I concur with the voices calling for the end of the political rhetoric on
this site. While I am interested in Latino points of view, this is not the
place for it.
-----Original Message-----
From: mimilozano@somosprimos.com [mailto:mimilozano@somosprimos.com]
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2017 7:39 PM
To: mimilozano@aol.com
Subject: Somos Primos "We are Cousins" S
I agree, if the administrator thinks it is important to post the Somos Primos table of contents, go ahead. But please cut out the comments of the editor, this is not the place for that.
VN
I respectfully disagree with your comments stating that we are trying to change history by taking down some statues. The reason that these statues are being taken down is because to many people they represent racism and hate. Many of these statues should never have been allowed to be put up.
The nuestrosranchos.orgmunity should take down any posts that support divisiveness and racist propaganda.
Rick A. Ricci
If we included representations of the history of all peoples of the United States, the good, bad and ugly, we certainly would be a divided country. This all-inclusive history belongs in Museums, and history books. We must move beyond our painful history and move forward together.
For the malcontents of the world always find ways to glorify the worst in humanity. Those who do not read or understand the complexity of history cling on to these representations and create further chaos and Tragedy in the world.
Removing statues is pointless. It doesn't undue slavery or anything else.
It's a meaningless gesture meant to satisfy the most vocal in society. If
the government, national parks or museums caved to political pressure
there'd be no statues at all. At my alma mater, USC, there are
those trying to change the name of the Trojan mascot because he shares a
similar name to Robert E. Lee's horse. All this does is point to how
nonsensical this whole statue debate has become. The fact is, everyone is
bound to be offended by someone or something in our history. It may start
with certain statues, but it won't end there. I've already heard talk about
the removal of statues dedicated to Washington and Jefferson, because of
their slave-owning past. And, it's not just presidents, people now object
to explorers like Columbus, priests like Junipero Serra, and many others. I
know in Aguascalientes, there are buildings and streets named after my
ancestors, Juan de Montoro and Catalina de Ayala, but have I petitioned the
government of Mexico to remove their names from streets and buildings
because they were slave-owners? Of course not, that would be stupid. And,
it's equally stupid here. It's time people work to build a better future
rather than trying to erase a past that can't be erased.
Paige
Gentle reminder - could we please stick to genealogy related topics on this list?
Thanks,
Rick Fernández
> On Aug 30, 2017, at 2:47 AM, general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:
>
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 08:44:19 -0700 (PDT)
> From: sarod77@hotmail.com
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Whose History?
> Message-ID:
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> If we included representations of the history of all peoples of the United
> States, the good, bad and ugly, we certainly would be a divided country. This
> all-inclusive history belongs in Museums, and history books. We must move
> beyond our painful history and move forward together. For the malcontents of
> the world always find ways to glorify the worst in humanity. Those who do not
> read or understand the complexity of history cling on to these
> representations and create further chaos and Tragedy in the world.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 22:35:57 -0700
> From: Paige Herrera
> To: "general@nuestrosranchos.org"
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Whose History?
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Removing statues is pointless. It doesn't undue slavery or anything else.
> It's a meaningless gesture meant to satisfy the most vocal in society. If
> the government, national parks or museums caved to political pressure
> there'd be no statues at all. At my alma mater, USC, there are
> those trying to change the name of the Trojan mascot because he shares a
> similar name to Robert E. Lee's horse. All this does is point to how
> nonsensical this whole statue debate has become. The fact is, everyone is
> bound to be offended by someone or something in our history. It may start
> with certain statues, but it won't end there. I've already heard talk about
> the removal of statues dedicated to Washington and Jefferson, because of
> their slave-owning past. And, it's not just presidents, people now object
> to explorers like Columbus, priests like Junipero Serra, and many others. I
> know in Aguascalientes, there are buildings and streets named after my
> ancestors, Juan de Montoro and Catalina de Ayala, but have I petitioned the
> government of Mexico to remove their names from streets and buildings
> because they were slave-owners? Of course not, that would be stupid. And,
> it's equally stupid here. It's time people work to build a better future
> rather than trying to erase a past that can't be erased.
