Sorry, that is for Jose Antonio on the second page, second from the bottom.
Thanks again. Alice BB
Does anyone know of a museum or online store where I can purchase a poster of the Mexican caste system-I’d like to get it for my classroom
I don't know about the poster, but there is a magazine with lots of pictures (it is possible to make a collage)
The magazine is artes de Mexico (pintura de castas)
https://catalogo.artesdemexico.com/productos/la-pintura-de-castas-agota…
I hope it helps
sus
Just google “poster art castas mexico”
This site sells various posters. I see only one with different panels, but there are some with individual castas: https://fineartamerica.com/shop/posters/castas
Apparently, you can also order from Walmart, but they all appear to be the same. Just check the prices.
Good luck!
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Hello,
I need help reading a record.
It is the baptismal record of Francisco Gonzalez (4 nov 1639) in tlaltenango.
The godparents were:
I also see "turget"
so I looked it up and got this:
Verb
turget
third-person singular present active indicative of turgeō
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/turgeo#Latin
turgeō (present infinitive turgēre, perfect active tursī); second conjugation, no passive, no supine stem
I am swollen, swell out.
(figuratively) I swell (with rage); I am enraged.
(figuratively, of speech) I am inflated or bombastic.
~ Andrea
Andrea,
Thank you so much for looking at the image. The turget is an incredible mistery. But it is another piece of the puzzle
saludos
susana
Hola a todos,
A Gonzalo Antunez se le embargan bienes y se le encarcela debido a una Real Cedula enviada al Virrey Fernandez de Cordoba, esta cédula indicaba que Gonzalo era portugués y había pasado "a esas partes" sin licencia, supongo se refiere a la Nueva España, ademas de ello, la cédula menciona que tenia 30 mil ducados en su caudal "mal habidos en lo uno y en lo otro y que por esto y ser portugues y haver pasado aestas ptes. sin licencia mia y no esta compuesto, tiene perdidos todos sus bienes conforme a lo dispuesto por cedula Rl." , no menciona otra cosa mas, ni da muestra de que haya presentado limpieza de sangre.
La cédula esta fechada en agosto de 1615, lo curioso es que el proceso donde se menciona que fue encarcelado que están en el AGN es de 1611.
Hay una concesión de licencia para pasar a Nueva España de un Gonzalo Antunez en 1633, pero ese Antunez declara ser soltero. INDIFERENTE,2077,N.228
En el libro "La emigración desde la España penínsular a Venezuela en los siglos XVI, XVII y XVIII, Volumen 1" hay un pase a indias de un Diego Jimenez caballero de habito de Santiago el cual viaja con un criado de nombre Juan Mazueloz Antunes hijo de Gonzalo Antunez y Maria Nuñez "todos cristianos viejos, limpios de toda mala raza..."
De todo esto, parce que ni con Real Cédula pudieron quitarlo como "Familiar del Santo oficio" ya que en 1617 aparece como albacea de una capellanía y declara ser "familiar del Santo Oficio", también parece ser que le devuelven su caudal.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-BG9Y-T?i=82&cc=1883388…
Lo raro de todo esto es le hecho de que paso a Nueva España sin licencia y con una gran fortuna "mal habida" y la forma un tanto despectiva al mencionarlo como portugués.
Así pues, hay mas dudas que aciertos, no se sabe de donde salio, y tuvo que haber vivido una temporada en la Ciudad de México, donde pudo conocer a alguien que lo invitara a pasar aquellas partes de Michoacan ya que en la Real Cédula también se le menciona que estaba comprado muchas tierras a indios, tierras realengas.
Con una fortuna tan grande o era por sus grandes habilidades de comerciante (¿converso?) o porque venia de una familia poderosa y noble, cosa que queda descartada por su pase ilegal, en fin, conjeturas nada mas.
Mil gracias, Enrique. El caso de Antunes Yáñez es interesante e intrigante a la vez. Como bien dices, Enrique, pasar sin licencia es altamente sospechoso, es un crimen y está establecido en las Leyes de Indias. Aunado a eso...un caudal de 30 mil ducados? Fortuna mal habida pero que al parecer le abrió las puertas de par en par después de pasar sin licencia, de encontrarse en Indias y de ejercer un oficio sin prueba alguna de su pureza de sangre, tanto así que su hijo cuando pasa a la península tampoco la presenta argumentando que esa documentación la dejó en Indias y generaciones posteriores aluden al linaje de su esposa y de otros consortes pero omiten al de Gonzalo.
A mí me gustaría llegar así al aeropuerto y decirle a los oficiales que olvidé mi pasaporte pero que no tengan cuidado, juro y perjuro que lo tengo en mi casa.
Por cierto, aprovecho el hilo para corregir algo. En Wikitree hay un error, colocan el enlace a la partida de matrimonio de Gonzalo y dicen que un testigo es Pedro de Yáñez. Lo correcto es Pedro de Chávez quien fue Teniente de Alcalde Mayor de la Ciudad de Michoacán en 1598 y 1599.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-5R9P-26?i=6&wc=3NYF-BZ…
El Gonzalo Antúnez que mencionas de 1633 posiblemente sea el que se avecindó en Parral que también era portugués y comerciante.
De cualquier forma no es la primera vez que alguien compra el oficio de familiar; una familia importante vecina del Bajío, andaluces y familiares del S.O. en Indias también tenía unas ramas de sangre conversa en su ascendencia...aquellos que unos cuantos títulos nobiliarios portaron...
En fin, no deja de ser interesante este personaje.
The Antúnez de Portugal had some Jewish /conversó ancestors. Clara Antúnez, Diego Antúnez, Francisco Antúnez, and Manuel Antúnez were all placed under investigation by the inquisition for Jewish practices.
R.A. Ricci
Efectivamente. Conozco los casos inquisitoriales en contra de Clara y Manuel Antunes o Antúnez, hijos de Diego Antunes y de Isabel Duarte. Lo que desconozco es qué parentesco pudieron tener con nuestro Gonzalo Antunes, puesto que de sus hijos sólo he encontrado los nombres de Ana (casada con Alonso Rodríguez Martos), Gonzalo (quien viajó a "los Reinos de Castilla" en 1633, y cuyo matrimonio y descendencia desconozco), así como dos religiosos de nombres Felipe y Antonio (nombrados como tales en el testamento de su cuñado Alonso Rodríguez Martos).
Saludos.
¿Alguien ha conseguido comprobar el parentesco entre Gonzalo Antunes y la familia de Clara y Manuel Antunes (hijos de Diego Antunes) que fueron condenados por judaizantes? ¿O estamos sólo ante conjeturas?
Saludos.
Hola Diego,
Como familiar del Santo Oficio, habrá su informacion de genealogia en los archivos del mismo, pero no la he encontrado. Puedes buscarla en los registros en el primero rollo, entonces en el tomo correspondiente:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/31792?availability=Family%2…
Pero hay cuatro registros con su nombre, año de 1616, tratando de un proceso criminal en su contra (uf!). No sé de que se trata, pero lo pusieron preso y confiscaron sus bienes (!!!):
TOMO 312
1616 - Informacion sobre que Juan de Rivera puso preso a Gonzalo Antunes familiar del sto. oficio -fojas 293-299. 56
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-CJB9?i=312&cat=31…
1616- Aviso al Santo Oficio de que el Juez Juan Perez, de Patzcuaro, ha puesto preso al familiar Gonzalo Antunes Iañez, confiscando sus bienes - fojas 511. 82
1616 -Fray Diego Muñoz da parte al Santo Oficio de que el Juez Juan Perez, de Patzcuaro, ha puesto preso al familiar Gonzalo Antunes Iañez, confiscando sus bienes. -fe. fojas 511. 83
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-CL6K?i=313&cat=31…
TOMO 314
1616- Autos de Gonzalo Antunes Yañez, familiar del Santo Oficio en la provincia de Michoacan, sobre la causa en que proceda criminalmente contra el, Juan Perez de Rivera. - 9 fojas.-Michoacan.- Num.1.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-CLXV?i=315&cat=31…
Puedes buscarlos en los tomos - dinos que encuentras!
Un saludo cordial,
Manny Díez Hermosillo
Efectivamente el padre Ibarrola no menciona sus fuentes para prácticamente todo el libro. En el prólogo escrito por José Bravo Ugarte este informa que el padre Gabriel auxiliado durante mucho tiempo por Luis Samano obtuvo la información publicada de los libros parroquiales de Michoacán y Guanajuato así como de libros notariales del palacio de gobierno de Morelia y del Ayuntamiento de Pátzcuaro
Hay que tener cuidado con el libro del Padre Ibarrola, aunque tuvo buena voluntad el libro que escribió está plagado de errores. Cambió de sexo a una pariente mía del lado Gómez de la Puente, inventó una relación inexistente de los López de Pineda con la familia que fue portadora del Condado de Villapineda, asignó escudos de armas con poco o nulo conocimiento de heráldica, confundió las ramas de los Ponce de León, aunado a ello declaró que Catalina Borja era sobrina colateral de Francisco de Borja y Aragón, IV Duque de Gandía, sin presentar prueba alguna, etc. Cuando el padre Ibarrola regaló copias de su libro a la sociedad de Morelia, entre ellos a mis abuelos, se comentaba que al libro le faltaba información. Naturalmente hay que considerar que el acceso a la información en la época del Padre Ibarrola era menor al actual y que muchas veces tendía "puentes genealógicos" a falta de documentos.
El caso de Gonzalo Antunes es interesante por decir lo menos: no presentó su genealogía ascendente, fue perseguido por el Virrey por irregularidades en su documentación y por abusos mientras ejercía como funcionario del cabildo (AGN, Ramo Civil, Volumen 687, foja 32), su hijo en el pasaje a Indias tampoco la presenta declarando que ya la había presentado en Nueva España, situación poco frecuente. Su bisnieto por el lado Rodríguez Martos tampoco desarrolla su genealogía ascendente en su informe de méritos y servicios (Buscar en PARES). Su partida de matrimonio con María Martínez presenta enmendaduras hechas por Diego de Borja, sobrino suyo, hijo de Pedro Naranjo Barco natural de Ceclavín en Extremadura, y de Agustina de Borja.
Desarrollando más el cuadro familiar político portugués de Diego de Borja: Diego era esposo de Mariana de Reynoso y Altamirano, hija de Fernando de Reynoso Angulo y de María de Altamirano Guevara y Guzmán, nieta del poderoso comerciante Francisco de Medina Reynoso y de Juana de Angulo Ortega, bisnieta de Alonso de Reinoso y Ulloa -natural de Boadilla de Rioseco en Castilla- y de Luisa Clara de Medina, dama portuguesa de origen judeoconverso (Tribunal do Santo Ofício, Inquisição de Lisboa, proc. 7722).
Les deseo suerte en sus investigaciones y feliz Diciembre.
Hola León,
Efectivamente, expones muy bien las precauciones que hay que tener con fuentes secundarias, sobre todo aquellas escritas en tiempos en los que los estudios genealógicos se hacían de manera poco rigurosa. Está claro que sobre Catalina de Borja no ha salido ninguna información que aclare su origen, sea o no ilustre.
Me interesa muchísimo todo lo que nos cuentas. Lo primero es la referencia que haces a las "irregularidades su documentación" como causa de los procesos en su contra por parte del virrey Luis de Velasco. Me pregunto si nos podrías contar más acerca de a qué documentación te refieres y si es posible consultar dichos procesos en algún lado. Y por último, tras ver su acta de matrimonio está claro que alguien buscó alterarla, ¿cómo descubriste que fue su sobrino Diego de Borja?
Sobre su sobrino Diego de Borja Barco, encontré interesantes referencias a su vida en sus relaciones de méritos y servicios encargadas en distintas ocasiones (siendo la último en 1682: http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas/servlets/Control_servlet?accion=3&tx…), y me resulta curioso que a pesar de que describe bien a la familia de su esposa, de la suya no cita ni el nombre de sus padres, lo cual no deja de resultar sospechoso.
Me parece interesantísimo todo lo que nos estás compartiendo, así que perdón por bombardearte con tantas preguntas.
También resulta curioso que la bisabuela de su esposa viniera de una familia de conversos. ¿Crees que pueda ser el caso de Gonzalo? No me extrañaría que un descendiente de conversos quisiera refugiarse en cargos del Santo Oficio, aunque si fuera el caso, imagino que no sería fácil salirse con la suya.
Muchos saludos!
Hola Manny,
Muchas gracias por los enlaces que me mandas. Desafortunadamente, no consigo encontrar los enlaces para buscar las genealogías de los aspirantes. Veo, sin embargo, que Gonzalo de Antunes no está incluido en la obra "Aspirantes Americanos a Cargos del Santo Oficio" de Guillermo Fernández de Recas.
Los demás enlaces que me mandas resultan muy interesantes, sobre todo en el que menciona la confiscación de sus bienes (que le debieron de haber sido devueltos al poco tiempo, puesto que al año siguiente fundó una capellanía en su hacienda, lo que llevaba grandes gastos).
En todo caso creo que esta información trae muy buenas pistas para seguir descubriendo más sobre su vida y sus ancestros.
Muchos saludos!
Los Yañes y Borgias si vienen de Portugal
Tradicion dice que el Apellido Borgia empeso con Rodrigo Yanes que defendió heroicamente la ciudad francesa de Bourge.
Los descendientes de Rodrigo Yañes (Annes) usaron Los dos apellidos Yañes y Borgia.
Rick A. Ricci
Hello!
Violante! I see it now.
Thank you both for your help, Daniel and Ana.
I see B, not V. I read it as Biolante Nuñez.
Compare the “B” used for Blanca To the “B” used in Biolante.
Rick A. Ricci
Hey!
I would say it's definitely Hernando Hidalgo, but I wouldn't know about Vicenta. Because the last letter is definitely an e, and usually the spelling varies in b and v, s and c... but I haven't seen "Vicente" instead of "Vicenta". I agree that it looks more like Violante. I would also take into account that, by that time, a lot of last names are "de" something. My last name derives from "Sandoval" into "de Sandoval", and there is a funny space in there, so maybe the name ends with "n" and the last name is "de Nuñez"?
I agree with you on the Hernando but I think that Hernando’s wife’s name looks more like Violante to me.
Best,
Daniel Serna Valencia
Hey everybody!! I have a question about Gregorio Sandoval Legaspi and his wife.
Would the second marriage require a dispensa due to the Pulido line? If so you can look for that to help. Also, see if on the page where the first marriage entry is, if the records before or after it have the name teresa espinoza in them. I have seen scribes accidentally place names in the wrong record like they were copying from another piece of paper or something
See if the names match in an IM if available as well for the first marriage. You can also compare church and civil records in that time period
Nice catch, scribe error according to this document
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-95G4-9RJH?i=236&cc=191…
Yes, indeed! Just misplaced names, after all. I hadn't seen that before so I got lost. Thank you so very much!
Always run with a hunch!
Yes, This is WAY WAY off topic for this group but I'm helping my second cousin.
Joseph,
I don't have anyone in Sierra Mojada, but I saw the map and Sierra Mojada is more less near Fuste, and I know the records from Fuste are in Cuatrocienega, and before that in Monclova.
I hope this helps.
I'm also looking in Coahuila
Susana
My GGM was born in Sierra Mojada. I don't think church records are up for this town. Luckily she was born in 1899 so I found the civil record. Sorry!
Hola,
After taking another look at the subject of María de Islas I see there is still an issue that the parent(s) of María de Islas, wife of Cristóbal de Lozano Martínez, are not named in any document therefore we don't know how she was related to Benito de Islas.
The fact that there was a María de Islas that was the illegitimate daughter of Benito de Islas does not mean that she is the same person that was the wife of Cristóbal de Lozano Martínez. There could have been a 3rd María de Islas especially since it is possible that there were two Benito de Islas and that the first Benito had another son, or even a daughter, that then had another daughter also named María de Islas. We know that females were at times given the name of a female ancestor. Another possibility is that Benito married twice and Juana Navarro is the 2nd wife and there was another María de Islas with the first wife. We don't even have the marriage document or información matrimonial of Benito de Isla and Juana Navarro.
Without proof that the María de Islas married to Cristóbal de Lozano Martínez was the illegitimate daughter of Benito de Islas she shouldn't be attributed as being the same person.
Armando,
I totally agreed with you. We can't assumed that Maria de Islas (illegitimate daughter of Benito de Islas) is the same person who married Cristobal de Lozano.
Susana
Excellent, thank you again Chris. I did find the dispensa since the posting. Is the will in Aguascalientes?
Hi Alex,
Yeah it's in Aguascalientes. It's dated 12/3/1716.
Chris
I have not been able to access the sigue website for a couple months now. Could someone please upload Maria de Islas Montezuma's will to this site?
Thank you,
Alex
Susana,
Benito de Isla is the son of Bernardo de Isla and Magdalena Labezares. Benito de Isla's wife is probably Juana Navarro, probable daughter of Petronila de Moctezuma and Martin Navarro de Gabay. There is a Magdalena de Labezares, married to Francisco Gonzalez that is a legitimate daughter of Benito de Isla and a Maria de Isla, that's also a legitimate daughter of Benito de Isla, that's married to Captain Andres Martin de Sotomayor, not the Maria de Isla married to Cristobal Martin Lozano. This is proven by the testimony of Mateo Gonzalez de Rubalcava in this dispensa:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-X4SG-P
...que son bisnietos de dos hermanas que lo fueron doña María de Islas y doña Magdalena de Labezares quien tuvo por hijo a Bernardino de Islas y Bernardino de Islas a Nicolás de Dios Islas y Nicolás de Dios Islas tuvo por hija a María Catarina de Islas. Y de doña María de Islas tuvo por hija a Jacinta Martínez y Jacinta Martínez tuvo por hijo a Jacinto Díaz y Jacinto Díaz tuvo por hijo a José Díaz de León, pretenso.
The Maria de Isla that's married to Cristobal Martin Lozano is most likely the one described in a separate dispensa as mestiza hija bastarda de Benito de Islas, who's been mentioned in several posts in this forum, therefore making her also a sister to the other Maria de Isla y Moctezuma and Magdalena de Labezares. You can find more information on both Maria de Isla's and their sister Magdalena de Labezares here:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/22972
You can find your Maria de Isla's tree here:
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/De_Islas-25
Danny C. Alonso
Danny,
Thank you for answering. I have a different theory regarding Maria de Isla (married to Christobal Lozano). She is the niece of Maria de Isla (married to Andres Martin de Sotomayor).
According with the book "Genealogia de Nochistlan antiguo reino de la Nueva Galicia en el siglo XVII segun archivos parroquiales" (Jose Luis Vazquez y Rodriguez de Frias). Maria de Isla (married to Christobal Lozano) is the daughter of Francisco Gonzalez Martinez y Magdalena de la Besares (daughter of Benito Isla y "Juana Navarro?"). This couple had also another daughter Petronila de Ysla (according with the author unmarried).
Now, I found the baptismal record of LEONOR LOZANO ISLA (film # 299421 22 may 1617 El Sagrario/Aguascalientes).
"En la labor de Xiconaque en 22 de el mes de mayo de 1617 anos bauptize y pusse oleos a Leonor hija de Christoval Lozano y Maria de Isla, fueron sus padrinos FRANCISCO GONZALES, hermano de dicho Christoval Lozano y PETRONA DE ISLA, hermana de la dicha MARIA DE ISLA"
As you can see, the document of Leonor Lozano confirms at least part of the thesis of the book, Maria de Isla (married to Christoval) had a sister Petrona (Petronila) very likely unmarried. She is clearly not the bastard daughter of Benito, she is (very likely) the granddaughter of Benito.
Another important consideration are the years. Bernardino de Ysla (father of Benito de Ysla) died before 1566, in el Archivo General de Indias there is a document regarding the dispute (Disputa de Bienes) of Bernardino de Ysla, the document has a date of 1573 and 1588. In that document Benito is not mentioned because surely Benito was already dead. The widow Magdalena de la Besares is mentioned, as well the brother and sister of Benito. On the other hand Maria de Isla (married to Christoval Lozano) was having children in 1617, very likely Maria de Isla (married to Christoval) was born around 1595-1600.
Another point, Benito's arrival to New Spain was on 1557 (according with the document that we all have). If Benito was 20-25 years old (maybe more) he had to be born around 1530-1537. That would make him 70 years old when Maria de Isla (married to Christoval) was born. But based on my previous point Benito very likely was already dead when Maria de Isla (married to Christoval) was born. Just a Thought
Thank you again Danny
Saludos desde Seattle
Susana L
Susana
Could you please tell me where to find the disputa? I tried PARES and found nothing.
Thank you,
Alex
Susana
Could you please tell me where to find the disputa? I tried PARES and found nothing.
Thank you,
Alex
Susana,
I've seen this baptism several times, and I'm not sure what it changes. If you look at the link to the tree I provided and based on the available dispensas and other records where they are named, Maria de Isla is already listed as the sibling to the other Maria de Isla, as well as, the sister to Magdalena Lavazares and Petrona de Isla. Also, I already have Cristobal Lozano listed as the (uncertain) brother of Francisco Gonzalez. The thing that might change things is the death of a Benito de Isla, if true, before 1573. Since we know that the Maria de Isla married to Andres Martin de Sotomayor was for certain born very close to 1600 based on the fact that she was having children close to, if not actually, in the 1640s and since we know for an absolute certainty that this Maria de Isla is the proven daughter of Benito the Isla, we know for a fact that this particular Benito de Isla, father of Magdalena de Lavezares and Maria de Isla y Moctezuma, was in fact alive close to 1600. So, either you're wrong about Benito de Isla's death or it's a different Benito de Isla. The thread I provided the link to had mentioned various theories that there were possibly two Benito de Islas. If it can be proven that Benito de Isla, son of Bernardino de Isla and Magdalena Lavezares was dead by 1573 than there's definitely a missing generation. Another thing, if Juana Navarro did have children with Benito de Isla, based on the generally accepted timeframe regarding the birth of Petronila de Moctezuma, if Juana Navarro is her daughter, she wouldn't be anywhere close to childbearing years until mid 1580s, which again would disprove the death of Benito de Isla anywhere close to 1573, unless it's a different Benito de Isla.
Danny C. Alonso
Danny,
I believe in the current theory, the Benito de Isla (I) which came from Spain is not the same as the one that (maybe) married Juana Navarro, but the father of another Benito de Isla (II). Reason being there still is a generation required to get Magdalena Labesares (I) in the bloodline, who would be the wife of Benito de Isla (I) and grandmother to Magdalena Labesares (II) who married Francisco Gonzalez.
That was from memory, I may be wrong!
Alex
Hola Susana,
The link that Danny provided appears overwhelming, but it has a lot of good info. Here it is again, for your convenience: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/22972
Read my post from 28 May 2015; in the last paragraph, I include another clue supporting that Cristobal Lozano and Francisco Martinez Gonzalez were brothers.
Otherwise, from documents we’ve seen, we know only that Benito de la Isla had 3 daughters: Maria de Islas y Moctezuma, Magdalena de Lavezaris, and their mestiza half-sister, Maria de Islas.
I’ve seen nothing linking Benito de la Isla cc Juana Navarro to this family, other than the the corresponding name & surname. Nor have we seen anything linking Maria de Isla cc Cristobal Lozano to this family (along with her supposed sister, Petrona). The surname “Isla/s” was used by various individuals and families throughout Colonial Mexico, and it’s hard to determine whether there are any links. Everything is still speculation, at this point.
