Tengo un libro llamado "Retoños de España en la nueva Galicia" tomo II y me encantaría conseguir el tomo I y principalmente el tomo III porque ahí esta toda la información referente a mi familia, la familia Hurtado.
¿Alguien sabe donde puedo conseguirlo?
De paso alguien me podría indicar donde conseguir "la Sagrada Mitra"?
Gracias
Raúl Hurtado Pérez
He visto que existen diversas propuestas respecto al apellido de Bernardina, esposa de Mateo de Villalobos. Unos ven en la partida de matrimonio de su hijo Cristóbal "Sanclares" y otros, dejando a un lado la teoría, declaran que el apellido es Landares y así figura en innumerables sitios.
Hace unos meses estaba hojeando la obra "Los Americanos en las órdenes nobiliarias" de Guillermo Lohmann Villena y me encontré a un Gaspar de NANCLARES que vivió trece años en México en el Siglo XVII.
Sabiendo que los Villalobos son de Mayorga de Campos, Valladolid busqué en esa zona y en otros pueblos aledaños encontrando a varios Nanclares:
"Pleito de Froilana Córdoba, viuda de José de Nanclares Villarroel, como curadora de su hijo: Pedro Nanclares Córdoba, vecino de Mayorga."
"Pleito de Francisco de Nanclares, vecino de Ceínos de Campos (Valladolid). Archivo de la Real Chancillería de Valladolid: Contiene traslados de padrones de distintos lugares pertenecientes a la villa y tierra de Mayorga de Campos (Valladolid) de los años 1427 y 1433."
https://books.google.pt/books?id=cu1tVdRy1AUC&pg=PA206&dq=mayorga+de+ca…
Etc.
En el monasterio de San Pedro Mártir de Mayorga encontramos entre las monjas profesas a algunas Villalobos y Nanclares.
https://books.google.pt/books?id=uW8aA1E-EwEC&pg=PA112&dq=mayorga+%22na…
Es así que todo apunta a que el apellido correcto es Nanclares. La partida de matrimonio de Cristóbal de Villalobos curiosamente y haciendo la paleografía correctamente, dice Lanclares puesto que la "L" es la misma que en el resto del texto. Cómo concilia esto con lo que expuse sobre los Nanclares?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939D-DX9M-Z?i=337&wc=3P8Q-6…
En el sitio oficial de Nanclares de la Oca, nos lo explican: "A lo largo de la historia, ha sido citada de diversas maneras como Langrares, Langares, Lancares, Lancrares o Lanclares. Con la llegada de la lengua castellana el topónimo se convirtió en el actual Nanclares"
https://www.irunadeoca.com/ayuntamiento-iruna-de-oca/nanclares-de-la-oc…
Por lo anterior y según su servidor, el linaje de Bernardina es Nanclares, escrito Lanclares en su acta, forma también válida de escribirlo.
Un saludo,
Erik Andrés Reynoso.
I am seriously considering doing something that should have been done long ago. The automatic delivery of emails system is not working correctly and I'm planning on closing it down completely. . .that is unless there is strong opposition. That strong opposition needs to come in the form of persons with Webmaster skills that can help Arturo update the website.
So unless I hear from volunteers after September 1, 2020 EVERYONE will need to read messages by going to nuestrosranchos.org, logging in, going to the forums and reading messages from there.
So unless I hear from volunteers after September 1, 2020 EVERYONE will need to reply to messages by going to nuestrosranchos.org, logging in, going to the forums and replying to messages from there.
So unless I hear from volunteers after September 1, 2020 EVERYONE will need to send new messages by going to nuestrosranchos.org, logging in, going to the forums and sending new messages from there.
Bottom line EVERYTHING will be done from the website
Joseph Puentes
¿Alguien tiene una copia o sabe dónde puedo conseguir una copia del testamento de Leonardo de Fregoso? Se supone que vivió en Guadalajara en el siglo XVI más o menos y que estaba casado con Bernardina Farfán. Creo que tenían una hija que se llamaba Gerónima de la Cueva y que esta Gerónima estuvo casada con Francisco de Velasco y Temiño. Si no me equivoco, Francisco de Velasco y Temiño se fue a Jalisco pero no lo he podido encontrar.
