in the bill of sale, the girls inherited this land from their father. This links their father, Juan de Benavides, to Andres de Cuevas, and therefore, to Maria de Benavides - as you suggested, Alex. Good call! So, Juan de Benavides and Maria de Benavides could be siblings, children of Luis de Benavides cc Maria Jorge, though their births were far apart, with Juan in early 1590’s, and Maria closer to 1620, but it’s doable. ​

Gonzalez-Leal had Diego de Benavides born around 1510, and​ says​ that he had at least 2 sons: Geronimo de Benavides, born around 1540, married to Catalina Cortes, and Luis de Benavides, born around 1545, who had offspring. I think the Luis de Benavides cc Andrea Cortes who appear in the 1570 proceso is the son of Diego de Benavides​, and that they are parents of Geronima de Benavides cc Gonzalo Yañez, and of the unknown parent of Maria de Benavides cc Andres de Cuevas.

Juan de Benavides cc Maria de Avila baptized Ana in 1615, so he could’ve been born as late as 1595, and his father, Luis de Benavides “II” cc Maria Jorge, as late as 1575. I think it’s possible that Luis de Benavides II is son of Luis de Benavides “I” cc Andrea Cortes. ​Therefore, t​he children of Luis de Benavides and Andrea Cortes ​could be​:
I. Geronima de Benavides cc Gonzalo Yañez
II. Luis de Benavides cc Maria Jorge
III. Unknown parent of Maria de Benavides cc Andres de Cuevas​*​

​* It's possible Luis de Benavides cc Maria Jorge are the parents of Maria de Benavides.

Speculation, speculation!
Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo​

Comentario

Very cool, you're killin it Manny! I'm very interested to see where this leads.

Ever since your post I've gone down the Benavides rabbit hole, hoping to attack the genealogy from many angles. I've recently been compiling data regarding Diego Benavides c. Juana Delgado. What data do you guys have on this couple. I have a couple conflicting dispensas that seem to force their daughters Maria de Aceves and Felipa de Benavides-Delgado as being the same person but vital records search seems to suggest the opposite. Curious is the use of Aceves by a daughter of Diego and Juana. I also haven't found a use of Cortes yet but I'm still digging!

I should throw in the Luis Benavides mix a document, probably regarding a generation or later with regard to the Luis' of this post. Bottom right page

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XW3Q-MC?i=290&wc=12512…

Comentario

Alright, here's another. This one fills in at least one hole, and includes one big name. It's dated 4 Nov 1623, in Mexticacan: Mariana Ortiz, viuda heredera y albasea de Alonso Gomez Garay, difunto, and her son, Geronimo Gonzalez Garay (aka Aramburu). This Mariana Ortiz would be the same mentioned in the Gaspar Lomelin/Maria Medinilla dispensa, and who was daughter of Geronima de Benavides. Now we have the name of her husband, Alonso Gomez Garay. Presiding over this proceso is none other that CARLOS LOMELLINI, whose title I can't make out, but who is probably "teniente de alcalde mayor por su majestad." Escribano nombrado is Luis de Benavides. Also mentioned is Pedro de Medinilla (who might be the origin of this surname in Mexticacan), and witnesses present were Cristobal Serrano, Juan Rodriguez and Diego de Benavides.

​Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Great work Manny, and all that have contributed to this thread.
I descend from many of these people mentioned in this thread.

Thanks again,
Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

DUDE! Manny your a magician, making documents appear from thin air! I see the title for Carlos Lomelin "teniente de alcalde mayor en el dicho puesto"

Pedro Medinilla certainly seems connected. For Diego Arambulo c. Mariana Yanez-Medinilla, she uses the surname "Alvarado" sometimes. In your document, Pedro goes by Pedro Medinilla Alvarado on the first page.

Furthermore, Geronimo signs the document "Geronimo Gonzalez y Aramburu"

HOME RUN!

Comentario

Hi Alex,
I'm pretty sure you and I have visited this transcription in the past, it's of the visit made by Davalos y Toledo through the various parishes in NG, in Oct 1616. During his stop in Mestiticacan, two of the witnesses are Luis de Benavides and Alonso Gomez Garay. There is no genealogical information given, but at least there's an approximation of Alonso Gomez's age (about 50/ ca 1566). I think this Luis Benavides might be the one married to Maria Jorge?
http://books.openedition.org/cemca/1599?lang=en
Chao,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

IIs this Felipa Benavides or Delgado cc Diego de Pereira a sister of the Maria de Benavides cc Diego de Banuelos having children in Teul in the 1650s? Felipa appears as
one of the padrinos a couple of times on the baptisms of their children.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-6439-JY?i=6&cc=1804458
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-6433-9Y?i=32&cc=1804458

Maria de Banuelos cc Nicolas Sanchez Castellanos has a Diego de Benavides listed as her grandfather on her baptism record. If Felipa is Maria de Benavides sister I'm glad to (presumably) have the name of their mother.

~ Andrea

Comentario

Hi Andrea,

I am interested in anything you have for the Diego Benavides/Juana Delgado family.

I have them as having at least 5 kids. Luis (probably married to Maria Perez Infante Sepulveda), Maria de Benavides (married to Diego Banuelos), Felipa Benavides Delgado, Maria de Aceves (married to Juan Carrillo), and Juana Delgado (married to Juan Rodriguez de Frias). I think there may be an additional sibling Joseph, married to 1) Maria Gonzalez 2) Juana Ortiz Bustos.

I have not been able to connect Felipa Benavides Delgado cc Diego de Pereira. I have only one document pertaining to her and it states she has a child with the last name Carrillo. I don't know if its an error, confusing Felipa and Maria, or if she married a Carrillo.

Comentario

There's another son Nicolas married to an Ana de Santiago 20 Jul 1659 in Tlaltenango. Right side, second from the bottom
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-BRBD-J?i=274&wc=3PS7-7…

This baptism record for a son Luis is all I've got for Felipa, and the ones above where she appears as a godparent.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-643S-XG?i=26&cc=1804458

I was missing Maria de Aceves. Thanks! And I hadn't seen a Joseph.

I have Maria de Benavides cc Diego de Banuelos born about 1620 and dying sometime between 1661-1677. Looks like her husband remarried to an Ysabel Gonzalez Delgado (or Delgado Gonzalez) in the early 1660s. If he's the same Diego Banuelos, he may also have had an illegitimate child with an Ysabel de Salazar named Baltazar Onate y Banuelos. If they're the same Diego, then that's a pretty big clue to his lineage.

I have Diego de Benavides still alive as of 11 Nov 1652
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-6439-J1?i=25&cc=1804458

I think that's about it.

~ Andrea

Comentario

Andrea,

Thank you so much for sharing what you have. I'll add it to mine and see if anything shakes out. I did some research last night and found some more stuff too. Here's what I have:

Felipa appears in dispensas 1418 and 2015 in Maria Luz Montejano's Sagrada Mitra ...

2015 is the only mention of Pereira. This dispensa is a mess and contradicts other information that I have found.

Here are more dispensas which help fill out/confirm the trees:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XWS6-H5?i=171&wc=11124…

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6Y8L-2?i=748&wc=111241…

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XHSS-1X?i=404&wc=12512…

I think these are relevant but I haven't looked hard enough at them yet:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-65J1-R?i=560&wc=125127…

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6T97-JT?i=551&wc=12512…

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XH9M-B3?i=155&wc=12512…

And here is a copy-paste of my notes:

Antonia Benavides daughter of Diego de Banuelos and Maria Benavides, Juana Delgado su tia muger de Juan Rodriguez marrying Diego Lopez viudo de Catalina Yepez, “Juan Rodriguez … Antonia Benavides su sobrina por parte de Juana Delgado, su muger”
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-TH59-J?i=46&cc=1804458

Sebastian de la Cruz Bermejo married Maria Delgado h. unknown parents
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-T4SS-SD?i=290&wc=3P9N-…

Maria de Benavides viuda of Sebastian Gonzalez Bermejo
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-THR1-D?i=453&cc=1804458

Joseph h.l. Diego Banuelos and Maria Benavides P. Benito Gonzalez and Felipa Benavides
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-6439-JY?i=6&wc=3PSK-N3…

Pedro h.l. Diego Banuelos and Maria de Benavides P. Tomas de Velasco espanol vecino de tlaltenango
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-6439-59?i=11&wc=3PSK-N…

Maria h.l. Diego Banuelos and Maria Benavides P. Diego de Benavides su abuelo and Felipa Delgado
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-6439-J1?i=25&wc=3PSK-N…

Antonia Lopez espanola viuda de Diego Banuelos
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-6439-42?i=29&wc=3PSK-N…

Padrino Diego Banuelos
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-6439-8M?i=31&wc=3PSK-N…

Diego h.l. Diego Banuelos and Maria de Benavides P. Benito Gonzalez and Felipa Delgado
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-6433-9Y?i=32&wc=3PSK-N…

Padrinos Diego Banuelos and Maria de Benavides
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-6439-JY?i=6&wc=3PSK-N3…

Padrinos Diego Banuelos and Maria de Benavides
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-643S-WX?i=14&wc=3PSK-N…

Antonia hija de la iglesia P. Diego Banuelos y su esposa Maria de Benavides
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-6439-VM?i=16&wc=3PSK-N…

Padrinos Diego Banuelos and Maria de Benavides
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-643S-WF?i=18&wc=3PSK-N…

Padrinos Diego Banuelos and Maria de Benavides
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-6439-22?i=23&wc=3PSK-N…

Padrinos Diego de Banuelos and Juana de Renteria
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-6439-5S?i=24&wc=3PSK-N…

Padrinos Diego de Banuelos and Maria de Benavides espanoles
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-6439-J1?i=25&wc=3PSK-N…

Luis espanol h. Diego de Pereira and Felipa Delgado P. Diego de Banuelos?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-643S-XG?i=26&wc=3PSK-N…

Pedro Banuelos widow of Mariana de Santiago is the relative of Luis Benavides, Pedro and Luis are children of two sisters
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XW3Q-MC?i=290&wc=12512…

Juana Delgado widow of Diego de Benavides
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-TTJD?i=74&wc=3P9K-T38%…

Baptism Diego son of Diego Pereira and Felipa Padrinos Diego Banuelos, cut-off
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-6439-8M?i=31&wc=3PSK-N…

Also you can look at my tree on Ancestry.com. My username is 245luigi. If you click on individuals, I have sources listed. I'm sure there are some in there that I haven't posted.

Alex

Comentario

Alex

You've just helped me immensely by giving me the marriage dispensation for Pedro Banuelos and Bartola Flores (de la Torre.) These two are also my ancestors on my Gonzalez de Islas line, so I've been looking for that. I will check out the rest of these records and see what happens. Thank you so much.

~ Andrea

Comentario

Hi Andrea, I am new here... trying to figure out how this works :) I have also as my ancestors Bartola Flores de la Torre and Pedro Bañuelos. I found their marriage and dispensation, and saw that Bartola´s parents were Hernan Flores de la Torre and Maria Magdalena (indigena woman)... I am not sure which Hernán Flores de la Torre is this... I though it was Hernan Flores de la Torre y de Sandi... but I am not sure... do you have any other document or information regarding this?

Laura

Comentario

Hi Alex,
I have in my tree Barthola Flores de la Torre and Pedro Bañuelos too, according to their marriage dispense she was the daughter of an indigenous woman named Maria Magdalena and of Hernan Flores de la Torre... I cannot find any other document to confirm which Hernan Flores de la Torre it is... or who are her grandparents... I think she was from Mezquituta but I have not been able to find any information ...
Do you have any information regarding this or idea where I could find it?

Thank you!

Comentario

About 1661 Diego Bañuelos and Maria Benavides were godfather of a child but in 1663 Diego Bañuelos and Ysabel Gonzalez were godfather of a child and in 1665 baptized a Francisco Bañuelos Gonzalez , so Maria Benabides died about 1662.

There were two differents Diego Bañuelos one in Zacatecas the other El Teul, Zacatecas

Ysabel de Salazar and Diego Bañuelos lived in Zacatecas and have illegitimate sons as Baltazar and Bartolome (married August 12th,1680 Tlaltenango).

Ysabel Delgado and Diego Bañuelos (widowed of Maria Benavides) had legitimate sons as Antonio and Francisco.

Comentario

Hi Alex,

Thanks for the Juan de Benavides will, I’ve been meaning to check that family out.

Regarding David’s proposal, this latest piece of the puzzle, that Luis de Benavides was married to Andrea Cortes, has stirred my coals a bit, and has changed what I thought about this thread, and what I’ve proposed in others.

First, it gives us an idea of when Luis de Benavides and Andrea Cortes lived, if she was born around 1540. From the timelines, I’d say they are the parents of Geronima de Benavides cc Gonzalo Yañez, and therefore, he was brother of Geronimo de Benavides, and she, likely a sister of his wife, Catalina Cortes. That’s still speculation, but given the small number of Spanish families/ eligible partners living in the area during those early years, I don’t think it’s that far off.

DISPENSA DE GASPAR LOMELIN cc MARIA MEDINILLA

All of this got me thinking, about how in some of these old documents, the word “hermano” was used for “cuñado.” With that in mind, I took a new look at the Gaspar Lomelin/ Maria Medinilla dispensa, which names Geronima Benavides, Luis Benavides, and Catalina Cortes, as “hermanos.” “Catalina Cortes” now stands out like a sore thumb: we know that she was married to Geronimo Benavides, who we know is the brother of Luis de Benavides, and therefore, of Geronima de Benavides, and whose name should appear in this genealogy:

Geronima Benavides-1-Luis Benavides-1-Geronimo Benavides
Mariana Ortiz-2-Geronima Benavides-2-Maria Benavides
Geronimo Aramburu-3-Jacinta Oliva-3-Lucas Lomelin
Diego Aramburu-4-Nicolas Carvajal-4-Gaspar Lomelin
Maria Medinilla-5

That makes a whole lot more sense to me, everything falls neatly into place. With this genealogy, the children of Diego de Benavides cc N.N. are:

a. Luis de Benavides cc Andrea Cortes (parents of Geronima de Benavides cc Gonzalo Yañez..
b. Geronimo de Benavides cc Catalina Cortes I (parents of Maria de Benavides cc Carlos Lomellini; Geronima de Benavides cc Francisco Paez.
c. Geronima de Benavides I cc N.N. (mother of Mariana Ortiz, from whom descend the Aramburu).

Now, it’s a matter of seeing how the other dispensas and known records square up to it. Tell me what you think?

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Thank you Manny for all your work. I agree with you that “Catalina Cortes” now stands out like a sore thumb”. This would explain calling her an hermana.

Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Just a cursory look at your response, I have a much different genealogy. I have (prior to this new info):

Diego Benavides* parent of:
1. Geronimo Benavides cc. Catalina Cortes parents of
.i. Juan Benavides cc? resulting in an Aguayo branch
.ii.Catalina Cortes cc? leading to Lomelin and Paez branch
.iii. Geronima Benavides cc? leading to Moscoso y Sandoval and Ortiz/Arambulo branch
.iv. Luis Benavides cc? (Andrea Cortes proposed) leading to Yanez and unknown child leading to Jacinta de Cuevas

*I have no confirmation that Diego is the father of Geronimo Benavides

I have not done a timeline analysis as of yet.

Could you explain this bit "From the timelines, I’d say they are the parents of Geronima de Benavides cc Gonzalo Yañez, and therefore, he was brother of Geronimo de Benavides, and she, likely a sister of his wife, Catalina Cortes."

I'm curious if the geneaologies/timelines resolve themselves with Geronimo Benavides and Catalina Cortes having a daughter named Catalina Cortes mother of Maria Benavides cc Carlos Lomelin. Looks like this is where our genealogies differ.

Comentario

​Hi Alex,

I'm ignoring everything that I think I know about these lines. I'm basing this genealogy on the Gaspar Lomelin/Maria Medinilla dispensa, which names Luis Benavides, Geronima Benavides and Catalina Cortes as siblings. My argument is that this is the 1st generation of these families, and that Catalina Cortes does not belong here, but her husband, Geronimo Benavides.

From what I can tell, Geronima Benavides cc Gonzalo Yanez, Maria Benavides cc Carlos Lomellini and her sister Geronima Benavides cc Francisco Paez were contemporaries, born around the same time, 1590-1600.

Thanks,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

The reason I ask is because removing the idea that Geronimo and Catalina had a daughter named Catalina in the manner I stated previously changes which families may use the name "Catalina Cortes" in their descendants (previously having Geronimo and Catalina at the very top gave all the branches the "right" to use the name Catalina Cortes).

I'm trying to see if this proposed genealogy is in agreement with which branches use Catalina Cortes and further if it is in agreement with other dispensas

Alex

Comentario

Ok I have been able to go to the documentation and I must say this stuff is very impressive!

Some comments and questions:

I agree that Geronimo de Benavides and Catalina Cortes had the four children you have compiled. I have no spouses confirmed for the four children. Can you provide insight as to how you have confirmed Isabel de Silva as the wife of Juan Benavides?

Re. Dispensa #1: It was weird the ascendancy of Maria Yanez was not discussed. Her father Juan was a sibling (maybe half sibling) of Jacinta de Oliva. How have you confirmed the ascendancy of Lucas Lomelin to Carlos Lomelin and Maria Benavides?

Re. Dispensa #3: How have you established that Joseph Lomelin is son of the same Domingo Lomelin wed to Juana de Mendoza?

Re. Dispensa #6: How did you confirm the parents of Francisca Duran. I have her parents being Juan Duran and Regina Aguayo but that is only because Los Altos de Jalisco by Sergio Gutierrez show Juan Duran and Regina Aguayo having a daughter named Francesca. I have not confirmed the Francesca Duran's are one and the same. I also do not said Regina Aguayo's parents at all.

Re. Dispensa #7: I just found it quite strange an IM was filed in 1687 with the marriage taking place in 1707. Looks like the parents of the individuals to be wed so looks good.

Re. Aguayo connection: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-TH59-V?mode=g&i=44&wc=3P9N…
Here is an IM for Regina Aguayo daughter of Andres Duran and Juana Vasquez de la Ascencion being wed to Domingo Mejia. There is a witness names Diego de Aguayo age 90 in 1677 and it states that he is Regina's grandfather. Now that cant be right be. Any ideas pertaining to that? I have Andres Duran being the son of Juan Duran and Regina Aguayo. He couldnt be Bisabuelo either because you propose Juan Benavides. Is this actually Regina Aguayo the elder's brother, who is married to Isabel de Arizaga?

Super solid work. The Benavides Cortes riddle is soon to be quite concrete!

Comentario

Re. Dispensa 6: I have answered my own question using the dispensa Manny provided on his thread.

1605
Nochistlán. Zac. Junio 17 de 1730. Exp. 38 - Dispensa de cuarto grado de
consanguinidad - Joseph Thadeo Casillas, español de 22 años de edad, oríginano
y vecino de este Curato, hijo legítimo de Vicente Casillas y de Agustina Gómez,
difunta; con María de Aguayo, española de 40 años de edad, originaria y vecina
de este Curato, hija legítima de Bernardino de Aguayo y de Magdalena de la
Dueña, difuntos. ¡Declaración del pretenso; Por ser bisnietos ambos de dos
hermanos que lo fueron Antonio y Regina de Aguayo. Regina tuvo por hija a
Francisca Duran, y Francisca tuvo por hijo a Vicente Casillas. Vicente tuvo por
hijo a Joseph Thadeo pretenso, y Antonio de Aguayo, tuvo por hijo a Antonio de
Aguayo. Antonio tuvo por hijo a Bernardino de Aguayo. Bernardino tuvo por hija a
María de Aguayo pretensa. Se otorgó la dispensa en la Ciudad de Guadalajara. en
4 de juüo de 1730. 11 fojas.

The dispensa shows Francisca Durans parents are Juan Duran and Regina Aguayo. This info in combination with Dispensa #5 would confirm that Regina Aguayo, who married Juan Duran, is the daughter of Juan Benavides. She also has a confirmed brother according to the dispensa I just posted named Antonio and another brother, Diego Aguayo, according to Dispensa #5.

Comentario

Alex,

Does this mean that Juan Benavides wife was named Aguayo, also since you mention Antonio de Aguayo and Diego de Aguayo, do you think they descend from the conquistadors Antonio de Aguayo, who also had a brother named Diego de Aguayo, mentioned here:

https://books.google.com/books?id=8IpnAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA3&dq=%22Aguayo,…

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Danny,

We cannot say with certainty with Juan Benavides wife's last name is.

Additional comment:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-TH98-1Q?i=89&wc=3P9N-VZ9%3…

In the marriage of Diego de Aguayo son of Diego de Aguayo and Isabel Vergara to Isabel Perez daughter of Sebastian de la Cruz Bermejo and Andrea Gonzalez, there are two witnesses:

Diego Sandoval married to Maria Delgadillo and Antonio Legaspi married to Magdalena Sandoval.

Antonio Legaspi states that the Diego de Aguayo to be wed is his wife's "primo en tercer grado"

The tree would look like:

Geronimo Benavides and Catalina Cortes
Geronima Benavides ----------1--- Juan Benavides (Isabel de Silva)
Catalina Cortes--------------2--- Diego de Aguayo (Isabel Arizaga)
Cecilia Vasquez de Sandoval--3--- Diego de Aguayo (Isabel Perez)
Magdalena Sandoval-----------4

Is this a primo en terco grado relationship? If so its further confirmation of this theory.

Diego Sandoval (the witness) also provides a relationship (aunque es su sobrino en tercer grado de consanguinidad el contrayente). Im not quite sure what exactly this means.

Comentario

Hi Alex,

I have a very hard time understanding the relationships on the dispensa's and really have difficulty following the trees, but I'm trying to see if this changes the relationships of my ancestor Juana Vasquez de Sandoval, daughter of Juan Moscoso y Sandoval and Catalina Cortes and wife of Andres Duran, son of Juan Simon Duran and Regina de Aguayo. Who are they saying Catalina Cortes (wife of Juan Moscoso) is the daughter of? And, who are they saying Regina de Aguayo (wife of Juan Duran) is the daughter of?

Paige

Comentario

I've been working on this all weekend and this is a very solid theory. I am to the point where I am comfortable putting this information in my own tree.

The sole primary source that I know of that appears to affect the theory is the mention that Diego de Aguayo is Regina's grandfather (See Re. Aguayo connection). This made me question as to if Andres Duran was actually the child of Juan Duran and Regina Aguayo. And if there was an Aguayo line that was being tangled up in this mess.

I looked to disprove or prove this fact on my own. I ended up disproving that Diego de Aguayo, the witness in the IM is not the grandfather of Regina Aguayo, daughter of Andres and Juana Vasquez de la Ascencion (I still have no idea who Diego de Aguayo is though). I assume here that everyone is in agreement that the parents of Juana Vasquez de la Ascencion's parents are Juan Moscoso y Sandoval and Catalina Cortes so the question is who are Andres Duran's parents?

Dispensa #A: Here is a dispensa for Lucas Abelar looking to wed Maria Josepha Gutierrez.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-65XJ-5?i=159&wc=12512749&c…

Given Tree:
Maria Duran-1-Andres Duran
Maria Munoz-2-Salvadora Duran
Getrudis Ramirez-3-Maria Theresa Gonzalez
Lucas Abelar-4-Maria Josepha Gutierrez

Salvadora Duran was born in 1672 to Andres Duran and Juana Sandoval so she is the sister of Regina Aguayo who married Domingo Mejia.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVQH-F2G

She wed in 1692 to Bernabe Gonzalez
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JZXX-N9L

Dispensa #B: Here is a dispensa for Tomas de Aguayo looking to wed Nicolasa Munoz, widow of Juan Gonzalez.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-VT92-DP?mode=g&cc=1874591

Given tree:
Diego de Aguayo-1-Regina Aguayo-2-Antonio Aguayo
Nicolas Aguayo-2-Maria Duran-2-Isabel Aguayo
Tomas Aguayo-3-Nicolas Munoz-3-Pedro Gutierrez
-------------4-Nicolasa Munoz-4-Juan Gutierrez

Now the combination of Dispensa's A and B show us that the mother of Maria Duran and Andres Duran of Dispensa A is Regina Aguayo who had Maria in 1640 with Juan Duran

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NYYH-CH3

Therefore, Diego de Aguayo named in the IM cannot be an Abuelo as those are Juan Duran and Juan Moscoso y Sandoval.

Another thing I noticed was that Andres Duran and Juana de la Asuncion should have been dispensed when they are married according to the proposed ancestry. The tree would look like:

Geronimo Beanvides and Catalina Cortes
Juan Benavides-1-Geronima Benavides
Regina Aguayo-2-Catalina Cortes
Andres Duran-3-Juana Vasquez de la Asuncion Moscoso y Sandoval

This dispensa would be a homerun if it could be found!

So the only primary source document that appears to give conflicting information looks like it has been disproved.