Alex, go to PARES, then cut & past this into the search field: Juro a favor de Magdalena de Besares, Bartolomé de Isla, Sebastián Besares y Bernardina de Isla de 3.447 maravedís.
It’s only the index, and there is no date, only that it’s from the 2nd half of the XVI century.
In the same above-mentioned thread, I cite other PARES documents suggesting that Benito’s mother, Magdalena de Lavezaris (along with Sebastian Besares mentioned above) lived in Mexico during the 1530’s, with her supposed brother, Guido the bookseller. The Lavezaris originated in Genoa, Italy; I believe that Rick Ricci has suggested that the “Isla/s” surname also originated in Italy, which would make sense: apparently, several genovese booktraders moved to Sevilla during the late XV Century.
That's my 2c.
Gracias y Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Ok I was able to find the document, thanks a million Manny!
Now as the description is quite short, does it state that a judgement to Magdalena de Besares, Bartolomé de Isla, Sebastián Besares y Bernardina de Isla has been for a sum of money? I dont believe it necessarily means Magdalena de Besares is a widow?
What a totally interesting document with that combo of surnames in Spain!
Manny I saw your timeline but to clarify, are you thinking Magdalena Lebasares' (m. Francisco Gonzalez) father Benito was the same Benito to travel to the Americas with Guido Lebasares?
Alex
Alex
I'm not opposed to the idea of two Benito de Isla's. I've just never seen an actual document that definitely says that there are two and I think the dates still work fine with just one Benito de Isla. If you figure that Benito de Isla was fairly young when he came over in 1557, which would make sense since he's listed as the servant of his uncle Guido de Lavezares, then he was probably born sometime around 1540. There's no issue with him being alive and having kids in the 1580s or even 1600s, that is of course if he didn't die before 1573. But, there's no way that Maria de Isla y Moctezuma or Magdalena de Lavezares were born prior to 1573, so their Benito de Isla was definitely alive well after 1573. Also since Juana Navarro has come up I also think that she's the wife of Benito de Isla and most like the mother of Maria de Isla y Moctezuma and probably Magdalena de Lavezares. Jaime Holcombe names her as the wife of Benito de Isla and her specific date of death and even her albaceas and where they were vecinos of. That's too specific for him to not have seen the actual record.
Danny C. Alonso
I agree with Danny. Benito de Isla was young when he crossed the Atlantic. The only detail that I disagree with Danny is Benito's age. I believe that he was younger than seventeen. When looking at all the information together, it seems as he was just about to, or had just become, a teenager.
Danny's comment about Jaime Holcombe providing much detail about Benito de Isla reminds me of the issue of Petronila Moctezuma. Many people still claim that it has not been proven that she was a descendant of Moctezuma because they don't have a primary source document to prove it. But they are wrong, it has been proven. Just because I can't produce the document because it has become lost does not mean that it didn't exist. I saw and held the evidence of her descent from Moctezuma with my own eyes and hands. I have provided details previously of what the document in previous posts. I have even provided that the primary source document has a slight error in our eyes. The author of the primary document stated that she was a granddaughter of Moctezuma. The precise wording should have been great granddaughter. The document is even dated in the narrative as it states that Lope Ruiz de Esparza had arrived two years earlier and that he had married Petronila Moctezuma some time between his arrival and the writing of the document. Since I have seen first hand the documentation, and the library insists that nothing was thrown away, just moved around, the document will one day be found in the library of the Mormon temple on Santa Monica Blvd in west Los Angeles.
Thank you Danny for presenting the case for one Benito de Isla. Like you, I am not completely against the idea of there being two Benito de Isla, but feel that Jaime Holcombe most likely had a primary source(s) from where he got his information. The only issue is that he is not around to question regarding his source(s). Since I am still around, I can adamantly state that there is primary source evidence of Petronila's descent from Moctezuma II. By the way, Moctezuma was never known during his life time as the "II". He was called Moctezuma the Younger. The Aztecs did not use a numbering system like first second or third in people's names.
Thanks again Danny,
Rick A. Ricci
It’s been so long since I’ve looked at these lines - I backburner’d them, for lack of documentation, just waiting til someone comes up with the missing piece to the puzzle.
But I agree with Rick; I think Benito could’ve been as young as 12 when he passed to Indies, placing his birth as late as 1545. So he can still be father of the 2 Maria’s & Magdalena. Whether he’s the same who was married to the Navarro girl, it’s still beyond me, without more documentation on that couple.
But, reading these recent entries has stirred-up some new ideas, and here’s some food for thought:
“Omissions” come to mind, for me, a lot these days. What I mean is, the surname “Isla/s” is associated with Magdalena de Lavezaris cc Francisco Martinez Gonzalez: she used it, and her descendants used it. Then, why didn’t her supposed sister, Maria de Islas y Moctezuma, use “Lavezaris"? And for that matter, why didn’t Maria de Islas name any of her children “Benito,” “Bernardino” or “Magdalena,” if those were the names of her father and grandparents? She had 12 kids, after all. And, likewise, why didn’t Magdalena de Lavezaris or her descendants use the imperial surname?
It could be just a breaking with tradition, but these are viable questions, and they got me thinking: the only thing linking Magdalena de Lavezaris and Maria de Islas as sisters, is that one dispensation, written years after their deaths. What if they weren’t sisters? What if they were aunt & niece? What if Maria de Islas is daughter of a sibling of Magdalena de Lavezaris (i.e., Benito de la Isla “II”), who married into the Moctezuma line (Juana Navarro)? The timeline works: Andres Martin cc Maria de Islas baptized Nicolas in 1626, so she could’ve been born as late as 1610. This would give us the source of “Moctezuma” in her name, and explain why it’s never associated with Magdalena de Lavezaris, while linking Juana Navarro to Martin Gabay and Doña Petronila. All packaged so neatly, reconciling timelines and surnames, and with an Aztec bow on top!
But this is speculation, and we just have to wait until someone uncovers that missing piece. It’s out there, and someone will find it!
Thank you for the wonderful Sunday afternoon discussion!
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Manny,
I think a lot of the names have to be specific for them to use a certain apellido. Like only people named Magdalena use Labezares and the only child of Andres Martin de Sotomayor and Maria de Isla y Moctezuma to use the Moctezuma name is the other Maria de Isla y Moctezuma. It makes me wonder whether there's a specific Moctezuma named Maria that they're all named after. Like all the Ana Dominguez's named after Ana Dominguez.
Also, I don't think Maria not naming her kids Magdalena or Benito really is that significant. I've seen lots of instances in my tree where families name their children after a specific ancestor and they continue the practice without using the names of the other sibling. I think that the parents decide to honor a specific ancestor or specific line and the children continue to honor that.
Also about Magdalena de Labezares not using the imperial name. It's possible that only Maria de Isla y Moctezuma married to Andres Martin de Sotomayor is the only one that descends from Moctezuma. If she is the daughter of Juana Navarro and Juana Navarro is the daughter of Petronila de Moctezuma and assuming Petronila was born about 1555, then Juana Navarro was born in the 1570s at the very earliest, meaning the very earliest Maria de Isla y Moctezuma could be born is the mid to late 1580s and I actually think she was born much later. Either way she's definitely the youngest of the three known siblings. I actually think the mestiza Maria de Isla and Magdalena de Labezares are close to a decade older than Maria de Isla y Moctezuma.
So, it's possible that all of the siblings are half siblings with different mothers.
Danny C. Alonso
Im in the process of catching up with everyone regarding the trees tied to the siblings of Magdalena Lebasares (m Francisco Gonzalez). I havent seen the use of Moctezuma in the surname for Maria Islas. What is the source for this?
Hi Alex,
A known daughter of Maria de Isla y Moctezuma and Cap. Andres Martin de Sotomayor, married Agustin Lopez de la Cerda. Proof that she uses the name is in this dispensa:
Hacienda de Ciénega de Mata. Ojuelos de Jalisco. Jal Octubre 27 de 1748 Exp 95- Dispensa de tercero grado y cuarto grado, ambos de afinidad por cópula licita - Santiago López de la Cerda, español de 31 años de edad, originario de esta hacienda en la Estancia de las Papas, hijo legítimo de Don Juan López de la Cerda y de Doña Anna Maria Muñoz de la Barba, ya difuntos; con María Antonia Negrete, española de 35 años de edad, originaria de la Villa de San Felipe. Obispado de Michoacán. y residente en esta hacienda, en la Estancia de los Gachupines de esta feligresía de la Ciénega de Mata, viuda de Joseph Moreno Sotomayor. Declaración del pretenso: Por ser primo segundo del difunto Joseph Moreno Sotomayor, porque su padre Juan López de la Cerda, era primo hermano de Sebastiana Martín, madre del dicho Joseph Moreno. Declaración de Don Manuel Espinosa, español de 70 años de edad: Que Doña María de Islas Montezuma, abuela del pretenso, era hermana de Isidro Martín padre de Sebastiana Martín, madre de Joseph Moreno, difunto. Se otorgó la dispensa en la Ciudad de Guadalajara.
Also, the same daughter of Capitan Andres Martin de Sotomayor and Maria de Isla on her testamento, which is much closer to the relevant timeframe, names her as Maria de Islas y Sotomayor and describes her as "hija del Capitan Andres Martin y Sotomayor y de Maria de Isla y Moctezuma." So, two separate documents show both mother and daughter using the name Maria de Isla y Moctezuma.
Chris
Dear Manny,
I read over and over your speculation on the Islas - Moctezuma link. It does make sense as it takes all the people and timelines into consideration. As you wrote, the only issue is that dispensation, but it wouldn't be the first time that a marriage dispensation written many years later contains an error. Hopefully one day we find a puzzle piece that clarifies the family tree.
Manny's statement/speculation:
"It could be just a breaking with tradition, but these are viable questions, and they got me thinking: the only thing linking Magdalena de Lavezaris and Maria de Islas as sisters, is that one dispensation, written years after their deaths. What if they weren’t sisters? What if they were aunt & niece? What if Maria de Islas is daughter of a sibling of Magdalena de Lavezaris (i.e., Benito de la Isla “II”), who married into the Moctezuma line (Juana Navarro)? The timeline works: Andres Martin cc Maria de Islas baptized Nicolas in 1626, so she could’ve been born as late as 1610. This would give us the source of “Moctezuma” in her name, and explain why it’s never associated with Magdalena de Lavezaris, while linking Juana Navarro to Martin Gabay and Doña Petronila. All packaged so neatly, reconciling timelines and surnames, and with an Aztec bow on top!" (Manny)
Thanks again,
Rick A. Ricci
Danny,
My only point is that, I'm not convince that Maria de Islas (wife of Christobal Martinez Lozano) is the mestiza daughter of Benito de Islas. I'm sure you have seen the marriage information between Pedro Rodriguez and Petrona de Islas (Nochistlan 1 Aug 1680). The marriage relationships talks about the descendants of Luisa de isla (dau of Maria de Isla mestiza). Luisa de Isla (married Antonio de Aguayo) very likely lived in Nochistlan. On the other hand Maria de Isla (married to Christobal) lived in Aguascalientes, Aguas. Maria de isla and Christoval Lozano didn't have a daughter named Luisa de Isla, that the document in Nochistlan is refering to. The only thing that I know for sure is Maria de Isla (married to Christoval) had a sister named Petronila de Isla, but at the same time I don't know for sure who are the parents of both.
I was reading one more time the letters of Jaime Holcombe (Mary Lou Montagna) on the subject. it is very interesting that Maria de islas (wife of Christobal) was always refereed as MARIA GONZALEZ DE ISLAS. By the way in the same letters they believe that the father of MARIA GONZALEZ DE ISLAS was Blas de Islas. I don't know who is Blas de Islas. Also I don't know why in the letters the name of MARIA DE ISLAS is always MARIA GONZALEZ DE ISLAS. Then now I have 2 authors (book about Nochistlan and Holcombe/Montagna) that didn't believe that the father of MARIA GONZALEZ DE iSLAS (wife of Christobal) was Benito de Islas.
Saludos
Susana
Hi Susana,
I too descend from this couple and I'm confused by a couple of your statements. I'm familiar with the dispensa you refer to, but I'm unsure of what you're stating it's proof of. You tend to make definitive sounding statements and then offer very little in the way of actual proof. I can tell you I too am not sure who the parents of Maria de Isla married to Cristoval Lozano are either, but suggesting that Luisa de Isla, daughter of Maria de Isla, hija bastarda de Benito de Isla, most likely lived in Nochistlán and Maria de Isla, wife of Cristobal Martinez Lozano lived in Aguascalientes is rather unusual proof of anything. Are you suggesting that a child can't live in a different city from their parents? That's rather odd. Then you offer the statement, "Maria de isla and Christoval Lozano didn't have a daughter named Luisa de Isla." Are you saying you're not aware of a child named Luisa or that they definitely didn't have a daughter named Luisa?
I re-read the letters of Jaime Holcombe too and you have to remember that there are errors in even the best genealogical works.
So here's a question that maybe Chris or Manny or Alex can answer. In Holcombe's letters there's this passage about Nicolasa Ruiz de Esparza, daughter of Luisa Ruiz de Esparza who is the daughter of Pedro Ruiz de Esparza and Juana "Maria" Lozano:
“Y la pretensa (Nicolasa Ruiz de Esparza) es mestiza porque su padre es mestizo y su madre es casi india.” If Luisa de Esparza was “almost an Indian,” why, that takes back to her Grandparents, Lópe Ruiz de Esparza and Francisca de Gabay y Moctezuma; Cristóbal Martínez Lozano and María González de Islas. One of the witnesses was her Grandfather, Pedro Ruiz de Esparza y Gabay, married 2) Margarita González..."
So, Jaime Holcombe has Cristobal Martin Lozano and Maria de Islas as the parents of Juana "Maria" Lozano and obviously Lope Ruiz de Esparza and Francisca de Gabay y Moctezuma are the parents of Pedro Ruiz de Esparza. So if this dispensa is correct it would be "somewhat" proof of Maria de Isla being the mestiza daughter of Benito de Isla or it's another error.
We know that Pedro Ruiz de Esparza can't be the source of the indian blood. Even if Petronila de Moctezuma is the great granddaughter of Moctezuma, she wouldn't be india, at best she's castiza, which would make Ana Francisca Gabay y Moctezuma an española, making Pedro Ruiz de Esparza an español too.
So, if Holcombe is right and knowing that Pedro Ruiz de Esparza can't be the source of the indian blood than we're left with Cristobal Martin Lozano and Maria de Islas. We can rule out Cristobal Martin Lozano, since we know that all his ancestors were from Spain, so the only possible source of Luisa de Esparza's indian blood is Maria de Islas.
Still though it's probly an error, since we know that three quarters of her grandparents are españoles, at best, if Holcombe is correct, then Luisa de Esparza would only be castiza, certainly not casi india. Thoughts?
Danny C. Alonso
I think I found out where to look for military records of individuals that served in the americas. Such as Nueva Espana (Mexico):
Hola primo,
There are some military records available through FamilySearch. Here's a description and the link:
Microfilme de manuscritos en la Sección de Guerra Moderna del Archivo General de Simancas.
El Virreinato de la Nueva España en la era colonial comprendía los estados modernos de México; California, Nuevo México, y Tejas de los EE.UU.; y Filipinas.
Un índice alfabético por apellidos se ha publicado como Catálogo XXII del Archivo de Simancas, Secretaría de Guerra (Siglo XVIII), Hojas de Servicios de América (en la FHL es un libro con el número de clasificación EUROPE 946 M23e).
Spaniards in the Viceroyalty of New Spain (which included Mexico; California, New Mexico, and Texas of the USA; and the Philippines); military service records, 1786-1800. For a surname index to these records, refer to Catálogo XXII del Archivo de Simancas, Secretaría de Guerra (Siglo XVIII), Hojas de Servicios de América (Family History Library call no. EUROPE 946 M23e).
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/238979?availability=Family%…
Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Hey thanks Manny!
How do I go about finding any on my surname "Madera?"
or historical figures like:
Don Fernando Campa y Cos
Capitan Dosal de Madrid
Hey thanks Manny!
How do I go about finding any on my surname "Madera?"
or historical figures like:
Don Fernando Campa y Cos
Capitan Dosal de Madrid
Hello, I came accross a Baptismo Record while doing research and I don't believe I've ever seen this.
It is not a common practice, and typically it is only seen in the older records. When a newborn child was perceived to be at risk of dying, and a priest was not nearby (rural areas) it was permissible to place holy water on the child and say some prescribed words to baptize the child. I have seen where the same person is performing the "conditional" baptism, so I assume that a few people from each rancho is selected and instructed by the parish priest on how to perform the act.
Saludos
Austin Pérez
Anna and Austin are correct: many people lived on ranchos, labores or haciendas, far from the town center, and because of the distances, clerics could not always be summoned in time. That’s why you’ll see on some burial records that the deceased didn’t receive last rites, “because of the suddenness of the illness.” In the case of newborns in danger of dying (“en caso de necesidad,” or “in articulo mortis”), if there wasn’t time to summon a priest, a lay person could perform an “emergency baptism,” who would’ve sprinkled holy water (“echar el agua”) and recited the correct biblical passages. If the child survived, the person who performed the baptism would be reviewed, to verify that he was a “capable person, and who knows the material and ways of this sacrament.” I suppose the baptism would later be completed, as the priest still had to anoint the child with “Santos Olios y Chrisma.”
I thought perhaps only pre-approved laypeople could perform these - I have an ancestor who owned an hacienda, and he performed several, and another who was a mayordomo on an hacienda, who also did several, but I also had an ancestor who was neither, yet he once baptized a child “in articulo mortis” in his own home (on the same day his own child was baptized "in articulo mortis" in the home of the mayordomo!).
Chao,
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Thank you everyone,
Every response to my question makes perfect sense. The record does appear to be a completion of the baptism.
Thanks
Ruben R
Hello!
Right now I cannot see the image (it's not letting me open records), but I can think of two possible reasons. If there is a priest in the record, it could mean that Don Antonio Marmolejo presented the child to baptise because their parents were not available for whatever reason.
I assume there is no priest, so I would think the second reason: in Catholic religion, I understand that any person can baptise if the unbaptised person is dying. So perhaps the child (or adult even) was in grave danger or close to dying, and since they were unable to get them to the church in time they had to perform the baptism themselves, in order to save their soul (for if someoene dies unbaptised they can never enter Heaven).
Now, idk if there is another reason historically speaking. But religiously, I think this could be the case.
*RESUMEN:* son 193 paginas Título de la unidad: "Informaciones: Francisco
de Covarrubias"
Archivo: Archivo General de Indias
Signatura: GUADALAJARA,48,N.23
http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas/ser
Hi Salvador, is this Francisco de Covarrubias related to the Covarrubias family of Los Altos? SO far I have the oldest one as Jose de Covarrubias born ca. 1655. who married Leonor Muñoz de Hermosillo. Do you have more info on this family?
-Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
De echo el llego como contador a Guadaljara
pero no tengo nombres de hijos y una hija le puso el apellido Covarrubias a un hijo
acinto Talamantes-Ysabel Covarrubias
Lucas Covarrubias---------------------- 1---------------- Pedro Covarrubias
Melchora Covarrubias------------------ 2---------------- Antonio Covarrubias
Marcos Raygosa------------------------- 3---------------- Agustín Covarrubias
la pretensa---------------------------- 4---------------- el pretenso
En abril o mayo de 1592 en Guadalajara, fue presentado como testigo para la información de méritos y servicios de Cristóbal de Covarrubias Quijada, clérigo presbítero, hijo legítimo del contador Francisco de Covarrubias y de Doña María Bermúdez, su primera mujer. Según su declaración, ésta había sido su sobrina.
DE echo una hija de el se casa con Francisco escobedo y es todo lo que me une a el
1. -Maria de Covarrubias nació en Zacatecas, Zacatecas, Mexico y tuvo su bautismo infantil en Zacatecas, Zacatecas, Mexico. Ella murió el 16 Octubre 1646 en Zacatecas, Zacatecas, Mexico.
-Maria se casó con -Frrancisco de Escobedo Y Diaz, hijo de -Hernando de Escobedo y -Mari Diaz, el 24 Abril 1647 en Zacatecas, Zacatecas, Mexico. -Frrancisco nació en 1575 en Zacatecas, Zacatecas, Mexico y tuvo su bautismo infantil en Zacatecas, Zacatecas, Mexico. Él murió el 24 Abril 1647 en Zacatecas, Zacatecas, Mexico.
Segunda generación
2. Francisco de Cobarrubias se casó Isabel O Rodas de Rivas.
3. Isabel O Rodas de Rivas.
Tercera generación
4. -Francisco de Cobarrubias nació en 1543 en Granada, España. y tuvo su bautismo infantil en Granada, España.. Él murió en Granada, España.. -Francisco se casó -Maria Bermudez en 1559.
5. -Maria Bermudez nació en Granada, España. y tuvo su bautismo infantil en Granada, España.. Ella murió en Granada, España..
6. Francisco Solano Calderon nació en Trujillo Badajoz España. Él se casó Francisca Jimenez Altamirano.
7. Francisca Jimenez Altamirano nació en Trujillo Badajoz España.
Cuarta generación
8. -Gaspar de Cobarrubias nació en 1538 en Granada, España. y tuvo su bautismo infantil en Granada, España.. Él murió en Granada, España.. -Gaspar se casó con -Margarita Quijada en 1538 en Granada España.
9. -Margarita Quijada nació en Granada, España. y tuvo su bautismo infantil en Granada, España.. Ella murió en Granada, España..
10. -Martin Bermudez nació en Granada, España. y tuvo su bautismo infantil en Granada, España.. Él murió en Granada, España.. -Martin se casó -Catalina de Osuna.
11. -Catalina de Osuna nació en Granada, España. y tuvo su bautismo infantil en Granada, España.. Ella murió en Granada, España..
SALVADOR CABRAL VALDES
Salvador:
En tu mensaje mencionas que:
-Maria se casó con -Frrancisco de Escobedo Y Diaz, hijo de -Hernando de Escobedo y -Mari Diaz, el 24 Abril 1647 en Zacatecas, Zacatecas, Mexico. -Frrancisco nació en 1575 en Zacatecas, Zacatecas, Mexico y tuvo su bautismo infantil en Zacatecas, Zacatecas, Mexico. Él murió el 24 Abril 1647 en Zacatecas, Zacatecas, Mexico.
Aqui dice que Maria Covarrubias era hija de Francisco Covarrubias e Isabel de Rodas. Cual es tu fuente documental para esto?
Tambien dice que Francisco Escobedo y Maria Covarrubias se casaron en 1647. Pero tambien dice que Francisco murio en la misma fecha. Esto no es posible. Tienes alguna fuente documental sobre el matrimonio de esta pareja? No es posible que se hayan casado tan tarde como 1647, debido que tenian hijos ya mayores (con sus propios hijos) a mediados de los 1600s. Su hijo Juan de Escobedo compro la hacienda de Juanacatic a mediados de los 1600s y si Isabel Covarrubias casada con Jacinto de Talamantes fue su hijo (lo cual yo tambien creo pero no tengo pruebas documentales), esa pareja tuvo hijos en los 1630s y 1640s (Pedro, Isabel, Lucas)
REGISTRO:
Jaime Holcombe, Diversas Cartas.
