Nuestros Ranchos Site

#1
AP Valentin Sanchez y Juana Frausta
AM Teodoro Herrera y Guadalupe Carrasca (sic)

#2
AP Valentin Sanchez y Juana Frausta
AM Francisco Herrera y Guadalupe Carrasco

PAD: Julian Gonzales y Rafaela Gonzales

Robert,

Where is Guadalupe del Paso, in New Mexico or in Zacatecas? or other?

Thanks,
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: "rmartinez456@comcast.net"
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 2:59 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ruiz de Esparza and Marungo familias

Hola! My names is Robert Martinez in Albuquerque, Nuevo Mexico. I am researching my mother's family and one of her branches reaches into the Zacatecas and Jalisco areas, with the surnames Ruiz de Esparza and Marungo. Here is my folder: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/robmartinez.

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Luis_Soyatl%C3%A1n

In that link you can find Soyatlan, I hope you can understand I´m in a
hurry so I cant translate it

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:50 PM, wrote:

> Some of my relatives were born in Sollatlan (frequently it is written as
> Soyatlan), Tamazula de Gordiano, Jalisco. Some come from Sollatlan de
> Adentro and others from Sollatlan de Afuera. Does anyone know what that
> means? Thanks.
> Juan Manuel Carrillo Guerrero

Juan, I do research in Tamazula and Zapotlan that always includes some family being from Soyatlan de Adentro and Afuera. What families are you researching? I have no idea what it means either.
Linda Castanon-Long
Gutierrez/Mendez/Munguia and many others

________________________________
From: "rcafartista@gmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 8:50 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sollatlan (Soyatlan), Tamazula de Gordiano, Jalisco

Some of my relatives were born in Sollatlan (frequently it is written as Soyatlan), Tamazula de Gordiano, Jalisco. Some come from Sollatlan de Adentro and others from Sollatlan de Afuera. Does anyone know what that means? Thanks.
Juan Manuel Carrillo Guerrero

Hola

De acuerdo con la pagina "pueblosamerica.com", hay un "Capulin de los Salinas" en Tepetongo, Zacatecas. En el link de abajo esta el link hacia el mapa con la ubicacion, no es mucha informacion, pero espero que te ayude un poco, por lo menos en ubicarlo en un mapa.

http://mexico.pueblosamerica.com/i/capulin-de-los-salinas/

Roberto Hdez

Denise Fastrup

Hi Alice

I am reading a book titled Soldiers, Indians, and Silver (1952) which describes the settlement of Nuevo Galicia, an area that included Guadalajara, Zacatecas, San Luis Potosi, and reached up to Saltillo. In this book the author, Phillip Wayne Powell, describes how christianized indians from central mexico (mexicas, tlaxcalans, and otomi) were encouraged to move up into these areas in an attempt to pacify the rebellious and warlike tribes of the Gran Chichimeca,who inhabited areas where the Spanish were interested in mining for silver.

These indians were granted special privileges such as the right to ride a horse, use a Spanish sword, and be free of tribute for a number of years, in addition to being granted land. Some of them who were already acknowledged as caciques where they originally came from, were also referred to in historical documents with the title "Don". So it is understandable that in a settlement where the overwhelming majority of residents were Otomi who still used their own language, the records would be written in Otomi.In a previous post, I cited an article which documented the switching of ethnic identities - the same person being referred to as Spanish in one document and Indian in another. I have learned that "Don" does not necessarily mean "Spanish" - and Spanish can (exception more than the rule) mean hispanized rather than strictly genetically Spanish.

Regards,
Denise

 Hi Laura,
I'm not at all familiar with Otomi, but I also thought it might be an indigenous language. However, I then wondered why the baptismal entries labeled as the espanoles would be in any other language than Spanish.  There were several different priests that performed these baptisms and all the entries, in different handwriting, are in this language.  Was this an order of priests from the same region of Spain that spoke another language?  I'm intrigued and would love to know...What is this language?! 
Thanks again,  Alice

--- On Tue, 6/19/12, mayangrl@sonic.net wrote:

From: mayangrl@sonic.net
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Language
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tuesday, June 19, 2012, 5:42 AM

I'm guessing Otomi.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otomi_people

Laura Gonzalez

Thanks so much for the information!
This is what I have in my genealogy :

MANUEL ROMO was born (date and place unknown). He married MARIA YGNACIA RODRIGUEZ 21 Feb. 1816 in Nadadores, Coah., daughter of Juan Rodriguez and Maria Thomasa Valdes. She was born (date unknown) in and died (date and place unknown).