Hi,
Can someone please help me read this record, left page second record what is says after Joachin Fuentes esp. (line 3) I can't read after that, up until hijo leg. Ju? Fuentes y de Anna Ramirez.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-K79P-ZR?from=lynx1UIV8…
Thank you,
Esther
Que tal, he estado bastante enrredado con con la genealogía de Juan Gomez Garcia, aquel que caso con María de la Candelaria de Aguilar, y quisiera saber si alguien sabe como comprobar la filiación con sus padres Juan Gomez Garcia y María de Velasco.
He leido algunas dispensas y ordenes sacerdotales pero no logro encontrar que documento es el que comprueba que fue hijo de ellos dos, ¿alguien tendrá algo?
I have the death record of a Nicolas Ballin (Vallin) from 28 Nov 1747.
The source citation is https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6XGS-245?mode=g&i=460&wc=M…
(Found as bottom image on left side)
However, I can't seem to connect him to other known members of this family. Can anyone help with this?
Here's the text as far as I can read it:
En veinte y ocho de Noviembre de mil setecientos quarenta y siete años, se le dio sepultura eclesiastica en la Parroquial de esta Villa de Aguascalientes a Nicolas Ballin español originario y vecino de esta dha villa hijo legmo. de Nicolas Ballin, y de Rosa de Urqui... casado con Manuela Ortis se le administraron los Stos. Sacramentos de Penitencia y Extrema Uncion solos porque luego se ..., y lo firme.
(ellipses inserted where I can't read the text.)
Thanks!
Colección de padrones
Un índice de padrones de varios años principalmente de lugares que hoy pertenecen a los municipios de Ayotlán, Arandas, Jesús María, Degollado, Ciudad Manuel Doblado, y la Piedad.
Guía a los Cambios de los Topónimos
Padrones de Ayotlán, Jal.
Incluyen ranchos que hoy corresponden a los municipios de Ayotlán, Arandas, Jesús María, Degollado y algunos de San Ignacio Cerro Gordo
Incluyen ranchos que hoy corresponden a los municipios de Ayotlán y Degollado
Padrones de Arandas, Jal.
Incluyen ranchos que hoy corresponden a los municipios de Arandas, Jesús María y algunos de San Ignacio Cerro Gordo
Padrón de Jesús María, Jal.
Padrón de San José de la Paz, Jal.
Incluye un mapa con índice; este padrón concluye con unos ranchos que están señalados como "separados" porque optaron por reconocer a parroquias vecinas
Padrones de Degollado, Jal.
Padrones de Ciudad Manuel Doblado, Gto.
Incluyen ranchos que hoy corresponden a los municipios de Ciudad Manuel Doblado, Gto.; Jesús María, Jal.; y Pénjamo, Gto.
Padrones de la Piedad, Mich.
Incluyen a Tánhuato y Yurécuaro y sus respectivas rancherias
Padrones de la Hacienda de Santa Ana Pacueco, Municipio de Pénjamo, Gto.
Varios años; vea la descripción en la imagen 07
Hi does anyone have or know how to get the genealogy of Vicente Fernandez or Jorge Negrete? I am curious to see how they connect with all the families. I know Negrete's mother was born in Lagos she is Moreno de Ortega. -Daniel
I am seriously considering doing something that should have been done long ago. The automatic delivery of emails system is not working correctly and I'm planning on closing it down completely. . .that is unless there is strong opposition. That strong opposition needs to come in the form of persons with Webmaster skills that can help Arturo update the website.
So unless I hear from volunteers after September 1, 2020 EVERYONE will need to read messages by going to nuestrosranchos.org, logging in, going to the forums and reading messages from there.
So unless I hear from volunteers after September 1, 2020 EVERYONE will need to reply to messages by going to nuestrosranchos.org, logging in, going to the forums and replying to messages from there.
So unless I hear from volunteers after September 1, 2020 EVERYONE will need to send new messages by going to nuestrosranchos.org, logging in, going to the forums and sending new messages from there.