SALVADOR CABRAL VALDES
Disculpa
La fecha de Matrimonio Esta mal, Es la del dia que murio,
El Capitán Francisco de Escobedo, falleció en la madrugada del 24 de abril de 1647 en la ciudad de Zacatecas, según lo dijo ante el señor Corregidor de la ciudad , don Miguel de Iracoqui, su yerno y albacea de los por él nombrados en una escritura cerrada y sellada, testamento y última voluntad del Capitán Escobedo, que presentó al señor Corregidor. Sabiéndose por dicha escritura que sus herederos, lo fueron sus hijos legítimos: doña María de Covarrubias, Ana de Escobedo, Francisca de Covarrubias, Juan de Escobedo, Isabel de Rodas, Antonia de Covarrubias y Francisco de Escobedo. En esta escritura se dice: que su mujer María de Covarrubias murió el 16 de octubre de 1646, y que su hijo Fernando de Escobedo, ya era difunto.
SALVADOR CABRAL VALDES
Otro Dato encontrado pero que Según pero no me da fechas, dice que la esposa de Francisco Escobedo, Maria Covarrubias, fue hija de Pedro Medina, y Margarita de Covarubias, y esta al vez de Francisco Covarrubias, y de Maria Bernudez
y no lo tome en cuenta, difiere al lo que tengo,
este dato lo tengo de un intercambio de gedcom,
SALVADOR CABRAL VALDES
Salvador:
Yo he visto esa carta de Jaime Holcombe pero creo que su informacion esta mal. Me parece que como habia varias Isabel de Covarrubias, "se le chispotio" y las confundio. Las fechas de vida segun los documentos que he visto demuestran que eran diferentes mujeres. Creo que la Isabel de Covarrubias que se caso con Jacinto de Lopez Talamantes y cuyos hijos fueron Pedro, Lucas e Isabel, es la misma Isabel de Rodas que aparece como hija de Francisco de Escobedo y Maria de Covarrubias. Esto lo digo solamente porque sus hijo aparecen como terratenientes en Totatiche (Cartagenas) a mediados de los 1600s y estas tierras aparecen ver sido mercedadas o compradas por Francisco de Escobedo. Pero no tengo pruebas.
El problema con las cartas de Jaime Holcombe es que muchas no tienen las fuentes de informacion bien anotadas y asi no puede uno verificar los datos. Peor los interacmbios de GEDCOM que muchas veces son basados en datos erroneos que se siguen propagando. Como genealogistas serios tenemos que requerir fuentes documentales y no aceptar datos sin tales fuentes.
Descendencia de esta pareja:
http://www.ramosfamily.org/nextgen/getperson.php?personID=I1085
I am working on my Covarrubias Genealogy. I descend from Francisco Covarrubias who married 1) Maria Bermudez and 2) Maria de Colio.
I requested "1585-1586. Genealogical information on Francisco de Covarrubias." Box 1, HM 35149. from the Mexican Inquisition Papers located at Huntington Library. See https://oac.cdlib.org/findaid/ark:/13030/kt8w10409n/entire_text/
Unfortunately I made a bad (expensive) bet and this is not my Francisco Covarrubias, but at least I can hope this information will help people on this forum.
It is a 87 pg primary source document. This is for Francisco Covarrubias who married Isabel de Rodas. I have finished reading it. Its very repetitive and does not provide too much information, but here is what I have extracted.
The documents were compiled in 1585-1586 in Zacatecas.
Francisco Covarrubias is from the villa of Covarrubias in Burgos. He is the son of Martin Navarrete and Isabel Hernandez (or maybe Fernandez) de Logrono.
Martin Navarrete and Isabel Hernandez de Logrono also were the parents of Pedro Navarrete, el viejo, Francisco Covarrubias' brother. Pedro, el viejo, married Marina Sanz de Nebrada. They had Pedro Navarrete, el mozo, who is an escribano publico (I understand the document as reading el mozo was the escribano)
Marina Sanz de Nabrada was the daughter of Nicolas Garcia and Marina Sanz Garcia
Francisco Covarrubias was married to Isabel de Rodas. She is the daughter of Francisco Solano Calderon and Francisca Jimenez Altamirano. They were from Villa de Garcias in Trujillo.
Therefore it is confirmed this Francisco Covarrubias is not related to Francisco Covarrubias, son of Gaspar Covarrubias and Margarita Quijada, who married 1) Maria Bermudez and 2) Maria de Colio.
Dear Alex,
Like you, I have often lost time and money going up a wrong trail in search for ancestors. Though it was bad luck that you weren’t able to connect your ancestors here, it was my great luck that you did spend this time and money. I had been struck on Jose Covarrubias’s ancestry for many years. It wasn’t until you brought up this info that the pieces came together. I had tried to connect Jose to the contador not realizing that I descended from the Francisco Covarrubias that was the son of Martin Navarrete and Isabel Hernandez de Logrono.
1. Martin Navarrete (de Covarrubias )and Isabel Hernandez (de Logroño)
2. Francisco Covarrubias married to Ysabel De Rodas (daughter of Francisco Solano Calderon and Francisca Jimenez Altamirano)
3. Ysabel De Covarrubias y Rodas + Alonso Pérez (This is one of three husbands of Ysabel)
4. José Cobarrubias Ancestor of many of the Covarrubias in Los Altos de Jalisco.
Thank you,
Rick A. Ricci
Does anyone know how to access the digital images referenced on these pages?
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/1497850?availability=Family…
Hello Richard,
They are not yet available online due to contractual obligations with the owners of the original documents. (Mexican government and/or Catholic Church) I sent off a question to familysearch.org, using their help email address, and they mentioned something to that effect.
I'm anxiously waiting to get access to the second collection you mentioned, I have a LOT of Michoacan ancestors that I know will be contained in those documents.
Best,
Daniel Serna Valencia
Hi Daniel,
Thank you for inquiring about this! I also have ancestors from Michoacán and hope that these will become available soon!
Regards,
Richard
Estimados Señores,
Buen Dia Erik,
En mis datos tengo a Agustina de Tovar Orozco como hija de Tomas de Burgos Antolines y su esposa Maria de Orozco Tovar. Existe una dispensa matrimonial en donde nos aclara que Agustina tuvo un hermano, Marcos de Orozco:
Marcos de Orozco fue casado con Catalina de Bejines Romero por la informacion matrimonial dada por el casamiento de su hija Juana Bejines. Al principio de la informacion dada por el novio menciona que es hija de Marcos de Orozco de Burgos:
La prueba mas importante sobre quienes fueron los padres de Agustina esta en un testimonio que dio Domingo de Guizar Guerrero sobre la capellania que mando fundar su suegro Tomas de Burgos Antolines:
...y tanbien sabe este testigo como persona que bive y paga el senso que ynpuso sus suegros el Capitan tomas de burgos y maria de orozco en la hacienda de ganamuato..
Aqui te comparto el enlace al documento.
Aqui esta otro enlace que habla de una capellania que instituyo Tomas de Burgos Antolines como albacea de Isabel Munoz, esposa de Pedro Fernandez de Aguilera (el mozo) - hermano de Maria de Orozco. Aqui el enlace.
En si Maria de Orozco (madre de Agustina de Tovar Orozco), Pedro Fernandez de Aguilera (el mozo), Isabel de Orozco (esposa de Juan Lucas Morcillo) fueron hermanos y hijos de Pedro Fernandez Aguilera y Beatriz de Orozco.
Espero te sirvan estos datos.
Saludos,
Daniel Serna Valencia
Estimado Daniel,
Muchas gracias por los enlaces, son magníficos; me han servido y he disfrutado bastante leerlos. Me queda todo claro.
Nuevamente gracias por tu generosidad y ayuda.
Saludos,
Erik
Olvidé aclarar que Francisco de Orozco Tovar y Sotelo era hijo de Diego de Orozco Tovar y Gasca y de Leonor Sotelo. De ahí mi pregunta.
Estimados Señores,
Estimado Erik:
Parece que el primer en usar el apellido Enríquez de Toledo eran en al fines del siglo XV, los hijos de Diego Enríquez, III conde de Alba de Liste casado en primer nupcias Aldonza Leonor Álvarez de Toledo, hija del famoso duque de Alba. Según una monografía que encontré (todavía no he terminado de revisar todo) tuvieron Enrique Enríquez, IV conde de Alba de Liste, por una razón lo más que estudio esta familia el condado de Alba de Liste no podía heredar las hembras. El otro hijo era Antonio Enríquez de Toledo, VI conde de Alba de Liste hubo gran endogamia en esta familia donde casa los tíos con sobrinas, sobrinos con tías que la sucesión de dicho condado era una locura llego a los primos Enríquez de Almanza parientes de los duques de Gandía. Todos descendientes, pues éstos del Alfonso XII de Castilla. La familia Enríquez era bastante grande más con sus líneas rivales. Me preguntó como conecta si lo es estos a los Valladolid de Michoacán.
Daniel Méndez Camino
Estimado Daniel,
Muchas gracias por la información respecto al Obispo Enríquez de Toledo. Sí, son antepasados míos, soy descendiente de Diego de Orozco y Tovar y de María Enríquez de Toledo.
Antes de este matrimonio Orozco y Toledo no encuentro otros Toledo salvo los de Pátzcuaro pero aquellos son otra rama, no son Enríquez y son los descendientes del tesorero Juan Moreno Álvarez de Toledo y de su esposa Leonor de Valdivia (Morales)
Mil gracias por tu apoyo,
Estimado Erik:
Mi mente suena cuando menciona las familias Álvarez del Castillos, Pérez de Garfías y los Gil de Hoyos pues se víncularon muy cercano con mis Méndez de Torres en el siglo XVII. Que bueno que inició este tema: ya que he notado que el Obispado de Michoacán una región que quizás no se ha estudiado bastantemente como la Nueva Galicia.
El obispo Alonso Enríquez de Toledo era obispo de la Isla de Cuba llegó a la Nueva España en el primer cuarto del siglo XVII cuya pasaje es conocida. Esta familia, espero que éstos de Michoacán no componieron su apellido en México: Enríquez+Toledo, Si son los mismos Enríquez de Toledo, casa ilustre eran pues los condes de Alba de Liste, según mis estudios son vínculados muy cercano con las familias Álvarez de Toledo, Fernández de Córdoba, Enríquez de Guzmán y los Fajardo, pues los marqueses de los Vélez.
Dejamé revisar mis notas ojalá encuentro algo. Por casualidad a que punto ha llegado a cuanto este liñaje, es su línea directa? Seríamos más útiles si nos podía proporcionar cronología, nombre y fechas aproximadas.
Revisé mis notas sobre los Orozco y tengo como mujer de Diego de Orozco y Tovar a Ana de Mejía estoy en error? O es otro Diego?
Daniel Méndez Camino
Here is an archive that you can browse fleets of ships with names of passengers that traveled from Spain to the Americas. It is under the term "Relacion de Pasajeros:"
Starts on pg2:
unfortunately i haven't been able to find some of born in spain ancestors on that list
Thank you so much for the link. I was already looking at some of the list.
gracias!!
susana
I believe I have connected the descendants of Geronimo Sanchez de Porras and Mariana Suarez de Ibarra to Francisco de Covarrubias y Leyva , Contador, son of Gaspar Covarrubias and Margarita de Quijada
Antonia de Covarrubias Leyva, niece to Gaspar Covarrubias is an ancestor to:
"Santa Maria de las Maravillas de Jesus"
María de las Maravillas was born in Madrid, Spain, on 4 November 1891, the daughter of Luis Pidal y Mon, the Marquis of Pidal, and Cristina Chico de Guzmán y Muńoz. At the time her father was the Spanish Ambassador to the Holy See, and she grew up in a devout Catholic family.
María made a vow of chastity at the age of five and devoted herself to charitable work. After coming into contact with the writings of St John of the Cross and St Teresa of Jesus, she felt called to become a Discalced Carmelite. Her father, whom she had faithfully assisted when he became ill, died in 1913, and her mother was reluctant to accept her daughter's decision to enter the Carmelite monastery.
However, on 12 October 1919, María did enter the Discalced Carmelites of El Escorial in Madrid. She made her simple vows on 7 May 1921.
Before her final profession on 30 May 1924, Sr María had already received a special call from God to found the Carmel of Cerro de los Ángeles, and the foundation was inaugurated on 31 October 1926 with three other Carmelites. This was the first of the series of Teresian Carmelite Monasteries that she would establish, according to the Rule and Constitutions of the Discalced Carmelites. María was not being called to found a new order or to "branch off" from the Discalced Carmelites - she herself was very careful in pointing this out; she only sought to live deeply and to transmit the spirit and ideals of St Teresa of Jesus and St John of the Cross.
On 28 June 1926, the Bishop of the Diocese of Madrid-Alcalá appointed her prioress of the new monastery. In 1933 she established another foundation in Kottayam, India, and from this Carmel other foundations were started in India.
Her role as prioress would be permanent in the various monasteries she founded throughout her life, notwithstanding the natural aversion and sense of inadequacy she felt in accepting positions of responsibility. María's spirit of obedience and love for the Church and for her Carmelite sisters, however, gave her the strength and diligence to carry out this duty with love.
Mother Maravillas was often criticized for the poverty of the convents she founded; charges were made that they were "not solid", small in size and unfurnished, with bare walls on which hung chosen Bible verses or writings of the Carmelite saints. She would reply, however, that "it is not our concern to plant a seed, since the Discalced Carmelites have already been founded. Even if our convents collapse, nothing will happen".
During the Spanish Civil War, the nuns of Cerro de los Ángeles lived in an apartment in Madrid. In September 1937 another Carmel in the Batuecas, Salamanca, was founded. In 1939 the monastery of Cerro de los Ángeles was restored. Even amid enormous deprivation, Mother Maravillas instilled courage and happiness, always being an admirable example to her daughters.
But she also remained a mystery even to the nuns closest to her, since only her spiritual directors knew the "dark night of the soul" that she lived throughout her life, which kept her in profound spiritual aridity and trials, and made total faith and abandonment to the will of God her guide.
In the following years, foundations were established in other parts of Spain. Mother Maravillas also restored and sent nuns to her original Carmel of El Escorial and to the venerable monastery of the Incarnation in Avila.
In order to unite the monasteries founded by her and others that had the same finality, she founded the Association of St Teresa, which received official approval from the Holy See in 1972.
On 8 December 1974, the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception, Mother Maravillas was anointed and received Holy Communion. On 11 December, surrounded by her community in the Carmel of La Aldehuela, Madrid, she died. At the time of her death, her sisters report that Mother Maravillas kept repeating the phrase: "What happiness to die a Carmelite!". She was beatified by Pope John Paul II on 10 May 1998.
Biography provided by the Vatican
Here is the Covarrubias line
1). Juan Covarrubia
2) Hernando Covarrubia
3). Maria Covarrubia + Sebastian Martinez Leyva de Covarrubias
4) Alonso Leyva Covarrubia + Maria Gutierrez de Hegas
5) Gaspar Covarrubias Egas + Margarita Quijada
6) Francisco Covarrubias + Maria Bermudez (Aka Maria Colio)
Source: Mygenes2000 by R.A.Ricci
Rick
Amazing stuff your posting.
I'd like to clarify Francisco Covarrubias was married twice, first to Maria Ramirez Bermudez (hl Martin Bermudo and Catalina Asuna), with whom he came to the new world with, and then Maria Colio (hl Juan Guerra and Maria Colio).
Alex
Dear Alex,
I just caught that mistake and posted it at the same time that you did.
Sorry,
Rick A. Ricci
I am assuming that I posted a mistake and that Francisco Covarrubias was married at least twice. I believe Maria Bermudez and Maria Colio are two different people. My research focused on his ancestors and not on him so I do not know much of his wives or children.
Sorry about the mistake,
R.A. Ricci
I placed an updated Covarrubias line in the other Covarrubias thread under Toribio Hernandez Arellano thread.
I have obtained via ILL Fernández, R. (2003). La gran propiedad en Cocula de Ávalos 1539-1700. México, D.F: Instituto Nacional de Antropología e Historia.
Pg 280 states Francisco Covarrubias and Diego Covarrubias y Leyva were primos hermanos!
Diego de Covarrubias y Leiva was born in Toledo in 1512 and died in Madrid in 1577.
Francisco Covarrubias y Quijada was born in 1543 and died between 13/Jun/1600 & 6/Sep/1600
Francisco Covarrubias y Quijada was born 31 years after Diego Covarrubias y Leiva
Even though the source you provided states that he was a first cousin, the "Diccionario Biografico del Occidente Novohispano" identifies Diego Covarubbias as his "tio".
I think your source was trying to get the point across that they were very closely related, and they are.
If they were first cousins then Gaspar Covarrubias Hegas would have to be Alonso's brother and this is extremely unlikely. Alonso's brothers are well documented as they had a big part in the lives of Marco Covarrubias descendants and Gaspar is not mentioned in these documents.
I have no problem changing the family line if he is a cousin, but the information points to Diego Covarrubias being his uncle.
Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci
Do you know if Antonio Covarrubias, Alonso's brother, was married or had any children?
I will post the source soon. It has a genealogy for Figueroa/Banuelos
Dear Alex,
Yes, Alonso's brother, Antonio Covarrubias Leyva was married. I only know of one daughter that he was living with when he passed away.
Antonio Covarrubias Egas was born in 1524 and passed away on 23/Dec/1602. He was married int 1553 to Maria Tapia. Maria Tapia is a cousin to Saint Teresa de Jesus. St. Teresa D'avila informed Diego Covarrubias Leyva that his aunt, Maria Tapia, was her cousin. He quoted St Teresa's exact words in his writing.
Diego wrote when quoting St Teresa d' Avila:
(Me dijo estas palabras:...... "Sepa vuestra merced, señor prior, que díos le ha traído a esta casa, y que tiene obligación, de hacerme merced, aunque yo no me precío de las noblezas del mundo, no dejo de estimar lo que es de razón; y sepa que la Señora Doña Maria Tapia, su tía, es mi prima.....")
His daughter Maria Covarrubias married Hernando De Vega.
Hernando and Maria have a son "Don Fernando De Vega Covarrubia", Caballero de Santiago, Paje del Rey
There was another family member named "Antonio Covarrubias Leyva"but he was a priest and an official of the inquisition. This priest was a great grandson of Marco Covarrubias y Leyva. Many of the Orosco Covarrubias descendants used Covarrubias Leivas as their surname to as they weren't close to the Oroscos. They sought and received help from their uncles, the sons of Alonso Covarrubias Leyva. The help they received was an excellent education for many of them. These Covarrubias were so educated that even though they were "cristianos viejos" they were suspected of being Jewish by some just because their family put a heavy emphasis on education. The Orosco Covarubbias branch of the family did have Jewish ancestors through their Orosco line.
Alonso's nephew, Melchor, was the primary money source for the University in Puebla.
R.A. Ricci
Dear Alex,
Sebastian Martinez Leyva and Maria Covarrubias had four sons that I know of. The eldest is Marco Covarrubias Leyva. Second is Pedro Covarrubias Leyva. Third is Alonso Covarrubias Leyva. The fourth son is Juan Covarrubias Leyva. I have already mentioned Marco's two marriages and Alonso's marriage. Juan was a priest.
I have no information on Pedro Covarrubias other than that he was the second son. He is not mentioned by his nephews. I believe that he may have died at a young age. I don't see any records of Pedro being married or having children.
Diego and Francisco are not first cousins unless Gaspar is Alonso Covarrubia's brother that was originally named Pedro Covarrubias. I find this highly improbable.
Gaspar Covarrubias is not a son of Marco or Juan. Gaspar Covarrubias is the son of Alonso Covarrubias and Maria Gutierrez Hegas. Francisco Covarubias is the son of Gaspar Covarrubias.
Alonso Covarrubias Leyva and Maria Gutierrez Hegas are the parents of Diego, Antonio, Gaspar, Catalina, Isabel and Guiomar.
Gaspar, Catalina and Isabel definitely left descendants in the Americas. I am still researching Guiomar's descendants.
Melchor Covarrubias is the son of Catalina Covarrubias de Hegas. Melchor and Francisco are first cousins.
Since Diego and Gaspar are brothers, Diego is the uncle of Francisco Covarrubias.
Rick
Thank you for the family outline you have. Much appreciated.
Here is the source I was talking about. Ill post it to the Edward III post too and there is Figueroa and Banuelos in that tree.
If you descend from Catalina Figueroa y Angulo Torres cc Diego Covarruvias y Leyva Colio then this is a good reference for you.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55292850/Fern%C3%A1ndez%2C%20R%20(2…
Alex
Juan is not the father of Hernando. I will post Hernando Covarrubias ancestry later. The rest of the line is correct
1). --------Covarrubias
2) Hernando Covarrubias
3). Maria Covarrubias + Sebastian Martinez Leyva
4) Alonso Leyva Covarrubias + Maria Gutierrez de Hegas
5) Gaspar Covarrubias Egas + Margarita Quijada
6) Francisco Covarrubias Quijada
Source: Mygenes2000 by R.A.Ricci
https://books.google.com/books?id=nE1fAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA97&dq=pedro+garcia+…
Pg 97 may help with the further genealogy
Dear Alex,
This book does confirm what I have for one of his ancestors. It is the other lines, Maria Covarrubias maternal lines where I found an ancestry that connects with a lot of my other research.
Thanks,
Rick
I have a question for everyone, hoping you all can provide some insight.
Currently I have in my tree Francisco Suarez de Ibarra, the elder, having married twice: 1st Maria Martinez del Castillo and 2nd Isabel Pimentel.
The elder also had a son, Francisco Suarez de Ibarra, the younger, who married Elena Illan de Vargas.
I assumed the younger was the son of Isabel Pimentel because she is stated as the abuela of Francisco and Elena's daughter, Maria in her baptismal record:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-DJ99-TC?mode=g&i=20&wc=3JW…
However, I may have a new development. In a baptismal record from 1609 for Juana, right side second one down, states she was a slave of Francisco Suarez de Ibarra fue su padrino Francisco Suarez de Ibarra (el nino?):
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-2LSX-3G?mode=g&i=48&wc=3J6…
Am I reading this right? Is saying el nino the same as the younger? This would make Francisco the son of Francisco and Maria Martinez del Castillo rather than Isabel Pimentel.
Furthermore, I have one other document confirming his mother, however reading it again makes me unsure. Could someone who understand spanish much better please take a look? Right side 4th and 5th lines looks like Isabel Pimentel states Francisco de Ibarra is the legitimate son of her husband:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-7QQ1-2?mode=g&cat=356…
Thank you all
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-8BZF?i=77&cat=198…
This document shows that Francisco Covarrubias and Diego Covarrubias were the children of Francisco Covarrubias, contador, and Maria Colio
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-8YQM?i=186&cat=19…
This document names Catalina Angulo y Figueroa Torres' parents as Lemure? de Torres and Geronima Angulo y Figueroa
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-69L1-4?i=540&cat=…
This is I think Hernan Guerra's will naming his parents as Juan Guerra and Maria de Colio
Could someone please translate this for me?
FYI its page 25 of Francisco Covarrubias' Infomaciones
To me it reads as:
... Y como tales hijosdalgo fueron asi dados y tenidos en la ciudad de granada y sevilla donde fueron vecinos y en la villa de cobarrubias donde el dicho gaspar de cobarrubias era natural y la dicha Margarita Quijada en la villa de madrid donde era natural y en esta posesion les vieron estar sin oir ni ver cosa al contrario y en los hechos que en la ciudad de sevilla suele haber nunca les vieron pecar ni contribuir a sus abuelas en la villa de covarrubias y madrid por ser como es hijosdalgo y en esta posesion a estado y esta el dicho contador francisco covarrubias sin que los testigo ayan oido cosa en contraria teniendolo por tal hijodalgo digan lo que saben...