Their son (Don) Thomas married Maria Luciana Espinosa, and her grandparents' surnames are: (paternal) Espinosa, Araujo, and (maternal)de la Garza and Tijerina. If any of these are also in yours, please let me know.

I have other interesting info from a book I am reading, on language use which I will put in a separate post.

Regards
Denise

Deedra,

I'm glad that you've found all this information of our ancestors during all this time. I had not had time to continue my investigations in Genealogy because recently I had many academical tasks to do but I'll be back during all this vacations. I thank you for this data, I know that finding the burial records is harder because they aren't indexed. Have you found any information regarding to the parents of Gertrudis Caro y Rentería who's the paternal grandmother of the Antonio Rosales we talking of?

Thank you again, hope to hear from you soon

Enrique Salvador Agraz

Hola Salvador,

En mis investigaciones del Capitan Pedro ENRIQUEZ TOPETE (mi antepasado) tambien me tope con Francisoc RICO y DELORME. En www.topete.org, he subido un arbol que muestra a tu antepasado.

Creo tener algunos datos mas sobre el Lic. RICO y DELORME y voy a buscarlos y compartire lo que tenga aqui. Quisiera tambien pedirte si tienes el GEDCOM del los RICO y DELORME para poder completar el ramo y pues como sabes, beneficiaria a otros.

Hasta pronto,

Pedro Topete

*Arturo,*
*It's available at NR under "Files" tab, "Books & Articles": *
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/13650 *
*
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 6:27 PM, wrote:

> Hello,
> I came across an old posting which stated that the 1650 (and other?)
> Census for Tlaltenango had been posted online on yahoo.com. But that
> yahoo group is no longer active and I haven't been able to find the scans
> on nuestrosranchos.org
>
> Does anyone have a copy of the Census for Tlaltenango for the 17th & 18th
> centuries? I've already looked at the 1773 Census, which is available
> online at the Guadalajara Diocesis, but am hoping to look at other years.
>
> Thanks, Arturo Gonzalez -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>
> To post, send email to:
> research(at)NuestrosRanchos.**com
>
> To change your subscription, log on to:
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>

Hi,

I sent an inquiry to the president of NGGS about meetings and such, and never received a response. Is the email listed for Hernandez no longer valid?

Laura Gonzalez

Raquel,

Everything has a price and anyone can be bought, including church clerics, not just at the time but in today's time.

As for the padre no conocido. I have a 5 GGgrandfather whose marriage investigation said he was hijo natural de Maria Felipa Gonsalez and then I go back and find his parents marriage records, Joseph Antonio Ruiz Cortez, con Maria Phelippa Gonzales on 15 Nov 1731. Go figure, it was most likely a clerical error in the entry.

Alicia

________________________________
From: Raquel Ruiz
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 7:40 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Padres no conocidos

Thanks to a distant cousin's research on our Durango family line, I learned
that an ancestor which was labeled as "padre no conocido" had her father
later identified as part of her marriage information and dispensation
process in 1708.  I was shocked to learn that the Church gave her and her
uncle dispensation to marry.  She was the illegitimate child of his
brother.  I guess the moral of the genealogy story is not to assume the
line is lost until all the data is in.  What it says about the Church at
that place and time is another matter.

Laura,

Yes, you can do pretty much the same research at home that you can do at your local Family History or at the Main Library in Salt Lake City.

The difference is that there are staff members at the centers and the library, who are willing to help one in their research. Of course depending on the center there may be a staff member who specializes, in the area that you are researching. And they would be willing to help you in anyway that they can.

Also, as it was stated, not all the microfilm have been digitized yet. So if you, want to get access to those undigitized images, you need to order the microfilm and read. And you can only have access to the microfilm at your local Family History Center. And the Library in Salt Lake, has a big collection of books. Some of those have been digitized, some have been mircofilmed, and the others are sitting on the bookselves, in the library. And the only way to have access to the books, is by going to the Library in Salt Lake, since they don't do inter-library loans.

But, what is the most important thing is. Is get to know the local Family History Center, and get to know what resources, that they have available beyond FamilySearch.org .

In the Family History Centers, their work is to help people do their genealogical research. They have been instructed not to preach to the non-LDS patrons, unless the patron specifically requests more information.

As, to keeping records. That is pretty much, a personal preference. Some people enjoy having paper copies of everything and some don't. There are several genealogical software packages out there, to choose from. What I would suggest, is to find something that works for you, and does what you want it to do. And then follow it.