Last question, anyone have a primary source including Isabel Silva besides Diego de Aguayo's marriage to Isabel Beatriz? I'm curious because I haven't found Isabel Vergara Arizaga using the name Beatriz and haven't been able to connect Isabel Silva in any other way.

Comentario

I believe the source of the confusion is this paragraph, which I cannot edit:

"I looked to disprove or prove this fact on my own. I ended up disproving that Diego de Aguayo, the witness in the IM is not the grandfather of Regina Aguayo, daughter of Andres and Juana Vasquez de la Ascencion (I still have no idea who Diego de Aguayo is though). I assume here that everyone is in agreement that the parents of Juana Vasquez de la Ascencion's parents are Juan Moscoso y Sandoval and Catalina Cortes so the question is who are Andres Duran's parents?"

It should read:

I looked to disprove or prove this fact on my own. I ended up PROVING that Diego de Aguayo, the witness in the IM is NOT the grandfather of Regina Aguayo, daughter of Andres and Juana Vasquez de la Ascencion (I still have no idea who Diego de Aguayo is though). I assume here that everyone is in agreement that the parents of Juana Vasquez de la Ascencion's parents are Juan Moscoso y Sandoval and Catalina Cortes so the question is who are Andres Duran's parents?

Sorry!!

Comentario

Alex, thank you, I wasn't sure. and i agree with Paige, sometimes the dispensas are too hard to follow with so many of the same people with the same names. But I do agree this is great research. David and you have really put a lot of effort at solving this.

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Danny

The trick for me in analyzing the proposed genealogy was to go through all the dispensas cited in the original post and draw the trees using only the information provided in the dispensas. After you have done that, it all really falls into place quite elegantly despite there being individuals with the same name.

Its those secondary sources that messed with the Benavides line!

Alex

Comentario

Hi Alex,

I know the question was asked whether Juan Benavides was married to an Aguayo and you said that we can't say for sure what his wife's name was, but, it looks like at some points in the thread that Ysabel de Silva is married to Juan Benavides, is that right?

Mia M.

Comentario

I should preface that I am no expert in the Aguayo genealogy. I've only really dove into it since this was posted.

Here are the facts:

There is a marriage record for a Diego de Aguayo son of Isabel de Silva, widow, marrying Isabel Beatriz, daughter of Isabel, widow.

ASSUMING Isabel Beatriz of the marriage record is Isabel Vergara Arziaga, then Juan Benavides married Isabel de Silva.

Adding further evidence to this theory is that a grandaughter of Juan Benavidez and unconfirmed Isabel de Silva is Isabel Aguayo who married Miguel Gutierrez. She uses both the Aguayo and Silva surname. (Silva surname is used in the marriage of their son Pedro to Maria Rodriguez in 1671, sorry I don't have links to the documents at the moment).

Comentario

245Luigi:

There are several dispensations that confirm that: Diego de Aguayo (husband of Ysabel de Arizaga), Antonio de Aguayo (husband of Luisa de Isla), and Regina de Aguayo (wife of Juan Ximon Duran) are siblings. We know from the marriage of Diego de Aguayo to Ysabel de Arizaga, dated 18 May 1633, that Diego de Aguayo's mother (and ultimately Diego, Antonio, and Regina de Aguayo's mother) is named as "Ysabel de Silva" and that she is a widow.

In my Dispensas 5, 6, and 7, we have Ysabel de Aguayo, Carlos Casillas, and Maria Duran who are all described as being related in the 4th degree to Petronila de Isla, Magdalena Sandoval, and Juan Sandoval. We already know that Petronila de Isla, Magdalena Sandoval, and Juan Sandoval, are all grandchildren of Catalina Cortes (III) (wife of Juan Moscoso de Sandoval)-- who is the daughter of Geronima de Benavides (I) as per my Despensas 1 & 2. That left open the question: What 4th degree ancestor did Ysabel de Aguayo, Carlos Casillas, and Maria Duran have in common?: Ysabel de Silva. Than meant that Juan de Benavides must be her husband. (The only other possibility is that Ysabel de Aguayo, Carlos Casillas, and Maria Duran share Juan de Benavides as a 4th degree ancestor via another line, but they do not seem to have any other common great-grandmother other than Ysabel de Silva. So again, Juan de Benavides must be the husband of Ysabel de Silva.)

RE RE Dispensa 1. It is not weird that the ascendancy of Mariana Yanez is not discussed. The Dispensa is covering Maria Medinilla's marriage to her second husband Gasper Lomelin (who just so happens to be related to her and her first husband); the dispensa is not covering Maria Medinilla's marriage to her first husband, Nicolas Carvajal, which was a double relationship -- only the closer relationship was via a different line. I think Maria Yanez's father Juan Yanez was a half sibling to Jacinta de Oliva (Yanez) (I forget where this is shown).

RE RE Dispensa 3. Domingo Lomelin is named as the brides grandfather in the Dispensa. Taking this info with Holcombe's couple, Carlos Lomolin and Maria de Benavides, then plugging this Maria de Benavides back into my Dispensa 1 provides that Lucas de Lomelin is the son of Carlos Lomelin and Maria de Benavides, daughter of Catalina Cortes (II)(with no known husband), daughter of Geronimo de Benavides and Catalina Cortes (I).

RE RE Dispensa 6. You found the proof that Francisca Duran is the daughter of Juan Duran and Regina de Aguayo, using the Dispensa that Manny provided. For good measure, here is another dispensa that passes through Regina's brother Diego, and through Regina's daughter Francisca.

Seen here:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-619B-Y?i=615&cc=1874591

RE RE Dispensa 7. It is strange, but the date on the (IM) is 1687 and the date on the (MAR) is 1707.

RE RE Aguayo Connection. I agree. This Diego de Aguayo (ca 1587 -- aft. 1677) cannot possibly be the grandfather of Regina de Aguayo/Duran since we already know her two grandfathers to be Juan Ximon Duran and Juan Moscoso de Sandoval. This MUST BE A SCRIBAL ERROR. I think this is THE SPECIFIC DOCUMENT that lead to the secondary sources concluding that he must be her great-grandfather, and thus a supposed husband of Ysabel de Silva. This cannot be true since Ysabel de Silva is shown earlier to be a widow as of 1633. I think this Diego is the same Diego who is described as age 97 in 1687 (born ca. 1590) and age 110 in 1694 (born ca. 1584). I think he is Regina de Aguayo's older brother.

Looking at the birth range of her children, Regina de Aguayo's birth year would range between 1590 and 1610. Looking at the death record of Regina's sister-in-law Luisa de Isla (wife of Antonio de Aguayo), she died in 1676 and is described as a widow age 90 (so she was born ca. 1586).

Seen here:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-TTG8?mode=g&i=49&cc=1804458

I would assume that Luisa de Isla's late husband Antonio was probably born about the same time. Looking at all three siblings: Diego de Aguayo (born ca. 1584/1587/1590), Antonio de Aguayo (born ca. 1586), and Regina de Aguayo (born ca. between 1590-1610), chronologically it makes sense.

I am glad you brought up the (IM) for Diego de Aguayo marrying Isabel Perez. Seen here:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-TH98-1Q?mode=g&i=89&wc=3P9…

In it the testigo, Antonio de Legaspi, says that Diego de Aguayo (husband of Isabel Perez) is "primo en trecer grado" to his wife Magdalena de Labesares/Gonzalez/Sandoval. "Primo en trecer grado" is a general term which today is equivalent to the English term: "third cousin". Back in the 1600's it could also mean: "second cousin." More importantly, the other testigo, Deigo de Sandoval, describes the relationship as "subrino en trecer grado." "Subrino en trecer grado" is a more specific term which is exactly equivalent to the English term: "second cousin once removed." This is the exact relationship shown in the tree below.

Trunk: Geronimo Benavides and Catalina Cortes
Geronima Benavides ----------1--- Juan Benavides (Isabel de Silva)
Catalina Cortes--------------2--- Diego de Aguayo (Isabel Arizaga)
Cecilia Vasquez de Sandoval--3--- Diego de Aguayo (Isabel Perez)
Magdalena Sandoval-----------4

It fits the bill!

Here is a good chart on Spanish terms of relation:

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:Nomenclatura_de_parentesco_en_espa%…

--------------------------------------------

So though it seems strange, I still feel that Diego de Aguayo (husband of Ysabel de Arizaga), Antonio de Aguayo (husband of Luisa de Isla), and Regina de Aguayo (wife of Juan Ximon Duran) are all the children of Juan de Benavides and Ysabel de Silva -- and that the supposed Diego de Aguayo who is said to be the husband of Ysabel de Silva might not exist. It is that one 1677 (IM) record that must have a scribal error that has lead many to believe that the ancient Diego de Aguayo was Ysabel de Silva's husband, when he must really be her son.

We are left with the question of where the surname "Aguayo" comes from. It might be a family surname that was carried further back in the pedigrees of Juan de Benavides or Ysabel de Silva. We see this phenomenon with the descendants of Francisco Gonzalez and Magdalena de Labesaris. Many of their descendants sporadically appear with the surnames: "Martinez," "Baca," and "Lozano." All seemed strange until, via other overlapping dispenses and padrinos, we were able to show that Francisco Gonzalez came from the Lozano trunk -- a family which also carried the Martinez and Baca surnames.

We simply do not have enough information currently to know the exact origin of "Aguayo" in this line. Nor do we yet know what connection, if any, these Aguayo's might have with the conquistador Antonio de Aguayo. (Secondary sources name Geronimo de Benavides' father as Diego de Benavides. I wonder if this Diego "de Benavides" could be an alias for Diego "de Aguayo" who was a brother of the conquistador Antonio de Aguayo. Or maybe the conquistador Antonio de Aguayo is related to Ysabel de Silva in some way. Either way, more research would be needed to prove a connection.)

I would like to point out that this is not the first time I have seen a family line suddenly change surnames without warning. A good example of this comes from a couple I am not too familiar with: Juan de Ulloa and Josefa Baustista Gonzales de Ruvalcaba. Many of their descendants begin using the surname "Marquez de los Olivos" despite that name not appearing in their traceable pedigrees. Another example of this, are the descendants of Hernan Sanchez Rico and Leonor Duran whose descendants begin using the surname "Chaves" as they populated New Mexico; yet, neither Hernan or Leonor's parents appear to carry the surname "Chaves." There is another family called "Marquez" from Colotlan whose descendants start using the surname "Huisar." There is also another family called "Nieto" from San Luis Potosi, one branch of which begins using the surname "Cedillo".

Changing surnames, though not common, is not an entirely unknown practice in colonial Mexico.

Comentario

ALSO:

Ysabel de Silva/Aguayo is confirmed as per the following dispensa:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-VT92-DP?mode=g&i=86&cc=187…

Tree:
Trunk: Juan de Benavides & Ysabel de Silva
Antono de Aguayo-1-Regina de Aguayo
Ysabel de Silva/Aguayo-2-Maria Duran
Pedro Gutierrez-3-Nicolas Munoz
Juan Gutierrez-4-Nicolasa Munoz

Comentario

David,

Thank you for adding this additional explanation to your already excellent research. Now, this all makes complete sense. This is amazing work. Thank you also Alex for answering many of my questions. Excellent job everyone.

Paige

Comentario

Thank you for the very thorough response. Could you please explain the confirmation for Isabel de Silva in the 2nd paragraph of your reply?

I agree via primary source that Diego de Aguayo (husband of Ysabel de Arizaga), Antonio de Aguayo (husband of Luisa de Isla), and Regina de Aguayo (wife of Juan Ximon Duran) are siblings and children of Juan Benavides. I dont understand how the dispensas tie in Isabel de Silva. For example is Juan Benavides was married to another woman besides Isabel de Silva, the dispensas would read the same.

There is the marriage of Diego de Aguayo son of Isabel Silva marrying Isabel Beatriz but there isnt enough info in it to claim this is the marriage of Diego de Aguayo and Isabel de Arizaga Vergara. I actually believe this is their marriage record, I'm just curious if there is a primary source tying Isabel Silva to the siblings. The fact a granddaughter uses the name Isabel Silva really convinces me.

Side Question: I dont have any documents including Andres Cuevas and Maria Benavides. Could you share?

Thank you

Alex

Comentario

Danny:

Hypothetically, Ysabel de Silva (wife of Juan de Benavides) could be the daughter of an Aguayo and a Silva. However, we need some kind of primary evidence for this. It would be hard to say exactly where Aguayo is coming from at this point. It may come from further back in Juan or Ysabel's pedigrees then we currently know of. Such was the case with Ynes Martinez Baca/Isla (wife of Cristobal Mexia) who was carrying the name of her great-grandmother Ynes Martinez Baca (wife of Juan Lozano).

--------------------

Alex:

The dispensas do not tie to Ysabel de Silva because they do not pass through her, per se. I am using the 1633 marriage of Diego de Aguayo, which names his mother as Ysabel de Silva. I am also using the fact that Antonio de Aguayo and Luisa de Isla's daughter uses the name Ysabel de Silva as confirmation that Antonio, Diego, and Regina's mother is also named Ysabel de Silva.

Andres de Cueva appears as the husband of Maria de Benavides when they are Padrinos to the baptism of Juan (son of Juan Rodriguez and Caterina Yanez) in Nochistlan 1678, image 377.

Link:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-G1VF-D?mode=g&i=376&wc=3P9…

Remember this Maria de Benavides (II) (wife of Andres de Cueva) is the daughter of N.N. de Benavides, and granddaughter of Luis de Benavides, great-granddaughter of Geronimo de Benavides and Catalina Cortes (I). She is not the same Maria de Benavides (I) (wife of Carlo Lomelin) who was the daughter of Catalina Cortes (II) (with an unknown spouse), granddaughter of Geronimo de Benavides and Catalina Cortes (I).

Comentario

Thank you again for the reply and clarifying all of the available sources. I'm seeing the same thing and making the same conclusions. Great work! I've changed my tree to reflect this updated genealogy.

Some more pieces for the puzzle:

There is the Catalina Cortes who passed away in 1652 who you discussed in the original post. I'm betting she is the Catalina Cortes who is the mother of Maria Benavides (Carlos Lomelin) and grandmother of Francisco Paez (Francisca Sanchez Carranza).

In the 1649 Census of Nochistlan, Maria Benavides cc (Carlos Lomelin) is a widow and in her household are:
Maria de Lomelin cc and her husband Nicolas de Contreras cc (explictly stated)
Juana Lomelin N
Ines de Contreras N
Jose de Lomelin N
Catalina Cortes cc, widow

cc = confession and communion, c = confession, N = none (this assists in giving an indication of age)

Source: Los Altos de Jalisco, Padrones Parroquiales Del Siglo XVII, By Sergio Gutierrez, Vol 1, Pg 27.

Given the updated genealogy, I dont think it would be too big of a leap to conclude the Catalina in this household is probably Maria Benavides' mother rather than grandmother who is living in 1649. She would then pass 3 years later according to the record.

Next door is:
Juan de Caravajal cc
Jacinta de Oliva, his wife cc
Lorenzo de Caravajal
Jose de Caravajal cc
Cristobal de Caravajal c
Pedro de Caravajal c
Nicolas de Caravajal c
Geronima de Caravajal c
Juan de Caravajal N
Francisco de Benavides cc
Geronima de Benavides cc
Agustin Yanez c
Jacinta de Oliva N
Maria Ana N
Tomasa de Oliva N

Source: Los Altos de Jalisco, Padrones Parroquiales Del Siglo XVII, By Sergio Gutierrez, Vol 1, Pg 27.

I already have Juan de Caravajal and Jacinta de Oliva, daughter of Gonzalo Yanez del Monte and Geronima Benavides in my tree along with children Jose - Juan in the list above. I don't have Lorenzo; perhaps he is a son that I am just missing. Francisco and Geronima Benavides are unexplained and I'm curious as to who they may be.

Anoyone have an estimate as to when Gonzalo Yanez del Monte and his wife passed away?

Comentario

Guau. This is amazing. This will take a few days for me to sift through - I haven’t touched these lines, since I started that thread, so I have a lot of catching up to do. But what I’ve seen, makes sense.
Thanks, all of you, for sharing!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Alex and David

This answer makes me wonder something. Since we know there's multiple Catalina Cortés's and multiple Benavides with the same name and since it seems like Ysabel de Silva is the wife of Juan de Benavides and mother of Regina de Aguayo and the other Aguayos and it seems unlikely that Juan de Benavides is the actual source of Aguayo, could it be that there actually is a Diego de Aguayo married to an Ysabel de Silvia and that the Ysabel de Silvia that's married to Juan de Benavides is actually the daughter of the first Ysabel de Silva?

Danny C. Alonso

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Mié, 2017-03-15 13:02 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Thanks to David, Manny Ronnie, and others for straightening out this mess. I descend from most, if not all, of these lines multiple times. I really appreciate the work done to straighten out these lines. the mess that secondary sources made of these lines is similar to the mess many secondary sources made with the Pantoja Merlo lines.

Thanks again,
Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Genealogist

thank you for your research. i think a lot of it makes sense but i think some of it like the part where Juan Benavides is the patriarch of the Aguayo family seems unusual. i would really like to hear what Manny Diez has to say about this post. also, i want to know what you think of the conquistador Antonio de Aguayo, who also had a brother named Diego de Aguayo, and what you think his relationship is to these Aguayo's. Antonio de Aguayo was a conqueror of Nueva Galicia:

https://books.google.com/books?id=8IpnAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA3&dq=%22Aguayo,…

Danny C. Alonso

Testamentaria de Aguascalientes de las Familias Gallardo, Gil, Macías de Ortega, Quezada, Salas de Bonilla, etc.

Published by Ramirez –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

Hola amigos, desde hace tiempo quiero conseguir algunos testamentos para mi investigación genealógica y no se como conseguirlos, no se si ustedes me pueden proporcionar ayuda en este sentido.

Quiero conseguir el testamento de Francisco Gil, que murió en 1720 y que testó ante Don Baltazar de Aguilera. También quisiera saber donde y como conseguir memorias extrajudiciales, no se si existen todavía o no.

Comentarios

Comentario

Request from Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez (translated by Jaime)

Hello friends, for some time I've been trying to find certain wills for my genealogical research but I do not know where to find them. Maybe someone in the group could help me in this matter.

I would like to find the last will and testament of Francisco Gil, who died in 1720, witnessed by Don Baltazar de Aguilera. Also, I would like to know how and\or where would 'extra-judicial memoirs' would be archived, or whether they exist at all.

I am also interested on information of certain families from Aguascalientes, such as the ancestors of:

Simón Salas de Bonilla and Nicolasa de Anda Altamirano.
Sebastiana López de Estrada, wife of José Macías de Ortega.
Antonio Macías de Ortega and Rosa María de Quezada.
María de la Cruz, wife of Pedro Salas de Bonilla.
Francisco Gil and María Magdalena Gallardo.
Agustín Marín de Peñaloza and Jacinta de Villalobos.

I also descend from other well known families from Aguascalientes, such as Romo de Vivar, Lozano Isla, Macías Valadez, Marentes de Otaduy, López de Nava, Quiijas y Escalante, Tiscareño de Molina, Ruiz de Esparza, but these are well studied and my records are very complete all the way to their roots in Galicia, Spain.

I will be very grateful for any help, and I will make sure to reciprocate. My genealogical studies center in Tepatitlán, Jalostotitlán and San Miguel el Alto, but also include ancestors in San Juan de los Lagos, Lagos de Moreno, Teocaltiche, Ocotlán, all in Jalisco; also some from Nochistlán and Jalpa, Zacatecas; others Aguascalientes; and a few in Michoacán.

Saludos.Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez"
To: "Bill Figueroa" , "Nuestros Ranchos"
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 12:13:27 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Testamentaria de Aguascalientes de las Familias Gallardo, Gil, Macías de Ortega, Quezada, Salas de Bonilla, etc.

Hola amigos, desde hace tiempo quiero conseguir algunos testamentos para mi investigación genealógica y no se como conseguirlos, no se si ustedes me pueden proporcionar ayuda en este sentido.

Quiero conseguir el testamento de Francisco Gil, que murió en 1720 y que testó ante Don Baltazar de Aguilera. También quisiera saber donde y como conseguir memorias extrajudiciales, no se si existen todavía o no.

Quiero saber de algunas familias de Aguascalientes, como los ancestros de:

Simón Salas de Bonilla y Nicolasa de Anda Altamirano.
Sebastiana López de Estrada, mujer de José Macías de Ortega.
Antonio Macías de Ortega y Rosa María de Quezada.
María de la Cruz, mujer de Pedro Salas de Bonilla.
Francisco Gil y María Magdalena Gallardo.
Agustín Marín de Peñaloza y Jacinta de Villalobos.
También desciendo de otras familias de Aguascalientes, como los Romo de Vivar, Lozano Isla, Macías Valadez, Marentes de Otaduy, López de Nava, Quiijas y Escalante, Tiscareño de Molina, Ruiz de Esparza, pero son líneas que ya están muy estudiadas y ya las tengo completas hasta su tronco neogallego.

Si me pueden ayudar con algo se los agradeceré muchísimo, y veré en que puedo ayudarlos a ustedes. Mis estudios genealógicos se centran mas en Tepatitlán, Jalostotitlán y San Miguel el Alto, aunque tengo ancestros en San Juan de los Lagos, Lagos de Moreno, Teocaltiche, Ocotlán, todos en Jalisco; y también alguno que otro en Nochistlán y Jalpa, Zacatecas; otros en Aguascalientes; y unos pocos en Michoacán.
Saludos.Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
Comparte fotos, juega y charla en Messenger.
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Comentario

Hi Jorge, if you want to get a hold of any wills (also called Bienes de Difuntos, Documentos Notariales and Testamentos). You need to see the microfilm. Unfortunatly they are not available through the Family History Center, you need to go to Salt Lake directly, where they have them in the library and the Vault. Here you can find all wills made in El Obispado de la Nueva Galicia. OR if your lucky someone in the group might have a couple I know I have the will for Pedro Romo de Vivar and Álvaro de Ornellas, if you want it. I do know that in Retoños de España include several wills but not all. Hope this helps. -Daniel Camino