I might be off on a word or two as some of the abbreviations are unknown to me.
Daniel Serna Valencia
BTW, I noticed that you mention Catalina de Angulo. Her parents were Clemente de Torres and Geronima de Angulo y Figueroa.
In turn Geronima's parents were:
Pedro de Figueroa y Banuelos cc Beatriz de Angulo Montesinos
Pedro's parents were: Francisco de Figueroa and Ana Temino de Velasco y Banuelos
Beatriz's parents were: Alonso de Angulo Montesinos de ls Isla and Catalina de Lila Pereira
Alonso de Angulo's parents were: Alonso Martinez de Angulo and Juana Cervantes
Catalina's parents were: Juan Borallo Pereira and Beatriz Hernandez
These are families with deep roots in the antiguo Obispado de Michoacan. (Juan Borallo was a conquistador and one of the primeros pobladores of Michoacan)
The above information comes from the merits and limpieza de sangre of Pedro de Figueroa y Banuelos, priest, son of Pedro de Figueroa and Beatriz de Angulo Montesinos.
Daniel Serna Valencia
Thank you very much for the transcription. Could you explain to me why Sevilla is mentioned?
Also thank you for the genealogy. Where can I find the merits and limpieza de sangre of Pedro de Figueroa y Banuelos?
Alex
The context is that the people mentioned were neighbors of Sevilla in addition to the other cities, places mentioned.
I need to locate the scans of the limpieza de sangre of Pedro de Figueroa y Banuelos. As soon as I find, I'll try to upload it to this site and will let you know.
Daniel
Thank you very much for the clarification and searching for the limpieza!
I've uploaded the scans of the documents that detail the ancestry of Alonso de Angulo Montesinos and Catalina de Lila. You can find them here. in Files\Reference Material\Ascendencia de Alonso de Angulo Montesinos
Daniel
Daniel,
Thank you so much! I appreciate it!
Some new side info: Some trees online have Francisco Covarrubias who married Isabel de Rodas related to Gaspar Covarrubias or his relatives in some manner. I have found info to the contrary. See this post:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/18079
Alex
Daniel,
I read the document. Its very good. How were you able ascertain who Geronima Angulo y Figuroa's (m. Clemente Torres) parents are? I'm missing that link.
Also where did you get this from? The Bancroft Library? I see that they probably have this document. I'm interested in the previous page as well
Thanks again
Alex
Hi Alex,
The ancestry of Geronima de Angulo y Figueroa is included in the pages before the scans I gave you. Unfortunately, I can't locate those pages - I'll keep looking. Suffice to say that her parents were indeed Pedro de Figueroa Banuelos and Beatriz de Angulo Montesinos. The scans are copies from documents available in the Bancroft library. They are part of a set of documents related to the Contreras, Angulo, Figueroa, Padilla, Banuelos, Onate, and Flores de la Torre families. They are limpiezas de sangre of various priests from these families.
Daniel
Could anyone tell me who is the child of "dho alferez mayor y de dona mariana del Castillo su primera muger" and are they a male or female?
Left side top https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-W9JF-M?i=311&cat=…
It looks like "Padre Francisco de Ibarra, religioso de la dicha orden (Jesuits)".
Very interesting.... I did find a Francisco Ibarra, son of Francisco Suarez de Ibarra and Maria del Castillo, in DF married to Beatriz Gutierrez de Carriazo in 1634. They were having children from 1635 - 1648.
Here are their marriage documents:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939Z-5BJJ-3?i=650&cc=1615259
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939Z-5BVG-Z?i=366&cc=1615259
The document you have translated from me appears to be dated 1641, smack in the middle of the couple having children. So either Francisco Suarez de Ibarra and Maria del Castillo had two children named Francisco (then Francisco Suarez de Ibarra with his second wife Isabel Pimentel would also have Francisco Suarez de Ibarra el Mozo) or the DF couple could just happen to be a case of parents having identical but unrelated names. Well, back to the drawing board!
Thank you Daniel for uploading these images. They are fantastic!
I still wonder if the Angulo family from Atotonilco, Ayo, and Tepa were related to this family.
There was also a Pedro de Angulo who was the prior of the Agustinian Convent in Ayo in the first half of the 1600's. Maybe he is also related?
Richard
Dear Daniel,
I was just wondering if you have been able to locate the limpieza de sangre documents for Pedro de Figueroa y Banuelos. Or do you happen to have a reference to help you search for them?
Does anyone happen to know if this Pedro de Figueroa y Banuelos was the son of a homonym and Mariana Temino de Banuelos? Or if both Pedros are the same person and he was married before becoming a priest?
Thanks in advance and best regards,
Jorge
While looking for documents regarding my ancestors from Nuevo Leon, I happened to find a document that was written by Cristobal Covarrubias son of Francisco Covarrubias and Maria Bermudez. It is a document that also pertains to the Zaldivar family of Zacatecas.
Here it is:
https://repositorio.tec.mx/handle/11285/630054
I can't read it too well, and I don't think it really gives any more info than we already know, except that I think it states Maria Bermudez died in Zacatecas. I have no idea why Cristobal talks about his family nor why there are declarations from Francisco Covarrubias in a document for the Zaldivars...
Alex
My wife and I both descend from Pedro Joseph Covarrubias. I descend from his first marriage to Maria Manuela Gonzalez Rubio and she descends from his second wife Maria Lizarreras. ( I have seen Maria's surname spelled different ways)
Pedro Joseph is the son of Josef Antonio Covarribias and Ynes Guadalupe Gomez de Mendoza
Josef Antonio Covarrubias is the son of Jose Covarrubias (Junior) and his second wife Leonor Sanchez de Porras on 20/Aug/1725
Leonor is the daughter of Cap.Alejandro Sanchez de Porras and Francisca Alvarez-Tostado de. Luna
Jose Covarrubias (Junior) is the son of Jose Covarrubias (senior) and Leonor Hermosillo (daughter of Pedro Franco de Paredes and Leonor Hermosillo
My brickwall is that I do not have any parents for Jose Covarrubias (senior). I have him b. Circa 1659 and married about 1684 in Jalostotitlan Jalisco, Mexico.
Can anyone help me with Jose Covarrubias's ancestry?
Thanks,
R.A.Ricci
Hey Rick,
I was thumbing through 1656 Zacatecas census and I found a Joseph Covarrubias.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9KY-Z31V?i=155&cat=23…
Figured I'd let you know!
Thank you Alex for the information.
The record also names other people in the household. It names two more Covarrubias, Ysabel and María. There are also Rodas in the same household. I will try to see if I can find a Rodas - Covarrubias connection and see if it can lead to more information.
Thanks again Alex,
Rick
Rick,
There is this one: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Rodas-8
I got Francisco's inquisition record from Huntington Library too
Dear Alex,
The census record that you found also led me to the same information connecting the Rodas to the Covarrubias. I believe that your clue has led to a big discovery as to the ancestry of José Covarrubias.
José Covarrubias is the son of Ysabel Covarrubias and Alonso Perez
Ysabel Covarrubias is the daughter of Francisco Covarrubias and Ysabel De Rodas
So there are at least three reasons that we had trouble finding the ancestry of José Covarrubias. First because his mother is the one with the surname Covarrubias, and his father’s surname is Perez. Second factor that contributed to not finding this out earlier is that Ysabel Covarrubias had three husbands. The third and biggest reason that we had trouble with José Cobarrubias ancestry was that we kept trying to find a connection to Contador Francisco Cobarrubias y Quijada but he did not descend from him.
Thank you very much Alex for this important piece to this puzzle.
Rick A. Ricci
Dear Alex,
You presented evidence that the Francisco Cobarrubias married to Ysabel De Rodas is not the son of Francisco Covarrubias y Quijada + Maria Ramirez Bermudez. So the family tree looks like this:
1. Martin Navarrete (de Covarrubias )and Isabel Hernandez (de Logroño)
2. Francisco Covarrubias married to Ysabel De Rodas (daughter of Francisco Solano Calderon and Francisca Jimenez Altamirano)
3. Ysabel De Covarrubias y Rodas + Alonso Pérez
4. José Cobarrubias
The search now continues as we now search for the ancestors of Martin Navarrete (de Covarrubias )and Isabel Hernandez (de Logroño).
Here is what I found on the internet regarding the trail from Navarrete to Loroño:
Logroño a Navarrete is a 13.8 kilometer moderately trafficked point-to-point trail located near Logroño, La Rioja, Spain that features a lake and is good for all skill levels. The trail is primarily used for hiking, walking, nature trips, and backpacking.
Thanks,
Rick
Thank you for the information. This is interesting.
Do you descend from this family? If so, how?
Luigi or the Genealogist,
I notice you mention a Ibarra family. I have a Catalina Ibarra in my tree that's the daughter of Antonio ibarra and Maria de Escobar. Do you know if your ibarras connect to my Ibarras?
Danny C. Alonso
Danny
What time period and location are we talking for the couple? Early 1600's they would be in Guadalajara to connect to Francisco Suarez de Ibarra and Maria Martinez del Castillo or Isabel Pimentel.
Danny
What time period and location are we talking for the couple? Early 1600's they would be in Guadalajara to connect to Francisco Suarez de Ibarra and Maria Martinez del Castillo or Isabel Pimentel.
Luigi,
it's this couple here:
http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/De_Ibarra-6
theres no dates but looking at everyone and when they probably were married, i guess maybe they were born around the early 1600s or maybe late 1500s, but i'm not sure. theyre mentioned here on sagrada mitra de gualdalajara:
Teocaltiche. Jal. Enero 2 de 1717. Exp 28 - Dispensa de cuarto grado de
afinidad por cópula lícita.- Francisco de Tejeda Villaseñor. español, vecino de
este pueblo, viudo de Doña María Pérez Gallo; con Doña María Morán de Ledesma.
hija legítima de Antonio Morán de Ledesma y de Doña Antonia Ramírez de Rueda.
españoles y vecinos de esta feligresía. Declaración de Alvaro Carrillo, español
de 62 años de edad: Porque Antonio de Ibarra y Catharina de Ibarra, fueron
hermanos, y Antonio de Ibarra fué bisabuelo de Doña María Morán de Ledesma, que
conoció a María de Ibarra, abuela de la dicha y que conoce a Antonio Morán de
Ledesma, padre de la dicha María Morán de Ledesma, y conoció a Catharina de
Arriola, abuela que fué de María Pérez Gallo, e hija que fué de la dicha
Catharina de Ibarra, y que conoció a Angela de Orozco, hija de Catharina de
Arriola y madre que fué de María Pérez Gallo, mujer que fué de Francisco de
Tejeda. Se otorgó la dispensa en la Ciudad de Guadalajara. en 4 de enero de
1717. 10 fojas.
Danny C. Alonso
Sorry Danny I dont have any info on this family.
Rick unfortunately I'm brickwalled right where you are Re. Joseph Covarrubias.
If this thread is still active, I have some information on these families.
I am very interested!
245luigi,
Let me start by saying that I think you are definitely on the right track here. I agree with all of your conclusions thus far. My notes on the Colio family may be of interest to you since they overlap nicely with your research.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have extracted the following information from “Diccionario Biografico del Occidente Novohispano”:
Pedro Diaz del Palmar married Juana Hernandez de Gangas. They were the parents of the Conquistador Diego de Colio, el Viejo (born abt. 1500, Cabrales, Asturias de Oviedo – died aft. 1579). Diego’s positions included: being Encomendero de Ixcatlan “con sus estancias de Guautla y Cocoitlan, jurisdiccion de Copala”; being Alcalde Ordinario de primer voto del Cabildo de Guadalajara y del Cabildo de Compostela; and being Corregidor de los Pueblos de Acatlan, Pixtla, Cuyutlan, Zalatitlan, y Iguala.
Diego de Colio, el Viejo married (abt. 1535) to Catalina de la Torre (daughter of Lic. Diego Perez de la Torre). (Catalina de la Torre also had been previously married to the Conquistador Joan Bernal.) Diego de Colio, el Viejo and Catalina de la Torre had the following children:
1. Dona Maria de Colio y de la Torre (I) ( - died aft. 1579) who married twice. First she married Antono de Aguiar y Saavedra. They had Diego de Aguiar. Maria married second (abt. 1563) Juan Guerra (born est. 1540 – died aft 1589). Juan Guerra’s positions included: being Alcalde Mayor de Guachinango; being Regidor del Cabildo de Guadalajara; and being Corregidor de Nochistlanejo.
Maria de Colio y de la Torre (I) and Juan Guerra had:
i.
Dona Maria de Colio y de la Torre (II) ( - died aft. 1617) who married (abt. 1592) Francisco de Covarrubias y Leyva (born abt. 1543 – died aft. 4 May 1599). They had Dona Tomasina de Covarrubias and Dona Maria de Colio y de la Torre (III) who married Capitan Don Diego de Avila Moscoso.
ii.
Francisco Guerra de Colio ( - died aft. 1591) who married Dona Catalina de Berrios. They had Dona Antonia Guerra de Colio who married twice: first (abt. 1620) to Don Juan Gonzalez de Apodacia Rubin, Regidor Perpetuo de Guadalajara ( - died 26 Jul 1629), and second, to her first husband’s uncle, Celedonio Gonzalez de Apodaca ( - died aft. 1660).
iii.
Don Hernan Guerra de Colio ( - died aft. 5 Mar 1589)
Children of Diego de Colio, el Viejo and Catalina de la Torre continued:
2. Dona Francisca de Colio y de la Torre
3. Dona Teresa de Colio y de la Torre
4. Diego Garcia de Colio, el Mezo
5. Pedro Gomez de Colio, Arcediano de Guadalajara
6. “y otro hijo fallecio joven en Guadalajara”
You will note that some of these “new” individuals do appear in the [(Capellanias 1649-1851) Capellanias for Pedro Gomez de Colio] even though there relation might not be mapped out, per se.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some other notes:
There is a Gaspar de Colio ( - died aft.1606) who was either the natural son of Diego de Colio, el Viejo, or the adopted child of Diego Garcia de Colio, el Mezo, or both.
Diego Garcia de Colio, el Mezo’s wife is not mentioned in “Diccionario Biografico del Occidente Novohispano” but she may be the daughter, niece, or some other relation of Francisco Ramirez de Alarcon, Oidor, Alcalde Mayor de la Real Audiencia (b. 1521 - d. 1578? or Jan 1581?) who "en 1562 hizo un arreglo con Diego de Colio". Francisco Ramirez de Alarcon was married to Dona Leonor Varaona and they had Andres Ramirez de Alarcon.
As for the confusion of mothers for Elena de Vargas among her later descendants in
[(Capellanias 1649-1851) Capellanias for Pedro Gomez de Colio], I would propose that perhaps Capitan Melchor Vargas Machuca was married twice: at one time to Juana de Colio (daughter of Diego Garcia de Colio, el Mezo, and Ines Ramirez de Alarcon), and at another time to Mariana de Colio (daughter of Francisco de Covarrubias y Leyva and Dona Maria de Colio y de la Torre (II)). This might account for Nicolas de Ibarra’s confusion as to who was his natural grandmother and who was his step-grandmother. Elena must be the daughter of Mariana, and Mariana the daughter of Francisco, which would account for the “Covarrubias” that they sometimes used. Mariana should not be confused with Dona Maria de Colio y de la Torre (III) who was married to Capitan Don Diego de Avila Moscoso.
There is an Esteban de Covarrubias y Colio, son of a Francisco de Covarrubias and a Maria de Colio baptized 11 Apr 1619 in Guadalajara. They are not the same couple we have been talking about since Esteban is described as being the black son of Francisco de Covarubias (a slave of Melchor de Vargas) and his wife Maria de Colio (a Mutlata). Melchor Vargas must have acquired these slaves through his wife Mariana de Colio de Covarrubias who were likewise named after her white Spanish parents Francisco de Covarrubias and Maria de Colio.
According to “Diccionario Biografico del Occidente Novohispano” Don Francisco de Covarrubias y Leyva seems to still be alive as of 4 May 1599. The baptism of his daughter Aphonsa in Guadalajara 6 Sep 1600 states that Francisco was dead at this point. This allows us to assume that Don Francisco de Covarrubias y Leyva died between 4 May 1599 and 6 Sep 1600.
As for the relation between Francisco de Covarrubias y Leiva and Diego de Covarrubias y Leiva, Obispo de Segovia, “Diccionario Biografico del Occidente Novohispano” describes Francisco as "Deudo de Don Diego de Covarrubias y Leiva, Obispo de Segovia, presidente del consejo Real de Castilla.” Outside of this, I have not spotted any primary sources that describe their relation more specifically than “deudo”. I have seen trees posted where it is assumed that Francisco de Covarrubias’ father Gaspar is a brother to Diego, thus making Diego the uncle of Francisco. However, I am not so sure of this. One would think that if they were this closely related, than Diego and Francisco would have been described more specifically as “sobrino” or “tio” somewhere as opposed to the more general “deudo”. With the “Leiva” being in Francisco de Covarrubias’ name, we may only be able to assume that his father Gaspar may have been a grandchild in some way to Sebastian Martinez de Covarrubias and Maria Gutierrez de Leyva, who were also the grandparents of Diego de Covarrubias y Leyva. This would make Francisco and Diego cousins once removed, which might account for the term “duedo.”
However, I would also like to point out that another cousin once removed of Diego’s was Sebastian de Covarrubias y Orozco. Several of Sebastian’s published books are dedicated to the “memoria del Presidante Don Diego de Covarrubias y Leyva su tio.” Sebastian (or maybe his publishers) used “su tio” even though Diego was really his cousin once removed.
This leads to
The big question:
1. Has anyone seen an original document that specifically describes the relation between Francisco de Covarrubias and the famous bishop Diego de Covarrubias?
I hope there are records out there that can clarify this.
Some other questions:
2. Who is Bernardina de Colio (wife of Rodrigo Gomez Parada) the daughter of?
3. I am assuming that Aldonza de Covarrubias and Agustin de Covarrubias are the children of Francisco de Covarrubias and Maria de Colio y de la Torre (II). Do you agree?
4. Are Aldonza de Covarrubias and Alphonza de Covarrubias the same person?
5. What is the name of Agustin de Covarrubias’ wife?
Thank you very much for your elaborate comment.
I have seen much of the information you have supplied repeated on the internet. I have been searching for primary source documents but have come up with very little.
I am very interested in the ancestry of Juan Guerra, but again have found no documents in my search.
Interesting proposition regarding Melchor Vargas Machuca's possible marriages. Here is a timeline:
1617, Melchor and Mariana are already married as Pedro Vargas Machuca is baptized in Guadalajara on 6 May 1617.
1634, Maria, daughter of Melchor Vargas and Mariana Covarrubias is confirmed (maybe this is Elena??). (Right, middle https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19623-26415-38?cc=1874591)
1646, Mariana Covarrubias y Colio passes away, legitimate wife of Captain Melchor de Vargas. Son Pedro is mentioned in the record and husband is alive (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18380-1340-31?cc=1874591). Will was written in front of Hernando Enriquez. I checked his protocolos and didn't find it.
So its safe to say Melchor and Mariana were married at least from 1617 - 1646. Elena's first confirmed child was born 1655 and last in 1675. Therefore if she came from a different wife of Melchor's then it had to have been prior to the marriage with Mariana, as from a later marriage she would have been 9 for the first child's birth! The youngest age range for the births in she came from an earlier marriage then would have been 39 - 59. It is possible that Elena could have came from Juana but I think unlikely. The Maria confirmed in 1634 does fit Elena quite nicely!
A more interesting (what I believe to be) erroneous declaration was Diego Herrera's that he was the grandson of Maria de Colio. His mothers name was Catalina Colio Alarcon which lines up much better with him being the grandson of Diego de Colio el Mozo and Ines Ramirez de Alarcon.
I have narrowed Francisco Covarrubias' death even further to Jan 1600 - Sept 1600. Francisco appears as a padrino in a baptism on 13 January 1600 (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18621-67276-29?cc=1874591) and is deceased by the time Alfonza is baptized 6 September 1600 (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18621-67528-30?cc=1874591).
I think Maria de Colio, wife of the Contador, may have died in 1620. Search for Maria Colio in Pares and look at the description of "Pleitos de la Audiencia de Guadalajara", Archivo General de Indias ESCRIBANIA, 380A "Bartolomé de la Canal de Lamadrid, oidor de la Audiencia de Guadalajara, con María de Colio, vecina de Guadalajara, sobre paga de los pesos que gastó en reparos que hizo en una casa de dicha María. Fenecido en 1620"
What you say about Francisco Covarrubias y Leyva is spot on to what I'm finding as well. The term "deudo" is found several times in Informaciones: Francisco de Covarrubias. I also have "Diccionario Biografico del Occidente Novohispano" The entry for Layva y Covarrubias, Don Diego de states "Tio (algunas fuentes menos confiables dicen que primo) de Francisco Covarrubias, contador de...." Source being (Fernandez, 2003: 280) I do not know what this source is.
Speculation ahead! We know from Informaciones that Gaspar Covarrubias was born in Covarrubias Spain. Diego Covarrubias y Leyva was born in Toledo according to Wikipedia. Diego's father Alonso was also born in Toledo according to Wikipedia. Other websites place his birth in Covarrubias. Alonso was born in Covarrubias, perhaps Gaspars father and Alonso were brothers. That would make Francisco and Diego, 1st cousins once removed as you said. Again speculation. Gaspar and Margarita were married in Granada. Perhaps a marriage record exists.
Regarding your questions, I wish I had better answers!
1. I have not seen a document other than Informacions using the word "deudo". See images 31, 82, 87, 103, 113, and 124. Was Diego mentioned in the Capellanias?
2. I have no idea, the capellanias are the only mention of her name. Perhaps more info can be uncovered in the original will.
3. I am not positive about Agustins descendancy. There are so many inconsistencies, who knows what is right. Someone much better at Spanish than me should look at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18381-35281-40?cc=1874591 and the next image. I think Agustin may have supplied the info (I am not sure) but it looks like he is the brother of Alfonza and Diego and son of Francisco and Maria de Colio. Assuming its true, I agree.
4. Yes because Aldonza and Alphonza are used to describe the daughter of Francisco and Maria.
5. I unfortunately don't know.
I forgot to add I found an additional daughter of Francisco and Maria.
Luisa Covarrubias Guerra and Mariana de Colio, su hermana were madrinas in the baptism on 13 August 1608
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18621-66799-25?cc=1874591
I went through all of the documents that were left to go through and no additional info was found. Hernan Guerra de Colio does not mention who his parents are. Infomaciones for Francisco Covarrubias repeats the same info probably 20 times by each witness. It does include info as to where is parents are from but I don't understand it well. Also nothing new in the capellania for Francisco Covarrubias. Images 143 - 179 appear to be a capellania pertaining to Mateo de Pedrosa son of Marcos Pedrosa and Maria de Nava but there is nothing pertaining to the lineages I was discussing in the thread
Informaciones: Francisco Covarrubias pages 31 and 82 stated Francisco is a relative of Diego de Covarrubias y Leyva, Obispo de Segovia https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_de_Covarrubias
Diego Covarrubias y Leyva Egas and Gaspar Covarrubias y Leyva Egas are brothers I just posted some of my research on the Covarrubias family under the thread on Toribio Hernandez Arellanos genealogy
R.A.Ricci
Dear David and Alex,
i was hoping to share and discuss my research on the Covarrubias ancestry in person. Are either of you planning on being anywhere near Los Angeles California this summer? Please send me your emails.
