Dr.mt

Rivas/Quinones ancestry

Published by ayalarobles –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

Hi,

I have traced the ancestry of some of the Rivas of Coahuila and Nuevo Leon to Rivas or de la Riva of Durango and the Quinones of Durango. Antonio Manual and Julian Rivas of Galeana, NL were born in Durango to Pedro Rivas and Maria Quinones who were married in 1723 at San Francisco de Asis, San Juan Del Rio, Durango. The records there only go to the late 1670's. Records for Nazas go to 1690s.

Comentarios

Comentario

I wonder if there are general locations of where the Rivas came from or
"hotbeds" of Rivas' locations in Mexico? I know your Rivas didn't touch
Jalisco but the only info I have is that my Rivas:

Hipolita Caciana Rivas Marquez (my gggg grandmother) - PARENTS: Jose
Maria Rivas (age in census: 78)/Josefa Simona Marquez (age in census:
60) were in the 1817 Jalisco Census in Salto de los Romeros, Jalisco
(close to Santa Maria de los Angeles).

thanks,

joseph

here are some of there children:

JPH. BRUNO RIVAS MARQUEZ Pedigree
25 OCT 1778 San Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico
Father: JPH. MA. RIVAS Family
Mother: SIMONA MARQUEZ
C602864 1768 - 1790 0443674
=================================\\
MARIA BARBARA RIVAS MARQUEZ Pedigree
17 DEC 1783 San Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico
Father: JOSE MARIA RIVAS Family
Mother: SIMONA MARQUEZ
C602864 1768 - 1790 0443674
==================================
JOSE VICTE. SIMON RIBAS MARQUES Pedigree
30 NOV 1791 San Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico
Father: JOSE MARIA RIBAS Family
Mother: JOSEFA MARQUES
C602865 1790 - 1805 0443675
==============================
==============================
MARIA JOSEFA RIBAS Pedigree
30 NOV 1788 Santa Maria De Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico
Father: JOSE MARIA RIBAS Family
Mother: JOSEFA SIMANA
C611041 1785 - 1825 1158273
=====================================
MARIA PAULINA RIVAS Pedigree
Father: JOSSE MARIA RIVAS Family
Mother: SIMONA JOSSEFA MARQUEZ
Spouse: JOSSE MAURICIO DIAS Family
21 JAN 1802 Santa Maria De Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico
M611046 1785 - 1885 1158281
===============================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://H2Opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)

Hi,

I have traced the ancestry of some of the Rivas of Coahuila and Nuevo Leon to Rivas or de la Riva of Durango and the Quinones of Durango. Antonio Manual and Julian Rivas of Galeana, NL were born in Durango to Pedro Rivas and Maria Quinones who were married in 1723 at San Francisco de Asis, San Juan Del Rio, Durango. The records there only go to the late 1670's. Records for Nazas go to 1690s.
Cuencame records go to late 1650's. DOes anyone know if earlier records exist or were earlier records
destroyed? I don't know anything of the history of San Juan Del Rio, DUrango.

Thanks,
--
Esther A. Herold

Comentario

Hi
My Family is from el bajio de Casas Coloradas Zac.
near to Ojocaliente Zac,
In this community the most usually last name is De la Riva
Regards.

Antonio de la Riva

De : general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Para : general@nuestrosranchos.org
Copia :
Fecha : Mon, 18 Jun 2007 17:03:47 +0000
Asunto : Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Rivas/Quinones ancestry

> Hi,
>
> I have traced the ancestry of some of the Rivas of Coahuila and Nuevo Leon to Rivas or de la Riva of Durango and the Quinones of Durango. Antonio Manual and Julian Rivas of Galeana, NL were born in Durango to Pedro Rivas and Maria Quinones who were married in 1723 at San Francisco de Asis, San Juan Del Rio, Durango. The records there only go to the late 1670's. Records for Nazas go to 1690s.
> Cuencame records go to late 1650's. DOes anyone know if earlier records exist or were earlier records
> destroyed? I don't know anything of the history of San Juan Del Rio, DUrango.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Esther A. Herold
>
>
> -------------- Original message from MBLOPEZ : --------------
>
>
> >
> > I recently learned that my mother's family came from Degollado, not La Barca as
> > previously thought. Many members here have been helpful and supportive in the
> > past so I wanted to post this update and hope for some possible links. The names
> > I am now "researching" are: Bravo, Tinoco, Rizo, Ponce, Santana. These surnames
> > are all on my mother's side and in the Degollado area mid to late 1800's.
> > Many Thanks,
> > Michael Lopez Bravo
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Howling like a mariachi singer

Published by Corrine Ardoin –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

That's a good story. I remember my dad (a white German) howling, too, when
the mariachis would sing and play at our church fiestas. He may have had a
beer or two, but he would let out that characteristic howl, can't put it

Comentarios

Published by Paula Wakefield (no verificado) – Vie, 2007-06-15 08:19 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

The sound is called 'hollaring'.It is a form of communication used by Spaniards, French, Swiss and some Italians--that live in the Pirennes Mtns. to this day. It was used to reach neighbors in times of danger, to warn of danger, all the way to 'let's party' Each 'hollar' has a different set of notes. The custom was brought of by the first Spaniards in the 16th century.There are still hollaring contests in the U.S. whereever there is a group of Basques North Carolina being the most popular.
My parents were Basque-when daddy was partying--the hollars where heard all over town.
Paula

Comentario

this is very interesting. I'm also the webmaster of the
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com podcast project. If you or someone you
know would like to give a little of the history and possibly sing some
of these songs I think it would make a great podcast. It would be as
simple as me calling you or that person and recording the speakers end
of the conversation.

what do you think? If you know anyone at the Basque University in Nevada
maybe they have someone there that could do the history part or maybe
even the singing. Would appreciate it if you looked into it.

joseph

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://H2Opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)

Paula Wakefield wrote:
> The sound is called 'hollaring'.It is a form of communication used by Spaniards, French, Swiss and some Italians--that live in the Pirennes Mtns. to this day. It was used to reach neighbors in times of danger, to warn of danger, all the way to 'let's party' Each 'hollar' has a different set of notes. The custom was brought of by the first Spaniards in the 16th century.There are still hollaring contests in the U.S. whereever there is a group of Basques North Carolina being the most popular.
> My parents were Basque-when daddy was partying--the hollars where heard all over town.
> Paula

Latin In Church Records

Published by Corrine Ardoin –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I wanted to thank everyone for helping me with those translations. I
realize more and more how important it is to go beyond literal
translations. Learning the history not only brings into the equation the

Regional meetings

Published by nc_coleman –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I am aware that the Northern California (NorCal) group had a meeting in March, but don't remember seeing a follow-up report - did I miss it? where would I find it?
Are there any other regional meetings being planned this year ... just in case I might be in your area at the same time as a planned meeting - I'd like to join in, if possible. Just trying to plan ahead ; - )

Indian Paintings from Welester Alvarado

Published by makas_nc –

Sorry it took so long Welester, but I have finally uploaded the pictures
I was suppose to upload back in early May.

these pictures are fabulous and everyone should see what our ancestors
were up to many many hundreds of years ago:

petroglyphs - Joseph

Published by Welester –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

Hi Joseph ,

Glad you liked them and I'm sure the members will like them as well . I will try and get fotos of the petroglyphs , they show a lot of creativity .