>
> Paige
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
Dear primos,
There have been more than a few Somos Primos newsletter containing political rhetoric that I find inappropriate for this forum. While I enjoy some of the monthly content, I am now weary of reading it for the political bombs contained within. If the newsletter has taken the position to push conservative politics than I have to question whether it should be distributed via NR.
As many of you have pointed out, this isn't the place.
I for one will no longer read it.
Best,
maven
I was about to unsubscribe to this site because of political comments on this site.
Amen.
Sent from Mary Anne's iPhone
> On Sep 1, 2017, at 2:53 AM, general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org wrote:
>
> Send General mailing list submissions to
> general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.nuestrosranchos.org/listinfo.cgi/general-nuestrosranchos.o…
>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> general-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> general-owner@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of General digest..."
>
>
> Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
> DAILY DIGEST
> ****************************************
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Spam Topic (Allison Peacock)
> 2. Political Rhetoric Disguised (pavendano@earthlink.net)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 15:55:27 +0000
> From: Allison Peacock
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Spam Topic
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I wholeheartedly agree with Rick. I was ready to unsubscribe yesterday.
> This is not the place for political discourse.
> --
> Allison Peacock
> (512) 694-1600
>
> peacockOMNIMEDIA
> AllisonPeacock.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 21:18:13 -0700 (PDT)
> From: pavendano@earthlink.net
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Political Rhetoric Disguised
> Message-ID:
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> Dear primos, There have been more than a few Somos Primos newsletter
> containing political rhetoric that I find inappropriate for this forum. While
> I enjoy some of the monthly content, I am now weary of reading it for the
> political bombs contained within. If the newsletter has taken the position to
> push conservative politics than I have to question whether it should be
> distributed via NR. As many of you have pointed out, this isn't the place. I
> for one will no longer read it. Best, maven
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
I wholeheartedly agree with Rick. I was ready to unsubscribe yesterday.
This is not the place for political discourse.
--
Allison Peacock
(512) 694-1600
peacockOMNIMEDIA
AllisonPeacock.com
Is there a history book or published paper on the first Spanish families of Zacatecas, Mexico, preferably in English?
A Rodarte branch migrated from Zacatecas to Coahuila around 1860.
Check this out:
http://www.sanbuena.com/Toreros%20Rodarte.pdf
Unfortunately it is in spanish.
Regards,
Bernardo Menchaca
.
I visited upper and lower los Rodartes in 2003 and they still breed bulls for fighting there.
My family came from el Durazno about 3 miles from los Rodartes.
Linda Castanon-Long
this link will take you to my file in Rootsweb.com and I have my first Rodarte as Mateo Rodarte abt 1625 married to Leonor Reyes and part of their descendants did live in Los Rodartes. Mateo and Leonor are my Father Chet Castanon 7th Great Grandparents. I go back to this line 5 times.
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=REG&db=mexico&id=I94…
from this link you can also click on index to find all the Rodarte I have in my files since I don't know who you descend from
Erlinda Castanon-Long
longsjourney@yahoo.com
Hola Anna:
Hay un libro en línea (online) LLamado Nuestros Antepasados (our Ancestors) Los Nuevos mexicanos del condado de Lincoln, por Ernest Sánchez y Paul R. Sánchez en que se menciona a un Miguel Rodarte de Sombrerete, Zacatecas cuya hija emigró a Nuevo México. No tiene los números de página.
Saludos
Marcelina
Thank you for your quick response. I will check out this book. Anna
I have a pdf file of "Fundadores de Zacatecas" from two different books that I can send to you and they discuss early Spanish settlers. Send me your email and ask for it and I'll send.
The charts are from: José Ignacio Dávila Garibi, “La sociedad de Zacatecas en los albores del régimen colonial, actuación de los principales fundadores y primeros funcionarios públicos de la ciudad” (1939: 132 pages and 16 genealogical tables)
Other copies of pages are from: Juan J. Zaldívar Ortega, “Zacatecanos y vascos: Tomo I” (1999: Fondo de Cultura Zacatecana, 128 pages).
They consist of selected pages, not the entire books.