TitleBienes de difuntos : de la Real Audiencia de Guadalajara, Jalisco, México, 1549-1885
AuthorsReal Audiencia de Guadalajara (México) (Main Author)
NotesMicrofilmación de manuscritos en la Biblioteca Pública del Estado de Jalisco en Guadalajara, Jalisco, México.Microfilmes de reducción 42x. Use un lector con lente de alta ampliación.Por la antiguedad de los documentos muchos de ellos están dañados con manchas y tinta traspasada.La Real Audiencia de Guadalajara o de Nueva Galicia fue el máximo tribunal de la Corona española en el territorio de Nueva Galicia, del Virreinato de Nueva España (México). Fue establecida el 13 de febrero de 1548 en Compostela, siendo trasladada a Guadalajara en 1560. Nueva Galicia es el nombre que se le dio a un territorio del virreinato de Nueva España, que abarcaba los hoy estados mexicanos de Nayarit, Jalisco, Colima, Aguascalientes y parte de Sinaloa, Zacatecas y San Luis Potosí y que tuvo una trayectoria diferenciada dentro del virreinato.Juicios testamentarios de los bienes de difuntos realizados por la Real Audiencia de Guadalajara.Probate records of wills issued by the Real Audiencia of Guadalajara, Mexico, which covered the current Mexican states of Nayarit, Jalisco, Colima, Aguascalientes, and parts of the states of Sinaloa, Zacatecas, and San Luis Potosí. Text in old Spanish.No circulation to family history centers.
SubjectsWills - Mexico - GuadalajaraMéxico, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Probate recordsMéxico, Jalisco - Probate recordsMéxico, Nayarit - Probate recordsMéxico, Colima - Probate recordsMéxico, Aguascalientes - Probate recordsMéxico, Sinaloa - Probate recordsMéxico, San Luis Potosí - Probate recordsMéxico, Zacatecas - Probate records
FormatManuscript (On Film)
LanguageSpanish
PublicationSalt Lake City, Utah : Filmados por la Sociedad Genealógica de Utah, 2007
Physical70 carretes de microfilme ; 16 mm.
Film NotesNote - Location [Film]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 1, Expedientes 1-15, 1549-1564, Caja 2, Expedientes 16-28, 1571-1598, Caja 3, Expedientes 29-48, 1601-1689, Caja 4, Expedientes 49-59, 1622-1773, Caja 5, Expedientes 50-70, 1602-1650 (original dañado, páginas manchadas y tinta traspasada) - VAULT INTL Film [ 1262632 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 6, Expedientes 71-79, 1641-1747, Caja 7, Expedientes 80-86, 1656-1687, Caja 8, Expedientes 87-98, 1652-1691, Caja 9, Expedientes 99-111, 1690-1699, Caja 10, Expedientes 112-130, 1691-107 (original dañado, tinta trapsada y páginas manchadas) - VAULT INTL Film [ 1262633 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 11, Expedientes 131-167, 1678-1720, Caja 12, Expedientes 168-176, 1709-1713, Caja 13, Expedientes 177-182, 1712-1726, Caja 14, Expedientes 183-186, 1711-1722 (original dañado, tinta traspasada y páginas manchadas) - VAULT INTL Film [ 1262634 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 15, Expedientes 187-192, 1710-1728, Caja 16, Expedientes 193-201, 1719-1728, Caja 17, Expedientes 202-208, 1716-1744, Caja 18, Expedientes 209-218, 1699-1755 (original dañado, tinta traspasada y páginas manchadas) - VAULT INTL Film [ 1262635 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 19, Expedientes 219-226, 1719-1745, Caja 20, Expedientes 227-235, 1715-1769, Caja 21, Expedientes 236-272, 1713-1738, Caja 22, Expedientes 273-276, 1722-1780 (tinta traspasada, original dañado y páginas manchadas) - VAULT INTL Film [ 1262641 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 22, Expedientes 277-282, 1722-1730, Caja 23, Expedientes 283-297, 1714-1734, Caja 24, Expediente 298-307, 1724-1730, Caja 25, Expedientes 308-318, 1723-1734, Caja 26, Expedientes 319-335, 1716-1735 (original dañado, tinta traspasada y páginas manchadas) - VAULT INTL Film [ 1262642 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 26, Expedientes 336-339, 1715-1754, Caja 27, Expedientes 340-346, 1726-1739, Caja 28, Expedientes 347-356, 1727-1757, Caja 29, Expedientes 357-381, 1724-1730 (original dañado, tinta traspasada y páginas manchadas) - VAULT INTL Film [ 1262643 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 30, Expepdientes 382-385, 1716-1730, Caja 31, Expedientes 386-408, 1724-1734, Caja 32, Expedientes 409-413, 1726-1761, Caja 33, Expedientes 414-418, 1724-1730, Caja 34, Expedientes 419, 1724-1739 (original dañado, tinta traspasada y páginas manchadas) - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567047 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 35, Expedientes 420-423, 1719-1740, Caja 36, Expedientes 424-435, 1724-1740, Caja 37, Expedientes 436-457, 1721-1738, Caja 38, Expedientes 458-461, 1731-1735 (original dañado, páginas manchadas y tinta traspasada) - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567048 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 38, Expedientes 462-471, 1729-1753, Caja 39, Expedientes 472-476, 1715-1732, Caja 40, Expedientes 477-507, 1724-1734, Caja 41, Expedientes 508-511, 1731-1734 (original dañado, tinta traspasada t páginas manchadas) - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567049 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 42, Expedientes 512-524, 1733 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567050 Item 1 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 43, Expedientes 525-552, 1733-1734 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567050 Item 2 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 44, Expedientes 553-563, 1732-1734 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567050 Item 3 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 45, Expedientes 564-590, 1734 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567051 Item 1 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 46, Expedientes 591-606, 1735 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567051 Item 2 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 47, Expedientes 607-612, 1735-1736 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567051 Item 3 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 48, Expedientes 613-628, 1735-1737 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567052 Item 1 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 49, Expedientes 629-640, 1737 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567052 Item 2 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 49, Expedientes 641-647, 1738-1739 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567052 Item 3 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 51, Expedientes 648-653, 1738 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567052 Item 4 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 52, Expedientes 654-663, 1738 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567053 Item 1 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 53, Expedientes 664-679, 1737-1738 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567053 Item 2 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 53 (cont.), Expedientes 680(1)-682, 1737-1738 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567053 Item 3 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 54, Expedientes 683-692, 1739 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567053 Item 4 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 55, Expedientes 693-697, 1739 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567054 Item 1 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 56, Expedientes 698-714, 1739-1740 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567054 Item 2 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 57, Expedientes 715-733, 1730, 1740-1741 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567054 Item 3 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 58, Expedientes 734-743, 1730, 1741-1742 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567054 Item 4 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 59, Expedientes 744-761, 1740-1742 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567054 Item 5 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 60, Expedientes 762-766, 1742 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567058 Item 1 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 61, Expedientes 767-791, 1742-1743, 1749 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567058 Item 2 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 62, Expedientes 792-803, 1744-1745 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567058 Item 3 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 63, Expedientes 804-816, 1745-1746 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567058 Item 4 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 64, Expedientes 817-834, 1746-1748 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567059 Item 1 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 65, Expedientes 835-851, 1747-1748, 1756 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567059 Item 2 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 66, Expedientes 852-856, 1748 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567059 Item 3 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 67, Expedientes 857-860, 1748-1749 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567059 Item 4 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 68, Expedientes 861-883, 1748-1749 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567060 Item 1 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 69, Expedientes 884-893, 1749 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567060 Item 2 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 70, Expedientes 894-918, 1747-1756 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567060 Item 3 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 71, Expedientes 919-929, 1750-1753 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567060 Item 4 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 72, Expedientes 930-956, 1750-1751 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567065 Item 1 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 73, Expedientes 957-969, 1748-1752 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567065 Item 2 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 74, Expedientes 970-977, 1752 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567065 Item 3 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 75, Expedientes 978-991, 1751-1752 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567065 Item 4 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 76, Expedientes 992-1008, 1565, 77, 1718, 28, 40, 53, 77, 81, 1802, 22 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567066 Item 1 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 77, Expedientes 1009-1017, 1755-1754 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567066 Item 2 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 78, Expedientes 1018-1031, 1754, 1759 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567066 Item 3 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 79, Expedientes 1032-1040, 1755 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567066 Item 4 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 80, Expedientes 1041-1058, 1755-1756 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567066 Item 5 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 81, Expedientes 1059-1064, 1752, 1756-1757 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567066 Item 6 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 82, Expedientes 1065-1087, 1756, 1791 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567067 Item 1 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 83, Expedientes 1088-1097, 1757 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567067 Item 2 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 84, Expedientes 1098-1119, 1757-1758, 1775 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567067 Item 3 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 85, Expedientes 1120-1135, 1758 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567067 Item 4 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 86, Expedientes 1136-1158, 1759-1761 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567067 Item 5 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 87, Expedientes 1159-1174, 1760-1761 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567068 Item 1 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 88, Expedientes 1175-1194, 1761-1763 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567068 Item 2 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 89, Expedientes 1195-11209, 1762-1763 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567068 Item 3 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 90, Expedientes 1210-1230, 1763-1764 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567068 Item 4 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 91, Expedientes 1231-1239, 1765 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567076 Item 1 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 92, Expedientes 1240-1245, 1766, 1769 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567076 Item 2 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 93, Expedientes 1246-1268, 1766-1767 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567076 Item 3 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 94, Expedientes 1269-1301, 1766-1767 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567076 Item 4 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 95, Expedientes 1302-1322, 1768 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567076 Item 5 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 96, Expedientes 1323-1330, 1768-1769 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567077 Item 1 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 97, Expedientes 1331-1337, 1768-1769 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567077 Item 2 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 98, Expedientes 1338-1343, 1758, 1769 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567077 Item 3 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 99, Expedientes 1344-1347, 1770, 1780-1781 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567077 Item 4 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 100, Expedientes 1348-1355B, 1770-1773 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567077 Item 5 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 101, Expedientes 1356-1361, 1770-1771 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567078 Item 1 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 102, Expedientes 1362-1366, 1771-1772 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567078 Item 2 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 103, Expedientes 1367-1370, 1772-1801 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567078 Item 3 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 104, Expedientes 1371-1374, 1772 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567078 Item 4 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 106, Expedientes 1383A-1384, 1773-1787 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567085 Item 1 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 107, Expedientes 1385-1387, 1773-1796 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567085 Item 2 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 105, Expedientes 1375-1382 fuera de orden, 1769-1782 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567085 Item 3 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 108, Expedientes 1383-1395, 1773-1774 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567085 Item 4 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 109, Expedientes 1396-1403, 1774 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567085 Item 5 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 110, Expedientes 1404-1413, 1770-1774 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567086 Item 1 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 111, Expedientes 1414-1418, 1775 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567086 Item 2 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 112, Expedientes 1419-1425, 1776-1777 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567086 Item 3 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 113, Expedientes 1426-1438, 1776 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567086 Item 4 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 114, Expedientes 1439-1443, 1777 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567086 Item 5 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 115, Expedientes 1444-1445, 1777, 1785 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567087 Item 1 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 116, Expedientes 1446-1452, 1777 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567087 Item 2 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 117, Expedientes 1453-1455, 1777, 1785 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567087 Item 3 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 118, Expedientes 1456-1458, 1778-1779 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567087 Item 4 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 119, Expedientes 1459-1465, 1776-1778 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567087 Item 5 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 120, Expedientes 1466-1772 continua siguiente rollo, 1779-1780 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567087 Item 6 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 120, Expedientes 1443, 1779-1750 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567091 Item 1 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 121, Expedientes 1444-1448, 1774-1795 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567091 Item 2 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 122, Expedientes 1449-1483, 1774-1781 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567091 Item 3 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 123, Expedientes 1484-1487, 1773-1781 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567091 Item 4 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 124, Expedientes 1488-1490 Contina en otro rollo, 1773-1783 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567091 Item 5 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 124, Expedientes 1488-1490 Continuacion en otro rollo, 1773-1783 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567092 Item 1 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 125, Expedientes 1491-1495, 1782-1783 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567092 Item 2 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 126, Expedientes 1496-1497, 1783-1785 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567092 Item 3 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 127, Expedientes 1498a-1498, 1783-1787 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567092 Item 4 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 128, Expedientes 1499a-1499, 1784-1796 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567092 Item 5 ]
Bienes de difuntos, Caja 128 (cont.), Expedientes 1499-1499-7, 1787-1793 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567093 Item 1 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 129, Expedientes 1500-1505, 1784-1785 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567093 Item 2 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 130, Expedientes 1506-1517, 1782-1785 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567093 Item 3 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 131, Expedientes 1518-1519-4, 1786 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567093 Item 4 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 132, Expedientes 1520-1525, 1785-1876 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567094 Item 1 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 133, Expedientes 1526/1-1526/3, 1786-1790 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1567094 Item 2 ]Bienes de difuntos, Caja 134, Expedientes 1527-1552, 1786-1790 - VAULT INTL

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Comentario

Hola Jorge,
Rvevise tu arbol otra vez y encontre que tienes a Juan Jose padilla sin Estevan. El nombre es Juan Jose Esteban Padilla Cobarubias nacido/Bautizado el15/ag/1794 este es el nombre del esposo de ma. gert. saturnina Gonz. casillas. Yo tambien desciendo de ellos. una hermana de anastacio Padilla Gonz is Maria Victoria Padilla Gonz. la abuela paterna de mi abuela paterna, Lucila De la torre Rodriguez.

revise tu familia, yo tambien desciendo de jose domingo padilla y Perez de Paredes y maria juliana cobarubias Gonzalez Rubio. Tambien desciendo de Salvador Ygnacio Ramirez de Hermosillo y Gutierrez de Laris Y Josefa martin del Campo y Perez de Paredes

Me podrias decir se tienes informacion sobre Josef Antonio Cobarubias casado con Ynes Gpe Gomez el 30 de marzo 1750 en Guad El es el abuelo paterno de Juliana

Tambien quiero juntar toda la informacion de los descendietes de Salvador Ramirez y Josefa Martin. Muchas de las familias Vallalupenses y familias de Pegueros que se venieron a California descienden de esta pareja.
R.A.Ricci

R.A.Ricci

Comentario

Hola R.A.Ricci ayer me la pasé buscando el matrimonio de Manuel Marín de Peñaloza y Teresa de Alba que tengo de 22 de sep 1718 en Teocaltiche, pero no la encuentro, es mas, ni en el IGI encontré matrimonios en esa fecha, no se ni de donde la saqué, algo raro.

En cuanto a la información que me pides de José Antonio de Covarrubias e Ines de Guadalupe Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza, tengo que José Antonio fue bautizado el 13 de junio de 1726 en Cuquío, hijo de José de Covarrubias y Leonor Sánchez de Porras. Ines bautizada el 02 de febrero de 1723 en Jalostotitlán, hija de Gregorio Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza y Luisa Padilla Dávila.

Me gustaría saber tu ascendencia en las ramas que tenemos en común, y en cuanto a los descendientes de Salvador Ignacio Ramírez de Hermosillo y María Josefa de San Leonardo Martín del Campo, es la rama de mas interés para mi, ya que es mi primer apellido el Ramírez. Además de que desciendo de manera directa de 4 hijos de Salvador y Josefa. Tengo 12 hijos de este matrimonio.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

Hola Jorge,
somos primos cercanos muchas veces por que yo desciendo de salvador y josefa por mi madre y tambien de juan jose esteban padilla. y saturnina Gonzalez por mi padre.

Mis notas no tienen esa fecha (22/sep/1718) pero me tienes en duda. voy a seguir investigando. Voy a sacar el rollo de teocaltiche de este ano para ver que dice.

Me falta investigar los sanchez porra, leonor casado con Jose Covarrubias y tambien Catalina Sanchez porras casada con Francisco Martin del Campo el 24/dec/1698, santa ma lagos lagos de moreno
Tambien voy a tener que investigar los covarrubias
me falta tambien sacar la act de Francisco Munoz de la barba casado con Maria de Jesus Vallejo 11/jan/1741 en tepatitlan
Estoy juntando los vallejos de nuestra familia con los vallejos de california que se venieron al norte mas de dos cientos anos y ayudaron establecer California como Estado de estados unidos. Yo desciendo de estos vallejos cuatro veces.

Hay un gran misterio con los casillas de teposanes En muchos de los arboles en los libros de los casillas tienen a Jose Maria Casillas casado con leogarda (Luguarda) Villalpando como los papas de Francisco casillas casado Lorenza gutierrez. Yo tambien tengo esta informacion.
El misterio es que hay dos parejas nombrados iguales casados el mismo ano y los libros siguen la linea del matrimonio de jose de san Roman Casillas y magdalena Gonzalez hermosillo padres de jose maria y leogarda Villalpando hija de jose Perfecto Villalpando y con Guadalupe Hernandez. ellos se csaron en arandas o ayo el chico no me acuerdo.
Yo he seguido otra linea porque me recuerdo de informes del abuelo del chirol quien vivio muchos anos. Por eso la pareja de jose maria Villalpando casado con lugarda Villalpando casados en jalostotitlan el mismo ano 1788 tiene mas razon. El abuelo de chirol insistio que mi bisabuelo era su pariente cercano y no mas es cierto si esta es la linea es la correcta. Los villalpando de mi familia son los de los villalpando de la segunda matrimonio, la de jalos.(que viene de los Villalpando de Nochistlan) el matrimonio era en jalos pero esta familia vivia entre jalos y tepa. Los padres de este jose maria casillas son Jose tHOMAS Casillas y ma.gertrudis salgado. los padres de Leogarda son salvador anastacio antonio Villalpando y Josefa Gertrudis Margarita Barba . estos si eran de esta area y no la primera familia de Jose maria Casillas Y Leogarda Villalpando que todos siguen.
Yo se que hay una acta para un Francisco Trinidad Casillas Villalpando Voy a sacar la acta de Jose Rito Casillas Villalpando un hermano del verdadero francisco para ver si puedo combrobar quienes son los verdaderos padres. Jose Rito se Bautizo en Jalos el 16/jun/1794. Esta acta nos dira si los libros estan bien o la informacion del abuelo del chirol.

De la familia de ygnacio salvador ramirez y josefa Martin del campo deciendo yo y mucha de las familias de santa monica, los padillas de pegueros, muchas, muchas, muchas, de las familias franco, la familia de Lupilla Garcia de Rodriguez, algunos de los barba,rodriguez, ramirez, los jauregui, romo, alvarez,muchos de los perez,la familia de los casillas martin en el valle de san fernando california.

No mas tengo ocho de los hijos. me puedes mandar los demas y sus familias. Esta linea fue la primera donde hiza la connection a europa.

Tengo trabajando en el arbol familiar mas de la mitad de mi vida y ya voy a cumplir 52 anos. Empece cuando no habia computadoras. Lo he dejado a veces por atender a la salud de mi familia pero siempre regreso. los primeros anos hice muchos errores. Gracias a mis tantas errores se donde buscar y corregir los errores de los demas. Aprendi bien de mis errores. a la gente que apenas van empesando va ser mas facil por las computadoras pero le doy gracias que empece hace mucho por la experencia que me ayuda encontrar hilos.
________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Fri 2/20/2009 7:48 PM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos o quintos

Hola R.A.Ricci ayer me la pasé buscando el matrimonio de Manuel Marín de Peñaloza y Teresa de Alba que tengo de 22 de sep 1718 en Teocaltiche, pero no la encuentro, es mas, ni en el IGI encontré matrimonios en esa fecha, no se ni de donde la saqué, algo raro.

En cuanto a la información que me pides de José Antonio de Covarrubias e Ines de Guadalupe Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza, tengo que José Antonio fue bautizado el 13 de junio de 1726 en Cuquío, hijo de José de Covarrubias y Leonor Sánchez de Porras. Ines bautizada el 02 de febrero de 1723 en Jalostotitlán, hija de Gregorio Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza y Luisa Padilla Dávila.

Me gustaría saber tu ascendencia en las ramas que tenemos en común, y en cuanto a los descendientes de Salvador Ignacio Ramírez de Hermosillo y María Josefa de San Leonardo Martín del Campo, es la rama de mas interés para mi, ya que es mi primer apellido el Ramírez. Además de que desciendo de manera directa de 4 hijos de Salvador y Josefa. Tengo 12 hijos de este matrimonio.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

Hola Ricci, de los Sánchez de Porras que preguntas tengo lo siguiente:

Catalina es hija de Dionisio Sánchez de Porras y Nicolasa Galván de Rojas. Dionisio es hijo de Jerónimo Sánchez de Porras y Leonor González de Hermosillo. Jerónimo es hijo de Diego Sánchez de Porras y Elvira Sánchez.

Leonor Sánchez de Porras es hija de Alejandro Sánchez de Porras y Francisca Álvarez de Luna. Alejandro es hijo de Jerónimo y Leonor, antes mencionados.

En cuanto a los Casillas que mencionas yo también sigo la misma línea que tu, la de José Tomás Casillas y Cabrera y María Gertrudis Salgado de la Paz. Ya había notado que otros manejan otra línea, además de que en el libro de Don Mariano González Leal así lo dice, pero yo sigo la misma línea que tu.

José Tomás es hijo Juan Manuel Casillas y Cabrera y Juana María Valdivia, casados en Jalostotitlán el 23 de junio de 1726, pero hasta ahí tengo porque no he revisado esa acta.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

No es la primera vez que he encontrado un error en el libro de Mariano Gonzalez Leal. Pero el y Jaime Holcombe son los "mejores" genealogos en nuestras familias. Ellos han hecho mucho trabajo y bien hecho. aunque son los mejores yo trato de revisar y analizar todo porque es muy facil hacer un error por estar cansado de tanto trabajar. La genealogia es mucho trabajo si lo haces bien. La gente que apenas empesaron a estudiar sus familias no saben todo lo que han tenido que trabajar los genealogos antes de la computadora. Si yo hubiera empesado hace poquitos anos no sabria donde y que buscar por la materia mas complicada.

José Tomás Casillas y Cabrera y María Gertrudis Salgado de la Paz vivian con nuestras familias y los otros vivian mas lejos. Los Villalpando era tambien de la misma area y los otro villalpando era de mas lejos. La otra linea no va con lo que me informo el abuelo del Chirol, que en paz descanse. Cuando yo lo conoci hace muchos anos el era muy viejo pero todavia tenia buena memoria y me platicaba mucho.

de serapia perez y nicolas ramirez he encontrado que nicolas era un octavo indio. su bisabuelo ramirez era completamente indio. si agustin ramirez es hijo de jose geronimo ramirez y juana luna y tapia ,el es indio porque los dos padres son indios segun la acta de matrimonio de esta pareja.

tambien encontre la acta en la computadora de unos tatara abuelos de serapia perez que se llaman Nicolas lomelin y casilda de los dolores gonzales. se casaron el 6/feb/1746 segun familysearch rollo#0280893. No pude encontrar la acta. estaba cansado y tenia poco tiempo pero de todos modos no entiendo por que no lo encontre.

donde no he tenido ningun resultado es en clemente de la torre y maria de la torre padres de jose maria de la torre esposo de Maria eusevia Martin ( hija de Manuel Ignacio Martin del campo Franco y Maria del rosario Barba casillas)
Tambien no encuentro datos sobre Ygnacio Xavier de La torre y su esposa Maria Rufina Alderete padres de maria antonia de las dolores De la torre alderete . antonia de la torre es abuela paterna de serapia perez gomez esposa de nicolas ramirez
Gracias por compartir primo,
Ricci

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Thu 2/26/2009 7:40 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Hola Ricci, de los Sánchez de Porras que preguntas tengo lo siguiente:

Catalina es hija de Dionisio Sánchez de Porras y Nicolasa Galván de Rojas. Dionisio es hijo de Jerónimo Sánchez de Porras y Leonor González de Hermosillo. Jerónimo es hijo de Diego Sánchez de Porras y Elvira Sánchez.

Leonor Sánchez de Porras es hija de Alejandro Sánchez de Porras y Francisca Álvarez de Luna. Alejandro es hijo de Jerónimo y Leonor, antes mencionados.

En cuanto a los Casillas que mencionas yo también sigo la misma línea que tu, la de José Tomás Casillas y Cabrera y María Gertrudis Salgado de la Paz. Ya había notado que otros manejan otra línea, además de que en el libro de Don Mariano González Leal así lo dice, pero yo sigo la misma línea que tu.

José Tomás es hijo Juan Manuel Casillas y Cabrera y Juana María Valdivia, casados en Jalostotitlán el 23 de junio de 1726, pero hasta ahí tengo porque no he revisado esa acta.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

Todos tenemos errores en nuestros trabajos, lo importante es saber reconocerlos y corregirlos, yo en mis investigaciones también me he encontrado con problemas así, pero trato de corregirlos.

En cuanto al trabajo de Jaime Holcombe lo desconozco, el que si conozco es el de Mariano González Leal, una gran obra, muy completa. A el lo conozco personalmente y es una persona muy amable y atenta, un ejemplo a seguir en muchos aspectos.

Nicolás Lomelí y Casilda de los Dolores González casaron en Ocotlán el 06 de febrero de 1746, pero no he revisado el acta.

Yo tampoco encuentro información de Clemente de la Torre Ledezma y María Alejandra de la Torre Ledezma, padres de José María.

Ignacio Javier de la Torre Ledezma y María Rufina Aldrete García casaron en Tepatitlán el 24 de octubre de 1770. El es hijo de Juan Antonio Cruz de la Torre Ledezma y María de la Concepción Ramírez de Hermosillo; ella es hija de Pedro Pastor Aldrete de la Mora y Juana Antonia Ramírez García.

Y es un gusto compartir, ya que a mi también me gusta que me ayuden en lo que no he podido seguir y cada que recibo ayuda de alguien me siento tan bien, que también quiero compartir lo que tengo.

Solo tengo una duda en lo que me dices que Nicolás Lomelí y Casilda de los Dolores son ancestros de Serapia, y me gustaría saber en que forma se conectan.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

La madre de serapia es maria del refugio gomez gomez

el padre de maria del refugio es Juan Jose Gomez Suazo Carmona

La madre de Juan Jose es Maria casilda de los dolores Carmona Suazo y Lomelin

La madre de dolores es Maria Paula Petrona Lomelin y Gonzalez

Los padres de Paula Lomelin son Nicolas Lomelin y Casilda de los Dolores Gonzalez

Creo que se quienes son los padres, abuelos y bisabuelos de Nicolas pero necesito esa acta para comprobarlo
no quiero nombrar esa informacion hasta que este comprobado.
Gracias, ricci

P.S.Tengo fechas y mas datos sobre esta gente que te mando despues

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Thu 2/26/2009 9:43 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Todos tenemos errores en nuestros trabajos, lo importante es saber reconocerlos y corregirlos, yo en mis investigaciones también me he encontrado con problemas así, pero trato de corregirlos.

En cuanto al trabajo de Jaime Holcombe lo desconozco, el que si conozco es el de Mariano González Leal, una gran obra, muy completa. A el lo conozco personalmente y es una persona muy amable y atenta, un ejemplo a seguir en muchos aspectos.

Nicolás Lomelí y Casilda de los Dolores González casaron en Ocotlán el 06 de febrero de 1746, pero no he revisado el acta.

Yo tampoco encuentro información de Clemente de la Torre Ledezma y María Alejandra de la Torre Ledezma, padres de José María.

Ignacio Javier de la Torre Ledezma y María Rufina Aldrete García casaron en Tepatitlán el 24 de octubre de 1770. El es hijo de Juan Antonio Cruz de la Torre Ledezma y María de la Concepción Ramírez de Hermosillo; ella es hija de Pedro Pastor Aldrete de la Mora y Juana Antonia Ramírez García.