Welester
> > Sorry it took so long Welester, but I have finally uploaded the pictures > I was suppose to upload back in early May.> > these pictures are fabulous and everyone should see what our ancestors > were up to many many hundreds of years ago:> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/16075> > joseph>

Latin in Marriage Record and veiling ceremony

Published by conrique –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Victoriano,

I can think of various translations of the verb "velar."
1.- [common] To stay awake, not to sleep; even as when "working the 'third
shift.' "
2.- [religion] To keep vigil. As in Rosaries and accompanying the body

Comentarios

Comentario

Efrain, et al:

The velacion refered to in the documents does not really fall within any of the vernacular definitions of velacion in Spanish... perhaps the closest such definition would be number 3. The term comes from the Latin velatio nuptialis, which was a ceremony that until recent times was completely seperate from the actual marriage ceremony. It often took place weeks or months after the casamiento. Old marriage records often have seperate records of a "velacion" months after the "desposamiento"

Probably we shall be right in assuming that the first effort everywhere made by the Church to impart a religious character to the contract of marriage was by requiring or urging the married pair to be present at a special Nuptial Mass. The Mass itself constitutes the highest form of consecration and the available evidence points strongly to the conclusion that in such very different matters as the dedication of a church or the burial of the dead, the Christians of the first few centuries had no special ritual adapted for such occasions but were content to offer the holy Sacrifice with appropriate collects. Looking at our actual Nuptial Mass which has retained the essential features of that found in the Sacramentary ascribed to St. Leo, the earliest collection preserved to us of Roman origin, we find that the prayers themselves constitute a blessing of the married pair while the eucharistic benediction which is headed "Velatio nuptialis" is in effect a consecration of the bride alone to the estate of marriage, a point of view which vividly recalls the Roman conception of matrimony as the veiling of the woman for the special behoof of her husband. This velatio nuptialis spread in slightly varying forms to every part of Western Christendom which received the Roman Mass Book. Down to the present day the same nuptial benediction, specially devoted to the bride and introduced at an unwonted position (immediately after the Pater Noster of the Mass), remains the highest form of sanction which the Church can give to the union of man and woman. By a law of ancient date which is still in force, this special benediction is withheld in all cases in which the bride has been previously mated. Further, though in the early Middle Ages the Nuptial Mass seems sometimes to have been celebrated on the day after the first cohabitation of the pair (see Friedberg, "Eheschliessung", 82-84 and Sohm, "Recht der Eheschliessung", 159), these solemnities seem always to have been associated with the marriage itself as distinct from the espousals.

Comentario

According to my mother, in modern "Mexican" weddings, there are "padrinos de velación." They stand on either side of the bride and groom and are normally a long-time married couple and the main "padrinos." They are are to set an example for the newly married couple. They're supposed to bare testimony that the couple has not been previously married by the Church, etc., etc., etc...Either the "velación" came from the padrinos "watching over" the new couple, or maybe they were the ones to lift the veil as someone previously explained...

arturoramos wrote:

Efrain, et al:

The velacion refered to in the documents does not really fall within any of the vernacular definitions of velacion in Spanish... perhaps the closest such definition would be number 3. The term comes from the Latin velatio nuptialis, which was a ceremony that until recent times was completely seperate from the actual marriage ceremony. It often took place weeks or months after the casamiento. Old marriage records often have seperate records of a "velacion" months after the "desposamiento"

Probably we shall be right in assuming that the first effort everywhere made by the Church to impart a religious character to the contract of marriage was by requiring or urging the married pair to be present at a special Nuptial Mass. The Mass itself constitutes the highest form of consecration and the available evidence points strongly to the conclusion that in such very different matters as the dedication of a church or the burial of the dead, the Christians of the first few centuries had no special ritual adapted for such occasions but were content to offer the holy Sacrifice with appropriate collects. Looking at our actual Nuptial Mass which has retained the essential features of that found in the Sacramentary ascribed to St. Leo, the earliest collection preserved to us of Roman origin, we find that the prayers themselves constitute a blessing of the married pair while the eucharistic benediction which is headed "Velatio nuptialis" is in effect a consecration of the
brid
e alone
to the estate of marriage, a point of view which vividly recalls the Roman conception of matrimony as the veiling of the woman for the special behoof of her husband. This velatio nuptialis spread in slightly varying forms to every part of Western Christendom which received the Roman Mass Book. Down to the present day the same nuptial benediction, specially devoted to the bride and introduced at an unwonted position (immediately after the Pater Noster of the Mass), remains the highest form of sanction which the Church can give to the union of man and woman. By a law of ancient date which is still in force, this special benediction is withheld in all cases in which the bride has been previously mated. Further, though in the early Middle Ages the Nuptial Mass seems sometimes to have been celebrated on the day after the first cohabitation of the pair (see Friedberg, "Eheschliessung", 82-84 and Sohm, "Recht der Eheschliessung", 159), these solemnities seem always to have been ass
ociated
with the marriage itself as distinct from the espousals.

Comentario

Arturo, Efrain, et al

Just for the heck of it I consulted my old copy of the Real Academia's dictionary. Their entry for 'velacion' is: (Del Latin 'velatio, velationis', accion de tomar el velo.) Ceremonia instituida por la Iglesia catolica para dar solemnidad al matrimonio, y que consiste en cubrir con un velo a los conyuges en la misa nupcial que se celebra, por lo comun, inmediatamente despues del casamiento." This is essentially what Arturo said in English below.

David, Albany, CA

-----Original Message-----
>From: arturoramos
>Sent: Jun 13, 2007 4:18 PM
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Latin in Marriage Record and veiling ceremony
>
>
>Efrain, et al:
>
>The velacion refered to in the documents does not really fall within any of the vernacular definitions of velacion in Spanish... perhaps the closest such definition would be number 3. The term comes from the Latin velatio nuptialis, which was a ceremony that until recent times was completely seperate from the actual marriage ceremony. It often took place weeks or months after the casamiento. Old marriage records often have seperate records of a "velacion" months after the "desposamiento"
>
>Probably we shall be right in assuming that the first effort everywhere made by the Church to impart a religious character to the contract of marriage was by requiring or urging the married pair to be present at a special Nuptial Mass...

Latin in Marriage Record

Published by Corrine Ardoin –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I had some difficulty translating a couple of phrases found in parish
marriage records. I discovered they are Latin phrases that seem to be
terms used in parish documents that have specific meaning. I found some of

Comentarios

Published by victorianonavarro (no verificado) – Mar, 2007-06-12 20:16 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

A non literal translation could be:
"After doing all I was supposed to do according to the Catholic rites, I marry and watch over before the Church (or in the front part of the building, as conrique says) these persons..."
Or:
"after the formalities and examination of the christian doctrine I marry and I watch over before the Church, this guy and his bride...."
Regards,
VN

Comentario

The actual Latin phrase is "in facie ecclesiae". The word 'facie' refers to the 'face'. The Spanish word "faz" is derived from this word. "Ecclesiae" means 'congregation in Latin. It doesn't really refer to the building, church. Literally the phrase means "in the face of the congregation". The requirement was for the entire group of the faithful to be informed of the marriage. This would minimize the chance of an invalid marriage. I agree with Efrain's excellent translation of the rest.

David in Albany

-----Original Message-----
>From: Efrain Conrique
>Sent: Jun 12, 2007 7:33 PM
>To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Latin in Marriage Record
>
>Corrine,
>
>in fasie eclesia = in front of the church. (The custom being for 'public'
>announcements to happen at the entrance or the front steps [when there were
>steps] of the church). I am reminded of this custom when, in California, I
>see a foreclosure sale of real estate performed/announced in the front
>steps of the court.
>
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Corrine Ardoin
>> To:
>> Date: 6/12/2007 5:02:56 PM
>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Latin in Marriage Record
>>
>> I had some difficulty translating a couple of phrases found in parish
>> marriage records. I discovered they are Latin phrases that seem to be
>> terms used in parish documents that have specific meaning. I found some
> of them in a law dictionary. One of these phrases is "in fasie eclesia." In
>> fasie, in the law dictionary, means "in the presence of," so the term, I
>> concluded, since "eclesia" refers to the church, would translate as "in
> the presence of the church."

David P. Delgado

Comentario

Corrine,

in fasie eclesia = in front of the church. (The custom being for 'public'
announcements to happen at the entrance or the front steps [when there were
steps] of the church). I am reminded of this custom when, in California, I
see a foreclosure sale of real estate performed/announced in the front
steps of the court.

inter missarum solemnia = during solemn Mass. (The Council of Trent decreed
in 1533 that, before performing a marriage, the proper curate proclaim
three times, on three following feast days, in the church, while
celebrating Grand Mass [inter missarium solemnia], who the persons were to
(contraer matrimonio) contract for marriage.