Bottom line EVERYTHING will be done from the website
Joseph Puentes
I am seriously considering doing something that should have been done long ago. The automatic delivery of emails system is not working correctly and I'm planning on closing it down completely. . .that is unless there is strong opposition. That strong opposition needs to come in the form of persons with Webmaster skills that can help Arturo update the website.
So unless I hear from volunteers after September 1, 2020 EVERYONE will need to read messages by going to nuestrosranchos.org, logging in, going to the forums and reading messages from there.
So unless I hear from volunteers after September 1, 2020 EVERYONE will need to reply to messages by going to nuestrosranchos.org, logging in, going to the forums and replying to messages from there.
So unless I hear from volunteers after September 1, 2020 EVERYONE will need to send new messages by going to nuestrosranchos.org, logging in, going to the forums and sending new messages from there.
Bottom line EVERYTHING will be done from the website
Joseph Puentes
Replying to jorge@raicesdeyucatan :
" Hello everyone, Does anybody know where I can purchase these books today?
Thanks in advance, J."
My response:
Have you checked out borderlandsbooks.com
George Farias has a great selection of books on genealogy and history…….check it out. I don’t know if he has the book you are looking for but you can ask.
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Ancestros Zacapanecos (jorge@raicesdeyucatan.com)
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 12:01:31 -0700 (PDT)
> From: jorge@raicesdeyucatan.com
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> Hello everyone, Does anybody know where I can purchase these books today?
> Thanks in advance, J.
>
>
For about 3 weeks I have Los protocolos de Rodrigo Hernández Cordero, 1585-1591 : escribano público de Guadalajara by Jorge Palomino y Cañedo. It is a transcription with additional notes for the notary Rodrigo Hernandez Cordero who practiced in Guadalajara.
Here is the index:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tthsne8y348m3l7/AAAsRQ35Erf82kaNVK2F-LA5a?dl…
Sorry for the out of order pages. Let me know if you need anything looked up.
Hola primos,
In doing my research I sometimes see names with the title "Don" or "Doña". Most of the times it's just their names with no titles.
Is their a significance to using Don or Doña during this time period.
Here is an example:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-3XYS-5?i=612
Manjarrez, or Manjarrés, is the family name. There are plenty of both examples with the above link.
I have also seen a "N" used for last names for Indians...sometimes for black people. Any significance to using this as well?
Any thoughts will be helpful.
Thanks,
Andelmo
If any of you have Guatemala roots or have friends with Guatemala roots
here is some important information:
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: NFU Site Generated/
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:47:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: Guillermo Castañeda
To: NFU@JosephPuentes.com
Mr. Joseph Puentes: I am Guillermo Castañeda Lee and I want to
inform you that I started to publish my Genealogy books in Internet, the
books are seven and you may see the first one in :
www.ancestroszacapanecos.com
Would you please inform this to your organization. It's free.
From: Angel R. Cervantes
Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 2:32 AM
To: undisclosed-recipients:
Subject: Vandals Connection to New Mexican Families (Haplogroup I) Live/Online
Hello,
I would like to invite you to attend an online lecture on The Vandals Connection to New Mexican Families (Haplogroup I). If you would like to learn more about the Vandals and the mark they made on the Iberian Peninsula then this presentation is for you. We will also discuss the Y-DNA I-Mutation in European populations. There will be a talk on the subject on Saturday August 15, at 1:00 PM, through the Iberian Peninsula DNA Institute. When you respond to this email with interest, you will receive the registration form.
Location of Classes
Online via Zoom platform participation
Albuquerque, NM
Fee: $15.00 (checks only)
Please mail the registration form with your check to register for the class.
Best Regards,
Ángel de Cervantes
Executive Director
New Mexico DNA Project
Iberian Peninsula DNA Institute
I am searching, image by image, the 1793 baptisms in "Bautismos de hijos legitimos 1792-1796" (as FamilySearch has labeled it) collection for a natural birth, since there are no other baptism volumes for this period. And the volume does indeed include hijos naturales (almost always with simply the abbreviation h.N. or h. n.). So if you are looking for an hijo natural in Nochistlan do look in the baptisms, since they do include hijos naturales even though they are titled by FamilySearch as hijos legitimos.