Rick A. Ricci
Hola, I'm researching my Martin del Campo ancestors in Tateposco, Jalisco. I need help locating an apparently misfiled Cuquio baptismal book, "Libro 12" file, at familysearch.
GENEALOGIAS DE NOCHISTLAN ANTIGUO REINO DE LA NUEVA GALICIA...esta disponible en Borderlands Bookstore, San Antonio, Texas.
Hi Jose and those on this post...
Please note I've returned to the genealogy front. I still have Jose's book and am available for lookups should you need information.
Please note my new email address...after many more life changes ;-)....
Connie (Consuelo) Dominguez
Does anyone have this book that would be willing to copy some sections, will pay copy costs?
I need sections 43, 67, and 75.
The book is longer available for sale.
Thanks
LDS Church in Utah has a copy, last year I emailed them through their website and they sent me a link to the pages I requested(Duran Family). The link woks for a limited time so save a copy in PDF form to your computer.
Good Luck
Ruben
Sorry, I just saw this posting. I have this book and I can scan and send you the pages you need if you don't already have them. You can send me your email address to allieavelar@gmail.com and I will scan and send them.
Alicia,
San Jose, Calif
To rick rodriguez
I suppose that you want the book to trace your rodriguez de hijar line. My pending book has his information plus more on this line. I Also have more info on the maternal lines like the bracamonte line that is connected to it. The maternAl lines actually have many many interesting stories. I want to add as many of these interesting, supposedly true, stories. I am triple checking the accuracy of all the stories.
His book is a great book that I loved reading.
If you don't get a copy of this book don't worry since I will provide you a rough draft of my book next year
rick
------Original Message------
From: Susan and Joe Cadena
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogias de Nochistlan...
Sent: Nov 3, 2009 8:16 PM
Just to update any others interested - I contacted Borderlands Bookstore
after reading the message from José. I received a response from George
Farias that he carried the book about 10 years ago but it is out of print
and no longer available from him.
Guess we'll just have to keep looking.....
Susan Cadena
-----Original Message-----
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of JOSE AGUAYO
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 4:38 PM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogias de Nochistlan...
Ricardo:
GENEALOGIAS DE NOCHISTLAN ANTIGUO REINO DE LA NUEVA GALICIA...esta
disponible en Borderlands Bookstore, San Antonio, Texas. El sitio de web de
la tienda es www.borderlandsbooks.com. El
numero de telefono es 210-647-7535.
Thanks to everyone for replying to my message. I've done some research on my
Rodriguez line and I wanted to verify my work with someone else's. If my
research is correct, I descend from the following:
Rodrigo Frias de Albornoz y Lovado
Hernando de Frías
Juan Rodriguez de Frías
Bernabe Rodriguez de Frías y Amaya
Nicolas Rodriguez de Frías y de Íñiguez
Bernabe Rodriguez de Frías y de Hijar
Nicolas Rodriguez de Frías y de Torres
Miguel Geronimo Rodriguez de Frías y de Valdivia
Secundino Nepomuceno Rodriguez Vazquez
Jose Jesus Rodriguez Alvarez
Jose de los Reyes Rodriguez Martin
Genaro Rodriguez Hernandez
Francisco Rodriguez Hernandez
Jose Marcos Rodriguez Valdivia (my grandfather)
(I apologize, I didn't get your name) please let me know if
you have any discrepancies in your notes. I have more info all the way back
to the late 1100's, don't know if this is on your future book, it most
likely is. Let me know if you're interested in including this and more info
that I have in your book, I can forward my notes to you.
Thanks again,
Rick Rodriguez
Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco
Mi linea de Rodríguez es como sigue:
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Mis padres.
Mis abuelos.
Francisco Domínguez Ibarra.
José Domínguez Rodríguez.
Luisa Rodríguez Ochoa.
José Hermenegildo Rodríguez Estrada.
José Rafael Rodríguez Orozco.
José Francisco Rodríguez Cornejo.
Fabián Rodríguez Valdivia.
Nicolás Rodríguez de Frías.
Bernabé Rodríguez de Frías.
Nicolás Rodríguez de Frías.
Bernabé Rodríguez de Frías.
Juan Rodríguez de Frías.
Hernando de Frías.
Rodrigo de Frías.
Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
Otto te muestra IE8
www.otto.com.mx
La biblioteca que uso tiene mas de seis meses cerrado. ya tengo la fecha del matrimonio de jose rafael rodriguez con luisa estrada pero tuviera que manejar lejos para ver la acta.
me podrias dar por favor la informacion sobre los padres y abuelos de luisa estrada. yo desciendo de un hermano de luisa rodriguez ochoa, evaristo rodriguez ochoa, mi tatarabuelo. el era abuelo materno de mi abuela Lucila De la torre Rodriguez. Evaristo tuvo tres matrimonios. Una hermana de evaristo se caso con un pedro dominguez. Mi abuela tuvo medios hermanas que tuvieron contacto con los primos dominguez rodriguez y conocen una rama que se vino a estados unidos. hace dos anos que una tia me dio esta informacion. una semana despues ella murio. no se si estos son tus mismos dominguez rodriguez.
te lo agradezco mucho. Gracias
R.A.Ricci
No se a quien va dirigido el mensaje pero yo tengo esa información, así que decidí enviárte lo que tengo. María Luisa Estrada es hija de José Rafael Estrada y María Dolores Gómez, y casó con José Rafael Rodríguez Orozco, hijo de José Francisco Rodríguez y Ana Basilia Orozco.
Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
Descubre Windows 7
http://www.windows.com.mx
Me puedes mandar los esposos por favor para comparar lo que yo tengo. Yo tengo a luisa con dos nombres y me gustaria aclarar si es la misma persona. Gracias ricardo
------Original Message------
From: Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: Nuestros Ranchos
ReplyTo: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogias de Nochistlan...
Sent: Nov 5, 2009 12:33 PM
Mi linea de Rodríguez es como sigue:
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Mis padres.
Mis abuelos.
Francisco Domínguez Ibarra.
José Domínguez Rodríguez.
Luisa Rodríguez Ochoa.
José Hermenegildo Rodríguez Estrada.
José Rafael Rodríguez Orozco.
José Francisco Rodríguez Cornejo.
Fabián Rodríguez Valdivia.
Nicolás Rodríguez de Frías.
Bernabé Rodríguez de Frías.
Nicolás Rodríguez de Frías.
Bernabé Rodríguez de Frías.
Juan Rodríguez de Frías.
Hernando de Frías.
Rodrigo de Frías.
Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
Otto te muestra IE8
www.otto.com.mx
Yo tengo a jose evaristo dominguez. Es jose Evaristo el mismo hombre que jose?
------Original Message------
From: Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: Nuestros Ranchos
ReplyTo: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogias de Nochistlan...
Sent: Nov 5, 2009 12:33 PM
Mi linea de Rodríguez es como sigue:
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Mis padres.
Mis abuelos.
Francisco Domínguez Ibarra.
José Domínguez Rodríguez.
Luisa Rodríguez Ochoa.
José Hermenegildo Rodríguez Estrada.
José Rafael Rodríguez Orozco.
José Francisco Rodríguez Cornejo.
Fabián Rodríguez Valdivia.
Nicolás Rodríguez de Frías.
Bernabé Rodríguez de Frías.
Nicolás Rodríguez de Frías.
Bernabé Rodríguez de Frías.
Juan Rodríguez de Frías.
Hernando de Frías.
Rodrigo de Frías.
Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
Otto te muestra IE8
www.otto.com.mx
Yo desciendo del hermano de luisa rodriguez ochoa.
Ricardo
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 23:43:50
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogias de Nochistlan...
Yo tengo a jose evaristo dominguez. Es jose Evaristo el mismo hombre que jose?
------Original Message------
From: Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: Nuestros Ranchos
ReplyTo: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogias de Nochistlan...
Sent: Nov 5, 2009 12:33 PM
Mi linea de Rodríguez es como sigue:
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Mis padres.
Mis abuelos.
Francisco Domínguez Ibarra.
José Domínguez Rodríguez.
Luisa Rodríguez Ochoa.
José Hermenegildo Rodríguez Estrada.
José Rafael Rodríguez Orozco.
José Francisco Rodríguez Cornejo.
Fabián Rodríguez Valdivia.
Nicolás Rodríguez de Frías.
Bernabé Rodríguez de Frías.
Nicolás Rodríguez de Frías.
Bernabé Rodríguez de Frías.
Juan Rodríguez de Frías.
Hernando de Frías.
Rodrigo de Frías.
Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
Otto te muestra IE8
www.otto.com.mx
No es el mismo José, el José del que yo hablo no encuentro su acta de bautizmo que debió ser en 1877 aprox.. El José Evaristo Domínguez Rodríguez que mencionas es primo hermano de mi ancestro.
Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
_________________________________________________________________
¿Sabes que están haciendo tus amigos en Internet?
www.messengernews.com.mx
Just to update any others interested - I contacted Borderlands Bookstore
after reading the message from José. I received a response from George
Farias that he carried the book about 10 years ago but it is out of print
and no longer available from him.
Guess we'll just have to keep looking.....
Susan Cadena
-----Original Message-----
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of JOSE AGUAYO
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 4:38 PM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogias de Nochistlan...
Ricardo:
GENEALOGIAS DE NOCHISTLAN ANTIGUO REINO DE LA NUEVA GALICIA...esta
disponible en Borderlands Bookstore, San Antonio, Texas. El sitio de web de
la tienda es www.borderlandsbooks.com. El
numero de telefono es 210-647-7535.
I wish I could help but my copy is in three pieces - from overuse. Spectacular resource. Try large libraries. Some may have it available as a reference source:
"Genealogia de Nochistlan, Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII segun sus Archivos Parroquiales."
Author is Jose Luis Vazquez y Rodriguez de Frias. This was privately printed in 2001, with more than 400 pages, and thousands of surnames in the index, and "data from Jalostitlan, Lagos de Moreno, Aguascalientes, Guadalajara, Teocaltiche, Tepatitlan, San Luis Potosi, Michoacan and more."
Genealogía de Nochistlán Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia
en el Siglo XVII según sus Archivos Parroquiales by
José Luis Vázquez y Rodríguez de Frías
100 Chapters, 500 pages, 6500+ name Index, 40 trees, 50 signatures, baptisms, confirmations, marriages, wills, dispensations, statistics, deaths, padrinos, testigos, dates, half of book in paleography of the original documents, 5 years of research, a MUST for the genealogist who wants to go into the XVII century in the Nochistlán Area (Jalos, Tepa, Aguscalientes, Mesticacan, etc.) Based on the census of 1649 and 1664 published for the first time (the originals have been "misplaced" at the Sagrada M itra). With the collaboration of top genealogists Mary Lou Montagna, José Alfonso Rodríguez de Carbajal (historiador de Mesticacán), Consuelo Domínguez, and others (+). Only 300 copies to be printed in the first edition. Tentative price $50.00 plus 5.00 shipping in the US and Méjico.
Reserve your copy or put yourself on the list. Complete this form and send to Connie Domínguez connied@elp.rr.com or Mary Lou Montagna montagnajml@worldnet.att.net or call him at 011 52 1 615 3924 in Juárez, Méjico.
Lista de Pobladores del Valle de Nochistlán según los Padrones de 1649 y 1664
y demás Información Tratados en Capítulos en esta Obra.
Capítulo 1 Descendencia de Mari Gómez española viuda de Miguel Rodríguez
Capítulo 2 Descendencia de Juan Ximón Durán y Regina de Aguayo
Capítulo 3 Descendencia de Diego de Aguayo e Ysabel Beatris de Vergara Arzaga
Capítulo 4 Descendencia de Diego de Salazar y Melchora de los Reyes
Capítulo 5 Descendencia de Catalina Cortés viuda de Juan de Moscoso y Sandobal el Viejo
Capítulo 6 Descendencia de Diego de Moscoso Sandoval y María Delgadillo o Rodríguez de Carvajal
Capítulo 7 Descendencia de Juan Lozano y Josepha Vázquez de Sandobal
Capítulo 8 Descendencia de Diego González de Isla y Cecilia Vázquez o de Sandoval
Capítulo 9 Descendencia de Antonio de Belasco y Beatriz de Amaya
Capítulo 10 Descendencia de Gerónimo de Aránbulo
Capítulo 11 Descendencia de Juan Méndez de Ávila y María Rodríguez de la Mora
Capítulo 12 Descendencia de Juan de Rentería e Ysabel de Calderón Orozco
Capítulo 13 Descendencia de Juan Delgadillo y María de la Concepción de Islas
Capítulo 14 Descendencia de Pedro Martín y Juana González
Capítulo 15 Descendencia de Juan Rodríguez de Frías y Jertrudis de Amaya
Capítulo 16 Descendencia de Melchora de los Reyes Rodríguez de Carbajal viuda de Luis Delgadillo
Capítulo 17 Descendencia de Juan Diego de Morones e Ysabel de Bellocillo o Delgadillo
Capítulo 18 Descendencia de Juan Yáñez del Monte y María de Medinilla
Capítulo 19 Descendencia de Gerónimo González de Aramburu y Elvira de Carabajal
Capítulo 20 Descendencia de Juan de Estrada y Catalina Rodríguez de la Mora
Capítulo 21 Descendencia de Juan de Chávez Salguero y Francisca de Siordia
Capítulo 22 Descendencia de Gerónima de Benavides viuda de Francisco de Páez
Capítulo 23 Descendencia de Juana de Lomelín viuda de Rodrigo de Carbajal y Ullóa
Capítulo 24 Descendencia de María de Benavides vi uda de Carlos Lomellini
Capítulo 25 Descendencia de Diego Hernández y Mariana Ýñiguez
Capítulo 26 Descendencia de Juan de Carbajal y Ullóa y Jacinta de Oliva
Capítulo 27 Descendencia de Lorenzo Yáñez y María Rodríguez de la Mora
Capítulo 28 Descendencia de Domingo de Lomelín y Juana de Mendoza
Capítulo 29 Descendencia de Lucas de Lomelín y Antonia Mazías
Capítulo 30 Descendencia de Lorenzo Mexía viudo de Inés de Estrada
Capítulo 31 Descendencia de Martín López y Elvira de Carvajal
Capítulo 32 Descendencia de Francisco Básques y Andrea Cortés
Capítulo 33 Descendencia de Bernardo de Ysla y María o Mariana Catharina de Sandoval
Capítulo 34 Descendencia de Luis Delgadillo el mozo y Cata de Yslas
Capítulo 35 Descendencia de Nicolás Mexía y Elvira de Yslas
Capítulo 36 Descendencia de Matheo de Rubalcava y Ana de Yslas
Capítulo 37 Descendencia de Juo de Estrada y Juana de Siordia
Capítulo 38 Descendencia de Nicolás Rodríguez (de Frías e Ýñiguez) y Antonia de Híjar y Mesa
Capítulo 39 Descendencia de Sebastián Ýñiguez y María de Messa
Capítulo 40 Descendencia de Nicolás Íñigues y María de Ullóa
Capítulo 41 Descendencia de Nicolás Carrillo y Agustina Ximénez
Capítulo 42 Descendencia de Matheo Pérez de Frías y Thomasa de la Cruz
Capítulo 43 Des cendencia de Lorenzo de Rubalcava y Catalina González
Capítulo 44 Descendencia de Juan de Aguayo y Catalina de la Cruz o de Salas
Capítulo 45 Descendencia de Juo de Sandoval y Madalena Gonsález
Capítulo 46 Descendencia de Diego de Aguayo el viejo e Ysabel de Silva
Capítulo 47 Descendencia de Alonso Martín Bermejo e Isabel Pérez de Gardéa
Capítulo 48 Descendencia de Juan de la Cruz Bermejo y Andrea González de la Besares
Capítulo 49 Descendencia del Capitán Juan Lozano e Inés Martínez
Capítulo 50 Descendencia de Pedro Hernández y de Antonia Delgadillo
Capítulo 51 Descendencia de Esteban de Tejeda y Luisa Delgadillo o Bellocillo
Capítulo 52 Descendencia de Antonio de Aguayo y Luisa de Islas
Capítulo 53 Descendencia de Benito o Bernardino de Ysla y Magdalena de la Besares
Capítulo 54 Descendencia de Juan Rodríguez de la Mora e Ysabel Delgadillo
Capítulo 55 Descendencia de Juan de la Cruz y María de Gabáy
Capítulo 56 Descendencia de Nicolás de Venavides y Ana de Santiago o Pérez o González
Capítulo 57 Descendencia de Diego de Benavides y Juana Delgadillo
Capítulo 58 Descendencia de Martín Navarro y Petronila de Moctezuma
Capítulo 59 Descendencia de Descendencia de Jerónimo de Benavides y Catalina Cortés
Capítulo 60 Descendencia de Pedro Cortés Natural de los Reinos de Castilla
Capítulo 61 Descendencia de Andrés d e Cuevas y María de Benavides
Capítulo 62 Descendencia de Diego Sánchez Carranza y Ana Muñoz
Capítulo 63 Descendencia de Juan de Sepúlveda el Viejo y Magda Rodríguez o López
Capítulo 64 Ascendencia de Doña Antonia de Híjar y Mesa
Capítulo 65 Descendencia de Nicolás de Navarrete y Argote y Beatriz de Villegas Barrientos o Bracamonte
Capítulo 66 Descendencia de Bernardo González Domínguez y María Florençia Yáñez
Capítulo 67 Descendencia de Antonio Ýñiguez y Jacinta de Cuevas
Capítulo 68 Descendencia de Pedro González y María de Frías
Capítulo 69 Descendencia de Matheo de Rubalcava y Cecilia Vázquez de Isla
Capítulo 70 Descendencia de Gonzalo Yáñez del Monte y Gerónima de Benavides
Capítulo 71 Descendencia de Juan del Castillo e Ysabel de Rojas
Capítulo 72 Descendencia del Capitán Don Diego de las Marinas y Luisa de Aguayo
Capítulo 73 Descendencia de Luis de Medina Baldivia y María de Siordia
Capítulo 74 Descendencia de Diego Ximénez y Catarina de Arellano
Capítulo 75 Descendencia de Juan Ýñiguez y Andrea Cortés
Capítulo 76 Descendencia de Miguel Rodríguez de Cuevas
Capítulo 77 Descendencia de Francisco González Martínez y Magdalena de la Besares
Capítulo 78 Rodrigo de Frías Conquistador de Cíbola
Capítulo 79 Descendencia de Hernando de Frías
Capítulo 80 Los Pérez de Frías o Pérez Burgeño o Pérez Espinoza de Santa María de los Lagos a Principios del Siglo XVII - Descendencia de Juan Pérez de Frías y María López de Elizalde
Capítulo 81 Descendencia de Juan López de Elizalde y Aberruza y de Leonor Becerra y Sánchez de Mendoza
Capítulo 82 Descendencia de Juan Pérez de Frías y Ana o María López
Capítulo 83 Descendencia de Sebastián Pérez de Frías y la India de Tlaltenango Magdalena de Bobadilla
Capítulo 84 Descendencia de Diego Morán y Luisa Delgadillo
Capítulo 85 Descendencia de Ysidro de Araujo Guerrero y Beatriz Burgeño Pérez o López
Capítulo 86 Descendencia de Juan Rodríguez de Carbajal y Josepha de Frías o Delgadillo
Capítulo 87 Sumario de los Juan Pérez de Frías
Capítulo 88 Los Frías de Tlaltenango
Capítulo 89 Los Frías de Zacatecas
Capítulo 90 Descendencia de Nicolás Rodríguez de Frías y Torres y de Phelipa de Santiago Valdivia
Capítulo 91 Descendencia de Joséf Cristóbal Rodríguez de Frías y Valdivia y María Juana Gertrudis Martín
Capítulo 92 Descendencia de Juan Joséf María Rodríguez de Frías y María Manuela Gertrudis de
Anda
Capítulo 93 Descendencia de Jossé Guadalupe Rodríguez de Frías e Ysabel de los Dolores
Casillas y Cabrera
Capítulo 94 Descendencia de José Feliciano Rodríguez de Frías y María Marcelina Gallo Romo
de Vivar
Capítulo 95 Descendencia de Cristóbal Rodríguez de Frías y María Sostenes Limón López
Capítulo 96 Descendencia de Anastasio F Rodríguez de Frías y Fortunata Contreras
Capítulo 97 Descendencia de Miguel Pedro Rodríguez de Frías y María Asunción Gallardo
Capítulo 98 Descendencia de Prisciliano Rodríguez de Frías y Emerenciana Guajardo
Capítulo 99 Descendencia de Ramón Rodríguez de Frías y Delfina Franco
Capítulo 100 Ascendencia de Arturo Vázquez y León
Apéndice 1 Lista de Registros Parroquiales en Microfilm por la Academia de Genealogía y Heráldica Mejicana y la Iglesia de los Santos de los Últimos Días Utilizados en Esta Obra
Apéndice 2 Padrón del partido de Nochistlán y sus subjetos, estansias, pobladores y Ranchos Fho en 20 de Septiembre de 1649
Apéndice 3 Padrón de las personas de Confessión y Comon de este partido de Nochistlán deste año de 1664
Apéndice 4 Extractos del Segundo Ynterrogatorio General para La Bissita deste Reyno que sale el Señor Licenciado don Juo Dávalos y toledo del cono del Rey Nto Sor Oydor de la Rl Audia de Guadalajara
Apéndice 5 Lista Parcial de Alcaldes y Tenientes de Alcalde de la Jurisdicción de Nochistlán y Lares Cercanos
Índice de Figuras, Figuras, Firmas
-----Original Message-----
From: Susan and Joe Cadena
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tue, Nov 3, 2009 8:16 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogias de Nochistlan...
Just to update any others interested - I contacted Borderlands Bookstore
fter reading the message from José. I received a response from George
arias that he carried the book about 10 years ago but it is out of print
nd no longer available from him.
uess we'll just have to keep looking.....
Susan Cadena
-----Original Message-----
rom: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of JOSE AGUAYO
ent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 4:38 PM
o: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ubject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogias de Nochistlan...
Ricardo:
ENEALOGIAS DE NOCHISTLAN ANTIGUO REINO DE LA NUEVA GALICIA...esta
isponible en Borderlands Bookstore, San Antonio, Texas. El sitio de web de
a tienda es www.borderlandsbooks.com. El
umero de telefono es 210-647-7535.
Hi Johnny/All,
I'm glad to see the great amounts of work Jose put into his book are truly appreciated. I worked with him for several years and knew him well...and he would have loved that his book was useful to so many.
I do have the book...and my part of the research I did for him. If you need a lookup (I know it's not the same as having the book), I would be happy to provide the info.
Please note my new email address.....I've been out of touch for a few years due to many life changes.
Thanks again!
Connie Dominguez
--
Connie Dominguez, MPA
12301 Amstater Circle
El Paso, TX 79936
915-799-6036
cdominguez10@elp.rr.com
---- johnnypj@aol.com wrote:
=============
I wish I could help but my copy is in three pieces - from overuse. Spectacular resource. Try large libraries. Some may have it available as a reference source:
"Genealogia de Nochistlan, Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII segun sus Archivos Parroquiales."