As to your last paragraph: ---
.... previously having performed the customary measures (or to take the
necessary steps) and examination about Christian doctrine ... cas

Another Newbie

Published by ltechmeyer –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

Being new to this group, I am somewhat hesistant to post anything and, thereby, annoy the membership! However, it doesn't make any sense to join and then sit back and wait...Anyway, I can find no more info on my great-grandparents and thought someone here might have some suggestions on how to find something when the information is so sparse. So, here goes...

Comentarios

Comentario

Welcome to the group.
I have two questions regarding your research so far:
1) What are your genealogical GOALS? - WHAT do you want to know?
2) What VITAL records/documents have you collected to suport your family tree? In cases of the collection of oral history, did you remember to document from whom information was gathered (and when)?

Let us know what exactly it is you want to know - maybe we will have suggestions, or maybe you have found all there is to find. Good luck.

Natalie in VA
Researching surnames: CASTRO, DUEÑAS, GARCIA, LOPEZ, MARTINEZ, DURAN
Researching locations in Zacatecas: - jurisdiction of Valparaiso/ Rancho San Mateo, Hacienda del Astillero; jurisdiction of Sain Alto; jurisdiction of Sombrerete

Age of Eighteen Hundred brides

Published by Maureen Bejar –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I have just uncovered an ancestor who was married prior to her 12th birthday in the early eighteen hundreds. My genealogy software keeps giving a warning on this record. It seems many women were married around 15 or 16 years old during this time. This is the first one that was so young, but I know that it happened in Appalacian Mountains even up to the 1900's. I have not ordered the films yet to check for the accuracy and whether this is the right family, but has anyone else run across marriages where the bride was so young?

Comentarios

Comentario

Maureen, the youngest bride I have recorded is 10 years old, the standards were different then.
Linda in B.C.

Maureen Bejar wrote:

I have just uncovered an ancestor who was married prior to her 12th birthday in the early eighteen hundreds. My genealogy software keeps giving a warning on this record. It seems many women were married around 15 or 16 years old during this time. This is the first one that was so young, but I know that it happened in Appalacian Mountains even up to the 1900's. I have not ordered the films yet to check for the accuracy and whether this is the right family, but has anyone else run across marriages where the bride was so young?

Maureen Bejar

Comentario

Thats funny I have my 4th grt grandmother as 11 Years Old. and her husband
18

>From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
>Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Age of Eighteen Hundred brides
>Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 17:25:07 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Maureen, the youngest bride I have recorded is 10 years old, the standards
>were different then.
> Linda in B.C.
>
>Maureen Bejar wrote:
>
>I have just uncovered an ancestor who was married prior to her 12th
>birthday in the early eighteen hundreds. My genealogy software keeps giving
>a warning on this record. It seems many women were married around 15 or 16
>years old during this time. This is the first one that was so young, but I
>know that it happened in Appalacian Mountains even up to the 1900's. I have
>not ordered the films yet to check for the accuracy and whether this is the
>right family, but has anyone else run across marriages where the bride was
>so young?
>
>Maureen Bejar

Comentario

Thank you all for the input on the age of young brides. I feel more confident that I have the right woman. It will be a while yet, but I will eventually order the films to confirm. Thanks again.

Comentario

I am of Portuguese descendency, and my mother was married in Massachusetts USA at the age of 14 in June 1915, she turned 15 in July. My father was 23, they were 1st cousins one generations removed. Mostly likely an arranged marriage. My paternal grandfather was my maternal grandfather's uncle. Same last name.

Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy CA USA

Maureen Bejar wrote:

I have just uncovered an ancestor who was married prior to her 12th birthday in the early eighteen hundreds. My genealogy software keeps giving a warning on this record. It seems many women were married around 15 or 16 years old during this time. This is the first one that was so young, but I know that it happened in Appalacian Mountains even up to the 1900's. I have not ordered the films yet to check for the accuracy and whether this is the right family, but has anyone else run across marriages where the bride was so young?

Maureen Bejar

Comentario

An obscure trivia fact . . .the present age of consent in Japan for women is 13 years old . . . .who woulda thunk it

Patricia Corbera wrote: I am of Portuguese descendency, and my mother was married in Massachusetts USA at the age of 14 in June 1915, she turned 15 in July. My father was 23, they were 1st cousins one generations removed. Mostly likely an arranged marriage. My paternal grandfather was my maternal grandfather's uncle. Same last name.

Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy CA USA

Maureen Bejar wrote:

I have just uncovered an ancestor who was married prior to her 12th birthday in the early eighteen hundreds. My genealogy software keeps giving a warning on this record. It seems many women were married around 15 or 16 years old during this time. This is the first one that was so young, but I know that it happened in Appalacian Mountains even up to the 1900's. I have not ordered the films yet to check for the accuracy and whether this is the right family, but has anyone else run across marriages where the bride was so young?

Maureen Bejar

Comentario

My grandmother Maria was 14 when she married in 1911 in Comal, Texas.
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from robert hernandez : --------------

> An obscure trivia fact . . .the present age of consent in Japan for women is 13
> years old . . . .who woulda thunk it
>
> Patricia Corbera wrote: I am of Portuguese
> descendency, and my mother was married in Massachusetts USA at the age of 14 in
> June 1915, she turned 15 in July. My father was 23, they were 1st cousins one
> generations removed. Mostly likely an arranged marriage. My paternal grandfather
> was my maternal grandfather's uncle. Same last name.
>
> Pat Silva Corbera
> Tracy CA USA
>
> Maureen Bejar wrote:
>
> I have just uncovered an ancestor who was married prior to her 12th birthday in
> the early eighteen hundreds. My genealogy software keeps giving a warning on
> this record. It seems many women were married around 15 or 16 years old during
> this time. This is the first one that was so young, but I know that it happened
> in Appalacian Mountains even up to the 1900's. I have not ordered the films yet
> to check for the accuracy and whether this is the right family, but has anyone
> else run across marriages where the bride was so young?
>
> Maureen Bejar

Comentario

Esther, how wonderful to see you out and about.again. I had a cuz who married at 13 in 1950 Nebr. and aunt who married at 13 in 1940 Texas. I think it's Colo. who still has a really low age ( 15) with consent for girls to marry today. I have a genealogy line full of really young women getting married. I have noticed 2nd, 3rd and 4th wives always stayed the same age ( 14/16) while the husbands got older. I believe it went something like this--girls mensus started on Tue. she was married on Fri., had a slew of kids, died and the hubby found another really young wife to watch those children and have another bunch. Sometimes this went on for up to 4 wives. I also have an ancestor who did not die but she was pregnant for a total of 22 yrs..
Paula
----- Original Message -----
From: eaherold@att.net
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 2:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Age of Eighteen Hundred brides

My grandmother Maria was 14 when she married in 1911 in Comal, Texas.
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from robert hernandez >: --------------

> An obscure trivia fact . . .the present age of consent in Japan for women is 13
> years old . . . .who woulda thunk it
>
> Patricia Corbera wrote: I am of Portuguese
> descendency, and my mother was married in Massachusetts USA at the age of 14 in
> June 1915, she turned 15 in July. My father was 23, they were 1st cousins one
> generations removed. Mostly likely an arranged marriage. My paternal grandfather
> was my maternal grandfather's uncle. Same last name.
>
> Pat Silva Corbera
> Tracy CA USA
>
> Maureen Bejar wrote:
>
> I have just uncovered an ancestor who was married prior to her 12th birthday in
> the early eighteen hundreds. My genealogy software keeps giving a warning on
> this record. It seems many women were married around 15 or 16 years old during
> this time. This is the first one that was so young, but I know that it happened
> in Appalacian Mountains even up to the 1900's. I have not ordered the films yet
> to check for the accuracy and whether this is the right family, but has anyone
> else run across marriages where the bride was so young?
>
> Maureen Bejar

Comentario

By contrast, my Mexican grandmother was in her mid-twenties when she
married. Marge:)
On Jun 7, 2007, at 2:21 AM, eaherold@att.net wrote:

> My grandmother Maria was 14 when she married in 1911 in Comal, Texas.
> --
> Esther A. Herold
>
>
> -------------- Original message from robert hernandez
> : --------------
>
>
>> An obscure trivia fact . . .the present age of consent in Japan for
>> women is 13
>> years old . . . .who woulda thunk it
>>
>> Patricia Corbera wrote: I am of Portuguese
>> descendency, and my mother was married in Massachusetts USA at the
>> age of 14 in
>> June 1915, she turned 15 in July. My father was 23, they were 1st
>> cousins one
>> generations removed. Mostly likely an arranged marriage. My paternal
>> grandfather
>> was my maternal grandfather's uncle. Same last name.
>>
>> Pat Silva Corbera
>> Tracy CA USA
>>
>> Maureen Bejar wrote:
>>
>> I have just uncovered an ancestor who was married prior to her 12th
>> birthday in
>> the early eighteen hundreds. My genealogy software keeps giving a
>> warning on
>> this record. It seems many women were married around 15 or 16 years
>> old during
>> this time. This is the first one that was so young, but I know that
>> it happened
>> in Appalacian Mountains even up to the 1900's. I have not ordered the
>> films yet
>> to check for the accuracy and whether this is the right family, but
>> has anyone
>> else run across marriages where the bride was so young?
>>
>> Maureen Bejar

Comentario

My grandmother Paula was 13 when she married my grandfather. I still don't
know where, but I think it was either in San Diego or somewhere in Phoenix
Arizona. Her natural father died and stepmother married her off.....the
year was 1926.....

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org]On Behalf Of
eaherold@att.net
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 12:21 AM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Age of Eighteen Hundred brides

My grandmother Maria was 14 when she married in 1911 in Comal, Texas.
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from robert hernandez
: --------------

> An obscure trivia fact . . .the present age of consent in Japan for women
is 13
> years old . . . .who woulda thunk it
>
> Patricia Corbera wrote: I am of Portuguese
> descendency, and my mother was married in Massachusetts USA at the age of
14 in
> June 1915, she turned 15 in July. My father was 23, they were 1st cousins
one
> generations removed. Mostly likely an arranged marriage. My paternal
grandfather
> was my maternal grandfather's uncle. Same last name.
>
> Pat Silva Corbera
> Tracy CA USA
>
> Maureen Bejar wrote:
>
> I have just uncovered an ancestor who was married prior to her 12th
birthday in
> the early eighteen hundreds. My genealogy software keeps giving a warning
on
> this record. It seems many women were married around 15 or 16 years old
during
> this time. This is the first one that was so young, but I know that it
happened
> in Appalacian Mountains even up to the 1900's. I have not ordered the
films yet
> to check for the accuracy and whether this is the right family, but has
anyone
> else run across marriages where the bride was so young?
>
> Maureen Bejar

Diaz de Tiscareno

Published by mendezdetorres –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Does anyone know anything about this Family in aguascalientes. I had a Diaz line in Jalisco which eventually made it self back to Aguascalientes into the compund surname diaz de tiscareno:

HEre is my information

Comentarios

Comentario

Hola! I just found a Maria Velasco Tiscareno in IGI film 1553543 batch #
5012006 sheet 23 her birth is 1784 Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico.
Hope you have any luck. Pilar
----- Original Message -----
From: "mormonboy74"
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 2:19 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Diaz de Tiscareno

>
> Does anyone know anything about this Family in aguascalientes. I had a
> Diaz line in Jalisco which eventually made it self back to Aguascalientes
> into the compund surname diaz de tiscareno:
>
> HEre is my information
>
> Nicolas Diaz de Tiscareno
>
> Born ca. 1703 in Villa de Aguascalientes

De la Torre Berumen book on Tepetongo

Published by ayalarobles –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Joseph,

Do you have a Gregorio RObles somewhere in there circa 1670 +/- 20 years. I believe my Gregorio might have come from Tepetongo, Zac to Saltillo. He married a Maria Sanchez. I have no clue where he was from. I believe Jalisco or Sombrette are other possibilities.

Comentarios

Comentario

Sorry I can't do requests. The charts are so user unfriendly that I
don't have the time to do a line by line by line search of them for you.
Sorry.

joseph

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://H2Opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)

eaherold@att.net wrote:
> Joseph,
>
> Do you have a Gregorio RObles somewhere in there circa 1670 +/- 20 years. I believe my Gregorio might have come from Tepetongo, Zac to Saltillo. He married a Maria Sanchez. I have no clue where he was from. I believe Jalisco or Sombrette are other possibilities.
>
>
> Esther A. Herold
>
>
> -------------- Original message from Joseph Puentes : --------------
>
>
>
>> Well the genealogies he covers in depth are: De la Torre, Robles,
>> Correa, Sanchez, Nava, Gonzalez, Murillo, Carols, Rodriguez, Mejia,
>> Zuniga, and Salazar. Not Gutierrez. I went through and tried to find
>> Maria Ignacia de la Torre (1780) but the genealogies are very very very
>> user unfriendly and it would take a major research session (maybe a few
>> days worth) to search each page. Sorry,
>>
>> joseph
>>
>> ====================
>>
>> Joseph Puentes
>> http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
>> http://H2Opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
>> http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
>>
>>
>>
>> Erlinda Castanon-Long wrote:
>>
>>> I'm wondering if someone can do a look up for me in the book by Mr. De la
>>>
>> Torre Berumen on Tepetongo. I'm trying to find ancestors or other family
>> members for this Gutierrez family in Tepetongo and Jerez. I had this book but
>> sold it to a group member, thanks in advance.
>>
>>> Linda in Everett
>>>
>>> 1 Vicente Gutierrez 1777 - b: Abt. 1777 in El Salitre, Tepetongo
>>> . +Maria Ignacia de la Torre 1780 - b: Abt. 1780 in Tepetongo, Zac
>>> ........ 2 Domingo Gutierrez 1802 - b: Abt. 1802 in El Salitre, Tepetongo
>>> ............ +Guadalupe Oyarzabal 1805 - b: Abt. 1805 in Jerez, Zac ? Father:
>>>
>> Jose don Oyarzabal Mother: Clara doña Miranda de
>>
>>> ................... 3 Guadalupe Gutierrez 1830 - b: 24 Dec 1830 in Salitre,
>>>
>> Zac
>>
>>> ................... 3 Anastasio de Jesus Gutierrez 1839 - b: 27 Apr 1839 in
>>>
>> Salitre, Zac
>>
>>> ................... 3 Francisco Gutierrez 1832 - b: Abt. 1832 in El Salitre,
>>>
>> Tepetongo
>>
>>> ....................... +Dolores de la Torre Valdez 1835 - b: Abt. 1835 in
>>>
>> Jerez, Zac ?
>>
>>> ............................. 4 Ambrosio Gutierrez 1878 - b: 07 Dec 1878 in
>>>
>> El Salitre, Tepetongo
>>
>>> ................... 3 Jose Gutierrez 1845 - b: Abt. 1845 in Mexico
>>> ....................... +Maria doña de la Torre Valdez 1848 - b: 27 Jan 1848
>>>
>> in Salitre, Tepetongo
>>
>>> ............................. 4 Catalina doña Gutierrez de la Torre 1870 -
>>>
>> b: Abt. 1870 in Jerez, Zac
>>
>>> ---------------------------------
>>> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
>>> Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>
>>> To post, send email to:
>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>
>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

Comentario

Joseph,

What is the name of the book, and what dates does it cover? Where did you get the book?

Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Puentes
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] De la Torre Berumen book on Tepetongo

Sorry I can't do requests. The charts are so user unfriendly that I
don't have the time to do a line by line by line search of them for you.
Sorry.

joseph

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://H2Opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)

eaherold@att.net wrote:
> Joseph,
>
> Do you have a Gregorio RObles somewhere in there circa 1670 +/- 20 years. I believe my Gregorio might have come from Tepetongo, Zac to Saltillo. He married a Maria Sanchez. I have no clue where he was from. I believe Jalisco or Sombrette are other possibilities.
>
>
> Esther A. Herold
>
>
> -------------- Original message from Joseph Puentes >: --------------
>
>
>
>> Well the genealogies he covers in depth are: De la Torre, Robles,
>> Correa, Sanchez, Nava, Gonzalez, Murillo, Carols, Rodriguez, Mejia,
>> Zuniga, and Salazar. Not Gutierrez. I went through and tried to find
>> Maria Ignacia de la Torre (1780) but the genealogies are very very very
>> user unfriendly and it would take a major research session (maybe a few
>> days worth) to search each page. Sorry,
>>
>> joseph
>>
>> ====================
>>
>> Joseph Puentes
>> http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
>> http://H2Opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
>> http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
>>
>>
>>
>> Erlinda Castanon-Long wrote:
>>
>>> I'm wondering if someone can do a look up for me in the book by Mr. De la
>>>
>> Torre Berumen on Tepetongo. I'm trying to find ancestors or other family
>> members for this Gutierrez family in Tepetongo and Jerez. I had this book but
>> sold it to a group member, thanks in advance.
>>
>>> Linda in Everett
>>>
>>> 1 Vicente Gutierrez 1777 - b: Abt. 1777 in El Salitre, Tepetongo
>>> . +Maria Ignacia de la Torre 1780 - b: Abt. 1780 in Tepetongo, Zac
>>> ........ 2 Domingo Gutierrez 1802 - b: Abt. 1802 in El Salitre, Tepetongo
>>> ............ +Guadalupe Oyarzabal 1805 - b: Abt. 1805 in Jerez, Zac ? Father:
>>>
>> Jose don Oyarzabal Mother: Clara doña Miranda de
>>
>>> ................... 3 Guadalupe Gutierrez 1830 - b: 24 Dec 1830 in Salitre,
>>>
>> Zac
>>
>>> ................... 3 Anastasio de Jesus Gutierrez 1839 - b: 27 Apr 1839 in
>>>
>> Salitre, Zac
>>
>>> ................... 3 Francisco Gutierrez 1832 - b: Abt. 1832 in El Salitre,
>>>
>> Tepetongo
>>
>>> ....................... +Dolores de la Torre Valdez 1835 - b: Abt. 1835 in
>>>
>> Jerez, Zac ?
>>
>>> ............................. 4 Ambrosio Gutierrez 1878 - b: 07 Dec 1878 in
>>>
>> El Salitre, Tepetongo
>>
>>> ................... 3 Jose Gutierrez 1845 - b: Abt. 1845 in Mexico
>>> ....................... +Maria doña de la Torre Valdez 1848 - b: 27 Jan 1848
>>>
>> in Salitre, Tepetongo
>>
>>> ............................. 4 Catalina doña Gutierrez de la Torre 1870 -
>>>
>> b: Abt. 1870 in Jerez, Zac
>>
>>> ---------------------------------
>>> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
>>> Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>
>>> To post, send email to:
>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>
>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

Comentario

you wrote:
Well the genealogies he covers in depth are: De la Torre, Robles,Correa,
Sanchez, Nava, Gonzalez, Murillo, Carols, Rodriguez, Mejia,Zuniga, and
Salazar. Not Gutierrez. I went through and tried to find Maria Ignacia de
la Torre (1780) but the genealogies are very very very user unfriendly
and it would take a major research session (maybe a few days worth) to
search each page.

Where can I find this book to purchase? I am interested to research: De la
Torre & Carlos.

Sylvia H Corona

Comentario

sorry don't know where to order. others might be able to comment

joseph

----- Original Message -----
From: Sylvia Corona/Rcac
Date: Wednesday, June 6, 2007 4:49 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] De la Torre Berumen book on Tepetongo
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org

>
>
>
>
> you wrote:
> Well the genealogies he covers in depth are: De la Torre,
> Robles,Correa, Sanchez, Nava, Gonzalez, Murillo, Carols,
> Rodriguez, Mejia,Zuniga, and
> Salazar. Not Gutierrez. I went through and tried to find Maria
> Ignacia de
> la Torre (1780) but the genealogies are very very very user
> unfriendly and it would take a major research session (maybe a
> few days worth) to
> search each page.
>
> Where can I find this book to purchase? I am interested to
> research: De la
> Torre & Carlos.
>
>
> Sylvia H Corona

Comentario

Sylvia, Joseph and others,

"Filigranas, Fundaciones y Genealogias, Tepetongo, Zacatecas" by Jose Leon
Robles de la Torre is indeed very dificult to find.

A small run of it was published in 1999 by Editorial del Norte Mexicano,
Torreon, Coahuila.

But, in the U.S. exemplars of it can be consulted/borrowed through the
Public Libraries of Denver, CO; Dallas, TX; Corpus Christy, TX; and the
Texas A&M University in Kingsville, TX

Hope this helps you.

Efrain
San Diego, California

> [Original Message]
> From:
> To:
> Date: 6/6/2007 5:51:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] De la Torre Berumen book on Tepetongo
>
> sorry don't know where to order. others might be able to comment
>
> joseph
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Sylvia Corona/Rcac
> Date: Wednesday, June 6, 2007 4:49 pm
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] De la Torre Berumen book on Tepetongo
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > you wrote:
> > Well the genealogies he covers in depth are: De la Torre,
> > Robles,Correa, Sanchez, Nava, Gonzalez, Murillo, Carols,
> > Rodriguez, Mejia,Zuniga, and
> > Salazar. Not Gutierrez. I went through and tried to find Maria
> > Ignacia de
> > la Torre (1780) but the genealogies are very very very user
> > unfriendly and it would take a major research session (maybe a
> > few days worth) to
> > search each page.
> >
> > Where can I find this book to purchase? I am interested to
> > research: De la
> > Torre & Carlos.
> >
> >
> > Sylvia H Corona
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

Esparza Source Information

Published by mendezdetorres –
Foros
Genealogy Research

The source I found was published so it must be somewhat true, At least that's what I believe.
This is what the book is called

Enciclopedia de Navarra. Tomo IV. pp. 403-404 ESPARZA

Here is a small part of it in transalation

Comentarios

Comentario

Enciclopedia de Navarra. Tomo IV.
can you describe more this book? where can we find it?
do you have it?
can you tell us what is on the table of content?
can you seek for me: CORONA, CARLOS DE GODOY, GODOY, MICHEL, DE SAN MARTIN?

Thank you

Sylvia H Corona

Comentario

Hi Daniel,

Where did you find the Enciclopedia de Navarra, Tomo IV? Is it available in bookstores or out-of-print? I'd like to have this reference in Spanish and would be greatful if you could scan pages 403-404 and email them to me. I'll send you some comments on this subject as soon as I get some time.

Regards,
Bill Figueroa

Comentario

I got this reference from a nice person at the FHC she said the book was hers and she was also studying the Esparza lineage. She said she got somewhere in the El Paso, Texas area but I dont see her much only occasionally. I sure you can buy it in bookstores.

Family search

Published by Anónimo (no verificado) –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

My name is Paula and I am searching maternal grandparents and back two generations. I am looking for --Castorena/Macias-----Hernandez/ Castorena and Hernandez/Guerra.. The records I have ( all from Mormon Family History site ) show these families in Aguacalientes, Zacatecas and Jalisco. Do these names sound familiar to anyone ?

Comentarios

Comentario

If I well remember, there was don Juan Ignacio Maria de Castorena Ursua
Goyeneche, born in Zacatecas, who published the Gaceta de Mexico in the
early 18th century.
Regards,
Hector Felix Aizcorbe

>From: Paula Wakefield
>Reply-To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
>To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Family search
>Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:51:03 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
> My name is Paula and I am searching maternal grandparents and back two
>generations. I am looking for --Castorena/Macias-----Hernandez/ Castorena
>and Hernandez/Guerra.. The records I have ( all from Mormon Family History
>site ) show these families in Aguacalientes, Zacatecas and Jalisco. Do
>these names sound familiar to anyone ?
> Thank you
>Paula-------ropawa@msn.com

Published by juanita galvan… (no verificado) – Mar, 2007-05-01 15:30 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Paula,

Paula, please be more specific on the GUERRA surname. The GUERRA surname I am familiar and is in my tree is GUERRA-CANAMAR. One VICENTE GUERRA came from JALISCO.That family can be traced f r om Spain, Mexico City, some from Jalisco, Nuevo Leon, Tamaulipas and South TExas.