Y es un gusto compartir, ya que a mi también me gusta que me ayuden en lo que no he podido seguir y cada que recibo ayuda de alguien me siento tan bien, que también quiero compartir lo que tengo.

Solo tengo una duda en lo que me dices que Nicolás Lomelí y Casilda de los Dolores son ancestros de Serapia, y me gustaría saber en que forma se conectan.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

Gracias Ricci, no te molestes en mandarme la información de los Lomelí y familia, mejor mándame lo que tengas de los Ramírez de Hermosillo, es lo que mas me interesa, todo sobre ésta familia es importante para mí, ya que tengo pensado editar un libro sobre la familia, con datos genealógicos, biografías, fotografías, testamentos, intestamentarias, ý demás.

Hace unos días me comentaste que tenías informaciones matrimoniales de algunos hijos de Salvador Ramírez y Josefa Martín, y me interesó mucho obtener esos documentos. Podrás proporcionarme esos documentos.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

Yo te doy todo sobre esta familia. Yo estaba pensando hacer ese mismo libro pero mejor te doy toda mi informacion para asistir en ese libro de los ramirez. Muchos de la gente aqui en california descendemos de esa pareja. Tengo mucha informacion. voy a empesar a juntar estos datos. creo que te los voy a tener que mandar por correo regular.

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Thu 2/26/2009 10:29 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Gracias Ricci, no te molestes en mandarme la información de los Lomelí y familia, mejor mándame lo que tengas de los Ramírez de Hermosillo, es lo que mas me interesa, todo sobre ésta familia es importante para mí, ya que tengo pensado editar un libro sobre la familia, con datos genealógicos, biografías, fotografías, testamentos, intestamentarias, ý demás.

Hace unos días me comentaste que tenías informaciones matrimoniales de algunos hijos de Salvador Ramírez y Josefa Martín, y me interesó mucho obtener esos documentos. Podrás proporcionarme esos documentos.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

_________________________________________________________________
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Comentario

Cuál es tu primer apellido? Se me hace curioso que quieras editar un libro sobre los Ramírez sin apellidar Ramírez. También he pensado en editar el de Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza por ser mi segundo apellido, pero creo que será un trabajo mas duro que el de los Ramírez; si de por sí ya llevo muchísima información de la familia Ramírez de Hermosillo he batallado un poco, porque es una familia muy extendida en San Miguel, Jalos, Tepa, Teocaltiche, León, Guadalajara, Jalapa, y en USA, pero poco a poco he obtenido mucha información.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

La rason que yo queria ser un libro de los descendientes de salvador y josefa es porque es la pareja de parentesco de muchos de mis conocidos del valle que viven aqui en los angeles. es la rama tambien que se junta con mis amigos/primos lejanos Padilla martin de santa monica y los rodriguez garcia tambien de santa monica y muchos de los francos, ademas de muchos primos segundos que se apellidan ramirez.
Tienes la fecha de nscimiento o de bautizo de josefa?
Ricci

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Thu 2/26/2009 2:53 PM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Cuál es tu primer apellido? Se me hace curioso que quieras editar un libro sobre los Ramírez sin apellidar Ramírez. También he pensado en editar el de Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza por ser mi segundo apellido, pero creo que será un trabajo mas duro que el de los Ramírez; si de por sí ya llevo muchísima información de la familia Ramírez de Hermosillo he batallado un poco, porque es una familia muy extendida en San Miguel, Jalos, Tepa, Teocaltiche, León, Guadalajara, Jalapa, y en USA, pero poco a poco he obtenido mucha información.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

_________________________________________________________________
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Comentario

Yo tengo la informacion de los alderete y de la mora zamora
Tambien tengo la informacion de juan antonio de la cruz de la torre pero no de su esposa no mas la tengo nombrada como Juana Antonia Garcia. de donde viene lo Ramirez? Tienes a sus padres?
Gracias, ricci

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Thu 2/26/2009 9:43 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Todos tenemos errores en nuestros trabajos, lo importante es saber reconocerlos y corregirlos, yo en mis investigaciones también me he encontrado con problemas así, pero trato de corregirlos.

En cuanto al trabajo de Jaime Holcombe lo desconozco, el que si conozco es el de Mariano González Leal, una gran obra, muy completa. A el lo conozco personalmente y es una persona muy amable y atenta, un ejemplo a seguir en muchos aspectos.

Nicolás Lomelí y Casilda de los Dolores González casaron en Ocotlán el 06 de febrero de 1746, pero no he revisado el acta.

Yo tampoco encuentro información de Clemente de la Torre Ledezma y María Alejandra de la Torre Ledezma, padres de José María.

Ignacio Javier de la Torre Ledezma y María Rufina Aldrete García casaron en Tepatitlán el 24 de octubre de 1770. El es hijo de Juan Antonio Cruz de la Torre Ledezma y María de la Concepción Ramírez de Hermosillo; ella es hija de Pedro Pastor Aldrete de la Mora y Juana Antonia Ramírez García.

Y es un gusto compartir, ya que a mi también me gusta que me ayuden en lo que no he podido seguir y cada que recibo ayuda de alguien me siento tan bien, que también quiero compartir lo que tengo.

Solo tengo una duda en lo que me dices que Nicolás Lomelí y Casilda de los Dolores son ancestros de Serapia, y me gustaría saber en que forma se conectan.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

_________________________________________________________________
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Comentario

Muchos del valle descendemos de las muchas hijas de jose de santiago aceves y Juana de san juana o Maria de san Juan Padilla hija de Francisco Padilla y josefa

De francisco Padilla y josefa no tengo mas informacion

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Thu 2/26/2009 11:08 AM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Yo tengo la informacion de los alderete y de la mora zamora
Tambien tengo la informacion de juan antonio de la cruz de la torre pero no de su esposa no mas la tengo nombrada como Juana Antonia Garcia. de donde viene lo Ramirez? Tienes a sus padres?
Gracias, ricci

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Thu 2/26/2009 9:43 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Todos tenemos errores en nuestros trabajos, lo importante es saber reconocerlos y corregirlos, yo en mis investigaciones también me he encontrado con problemas así, pero trato de corregirlos.

En cuanto al trabajo de Jaime Holcombe lo desconozco, el que si conozco es el de Mariano González Leal, una gran obra, muy completa. A el lo conozco personalmente y es una persona muy amable y atenta, un ejemplo a seguir en muchos aspectos.

Nicolás Lomelí y Casilda de los Dolores González casaron en Ocotlán el 06 de febrero de 1746, pero no he revisado el acta.

Yo tampoco encuentro información de Clemente de la Torre Ledezma y María Alejandra de la Torre Ledezma, padres de José María.

Ignacio Javier de la Torre Ledezma y María Rufina Aldrete García casaron en Tepatitlán el 24 de octubre de 1770. El es hijo de Juan Antonio Cruz de la Torre Ledezma y María de la Concepción Ramírez de Hermosillo; ella es hija de Pedro Pastor Aldrete de la Mora y Juana Antonia Ramírez García.

Y es un gusto compartir, ya que a mi también me gusta que me ayuden en lo que no he podido seguir y cada que recibo ayuda de alguien me siento tan bien, que también quiero compartir lo que tengo.

Solo tengo una duda en lo que me dices que Nicolás Lomelí y Casilda de los Dolores son ancestros de Serapia, y me gustaría saber en que forma se conectan.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

_________________________________________________________________
Ya conoces el nuevo Messenger? Descúbrelo.
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Comentario

Hola Ricci, me gustaría saber si éste José de Santiago de Aceves es el que yo tengo como José Policarpio de Aceves, quien casó con María de San Juan Padilla? Si es así, no tengo información de ellos, también he estado investigando sobre ellos, pero no encuentro nada.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

Muchos del valle descendemos de las muchas hijas de jose de santiago aceves y Juana de san juana o Maria de san Juan Padilla hija de Francisco Padilla y josefa De francisco Padilla y josefa no tengo mas informacion

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Comentario

Platicame mas de tu jose policarpio de aseves. de quien es papa. quienes son sus padres. el jose de santiago aseves que yo tengo es nuestro tatara abuelo. tu desciendos de esta pareja. yo si tengo informacionde los padres y abuelos de jose santiago. reecibi la parte del padre de jaime hjolcombe y yo descubri la parte de la madre y esa informacion la di hace unos dias cuando estaba buscando mas informacion sobre los aguilar solorzano y araiza.
si tengo mas informacion sobre Francisco Padilla y josefa pero no lo he combrado todavia. La informacion que intengo es de un francisco padilla casado con una josefa en este tiempo y lugar pero no he confirmado que ellos son necesito sacar una acta para confirmalo y se de cuatro actas que lo podrian confirmar. Yo preguntaba por si alguien ya lo hubiera confirmado.

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 7:39 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Hola Ricci, me gustaría saber si éste José de Santiago de Aceves es el que yo tengo como José Policarpio de Aceves, quien casó con María de San Juan Padilla? Si es así, no tengo información de ellos, también he estado investigando sobre ellos, pero no encuentro nada.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

Muchos del valle descendemos de las muchas hijas de jose de santiago aceves y Juana de san juana o Maria de san Juan Padilla hija de Francisco Padilla y josefa De francisco Padilla y josefa no tengo mas informacion

_________________________________________________________________
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Comentario

Jorge Luis and ricardo rodriguez will be happy to learn that I was correct about the casillas villalpando error in all the genealogy books that I have seen. I have proven that the correct casillas villalpando couple was the one from Jalos. Repeat this has been confirmed.
I see a genealogy posted by one of our nuestros rancho members that has at least 2 major errors I have tried to contact him but he has not returned emails. I have comfirmed these errors. I do not want to harass anyone so if i email you to communicate and you do not respond i will stop at least by the third time. I do not contact people to tell them they are in error if it is just difference of an opinion . If I tell them they are in error it is because I have confirmed the error through primary sources.
I would hope that anyone finding me in error would contact me and stop me from continuing on in the wrong direction.
If you do not want to look, analyze, and respond to what you post just drop me an email and tell me to chill.

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 3:07 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Platicame mas de tu jose policarpio de aseves. de quien es papa. quienes son sus padres. el jose de santiago aseves que yo tengo es nuestro tatara abuelo. tu desciendos de esta pareja. yo si tengo informacionde los padres y abuelos de jose santiago. reecibi la parte del padre de jaime hjolcombe y yo descubri la parte de la madre y esa informacion la di hace unos dias cuando estaba buscando mas informacion sobre los aguilar solorzano y araiza.
si tengo mas informacion sobre Francisco Padilla y josefa pero no lo he combrado todavia. La informacion que intengo es de un francisco padilla casado con una josefa en este tiempo y lugar pero no he confirmado que ellos son necesito sacar una acta para confirmalo y se de cuatro actas que lo podrian confirmar. Yo preguntaba por si alguien ya lo hubiera confirmado.

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 7:39 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Hola Ricci, me gustaría saber si éste José de Santiago de Aceves es el que yo tengo como José Policarpio de Aceves, quien casó con María de San Juan Padilla? Si es así, no tengo información de ellos, también he estado investigando sobre ellos, pero no encuentro nada.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

Muchos del valle descendemos de las muchas hijas de jose de santiago aceves y Juana de san juana o Maria de san Juan Padilla hija de Francisco Padilla y josefa De francisco Padilla y josefa no tengo mas informacion

_________________________________________________________________
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Comentario

francisco casillas villalpando married to lorenza Gutierrez Martiin 25/feb/1811in Tepa lists his parents as jose maria casillas and lugarda villalpando There are two Couples by this name married in 1788 and every genealogist that has written a book that i have read has mistakenly listd the wrong couple. I have confirmed that the jose maria casillas salgado ( son of jose thomas casillas and juana maria valdivia) and Leoguarda Manuela Villalpando Barba (daughter of salvador anastacio (Antonino) Villalpando and Josefa gertrudis Margarita Barba Vallejo) is the correct couple. I had not been able to confirm it until now .

I can not count how many times I do a favor for some else by helping them with their genealogy that results in me finding something that adds to my personal tree. That was the case here. my niece amy asked me the day before yesterday about her dads tree. He is casillas from pegueros. I explained to her that her mother,( my sister) and her father were distant cousins from the information given to us when they married. I showed her what I had of his tree but it was far from complete and mainly showed a couple of his other lines but not the casillas except for a few generations. I worked on his casillas line which came up with the evidence that his great great great grandmother ana juana casillas villalpando was the daughter of Jose maria casillas salgado and leogarda manuela villalpando barba.
this is solid evidence that her brother francisco casillas villalpando descends from the jalos line of jose maria casillas salgado and leogarda manuela villalpando Barba.

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 6:25 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] genealogy errors

Jorge Luis and ricardo rodriguez will be happy to learn that I was correct about the casillas villalpando error in all the genealogy books that I have seen. I have proven that the correct casillas villalpando couple was the one from Jalos. Repeat this has been confirmed.
I see a genealogy posted by one of our nuestros rancho members that has at least 2 major errors I have tried to contact him but he has not returned emails. I have comfirmed these errors. I do not want to harass anyone so if i email you to communicate and you do not respond i will stop at least by the third time. I do not contact people to tell them they are in error if it is just difference of an opinion . If I tell them they are in error it is because I have confirmed the error through primary sources.
I would hope that anyone finding me in error would contact me and stop me from continuing on in the wrong direction.
If you do not want to look, analyze, and respond to what you post just drop me an email and tell me to chill.

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 3:07 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Platicame mas de tu jose policarpio de aseves. de quien es papa. quienes son sus padres. el jose de santiago aseves que yo tengo es nuestro tatara abuelo. tu desciendos de esta pareja. yo si tengo informacionde los padres y abuelos de jose santiago. reecibi la parte del padre de jaime hjolcombe y yo descubri la parte de la madre y esa informacion la di hace unos dias cuando estaba buscando mas informacion sobre los aguilar solorzano y araiza.
si tengo mas informacion sobre Francisco Padilla y josefa pero no lo he combrado todavia. La informacion que intengo es de un francisco padilla casado con una josefa en este tiempo y lugar pero no he confirmado que ellos son necesito sacar una acta para confirmalo y se de cuatro actas que lo podrian confirmar. Yo preguntaba por si alguien ya lo hubiera confirmado.

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 7:39 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Hola Ricci, me gustaría saber si éste José de Santiago de Aceves es el que yo tengo como José Policarpio de Aceves, quien casó con María de San Juan Padilla? Si es así, no tengo información de ellos, también he estado investigando sobre ellos, pero no encuentro nada.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

Muchos del valle descendemos de las muchas hijas de jose de santiago aceves y Juana de san juana o Maria de san Juan Padilla hija de Francisco Padilla y josefa De francisco Padilla y josefa no tengo mas informacion

_________________________________________________________________
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Comentario

Hi tocayo, can you please tell us what these two dates are so we can compare
our notes with yours? I have Jose Thomas Casillas and Maria Gertrudis
Salgado as Jose Maria Casillas Salgado's parents, and Salvador de
Villalpando and Josefa Margarita Muñoz de la Barba as Maria Lugarda's
parents (film # 279298). I have Jose Maria and Maria Lugarda's marriage date
as May 7, 1788 in Jalos, they were both from Catachimé, close to Cañadas de
Obregón.

Thanks

Rick

Comentario

That is correct. most genealogy books have the jose maria Casillas married to lugarda villalpando from ayo el chico/arandas as the parents. both couples married in 1788.Even you had that info until I told you that I speculated that it was wrong based on the info I had but that I did not have proof. I have that proof now. the other Jose maria casillas was the son of Jose de san Ramon Casillas and Magdalena Gonzalez Hermosillo

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricardo Rodriguez
Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 8:04 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] genealogy errors

Hi tocayo, can you please tell us what these two dates are so we can compare
our notes with yours? I have Jose Thomas Casillas and Maria Gertrudis
Salgado as Jose Maria Casillas Salgado's parents, and Salvador de
Villalpando and Josefa Margarita Muñoz de la Barba as Maria Lugarda's
parents (film # 279298). I have Jose Maria and Maria Lugarda's marriage date
as May 7, 1788 in Jalos, they were both from Catachimé, close to Cañadas de
Obregón.

Thanks

Rick

Comentario

Rick, I'm confused, you mentioned the parents of Jose Maria Casillas Salgado as Jose Thomas Casillas and Juana Maria Valdivia yet Ricardo has the mother as Maria Gertrudis Salgado??
----- Original Message -----
From: Ricci, Richard
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] genealogy errors

That is correct. most genealogy books have the jose maria Casillas married to lugarda villalpando from ayo el chico/arandas as the parents. both couples married in 1788.Even you had that info until I told you that I speculated that it was wrong based on the info I had but that I did not have proof. I have that proof now. the other Jose maria casillas was the son of Jose de san Ramon Casillas and Magdalena Gonzalez Hermosillo

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricardo Rodriguez
Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 8:04 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] genealogy errors

Hi tocayo, can you please tell us what these two dates are so we can compare
our notes with yours? I have Jose Thomas Casillas and Maria Gertrudis
Salgado as Jose Maria Casillas Salgado's parents, and Salvador de
Villalpando and Josefa Margarita Muñoz de la Barba as Maria Lugarda's
parents (film # 279298). I have Jose Maria and Maria Lugarda's marriage date
as May 7, 1788 in Jalos, they were both from Catachimé, close to Cañadas de
Obregón.

Thanks

Rick

Comentario

i would like to communicate any casillas that is related to Victoria casillas and virginia gutierrez de casillas.
I used to visit Virginia Gutierrez de Casillas and her daughter Amparo and have long conversations with them.
Amparo Casillas and Virginia Gutierrez de casillas gave me a lot of their family information and I recorded all of it. They were very happy to see me follow up on the information extend their lines. I provided them copies of my work on their family. Unfortunately, the casillas villalpando errror that is repeated in all the books is in the work that I gave them. I would like to help them with the corrected work that I have on their family.

Virginia Gutierrez de Casillas and her daughter Amparo Casillas were good friends to second cousins of mine and their mother who was my father's first cousin. They introduced me to one of my second cousins who comes from my branch of the family that went to mexico city. Their mother was married(his 2nd marriage) to the general and mayor of mexico city Alfonso corona del rosal. Because of virgina and amparos efforts I was able to connect with this side of the family. I had originally been given their phone number by some else in the family but I was too shy to contact them without an introduction from someone. Later, while visiting a sister in Mexico, my sister told me that she knew and had the phone number to their grandmother, my paternal grandfathers sister. I called her up and had wonderful conversations with her. She provided much information on the family. I am deeply indebted to the casillas family for being the first to bring me into contact with these relatives.

When my grandfather first came to the united states at the age of 17 he stayed with the casillas family. When I bought my second house I lived in front of one of the casillas. Two houses down was another casillas family. One of my family's genealogy secrets has to do with a connection between the franco family to the casillas family.

m: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 7:21 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] genealogy errors

francisco casillas villalpando married to lorenza Gutierrez Martiin 25/feb/1811in Tepa lists his parents as jose maria casillas and lugarda villalpando There are two Couples by this name married in 1788 and every genealogist that has written a book that i have read has mistakenly listd the wrong couple. I have confirmed that the jose maria casillas salgado ( son of jose thomas casillas and juana maria valdivia) and Leoguarda Manuela Villalpando Barba (daughter of salvador anastacio (Antonino) Villalpando and Josefa gertrudis Margarita Barba Vallejo) is the correct couple. I had not been able to confirm it until now .

I can not count how many times I do a favor for some else by helping them with their genealogy that results in me finding something that adds to my personal tree. That was the case here. my niece amy asked me the day before yesterday about her dads tree. He is casillas from pegueros. I explained to her that her mother,( my sister) and her father were distant cousins from the information given to us when they married. I showed her what I had of his tree but it was far from complete and mainly showed a couple of his other lines but not the casillas except for a few generations. I worked on his casillas line which came up with the evidence that his great great great grandmother ana juana casillas villalpando was the daughter of Jose maria casillas salgado and leogarda manuela villalpando barba.
this is solid evidence that her brother francisco casillas villalpando descends from the jalos line of jose maria casillas salgado and leogarda manuela villalpando Barba.

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 6:25 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] genealogy errors

Jorge Luis and ricardo rodriguez will be happy to learn that I was correct about the casillas villalpando error in all the genealogy books that I have seen. I have proven that the correct casillas villalpando couple was the one from Jalos. Repeat this has been confirmed.
I see a genealogy posted by one of our nuestros rancho members that has at least 2 major errors I have tried to contact him but he has not returned emails. I have comfirmed these errors. I do not want to harass anyone so if i email you to communicate and you do not respond i will stop at least by the third time. I do not contact people to tell them they are in error if it is just difference of an opinion . If I tell them they are in error it is because I have confirmed the error through primary sources.
I would hope that anyone finding me in error would contact me and stop me from continuing on in the wrong direction.
If you do not want to look, analyze, and respond to what you post just drop me an email and tell me to chill.

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 3:07 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Platicame mas de tu jose policarpio de aseves. de quien es papa. quienes son sus padres. el jose de santiago aseves que yo tengo es nuestro tatara abuelo. tu desciendos de esta pareja. yo si tengo informacionde los padres y abuelos de jose santiago. reecibi la parte del padre de jaime hjolcombe y yo descubri la parte de la madre y esa informacion la di hace unos dias cuando estaba buscando mas informacion sobre los aguilar solorzano y araiza.
si tengo mas informacion sobre Francisco Padilla y josefa pero no lo he combrado todavia. La informacion que intengo es de un francisco padilla casado con una josefa en este tiempo y lugar pero no he confirmado que ellos son necesito sacar una acta para confirmalo y se de cuatro actas que lo podrian confirmar. Yo preguntaba por si alguien ya lo hubiera confirmado.

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 7:39 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Hola Ricci, me gustaría saber si éste José de Santiago de Aceves es el que yo tengo como José Policarpio de Aceves, quien casó con María de San Juan Padilla? Si es así, no tengo información de ellos, también he estado investigando sobre ellos, pero no encuentro nada.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

Muchos del valle descendemos de las muchas hijas de jose de santiago aceves y Juana de san juana o Maria de san Juan Padilla hija de Francisco Padilla y josefa De francisco Padilla y josefa no tengo mas informacion

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Comentario

Tengo a siete hijo de José Policarpio de Aceves y María de San Juan Padilla:

1.- María de Jesús, mujer de Juan José Ramírez Gutiérrez.

2.- José Coronado de los Dolores.

3.- María Margarita, mujer de Eusebio Franco Gómez.

4.- María Vicenta de la Merced, mujer de José María Barba.

5.- María Paula, mujer Pablo Ignacio Gómez Gómez, y de Gabriel Franco Cárdenas en segundas nupcias.

6.- Anastasio, esposo de María Lorenza Franco Rodríguez.

7.- Nepomucena, mujer de Gerardo Gómez Pérez.

No se, pero creo que hablamos de la misma persona.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

Son los mismos pero hay poquitas diferencias en nuestra informacion.
Yo tengo como esposo de Maria de san juan padilla con el nombre de Jose Santiago Saines pero entiendo porque la diferencia. Santiago no es medio nombre pero parte del apellido por su madre
Jose (Policarpio) Saines de Santiago lo tengo como bautizado 6/aug/1775 en san juan de los lagos y hijo de Luis salvador aceves y maria gertrudis Saines de Santiago tengo mas informacion sobre antepasados
Tambien tengo mas hijos y fechas. Yo tengo a 9 hijos
A Vicenta yo la tengo como Maria Victoria de la Merced
De los padres de Maria de san juan Padilla no mas tengo confirmado que el se llamaba Francisco Padilla y ella josefa pero creo que he encontrado sus antepasados pero necesito confirmalos.

De los antepasados de maria serapia perez gomez:
Parece ser que Juan Climaco Suazo Carmona tuvo dos hijas llamadas Dolores y yo estaba investigando casilda de los dolores Suazo lomelin cuando serapia perez ahora parece descender de Maria DoloresSuazo Belasquez Una es hija de la primera esposa y lo otra de la segunda. La suazo lomelin no mas tenia 12 anos cuando se caso dolores Suazo con Juan Lucas Gomez Voy a sacar la acta de matrimonio juan lucas gomez y dolores Suazo para confirmar de cual esposa desciende.
________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 7:17 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Tengo a siete hijo de José Policarpio de Aceves y María de San Juan Padilla:

1.- María de Jesús, mujer de Juan José Ramírez Gutiérrez.

2.- José Coronado de los Dolores.

3.- María Margarita, mujer de Eusebio Franco Gómez.

4.- María Vicenta de la Merced, mujer de José María Barba.

5.- María Paula, mujer Pablo Ignacio Gómez Gómez, y de Gabriel Franco Cárdenas en segundas nupcias.

6.- Anastasio, esposo de María Lorenza Franco Rodríguez.

7.- Nepomucena, mujer de Gerardo Gómez Pérez.

No se, pero creo que hablamos de la misma persona.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

Ahora veo la diferencia, y si debe ser por el apellido Sainez de Santiago.