Author is Jose Luis Vazquez y Rodriguez de Frias. This was privately printed in 2001, with more than 400 pages, and thousands of surnames in the index, and "data from Jalostitlan, Lagos de Moreno, Aguascalientes, Guadalajara, Teocaltiche, Tepatitlan, San Luis Potosi, Michoacan and more."
Genealogía de Nochistlán Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia
en el Siglo XVII según sus Archivos Parroquiales by
José Luis Vázquez y Rodríguez de Frías
100 Chapters, 500 pages, 6500+ name Index, 40 trees, 50 signatures, baptisms, confirmations, marriages, wills, dispensations, statistics, deaths, padrinos, testigos, dates, half of book in paleography of the original documents, 5 years of research, a MUST for the genealogist who wants to go into the XVII century in the Nochistlán Area (Jalos, Tepa, Aguscalientes, Mesticacan, etc.) Based on the census of 1649 and 1664 published for the first time (the originals have been "misplaced" at the Sagrada M itra). With the collaboration of top genealogists Mary Lou Montagna, José Alfonso Rodríguez de Carbajal (historiador de Mesticacán), Consuelo Domínguez, and others (+). Only 300 copies to be printed in the first edition. Tentative price $50.00 plus 5.00 shipping in the US and Méjico.
Reserve your copy or put yourself on the list. Complete this form and send to Connie Domínguez connied@elp.rr.com or Mary Lou Montagna montagnajml@worldnet.att.net or call him at 011 52 1 615 3924 in Juárez, Méjico.
Lista de Pobladores del Valle de Nochistlán según los Padrones de 1649 y 1664
y demás Información Tratados en Capítulos en esta Obra.
Capítulo 1 Descendencia de Mari Gómez española viuda de Miguel Rodríguez
Capítulo 2 Descendencia de Juan Ximón Durán y Regina de Aguayo
Capítulo 3 Descendencia de Diego de Aguayo e Ysabel Beatris de Vergara Arzaga
Capítulo 4 Descendencia de Diego de Salazar y Melchora de los Reyes
Capítulo 5 Descendencia de Catalina Cortés viuda de Juan de Moscoso y Sandobal el Viejo
Capítulo 6 Descendencia de Diego de Moscoso Sandoval y María Delgadillo o Rodríguez de Carvajal
Capítulo 7 Descendencia de Juan Lozano y Josepha Vázquez de Sandobal
Capítulo 8 Descendencia de Diego González de Isla y Cecilia Vázquez o de Sandoval
Capítulo 9 Descendencia de Antonio de Belasco y Beatriz de Amaya
Capítulo 10 Descendencia de Gerónimo de Aránbulo
Capítulo 11 Descendencia de Juan Méndez de Ávila y María Rodríguez de la Mora
Capítulo 12 Descendencia de Juan de Rentería e Ysabel de Calderón Orozco
Capítulo 13 Descendencia de Juan Delgadillo y María de la Concepción de Islas
Capítulo 14 Descendencia de Pedro Martín y Juana González
Capítulo 15 Descendencia de Juan Rodríguez de Frías y Jertrudis de Amaya
Capítulo 16 Descendencia de Melchora de los Reyes Rodríguez de Carbajal viuda de Luis Delgadillo
Capítulo 17 Descendencia de Juan Diego de Morones e Ysabel de Bellocillo o Delgadillo
Capítulo 18 Descendencia de Juan Yáñez del Monte y María de Medinilla
Capítulo 19 Descendencia de Gerónimo González de Aramburu y Elvira de Carabajal
Capítulo 20 Descendencia de Juan de Estrada y Catalina Rodríguez de la Mora
Capítulo 21 Descendencia de Juan de Chávez Salguero y Francisca de Siordia
Capítulo 22 Descendencia de Gerónima de Benavides viuda de Francisco de Páez
Capítulo 23 Descendencia de Juana de Lomelín viuda de Rodrigo de Carbajal y Ullóa
Capítulo 24 Descendencia de María de Benavides vi uda de Carlos Lomellini
Capítulo 25 Descendencia de Diego Hernández y Mariana Ýñiguez
Capítulo 26 Descendencia de Juan de Carbajal y Ullóa y Jacinta de Oliva
Capítulo 27 Descendencia de Lorenzo Yáñez y María Rodríguez de la Mora
Capítulo 28 Descendencia de Domingo de Lomelín y Juana de Mendoza
Capítulo 29 Descendencia de Lucas de Lomelín y Antonia Mazías
Capítulo 30 Descendencia de Lorenzo Mexía viudo de Inés de Estrada
Capítulo 31 Descendencia de Martín López y Elvira de Carvajal
Capítulo 32 Descendencia de Francisco Básques y Andrea Cortés
Capítulo 33 Descendencia de Bernardo de Ysla y María o Mariana Catharina de Sandoval
Capítulo 34 Descendencia de Luis Delgadillo el mozo y Cata de Yslas
Capítulo 35 Descendencia de Nicolás Mexía y Elvira de Yslas
Capítulo 36 Descendencia de Matheo de Rubalcava y Ana de Yslas
Capítulo 37 Descendencia de Juo de Estrada y Juana de Siordia
Capítulo 38 Descendencia de Nicolás Rodríguez (de Frías e Ýñiguez) y Antonia de Híjar y Mesa
Capítulo 39 Descendencia de Sebastián Ýñiguez y María de Messa
Capítulo 40 Descendencia de Nicolás Íñigues y María de Ullóa
Capítulo 41 Descendencia de Nicolás Carrillo y Agustina Ximénez
Capítulo 42 Descendencia de Matheo Pérez de Frías y Thomasa de la Cruz
Capítulo 43 Des cendencia de Lorenzo de Rubalcava y Catalina González
Capítulo 44 Descendencia de Juan de Aguayo y Catalina de la Cruz o de Salas
Capítulo 45 Descendencia de Juo de Sandoval y Madalena Gonsález
Capítulo 46 Descendencia de Diego de Aguayo el viejo e Ysabel de Silva
Capítulo 47 Descendencia de Alonso Martín Bermejo e Isabel Pérez de Gardéa
Capítulo 48 Descendencia de Juan de la Cruz Bermejo y Andrea González de la Besares
Capítulo 49 Descendencia del Capitán Juan Lozano e Inés Martínez
Capítulo 50 Descendencia de Pedro Hernández y de Antonia Delgadillo
Capítulo 51 Descendencia de Esteban de Tejeda y Luisa Delgadillo o Bellocillo
Capítulo 52 Descendencia de Antonio de Aguayo y Luisa de Islas
Capítulo 53 Descendencia de Benito o Bernardino de Ysla y Magdalena de la Besares
Capítulo 54 Descendencia de Juan Rodríguez de la Mora e Ysabel Delgadillo
Capítulo 55 Descendencia de Juan de la Cruz y María de Gabáy
Capítulo 56 Descendencia de Nicolás de Venavides y Ana de Santiago o Pérez o González
Capítulo 57 Descendencia de Diego de Benavides y Juana Delgadillo
Capítulo 58 Descendencia de Martín Navarro y Petronila de Moctezuma
Capítulo 59 Descendencia de Descendencia de Jerónimo de Benavides y Catalina Cortés
Capítulo 60 Descendencia de Pedro Cortés Natural de los Reinos de Castilla
Capítulo 61 Descendencia de Andrés d e Cuevas y María de Benavides
Capítulo 62 Descendencia de Diego Sánchez Carranza y Ana Muñoz
Capítulo 63 Descendencia de Juan de Sepúlveda el Viejo y Magda Rodríguez o López
Capítulo 64 Ascendencia de Doña Antonia de Híjar y Mesa
Capítulo 65 Descendencia de Nicolás de Navarrete y Argote y Beatriz de Villegas Barrientos o Bracamonte
Capítulo 66 Descendencia de Bernardo González Domínguez y María Florençia Yáñez
Capítulo 67 Descendencia de Antonio Ýñiguez y Jacinta de Cuevas
Capítulo 68 Descendencia de Pedro González y María de Frías
Capítulo 69 Descendencia de Matheo de Rubalcava y Cecilia Vázquez de Isla
Capítulo 70 Descendencia de Gonzalo Yáñez del Monte y Gerónima de Benavides
Capítulo 71 Descendencia de Juan del Castillo e Ysabel de Rojas
Capítulo 72 Descendencia del Capitán Don Diego de las Marinas y Luisa de Aguayo
Capítulo 73 Descendencia de Luis de Medina Baldivia y María de Siordia
Capítulo 74 Descendencia de Diego Ximénez y Catarina de Arellano
Capítulo 75 Descendencia de Juan Ýñiguez y Andrea Cortés
Capítulo 76 Descendencia de Miguel Rodríguez de Cuevas
Capítulo 77 Descendencia de Francisco González Martínez y Magdalena de la Besares
Capítulo 78 Rodrigo de Frías Conquistador de Cíbola
Capítulo 79 Descendencia de Hernando de Frías
Capítulo 80 Los Pérez de Frías o Pérez Burgeño o Pérez Espinoza de Santa María de los Lagos a Principios del Siglo XVII - Descendencia de Juan Pérez de Frías y María López de Elizalde
Capítulo 81 Descendencia de Juan López de Elizalde y Aberruza y de Leonor Becerra y Sánchez de Mendoza
Capítulo 82 Descendencia de Juan Pérez de Frías y Ana o María López
Capítulo 83 Descendencia de Sebastián Pérez de Frías y la India de Tlaltenango Magdalena de Bobadilla
Capítulo 84 Descendencia de Diego Morán y Luisa Delgadillo
Capítulo 85 Descendencia de Ysidro de Araujo Guerrero y Beatriz Burgeño Pérez o López
Capítulo 86 Descendencia de Juan Rodríguez de Carbajal y Josepha de Frías o Delgadillo
Capítulo 87 Sumario de los Juan Pérez de Frías
Capítulo 88 Los Frías de Tlaltenango
Capítulo 89 Los Frías de Zacatecas
Capítulo 90 Descendencia de Nicolás Rodríguez de Frías y Torres y de Phelipa de Santiago Valdivia
Capítulo 91 Descendencia de Joséf Cristóbal Rodríguez de Frías y Valdivia y María Juana Gertrudis Martín
Capítulo 92 Descendencia de Juan Joséf María Rodríguez de Frías y María Manuela Gertrudis de
Anda
Capítulo 93 Descendencia de Jossé Guadalupe Rodríguez de Frías e Ysabel de los Dolores
Casillas y Cabrera
Capítulo 94 Descendencia de José Feliciano Rodríguez de Frías y María Marcelina Gallo Romo
de Vivar
Capítulo 95 Descendencia de Cristóbal Rodríguez de Frías y María Sostenes Limón López
Capítulo 96 Descendencia de Anastasio F Rodríguez de Frías y Fortunata Contreras
Capítulo 97 Descendencia de Miguel Pedro Rodríguez de Frías y María Asunción Gallardo
Capítulo 98 Descendencia de Prisciliano Rodríguez de Frías y Emerenciana Guajardo
Capítulo 99 Descendencia de Ramón Rodríguez de Frías y Delfina Franco
Capítulo 100 Ascendencia de Arturo Vázquez y León
Apéndice 1 Lista de Registros Parroquiales en Microfilm por la Academia de Genealogía y Heráldica Mejicana y la Iglesia de los Santos de los Últimos Días Utilizados en Esta Obra
Apéndice 2 Padrón del partido de Nochistlán y sus subjetos, estansias, pobladores y Ranchos Fho en 20 de Septiembre de 1649
Apéndice 3 Padrón de las personas de Confessión y Comon de este partido de Nochistlán deste año de 1664
Apéndice 4 Extractos del Segundo Ynterrogatorio General para La Bissita deste Reyno que sale el Señor Licenciado don Juo Dávalos y toledo del cono del Rey Nto Sor Oydor de la Rl Audia de Guadalajara
Apéndice 5 Lista Parcial de Alcaldes y Tenientes de Alcalde de la Jurisdicción de Nochistlán y Lares Cercanos
Índice de Figuras, Figuras, Firmas
-----Original Message-----
From: Susan and Joe Cadena
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tue, Nov 3, 2009 8:16 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogias de Nochistlan...
Just to update any others interested - I contacted Borderlands Bookstore
fter reading the message from José. I received a response from George
arias that he carried the book about 10 years ago but it is out of print
nd no longer available from him.
uess we'll just have to keep looking.....
Susan Cadena
-----Original Message-----
rom: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of JOSE AGUAYO
ent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 4:38 PM
o: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ubject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogias de Nochistlan...
Ricardo:
ENEALOGIAS DE NOCHISTLAN ANTIGUO REINO DE LA NUEVA GALICIA...esta
isponible en Borderlands Bookstore, San Antonio, Texas. El sitio de web de
a tienda es www.borderlandsbooks.com. El
umero de telefono es 210-647-7535.
My old friend, Connie! How are you doing?
I've been working on two Calvillo families and two Jalos families. The only problem is that some Calvillo families back up into Tabasco where we don't have any marriage records before 1774. I know that many of the Tabasco (or Santa Maria Mecatabasco) families had origins in La Ciudad de Aguascalientes, but it's hard to prove the links without the marriages.
Any suggestions? Is it possible perhaps that marriages for Mecatabasco from 1747 to 1774 took place in Rincon de Ramos/San Jose de Gracia or in La Ciudad?
I agree that Jose's book is a masterpiece. I've assisted several people in tracing their Nochistlan and Aguascalientes roots and it is invaluable.
John Schmal
-----Original Message-----
From: cdominguez10@elp.rr.com
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Cc: johnnypj@aol.com
Sent: Wed, Nov 4, 2009 6:12 am
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogia de Nochistlan, Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII segun sus Archivos Parroquiales
Hi Johnny/All, I'm glad to see the great amounts of work Jose put into his book are truly appreciated. I worked with him for several years and knew him well...and he would have loved that his book was useful to so many. I do have the book...and my part of the research I did for him. If you need a lookup (I know it's not the same as having the book), I would be happy to provide the info. Please note my new email address.....I've been out of touch for a few years due to many life changes. Thanks again! Connie Dominguez -- Connie Dominguez, MPA 12301 Amstater Circle El Paso, TX 79936 915-799-6036 cdominguez10@elp.rr.com ---- johnnypj@aol.com wrote: ============= I wish I could help but my copy is in three pieces - from overuse. Spectacular resource. Try large libraries. Some may have it available as a reference source: "Genealogia de Nochistlan, Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII segun sus Archivos Parroquiales." Author is Jose Luis Vazquez y Rodriguez de Frias. This was privately printed in 2001, with more than 400 pages, and thousands of surnames in the index, and "data from Jalostitlan, Lagos de Moreno, Aguascalientes, Guadalajara, Teocaltiche, Tepatitlan, San Luis Potosi, Michoacan and more." Genealogía de Nochistlán Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII según sus Archivos Parroquiales by José Luis Vázquez y Rodríguez de Frías 100 Chapters, 500 pages, 6500+ name Index, 40 trees, 50 signatures, baptisms, confirmations, marriages, wills, dispensations, statistics, deaths, padrinos, testigos, dates, half of book in paleography of the original documents, 5 years of research, a MUST for the genealogist who wants to go into the XVII century in the Nochistlán Area (Jalos, Tepa, Aguscalientes, Mesticacan, etc.) Based on the census of 1649 and 1664 published for the first time (the originals have been "misplaced" at the Sagrada M itra). With the collaboration of top genealogists Mary Lou Montagna, José Alfonso Rodríguez de Carbajal (historiador de Mesticacán), Consuelo Domínguez, and others (+). Only 300 copies to be printed in the first edition. Tentative price $50.00 plus 5.00 shipping in the US and Méjico. Reserve your copy or put yourself on the list. Complete this form and send to Connie Domínguez connied@elp.rr.com or Mary Lou Montagna montagnajml@worldnet.att.net or call him at 011 52 1 615 3924 in Juárez, Méjico. Lista de Pobladores del Valle de Nochistlán según los Padrones de 1649 y 1664 y demás Información Tratados en Capítulos en esta Obra. Capítulo 1 Descendencia de Mari Gómez española viuda de Miguel Rodríguez Capítulo 2 Descendencia de Juan Ximón Durán y Regina de Aguayo Capítulo 3 Descendencia de Diego de Aguayo e Ysabel Beatris de Vergara Arzaga Capítulo 4 Descendencia de Diego de Salazar y Melchora de los Reyes Capítulo 5 Descendencia de Catalina Cortés viuda de Juan de Moscoso y Sandobal el Viejo Capítulo 6 Descendencia de Diego de Moscoso Sandoval y María Delgadillo o Rodríguez de Carvajal Capítulo 7 Descendencia de Juan Lozano y Josepha Vázquez de Sandobal Capítulo 8 Descendencia de Diego González de Isla y Cecilia Vázquez o de Sandoval Capítulo 9 Descendencia de Antonio de Belasco y Beatriz de Amaya Capítulo 10 Descendencia de Gerónimo de Aránbulo Capítulo 11 Descendencia de Juan Méndez de Ávila y María Rodríguez de la Mora Capítulo 12 Descendencia de Juan de Rentería e Ysabel de Calderón Orozco Capítulo 13 Descendencia de Juan Delgadillo y María de la Concepción de Islas Capítulo 14 Descendencia de Pedro Martín y Juana González Capítulo 15 Descendencia de Juan Rodríguez de Frías y Jertrudis de Amaya Capítulo 16 Descendencia de Melchora de los Reyes Rodríguez de Carbajal viuda de Luis Delgadillo Capítulo 17 Descendencia de Juan Diego de Morones e Ysabel de Bellocillo o Delgadillo Capítulo 18 Descendencia de Juan Yáñez del Monte y María de Medinilla Capítulo 19 Descendencia de Gerónimo González de Aramburu y Elvira de Carabajal Capítulo 20 Descendencia de Juan de Estrada y Catalina Rodríguez de la Mora Capítulo 21 Descendencia de Juan de Chávez Salguero y Francisca de Siordia Capítulo 22 Descendencia de Gerónima de Benavides viuda de Francisco de Páez Capítulo 23 Descendencia de Juana de Lomelín viuda de Rodrigo de Carbajal y Ullóa Capítulo 24 Descendencia de María de Benavides vi uda de Carlos Lomellini Capítulo 25 Descendencia de Diego Hernández y Mariana Ýñiguez Capítulo 26 Descendencia de Juan de Carbajal y Ullóa y Jacinta de Oliva Capítulo 27 Descendencia de Lorenzo Yáñez y María Rodríguez de la Mora Capítulo 28 Descendencia de Domingo de Lomelín y Juana de Mendoza Capítulo 29 Descendencia de Lucas de Lomelín y Antonia Mazías Capítulo 30 Descendencia de Lorenzo Mexía viudo de Inés de Estrada Capítulo 31 Descendencia de Martín López y Elvira de Carvajal Capítulo 32 Descendencia de Francisco Básques y Andrea Cortés Capítulo 33 Descendencia de Bernardo de Ysla y María o Mariana Catharina de Sandoval Capítulo 34 Descendencia de Luis Delgadillo el mozo y Cata de Yslas Capítulo 35 Descendencia de Nicolás Mexía y Elvira de Yslas Capítulo 36 Descendencia de Matheo de Rubalcava y Ana de Yslas Capítulo 37 Descendencia de Juo de Estrada y Juana de Siordia Capítulo 38 Descendencia de Nicolás Rodríguez (de Frías e Ýñiguez) y Antonia de Híjar y Mesa Capítulo 39 Descendencia de Sebastián Ýñiguez y María de Messa Capítulo 40 Descendencia de Nicolás Íñigues y María de Ullóa Capítulo 41 Descendencia de Nicolás Carrillo y Agustina Ximénez Capítulo 42 Descendencia de Matheo Pérez de Frías y Thomasa de la Cruz Capítulo 43 Des cendencia de Lorenzo de Rubalcava y Catalina González Capítulo 44 Descendencia de Juan de Aguayo y Catalina de la Cruz o de Salas Capítulo 45 Descendencia de Juo de Sandoval y Madalena Gonsález Capítulo 46 Descendencia de Diego de Aguayo el viejo e Ysabel de Silva Capítulo 47 Descendencia de Alonso Martín Bermejo e Isabel Pérez de Gardéa Capítulo 48 Descendencia de Juan de la Cruz Bermejo y Andrea González de la Besares Capítulo 49 Descendencia del Capitán Juan Lozano e Inés Martínez Capítulo 50 Descendencia de Pedro Hernández y de Antonia Delgadillo Capítulo 51 Descendencia de Esteban de Tejeda y Luisa Delgadillo o Bellocillo Capítulo 52 Descendencia de Antonio de Aguayo y Luisa de Islas Capítulo 53 Descendencia de Benito o Bernardino de Ysla y Magdalena de la Besares Capítulo 54 Descendencia de Juan Rodríguez de la Mora e Ysabel Delgadillo Capítulo 55 Descendencia de Juan de la Cruz y María de Gabáy Capítulo 56 Descendencia de Nicolás de Venavides y Ana de Santiago o Pérez o González Capítulo 57 Descendencia de Diego de Benavides y Juana Delgadillo Capítulo 58 Descendencia de Martín Navarro y Petronila de Moctezuma Capítulo 59 Descendencia de Descendencia de Jerónimo de Benavides y Catalina Cortés Capítulo 60 Descendencia de Pedro Cortés Natural de los Reinos de Castilla Capítulo 61 Descendencia de Andrés d e Cuevas y María de Benavides Capítulo 62 Descendencia de Diego Sánchez Carranza y Ana Muñoz Capítulo 63 Descendencia de Juan de Sepúlveda el Viejo y Magda Rodríguez o López Capítulo 64 Ascendencia de Doña Antonia de Híjar y Mesa Capítulo 65 Descendencia de Nicolás de Navarrete y Argote y Beatriz de Villegas Barrientos o Bracamonte Capítulo 66 Descendencia de Bernardo González Domínguez y María Florençia Yáñez Capítulo 67 Descendencia de Antonio Ýñiguez y Jacinta de Cuevas Capítulo 68 Descendencia de Pedro González y María de Frías Capítulo 69 Descendencia de Matheo de Rubalcava y Cecilia Vázquez de Isla Capítulo 70 Descendencia de Gonzalo Yáñez del Monte y Gerónima de Benavides Capítulo 71 Descendencia de Juan del Castillo e Ysabel de Rojas Capítulo 72 Descendencia del Capitán Don Diego de las Marinas y Luisa de Aguayo Capítulo 73 Descendencia de Luis de Medina Baldivia y María de Siordia Capítulo 74 Descendencia de Diego Ximénez y Catarina de Arellano Capítulo 75 Descendencia de Juan Ýñiguez y Andrea Cortés Capítulo 76 Descendencia de Miguel Rodríguez de Cuevas Capítulo 77 Descendencia de Francisco González Martínez y Magdalena de la Besares Capítulo 78 Rodrigo de Frías Conquistador de Cíbola Capítulo 79 Descendencia de Hernando de Frías Capítulo 80 Los Pérez de Frías o Pérez Burgeño o Pérez Espinoza de Santa María de los Lagos a Principios del Siglo XVII - Descendencia de Juan Pérez de Frías y María López de Elizalde Capítulo 81 Descendencia de Juan López de Elizalde y Aberruza y de Leonor Becerra y Sánchez de Mendoza Capítulo 82 Descendencia de Juan Pérez de Frías y Ana o María López Capítulo 83 Descendencia de Sebastián Pérez de Frías y la India de Tlaltenango Magdalena de Bobadilla Capítulo 84 Descendencia de Diego Morán y Luisa Delgadillo Capítulo 85 Descendencia de Ysidro de Araujo Guerrero y Beatriz Burgeño Pérez o López Capítulo 86 Descendencia de Juan Rodríguez de Carbajal y Josepha de Frías o Delgadillo Capítulo 87 Sumario de los Juan Pérez de Frías Capítulo 88 Los Frías de Tlaltenango Capítulo 89 Los Frías de Zacatecas Capítulo 90 Descendencia de Nicolás Rodríguez de Frías y Torres y de Phelipa de Santiago Valdivia Capítulo 91 Descendencia de Joséf Cristóbal Rodríguez de Frías y Valdivia y María Juana Gertrudis Martín Capítulo 92 Descendencia de Juan Joséf María Rodríguez de Frías y María Manuela Gertrudis de Anda Capítulo 93 Descendencia de Jossé Guadalupe Rodríguez de Frías e Ysabel de los Dolores Casillas y Cabrera Capítulo 94 Descendencia de José Feliciano Rodríguez de Frías y María Marcelina Gallo Romo de Vivar Capítulo 95 Descendencia de Cristóbal Rodríguez de Frías y María Sostenes Limón López Capítulo 96 Descendencia de Anastasio F Rodríguez de Frías y Fortunata Contreras Capítulo 97 Descendencia de Miguel Pedro Rodríguez de Frías y María Asunción Gallardo Capítulo 98 Descendencia de Prisciliano Rodríguez de Frías y Emerenciana Guajardo Capítulo 99 Descendencia de Ramón Rodríguez de Frías y Delfina Franco Capítulo 100 Ascendencia de Arturo Vázquez y León Apéndice 1 Lista de Registros Parroquiales en Microfilm por la Academia de Genealogía y Heráldica Mejicana y la Iglesia de los Santos de los Últimos Días Utilizados en Esta Obra Apéndice 2 Padrón del partido de Nochistlán y sus subjetos, estansias, pobladores y Ranchos Fho en 20 de Septiembre de 1649 Apéndice 3 Padrón de las personas de Confessión y Comon de este partido de Nochistlán deste año de 1664 Apéndice 4 Extractos del Segundo Ynterrogatorio General para La Bissita deste Reyno que sale el Señor Licenciado don Juo Dávalos y toledo del cono del Rey Nto Sor Oydor de la Rl Audia de Guadalajara Apéndice 5 Lista Parcial de Alcaldes y Tenientes de Alcalde de la Jurisdicción de Nochistlán y Lares Cercanos Índice de Figuras, Figuras, Firmas -----Original Message----- From: Susan and Joe Cadena To: general@nuestrosranchos.org Sent: Tue, Nov 3, 2009 8:16 pm Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogias de Nochistlan... Just to update any others interested - I contacted Borderlands Bookstore fter reading the message from José. I received a response from George arias that he carried the book about 10 years ago but it is out of print nd no longer available from him. uess we'll just have to keep looking..... Susan Cadena -----Original Message----- rom: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of JOSE AGUAYO ent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 4:38 PM o: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org ubject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogias de Nochistlan... Ricardo: ENEALOGIAS DE NOCHISTLAN ANTIGUO REINO DE LA NUEVA GALICIA...esta isponible en Borderlands Bookstore, San Antonio, Texas. El sitio de web de a tienda es www.borderlandsbooks.com. El umero de telefono es 210-647-7535. - -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- uestros Ranchos General Mailing List -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- uestros Ranchos General Mailing List To post, send email to: eneral(at)nuestrosranchos.org To change your subscription, log on to: ttp://www.nuestrosranchos.org -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List To post, send email to: general(at)nuestrosranchos.org To change your subscription, log on to: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
Hello John
I too have many ancestors from Calvillo that seem to fall into that Villa del Refugio void as well...not just my Calvillo line but others like Loera and Villalobos. I have not ventured any further but think that maybe Tlatenango would be a place to look, only because the records go further back....and it's a wild guess anyway. I've looked at the surrounding areas and came up with nothing. I have looked at the marriage information documents for Rincon and Asientos and did not find any of my Mecatabasco people there....in fact I don't think I saw any at all.