JUANITA

Paula Wakefield wrote:

My name is Paula and I am searching maternal grandparents and back two generations. I am looking for --Castorena/Macias-----Hernandez/ Castorena and Hernandez/Guerra.. The records I have ( all from Mormon Family History site ) show these families in Aguacalientes, Zacatecas and Jalisco. Do these names sound familiar to anyone ?
Thank you
Paula-------ropawa@msn.com

Published by Paula Wakefield (no verificado) – Mié, 2007-05-02 10:45 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Juanita, I wish I could be more specific--all I know is-that Ramon Hernandez ( my GGgrandfather-maternal ) married Maria Zenobia Guerra--11/10/1834 but in San Felipe, Guanajuato,Mexico and wind up in Sagrario Metropolitano, Guadalajara,Jalisco, Mexico about 1852.
I don't know how close Guanajuato is to Jalisco but my Castorenas are there for the birth of 2 of their children---see below
I also have--
The following childrens parents are-----OCTAVIANO CASTORENA and REFUGIO MACIAS-

MARIA MARCOS Castorena Macias-b.4/25/1853--C.4/26/1853- Sagrario Metropolitano, Guadalajara

FERNANDO-Castorena Macias-b.-5/30/1854---C.-5/31/1854- ( same as above)

TEOFILA Castorena Macias--C.-1/10/1856--------------(same as above)

MARIA VICENTE DE LOS DOLORES--C. 7/20/1857--Santa Fe, Guanajuato, Guanajuato, Mexico

JOSE HIGINIO Castorena Macias--C.1/11/1859--Nuestra Senora de La Soledad, Irapuato, Guanajuato
ANASTACIA Castorena Macias--C.4/26/1862--El Sagrario or Santo Domingo, Zacatecas, Zacatecas

REFUGIO Castorena Macias-( my Ggrandmother) -6/28/1864--Sagrario Metropolitano, Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico ( it is with Refugios' marriage to Hilario Hernandez Guerra that the families merge)

I noticed that Octaviano and his wife start out in Jalisco, go to Guanajuato, Zacatecas and back to Jalisco. Any ideas why ?
Thank you
Paula.
----- Original Message -----
From: juanita delgado
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Family search

Paula,

Paula, please be more specific on the GUERRA surname. The GUERRA surname I am familiar and is in my tree is GUERRA-CANAMAR. One VICENTE GUERRA came from JALISCO.That family can be traced f r om Spain, Mexico City, some from Jalisco, Nuevo Leon, Tamaulipas and South TExas.

JUANITA

Paula Wakefield > wrote:

My name is Paula and I am searching maternal grandparents and back two generations. I am looking for --Castorena/Macias-----Hernandez/ Castorena and Hernandez/Guerra.. The records I have ( all from Mormon Family History site ) show these families in Aguacalientes, Zacatecas and Jalisco. Do these names sound familiar to anyone ?
Thank you
Paula-------ropawa@msn.com

Published by juanita galvan… (no verificado) – Jue, 2007-05-03 14:45 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Paula,

The Guerras I "know" came to NE Mexico during the mid 1700's, but I am sure some Guerras must have stayed, wherever. And you would think that back in those days where transportation modes were pretty limited these people would remain in one place, but I guess people in general have nomadic tendences no matter where. It's all very interesting, and I sure would love to be able to "trace" them in a more specific manner, like "we left this place to go to this other place, and from there, etc. etc., but I am afraid we just have to speculate on a lot of their doings. Happy hunting!

The names you gave are not familiar at all.

Juanita

PaulaJ TRUJILLO wrote:
Juanita, I wish I could be more specific--all I know is-that Ramon Hernandez ( my GGgrandfather-maternal ) married Maria Zenobia Guerra--11/10/1834 but in San Felipe, Guanajuato,Mexico and wind up in Sagrario Metropolitano, Guadalajara,Jalisco, Mexico about 1852.
I don't know how close Guanajuato is to Jalisco but my Castorenas are there for the birth of 2 of their children---see below
I also have--
The following childrens parents are-----OCTAVIANO CASTORENA and REFUGIO MACIAS-

MARIA MARCOS Castorena Macias-b.4/25/1853--C.4/26/1853- Sagrario Metropolitano, Guadalajara

FERNANDO-Castorena Macias-b.-5/30/1854---C.-5/31/1854- ( same as above)

TEOFILA Castorena Macias--C.-1/10/1856--------------(same as above)

MARIA VICENTE DE LOS DOLORES--C. 7/20/1857--Santa Fe, Guanajuato, Guanajuato, Mexico

JOSE HIGINIO Castorena Macias--C.1/11/1859--Nuestra Senora de La Soledad, Irapuato, Guanajuato
ANASTACIA Castorena Macias--C.4/26/1862--El Sagrario or Santo Domingo, Zacatecas, Zacatecas

REFUGIO Castorena Macias-( my Ggrandmother) -6/28/1864--Sagrario Metropolitano, Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico ( it is with Refugios' marriage to Hilario Hernandez Guerra that the families merge)

I noticed that Octaviano and his wife start out in Jalisco, go to Guanajuato, Zacatecas and back to Jalisco. Any ideas why ?
Thank you
Paula.
----- Original Message -----
From: juanita delgado
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Family search

Paula,

Paula, please be more specific on the GUERRA surname. The GUERRA surname I am familiar and is in my tree is GUERRA-CANAMAR. One VICENTE GUERRA came from JALISCO.That family can be traced f r om Spain, Mexico City, some from Jalisco, Nuevo Leon, Tamaulipas and South TExas.

JUANITA

Paula Wakefield > wrote:

My name is Paula and I am searching maternal grandparents and back two generations. I am looking for --Castorena/Macias-----Hernandez/ Castorena and Hernandez/Guerra.. The records I have ( all from Mormon Family History site ) show these families in Aguacalientes, Zacatecas and Jalisco. Do these names sound familiar to anyone ?
Thank you
Paula-------ropawa@msn.com

Published by Paula Wakefield (no verificado) – Jue, 2007-05-03 19:15 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Juanita, at least I come by my wanderlust honestly. My marernal grandmothers' family came over as conquistadors with Onate.Maybe they were gypsys.
Paula

----- Original Message -----
From: juanita delgado
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Family search

Paula,

The Guerras I "know" came to NE Mexico during the mid 1700's, but I am sure some Guerras must have stayed, wherever. And you would think that back in those days where transportation modes were pretty limited these people would remain in one place, but I guess people in general have nomadic tendences no matter where. It's all very interesting, and I sure would love to be able to "trace" them in a more specific manner, like "we left this place to go to this other place, and from there, etc. etc., but I am afraid we just have to speculate on a lot of their doings. Happy hunting!

The names you gave are not familiar at all.