En cuanto a lo de María de los Dolores Suazo y Carmona, ahora que lo dices comparé la información y si debe ser hija del primer matrimonio, ya que sería muy chica para casar de 7 años (asi lo tengo yo) si fuera María Casilda de los Dolores la del segundo matrimonio.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

Fue por esa misma informacion, la edad de la Maria casilda de los dolores,que pense que tenia que revisar la informacion

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 10:20 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Ahora veo la diferencia, y si debe ser por el apellido Sainez de Santiago.

En cuanto a lo de María de los Dolores Suazo y Carmona, ahora que lo dices comparé la información y si debe ser hija del primer matrimonio, ya que sería muy chica para casar de 7 años (asi lo tengo yo) si fuera María Casilda de los Dolores la del segundo matrimonio.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

Yo no tenia dos:
Nepumucena
Anastacio
Tu no tienes cuatro:
Maria Antonia
Mariana
Ma. Ygnacia
Ma. de san Juan
Entonces hay once hijos ahora de jose Policarpio Aceves Saines de Santiago y de maria de san juan Padilla

Creo que francisco Padilla y josefa podrian ser Francisco gerardo Padilla Parada y Josefa Robles de Villa pero no he confirmado esto. ellos son del tiempo y de la area pero nesecito ver todas las actas de bautismo para haber que dicen sobre sus abuelos.
________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 7:17 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Tengo a siete hijo de José Policarpio de Aceves y María de San Juan Padilla:

1.- María de Jesús, mujer de Juan José Ramírez Gutiérrez.

2.- José Coronado de los Dolores.

3.- María Margarita, mujer de Eusebio Franco Gómez.

4.- María Vicenta de la Merced, mujer de José María Barba.

5.- María Paula, mujer Pablo Ignacio Gómez Gómez, y de Gabriel Franco Cárdenas en segundas nupcias.

6.- Anastasio, esposo de María Lorenza Franco Rodríguez.

7.- Nepomucena, mujer de Gerardo Gómez Pérez.

No se, pero creo que hablamos de la misma persona.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

Veré que puedo encontrar sobre ellos, trataré de seguir investigando esas personas.

Por cierto, desde el otro día quería preguntarte si tienes información del matrimonio de Felipe Lozano y Gertrudis Mercado, quienes debieron casar aprox. en 1740 mas o menos en Tepatitlán o San Juan de los Lagos.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

Y o tengo a un felipe Lozano que podria ser padre o abuelo del felipe lozano a quien buscas
Felipe Lozano, nacido en 1684 en Tepatitlan, hijo de Fulgencio Lozano y Juana Casillas cabrera casado con : Feliciana Ruiz de Velasco aceves, hija de Juan jose Aceves hermosillo y Luisa Magdalena Ruiz de Velasco( padre de luisa Cristobal hernandez gamino y Maria Ruiz de Velasco)

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 10:49 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Veré que puedo encontrar sobre ellos, trataré de seguir investigando esas personas.

Por cierto, desde el otro día quería preguntarte si tienes información del matrimonio de Felipe Lozano y Gertrudis Mercado, quienes debieron casar aprox. en 1740 mas o menos en Tepatitlán o San Juan de los Lagos.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

José de Covarrubias, esposo de Leonor Sánchez de Porras es hijo de José de Covarrubias y Leonor de Hermosillo. Ya no tengo mas datos de los Covarrubias, y Leonor de Hermosillo es hija de Pedro Franco de Paredes y Leonor de Hermosillo.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

Se me hizo curiouso la esposa de anastacio. es ella hija de jose maria nestor franco rodriguez y polonia rodriguez orosco? Creo que IGI esta mal en nombrar lo Nicolas Franco
y que informacion tienes sobre gerardo gomez perez?

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 10:44 AM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Yo no tenia dos:
Nepumucena
Anastacio
Tu no tienes cuatro:
Maria Antonia
Mariana
Ma. Ygnacia
Ma. de san Juan
Entonces hay once hijos ahora de jose Policarpio Aceves Saines de Santiago y de maria de san juan Padilla

Creo que francisco Padilla y josefa podrian ser Francisco gerardo Padilla Parada y Josefa Robles de Villa pero no he confirmado esto. ellos son del tiempo y de la area pero nesecito ver todas las actas de bautismo para haber que dicen sobre sus abuelos.
________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 7:17 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Tengo a siete hijo de José Policarpio de Aceves y María de San Juan Padilla:

1.- María de Jesús, mujer de Juan José Ramírez Gutiérrez.

2.- José Coronado de los Dolores.

3.- María Margarita, mujer de Eusebio Franco Gómez.

4.- María Vicenta de la Merced, mujer de José María Barba.

5.- María Paula, mujer Pablo Ignacio Gómez Gómez, y de Gabriel Franco Cárdenas en segundas nupcias.

6.- Anastasio, esposo de María Lorenza Franco Rodríguez.

7.- Nepomucena, mujer de Gerardo Gómez Pérez.

No se, pero creo que hablamos de la misma persona.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

Mariana Aceves Padilla esta casada con Juan Jose garcia, hijo deAgustin Garcia y dolores Gutierrez (15/apr/1812) en JALOS
Maria antonia de gpe maria de san juan , y ma. ygnacia aseves padilla no se si se casaron

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 1:07 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Se me hizo curiouso la esposa de anastacio. es ella hija de jose maria nestor franco rodriguez y polonia rodriguez orosco? Creo que IGI esta mal en nombrar lo Nicolas Franco
y que informacion tienes sobre gerardo gomez perez?

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 10:44 AM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Yo no tenia dos:
Nepumucena
Anastacio
Tu no tienes cuatro:
Maria Antonia
Mariana
Ma. Ygnacia
Ma. de san Juan
Entonces hay once hijos ahora de jose Policarpio Aceves Saines de Santiago y de maria de san juan Padilla

Creo que francisco Padilla y josefa podrian ser Francisco gerardo Padilla Parada y Josefa Robles de Villa pero no he confirmado esto. ellos son del tiempo y de la area pero nesecito ver todas las actas de bautismo para haber que dicen sobre sus abuelos.
________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 7:17 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Tengo a siete hijo de José Policarpio de Aceves y María de San Juan Padilla:

1.- María de Jesús, mujer de Juan José Ramírez Gutiérrez.

2.- José Coronado de los Dolores.

3.- María Margarita, mujer de Eusebio Franco Gómez.

4.- María Vicenta de la Merced, mujer de José María Barba.

5.- María Paula, mujer Pablo Ignacio Gómez Gómez, y de Gabriel Franco Cárdenas en segundas nupcias.

6.- Anastasio, esposo de María Lorenza Franco Rodríguez.

7.- Nepomucena, mujer de Gerardo Gómez Pérez.

No se, pero creo que hablamos de la misma persona.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

Necesitas fechas de bautizo y matrimonios en los que ya tenias?

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 1:32 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Mariana Aceves Padilla esta casada con Juan Jose garcia, hijo deAgustin Garcia y dolores Gutierrez (15/apr/1812) en JALOS
Maria antonia de gpe maria de san juan , y ma. ygnacia aseves padilla no se si se casaron

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 1:07 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Se me hizo curiouso la esposa de anastacio. es ella hija de jose maria nestor franco rodriguez y polonia rodriguez orosco? Creo que IGI esta mal en nombrar lo Nicolas Franco
y que informacion tienes sobre gerardo gomez perez?

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 10:44 AM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Yo no tenia dos:
Nepumucena
Anastacio
Tu no tienes cuatro:
Maria Antonia
Mariana
Ma. Ygnacia
Ma. de san Juan
Entonces hay once hijos ahora de jose Policarpio Aceves Saines de Santiago y de maria de san juan Padilla

Creo que francisco Padilla y josefa podrian ser Francisco gerardo Padilla Parada y Josefa Robles de Villa pero no he confirmado esto. ellos son del tiempo y de la area pero nesecito ver todas las actas de bautismo para haber que dicen sobre sus abuelos.
________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 7:17 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Tengo a siete hijo de José Policarpio de Aceves y María de San Juan Padilla:

1.- María de Jesús, mujer de Juan José Ramírez Gutiérrez.

2.- José Coronado de los Dolores.

3.- María Margarita, mujer de Eusebio Franco Gómez.

4.- María Vicenta de la Merced, mujer de José María Barba.

5.- María Paula, mujer Pablo Ignacio Gómez Gómez, y de Gabriel Franco Cárdenas en segundas nupcias.

6.- Anastasio, esposo de María Lorenza Franco Rodríguez.

7.- Nepomucena, mujer de Gerardo Gómez Pérez.

No se, pero creo que hablamos de la misma persona.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

Me falta la fecha de matrimonio de María de Jesús Aceves Padilla con Juan José Ramírez Gutiérrez, y las fechas de nacimiento de María Paula, Anastasio, Nepomucena, Mariana, María Antonia de Guadalupe, María de San Juan y María Ignacia. Solo tengo pocas fechas en ésta familia.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

si es cierto que maria de jesus aceves y juan jose ramirez gutierrez son los padres de los que nombras
es cierto que agustin ramirez y maria francisca Gutierrez tuvieron por lo menos a Juan Jose ramirez gutierrez y a jose maria ramirez gutierrez
es cierto que los padres de agustin ramirez son jose ramirez y juana manuela Luna
es cierto que los padres de Maria Francisca Gutierrez son Jose manuel gutierrez y Maria gertrudis Munoz
Maria Francisca Gutierrez se bautizo el 28 /oct/1756 in san Juan de los Lagos
la acta de jose geronimo ramirez y juana manuela luna y tapia dice que son indios los dos.

Los problemas:
No se encuentran las actas de matrimonio de maria de jesus aceves ni la de agustin con Francisa Gutierrez
Parece mas y mas que Agustin tuvo dos familias y que francisca gutierrez y dolores gutierrez son differentes personas.

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 2:57 PM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Me falta la fecha de matrimonio de María de Jesús Aceves Padilla con Juan José Ramírez Gutiérrez, y las fechas de nacimiento de María Paula, Anastasio, Nepomucena, Mariana, María Antonia de Guadalupe, María de San Juan y María Ignacia. Solo tengo pocas fechas en ésta familia.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

Ahora que lo dices, revisé mi base de datos y creo que estás en lo cierto porque no creo que Agustín Ramírez y María Dolores Gutiérrez hayan esperado casi 20 años para volver a tener otro hijo, ya que José María Ramírez Gutiérrez nació en 1801, y María Benita y Luis Ramírez Gutiérrez casaron en 1802 y 1803 respectivamente.

Además María Benita y Luis aparecen como hijos de María Dolores Gutiérrez, y José María aparece como hijo de María Francisca Gutiérrez lo cual me hace pensar que estás en lo cierto, y son dos personas distintas.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

Lorenza la esposa de Anastasio si es hija de quien mencionas, solo que tengo una diferencia en el apellido de José María Nestor, tu lo tienes como Franco Rodríguez y yo como Franco Cárdenas.

De Gerardo Gómez Pérez tengo que es hijo de Ignacio Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza y María Ignacia Pérez Álvarez.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

perdona que lo escirivi entre medio de dos juntas. tu estas correcto Maria Lorenza, la hija, es la que lleva el apellido franco rodriguez de hijar
________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 2:53 PM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Lorenza la esposa de Anastasio si es hija de quien mencionas, solo que tengo una diferencia en el apellido de José María Nestor, tu lo tienes como Franco Rodríguez y yo como Franco Cárdenas.

De Gerardo Gómez Pérez tengo que es hijo de Ignacio Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza y María Ignacia Pérez Álvarez.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

Juana Antonia Ramírez García es hija de Antonio García de Hermosillo y Ana María Franco de Paredes, y lo Ramírez le viene por que como sabes los García de Hermosillo descienden de los Ramírez de Hermosillo, y en ocasiones aparecen como García y a veces como Ramírez. Pero recuerda que Juana Antonia es esposa de Pedro Aldrete, no de Juan Antonio de la Torre.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

Hola jorge,
pasame tu email para communicar como y a donde te mando los datos rricci@lausd.net
Gracias, Ricci
________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Thu 2/26/2009 2:48 PM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Juana Antonia Ramírez García es hija de Antonio García de Hermosillo y Ana María Franco de Paredes, y lo Ramírez le viene por que como sabes los García de Hermosillo descienden de los Ramírez de Hermosillo, y en ocasiones aparecen como García y a veces como Ramírez. Pero recuerda que Juana Antonia es esposa de Pedro Aldrete, no de Juan Antonio de la Torre.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

Buenas tardes a todos.
Me podrían informar si Don Mariano Gonzalez ya publico la reedición de los
libros Retoños de España en Nueva Galicia que estaba programada para
diciembre pasada. De ser así, donde se pueden conseguir.
Cristóbal Villalobos

-----Mensaje original-----
De: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Jorge Luis
Ramírez Gómez
Enviado el: jueves, 26 de febrero de 2009 11:43 a.m.
Para: Nuestros Ranchos
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Todos tenemos errores en nuestros trabajos, lo importante es saber
reconocerlos y corregirlos, yo en mis investigaciones también me he
encontrado con problemas así, pero trato de corregirlos.

En cuanto al trabajo de Jaime Holcombe lo desconozco, el que si conozco es
el de Mariano González Leal, una gran obra, muy completa. A el lo conozco
personalmente y es una persona muy amable y atenta, un ejemplo a seguir en
muchos aspectos.

Nicolás Lomelí y Casilda de los Dolores González casaron en Ocotlán el 06 de
febrero de 1746, pero no he revisado el acta.

Yo tampoco encuentro información de Clemente de la Torre Ledezma y María
Alejandra de la Torre Ledezma, padres de José María.

Ignacio Javier de la Torre Ledezma y María Rufina Aldrete García casaron en
Tepatitlán el 24 de octubre de 1770. El es hijo de Juan Antonio Cruz de la
Torre Ledezma y María de la Concepción Ramírez de Hermosillo; ella es hija
de Pedro Pastor Aldrete de la Mora y Juana Antonia Ramírez García.

Y es un gusto compartir, ya que a mi también me gusta que me ayuden en lo
que no he podido seguir y cada que recibo ayuda de alguien me siento tan
bien, que también quiero compartir lo que tengo.

Solo tengo una duda en lo que me dices que Nicolás Lomelí y Casilda de los
Dolores son ancestros de Serapia, y me gustaría saber en que forma se
conectan.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

Was Dionicio Sanchez de Porras also married to Francisca Martin del Campo? What was the source of your information below?
----- Original Message -----
From: Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Hola Ricci, de los Sánchez de Porras que preguntas tengo lo siguiente:

Catalina es hija de Dionisio Sánchez de Porras y Nicolasa Galván de Rojas. Dionisio es hijo de Jerónimo Sánchez de Porras y Leonor González de Hermosillo. Jerónimo es hijo de Diego Sánchez de Porras y Elvira Sánchez.

Leonor Sánchez de Porras es hija de Alejandro Sánchez de Porras y Francisca Álvarez de Luna. Alejandro es hijo de Jerónimo y Leonor, antes mencionados.

En cuanto a los Casillas que mencionas yo también sigo la misma línea que tu, la de José Tomás Casillas y Cabrera y María Gertrudis Salgado de la Paz. Ya había notado que otros manejan otra línea, además de que en el libro de Don Mariano González Leal así lo dice, pero yo sigo la misma línea que tu.

José Tomás es hijo Juan Manuel Casillas y Cabrera y Juana María Valdivia, casados en Jalostotitlán el 23 de junio de 1726, pero hasta ahí tengo porque no he revisado esa acta.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comentario

Maria del carmen es mi abuela materna, ella es hija de jose prospero perez y juana ramirez
prospero perez es hijo de jose melquiades perez y maria manuela de la trinidad alvarez franco
Melquiades es hijo de jose maria perez de paredes y Rafalela Ramirez
Rafaela ramirez es hija de Salbador Ygnacio Ramirez de Hermosillo y Gutierrez de Laris Y de Josefa Martin del campo Perez
Yo no sabia que Josefa se llamaba Maria Josefa de san Leonardo, encontraste su act de Bautismo?
yo tengo las ramas de todos menos los antepasados de jose covarrubias
de los hijos de josefa y salvador ygnacio tengo:
Maria Clara
rafaela
jose Ysidoro Nepomuceno
francisca
maria dolores
josefa
maria rosario
pedro jose

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Fri 2/20/2009 7:48 PM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos o quintos

Hola R.A.Ricci ayer me la pasé buscando el matrimonio de Manuel Marín de Peñaloza y Teresa de Alba que tengo de 22 de sep 1718 en Teocaltiche, pero no la encuentro, es mas, ni en el IGI encontré matrimonios en esa fecha, no se ni de donde la saqué, algo raro.

En cuanto a la información que me pides de José Antonio de Covarrubias e Ines de Guadalupe Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza, tengo que José Antonio fue bautizado el 13 de junio de 1726 en Cuquío, hijo de José de Covarrubias y Leonor Sánchez de Porras. Ines bautizada el 02 de febrero de 1723 en Jalostotitlán, hija de Gregorio Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza y Luisa Padilla Dávila.

Me gustaría saber tu ascendencia en las ramas que tenemos en común, y en cuanto a los descendientes de Salvador Ignacio Ramírez de Hermosillo y María Josefa de San Leonardo Martín del Campo, es la rama de mas interés para mi, ya que es mi primer apellido el Ramírez. Además de que desciendo de manera directa de 4 hijos de Salvador y Josefa. Tengo 12 hijos de este matrimonio.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

_________________________________________________________________
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Comentario

Rick, is this Salvador born June 17, 1748 and Married Feb 12, 1772?? to Maria Josefa martin del Campo?/
----- Original Message -----
From: Ricci, Richard
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos o quintos

Maria del carmen es mi abuela materna, ella es hija de jose prospero perez y juana ramirez
prospero perez es hijo de jose melquiades perez y maria manuela de la trinidad alvarez franco
Melquiades es hijo de jose maria perez de paredes y Rafalela Ramirez
Rafaela ramirez es hija de Salbador Ygnacio Ramirez de Hermosillo y Gutierrez de Laris Y de Josefa Martin del campo Perez
Yo no sabia que Josefa se llamaba Maria Josefa de san Leonardo, encontraste su act de Bautismo?
yo tengo las ramas de todos menos los antepasados de jose covarrubias
de los hijos de josefa y salvador ygnacio tengo:
Maria Clara
rafaela
jose Ysidoro Nepomuceno
francisca
maria dolores
josefa
maria rosario
pedro jose

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Fri 2/20/2009 7:48 PM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos o quintos

Hola R.A.Ricci ayer me la pasé buscando el matrimonio de Manuel Marín de Peñaloza y Teresa de Alba que tengo de 22 de sep 1718 en Teocaltiche, pero no la encuentro, es mas, ni en el IGI encontré matrimonios en esa fecha, no se ni de donde la saqué, algo raro.

En cuanto a la información que me pides de José Antonio de Covarrubias e Ines de Guadalupe Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza, tengo que José Antonio fue bautizado el 13 de junio de 1726 en Cuquío, hijo de José de Covarrubias y Leonor Sánchez de Porras. Ines bautizada el 02 de febrero de 1723 en Jalostotitlán, hija de Gregorio Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza y Luisa Padilla Dávila.

Me gustaría saber tu ascendencia en las ramas que tenemos en común, y en cuanto a los descendientes de Salvador Ignacio Ramírez de Hermosillo y María Josefa de San Leonardo Martín del Campo, es la rama de mas interés para mi, ya que es mi primer apellido el Ramírez. Además de que desciendo de manera directa de 4 hijos de Salvador y Josefa. Tengo 12 hijos de este matrimonio.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

_________________________________________________________________
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Comentario

No mike, these are not the same people. Salbador Ygnacio Ramirez is baptized on 24/aug/1766 in jalos and they were married the 12/feb/1800 also in jalos. I have her down only as Maria Josefa but in the search to find out where the Maria josefa de san Leonardo it seems that I may have come up on a little more information. Previously I had the family using only perez and perez de paredes. i found one document that lists the mother as franco and the father as using Martinez del campo. I need to do more checking to see if indeed they are talking about the same people. I know of other families that used franco and perez interchangeably. i want to find out if they are the same people because if they are then it adds a sibling to josefa that I did not know about.
I still have not rec'd any response in regards to the "San Leandro" or a baptismal certificate.

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Miggy GUTIERREZ
Sent: Tue 2/24/2009 8:15 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos o quintos

Rick, is this Salvador born June 17, 1748 and Married Feb 12, 1772?? to Maria Josefa martin del Campo?/
----- Original Message -----
From: Ricci, Richard
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos o quintos

Maria del carmen es mi abuela materna, ella es hija de jose prospero perez y juana ramirez
prospero perez es hijo de jose melquiades perez y maria manuela de la trinidad alvarez franco
Melquiades es hijo de jose maria perez de paredes y Rafalela Ramirez
Rafaela ramirez es hija de Salbador Ygnacio Ramirez de Hermosillo y Gutierrez de Laris Y de Josefa Martin del campo Perez
Yo no sabia que Josefa se llamaba Maria Josefa de san Leonardo, encontraste su act de Bautismo?
yo tengo las ramas de todos menos los antepasados de jose covarrubias
de los hijos de josefa y salvador ygnacio tengo:
Maria Clara
rafaela
jose Ysidoro Nepomuceno
francisca
maria dolores
josefa
maria rosario
pedro jose

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Fri 2/20/2009 7:48 PM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos o quintos

Hola R.A.Ricci ayer me la pasé buscando el matrimonio de Manuel Marín de Peñaloza y Teresa de Alba que tengo de 22 de sep 1718 en Teocaltiche, pero no la encuentro, es mas, ni en el IGI encontré matrimonios en esa fecha, no se ni de donde la saqué, algo raro.

En cuanto a la información que me pides de José Antonio de Covarrubias e Ines de Guadalupe Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza, tengo que José Antonio fue bautizado el 13 de junio de 1726 en Cuquío, hijo de José de Covarrubias y Leonor Sánchez de Porras. Ines bautizada el 02 de febrero de 1723 en Jalostotitlán, hija de Gregorio Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza y Luisa Padilla Dávila.

Me gustaría saber tu ascendencia en las ramas que tenemos en común, y en cuanto a los descendientes de Salvador Ignacio Ramírez de Hermosillo y María Josefa de San Leonardo Martín del Campo, es la rama de mas interés para mi, ya que es mi primer apellido el Ramírez. Además de que desciendo de manera directa de 4 hijos de Salvador y Josefa. Tengo 12 hijos de este matrimonio.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

_________________________________________________________________
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Comentario

Los hijos que tengo registrados de Salvador Ramírez y Josefa Martín son los siguientes:

1.- María Severiana de la Luz.

2.- Pedro José.

3.- María de los Dolores de San Lucas.

4.- María Tomasa.

5.- José Isidoro Nepomuceno.

6.- María Ignacia.

7.- María Clara.

8.- María de San José.

9.- María Francisca.

10.- Víctor.

11.- María del Rosario.

12.- María Rafaela.

María Josefa de San Leonardo Martín de Campo fue bautizada el 21 de noviembre de 1781 en Jalostotitlán, hija de José Antonio Agustín Martín del Campo e Ignacia María Anacleta Pérez de Paredes. Casó en Jalostotitlán con Salvador Ignacio Ramírez de Hermosillo el 12 de febrero de 1800.

En cuanto a José de Covarrubias, el cual casó con Leonor Sánchez de Porras, es hijo de otro José de Covarrubias y Leonor de Hermosillo. Casado con Margarita Martín del Campo, antes que con Leonor Sánchez de Porras.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 10:56:23 -0800
> From: rricci@lausd.net
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos o quintos
>
> Maria del carmen es mi abuela materna, ella es hija de jose prospero perez y juana ramirez
> prospero perez es hijo de jose melquiades perez y maria manuela de la trinidad alvarez franco
> Melquiades es hijo de jose maria perez de paredes y Rafalela Ramirez
> Rafaela ramirez es hija de Salbador Ygnacio Ramirez de Hermosillo y Gutierrez de Laris Y de Josefa Martin del campo Perez
> Yo no sabia que Josefa se llamaba Maria Josefa de san Leonardo, encontraste su act de Bautismo?
> yo tengo las ramas de todos menos los antepasados de jose covarrubias
> de los hijos de josefa y salvador ygnacio tengo:
> Maria Clara
> rafaela
> jose Ysidoro Nepomuceno
> francisca
> maria dolores
> josefa
> maria rosario
> pedro jose
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
> Sent: Fri 2/20/2009 7:48 PM
> To: Nuestros Ranchos
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos o quintos
>
>
>
>
> Hola R.A.Ricci ayer me la pasé buscando el matrimonio de Manuel Marín de Peñaloza y Teresa de Alba que tengo de 22 de sep 1718 en Teocaltiche, pero no la encuentro, es mas, ni en el IGI encontré matrimonios en esa fecha, no se ni de donde la saqué, algo raro.
>
>
>
> En cuanto a la información que me pides de José Antonio de Covarrubias e Ines de Guadalupe Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza, tengo que José Antonio fue bautizado el 13 de junio de 1726 en Cuquío, hijo de José de Covarrubias y Leonor Sánchez de Porras. Ines bautizada el 02 de febrero de 1723 en Jalostotitlán, hija de Gregorio Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza y Luisa Padilla Dávila.
>
>
>
> Me gustaría saber tu ascendencia en las ramas que tenemos en común, y en cuanto a los descendientes de Salvador Ignacio Ramírez de Hermosillo y María Josefa de San Leonardo Martín del Campo, es la rama de mas interés para mi, ya que es mi primer apellido el Ramírez. Además de que desciendo de manera directa de 4 hijos de Salvador y Josefa. Tengo 12 hijos de este matrimonio.
>
> Saludos.
> Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Personaliza Messenger como tú quieras.
> http://download.live.com/messenger

Comentario

Tu me mandaste:

María Josefa de San Leonardo Martín de Campo fue bautizada el 21 de noviembre de 1781 en Jalostotitlán, hija de José Antonio Agustín Martín del Campo e Ignacia María Anacleta Pérez de Paredes. Casó en Jalostotitlán con Salvador Ignacio Ramírez de Hermosillo el 12 de febrero de 1800.