I am hoping the Pilot site has the Jalisco and Zacatecas records soon....(wishful thinking), that way I can work on my ancestors that seem to have landed on earth from outer space.
By the way welcome back Connie....Dave told me he has spoken with you recently.
Rose
Fresno
Good to hear from you, Rose. Maybe we should show each other what we've got and see if we've traced some of the same lines?? I am almost positivie some of the Mecatabasco lines such as Villalobos, Loera and Velasco came from La Ciudad, but making the connection is tough, as you have seen too.? You may be right that Tlatenango may be the point of original from some, but I think more of them may have been in Cieneguilla or La Ciudad.
?
When I get home, I will send you one of my files to show you what I've been tracing. Many of the lines go into the Ciudad, but you will see that many of them are dead-ends and I'd love to resolve those dead-ends, and maybe Connie can offer some of her expert advice on the topic too.
?
John
?
-----Original Message-----
From: rosehardy@hotmail.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wed, Nov 4, 2009 4:35 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Calvillos from Mecatabasco
Hello John?
?
I too have many ancestors from Calvillo that seem to fall into that Villa del Refugio void as well...not just my Calvillo line but others like Loera and Villalobos. I have not ventured any further but think that maybe Tlatenango would be a place to look, only because the records go further back....and it's a wild guess anyway. I've looked at the surrounding areas and came up with nothing. I have looked at the marriage information documents for Rincon and Asientos and did not find any of my Mecatabasco people there....in fact I don't think I saw any at all. ?
I am hoping the Pilot site has the Jalisco and Zacatecas records soon....(wishful thinking), that way I can work on my ancestors that seem to have landed on earth from outer space.?
?
By the way welcome back Connie....Dave told me he has spoken with you recently.?
?
Rose?
Fresno?
Good to hear from you, Rose. Maybe we should show each other what we've got and see if we've traced some of the same lines?? I am almost positivie some of the Mecatabasco lines such as Villalobos, Loera and Velasco came from La Ciudad, but making the connection is tough, as you have seen too.? You may be right that Tlatenango may be the point of original from some, but I think more of them may have been in Cieneguilla or La Ciudad.
?
When I get home, I will send you one of my files to show you what I've been tracing. Many of the lines go into the Ciudad, but you will see that many of them are dead-ends and I'd love to resolve those dead-ends, and maybe Connie can offer some of her expert advice on the topic too.
?
John
?
-----Original Message-----
From: rosehardy@hotmail.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wed, Nov 4, 2009 4:35 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Calvillos from Mecatabasco
Hello John?
?
I too have many ancestors from Calvillo that seem to fall into that Villa del Refugio void as well...not just my Calvillo line but others like Loera and Villalobos. I have not ventured any further but think that maybe Tlatenango would be a place to look, only because the records go further back....and it's a wild guess anyway. I've looked at the surrounding areas and came up with nothing. I have looked at the marriage information documents for Rincon and Asientos and did not find any of my Mecatabasco people there....in fact I don't think I saw any at all. ?
I am hoping the Pilot site has the Jalisco and Zacatecas records soon....(wishful thinking), that way I can work on my ancestors that seem to have landed on earth from outer space.?
?
By the way welcome back Connie....Dave told me he has spoken with you recently.?
?
Rose?
Fresno?
Hi Rose and Johnny, want to compare lines and records?
I have many ancestors who were baptized in Tabasco, Zac.
Most were not even born there but came from other places.
My Velascos came from Calvillo and Aguascalientes, Ags.
My other lines came from Huanusco, Jalpa, Zac. Others in
Teocaltiche, Jalisco. During this time (the records start 1754?
This was the main parishi n the area.) Calvillo didnt have a church
until 1772 which is San Jose. Not sure about Tlatanegno, Juchipila
if they came to Tabasco during this time or even Plateado. There pretty
scattered around. I have altenos from Jalisco goingto Calvillo and
Mecatabasco to get baptized. Nt sure why? Have you checked Teocaltiche?
-Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
Daniel
Yup, I have looked at Teocaltiche and Nochistlan. I have gone as far back as I can go from the earliest Mecatabasco/Villa del Refugio film as I can go. I have looked at every Aguascalientes film and done it 3-4 times in the past 18 years. There are many families in the early Calvillo records that came from Mecatabasco and Teocaltiche.....one family from Teocaltiche is the Saucedo's....I only know this because my research partner Dave Valdez has studied that area extensively. By the way Daniel I sent you an email if your interested in speaking with him. He's a good friend of Nicolas de Anda Sanchez.
Rose
Hi Rose!
What can you tell me about the Saucedos of Calvillo who came from Teocaltiche?
Heres a quick note of my ancestors marriage
En 25 sep 1774 en Valle de Huejucar de Calvillo......Jose Maria de Jesus(gonzalez) de Ruvalcaba, espanol...originario de Teocaltiche en el ArroyoSeco...vecino en la Mesa Granda de esta feligresia hijo lexitimo dedon Nicolas (Gonzalez) de Ruvalcaba y Juana Maria de Saucedooriginarios de Teocaltiche....con Maria Barbara Ramirez, espanola.....hija lexitima de don Bernardo Ramirez y Anastasia de Medina....
I have found other Saucedo families in Mesa Grande, Calvillo and all state they have roots in Teocaltiche, so I figured they were allrelated, plus they were all espanol. One I remember off the top ofmy head is Juan Zacarias de Saucedo who married Margarita Ruiz.
Do you or Dave Valdez have a transcription of people or espanolesin the area of Mecatabasco or Calvillo?
Could you give me his email, im interested in communicating with him.
-Daniel Mendez de Camino
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: rosehardy@hotmail.com
> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 05:22:35 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Calvillos from Mecatabasco
>
> Daniel
>
> Yup, I have looked at Teocaltiche and Nochistlan. I have gone as far back as I can go from the earliest Mecatabasco/Villa del Refugio film as I can go. I have looked at every Aguascalientes film and done it 3-4 times in the past 18 years. There are many families in the early Calvillo records that came from Mecatabasco and Teocaltiche.....one family from Teocaltiche is the Saucedo's....I only know this because my research partner Dave Valdez has studied that area extensively. By the way Daniel I sent you an email if your interested in speaking with him. He's a good friend of Nicolas de Anda Sanchez.
>
> Rose
HOla Rose Hardy, yo estoy investigando la línea Salamanca Salcedo. Pero no encuentro información más atrás de 28 Julio 1764 que nace la primera hija
Maria Ysavel Salamanca Salsedo (que se tiene registrada) de Jph Manl De Salamanca y Bernarda Salsedo. ¡Si tiene más información que pudieranc compartir se los agradecería mucho!
Wow I have some Saucedos who were espanol. In Calvillo and oten traveled to Tabasco.
Maybe related? -Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
COMO ESTAN TODOS?
A LA GENTE DE JALISCO LES RECOMIENDO VISITAR ESTA PAGINA. PUEDEN CONOCER
PERSONAS Y FAMILIAS ACTUALES DENTRO Y FUERA DE JALISCO. DE CARNE Y HUESO, E
INTERCAMBIAR IDEAS, HISTORIAS, MUSICA, TRADICIONES, Y HASTA RASTREAR
PARIENTES Y APELLIDOS.
http://mijalisco.ning.com/profiles/message/listInbox
http://mijalisco.ning.com/?xgo=hDzAuedCZo4NtJaUKbW-eiNR5Y38aPTvlaShXO/Y…
MUUUYY RECOMENDADA, SALUDOS
--------------------------------------------------
From:
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:39 PM
To: ;
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogia de Nochistlan - Y Santa
MariaMecatabasco
> My old friend, Connie! How are you doing?
>
>
>
>
>
> I've been working on two Calvillo families and two Jalos families. The
> only problem is that some Calvillo families back up into Tabasco where we
> don't have any marriage records before 1774. I know that many of the
> Tabasco (or Santa Maria Mecatabasco) families had origins in La Ciudad de
> Aguascalientes, but it's hard to prove the links without the marriages.
>
>
>
>
>
> Any suggestions? Is it possible perhaps that marriages for Mecatabasco
> from 1747 to 1774 took place in Rincon de Ramos/San Jose de Gracia or in
> La Ciudad?
>
>
>
>
>
> I agree that Jose's book is a masterpiece. I've assisted several people in
> tracing their Nochistlan and Aguascalientes roots and it is invaluable.
>
>
>
>
>
> John Schmal
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: cdominguez10@elp.rr.com
>
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
>
> Cc: johnnypj@aol.com
>
> Sent: Wed, Nov 4, 2009 6:12 am
>
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogia de Nochistlan, Antiguo Reino de
> la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII segun sus Archivos Parroquiales
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Johnny/All, I'm glad to see the great amounts of work Jose put into
> his book are truly appreciated. I worked with him for several years and
> knew him well...and he would have loved that his book was useful to so
> many. I do have the book...and my part of the research I did for him.
> If you need a lookup (I know it's not the same as having the book), I
> would be happy to provide the info. Please note my new email
> address.....I've been out of touch for a few years due to many life
> changes. Thanks again! Connie Dominguez -- Connie Dominguez, MPA
> 12301 Amstater Circle El Paso, TX 79936 915-799-6036
> cdominguez10@elp.rr.com ---- johnnypj@aol.com wrote: =============
> I wish I could help but my copy is in three pieces - from overuse.
> Spectacular resource. Try large libraries. Some may have it available as
> a reference source: "Genealogia de Nochistlan, Antiguo Reino de la
> Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII segun sus Archivos Parroquiales." Author
> is Jose Luis Vazquez y Rodriguez de Frias. This was privately printed in
> 2001, with more than 400 pages, and thousands of surnames in the index,
> and "data from Jalostitlan, Lagos de Moreno, Aguascalientes,
> Guadalajara, Teocaltiche, Tepatitlan, San Luis Potosi, Michoacan and
> more." Genealogía de Nochistlán Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia
> en el Siglo XVII según sus Archivos Parroquiales by José Luis Vázquez y
> Rodríguez de Frías 100 Chapters, 500 pages, 6500+ name Index, 40 trees,
> 50 signatures, baptisms, confirmations, marriages, wills, dispensations,
> statistics, deaths, padrinos, testigos, dates, half of book in
> paleography of the original documents, 5 years of research, a MUST for
> the genealogist who wants to go into the XVII century in the Nochistlán
> Area (Jalos, Tepa, Aguscalientes, Mesticacan, etc.) Based on the census
> of 1649 and 1664 published for the first time (the originals have been
> "misplaced" at the Sagrada M itra). With the collaboration of top
> genealogists Mary Lou Montagna, José Alfonso Rodríguez de Carbajal
> (historiador de Mesticacán), Consuelo Domínguez, and others (+). Only
> 300 copies to be printed in the first edition. Tentative price $50.00
> plus 5.00 shipping in the US and Méjico. Reserve your copy or put
> yourself on the list. Complete this form and send to Connie Domínguez
> connied@elp.rr.com or Mary Lou Montagna montagnajml@worldnet.att.net or
> call him at 011 52 1 615 3924 in Juárez, Méjico. Lista de
> Pobladores del Valle de Nochistlán según los Padrones de 1649 y 1664
> y demás Información Tratados en Capítulos en esta Obra. Capítulo 1
> Descendencia de Mari Gómez española viuda de Miguel Rodríguez Capítulo 2
> Descendencia de Juan Ximón Durán y Regina de Aguayo Capítulo 3
> Descendencia de Diego de Aguayo e Ysabel Beatris de Vergara Arzaga
> Capítulo 4 Descendencia de Diego de Salazar y Melchora de los Reyes
> Capítulo 5 Descendencia de Catalina Cortés viuda de Juan de Moscoso y
> Sandobal el Viejo Capítulo 6 Descendencia de Diego de Moscoso Sandoval
> y María Delgadillo o Rodríguez de Carvajal Capítulo 7 Descendencia de
> Juan Lozano y Josepha Vázquez de Sandobal Capítulo 8 Descendencia de
> Diego González de Isla y Cecilia Vázquez o de Sandoval Capítulo 9
> Descendencia de Antonio de Belasco y Beatriz de Amaya Capítulo 10
> Descendencia de Gerónimo de Aránbulo Capítulo 11 Descendencia de Juan
> Méndez de Ávila y María Rodríguez de la Mora Capítulo 12 Descendencia de
> Juan de Rentería e Ysabel de Calderón Orozco Capítulo 13 Descendencia de
> Juan Delgadillo y María de la Concepción de Islas Capítulo 14
> Descendencia de Pedro Martín y Juana González Capítulo 15 Descendencia de
> Juan Rodríguez de Frías y Jertrudis de Amaya Capítulo 16 Descendencia de
> Melchora de los Reyes Rodríguez de Carbajal viuda de Luis Delgadillo
> Capítulo 17 Descendencia de Juan Diego de Morones e Ysabel de Bellocillo o
> Delgadillo Capítulo 18 Descendencia de Juan Yáñez del Monte y María de
> Medinilla Capítulo 19 Descendencia de Gerónimo González de Aramburu y
> Elvira de Carabajal Capítulo 20 Descendencia de Juan de Estrada y
> Catalina Rodríguez de la Mora Capítulo 21 Descendencia de Juan de Chávez
> Salguero y Francisca de Siordia Capítulo 22 Descendencia de Gerónima de
> Benavides viuda de Francisco de Páez Capítulo 23 Descendencia de Juana de
> Lomelín viuda de Rodrigo de Carbajal y Ullóa Capítulo 24 Descendencia
> de María de Benavides vi uda de Carlos Lomellini Capítulo 25 Descendencia
> de Diego Hernández y Mariana Ýñiguez Capítulo 26 Descendencia de Juan de
> Carbajal y Ullóa y Jacinta de Oliva Capítulo 27 Descendencia de Lorenzo
> Yáñez y María Rodríguez de la Mora Capítulo 28 Descendencia de Domingo de
> Lomelín y Juana de Mendoza Capítulo 29 Descendencia de Lucas de Lomelín y
> Antonia Mazías Capítulo 30 Descendencia de Lorenzo Mexía viudo de Inés
> de Estrada Capítulo 31 Descendencia de Martín López y Elvira de Carvajal
> Capítulo 32 Descendencia de Francisco Básques y Andrea Cortés Capítulo 33
> Descendencia de Bernardo de Ysla y María o Mariana Catharina de Sandoval
> Capítulo 34 Descendencia de Luis Delgadillo el mozo y Cata de Yslas
> Capítulo 35 Descendencia de Nicolás Mexía y Elvira de Yslas Capítulo 36
> Descendencia de Matheo de Rubalcava y Ana de Yslas Capítulo 37
> Descendencia de Juo de Estrada y Juana de Siordia Capítulo 38
> Descendencia de Nicolás Rodríguez (de Frías e Ýñiguez) y Antonia de
> Híjar y Mesa Capítulo 39 Descendencia de Sebastián Ýñiguez y María de
> Messa Capítulo 40 Descendencia de Nicolás Íñigues y María de Ullóa
> Capítulo 41 Descendencia de Nicolás Carrillo y Agustina Ximénez Capítulo
> 42 Descendencia de Matheo Pérez de Frías y Thomasa de la Cruz Capítulo 43
> Des cendencia de Lorenzo de Rubalcava y Catalina González Capítulo 44
> Descendencia de Juan de Aguayo y Catalina de la Cruz o de Salas Capítulo
> 45 Descendencia de Juo de Sandoval y Madalena Gonsález Capítulo 46
> Descendencia de Diego de Aguayo el viejo e Ysabel de Silva Capítulo 47
> Descendencia de Alonso Martín Bermejo e Isabel Pérez de Gardéa Capítulo
> 48 Descendencia de Juan de la Cruz Bermejo y Andrea González de la
> Besares Capítulo 49 Descendencia del Capitán Juan Lozano e Inés Martínez
> Capítulo 50 Descendencia de Pedro Hernández y de Antonia Delgadillo
> Capítulo 51 Descendencia de Esteban de Tejeda y Luisa Delgadillo o
> Bellocillo Capítulo 52 Descendencia de Antonio de Aguayo y Luisa de Islas
> Capítulo 53 Descendencia de Benito o Bernardino de Ysla y Magdalena de la
> Besares Capítulo 54 Descendencia de Juan Rodríguez de la Mora e Ysabel
> Delgadillo Capítulo 55 Descendencia de Juan de la Cruz y María de Gabáy
> Capítulo 56 Descendencia de Nicolás de Venavides y Ana de Santiago o Pérez
> o González Capítulo 57 Descendencia de Diego de Benavides y Juana
> Delgadillo Capítulo 58 Descendencia de Martín Navarro y Petronila de
> Moctezuma Capítulo 59 Descendencia de Descendencia de Jerónimo de
> Benavides y Catalina Cortés Capítulo 60 Descendencia de Pedro Cortés
> Natural de los Reinos de Castilla Capítulo 61 Descendencia de Andrés d e
> Cuevas y María de Benavides Capítulo 62 Descendencia de Diego Sánchez
> Carranza y Ana Muñoz Capítulo 63 Descendencia de Juan de Sepúlveda el
> Viejo y Magda Rodríguez o López Capítulo 64 Ascendencia de Doña Antonia
> de Híjar y Mesa Capítulo 65 Descendencia de Nicolás de Navarrete y Argote
> y Beatriz de Villegas Barrientos o Bracamonte Capítulo 66
> Descendencia de Bernardo González Domínguez y María Florençia Yáñez
> Capítulo 67 Descendencia de Antonio Ýñiguez y Jacinta de Cuevas Capítulo
> 68 Descendencia de Pedro González y María de Frías Capítulo 69
> Descendencia de Matheo de Rubalcava y Cecilia Vázquez de Isla Capítulo
> 70 Descendencia de Gonzalo Yáñez del Monte y Gerónima de Benavides
> Capítulo 71 Descendencia de Juan del Castillo e Ysabel de Rojas Capítulo
> 72 Descendencia del Capitán Don Diego de las Marinas y Luisa de Aguayo
> Capítulo 73 Descendencia de Luis de Medina Baldivia y María de Siordia
> Capítulo 74 Descendencia de Diego Ximénez y Catarina de Arellano Capítulo
> 75 Descendencia de Juan Ýñiguez y Andrea Cortés Capítulo 76 Descendencia
> de Miguel Rodríguez de Cuevas Capítulo 77 Descendencia de Francisco
> González Martínez y Magdalena de la Besares Capítulo 78 Rodrigo de
> Frías Conquistador de Cíbola Capítulo 79 Descendencia de Hernando de
> Frías Capítulo 80 Los Pérez de Frías o Pérez Burgeño o Pérez Espinoza
> de Santa María de los Lagos a Principios del Siglo XVII - Descendencia
> de Juan Pérez de Frías y María López de Elizalde Capítulo 81
> Descendencia de Juan López de Elizalde y Aberruza y de Leonor Becerra y
> Sánchez de Mendoza Capítulo 82 Descendencia de Juan Pérez de Frías y Ana
> o María López Capítulo 83 Descendencia de Sebastián Pérez de Frías y la
> India de Tlaltenango Magdalena de Bobadilla Capítulo 84 Descendencia de
> Diego Morán y Luisa Delgadillo Capítulo 85 Descendencia de Ysidro de
> Araujo Guerrero y Beatriz Burgeño Pérez o López Capítulo 86
> Descendencia de Juan Rodríguez de Carbajal y Josepha de Frías o
> Delgadillo Capítulo 87 Sumario de los Juan Pérez de Frías Capítulo 88
> Los Frías de Tlaltenango Capítulo 89 Los Frías de Zacatecas Capítulo
> 90 Descendencia de Nicolás Rodríguez de Frías y Torres y de Phelipa de
> Santiago Valdivia Capítulo 91 Descendencia de Joséf Cristóbal Rodríguez
> de Frías y Valdivia y María Juana Gertrudis Martín Capítulo 92
> Descendencia de Juan Joséf María Rodríguez de Frías y María Manuela
> Gertrudis de Anda Capítulo 93 Descendencia de Jossé Guadalupe Rodríguez
> de Frías e Ysabel de los Dolores Casillas y Cabrera Capítulo 94
> Descendencia de José Feliciano Rodríguez de Frías y María Marcelina
> Gallo Romo de Vivar Capítulo 95 Descendencia de Cristóbal Rodríguez de
> Frías y María Sostenes Limón López Capítulo 96 Descendencia de
> Anastasio F Rodríguez de Frías y Fortunata Contreras Capítulo 97
> Descendencia de Miguel Pedro Rodríguez de Frías y María Asunción
> Gallardo Capítulo 98 Descendencia de Prisciliano Rodríguez de Frías y
> Emerenciana Guajardo Capítulo 99 Descendencia de Ramón Rodríguez de
> Frías y Delfina Franco Capítulo 100 Ascendencia de Arturo Vázquez y León
> Apéndice 1 Lista de Registros Parroquiales en Microfilm por la Academia de
> Genealogía y Heráldica Mejicana y la Iglesia de los Santos de los Últimos
> Días Utilizados en Esta Obra Apéndice 2 Padrón del partido de
> Nochistlán y sus subjetos, estansias, pobladores y Ranchos Fho en 20 de
> Septiembre de 1649 Apéndice 3 Padrón de las personas de Confessión y
> Comon de este partido de Nochistlán deste año de 1664 Apéndice 4
> Extractos del Segundo Ynterrogatorio General para La Bissita deste Reyno
> que sale el Señor Licenciado don Juo Dávalos y toledo del cono del Rey Nto
> Sor Oydor de la Rl Audia de Guadalajara Apéndice 5 Lista Parcial de
> Alcaldes y Tenientes de Alcalde de la Jurisdicción de Nochistlán y Lares
> Cercanos Índice de Figuras, Figuras, Firmas -----Original
> Message----- From: Susan and Joe Cadena
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org Sent: Tue, Nov 3, 2009 8:16 pm Subject:
> [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogias de Nochistlan... Just to update any
> others interested - I contacted Borderlands Bookstore fter reading the
> message from José. I received a response from George arias that he
> carried the book about 10 years ago but it is out of print nd no longer
> available from him. uess we'll just have to keep looking..... Susan
> Cadena -----Original Message----- rom:
> general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of JOSE AGUAYO
> ent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 4:38 PM o:
> general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org ubject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogias
> de Nochistlan... Ricardo: ENEALOGIAS DE NOCHISTLAN ANTIGUO REINO DE LA
> NUEVA GALICIA...esta isponible en Borderlands Bookstore, San Antonio,
> Texas. El sitio de web de a tienda es
> www.borderlandsbooks.com. El
> umero de telefono es
> 210-647-7535. - -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- uestros Ranchos
> General Mailing List -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- uestros
> Ranchos General Mailing List To post, send email to:
> eneral(at)nuestrosranchos.org To change your subscription, log on to:
> ttp://www.nuestrosranchos.org -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List To post, send email to:
> general(at)nuestrosranchos.org To change your subscription, log on to:
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
You said many Tabasco families had origins in Aguascalientes? I know this this
is true for Calvillo, almost all of my calvillo lines came from Ciudad Aguascalientes.