I hope that this helps. If I or anyone else in the group can help you further, feel free to ask.

Jonathan

Randy McNeal, I scan all of my documents but I also have files of the paper documents I get. The files are by family lines. I find this easier since so many of my lines have the same last names in them. The only time this becomes a problem is when families combine then I print another copy and keep going by line. I also have a geneology program that I attach the documents to.

Yes, I have visited my local FHCs as well as the main one in Salt Lake City. Everyone is very nice and helpful. They are anxious for you to share your genealogical information and they have much to share with you---their PAF genealogy program that I have in my computer, and CDs of family trees they have gathered.

No, they don't try to convert you, but if you ask about their practices and beliefs they will tell you. They will give you a tour of their facilities in the temples except for some areas where only members are allowed.

One thing they did not tell me is that everyone in their microfilms has been baptized and "sealed" via their Baptism for the Dead, the reason they went worldwide microfilming the documents they did, so in a way it is conversion after the death. Google that for more information.

Since many of their microfilms are not online yet, it is worthwhile to go and ask the local FHC to send for some films to be reviewed by you; they have microfilm readers, copiers, etc. They also have genealogy help books and forms.

What has worked for me in organizing my print-outs is to have a binder for each line with dividers for the different types of documents----pedigree charts, descendancy reports, photos, maps, border crossings, WWI and WWII registrations, census, baptisms, marriages, deaths, messages, etc.

Looks like you are off to a good start.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

--------------------------------------------------------

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mayangrl@sonic.net
> Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 23:18:14 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Visiting LDS Family Search Centers & keeping records
>
> I was wondering if anyone has visited their local LDS family search center. What's different from what you find online at familysearch.org? Is it worthwhile to go? One's here in town, and I'm debating. Will they try to convert me? ;-p
>
> Also, how do people organize their genealogy papers? Besides online, I like to keep physical copies, because it's easier to look and find stuff. Do people have a different binder per person/family/etc?
>
> Just started doing this and not sure what would be best way. Currently have paternal and maternal binders, with dividers for direct descendents, followed by siblings, next generation, siblings, etc. I also have maps in the binder.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>

Mayangrl,

I have not visited a family search center since the records went on-line. I found the people volunteering at any of the centers to be very kind and extremely helpful and not once did anyone try to convert me. Some of them even became friends.

I no longer print hard copies. I copy the records I need from family search and save them on an external hard drive. I file the records according to the film number/type of record whether birth, marriage, info matrimonial etc. In my notes on PAF I make a complete source notation such as film#, image#, folio or page#, item#, therefore I can go to my hard drive and with the film# and all other pertinent information I can easily find it. I do all of this at the time I find the record, it's time consuming but it works very well for me.

For example: I have separate folders. labeled as such: 226665-Bapt-Nochis-Vol#35-1837
for each file going into this folder I include the following. I don't use the birth date because it's not always easy to see, sometimes they say 10 dias nacido. I want to see the name of the file and be able to open up the record and easily see the baptism date, person's name etc and in this way I know I've accessed the correct record.

Name of person, Image#, Page#, Baptism Date, name of rancho or locality within the jurisdiction.

Example: Ma Gertrudis Ibarra-Img237-Pg62-3-27-1837-Monte Duranes

I always use the same sequence of data for each file, in this way I can always file it and find it.

Each one of us will find a way that works for us. What works for me may not work for someone else. You need to attend one of Nueva Galicia's genealogy conferences. We have speakers who help us with record saving and record retrieval ideas, tips and suggestions.

Good luck in your search,

Alicia,

San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: "mayangrl@sonic.net"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 11:18 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Visiting LDS Family Search Centers & keeping records

I was wondering if anyone has visited their local LDS family search center.  What's different from what you find online at familysearch.org?  Is it worthwhile to go?  One's here in town, and I'm debating.  Will they try to convert me? ;-p

Also, how do people organize their genealogy papers?  Besides online, I like to keep physical copies, because it's easier to look and find stuff.  Do people have a different binder per person/family/etc? 
Just started doing this and not sure what would be best way.  Currently have paternal and maternal binders, with dividers for direct descendents, followed by siblings, next generation, siblings, etc.  I also have maps in the binder.

Thanks!

You didn't post your name so I have no idea what to call you.
 