Here is the URL for image 71 of 308 which is in the 1793 baptisms (just a randomly chosen image so you can see the records - the one at top right is "h. N."):
familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-GYV3-V?cc=1804458&wc=3P9Z-FM3
FYI ... I am looking for the baptism of Feliciano SANDOVAL h. n. de Maria Lugarda SANDOVAL, according to his 1814 marriage to Maria Marsela CAMPA that shows him age 21, originario de Rio Ancho.
Wesley Johnston
According to what I have been able to investigate, the children of Francisco Suárez de Ibarra (ca.1577-1641), Alférez Real de Guadalajara, were the following:
From his marriage to María Martínez del Castillo (died in 1622):
Juana de Ibarra y Martínez del Castillo (b. 1603-, married to Antonio Villar de las Casas
Mariana de Ibarra y Martínez del Castillo (ca.1605-1630, married to Gerónimo Velázques y Dávila
Francisco de Ibarra y Martínez del Castillo (ca 1607-?), a Jesuit
Francisco de Ibarra y Martínez del Castillo (ca 1610-?), married to Beatriz Gutiérrez de Carriazo, he moved to Mexico City and his children were born there.
(I really don't know which of the two Franciscos was born first)
From his marriage to Isabel Pimentel and Hurtado (1603-1665)
Francisco de Ibarra y Pimentel (ca 1625- before 1698), married to Elena de Vargas
Alonso de Ibarra y Pimentel (ca 1626-?), Franciscan friar; professed April 6, 1647, at the San Francisco Convent in Guadalajara.
Miguel de Ibarra y Pimentel (1631-?), married to Agustina Zúñiga y Vizcaíno (great-granddaughter of the navigator Sebastián Vizcaino, explorer of the California coast)
María de Ibarra y Pimentel (1635-?)
Joseph de Ibarra y Pimentel (1636-?)
Juan de Ibarra y Pimentel (1640-1718), married to Teresa de Sabalsa, settled in Tepic, becoming a prosperous merchant.
I have the strong theory, due to several coincidences in dates and godparents, that Miguel de Ibarra and Agustina de Zúñiga and Vizcaíno were the parents of my direct ancestor Francisco de Ibarra, married to Lorenza de la Plaza and settled in Ixtlán del Río , Nayarit, who died in 1739.
I have a person who would like to purchase Retoños de España en la Nueva
Galicia. Where can I send him?
Joseph
Joseph Puentes
Según lo que he podido investigar, los hijos de Francisco Suárez de Ibarra (ca.1577-1641), Alférez Real de Guadalajara, fueron los siguientes:
De su matrimonio con María Martínez del Castillo (fallecida en 1622):
Juana de Ibarra y Martínez del Castillo 1603-, casada con Antonio Villar de las Casas
Mariana de Ibarra y Martínez del Castillo ca 1605-1630, casada con Gerónimo Velázques y Dávila
Francisco de Ibarra y Martínez del Castillo ca 1607-, Religioso de la Compañía de Jesús
Francisco de Ibarra y Martínez del Castillo ca 1610-, casado con Beatriz Gutiérrez de Carriazo
(Realmente no sé cual de los dos Franciscos nació primero)
De su matrimonio con Isabel Pimentel y Hurtado 1603-1665
Francisco de Ibarra y Pimentel ca 1628-/1698, casado con Elena de Vargas
Miguel de Ibarra y Pimentel 1631- , casado con Agustina Zúñiga y Vizcaíno (bisnieta del navegante Sebastián Vizcaino, explorador de las costas de California)
María de Ibarra y Pimentel 1635-
Joseph de Ibarra y Pimentel 1636-
Juan de Ibarra y Pimentel 1640-1718, casado con Teresa de Sabalsa, se asentó en Tepic, convirtiéndose en próspero comerciante.
Tengo la fuerte teoría, debido a varias coincidencias en fechas y padrinazgos, de que Miguel de Ibarra y Agustina de Zúñiga y Vizcaíno eran los padres del tatarabuelo de mi tatarabuelo, Francisco de Ibarra, casado con Lorenza de la Plaza y asentado en Ixtlán del Río, Nayarit, fallecido en 1739.