Juanita

PaulaJ TRUJILLO > wrote:
Juanita, I wish I could be more specific--all I know is-that Ramon Hernandez ( my GGgrandfather-maternal ) married Maria Zenobia Guerra--11/10/1834 but in San Felipe, Guanajuato,Mexico and wind up in Sagrario Metropolitano, Guadalajara,Jalisco, Mexico about 1852.
I don't know how close Guanajuato is to Jalisco but my Castorenas are there for the birth of 2 of their children---see below
I also have--
The following childrens parents are-----OCTAVIANO CASTORENA and REFUGIO MACIAS-

MARIA MARCOS Castorena Macias-b.4/25/1853--C.4/26/1853- Sagrario Metropolitano, Guadalajara

FERNANDO-Castorena Macias-b.-5/30/1854---C.-5/31/1854- ( same as above)

TEOFILA Castorena Macias--C.-1/10/1856--------------(same as above)

MARIA VICENTE DE LOS DOLORES--C. 7/20/1857--Santa Fe, Guanajuato, Guanajuato, Mexico

JOSE HIGINIO Castorena Macias--C.1/11/1859--Nuestra Senora de La Soledad, Irapuato, Guanajuato
ANASTACIA Castorena Macias--C.4/26/1862--El Sagrario or Santo Domingo, Zacatecas, Zacatecas

REFUGIO Castorena Macias-( my Ggrandmother) -6/28/1864--Sagrario Metropolitano, Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico ( it is with Refugios' marriage to Hilario Hernandez Guerra that the families merge)

I noticed that Octaviano and his wife start out in Jalisco, go to Guanajuato, Zacatecas and back to Jalisco. Any ideas why ?
Thank you
Paula.
----- Original Message -----
From: juanita delgado
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Family search

Paula,

Paula, please be more specific on the GUERRA surname. The GUERRA surname I am familiar and is in my tree is GUERRA-CANAMAR. One VICENTE GUERRA came from JALISCO.That family can be traced f r om Spain, Mexico City, some from Jalisco, Nuevo Leon, Tamaulipas and South TExas.

JUANITA

Paula Wakefield > wrote:

My name is Paula and I am searching maternal grandparents and back two generations. I am looking for --Castorena/Macias-----Hernandez/ Castorena and Hernandez/Guerra.. The records I have ( all from Mormon Family History site ) show these families in Aguacalientes, Zacatecas and Jalisco. Do these names sound familiar to anyone ?
Thank you
Paula-------ropawa@msn.com

Comentario

I just want to add that Guanajuato and Zacatecas have a lot in common.
Specially the city of Guanajuato, that it was a miner city same as Jerez
and other cities in Zacatecas.
I can respond that the reason some children were born in Zacatecas and
others in Guanajuato could be that the father must had worked on the mining
industry.

Sylvia H Corona

Comentario

Hi Paula,

The names are very familiar. The Macías have been in the area for nearly
400 years, with thousands of descendants scattered throughout
Aguascalientes, Zacatecas and Jalisco. Castorena is probably a more recent
addition (I did not find any Castorenas in Ags. in the 16th & 17th
centuries) but last year I met a 70 year old gentleman named Jesús Valdés
Marín in Rincón de Romos, Ags. His father's name was Jesús Valdés
Castorena. Apparently, his family has been in the area for at least one
hundred years. Hernández and Guerra are common surnames that have been in
the area for centuries.

Good luck with your research.

Rgds,
Bill Figueroa

Comentario

Bill,
Thank you, while in El Paso last year I learned that a schism occurred in the Castorena family about 1900-and to this day neither side knows anything about their family history. I find that sad--I love learning from whence I come.
Paula
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Figueroa
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 12:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Family search

Hi Paula,

The names are very familiar. The Macías have been in the area for nearly
400 years, with thousands of descendants scattered throughout
Aguascalientes, Zacatecas and Jalisco. Castorena is probably a more recent
addition (I did not find any Castorenas in Ags. in the 16th & 17th
centuries) but last year I met a 70 year old gentleman named Jesús Valdés
Marín in Rincón de Romos, Ags. His father's name was Jesús Valdés
Castorena. Apparently, his family has been in the area for at least one
hundred years. Hernández and Guerra are common surnames that have been in
the area for centuries.

Good luck with your research.

Rgds,
Bill Figueroa

Most Recent Common Ancestor

Published by arturoramos –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

I just ran across this article, which I believe someone had mentioned previously by reference to an article that talked about it. I am a bit of a math nerd so reading the actual article and its modeling assumptions is quite interesting.

Comentarios

Comentario

Arturo:
That was a great article, but I have to admit I scrolled down past the statistical math charts and formulas and read the end part which was fascinating. Thanks for sharing.

PS: I love math, but this was really heavy stuff

Comentario

Maureen,

I am glad that you liked the article. If you look on page 26 of the article you will see there is a map showing what percent of the DNA of a randomly selected Mexican "sim" (simulated person) in 2000 was from what country (square geographical division) 5000 years earlier.

It is interesting to see that the concentration is in Europe and North Africa and only one "country" in the Americas shows more than 0.1 percent. In fact two "countries" in Spain show percentages of more than 10 percent.

This is very contradictory to recent wide-scale DNA sampling that was done in Mexico by the Instituto Nacional de Medicina Genómica.

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/nacion/149089.html

In fact, that study shows that the genes of the Mexican population as a whole are the result of mixing of more than 35 distinctly identified genetic strains originating in places as far as Europe, Asia and Africa. However, 65% of the genetic material is of strains originating in Mexico, or basically Amerindian.

Of course the chart from Rohde's article is explicitly of a "random" Mexican and that random Mexican could easily be the descendant of a recent immigrant from Spain who happened to have a "bit" of Amerindian blood in him but then he would not be very representative of the population as a whole.

Comentario

Dear Arturo:
I finally had a moment to sit down and review page 29 in the Most Recent Common Ancestry and ancestry in medicine. Just wanted to say thanks for pointing out the page on the percentages with that nifty color-coded map and the other medical article. It is important to let everyone know how much your race or make-up thereof is to your medical history. Certain diseases and how the body is treated or reacts to different races or even sexes can mean the difference of life or death. This may be the single most important reason to know your family history. I even have a database in my genealogy software that calculates what percentage of people died from what cause and also the percentage of ages at death.
My husband had a medical emergency this winter. He does not look Hispanic, as he is light-skinned and the only thing that gives his nationality away is his name. He does look American Indian with high cheekbones and the slender facial features similar to what I have seen in the Navajo tribe. We knew through oral family history, that the family may have had Indian ancestors and recently some of the documents I have uncovered points to this. Anyway it was important that the medical personnel knew he was of Hispanic descent as it sometimes makes a difference in what medications which would have better effect or negative effects on the Hispanic population. This is true for all races, so maybe saying I am Irish-American is not such a bad idea after all! We had a debate on this a month or so ago and being just American or American and something else. Eventually we may well intermix, so that there will be only one race and thus no one can point fingers, do racial profiling and discrimination through race may be a thing of the past. Imagine...yes I am a 60's child, can you tell? By the looks of it though, the Hispanics have a jump on the Heinz 57 perfectly blended world!

Parish Record

Published by Corrine Ardoin –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I have found some new names to add to my family tree on my mother's side. I
got them from the parish records for the Santuario de Nuestra Senora de
Guadalupe Catholic church in Guadalajara, Jalisco. Film number is 0038507

Comentarios

Published by juanita galvan… (no verificado) – Lun, 2007-06-04 21:30 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Corrine,

I read with interest all the names you found. Can you tell me exacltly where you got the film numer? I am assuming they are from the LDS records. Did you go into their website or another?

Thanks!

Juanita Delgado

Corrine Ardoin wrote:
I have found some new names to add to my family tree on my mother's side. I
got them from the parish records for the Santuario de Nuestra Senora de
Guadalupe Catholic church in Guadalajara, Jalisco. Film number is 0038507
and they are for marriages 1868-1898.

However, even though the records say they are of "matrimonios," I am having
trouble translating them to determine if they are the actual wedding day
record, or some say "dispensa" and some say "infacie ecclesia."
Nevertheless, here are the records I found to add to my ancestral chart:

Juan Manuel Rodriguez, 27, and Maria Silvestre Robles, 21; October 30, 1870;
groom's parents are Juan Jose Rodriguez and Simona Pancardo, both deceased;
bride's parents are Emigdio Robles and Manuela Rivera, both living, my
great-grandfather, Alberto Martin del Campo's, grandparents, his mother's
parents. Maria Silvestre Robles was his aunt, his mother's sister.

Juan Martin del Campo, 23, and Maria Hilaria Meza, 19; July 16, 1874;
groom's parents are Tomas Martin del Campo, deceased and Nievez Muniz,
living, my great-grandfather, Alberto Martin del Campo's grandparents, his
father's parents. Juan Martin del Campo was his uncle, his father's
brother; the bride's parents are Jesus Meza and Leandra de la Cruz.