You are one of the lucky ones who can now get all the information online instead of going to a history center for Mexican records. 
I spent 16 years going to history centers, ordering film at $6. a film, wait up to 6 weeks for it to arrive, be able to view it for 30 days or pay another $6 to keep it another month and was happy to do it! Like you in the beginning I had loads of paper work and file after file and reams of paper. And NO, not one person ever tried to convert me but they were more than willing to help me find information and answer genealogy questions. I would suggest you do whatever works for you. I use the Family Tree Maker for my records and put all my information in there since it keeps track of families and blood lines.
 
Marriage dispensations were for blood relationships and any offense that caused a couple to seperate and wanted to marry again. You may be surprised how many blood relatives you have so making seperate files gets complicated since they are on your Mother and Fathers side. My 4 Caldera ancestors go back to the same family.  I'm sure you will get more than one example of how people arrange and keep or share files.
 
good luck in your search for ancestors
Linda Castanon-Long in Gold River, B.C.

________________________________
From: "mayangrl@sonic.net"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 11:18 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Visiting LDS Family Search Centers & keeping records

I was wondering if anyone has visited their local LDS family search center.  What's different from what you find online at familysearch.org?  Is it worthwhile to go?  One's here in town, and I'm debating.  Will they try to convert me? ;-p

Also, how do people organize their genealogy papers?  Besides online, I like to keep physical copies, because it's easier to look and find stuff.  Do people have a different binder per person/family/etc? 
Just started doing this and not sure what would be best way.  Currently have paternal and maternal binders, with dividers for direct descendents, followed by siblings, next generation, siblings, etc.  I also have maps in the binder.

Thanks!

Before all of the records were on-line we all had to go to order the individual films and view them after they arrived about a week later. The benefit of going to your local center is that the people who run them, though volunteers, are very friendly and knowledgeable. They may have access to some books that have been donated. No, they don't try to convert you. Now if you have a chance to go to one of the more metropolitan centers, ie Los Angeles, and especially the parent center in Utah, you will find everything. Deedra Corona

I'm guessing Otomi. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otomi_people

Laura Gonzalez

Yes, I do, Arturo. When I get a chance, I'll send you a scanned copy.

Rosalinda

-----Original Message-----
>From: Arturo Ramos
>Sent: Feb 28, 2006 7:42 AM
>To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Cristobal Magallanes Jara
>
>Does anybody in the group have a copy of Esteban Valdes Salazar's pamphlet on Saint Cristobal Magallanes Jara's genealogy? I know that somebody in the group shared a scan of the cover with me early on... but I was wondering if someone had the content as well... particularly the Magallanes side. I have the Jara side from Esteban Valdes' Jaras de Totatiche book going pretty far back... That is available in my online database if anyone is interested:
>
>http://www.ramosfamily.org/nextgen/pedigree.php?personID=I730

Alice,

Here is a list of the filming locations for that film:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1566501/locations

They filmed in Mexico City (even in the Chapultepec Castle), Puebla, Durango, San Luis Potosi, and Sombrerete in Zacatecas. My father used to talk about Sobrerete and Fresnillo. He was born in Jerez, but he left Mexico in 1913 when he was 10 years old, so he was not there during the Cristiada wars.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

------------------------------------

> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:11:57 -0700
> From: alice_wissing@yahoo.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Question About For Greater Glory Movie
>
> I know a lot of people in this group have lived or traveled in Jalisco and the Los Altos region. Sadly, I am not one of them. I am curious if anybody recognized any of the locations that appeared in the film "For Greater Glory"? I tried searching on the Internet for specific information regarding filming locations but nothing turned up. I read some of the battles were filmed at actual locations. Also, what happened to the expert on the Cristero Rebellion, Steven Hernandez? He did a Masters thesis on it. I would love to hear his opinion about the film. I remember a long time ago he would leave posts on Nuestros Ranchos that were really interesting.

Denise,
The phrase means: "Raised in the house of", a child the was not a natural born to the family.
You can find many other useful phrases in "COMPILATION Of COLONIAL SPANISH TERMS And DOCUMENT RELATED PHRASES" at www.somosprimos.com/spanishterms
Good luck!
Esteban Pedroza