Hola prim@s,
Has anyone else read this? I don’t descend from this branch of the Fernandez de Vaulus/ Siordia family, but I began reading this dispensa, and I was just blown away - it reads like a telenovela! In it, is some information on relationships that I previously didn’t know about, and that I imagine others didn’t know about either, and involving descendants of Doña Juana de Siordia. So I thought I’d write something about it and share it here. Note: the language used in this dispensa is very convoluted and not a little confusing, being that people are being spoken of who can’t be named, to “protect their reputations”; this is my interpretation of what’s written, and I am paraphrasing a lot of it, plus I’m filling-in some of the names, for the sake of clarity. It’s another long one, so you might want to sit back with a cup of coffee or tea (or maybe something stronger). For those of you who descend from Bernarda Salado or her half-brother, Nicolas Ponce, you might want to read the original document.
Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo
Pedro Arias Pardo, castizo, age 49, viudo de Laureana Gonzalez, has contracted marriage with Catalina Salado, española, age 40, hija de Francisco de Aguilar (sic) and Doña Bernarda Salado, both deceased. Note: Catalina Salado was at least 48, and her father’s name was Gaspar de Aguilar.
The first part is your typical IM, with declaration of intent and the statements of the bridal couple and their 3 witnesses. After the marriage banns, a witness came forth, and said that there could be an impediment to the marriage: Bartolome Rodriguez Bajo, aka Bartolome Ponce, age 42, states that he had news that Pedro Arias had had an “illicit friendship” with a woman, who was already deceased, having died a spinster, so he won’t say her name because of her reputation, and who was an aunt of Catalina Salado, being a prima hermana of her mother, Doña Bernarda Salado (from here on out, I will refer to this woman as “la doncella difunta”); and he knows of this illicit friendship, because in his house, he raised a child, whose name was Maria, and that after having her in his care for some time, the aforementioned woman told him that the child was hers, but she did not say who the father was; later, the child Maria told him that Pedro Arias was her father, and she went to live in his house, and he took custody of her and arranged her marriage (she might be Maria Arias Pardo, “hija de padres no conocidos,” who married Martin de la Torre, 20 Apr 1694). Rodriguez also says that he had heard a rumor that Pedro Arias had had an illicit friendship with another relative of Catalina Salado, a first-cousin, who was an hija natural of Nicolas Ponce, named Bernarda de Siordia, mujer soltera.
Bernarda de Siordia, mestiza, de edad de mas de 40 años, is called to appear, and throughout the rest of the record, is referred to as “Bernarda Salado mestiza.” She says that she knows Pedro Arias, since they grew up together, but she never had a “sinful friendship” with him. She was asked if she knew of a child who was raised in the home of Bartolome Ponce, and whether this child was the daughter of “la doncella difunta,” said to be a relative of Catalina Salado. She said that she knew of the child, and she did know “la doncella difunta,” but she was not the mother of said child, and that she knew this, because she assisted in the child’s birth as midwife, and the child was born in her hands. She then says that the real mother should not be named, “por el estado en que se halla” (i.e., she was married). So they go “off the record,” and in secret, Bernarda Salado mestiza tells the judge the woman’s name. She says she never knew who the father was.
The next witness is the woman whom Bernarda Salado mestiza named as the real mother of the girl, and who is referred to as “la mujer casada” throughout the rest of the document. To avoid any scandal caused by ordering her to appear, or by the ecclesiastical judge visiting her in her home, it is decided that the notary public, Antonio Perez Velasco, who is familiar with her, will visit her in her home and take her statement. He goes to her house, and while alone and during their conversation, he brings up the case at hand, and asks her if she had anything to say in regards, and she said “yes.” So he swears her in, and begins to question her. When asked, she said that she knew Pedro Arias since they were children, as they had grown up together, and that she had an “illicit friendship” with him that lasted some 6 years, during which time, they had 2 children: a son, who died, and a daughter, raised by Bernarda Salado, and who later, this witness had in her home, until she went to live with her father, who recognized her and married her off; but no one in her family knew the girl was hers, they all believed her to be the daughter of “la doncella difunta,” because this witness had asked her to claim the child as hers. She is then asked if and how she is related to Catalina Salado, and she replied that Nicolas Ponce was her father, and he was the brother of Doña Bernarda Salado, mother of Catalina Salado, so she and Catalina were 1st-cousins. She gives no other information, other than that her age was about 40.