Yo tenia:
Maria Josefa Martin del Campo y Perez de Paredes, hija de Jose antonio Agustin Martin del campo Francode Paredes y su esposa Maria Gertrudis Perez de paredes y Ochoa Garibay
Maria gertrudis Perez y Ochoa Garibay, bautizada 25/nov/1776 y hija de Jose Manuel Perez de Paredes Y Gertrudis Ochoa Garibay
Tambien tengo la misma fecha de matirmonio de salvador ignacio y josefa, 12/feb/1800

De los padres de jose maria De la torre y de la torre quien esta casado con Maria Eusevia Martin del campo y Barba sigo regresando, depues de mas de 20 anos a:

Salvador Clemente De la torre casado con Maria Alexandra Guadalupe De la Torre casados en aguascalientes el 19/feb/1787 (Rollo 299832)

Comentario

Maria Ygnacia Perez de Paredes se caso el 6 /feb/1780 en Jalostotitlan con Joseph Antonio Agustin Martines del Campo

el problema es que hay dos ygnacia perez de paredes de los mismos padres

yo tenia a la esposa como Maria Gertrudis Ygnacia Perez de Paredes Ochoa Garibay
bautizada 25/nov/1776

y tu tienes a su hermana, Ygnacia Maria Anacleta Perez de paredes Ochoa Garibay bautizada 12/may/1764

tu estas correcto por que maria gertrudis tuviera cuatro anos de edad en 1780

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Wed 3/4/2009 2:35 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Tu me mandaste:

María Josefa de San Leonardo Martín de Campo fue bautizada el 21 de noviembre de 1781 en Jalostotitlán, hija de José Antonio Agustín Martín del Campo e Ignacia María Anacleta Pérez de Paredes. Casó en Jalostotitlán con Salvador Ignacio Ramírez de Hermosillo el 12 de febrero de 1800.

Yo tenia:
Maria Josefa Martin del Campo y Perez de Paredes, hija de Jose antonio Agustin Martin del campo Francode Paredes y su esposa Maria Gertrudis Perez de paredes y Ochoa Garibay
Maria gertrudis Perez y Ochoa Garibay, bautizada 25/nov/1776 y hija de Jose Manuel Perez de Paredes Y Gertrudis Ochoa Garibay
Tambien tengo la misma fecha de matirmonio de salvador ignacio y josefa, 12/feb/1800

De los padres de jose maria De la torre y de la torre quien esta casado con Maria Eusevia Martin del campo y Barba sigo regresando, depues de mas de 20 anos a:

Salvador Clemente De la torre casado con Maria Alexandra Guadalupe De la Torre casados en aguascalientes el 19/feb/1787 (Rollo 299832)

Comentario

Edgar Olguin Diaz
BUEN DIAS PACO ROMO
UNA PREGUNTA
TIENE EL TESTAMENTO DE BERNARDO RUIZ DE ESPARZA ESPOSO DE CATALINA LOZANO FRIAS?

ESTE ES EL TESTAMENTO PERO ME GUSTARIA TENER EL ARCHIVO DIGITALIZADO
ME LO PODRIAS PASAR?
TE LO AGRADEZCERIA MUCHO

Testamento de Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza
Sello Tercero, Un Real, Años de Mil Seiscientos y Noventa, y Noventa y Uno.
En Nombre de Dios Todo Poderoso y de su Vendita Madre la Siempre Virgen
Maria concebida en Gracia y Gloria desde el primer instante de su ser. Amen.
Notorio y manifiesto sea a los que este pressente testamento vieren, como
yo, Bernardo Ruys de Esparssa, hijo legitimo de Lope Ruys de Esparssa y de
Francisca Gabai su Lexitima Muxer, vezinos que fueron de esta Villa de Aguas
calientes de donde soy natural y actualmente vezino estando en mi entera
salud cabal, juissio, memoria y entendimiento....etc. etc.
On a different paragraph, he continues
Y ten declaro que fui casado y velado segun horden de Ntra. Sta. Madre
Yglesia Chatolica Romana, con Chatalina Lossano, Hija Lexitima de Juan
Lozano y de Ysabel de Friaz su Lexitima Muxer, vecinos que fueron del pueblo
de Theocaltiche, y que con la susodicha dote...etc. etc.

ESPERO Y ME PUEDAS AYUDAR AMIGO

QUE TENGAS UN EXCELENETE DIA
SALUDOS

Comentario

Hola Paco,

Espero que te encuentres bien. Estoy preguntando acerca de un documento histórico que espero esté en su archivo. Es el siguiente documento

Testamento de Juan de Tiscareño

LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 8-VIII-1700 LOCALIZACION- 79 3 55 110v-

ESCRIBANO- Salvador Delgado Cervantes

Fecha de nacimiento: acerca de 1637

Fallecio: 1715

Hijo legitimo de Luis de Tiscareno y Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza

 

Muchas gracias,

Hector Valdez

Read full comment ➜

Bringing back Juan de Moscoso y Sandoval

Published by labananilla –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hello, everybody!

Comentarios

Comentario

Hi I recently connected myself to Juan Moscoso y Sandoval and was wondering whether there was any new information. I see that there's a bishop and cardinal of the same name in Spaion during somewhat of the same time period named Baltasar Moscoso y Sandoval but nothing specific that connects our Moscoso y Sandoval to this family. Just wondering if there was any new info 

 

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

It seems to me that Juan Moscoso y Sandoval has to be related in some way to Baltasar Moscoso y Sandoval. I know someone mentioned on another thread that the name isn't that uncommon but I just don't see that being the case. Most of the members of this family are high ranking church members, Counts, Knights, etc... and they descend from even higher ranking church officials and even higher ranking nobility. I don't see someone in Mexico randomly choosing to use a compound surname of a well known noble family that they have no connection too. In the same way I can't imagine someone in Mexico using the compound Hurtado de Mendoza unless they were in some way connected to that family. It would seem at first glance that the compound surname Moscoso y Sandoval would have to come from the marriage of Lope de Moscoso and Leonor de Sandoval. The only problem is there's no known children that go by Juan de Moscoso y Sandoval. We do know that Lope de Moscoso and Leonor de Sandoval had a grandson named Juan Antonio de Moscoso Osorio y Sandoval but he would've been born to late to be our Juan Moscoso y Sandoval. I'm wondering if in the same way that prominent family members in Mexico would often marry into other prominant families whether another close relative of Lope de Moscoso possibly married another close relative of Leonor de Sandoval. Unfortunately, I haven't had time to do genealogy for quite some time. Hopefully, during the holidays I will have a chance to catch up

Comentario

For whatever it's worth, just some of my thoughts on the topic.

Now if in general during that time it was common to name children after ancestors, and specifically in that area

1. Catalina Cortes has a few descendants named after her
2. and so does Magdalena de Lavezares
3. and so does Melchora de los Reyes

Then can't we look into to see if the same tradition exists in Juan de Moscoso y Sandoval's descendants to get clues about his ancestors?

What I see is his daughter 1. Cecilia Vasquez de Sandoval (+ Diego Gonzalez) and other of his descendants named Cecilia that use Vasquez on at least an occasion. And since one of the Cecilias (+ Mateo Gonzalez de Ruvalcaba) is not a daughter of the 1st Cecilia I mentioned, but a niece then isn't it reasonably to assume that there should be a Cecilia Vasquez that Juan de Moscoso de Sandoval descends from?

And since there isn't a Leonor as a daughter or I don't even think a granddaughter, then doesn't it seem less likely that he descends from a Leonor de Sandoval y Rojas?

Comentario

You are stuck where I think we are all stuck. I think that dropbox link is mine. I don't think there actually is any primary source expressly stating that Mateo is the father of Juan Moscoso y Sandoval. The only primary source with Mateo's name can be found in this thread

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/24259?page=1

Sorry, wish I had more for you! I did just take a quick look in Sayula and looks like there may be Vasquez de Sandoval there in mid 1650s

Comentario

Thank you! Actually, it might be quite helpful. In this document both mentions of Mateo are answers to "question 25", implying that he abandoned his wife. The question is on page 85 of the same document, and it includes men that have abandoned their wives, that have them in Spain (which we know is not the case), that have no permission from the King to be in Mexico, that have died without a testament, or without any heir. There is no mention of a son, and I could think that the absence of a son could very well be a reason a man would abandon a wife.
Also, this document is from 1610, while the book that states he is the father of Juan de Moscoso y Sandoval says "it was told in 1608...".

Comentario

I would think so... I mean, there is a side of the Moscoso family with Vazquez in it (starting with Suero Vázquez de Moscoso) which would give a hint and make it possible for Mateo to be his father, and Juan using Moscoso. But as far as I could get, this side of the family didn't mix with Sandoval, and there was no hint of any Mateo whatsoever...

I scanned the same document to find others who are accused in question 25, and they do mention when they have children. I don't know. Taking into account that back then women were pretty much meant to have kids, maybe if she couldn't have any that would've made him leave. Because there is also another question asking if they know someone who lives with a partner they're not married to, so if this guy had another woman, they probably woul've said so. It's just making assumptions, in the end... I'll keep looking at this record, though.

Also, I found this: https://coronado.unm.edu/node/7946
It's all about a "Juan de Sandoval" that I found in the book "pobladores de Nueva España" (https://archive.org/details/conquistadoresyp02icaz/page/294/mode/2up/se…).

Now, they don't even mention where he's from, the last name Moscoso is nowhere to be found and the dates don't even match, so I'm not implying it might be him. There is however something that caught my attention. In more than one of these mentions they make a reference to his old age. We do know that our Juan was called "El viejo", the old man. Now, I'm still not saying that it could be him (that would mean he had children at 90 haha) but it seems like a funny coincidence. Maybe this is related in a way?

I'm just gathering all I can found to try to trace a line. I feel like the guy in the conspiracy theory meme.

**Edit: I just found this family tree (I haven't checked its facts though) but it shows the Vazquez de Moscoso family, and there are a coulple of Sandovals right there. Could be useful: https://gw.geneanet.org/yvesdemenorval?lang=es&iz=693&m=D&p=suero&n=vaz…

Comentario

Hello Ana Torres
Sorry I did not write sooner, I got side tracked doing research for another Prima. You and I share Justiniano Moscoso y Sandoval and I come in thru his daughter Maria Manuela who married Jph Mariano Tello de Orosco on 15th May 1775 in Nochistlan F- 226727 image #473. here is he link

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-TQ9H-7P?i=472&wc=3P9F-…

Attn: Guillermo Tovar de Teresa y otros interesados Mota-Padilla y los Méndez de Torres

Published by mendezdetorres –
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Estimado Guillermo:

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Sr. Daniel buen día, 
Recientemente he encontrado este hilo de su parte, le contacto para saber si pudo conseguir el testamento/inventario de Don Diego patriarca de los Méndez de Torres, ya que para variar, yo también desciendo de él por medio de su hijo Pedro. 
Como sabrá y por lo que he visto en otros hilos, un descendiente de él, asegura en su información para el ingreso al Colegio de Abogados de México que don Diego era de Tavira, Faro en Portugal. También veo que usted comenta que su esposa María Gómez de Bedoya era originaria de León. 
Yo no he logrado encontrar información que corrobore estos puntos por lo que me gustaría saber si, en caso de haber conseguido dicho testamento/inventario, esta información es aclarada.
Saludos cordiales.

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New Member

Published by v.guzman-garcia –
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Hello, I'm Valerie Cefre, maiden name Garcia (y Guzman), and I'm very excited to join such an incredible group of people dedicated to chronicling the past for our future generations to enjoy! My mother was born in Zacatecas and my father was born in southern California and for most of my life, that's all I really knew about either side of my extended family. Both my parents had difficult childhoods which meant that they generally avoided taking about the past. It wasn't until my paternal grandmother was in her last days that my extended family (her in-laws) came to visit, from Texas! I was surprised to see my great uncles in Wrangler jeans, boots, and cowboy hats. My dad casually said that his father's side was from Corpus Christi as if it were common knowledge. Years later, my husband wanted to work on his family tree and I decided to do my side along with him but I didn't expect to find much since my mother was born in Nochistlán and my dad's maternal side came from Nuevo León. I was

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....since its free to use and to populate family trees there a a lot of folks that use it.... you may be able to see more info there.  Here is the page of your family tree.... there are a bunch of potential updates pending.....  and, yep, somebody has done a lot of populating:  https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/MVYY-WZP

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Miguel de Avalos y Teresa de Baez

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Que tal compañeros, quiera saber si alguien tiene de ancestros a Miguel de Avalos casado con Teresa de Báez.

Tuvieron por hijo a

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Many Askenkenazi only intermarried with other Ashkenazi, even after moving to Spain or Portugal. Rabbi Zacuto descendants intermarried often. that is how Simon Vaez was related to his wife. The extended family followed them to Mexico, and what is now New Mexico, and continued the endogamy. Mr Enriquez, the spouse of the lady that I met at the airport, descends from Ashkenazi that continued marrying Ashkenazi until only recently. That is the only way to explain his DNA results as his family has been in Mexico for centuries. I will get into contact with this Enriquez family and work on their genealogy.

Comentario

Rabbi Abraham Ben Samuel Zacuto’s ancestry leads to France in the 1200’s just like the Sanchez Hernandez Arellano family
They weren’t Sephardic Jews, they were Ashkenazim.

R.A.Ricci

Comentario

Enrique,

the dispensation doesnt really specify who the ancestors are, but the Baez and the de la Serna families are the same. I have several of them in my ancestry. My guess is that your Theresa Baez and Lorenza de la Serna are related to my Ignacio Baez aka de la Serna. they're probly all first cousins. Unfortunately, i dont know who is parents are, but his children all use the names Baez and de la Serna:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/B%C3%A1ez-15

There's a Simon Baez that died in Aguascalientes in 1659 who is old enough to be the father of any of these Baez and de la Serna's. Some people claim that he and his wife Maria de la Cerda are the origin of the Baez de la Serna, but I don't think people would confuse de la Cerda and de la Serna, they're not the same names at all.

Guadalajara, Jal. Abril 27 de 1716.- Dispensa de tercero grado igual de
consanguinidad. - Cayetano de Avalos, español de 17 años de edad, vecino de esta
Ciudad de Guadalajara y originario del Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de San Juan,
hijo legítimo de Miguel de Avalos y de Theresa Báez; con Petrona Gutiérrez,
española de 18 años de edad, originaria de la Hacienda del Potrerillo feligresía
de Jocotepec. y vecina de esta ciudad, hija legítima de Bernardo Camacho y de
Lorenza de la Serna. Declaración del pretenso: Por ser la madre de la pretensa y
la mía primas hermanas, hijas de dos hermanos. Se otorgó la dispensa en la
Ciudad de Guadalajara. en 27 de abril de 1716. 12 fojas.

Comentario

A few months ago, I helped someone extend their family tree many generations. The information that I was provided with initially included records with De la serna as the surname. As I went back in time, the surname reverted to the original surname De la Cerda. The information was posted here in a nuestroranchos post.

Lorenza Baez Gutierrez (aka De la Serna/de La Cerda) B: 30 ago 1678 in Villa de Santa Maria de Los Lagos, Jalisco, Mexico was the daughter of Ignacio Baez De la Serna and Juana Maria Gutierrez De Mendoza.

Ignacio Báez de la Serna is the son of Simone Baez and Maria De la Cerda

I believe that it is possible that Imone descends from : Juan de Baeça natural de Baeça de Paßcuaro donde fue naguatato (?), y de Ysabel de Perez su muger, natural de Fe

Name Lorensa Baez Gutierres
Gender Female
Christening Date 30 Aug 1678
Christening Place SANTA MARIA DE LOS LAGOS,LAGOS DE MORENO,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Ygnacio Baez
Mother's Name Ma. Gutierres
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJ5D-6V3 : 10 February 2018), Lorensa Baez Gutierres, 30 Aug 1678; citing SANTA MARIA DE LOS LAGOS,LAGOS DE MORENO,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 221,504.

Here is a copy and link to Simon’s death record:
Simon Baes
Event Type Death
Event Place Asunción de María, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico
Gender Male
Marital Status Married
Burial Date 14 Dec 1659
Spouse's Name Maria de la Cerda
Citing this Record
México, Aguascalientes, registros parroquiales, 1620-1962, database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N87J-F21 : 11 March 2018), Simon Baes, ; citing Death, Asunción de María, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico, parroquias Católicas, Aguascalientes (Catholic church parishes, Aguascalientes).

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6S67-68K?i=75&cc=15024…

Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

De la Cerda is a name that was not a popular name at a time where many people were being accused of Judaism It was easy to change the name to De la Serna and it was often done, not just in this branch of the family.

Baeza is a surname based on location. The people with this surname usually had ancestors with different surnames. My Baeza ancestors were originally Lopez.

1. Simon Baez and Maria de la Serda
1.1 Juana Ysidora Baez Serda, c. 25 may 1687, Villa de Santa Maria de Los Lagos, Jalisco, Mexico.
1.2 Simon Baez de la Cerda, married at least twice
1.3. Sebastiana Baez Lacerda c24 feb 1659, Aguascalientes, Ags.
1.4 Ignacio Baez de la Serna m. Juana María Gutierrez De Mendoza (daughter of Juan Gutierrez De Mendoza and Ana Camacho Gonzalez De Hermosillo
1.4.1 María Gutierrez
1.4.2 Sebastian Baez Gutierrez c. 22/Feb/1676 in Villa de Santa Maria de Los Lagos, Jalisco, Mexico.
1.4.3 Lorenza Baez Gutierrez (aka De la Serna) c. 30/Aug/1678 in Villa de Santa Maria de Los Lagos, Jalisco, Mexico.
1.4.4 Franco. Baez Gutierrez c. 20/Oct/1680 in Villa de Santa Maria de Los Lagos, Jalisco, Mexico.
1.4.5 Ignacio Baez Gutierrez c. 25/Mar/1683 in Villa de Santa Maria de Los Lagos, Jalisco, Mexico.
1.4.6 Phelipe Baez Gutierrez c. 1684 in Villa de Santa Maria de Los Lagos, Jalisco, Mexico.
1.4.7 Nicolas Baez Gutierrez c. 04/Sep/1685 in Villa de Santa Maria de Los Lagos, Jalisco, Mexico..
1.4.8 Diego Baez Gutierrez b. 1697 in Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Mexico.

Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Hola a todos:

Existió una persona llamada Simón Baéz Sevilla, era comerciante e impulsor de una serie de sinagogas, su familia vivía en San Juan de Los Lagos y varios de sus miebros fueron procesados por la Inquisición, Salomón Machorro vivía en Querétaro.

Hay varios libros sobre éstos procesos, pero en el siguiente artículo hay un resumen:

www.enlacejudio.com/2017/04/19/algunos-datos-interesantes-auto-fe-inqui…

Por cierto la palabra nahuatlalo significa que la persona es intérprete de la lengua náhuatl, aunque lo escriben con diferentes ortografías como naguatato. Las personas que servían como intérpretes de lenguas eran conocidas como "bocas" o que tenían "oficio de boca".

Saludos

Marcelina

Comentario

Gracias Marcelina y Danny,

Es muy interesante saber que habían establecido sinogogas in Los Altos De Jalisco en ese tiempo. También es interesante que estas mismas personas manejaban la venta de esclavos por unos años. Muy religiosos en un sentido, pero también traían y vendían esclavos.

Ricardo A. Ricci

Comentario

Simon Vaez De Sevilla received many people into his home where he kept many of his family traditions. His place was known to be a place they could worship in secrecy. Many people from Portugal, many of them close and distant relatives from the Levi tribe, would visit him upon their first arrival to the Americas. His wife was related to him “tercer con cuarto grado”. Many relatives tried to keep their Jewish roots secret in order to avoid persecution. The stories of the Vaez family came to light from accusations made against them.

Gaspar González o Burro (nickname) married Leonor Vaez. Gaspar was “cobrador y administrador de rentas reales en Portugal. Gaspar and Leonor are the parents of Simon (their youngest son).

“Simón Vaez Sevilla De Castelo Blanco” (Simáo Vaz de Sevilha en Portugal) married his relative Juana Enriquez (daughter of Juan Antonio Rodriguez and Blanca Enriquez) (Juana y Simon fueron primos en tercer con quarto grado)

Juan Antonio Rodriguez And Blanca Enriquez were married in the house of Juan Antonio’s cousin, Pedro Arias Maldonado. Blanca Enriquez is the daughter of Juana Rodriguez.

Simon Vaez was born in Santiago De Castilla and raised in Castelo Blanco, Portugal.
The Enriquez family descended from rabbi Yitzhak Aboab from the Levi tribe. This rabbi Yitzhak Aboab (alive in 1300) is the author of three books and is the ancestor of the other rabbi Yitzhak (Isaac Aboab) De Castilla, (born in 1433 in Toledo, died in January, 1493, in Portugal). This family believed that the messiah was to be born from their family. Since it was the second rabbi Yitzhak Aboab De Castilla that went to Portugal (dying a few months after arriving), the family descends from him. The first Yitzhak Aboab is the most famous one as his books were read by many people. Many internet articles erroneously attribute some of the writings of the first Yitzhak Aboab to his descendant the Yitzhak Aboab De Castilla that actually took his family took Portugal. Many of his descendants were forced to leave Portugal and spread out throughout the known world. Some went to Italy, others to Holland, while many others went to the Americas were they were received by Simon Vaez Sevilla. As a descendant of Rabbi Yitzhak Ahoub, it is no wonder that Blanca Enriquez was a scholar in her own right. She was proficient in many languages and engaged her family in religious discussions and traditions. Blancas relatives that went to Italy continued writing and were highly sought out by other Jewish leaders. Some Descendants of another Rabbi that traveled to Portugal with rabbi Yitzhak Aboab converted to Catholicism under the forced conversions and too the surnames Rodríguez and Nunez. Taking into account that the families traveled to Portugal together and the endogamy we find in this family, it is most probable that the Baez Rodriguez Enriquez clan descends from both of these rabbis. This second rabbi did not convert and left Portugal and traveled the world. He predicted the end of the world in a certain year which came to be true for him as he died in that year.

My Romo family openly spoke amongst themselves of their roots, but embraced Catholicism with many family members becoming priests and nuns. Santo Toribio Romo was a close member of my maternal grandfather’s family. Many relatives that came from Mexico to celebrate my mom’s 90th birthday this past Saturday recounted many stories that I will be adding to my book.

R.A. Ricci

Comentario

Wow this is really interesting. Do you think that this Simon Baez Sevilla is the father of the Simon Baez that's married to Maria de la Cerda or do you think it might be the same person that just remarried?

Comentario

I believe that he is ether the father or uncle. At first I thought uncle because I read somewhere that he had two kids, but another source mentioned that he had more kids and that he left many descendants San Juan De los Lagos. There is still much research to be done to identify his descendants and the descendants of the people around Simon Baez Sevilla. The two rabbis that went to Portugal left descendants that had to leave Portugal. The names mentioned of descendants of theirs that were forced to convert are Rodriguez and Nunez. And we know that many of the Rodriguez descendants also used the surnames Lopez and Enriquez. Of particular interest to me are the Rodriguez, Núñez, Enriquez, Lopez, and Arias De Maldonado descendants in Los Altos De Jalisco. This information on Simon Vaez Sevilla, and who his ancestors and relatives were, settles the issue about anusim in Nueva Galicia, particularly Los Altos De Jalisco.

Simon Vaez Sevilla’s parents are related through third/fourth degree which means one of them is a second cousin to a parent of the other. And many of the people that came to the Americas and went to him first are said to be relatives. One of them was surnamed Arias Maldonado and it seems that this person is the most likely patriarch of the Arias Maldonado family in Nueva Galicia. Because of the threat of the inquisition many of these people would have gone to great lengths to hide their ancestry. Even Simon Baez Sevilla tried to hide who his ancestors were as he had originally claimed to be a descendant of “christiano viejo”.