> From: research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Research Digest, Vol 77, Issue 13
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 15:07:47 -0700
>
> Send Research mailing list submissions to
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> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> DAILY DIGEST
> ****************************************
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Hard to read Marriage doc of Jose Maria Romo and
> Sirilda/Cirilia Santos assistance, please (thyme2be@yahoo.com)
> 2. mtDNA Haplogroup Database - NR Members - UPDATED FILE POSTED
> (guadalajaradispensas@gmail.com)
> 3. Re: Hard to read Marriage doc of Jose Maria Romo and
> Sirilda/Cirilia Santos assistance, please (Armando)
> 4. MIramontes (eltobias2003@hotmail.com)
> 5. Re: Miramontes from Tlaltenango (Joseph Puentes)
> 6. Need help from the experts on how to read the surnames on
> this marriage information (amiklova@san.rr.com)
> 7. expuesto y criado en la casa (hernandez.fastrup@gmail.com)
> 8. Re: expuesto y criado en la casa (Alicia Carrillo)
> 9. New Member / Munoz (rlm99x@yahoo.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 17:27:44 -0700 (PDT)
> From: thyme2be@yahoo.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hard to read Marriage doc of Jose Maria
> Romo and Sirilda/Cirilia Santos assistance, please
> Message-ID:
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> The scribe at this church has interesting penmanship, that I am having a hard time reading.
>
>
> Marriage of Jose Mar?a Romo and Sirilda Santos (hard to read document)
> 10 Mar 1820
> El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11709-81325-1?cc=1410092&w…
>
> I hope that the link works..
> information is on pages 30-218 to 31-218
>
> I cannot read their parents names clearly:
> Pedro Romo-father
> ? -mother
> where in the city?
>
> which Rancho did Sirilda/Cirilia Santos come from?
>
> Florencino? Santos-father
> ? - mother
>
>
> Maybe I am trying too hard, my eyes are crossed...
>
> Thank you,
> Debra Perez
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:44:49 -0700 (PDT)
> From: guadalajaradispensas@gmail.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] mtDNA Haplogroup Database - NR Members -
> UPDATED FILE POSTED
> Message-ID:
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> In the "Files" tab, "Reference Materials"
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/20642
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 20:24:04 -0500
> From: Armando
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hard to read Marriage doc of Jose
> Maria Romo and Sirilda/Cirilia Santos assistance, please
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Pedro Romo Espa?ol soltero de Cobos (a rancho) hijo legitimo de Pedro Romo
> y de Antonia Santoio (Santoyo) con Sirilda Santos Espa?ola Doncella de
> dicho rancho (Cobos) hija legitima de Florentino Santoyo y de Josefa Marques
>
>
> Saludos
> Armando
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 7:27 PM, wrote:
>
> > The scribe at this church has interesting penmanship, that I am having a
> > hard time reading.
> >
> > Marriage of Jose Mar?a Romo and Sirilda Santos (hard to read document)
> > 10 Mar 1820
> > El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,**Aguascalientes,Mexico
> > https://familysearch.org/pal:/**MM9.3.1/TH-266-11709-81325-1?**
> > cc=1410092&wc=6810707
> >
> > I hope that the link works..
> > information is on pages 30-218 to 31-218
> >
> > I cannot read their parents names clearly:
> > Pedro Romo-father
> > ? -mother
> > where in the city?
> >
> > which Rancho did Sirilda/Cirilia Santos come from?
> >
> > Florencino? Santos-father
> > ? - mother
> >
> >
> > Maybe I am trying too hard, my eyes are crossed...
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Debra Perez
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.**com
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 19:01:28 -0700 (PDT)
> From: eltobias2003@hotmail.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] MIramontes
> Message-ID:
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Did Ysidro and Bernarda have a son names, Teodoro?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:46:58 -0400
> From: "Joseph Puentes"
> To:
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Miramontes from Tlaltenango
> Message-ID: <085901cd49d7$f7ed4210$e7c7c630$@rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Do any of your Miramontes happen to come from a rancho called Rio de
> Cuculiten in the Tlaltenango area?
>
> I've updated my folder adding my information on my Miramontes from
> Tlaltenango. I haven't done very much research on this line but Arturo Ramos
> has written a book on the various families from this area. I've also update
> my Leanos and Muro family trees in my folder:
>
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/makas_nc
>
> Ysidro and my Francisco probably new each other or were even cousins, maybe
> we are too.
>
> Joseph
>
> =========================
>
> Joseph Puentes
> Clean@h2opodcast.com
> http://h2opodcast.com
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-
> > bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of sr92809@sbcglobal.net
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 12:09 AM
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Miramontes from Tlaltenango
> >
> > Hello Everyone,
> > I know this family line has been talked about before on here.
> > I was recently able to trace my great-grandmother's family all the way
> back to a Ysidro
> > Miramontes who married Bernarda de Avila on
> > Jan.21,1709 in Tlaltenango, Zac. The record states his parents are Lorenzo
> de Miramontes
> > and Maria de Santiago.
> > Using the Gedcom database on here I found a Lorenzo Miramontes but he's
> married to an
> > Ana Diaz de Santiago. The name is somewhat similar and I wonder if they
> are the same
> > couple. Ysidro Miramontes is not listed in the Tlaltenango Families
> database but I believe
> > he could be their son. Any helpful information would be appreciated.
> >
> > Gustavo Carrillo
> >
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:22:35 -0700 (PDT)
> From: amiklova@san.rr.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need help from the experts on how to read
> the surnames on this marriage information
> Message-ID:
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> The following is what I received from one of the California Missions of my ancestors on their marriage:
>
> On May25th, 1859 Francisco Carrizosa 34, native of Tujuta Son. residing in el Rancho of San Jose, widower of Jesus Celaya of Jose & Pabla (Paula) Gastelo with Micaela Manzanero, 36 widow of Franco. Bustamante also of sonora of Pedro & Concepcion Ortiz, living in S. Jose, Ramon Andrade & Maria del Carmen Guillen witness.
>
> I am not sure who Jose & Paula Gastelo are related to. Are they the parents to Francisco Carrisosa or to Jesus Celaya? The other question is, is the surname Gastelo the maiden name to Paula and assuming Jose's surname is Carrisosa or Celaya? I have the same questions for Pedro & Concepcion Ortiz.
>
> Thank you. Anna Miklovic
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:06:57 -0700 (PDT)
> From: hernandez.fastrup@gmail.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] expuesto y criado en la casa
> Message-ID:
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Hi
>
> I sometimes see this phrase:
>
> EXPUESTO Y CRIADO EN LA CASA
>
> What does it mean in English?
>
> For whoever can help me with it, thanks!
>
> Denise
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:13:07 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Alicia Carrillo
> To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] expuesto y criado en la casa
> Message-ID:
> <1339693987.73567.YahooMailNeo@web181701.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> It means the child was abandoned and left at their doorstep and raised in the home or hacienda where it was left.
>
>
> Alicia,
> San Jose, Ca
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "hernandez.fastrup@gmail.com"
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 10:06 AM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] expuesto y criado en la casa
>
> Hi
>
> I sometimes see this phrase:
>
> EXPUESTO Y CRIADO EN LA CASA
>
> What does it mean in English?
>
> For whoever can help me with it, thanks!
>
> Denise