Reviewing these 3 testimonies, here’s my take: as well as discovering that Nicolas Ponce had an hija natural named Bernarda Salado, we learn that the unnamed “doncella difunta,” who was an aunt of Catalina Salado, and who was believed to be the mother of Maria, Pedro Arias’ lovechild, was not the girl’s mother; instead, her mother was the unnamed “mujer casada,” who was also a daughter of Nicolas Ponce, and who had made a deal with “la doncella difunta” to claim the child as hers, obviously to protect her reputation. And then we have Bartolome Rodriguez Bajo saying that the girl Maria was raised in his home, until she was recognized by her father, who took her in and arranged her marriage. But then, “la mujer casada” also says that Maria was raised in her home, until she went to live with her father. At first, I thought it odd that two people would claim that they raised the girl, but putting 2 and 2 together: Bartolome Rodriguez Bajo was married to Teresa de Siordia, daughter of Nicolas Ponce and Juana de Ortega; unless Nicolas Ponce and Juana de Ortega had another daughter who was married and who lived in Bartolome Rodriguez Bajo’s household, "la mujer casada” can be none other than his wife, Teresa de Siordia!
Are you all following me?? Okay, put on your seatbelts, because here comes another twist…
Pedro Arias Pardo is called to testify, and is presented with the above allegations. He responded that yes, he knows the girl named Maria, who grew up in the house of Bartolome Ponce, because he fathered her and has recognized her as his daughter, and as such, had married her. He also knew “la doncella difunta” very well, but he never had an illicit friendship with her, so she couldn’t have been the mother of Maria. He confirmed that the mother of the child was ”la mujer casada” (whose name he confided to the judge, off the record), and that, even though this was true, there still was no parentesco between her and his betrothed, Catalina Salado, because - and here is where it really starts to get crazy - even though everyone believes that “la mujer casada” is prima hermana of Catalina Salado, it isn’t so, because, before the mother of “la mujer casada” (i.e., Juana de Ortega) married the man said to be her father (Nicolas Ponce), she “communicated to” a resident of this villa named Juan Alonso de los Ynojos (“comunicó a un sujeto desta villa llamado Juan Alonso de los Ynojos” - I’m going to presume this means she had a sexual relationship with him), and after giving birth to “la mujer casada,” she married the man said to be her father (Nicolas Ponce), who raised her as such. To verify his claim, Pedro Arias offered the name of Pedro de Arrona, and said that Bernarda Salado mestiza could also attest to this.
Pedro de Arrona, age 67, is then called to appear. Asked if he knew “la mujer casada,” and if he knew who her father and mother were, and whether she was related in any way to Catalina Salado, Pedro de Arrona answered: Yes, he knew “la mujer casada” very well, since she was born, because the night her mother gave birth to her, in total secrecy, because she was unmarried at the time, they handed her over to this witness so that he could take her to the puesto called Los Negritos, so that she could be raised in complete secrecy. He knows who her mother was, and he knows that the man who was said to be her father (Nicolas Ponce), was not her biological father, and that some years after “la mujer casada” was born, her mother married this man said to be her father. And knowing this with all certitude, this witness swears and assures that there is no kinship between Catalina Salado and “la mujer casada,” because the man she believes to be her father, was in fact, not. But then, he adds: although he has stated that “la mujer casada” is the daughter of the woman said to be her mother (Juana de Ortega), he declares that she was not, because he knows very well who her biological parents were: those who called upon this witness to take her where she was raised (whom he doesn’t name). In as such, “la mujer casada” is not the daughter of the woman said to be her mother (Juana de Ortega), nor of the man said to be her father (Nicolas Ponce).