Others came from Jalisco. Do you know why this sudden migration to Tabasco?
-Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
I found several baptisms in Santa Maria church in Los Remedios, Durango, some at la Capilla del Forminil, giving the birthplaces as Forminil.
Hi everyone,
Not all the Arandas Church records have been extracted or indexed, although most have been. There is one film of baptisms in the period you are interested in that is not. Marriage records only go back to 1802, but the matrimonial investigations go back into the 1790s, although none are indexed. Looking at the dispensations from the Diocese of Guadalajara may reveal something on the family; it is a long shot, but still worth the effort. There are a couple of websites that have indexed the films, and there is also book, Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara, that is worth a look.
Thank you so much for the information, I will definitely look for the book. The other website you mentioned, do you have the names of the websites?
Best regards,
Esther
Hola, buenas tardes.
Hola José Humberto.
Si la edad de José Ricardo González en la IM es de 40 años aproximádamente, es probable que haya sido hijo de esta pareja que contrajo matrimonio el 22 de Diciembre de 1710 en Nochistlán. Posiblemente Inés también pudo haber sido conocida por el apellido Sandoval y Moscoso.
(Matrimonio de Cristóbal e Inés. Última partida de la hoja del lado derecho. Imagen bastante borrosa. Los nombres de los padres de los contrayentes no se mencionan)
Saludos a todos los apasionados de la genealogía.
Como dice el adagio "todos los caminos llevan a Roma" en estos andares genealógicos todos los caminos me llevan ¡a Nueva Galicia!
Hola Marcelina,
Aqui hay unas actas que alamejor te pueden ayudar seguir la linea.
////////////////////////////////////////////
Joseph Raphael Valdes
Spouse's Name Maria Rita Magdaleno
Event Date 26 Feb 1776
Event Place Santa Maria De Los Lagos,Lagos De Moreno,Jalisco,Mexico
CITING THIS RECORD
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JCXJ-898 : 15 July 2015), Joseph Raphael Valdes and Maria Rita Magdaleno, 26 Feb 1776; citing Santa Maria De Los Lagos,Lagos De Moreno,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 221,516.
Maria Anna Magdaleno
mentioned in the record of Antonio De Padilla and Maria Anna Magdaleno
Name Antonio De Padilla
Spouse's Name Maria Anna Magdaleno
Event Date 16 May 1750
Event Place Nuestra Senora De La Asuncion,Jalostotitlan,Jalisco,Mexico
Father's Name Fransisco De Padilla
Mother's Name Maria Martin Del Campo
Spouse's Father's Name Diego Magdaleno
Spouse's Mother's Name Ygnasia Josepha De Villalobos
CITING THIS RECORD
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JC8Y-RH6 : 15 July 2015), Antonio De Padilla and Maria Anna Magdaleno, 16 May 1750; citing Nuestra Senora De La Asuncion,Jalostotitlan,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 279,296
////////////////
Maria Michaela Rosario Magdaleno Ximenes
Gender Female
Christening Date 22 Oct 1758
Christening Place EL SAGRARIO,AGUASCALIENTES,AGUASCALIENTES,MEXICO
Father's Name Joseph Diego Magdaleno
Mother's Name Anna Maria Ximenes
CITING THIS RECORD
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NTMP-RBS : 2 January 2015), Maria Michaela Rosario Magdaleno Ximenes, 22 Oct 1758; citing EL SAGRARIO,AGUASCALIENTES,AGUASCALIENTES,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 299,532.
////////////
Maria Anna Magdaleno Chabes
Gender Female
Christening Date 21 Aug 1732
Christening Place SAN JUAN DE LOS LAGOS,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Diego Magdaleno
Mother's Name Ygnacia De Chabes
CITING THIS RECORD
"Mexico Baptisms, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVR7-8VV : 2 January 2015), Maria Anna Magdaleno Chabes, 21 Aug 1732; citing SAN JUAN DE LOS LAGOS,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 220,642
///////
Maria De Sn. Jph. Magdaleno Quizada
Mexico Baptisms
Name Maria De Sn. Jph. Magdaleno Quizada
Gender Female
Christening Date 24 Aug 1785
Christening Place LA ENCARNACION,ENCARNACION DE DIAZ,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Santiago Magdaleno
Mother's Name Maria De Quizada
CITING THIS RECORD
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJ13-B58 : 12 December 2014), Maria De Sn. Jph. Magdaleno Quizada, 24 Aug 1785; citing LA ENCARNACION,ENCARNACION DE DIAZ,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 1,155,172.
///////
Maria Josefa Magdaleno Lops.
Mexico Baptisms
Name Maria Josefa Magdaleno Lops.
Gender Female
Christening Date 30 Dec 1788
Christening Place LA ENCARNACION,ENCARNACION DE DIAZ,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Sntiago. Magdaleno
Mother's Name Maria Rosalia Lops.
CITING THIS RECORD
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJ13-B5X : 12 December 2014), Maria Josefa Magdaleno Lops., 30 Dec 1788; citing LA ENCARNACION,ENCARNACION DE DIAZ,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 1,155,172
//////////
Buena Suerte,
R.A. Ricci
Voy a ir integrando la ascendencia de esa rama de la familia. Yo también estudio una rama de la familia Ledesma que pasó a Querétaro proveniente de Nochistlán y Aguascalientes en el siglo XVII, tal vez ya conozcas el libro andariegos y pobladores de Nueva Galicia, de Miguel Romero de Solís que cita a algunos miembros de la familia Ledesma, página 265 y s. Disponible en línea (PDF) Saludos
Marcelina
Hola, buenas tardes, primero agradecer que me hayan admitido en su grupo.
Mi nombre es José ángel camacho flores de igual manera es mi nombre de usuario, mi interés por formar parte de su valioso grupo, es mas que todo. poder averiguar mas de mis antepasados.
He hecho algunas investigaciones, y mis areas de interés son las siguientes:
Investigar mas sobre el apellido CAMACHO, mis abuelos paternos vivieron en el área de EL RANCHO DE LOS RIOS en JEREZ,ZACATECAS. aunque creo que los abuelos de ellos llegaron de VILLANUEVA, ZACATECAS.(villagutierrez del águila).
El segundo apellido a investigar es el GUZMAN, apellido es de mi abuela materna, ellos eran de SAN JUAN DE LOS LAGOS, JALISCO, aunque los padres de ellos eran de ENCARNACION DE DIAZ, JALISCO y posiblemente los de ellos de AGUASCALIENTES.
El tercer apellido es FLORES, de mi abuelo materno, el vivió en SAN JUAN DE LOS LAGOS JALISCO. de el tengo poca información.
Por ultimo el cuarto apellido es PALOS, es el apellido de mi tatarabuelo materno, de el llevo su nombre: José Ángel. el vivio en SAN JUAN DE LOS LAGOS, JALISCO. los padres de el venían de OJUELOS, JALISCO y posiblemente los de ellos de AGUASCALIENTES.
De antemano agradezco. sus atenciones, esperando prosperar en este grupo y aportar mi granito de arena
Saludos y gracias!!
[https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-a…] Libre de virus. www.avast.com
Hola, Jose Angel, y bienvenido a Nuestros Ranchos. Yo tengo familia por
todo Jalisco, Distrito Federal, Colima, Guadalajara, Guanajuato, Michoacán
y otros lugares. Muchos de mi familia viven por todo Estados Unidos
incluyendo Illinois, Michigan, Iowa, Tejas, y todo California, Norte y Sur.
Has hecho la prueba de ADN? Yo tratare de buscar alguna información pero
también habrá muchos miembros de Nuestros Ranchos que te pueden ayudar.
Yo vivo en California Norte (Ukiah).
Saludos,
Esther Jordan Lopez (y tambien Mendoza)
On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 4:29 PM angelus Camacho Flores <
angelus957@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hola, buenas tardes, primero agradecer que me hayan admitido en su grupo.
> Mi nombre es José ángel camacho flores de igual manera es mi nombre de
> usuario, mi interés por formar parte de su valioso grupo, es mas que todo.
> poder averiguar mas de mis antepasados.
> He hecho algunas investigaciones, y mis areas de interés son las
> siguientes:
> Investigar mas sobre el apellido CAMACHO, mis abuelos paternos vivieron en
> el área de EL RANCHO DE LOS RIOS en JEREZ,ZACATECAS. aunque creo que los
> abuelos de ellos llegaron de VILLANUEVA, ZACATECAS.(villagutierrez del
> águila).
> El segundo apellido a investigar es el GUZMAN, apellido es de mi abuela
> materna, ellos eran de SAN JUAN DE LOS LAGOS, JALISCO, aunque los padres de
> ellos eran de ENCARNACION DE DIAZ, JALISCO y posiblemente los de ellos de
> AGUASCALIENTES.
> El tercer apellido es FLORES, de mi abuelo materno, el vivió en SAN JUAN
> DE LOS LAGOS JALISCO. de el tengo poca información.
> Por ultimo el cuarto apellido es PALOS, es el apellido de mi tatarabuelo
> materno, de el llevo su nombre: José Ángel. el vivio en SAN JUAN DE LOS
> LAGOS, JALISCO. los padres de el venían de OJUELOS, JALISCO y
> posiblemente los de ellos de AGUASCALIENTES.
> De antemano agradezco. sus atenciones, esperando prosperar en este grupo y
> aportar mi granito de arena
> Saludos y gracias!!
>
>
> [
> https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-a…
> ]<
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_ca…;
> Libre de virus. www.avast.com<
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_ca…
> >
Hola, aqui te mando una familia en mis ancestros.
*Maria Ygnacia Ruiz Flores, birth: 10 Nov 1767, Poncitlan Pueblo, Jalisco,
Mexico* y caso con *Jose Antonio Ruiz de Velasco, 27 Feb 1787; *birth
about Abt 1765,
*Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, Mexico*
*Los padres de María Ygnacia: Basilio Ruiz de Velasco y Macías quien
también va con el nombre: Joseph Bacilio Ruis) y Maria Theresa Flores*
Dime si esto te sirve?
On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 7:05 PM Esther Jordan wrote:
> Hola, Jose Angel, y bienvenido a Nuestros Ranchos. Yo tengo familia por
> todo Jalisco, Distrito Federal, Colima, Guadalajara, Guanajuato, Michoacán
> y otros lugares. Muchos de mi familia viven por todo Estados Unidos
> incluyendo Illinois, Michigan, Iowa, Tejas, y todo California, Norte y Sur.
>
> Has hecho la prueba de ADN? Yo tratare de buscar alguna información pero
> también habrá muchos miembros de Nuestros Ranchos que te pueden ayudar.
>
> Yo vivo en California Norte (Ukiah).
>
> Saludos,
>
> Esther Jordan Lopez (y tambien Mendoza)
>
>
> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 4:29 PM angelus Camacho Flores <
> angelus957@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hola, buenas tardes, primero agradecer que me hayan admitido en su grupo.
>> Mi nombre es José ángel camacho flores de igual manera es mi nombre de
>> usuario, mi interés por formar parte de su valioso grupo, es mas que todo.
>> poder averiguar mas de mis antepasados.
>> He hecho algunas investigaciones, y mis areas de interés son las
>> siguientes:
>> Investigar mas sobre el apellido CAMACHO, mis abuelos paternos vivieron
>> en el área de EL RANCHO DE LOS RIOS en JEREZ,ZACATECAS. aunque creo que
>> los abuelos de ellos llegaron de VILLANUEVA, ZACATECAS.(villagutierrez del
>> águila).
>> El segundo apellido a investigar es el GUZMAN, apellido es de mi abuela
>> materna, ellos eran de SAN JUAN DE LOS LAGOS, JALISCO, aunque los padres de
>> ellos eran de ENCARNACION DE DIAZ, JALISCO y posiblemente los de ellos de
>> AGUASCALIENTES.
>> El tercer apellido es FLORES, de mi abuelo materno, el vivió en SAN JUAN
>> DE LOS LAGOS JALISCO. de el tengo poca información.
>> Por ultimo el cuarto apellido es PALOS, es el apellido de mi tatarabuelo
>> materno, de el llevo su nombre: José Ángel. el vivio en SAN JUAN DE LOS
>> LAGOS, JALISCO. los padres de el venían de OJUELOS, JALISCO y
>> posiblemente los de ellos de AGUASCALIENTES.
>> De antemano agradezco. sus atenciones, esperando prosperar en este grupo
>> y aportar mi granito de arena
>> Saludos y gracias!!
>>
>>
>> [
>> https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-a…
>> ]<
>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_ca…;
>> Libre de virus. www.avast.com<
>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_ca…
>> >
Jose Maria Cuellar Valdes was the son of Ygnacio Cuellar and Rosalia Valdes.
Ygnacio Cuellar is the son of Juan Antonio Cuellar and Maria De la Encarnacion Vasquez.
Maria Rosalia Valdes is the daughter of Joseph Raphael Valdez and Maria Rita Magdaleno
The curveball is that this Ygnacio Cuellar and Rosalia Valdez baptized a son also named Jose Maria a few years before the first one was married. They either have two sons of the same name or baptized one son when he was teenager.
Joseph Raphael Valdes
Spouse's Name Maria Rita Magdaleno
Event Date 26 Feb 1776
Event Place Santa Maria De Los Lagos,Lagos De Moreno,Jalisco,Mexico
R.A.Ricci
Thanks for the information, I should send this serch. I am doing one compilation of the branches the Ramirez family in New Spain and New Mexico and the relations between them.
Hola Marcelina,
Aqui te mando mas information para tus investigaciones:
Maria De La Encarnacion Vasquez
mentioned in the record of Juan Antonio De Cuellar and Maria De La Encarnacion Vasquez
Name Juan Antonio De Cuellar
Spouse's Name Maria De La Encarnacion Vasquez
Event Date 27 Nov 1776
Event Place El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico
CITING THIS RECORD
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JHPT-45C : 14 July 2015), Juan Antonio De Cuellar and Maria De La Encarnacion Vasquez, 27 Nov 1776; citing El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 299,830.
Gracias,
R.A.Ricci
Bienvenida Marcelina,
Los padres de Jose Maria de Cuellar fueron Ignacio de Cuellar y Rosalia Valdez. Esta informacion proviene de su partida de matrimonio, la cual podra encontrar en:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-V5SM-8F?i=691
Saludos
Ruben Hernandez
La información que me mandaste me servirá mucho porque la rama de los Cuéllar la tenía "atorada" desde hace varios años. Por otra parte estoy haciendo una compilación de todos los Ramírez, o casi todos los de México pues muchos actuaban agrupados así como los García, a los que dedicaré un parte. El propósito es dar a conocer la interacción que hubo entre las diferentes ramas de los Ramírez y García.
Hello,
I don't have anything on their parents but this records shows her married twice
.
marriage dispensation requested 22 April 1732 n Jerez, Zac
Juan Tadeo del Muro from Villa Gutierre de la Aguila over age 30
said:
Luciano Marquez Espanol from Villa Gutierre de la Aguila living in Buenavista age 23
parents: Juan Diego Marques and Yssabel del Muro
with Anacleta Villaslada Espanola from Viboras age 17
parents: Juan Joseph Villaorlada and Ana Gertrudis Berumes
witness: Juan Angel Antonio Rosales Espanol from Xeres age 25
witness: Alexandro Barela Espanol age 36
witness: Nicolas del Muro Espanol from labor de Santa Gertrudis age 30 who said Luciano and Anacleta are related to him 4th degree
witness: Pedro de la Torre Espanol age 70
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marriage dispensation 4th degree igual
Trunk..Juan Salas and Gertrudis de Avila
Francisca Salas.......1st degree
Gertrudis Muro........2nd degree
Juan Jph Villorlado...3rd degree
Anacleta Villorlado...4th degree
.
Trunk...Pedro Carlos and Gertrudis de Avila
Dorotea Carlos....1st degree
Mariana Felix.....2nd degree
Ysabel Muro...,...3rd degree
Luciano Marques..4th degree
dispensation granted 12 June 1773 in Jerez, Zac
source: 168052 sagrada mitra film
page 773 Familysearch online
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Thank you so much for the answer. I'm going to link this dispensa to the couple.
I found another dispensa that I haven't been able to link is on the SALAS line.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
The dispensa is:
juan fernandez de castro & andrea romero fernandez de salas
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6GS7-CT?i=110&wc=12512…
I know there was a Salas family in Pinos Zacatecas, the family of Pedro de Salas and Juana de Bonilla. But i don't know if Juan de Salas ( married to Gertrudis de Avila) was somehow part of the same family.
Thank you
sus L
I have that also and have not linked them together.
.
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marriage dispensation requested from la Sagrada Mitra 1 April 1707 in Jerez, Zac
Capitan Juan Fernandes de Castro Espanol single from Saen Abajo, Durango Sombrerete
parents: Capitan Don Juan Fernandes de Castro and Dona Ysabel Burgos y Castaneda
with Dona Andrea Romero Fernandes de Salas Espanola single from Jerez age 25
parents: Capitan Blas Romero de la Cuesta and Dona Francisca Fernandes de Salas
.
marriage dispensation 4th degree in 3rd degree
Unknown Salas.......
Pedro Salas..............Diego Salas......1st degree
Jph Salas .................Andrea Salas.....2nd degree
Juana Salas..............Francisca Salas.3rd degree
.....................................Andrea Romero.4th degree
witness: Don Joseph Escaredo Cura de los Saynes, Sombrerete said Capitan Juan Fernandes de Castro living married Juana Salas de Bonilla now deceased but Juana had parentesco de consanguinidad with Dona Francisca de Salas 3rd degree and that means that the Capitan and Andrea are 3rd degree in 4th degree
witness: Capitan Juan Jph Llanos y Baldes Espanol from Jerez said Pedro Salas and Diego Salas were brothers
Pedro was father of Joseph Salas father of Dona Juana Salas wife of Juan Fernandes de Castro
Diego was Father of Andrea Salas parent of Dona Francisca Salas wife of Blas Romero father of Andrea Romero
witness: Gregorio Pacheco Espanol age 25 who said that Juan and Andrea were 4th degree related because el Capitan Juan Fernandes de Castro was married to Dona Juana Salas grandaughter of Pedro Salas gr-grandfather of Andrea. Pedro and Diego were brothers. He said Andrea was prima hermana of his.
witness; Miguel Alvares Quinones Espanol from Jerez age 41 who said Andrea is prima hermana of his wife.His wife was Agueda Pacheco de Salas. He said that Capitan Juan Fernandes de Castro was married to Dona Juana de Salas Granddaughter of Pedro de Salas and Andrea was the Grgranddaughter of Diego de Salas so are related 3rd in 4th degree
dispensation 14 April 17107 in Jerez, Zac
source: 168359 film
page 111 Familysearch online
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I found another dispensa from this family:
Matheo de silva and catalina fernandez film# 167982
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6XSZ-CS?i=336&wc=12512…
This dispensa shows some link with Diego Sanchez de Salas and Agueda Brito (but I don't know much about the couple, and don't know how they are link to Pedro de Salas and Juana de Bonilla, i'm not sure if they are link someway)
I also found this entry:
Fichero 697: 1678-10-19
Espinosa, Felipe Caja: 3 Libro: 8 Foja(s): 168-168v
222. Donación. Zacatecas, 19 de octubre 1678. Pedro de Salas, vecino de la jurisdicción de Montegrande, otorga en favor de Pacheco, su sobrino, de un sitio de estancia que tenía en términos de la Villa de Jerez, bajo el pueblo de los indios de Susticacán Fjs. (168-168v)
- Salas, Pedro
I believe this Pedro de Salas is the one mentioned in the dispensa from film 168359
Also i just reviewed my notes and Pedro de Salas (married to Juana Bonilla) said on 1663 in the marriage information of his son Jose Vicente de Salas y Bonilla with Maria de Zabala that he was "vecino de Montegrande". If this is true then maybe Pedro de Salas (married to Juana Bonilla) is the brother of Diego de Salas (maybe Diego Sanchez de Salas married to Agueda Brito)
Pintura de castas