It means the child was abandoned and left at their doorstep and raised in the home or hacienda where it was left.

Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: "hernandez.fastrup@gmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 10:06 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] expuesto y criado en la casa

Hi

I sometimes see this phrase:

EXPUESTO Y CRIADO EN LA CASA

What does it mean in English?

For whoever can help me with it, thanks!

Denise

Dear Carmen, thank you for sharing your family's stories. It must have been very sad for them indeed, obviously.
A couple years ago I started tracing my roots and traveled to Tepatitlán and Los Altos, bringing back a bunch of books. I read Anacleto Gonzalez Flores, by Alberto Casillas, among many others. Needless to say, it hurts, very much so. He was executed. Then the group hired the general to train and lead the Cristeros. Exactly how and why he was killed is still not clear to this day. I became interested when I accidentally found the general's father's death record in Family Search in Texas. So I naturally traced all his family, some my dear relatives today. Both Anacleto and General Gorostieta are well documented in Wikipedia now. Anacleto's is much more complete in Spanish.
The movie, while often historically inaccurate, was very good because it shed light on the issue. There have been many books written in spanish by those who witnessed that war first hand, whose parents and grandparents participated. Tears are quite appropriate, to say the least. I felt outraged.
But we also know there are usually two or more sides to every story. Nothing is ever black and white, or entirely right or wrong, I think. Sometimes I take sides with one group and other times with another. After analyzing so many records just in Family Search, I believe the status quo had to change somehow, and I am not saying it is better now, just different. I live in Monterrey, Mexico, and am currently reading about the State of Nuevo Leon 1822-1850. It sounds familiar. It resembles Jalisco. Power was in the hands of the same few, mainly the Catholic Church, which certainly did a lot of good, but these were people too, both ordinary and extraordinary. Those were different times. Nothing lasts forever. Thank God!
Difficult when our own are involved, but perhaps history is meant to be learned and learned from, ideally.
Your ancestors were admirable, as well as so many others who gave their lives defending their faith.

Angelina Casillas