Bernarda Salado mestiza is called back to testify, and asked if “la mujer casada” is the daughter of Nicolas Ponce, she said no, because “la mujer casada” was born before her her parents married, and she knows with all certainty that he was not her biological father, because this witness was born and raised in the same house, and because she heard it from “la mujer casada” herself, who said that her father was not Nicolas Ponce, as everyone was led to believe.
The notary, Antonio Perez Velasco, was then sent to the house of “la mujer casada,” to get her statement in regards to these new allegations. Note: again, the wording is convoluted, so, as I’ve been doing, I’m going to fill-in the names and paraphrase it, but I’m also going to write it as a dialogue between the notary (Antonio Perez) and the witness (“la mujer casada”), since it seems the easiest way to convey what was said:
Notary: Was Nicolas Ponce your biological father?
Witness: Yes he was, and none other.
Notary: How can you say that he was your father, when witnesses say otherwise, and seeing how you were abandoned at the home of Ana (illegible)? (“exposito en la casa de Ana Xe-”)
Witness: It is true, that I was taken to be raised in the cited home, but later, after my mother married Nicolas Ponce, he recognized me as his daughter.
Notary: How do you know that he was your father, when you were a foundling?
Witness: Because my mother told me so on her deathbed.
Notary: Before you had your sinful relationship with Pedro Arias, you had one with Augustin Salado, nephew of Nicolas Ponce, being the son of his sister, Bernarda Salado; on that occasion, Pedro Arias asked you, “how could you commit incest with your 1st-cousin?” And you replied that it wasn’t incest, because Augustin Salado was not related to you, since Nicolas Ponce was not your biological father, nor did you consider him as such. That said, how can you now say that Nicolas Ponce was your biological father?
Witness: Though what you say in your question is true, word for word, I said it to cover-up my wickedness and my sin.
Notary: If Nicolas Ponce wasn’t your father, what is your reason to deny and cover up the truth?
Witness: Señor mío, just dispense Pedro Arias, he is just a mestizo who wants to marry a spanish woman! And don’t come back here with this business any more, because I always have the same thing to say, and I swear to it, by that Holy Cross.
And pointing at a crucifix, she arose from my side and left the room for the patio of the house, and taking my leave of her with all courtesy, she said, “Tío (sic), for heaven’s sake, respect my reputation, regarding what was spoken of.”
* * * * * * * * *
GUAU. ¡Que fuerte! Are your heads spinning? You cannot make this stuff up!
In the end, it was decided that the allegations of any kinship between Catalina Salado and “la mujer casada” were doubtful, and the marriage was allowed to proceed without a dispensation. So the judges believed Pedro Arias and the witnesses, who said that “la mujer casada” was not the daughter of Nicolas Ponce and Juana Macias de Ortega.
If my theory is correct, that “la mujer casada” and Teresa Ponce de Siordia are the same person, this changes some things we thought we knew about this family group. First, we now know that she was born before her alleged parents married in Apr 1648, which explains why there was no baptism record for her. And if Pedro Arias was telling the truth, then Juan Alonso de los Ynojos was her biological father (from the timelines, he would’ve been the one who married Isabel Lopez Ramirez in 1652). If Pedro de Arrona was telling the truth, then Juana Macias de Ortega was not her mother; who that person was, is lost to history. Last but not least, all of this would mean that the dispensa of Bartolome Rodriguez Bajo and his second wife, Tomasa de la Rosa de Ulloa, was unnecessary, since there was no parentesco between Teresa and Tomasa!
The other take-aways are also of interest, that Nicolas Ponce had an hija natural named Bernarda Salado, aka Bernarda de Siordia, who was Mestiza, and who was born between 1645 and 1655 (in her first appearance, she gives her age as older than 40, but in her second appearance, she says she was about 50). I wondered if she was the same Bernarda Salado, aka Bernarda de la Torre, aka Bernarda Lopez de Nava, who married Andres Navarro on 18 Apr 1670, who was said to be an “hija de padres no conocidos” on their marriage record, but in his testimony, Bartolome Rodriguez Bajo said that she was “soltera.”
And then there’s Augustin Salado, who was said to be a son of Doña Bernarda Salado cc Gaspar de Aguilar - that’s the first mention I’ve seen of him. His is another name to add to their family group.