There are parrallels in Simon Vaez Sevilla’s ancestry to the ancestry that I posted on Toribio Hernández Arellano. They both had ancestors that managed the assets of a king, were big time traders and shippers of goods, and they both were involved in situations where people turned on them because of their much wealth. The inquisition took in lots of money by attacking their families. A big difference is that Simon Vaez Sevilla’s two rabbi ancestors that went from Spain to Portugal, and an ancestor to one of the rabbis, also named Yitzhak Aboab, left many books, mainly commentaries, that the Jewish community cherished.

Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Hi Rick,

All this information is fascinating! In case it helps D. Alonso Arias Maldonado y Pérez de Guzmán and his wife Da. Catalina Ortiz de Zárate y Hurtado de Mendoza are the patriarchs of the Arias Maldonado family of the Obispado de Michoacan and Nueva Galicia. They established their family in Tlazazalca, Michoacán where he also served as Justicia Mayor of Tlazazalca y La Barca and have their nobility documented through several dispensas and limpiezas de sangre--they are my 9th great grand uncle and aunt. I have eight children documented for them baptized between 1640-1660.

Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino

Comentario

Buen dia. Indagando en la Sagrada Mitra de Valladolid he encontrado al menos a tres cabezas de familias españolas con la misma edad de Alonso Arias Maldonado viviendo en Michoacan, estos son: Juan Arias, hijo de Rodrigo Arias; Mateo Arias Maldonado, hijo de Andres Arias Maldonado y, por supuesto a Alonso Arias Maldonado.

Comentario

Hi!  Sorry but could you share the information of the dispensas and limpiezas de sangre of Alonso Arias Maldonado and Catalina Ortiz de Zarate? They're my 12th grandparents and I'm trying to gather more information about them.

 

Thank you in advance!

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Just after posting the comment about the Enriquez family in Jalisco being from Jewish descent from the family of Simon Baez Sevilla and his wife, I went to the airport to drop off my sister who is returning to Mexico. As my sister was waiting in line to get her boarding pass, A woman was having trouble getting her boarding pass from the computer terminal signin so I volunteered to helped her out. As I handed her the boarding pass I told her that my hobby was genealogy and that I had just posted on the internet about an Enriquez family with Jewish ancestors that left many descendants Jalisco. She lit up with the biggest smile and told me that that explains her husbands dna results.

Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Dear Danny,

Rabbi Abraham Zacuto was the other rabbi that accompanied rabbi Yitzhak Aboab to Portugal. Yitzhak died a few months after arriving, in the beginning of the following year in January 1493. It is rabbi Abraham Zacuto’s descendants that later converted to Catholicism that were known to use the surnames Núñez and Rodriguez

Rabbi Abraham Zacuto was a world renowned scientist in his time as he wrote a very important book about how to navigate using the stars. He did not invent, but he improved on a very important invention, the astrolabe. He made a metal astrolabe that was more accurate and was easier to use in the open sea. Christopher Colombus used his charts and his astrolabe to not only help him navigate in the open sea, but to trick the Indians into believing that he should be treated with respect by using the astrolabe to accurately predict an eclipse.

I will send you a picture of him through email.

Rick A. Ricci
Source: Mygenes2000

Comentario

What was shocking to Mrs. Enriquez and her husband was that his DNA results showed that his ancestry was primarily Jewish and had little of the ancestry that he had expected. His wife’DNA sample did come back as they had expected with much European ancestry, some Native American ancestry, with smaller amounts from different areas.

Dr. Vladimir Rozenblit is a 20th generation direct descendant of rabbi Abraham Zacuto. It would be interesting to compare the DNA of Dr. Vladimir Rozenblit to the DNA of Mr. Enriquez, the husband of the woman that I met at the airport. I did get contact info from her. I will try to contact Dr. Vladimir Rozenblit and see if he will agree to the comparison of the DNA samples.

Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

1. Abraham Zacuto (b.1395, d.1475)
2. Samuel Abraham Zacuto (b.1425, Salamanca, d.1490)
3. Rabbi Abraham Ben Samuel Zacuto (b.12/Aug/1452 in Salamanca, d.either in 1515 or 1520 in Damascus, Syria) [one source says 1515 while another source says 1520.]
4. Samuel Abraham Zacuto (b.1475 Salamnca, d. 1540 Damascus, Syria)
5. first name unknown Ben Samuel Zacuto (b. 1500, d. 1590) who changed his surname to Nunez. ( his descendants used the surnames Nunez, Rodriguez and Enriquez (Anrique), and Zacuto)
6. Núñez Zacuto (b.1540, Spain, d. 1612 Amsterdam, Netherlands)
7. Moses Enriquez Zacuto is the son of Núñez Zacuto (b.1576 Portugal, d.Coltun, Hamburg)
8. Mordecai Anrique Zacuto (b.1598 Amsterdam, Netherlands, d. 1665 Amsterdam, Netherlands)

Comentario

1. Abraham Zacuto (b.1395, d.1475)
2. Samuel Abraham Zacuto (b.1425, Salamanca, d.1490)
3. Rabbi Abraham Ben Samuel Zacuto (b.12/Aug/1452 in Salamanca, d.either in 1515 or 1520 in Damascus, Syria) [one source says 1515 while another source says 1520.]
4. Samuel Abraham Zacuto (b.1475 Salamnca, d. 1540 Damascus, Syria)
5. first name unknown Ben Samuel Zacuto (b. 1500, d. 1590) who changed his surname to Nunez. ( his descendants used the surnames Nunez, Rodriguez and Enriquez (Anrique), and Zacuto)
6. Núñez Zacuto (b.1540, Spain, d. 1612 Amsterdam, Netherlands)
7. Moses Enriquez Zacuto is the son of Núñez Zacuto (b.1576 Portugal, d.Coltun, Hamburg)
8. Mordecai Anrique Zacuto (b.1598 Amsterdam, Netherlands, d. 1665 Amsterdam, Netherlands)

Comentario

1. Abraham Zacuto (b.1395, d.1475)
2. Samuel Abraham Zacuto (b.1425, Salamanca, d.1490)
3. Rabbi Abraham Ben Samuel Zacuto (b.12/Aug/1452 in Salamanca, d.either in 1515 or 1520 in Damascus, Syria) [one source says 1515 while another source says 1520.]
4. Samuel Abraham Zacuto (b.1475 Salamnca, d. 1540 Damascus, Syria)
5. first name unknown Ben Samuel Zacuto (b. 1500, d. 1590) who changed his surname to Nunez. ( his descendants used the surnames Nunez, Rodriguez and Enriquez (Anrique), and Zacuto)
6. Núñez Zacuto (b.1540, Spain, d. 1612 Amsterdam, Netherlands)
7. Moses Enriquez Zacuto is the son of Núñez Zacuto (b.1576 Portugal, d.Coltun, Hamburg)
8. Mordecai Anrique Zacuto (b.1598 Amsterdam, Netherlands, d. 1665 Amsterdam, Netherlands)

Comentario

This following passage was written by the Zacuto Foundation:

“When Christopher Columbus arrived in Spain, he met with the great astronomer and received a copy of the tables. This manuscript with the marginalia of Columbus is extant in the Colombian library in Portugal. It is often said that Zacuto was also instrumental in raising a big loan for Columbus with the tycoons Abraham Senior, Gabriel Sanchez and Luis de Santangel. A prominent man of Jewish origin, Senior embraced Christianity, while Santangel and Sanchez were born into a recently baptised family. Zacuto also introduced Columbus to Don Isaac Abravanel, a Jewish notable with great influence at the Court, and he arranged for the navigator’s audience with the King and the Queen. Soon Columbus set sail to America, bearing the Zacuto tables with him. The family tradition insists that a young Zacuto, a son of R. Abraham, sailed with him, and accompanied him in all his journeys. If so, this young man was the first Jew on the American soil. It is possible that he advised the Genoese navigator to use his father’s tables in the moment of need. During Columbus’ last voyage to America (1504), his small fleet was marooned on Jamaica, where the natives did not want to supply him and his sailors with food. The Zacuto's tables provided him with a way out as they indicated there would soon (on February 29, 1504) be a lunar eclipse. Columbus assembled the Caciques (as the native chiefs were called) and threatened them that he will banish the moonlight. The eclipse frightened the natives and they asked Columbus to save the moon. Columbus acquiesced, the eclipse passed and since then the Caciques respected him and provided with all he needed, says the legend.”

The Gabriel Sanchez in the above passage was one of Christopher Colombus’s best friends. He is the brother of Alfonso Sanchez II who i wrote about in the post about the ancestry of Torino Hernandez Arellano. In that thread, Daniel Mendez del Camino contributed that Toribio Hernández Arellano named his son Gabriel Sanchez.

Christopher Colombus’s father was a businessman that had much contact with the Sanchez family so they may have been the ones to put him into contact with Rabbi Abraham Zacuto. Colombus met with Zacuto in Castilla as Zacuto had not yet moved to Portugal. Zacuto moved to Portugal in 1492.

There were other Jews on that first trip. Alfonso Sanchez’s nephew was on the trip. But he was technically not Jewish as he had converted to Catholicism.

Rick A. Ricci

New Member: Jorge Casarez

Published by JorgeC –
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Hello-----I am Jorge Andres Casarez (y Sanchez)

My genealogy education began when my parents shared the names of their parents and grand parents.  

  • My mother born in DF/MXCD told me of her grandfather: Victoriano Sanchez Calderon. From Jilotepec, MX. In his family was someone who was Jewish and came from Aragon and Andorra.  
  • My Father Andres Casarez was born in Pleasanton, Texas, told me of his father Frumencio Casarez born in Webb County Texas and his father Plutarco Casares who came from and was born in Real de Catorce, San Luis De Potosi, who was married to Felicita Zamorra who was una Huasteca. 
    • The Texas lineage mixes with Esparza of the Alamo and the Huizar who was a surveyor for the Missions in the San Antonio and Justicia at San Jose Mission. 
  • And for many years that is all that I knew, then 25 years ago I started.  
  •  I am focusing on my Casarez ancestors. I have learned of the 1591 Tlaxcala Migration/Exodus/Quizaliztli of the soldiers and their families sent to Zacatecas and San
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Comentario

Hello Jorge Andres,

I am your very distant relative through our Ruiz de Esparza’s lines.  You can find many posts that I have made regarding our Esparza family in Nuestrosranchos.

You didn’t write much about your mother’s side of the family.  I did a little research using the few clues that you provided. 
Is this The death record of your maternal grandfather: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRK5-WKG?view=index&action=view&cc=1923424     ?

Rick A Ricci

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I'm researching some of my family lines in San Luis Potosí, particularly some ancestors that were born there between 1640 and 1700, and I've found a couple conformed by Joan Estevan de Caceres and Luisa Cavallero, whose daughter Joanna was baptized in the same city on Oct. 27, 1656. They are mentioned as Spaniard neighbors of San Luis Potosí. Maybe there are more relatives lost among these records. The link is above. Good luck with your research.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GG25-B1X?i=80&cc=1860864 

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Vazquez de Mercado in Pinos, ZAC.

Published by JnMartinezM –
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Genealogy Research

Recientemente encontré documentos que me ligan con Antonio Vázquez de Mercado y Rafaela Tomasa de Mota. Desciendo de su hijo Manuel Antonio (n. 1743, Pinos, ZAC), y casado el 13 de junio de 1763 en la hacienda de Espíritu Santo, en la jurisdicción de Pinos. Aparece como español, y casa con la mulata Gertrudis Lucinda, hija de Juan de Dios Cisneros y Micaela Gerónima. Me gustaría saber si tienen información acerca de esta familia en la región de Pinos. He visto que otras ramas de mi familia se extienden hacia Ciénega de Mata, Aguascalientes, Asientos, pero hasta ahora no he dado con ninguna coincidencia al respecto de los Vázquez de Mercado.

Adjunto el documento del matrimonio:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-BMCT-C? 

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Who is Cristobal Martinez Lozano de Lara, aka Cristobal Lozano Montesuma?

Published by jrefugioghermosillo –
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In 1685, Pedro D’Asa, resident of Tacotan, was granted a sitio de ganado mayor con ocho caballerias de tierr

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Comentario

Additional information that may help:

1.Juana, daughter of Cristóbal Lozano and doña María de Lara, was baptized in Aguascalientes on 26 May 1654. Her godparents were Jacinto Lozano and doña Ana de Lara. Source: "México, Aguascalientes, registros parroquiales, 1601-1962," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6QQ9-TDZ?cc=1502404&wc=M6Q… : 6 October 2022), Aguascalientes > Asunción de María > Bautismos 1616-1662 > image 200 of 334; parroquias Católicas, Aguascalientes (Catholic Church parishes, Aguascalientes). 

2. Tomás López and María de la Rosa Lozano, 'vecinos de Aguascalientes en el puesto de Juiquinaqui' required a marriage dispensation (7 Feb 1721, Aguascalientes) for the impediment of 'cuarto gardo de consanguinidad'. The relationship from the 'dispensa':

1o grado: Jacinto Lozano hermano carnal de Cristóbal Lozano

2o grado: Ana Lozano prima hermana de José Lozano

3o grado: Tomás López casado con Juana de Soto primo segundo de Cristóbal Lozano casado con Juana Gómez

4o grado: Tomás López, pretenso; María de la Rosa Lozano, pretensa

Source: "México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-1979," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6X9R-D?cc=1874591&wc=3J49-… : 28 June 2014), Guadalajara > Diócesis de Guadalajara > Matrimonios 1712-1721 > image 236 of 670; parroquias Católicas (Catholic Church parishes), Jalisco.

Saludos, Austin Pérez

 

 

 

 

 

 

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WOW! Great work, Austin! And how scandalous! Juana hija de Xptoval Losano and Ma de Lara was baptized on May 26, and if you notice on the same page, baptized just 7 days before, on May 19, was Phelipa hija lexitima de Xptoval Losano y Mariana Gonsales, emphasis on the word “lexitima.” So Cristobal Lozano had a not-so secret 2nd family with someone named Maria de Lara!  

Joseph Lozano cc Petronila Macias

Regarding his son, Joseph Lozano, he married Petronila Macias aka Gonzalez de Gardea on 23 Feb 1666 in Teocaltiche. On most records, he’s categorized as mestizo; when a witness on 29 Oct 1695 for the dispensation of his daughter, Gertrudis Lozano, for her marriage to Diego Aguayo, he gave his age as about 52, placing his birth around 1643. My bet is he is not the son of Mariana Gonzalez de Gardea.

Regarding his daughter’s dispensa, it doesn’t name names, but only states that his father was primo hermano of the mother of the groom, Elvira Gonzalez Hidalgo, who was daughter of Juan Gonzalez Hidalgo cc Ynes Gonzalez Martinez, who herself was daughter of Francisco Gonzalez Martinez cc Magdalena de Lavezaris. Thus:

Cristobal Lozano-1-Francisco Gonzalez
Cristobal Lozano-2-Ynes Gonzalez
Joseph Lozano-3-Elvira Gonzalez
Gertrudis Lozano-4-Diego Aguayo

Another possible interpretation, if it turns out Maria de Isla is daughter of Benito de Isla:

Maria de Isla-1-Magdalena de Lavezaris
Cristobal Lozano-2-Ynes Gonzalez
Joseph Lozano-3-Elvira Gonzalez
Gertrudis Lozano-4-Diego Aguayo

And yet another:

Maria de Isla-1-Maria de Isla hija bastarda
Cristobal Lozano-2-Luisa de Isla
Joseph Lozano-3-Antonio Aguayo
Gertrudis Lozano-4-Diego Aguayo

(According to their marriage record, Antonio Aguayo and Elvira Gonzalez were dispensed - it says “de banas,” meaning they waived the banns, but they were at 3rd degree, since their grandmothers were half-sisters).
[Dispensa de Diego Aguyo cc Gertrudis Lozano:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6K94-R5?i=118&wc=SSKT-MNL ]

Cristobal Lozano cc Juana Gomez

Cristobal Rodriguez aka Lozano married Juana Gomez aka Fuentes on 8 Jul 1687 in Teocaltiche; his parents aren’t named, but she was daughter of Marcos Gomez Portugal and Maria de Fuentes. Now, Joseph Lozano cc Petronila Macias DID have a son named Cristobal, but he was baptized 20 Apr 1681, and he married Maria de Rubalcava Mendoza in 1704. Seeing how Joseph and Petronila married in 1666, my bet is, Cristobal Rodriguez aka Lozano was natural, born before they married, and likely to another woman, hence the “Rodriguez.”

Cristobal Lozano de Moctezuma

Now, besides connecting all of these dots between the supposed illegitimate issue of Cristobal Lozano de Isla, is the appearance of the “Moctezuma” surname among the descendants of Cristobal Lozano and Maria de Isla. The obvious relationship would be through Maria de Isla, and would suggest that she WAS the daughter of Benito de Isla and Juana Navarro, and that the latter WAS the daughter of Petronila. At the same time, this would disprove the hypothesis that Maria de Isla cc Cristobal Lozano was the same as Maria de Isla hija bastarda, since the latter was not Juana Navarro’s daughter (and therefore not a Moctezuma). And if that were the case, Diego Aguayo and Gertrudis Lozano would have been at 3rd degree consanguinity, rather than 4th.

So many puzzle pieces ….

Great work, Austin!

Abrazos,
Manny Díez Hermosillo
 

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The dispensa of Jose Joaquin Delgado cc Nepomucena de Parga, dated 2 Jun 1779, establishes that Joseph Lozano cc Petronila Macias was the son of Cristobal Lozano, and brother of Juan Lozano de Gardea clerigo presbitero, who fathered a natural daughter named Tomasa Lozano cc Nicolas Delgado. A family tree is provided on image 613 showing the following:

Christoval
Juan Lozano -1-Jose Lozano
Thomasa Lozano-2-Juan Antonio Lozano 
Manuel Delgado-3-Ma Socorro Lozano 
Jose Joachin Delgado-4-Juana Nepomucena Parga

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6VCZ-G?i=608&wc=125127…

Saludos,
Manny Díez Hermosillo

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Property records

Published by apozolco –
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Genealogy Research

Hello primos,

Does anyone have any idea where I could find property records.  My great grandfather owned a large amount of land in what was Jalisco in the Tepic department.  How did you buy it?  Was it passed to him?  Was it from a Spanish grant?  Anyone have an idea on where I can start?

Best,

AP

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JUANA NAVARRO, MUJER DE BENITO DE ISLAS: HIJA DE MARTÍN NAVARRO

Published by jrefugioghermosillo –
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Hola prim@s,

This is a group of documents regarding some lands belonging to Andrea Gonzalez Bermejo, wife of Cristobal Barburen, of Teocaltiche: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-6S93-C?i=191&cat=…

The lands were originally granted to Martin Navarro in October 1575 (image 209 btm right); he signed them over to his yerno, Benito de Yslas, as part of the dowry of his daughter, Juana Navarro (image 210 right). She in turn, (beginning on image 195) donated them to Antonio Gonzalez de Rubalcava and to Antonio de Bastidas, husbands of her granddaughters, Juana de Yslas and Magdalena Lozano, respectively, who were daughters of her daughter, Petronila de Yslas, married to Pedro Lozano. The donations were made in 1630, so Juana de Yslas and Magdalena Locano could have been born as late as 1618; you can do the math to figure out the approximate ages of everyone else involved. 
Tantalizing, ain’t it? While it can’t be said with complete certainty that the Martin Navarro

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Hi Alex,

I sure did. And I’m glad you took a look at the document, because your paleographical skills are much better than mine! I thought it said “franco gonzales i m.a [ILL] de Ysla su mujer”. But now that I look at it, it clearly says “franco gonzales en n.e (nombre) de Ben[ito] de Ysla su suegro.” Good eye! https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-6S97-7?i=209&cat=…

Now the question is: if this Benito de Isla IS the same who was father of Magdalena de Lavezaris, Maria de Isla, and Maria de Isla mestiza su hija bastada, which son-in-law is he? Is he Francisco Gonzalez, husband of Maria de Isla mestiza? Or is he Francisco Gonzalez Martinez, husband of Magdalena de Lavezaris?

Thanks, Alex!

Abrazos,
Manny Díez Hermosillo 
 

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Ah it seems my tree is not so built up on this part of the family. All I have is a Benito de Islas m. unk, father of:

Maria de Islas (mestiza) m. unk mother of Luisa de Islas

Maria de Islas d. 1667 m. Andres Martin Sotomayor

Magdalena de Labesares m. Francisco Gonzalez

 

Seems I never located/figured out mestiza Maria's husband

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You are right. Looking at my tree, I have it as unsourced. I don’t know where I got that name from - maybe I picked it up in one of the many discussions had in this forum? Whatever the case, I shouldn’t have mentioned it in this thread - please strike it! I do not know if Maria de Isla mestiza hija bastarda de Benito de Isla ever married, only that she had a daughter name Luisa de Islas!

What we know from this record is, this Benito de Isla also had a son-in-law named Francisco Gonzalez, who presented this title in Benito’s name in 1610, telling us that Benito was still alive that year.

Thanks!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

SIERRA DE PINOS: Eugenio Rufino Galván cc María Dolores Fernández

Published by jrefugioghermosillo –
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After nearly a dozen years of looking for clues, I’ve finally broken down a wall that had perplexed me. My 5g grandparents, Eugenio Rufino Galván and María Dolores Fernández, lived in Sierra de Pinos, Zacatecas, during the last quarter of the 18th century. They also lived part of the time in Real de Catorce, Slp. They first appear in the Pinos parish records on 16 Mar 1776, when their children, Juan Joseph and Maria Josefa, were confirmed. Maria Dolores Fernandez died and was buried 26 Feb 1793 in Pinos; according to her burial record, she was originally from Silao, Gto. Eugenio Galván married a second time, to Maria Micaela Cordoba, on 10 Jun 1793, in Real de Catorce. According to his IM, he was about 53 years old (b. 1740) and he was also from Silao. 
I started dredging the archives of Silao looking for any clues. Though I found some Galvan’s and plenty of Fernandez’s, I could still find no sign of Eugenio Rufino, which is a really unique name. So I put this couple on the backburner

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Who is this Bernardino de Sandoval who was born approximately in the 1630s?

Published by Don Animas –
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Who is this Bernardino de Sandoval who was born approximately in the 1630s? I am not sure if I am reading the documents right, but it seems Jeromino de Sandoval (Magdalena de Lavezares) has a brother name Bernardino.

From the first section of documents, 

  1. Jeromino de Sandoval is the son of Catalina Cortes - image 129 of 512
  2. Juan and Cristobal de Sandoval are brothers, sons of Jeromino de Sandoval - image 130 of 512

Then from second section of documents,  

  1. I believe it says Bernardino de Sandoval is the uncle of Juan de Sandoval - image 325 of 512, left side, third line from the bottom.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-6SH1-F?i=324&cat=278176

From the 1649 padrones, there are 4 Bernardinos present in Nochistlan. 

  1. Bernardino de Isla - decreased by 1690
  2. Bernardino de Sandoval, son of Nicolas de Sandoval - deceased by 1690.
  3. Bernardino de Isla - N
  4. Bernardino de Isla - N


 

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I think in the second set of documents the cited Juan Moscoso Sandoval is alive. Therefore it cannot be the one married to Catalina Cortes nor his son. It does say Bernardino is the "tio" of the Juan Moscoso Sandoval in the documents.

I cannot say for sure who this Bernardino is but he could be of the generation of Juan Moscoso y Sandoval and Catalina Cortes' children or a child of one of their earliest children. He could be a child of Mariana Moscoso y Sandoval Cortes and Bernardino Gonzalez de Islas for example.

 

Sorry I couldnt be much help

 

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From these documents it says that Bernardino de Sandoval (born ~1630s) is the uncle of Juan de Sandoval (son of Jeronimo de Sandoval and Magdalena de Laverazes, husband of Maria Duran) and therefore the brother of Jeronimo de Sandoval (Magdalena de Laverazes), which can then be inferred that this Bernardino de Sandoval is the son of Juan de Moscoso y Sandoval (Catalina Cortes).

The issue is that I am not aware of any other document saying this or suggesting that Juan de Moscoso y Sandoval (Catalina Cortes) had a son named Bernardino de Sandoval.  

From the first section of documents, 

  1. Jeromino de Sandoval is the son of Catalina Cortes (not named Juan de Moscoso y Sandoval) - image 129 of 512
  2. Juan and Cristobal de Sandoval are brothers, sons of Jeromino de Sandoval (not named Magdalena de Laverazes) - image 130 of 512

Then from second section of documents, which includes pretty much the all the same people 

  1.  it says Bernardino de Sandoval is the uncle of Juan de Sandoval (not named Maria Duran) - image 325 of 512, left side, third line from the bottom.