Ysmael Martin del Campo, 20, and Rita Robles, 24; February 9, 1875; groom's
parents are Tomas Martin del Campo and Maria Nieves Munis, both deceased;
bride's parents are Emigdio Robles and Manuela Rivera. Ysmael and Rita were
my great-grandfather Alberto's parents.

Corrine Ardoin

Where can i Find her info?

Published by conrique –
Foros
Genealogy Research

David,

Yes, the baseline for inquiry/research for (Toribio and Isabel) birth dates
is 1520 to 1530, and we need to recognize that, this was the very start of
the colonization of the Nueva Espana (Mexico). So, availability of records

avila, euron, gonzalez, robles, elizondo, padilla

Published by carlos alberto… –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

perdon , pero estoy investigando mi arbol genealogico y gran parte de mi familia segun lo que he investigado esta en jalisco y zacatecas pero me atore, si alguien tiene datos que me pudieran ayudar acerca de las siguientes personas se los agradeceria:

Comentarios

Comentario

Seria bueno que enviaras una genealogia representativa, es decir una seccion de arbol familiar que incluya lugares y fechas de lo que tienes y así será más fácil cooperar contigo. ¿escribes en ingles? sería muy bueno tambien. Saludos.

carlos avila escribió: perdon , pero estoy investigando mi arbol genealogico y gran parte de mi familia segun lo que he investigado esta en jalisco y zacatecas pero me atore, si alguien tiene datos que me pudieran ayudar acerca de las siguientes personas se los agradeceria:
gorgonio avila ruiz, guillermina robles gonzalez , eulogio robles, m. jesus gonzalez, serapio avila, m. merced ruiz, estevan euron, , paula padilla, luz lopez, felipa aguilar, pero lo que mas me interesa y es donde tengo menos datos es de luisa gonzalez nacida en 1905 al parecer hija de hilario gonzalez y refugio elizondo, se que hay algo que mi Padre no quizo decir u ocultar en esta rama por lo tal quiero seguir investigando y formar mi arbol de la mejor forma para que mis descendientes lo aprecien.
p.d. han de disculpar por tanto texto, pero me gusta investigar.
GRACIAS POR SU ATENCION.

---------------------------------

Llama gratis a cualquier PC del mundo.
Con una excelente calidad de sonido.
Yahoo! Messenger

Comentario

La genalogia representativa de Carlos Avila se encuentra en http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/16048.

Gracias por ofrecer tu ayuda Leticia.

Carlos, como te comenta Leticia, en la investigacion genealogica los nombres sin fechas ni lugares no son muy untiles. Ya que para investigar toca saber en que acervos buscar y eso va a depender de donde cree uno que vivieron sus ancestros. Ademas va a depender de las fechas ya que el registro civil en Mexico comienza solamente a fines del siglo XIX y antes de eso toca usar registros parroquiales, acervos notariales, etc.

Te sugiero que comiences con busquedas en las bases de datos de los Mormones en http://www.familysearch.org

Buscando rapidamente encontre un registro que podria ser relevante... toca recordar que los registros no siempre estan de acuerdo, i.e. un nombre como Gorgonio puede aparecer como Geronimo.

GUILLERMA ROBLES
Marriages:
Spouse: GERONIMO DE AVILA
Marriage: 09 AUG 1862
El Sagrario Or Santo Domingo, Zacatecas, Zacatecas, Mexico

Parece que esa familia de los Avila Ruiz moraba en Trancoso y Panuco, Zacatecas en los 1830s ya que alli nacieron varios hijos de la pareja de Serapio Avila y Maria Mercedes Ruiz:

1. FELIPE AVILA RUIZ - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 07 MAY 1854 Trancoso, Zacatecas, Mexico
2. MARIA JOSEFA TIMOTEA AVILA RUIZ - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 24 JAN 1836
3. MARIA JOSEFA TIMOTEA AVILA RUIZ - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 06 FEB 1836 San Juan Bautista, Panuco, Zacatecas, Mexico
4. MA. JOSEFA AVILA RUIZ - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 09 FEB 1840 San Juan Bautista, Panuco, Zacatecas, Mexico
5. MARIA DEL REFUGIO AVILA RUIS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 25 MAR 1856 San Juan Bautista, Panuco, Zacatecas, Mexico

Published by arturoramos – Lun, 2007-06-04 08:05 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Carlos:

La pagina de la Iglesia de los Santos de los Ultimos Dias (familysearch.org) no contiene arboles genealogicos completos. Es basicamente una serie de indices de extracciones de libros parroquiales y de hojas de sacramentos que se les otorgan a los ancestros de miembros de la iglesia.

La investigacion genealogica es 90% recopilacion de datos tal como matrimonios y bautismos para poco a poco ir creando su propio arbol genalogico. Luego el otro 10% es encontrar otra persona que comparta un linaje en comun y sea tan amable de compartir sus investigaciones. Pero el 10% que es encontrar arboles ya investigados y organizados no es posible sin el primer 90%.

Te sugiero que uses el vinculo del sito Nuestros Ranchos con la etiqueta de "Rollos" o "Films" en ingles. Busca el municipio cuyos registros quieras revisar y haz click en el boton que diga IGI o VRI en un rollo con fechas apropiadas. Estos son los indices mas importantes para Mexico. Te dara todos los nombres que aparecen en ese rollo. Luego puedes delimitar tu busqueda (haciendo click en "REFINE SEARCH" en la parte superior derecha de la pagina) por apellido o segun el nombre del padre o de la madre y asi ir buscando hermanos de tus ancestros o variaciones en los nombres.

The man who wasn't there

Published by Anónimo (no verificado) –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

Interesting quote from the movie "The man who wasn't there", by the Coen brothers, with Billy Bob Thorton:

I found myself, more and more,
going over to the Abundas's.
It was a routine we fell into

Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza

Published by mendezdetorres –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Does anyone know who Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza is? She would of been born around 1530 in Mexico City. Her father was said to be Diego Hurtado de Mendoza, a Spanish Conquistador, and the grandchild of

Comentarios

Comentario

Daniel,

Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza is in my family tree. She was born Circa 1930 and
married Toribio Hernandez de Arellano about 1588 in Lagos de Moreno,
Jalisco.

Partial issue from this mariage were:
Daughter: - Maria Hurtado de Mendoza, born Circa 1567, and married to
Rodrigo Olivares about 1588 in Lagos de Moreno.
Grand-daughter: Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza, born about 1590, and married to
Gonzalo Ramirez de Arellano about 1607 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.

As to her ascendency, some of the information in my files "suggests" that
she was the daughter of Diego Hurtado de Mendoza but, because of my present
focus on other ancestral lines in my tree, I have not yet had the
time/opportunity to access and read her birth documents to "confirm" this.

I would also be very interested in any additional facts that other members
may contribute.

Saludos,

Efrain Conrique
San Diego, California

> [Original Message]
> From: mormonboy74
> To:
> Date: 6/3/2007 11:23:59 AM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza
>
>
> Does anyone know who Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza is? She would of been born
around 1530 in Mexico City. Her father was said to be Diego Hurtado de
Mendoza, a Spanish Conquistador, and the grandchild of
> Rodrigo Hurtado de Mendoza, the Marquis of Cenete. Other sources said
this is inaccurate and there is no evidence for this. I think many of us on
Ranchos descend from Isabel de Mendoza through the Ruiz de Esparza and
Lopez de Elisalde lines. Is there any Mexico City Records or anything
during that period that could prove this? and find out who she exactly is?
Any assistance is helpful. Thanks. -Daniel Mendez del Camino

Comentario

Hello Efrain, Thanks for your help, I was wondering since I have extra time
where would or where do you think her records would be also that of Toribio Hernandez? Mexico City, or Aguascalientes? since its ca. 1530 it should me Mexico City or in that region.
Daniel Alejandro Mendez del Camino

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