Hello everyone, I have a copy of the entire set of these books, some of them are still in the original wrapper.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 21, 2020, at 1:41 PM, research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:
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> 1. Re: Reto?os on Abebooks (Marty Puentes)
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 16:18:05 -0700
> From: Marty Puentes
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Reto?os on Abebooks
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>
> Hola, were your aunt and uncle able to see if the Retonos books were for
> sale?
>
> Marty Puentes
>
>> On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 9:53 AM wrote:
>>
>> The books are listed on Abebooks for $780. There is no way I can justify
>> that. I'm wondering if there is a way to see if they sell them anywhere in
>> Guadalajara online. I'm going to see my aunt and uncle in March or April.
>> If
>> they don't ship them to the US I can have them sent to them or if they are
>> in
>> print in Mexico I can just go buy them.
>>
Hola compañeros:
Estos últimos días, he retomado el estudio genealógico de Tecolotlán. El tema que abordo el día de hoy es el de Beltrán de la Cueva (a veces está como Francisco Beltrán Fernández de la Cueva) casado con Tomasina de Velasco y Zúñiga, a quien tengo por hija de Francisco de Velasco y Temiño y de Gerónima de la Cueva. Yo desciendo de su hijo Juan de la Cueva y Velasco, quién nació en 1686 en Tecolotlán.
Mi pregunta aquí es, ¿Sabe alguien de ustedes si éste Beltrán de la Cueva, estaba emparentado con Gerónima de la Cueva, madre de Tomasina e hija de Leonardo Fregoso y Bernardina Farfán?
Sé que existe un libro, "Origen y desenvolvimiento de la Familia de la Cueva en Tecolotlán", escrito por mi tío Gabriel Agraz García de Alba, pero aún no he podido conseguir copias del mismo, por lo que me imagino si alguien por casualidad lo ha leído venga ese dato que pregunto.
Bueno les agradezco de antemano sus respuestas, muchos saludos.
Enrique Salvador Agraz
Hola compañeros
Me gustaría saber mas sobre los ascendientes de Capitan Francisco Javier Romo Vivar
Pues no se casi nada de su padre Luis y de su madre Maria Romo y ellos no tienen padres!!!!
Luis Rincón de Vivar † y María de Romo † fueron padres del
Capitan Francisco Xavier Rincón y Romo, †
...........................................................
Capitan Francisco Xavier Rincón Romo
Datos básicos
Nacido - Rielves, en la provincia de Toledo
Fallecido ?
Enterrado ?
Padres
Luis Rincón de Vivar †
María de Romo †
Casamiento(s) e hijo(s)
Casado con María Ortega Martín † (Apellido de origen toledano.
Don Luis Rincón de Vivar, vecino de Rielves, en la provincia de Toledo y su esposa doña María de Romo, fueron padres legítimos del Capitán don Francisco Xavier Rincón y Romo, que pasó a la Nueva España donde le fueron otorgadas diferentes tierras en los años de 1591 a 1605 por la Audiencia de la Nueva Galicia, las que incrementó con la cesión de las que les fueron mercedadas a otras personas, siendo uno de los más ricos terratenientes de su época en la zona conocida como Ciénaga de Mata.
Contrajo matrimonio con doña María Ortega y Martín, hija de don Pedro Mateos de Ortega y doña Catalina Martín, teniendo en ella al Capitán don Agustín Rincón de Ortega, Alguacil Mayor de la villa de Aguascalientes y Santa María de los Lagos, en 1642; Alcalde Mayor, en 1643;
Corregidor de Zacatecas en 1652 y patrón de los conventos de San Agustín de Celaya, del de Salvatierra de religiosas carmelitas, y el de la Concepción de San Diego.), que caso con
Juan Rincón Vivar Ortega, Alcalde Mayor y Alguacil Mayor Villa de Aguascalientes †1666
Hi,
I need some help here because I am confused about whose side were the Milicias Dragones of Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico were on in 1785?
Were they on the spanish crown side or fighting for independence from Spain?
Because I was looking at an archive called Milicias de Colotlan 1785 in the pars website.