 

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CRISTOBAL NAVARRO - hijo de Martin Navarro y de Petronila de Moctezuma

Published by jrefugioghermosillo –
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Hola prim@s,

In the past couple of years, I’ve been able to accumulate bits and pieces of information regarding the immediate descendants of Cristobal Navarro, which I thought I’d share here.

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When adding dispensas to my tree I generally don't consolidate them with other lines without more information due to name similarities.  As such, I never joined the Rios-Siordia dispensa Manny provided to my tree of confirmed descendants of Martin Navarro and Petronila Moctezuma.

 

IM for Geronimo de los Rios m. Francisca Siordia teaches:

 

Cristobal Navarro         1. Maria Navarro

Maria Navarro              2. Antonio Siordia

Geronimo de los Rios  3. Francisca Siordia

                                     4. Maria de Chaves

                                     5. Francisca Siordia

 

Now I understand the trunk of this tree is supposed to be Martin Navarro and Petronila Moctezuma but I was wondering if there was any "smoking gun" that you all are aware of to prove this (i.e. force consolidation with known lines). I get that Maria Gabai y Moctezuma ( i.e. 1. Maria Navarro m. Pedro Hernandez de Vaulus) had a daughter named Juana Siordia so this is a big indicator this is correct. However Antonio Siordia and Maria Iniguez's marriage record does not name parents. Also when reanalyzing this line I noticed Francisca Siordia m. Juan Chavez Salguero's marriage occurred in 1633 while her parent's occurred in 1631. I thought that was strange!

 

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Hola Alex,

The Geronimo de los Rios cc Francisca Siordia IM is the only document I know of that names Antonio de Siordia’s parent/s. It’s also the only document I know of that names his mother as “Maria Navarro” as opposed to “Maria Gabai” (in all of the Aguascalientes sacramental records, she was called “Maria Gabadi”).

It’s obvious that Francisca de Siordia - and her brother, Nicolas de Siordia, who married in 1643 - were born illegitimately. Francisca as born no later than 1621, since 12 years was the legal marrying age, and her brother, around the same time. They would’ve been legitimized by the 1631 marriage of their parents.

As a young man, Antonio de Siordia rented an estancia de ganado menor located near Mexticacan, which belonged to Diego Mateos. On 24 Oct 1616, during the oidor Don Juan Davalos y Toledo’s visit to Mexticacan, among other transgressions, he received reports that Siordia had been carrying on (amancebado) with a Spanish woman from the pueblo, whose name wasn’t given, to protect her reputation. He’d come into town, stay at her place, she’d cook him meals - you know, scandalous stuff. They were likely ordered to cease and desist. My hypothesis is that Maria Iñiguez was the woman. Source: 207 [Al margen] Contra Antonio de Siordia sobre amancebamiento: https://books.openedition.org/cemca/1599?lang=en

Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Comentario

Ha thats funny I was just reviewing the 1616 document (the original) but my spanish is no where near good enough to understand those details. Thanks for the info. I don't think there will be a "smoking gun" for now but the situation does meet the "more likely than not standard" (very scientific, I know lol).

 

I suspect the non-contemporaneous last name (yet still technically correct) due to the number of generations that had passed

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Thank you Manny. My wife has “De la Cruz” ancestry in San Juan de Los Lagos. Do you know if the De La Cruz from Lagos descends from this line?

Thanks Again for your wonderful work,
Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Manny,

Mr. Ricci's question makes me wonder if you noticed any connection between these de la Cruz's and Maria de la Cruz from San Juan de los Lagos and Jalostotitlan, wife of Lazaro Martin del Campo. She also used the names Lopez de la Cruz, Lopez de Lizaldi and Martin de Sotomayor.

Danny

Comentario

I don’t know if any of their descendants have ended up on Lagos - I’ve only documented grandchildren of Joseph de la Cruz cc Maria Navarro in Teocaltiche and Mexticacan. One of Josepha de la Cruz and Juan de Torres’ daughters, Nicolasa de Torres, married Geronimo Aramburu, and ended up in Tepatitlan, but that’s the only one I’ve seen outside of Teocaltiche and Mexticacan.

Maria Lopez de la Cruz, who married Lazaro Martin del Campo, was daughter of Licenciado Juan Baptista Valli and Maria de Estrada, who were married in Guadalajara in 1601; Maria de Estrada was daughter of Diego Lopez de la Cruz (from whom Maria Lopez de la Cruz got her surname) and Bernardina de Estrada y Alcantara; Diego Lopez de la Cruz was born in Santa Olalla, Toledo, Spain, son of Francisco Lopez de la Cruz and Alfonsina de la Paz, of Santa Olalla, who were early settlers in Guadalajara, Jalisco.

Manny Díez Hermosillo

Comentario

Hola prim@s,

In this post, I am going to touch upon some of the families who descend from Maria Navarro y Gabai and Joseph de la Cruz, most who lived in Teocaltiche. Early church records in Teocaltiche are incomplete, and there are missing years; in some cases, I don’t have specific records sayings so & so was married to so & so, but from using baptism and confirmation records, with known family members appearing as padrinos for children of others, and then cross-referencing them with the 1681 padron, I think I’ve been able to establish certain family groups. But there is still the possibility that I am wrong. So, please keep that in mind. Thanks.

PETRONA NAVARRO cc NICOLAS DE YEPES

From records I have seen, Petrona Navarro is likely the oldest child of Maria Navarro and Joseph de la Cruz. She was obviously named for her great-grandmother, Petronila de Moctezuma. Petrona Navarro was married to Nicolas de Yepes (or Yepez). I have them with six children. Petrona died before 1681, because in the padron of that year, Nicolas de Yepes appears married to Geronima de Gamboa. I don’t know if this union produced any children.

The children of Nicolas de Yepes and Petrona Navarro are:

⁃ Maria de Yepes y Navarro, c. 29 Jun 1648, Teocaltiche; m1. Nicolas de la Mora, 26 Jan 1653, Teocaltiche; m2. Joseph Perez
⁃ Mateo de Yepes, c. 29 Dec 1666, Teocaltiche; m. Olaya Gomez Fuentes, dispensed 20 Apr 1690, Teocaltiche.
⁃ Nicolas de Yepes, m. Ana Perez y Medina.
⁃ Magdalena de Yepes, c. 29 Jun 1648, Teocaltiche; m. Nicolas Chavez, 27 May 1664, Teocaltiche.
⁃ Catalina Navarro de Yepes, c. 29 Jun 1648, Teocaltiche; m. Diego Lopez de Castro.
⁃ Matiana de Yepes, c. 29 Dec 1666, Teocaltiche; m. Juan de Avila.

As far as I can tell, this appears to be the only family in Teocaltiche using the Yepes/Yepez surname during the 1600’s. So if you have this surname in your lines, and they were from Teocaltiche, then you might descend from this family.

THE RODRIGUEZ DE LA MORA CONNECTION

Mª ija de nicolas yepes y de petrona was confirmed on 29 Jun 1648 in Teocaltiche. Maria de Yepes, aka Maria Navarro, married twice, her first husband being Nicolas de la Mora, whom she married on 26 Jan 1653, also in Teocaltiche. Though their parents aren’t named, in some records, their children and grandchildren would use the compound surname “Rodriguez de la Mora”. The Rodriguez de la Mora in that region descend from Juan Rodriguez de la Mora and Isabel Delgadillo Calderon, who lived in Mexticacan, Jalisco. On his burial record, dated 7 Aug 1667, Juan Rodriguez de la Mora was said to have died on the rancho of his son, Nicolas de la Mora, in Mexticacan. Though I can’t be 100% certain that this is the same Nicolas de la Mora who married Maria Yepes, I have found no other record of a Nicolas de la Mora. Suffice to say that, if he is the same person, then Nicolas de la Mora and Maria Yepes and their children lived in Mexticacan, which was then in the jurisdiction of Nochistlan, Zac. At least one of their sons, Juan de la Mora, was living in Mexticacan when he married on 13 Feb 1679.
Nicolas de la Mora was already deceased by the time Juan de la Mora married in 1679, and in 1681, Maria de Yepes was living in Teocaltiche, when her name appears in the padron of that year. She was now married to Joseph Perez. I don’t know when they were married, nor whether this union produced any children.
Maria de Yepes and Joseph Perez appear twice in the 1681 padron, once with him as head of household, and once, with her as head of household:

1681 Teocaltiche padron
Casa de Joseph Peres mestiço, Mª de Iepes su mujer, Lasaro de Plasencia, Juª Rodrigues su mujer, Augustina Yañes su mujer*, Petronila Nabarro, Isabel Rodrigues, Peº Rodrigues de la Mora, Domingo de la Mora

Casa de Mª de Yepes, Joseph Peres su marido, Lasaro de Plasencia, Juª de la Mora su muger, Jů de la Mora

*Augustina Yañez was married to Juan de la Mora, whose name is apparently absent. This was likely an error of the census taker, since it says “su muger,” but Juan de la Mora’s name does appear in the other entry.

With the exception of Juan de la Mora, I have not been able to verify that the other people listed in these padrones were her children, but just in case:

⁃ Juan Rodriguez de la Mora, m. Agustina Yañez, 13 Feb 1679, Nochistlan.
⁃ Juana Rodriguez de la Mora, m. Lasaro Plasencia.
⁃ Domingo de la Mora, m. Ana de Orosco; possibly the same who was married to Maria de Rubalcava. He and Ysabel Rodriguez appeared as padrinos for a child of Lasaro Plasencia and Juana Rodriguez de la Mora.
⁃ Petronila Navarro.
⁃ Ysabel Rodriguez.
⁃ Pedro Rodriguez de la Mora.

POSSIBLE YAÑEZ CONNECTION?

Confirmed on 29 Jun 1648 was Ana, hija de Juan de la Cruz y de Maria Gavai, and her madrina was doña Antonia. I’ve got a feeling that she is the same Ana de la Cruz who was married to Gonzalo Yañez, son of Juan Yañez del Monte and Maria de Medinilla, of Mexticacan. I know that he had contact with this family - on 26 Jan 1653, he was living in Teocaltiche, when he was the padrino for the marriage of Nicolas de la Mora and Maria Navarro, a niece of Ana de la Cruz’s. This was right around the time he would’ve married Ana de la Cruz. I realize that it’s not a lot to go on, and it’s always possible that she is a Cruz Bermejo, but I’ve never seen her nor any of their descendants use the Bermejo surname. I think it’s worth looking into, for any of the descendants of Gonzalo Yañez and Ana de la Cruz.

Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Los Hernández Gamiño

Published by Jesus Ibarra –
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Soy descendiente de don Domingo Hernández Gamiño y Juana Bravo de Laguna, por lo que he estado investigando a esta familia.

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La familia Bravo de Lagunas fue una familia que estaba ligada mediante servicio civil y militar a los duques de Béjar. Una rama pasó a Brabante (actualmente Holanda) estaban relacionados con la familia Ramírez de Coy y probablemente con la familia Rico de Rojas de Querétaro.

Entre los más conocidos estuvo Don Sancho Bravo de Lagunas, alcaide de la fortaleza de Gibraleón.

Otro fue el capitán Juan Bravo de Lagunas, conquistador de México con Hernán Cortés que fue Alcalde Mayor de Chichimecas (Querétaro y Guanajuato) en 1548.

 

 

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Tomas Hernandez Gamiño es HIJO de Cristobal Hernandez Gamiño.

Y

Tomas Hernandez Liebana es HIJO de Tomas Hernandez Gamiño Y nieto de Cristobal Hernandez Gamiño..

se puede ver aqui... y porque necesitaban dispensa 

Juan Antonio Hernandez Lomelin  y Maria Margarita Hernandez Casillas

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/MTK7-BRC

 

 

 

 

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He pasado muchas horas buscando pruebas que sustenten la afirmación del estimado investigador Steven F. Hernández López pero no he tenido éxito. La opinión de este humilde investigador es que acepto los parentescos dados en la dispensa de Juan Antonio Hernández como muy probablemente verdaderas. ¿Qué piensan los demás?

La citada revista fue publicada en 2003. Quizás, en el momento de la publicación del artículo, el señor Steven F. Hernández López no conocía la dispensa de Juan Antonio Hernández. (Tal vez él mismo podría darnos su opinión aquí en este foro).

(i)legitimate child

Published by labananilla –
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Hi everyone! I have a rather specific question. I am having an insight at my third great grandfather (i hope that's right) because I found that he was born out of wedlock in 1806. The registry literally says "legitimate son (I mean) illegitimate son of...", which is not only hilarious but puzzling. Two years later, in 1808, his parents did get married, however, I didn't find any dispensa, AND the registry does say the mother was a maiden. So I wonder what could've happened. Has anyone come across something similar? I'm guessing if they maybe kept it a secret? Also both parents are rather old; the father was 40 and a widow, and the mother was 30, never married. Being a small town in Nochistlán, it seems a bit off. Thanks in advance for your theories!

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Comentario

Hi, I think it's fairly common. In my case, my 3rd grand father (Pedro Navarro AKA Pedro Vivas AKA Pedro Rivas AKA Pedro González) is mentioned as a legitimate child of a Trinidad Navarro and Eugenia Vivas in his marriage information, but in his birth information he's the son of Eugenia Vivas and unknown father. 
To make things more confusing in certain documents he mentions that his father is Luis Gabriel González, but always names his mother as Eugenia Vivas or Rivas. 
Until now I haven't found any dispensa or marriage documents from Eugenia Vivas, so I am guessing the "Legitimate" status in his marriage information may be made up.

Best regards!

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Magdalena Velasco (Cristóbal Hernández Gamiño)

Published by SGarzaAceves –
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Good day,

I trust all are well.  I am searching for the parents of Magdalena Velasco,

Wife of Joseph de Aceves Fernández y Becerra

Mother of Nicolás Aceves y Ruiz de Velasco

(1682 • Ayo El Chico, Jalisco)

Online suggestions indicate her parents were Cristóbal Hernández Gamiño and María de los Ángeles Ruiz de Haro y Velasco.

Would you be so kind as to direct me to sources to aid in my research?

Un cordial saludo,

Sandra Garza Aceves

 

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in her page.

I can't believe spaced it earlier.  It is relevant because you and another person were using that as her supposed name.  Maybe it will help with searches later.  

You can see multiple alternate names, and spelling of names, under the "Other Information" section of her page:  https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/2BLY-LX2

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Oh my!  I was on my phone when I clicked the link you were so kind to send.  Needless to say, I will use all my computer monitors to review this.

Very appreciative does not come close to expressing my gratitude.  

Saludos y bendiciones,

Sandra 

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quite filled out I must say... and, YES, you can see Magdalena's parents there...her name was:

 Magdalena Hernández Velázquez y Ruiz de Haro

Gotta have the right name... otherwise it's a bear.  I'm fairly confident this is what you're looking for????  Well, hopefully....

TREE:   https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/LY99-PPD

Magda's page:  https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/2BLY-LX2

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https://es.geneanet.org/fonds/individus/?go=1&nom=RUIZ+DE+VELASCO+RUIZ&place__0__=Ayo+el+Chico&size=50

 

and here your specific individual.  https://gw.geneanet.org/ayutla?n=de+aceves+y+ruiz+de+velasco&oc=&p=nicolas

some text from that page

Padres

 Casamiento(s) y/e  hijo(s)

 

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Moco/a or Mozo/a?

Published by Roxie4genealogy –
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In the book, "Genealogia de Nochistlan Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII Segun Sus Archivos Parroquiales" I am seeing the term "Moco" and "Moca" throughout and wondering if that is a misspelling of "mozo" and "moza"?  For example, here is an entry from page 104:

Maria Yniguez de Estrada, moca espanola doncella, hija de Lorenzo Mexia . . . (dated 1649 in Nochistlan)

In the 1998 edition of Spanish Colonial Terms (by Ophelia Marquez & Lilian Ramos Navarro Wold), they included the term "Mozo" and "Moza" as follows.  That seems to fit within the context here.  

Does anyone know the referenced term?  Thank you!

Mozo;Youth, young man, lad, bachelor; manservant. A younger person with the same name, usually related.
Moza;Younger woman.
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you did not add a link to check, but when I see things like this I go look at other entries by the same scribe to see if I notice a pattern.... if there is a pattern by this particular scribe then it would likely be a valid assumption.

Introduction

Published by sledezma1 –
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Hello Nuestro Primos,

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Hola Prima. I too have been researching my Pacheco lineage and haven't been able to move beyond the 1850s. It's crazy.

I've done my DNA testing through MyHeritage, Ancestry.com, and am about to send a sample to 23andme later today or tomorrow.

I've found it very difficult tracing the Pacheco lineage.

¡Buena suerte!

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Hola,

Yes I started both my dads and mom's side of the family at once and sometimes I get caught up with the Ledesma side. There is not too many Pacheco's around where I live ( California) and I have only found only so much on my Pacheco side. I did my my DNA as well with Ancestry com and am all over the place but my indegenious side indicates from Zacatecas, Jalisco side. I will let you know if I find anything interesting.

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Hola,

Yes I started both my dads and mom's side of the family at once and sometimes I get caught up with the Ledesma side. There is not too many Pacheco's around where I live ( California) and I have only found only so much on my Pacheco side. I did my my DNA as well with Ancestry com and am all over the place but my indegenious side indicates from Zacatecas, Jalisco side. I will let you know if I find anything interesting.

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That's awesome! Yeah, I know about the lack of. I too lived in Cali a while back.

Good luck with your research! Looking forward to reading about it. Take care.

Locating a Testamento in the Zacatecas Archives

Published by Alicat_2025 –
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There is a list of notarial documents from Zacatecas on this website that were translated by Jaime Holcombe. One referred to a "testamento" in Zacatecas for a Margarita Tinoco. Does anyone know how to obtain or view the actual document online instead of the summary of it? Thanks.

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Have you looked in the archives of Guadalajara? Don’t forget: Zacatecas was part of the Kingdom of Nueva Galicia during the viceroy period, whose capital was Guadalajara, and some of its historical archives are available online.These archives are not indexed, so you’ll have to go through the individual rolls of film.

Here are the testamentos, 1500-1895: https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/130231?availability=Family%…

And here are the notary archives. Some testamentos, codicils, and probate records can be found among them: 
1583-1674: https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/198356?availability=Family%…
1606-1903: https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/35680?availability=Family%2…

Here’s another resource that I came upon that I found useful for at least one of my ancestors, it’s an archives of testamentos and probate records from 16th century Zacatecas: http://ru.juridicas.unam.mx/xmlui/handle/123456789/9366

If the individuals were peninsulars living in the new world, some “bienes de difuntos” can be found at the PARES website, Make sure you select the Archivo General de Indias in the filter: http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/search

I hope you find these useful - good luck!

Manny Díez Hermosillo

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Thank you, Manny. This opens up a new world for me. I was feeling so discouraged lately. I have ancestors in the Cd, de Durango in the early 1600s and it became obvious they were mixing with people from Zacatecas. It seemed logical that they too would come from there, but the church records didn't go back far enough on Familysearch. Some of the surnames with connections to Zacatecas were Tinoco y Tello, Ortiz de San Pedro, and Valle. The surnames Tello and Valle appeared in a link to one of the the testamentos from UNAM that you sent. I have a lot of work to do!

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Thank you, but a testamento (a will)  is a notarial record and not included in church records. Familysearch only had a phone number for the Zacatecas historical state archive. I was hoping there is a way to view or order archive items online. Some American universities have Mexican archives, but so far I haven't been able to find any. I am finding that it's impossible to find Zacatecas church records for the early 1600s. Has anyone out there had any luck finding those?

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Jose Jesus Najar b.1760 Jalostotitlan

Published by maestrasolorio –
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   I am getting stymied with Jose Jesus Najar(b1760), father Manuel, mom Maria Gertrudis, married Maria de los Dolores 1780 Jalostotitlan.  I am finding multiple surnames for the mother and wife.  If anyone can help me keep moving back I would appreciate it.

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Looks like the name is JOSEPH DE JESUS NAJAR SANCHEZ and he married Maria de los Dolores Moya Y Plasencia on 05 FEB 1780 at Nuestra Senora De La Asuncion, Jalostotitlan, Jalisco, Mexico, and his parents were MANUEL NAJAR and MARIA GERTRUDIS SANCHEZ.    

  https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/MTLL-1TK

Maria de los Dolores Moya Y Placencia has parents named Manuel Moya and it seems like the mother's first name, "Maria Gertrudis", is assumed ...but her surname "Plasencia' appears to carry forward when mentioned in other children and grandchildren birth records.  The mother's name "Maria Gertrudis" is mentioned in the marriage record but it could be a transcription error since the grooms mother's first name is also "Maria Gertrudis".....  Anyway, there it is...hope it helps.

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   I have seen that, but the thing is, the records list Dolores Moya or Dolores Plasencia, never Dolores Moya y Plasencia.  Only in the pedigree chart do you see the two names together.   I have yet to find a record that lists Dolores' parents and Jesus Najar.

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as you will note when following mexican genealogy there is a lot of flexibility in using either the mother's or the father's surname.  it is not atypical to see that, sometimes they would use the surname of the mothers ONLY since the father's surname is assumed in the childs name..... really quite annoying..  

what makes it look valid is the chidlren and grandchildren records where the surnames are mentioned.  ..... however, you are correct .. I am not sure if the Plasencia name is valid...  or if somehow it got conflated into the the tree...

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Alonso Perez Toriello

Published by Anónimo (no verificado) –
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I read the document that confirms that the parents of Alonso Perez Toriello are Diego Rodriguez de Herrera and Ysavel Hernandez Muñoz.    This leads back to the Perstrello family in Portugal which was originally Pallestrelli from Italy.  
 

This Alonso Perestrello (Alonso Perez Toriello) is an ancestor of the Franco, PerezFranco, Perez de Paredes, Franco Perez family in Los Altos de Jalisco. 

Rick A. Ricci

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Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Dom, 2016-09-18 12:41 | Enlace permanente

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Though I am not sure that Alonso Pérez toriello is the son of of Diego Rodriguez Herrera and Isabel Hernandez Munoz as Jaime Holcombe claims, I am not adding Andres Perez and Maria Torillo as his parents until I can see where this information is coming from.

Jaime Holcombe did not say he was guessing, he wrote that Alonso Pérez toriello is the son of of Diego Rodriguez Herrera and Isabel Hernandez Munoz.

I have left his parents as "disputed" in my records.

Thanks
R.A. Ricci

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This is a document identifies Alonso Perez Toriello (Perestrello/ Pallestrelli) parents as the son of Diego Rodriguez Muñoz and Isabel Hernandez Muñoz.   This document is proof that Jaime Holcombe was correct when he identified his parents.


https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-K2SY-T4?i=456&cc=1883388


Rick A. Ricci

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Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Dom, 2016-09-18 06:16 | Enlace permanente

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Some of the Rodriguez Herrera family left Portugal and went to Castilla when some family members were involved in a conspiracy against the Portuguese crown. Not all family members were involved in the conspiracy, but many were under suspicion so some members, even though they were not involved, felt more comfortable moving out of the country. After a few years many of them returned to Portugal, while others decided to stay in Castilla.

I am not arguing that Jaime Holcombe was correct when he said Alonso Pérez toriello was the son of of Diego Rodriguez Herrera and Isabel Hernandez Munoz becauseI don't know for sure who his parents are. I had assumed that he was correct when I researched Diego Rodriguez Herrera and Isabel Hernandez Munoz. It was the research into this family that provided much information that I would later use when looking for other lines in my family such as Toribio Hernandez Arellano and Carlo Lomellini.

R.A.Ricci

Does anyone know what this means?

Published by LauraVilla107 –
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Hello, I am looking at a baptism record for a brother of my 5th great grandfather. I have attached the record and also here is the link: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-GYLD-7?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3A6D2Z-7KX6&action=view 

The child's name is Joesph Maria Cleofas Ledesma. The entry is the last one (bottom right page). 

The part I need help with is this... After his name it says "espanol de los ???" I don't know what the next word is and I am wondering if it is signifigant. 

Thank you!

Laura

 

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baptism record (1.2 MB)

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Colonia Pedro Raygoza (Los Sauces), Tabasco, Estado de Zacatecas, Mexico

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/99655+Colonia+Pedro+Raygoza,+Zacatecas,+Mexico/@21.8982893,-103.0098734,12z/data=!4m22!1m15!4m14!1m6!1m2!1s0x842838f81653a683:0x4c67b8b018da6f4e!2sHuanusco,+Zacatecas,+Mexico!2m2!1d-102.975219!2d21.7737943!1m6!1m2!1s0x84282f7896029679:0x79e25071df3b8b20!2s99655+Colonia+Pedro+Raygoza,+Zacatecas,+Mexico!2m2!1d-102.9836111!2d21.9577777!3m5!1s0x84282f7896029679:0x79e25071df3b8b20!8m2!3d21.9577777!4d-102.9836111!16s%2Fg%2F11c2jb770l?entry=ttu

 

used to be Los Sauces

https://mapcarta.com/es/30081588

jpg of los sauces
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