Anyone familiar with ambrotype photography that was suppose to be used during mid 1800's? Is there a collection or database of photos there?
Anyone familiar with ambrotype photography that was suppose to be used during mid 1800's? Is there a collection or database of photos there?
Hi Primos,
I too descend from the Suazo de Carmona family.
I descend from Maria Dolores Suazo de Carmona and Juan Lucas Gomez Hurtado de Mendoza.
This is the couple you are researching:
Maria Cecilia Suaso de Carmona hija legitima de Luis Thadeo Suaso de Carmona y Juana Gertrudis Velasquez
Antonio Fernando Gutierrez hija legitimo de Juan Gutierrez y Maria Josepha
If you investigate Jose Estanislao Velasquez's and Beatriz Suazo de Carmona's "Velasquez connection" you may find a marriage dispensation that could provide lots of information
.
Jose Estanislao Velasquez
Spouse's Name Beatriz Suzao Y Carmona
Event Date 14 Sep 1805
Event Place Tepatitlan De Morelos,Jalisco,Mexico
Father's Name Pablo Velasquez
Mother's Name Maria Trinidad Suaso Y Carmona
Spouse's Father's Name Luis Suaso Y Carmona
Spouse's Mother's Name Juana Gertrudis Velasquez
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JZFC-JFV : 16 July 2015), Luis Suaso Y Carmona in entry for Jose Estanislao Velasquez and Beatriz Suzao Y Carmona, 14 Sep 1805; citing Tepatitlan De Morelos,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 218,519
Saludos,
Rick A. Ricci
Hi Rick,
I keeped digging around last night and found the marriage record for Luis Thadeo Suazo and Juana Velasques. Parents Francisco Xavier Suazo and Epegia de Lazo- Juana parents Phelippe Velasques and Maria Anna de Aramburo
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-KMSZ-1Y?i=151&cc=18745…
i also found a mirrage record for Juan Gutierres de la Torre and Maria and Maria Josefa Cervantes parents Andres Gurtierres de la Torre and Josepha Sanchez- Wifes parents Joseph Cervantes and Juana Carillo.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-KMS8-GD?i=69&cc=187459…
i also found a marriage record for andres de la torre and Josepha Sanches. im having trouble understading the record..
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-K795-JF?i=194&wc=3JDW-…
I also found a post on here were you listed the parents for Francisco Xavier Suazo and Epigenia de LAzo do you have rcords for them..
Thanks Primo I really appreciate it.
Aaron Torres
Hello Aaron,
My students are off eating lunch so I have about five minutes to answer. I don't have my records in front of me, but this will answer some of your questions:
The Suazo de Carmona line I descend from:
Juan Climaco (Quillmaco) Suazo de Carmona and Pheliciana Belasquez
Juan Climaco is the son of Francisco Xavier Suazo de Carmona and Maria Efigenia Losa (possibly Losano)
Pheliciana is the daughter of Felipe (Phelipe) Velasquez Becerra and Maria Anna Aramburo
Felipe is the son of Blas Vasquez (sometimes spelled Velasquez) de Lara Hernandez and Micaela Becerra de Mendoza
Blas is the son of Francisco Velasquez (Vasquez)and Catalina Hernandez
Maria Anna Aramburo is the daughter of Pascual Aramburo and Juana Nuno Gaytan
Pascual is the son of Diego Aramburo and Ma.Anna G. Yanez de Medinilla Alvarado
Juan Climaco Suazo de Carmona and Luis Thadeo Suazo de Carmona are brothers and their wives Pheliciana Velasquez and Juana Velasquez are sisters.
It is great to find a cousin from this branch of the family. Not to many people are researching this line.
Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci
Hello Rick,
Thats alot of great information.Yea looks like they were brothers and their wives were sisters, that's awesome!!!
I found dispensa matrimonial for de Loza family it lists the father of Epigenia de Loza as Nicolas de Loza not sure if you seen it before.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-K791-R1?i=124&wc=12512…
Check it out when ever you get a chance and you're not at work.
im going to try to keep doing some more research on this line see if i can find more information.
Thanks
Aaron Torres
Dear Aaron,
I do have Nicolas Losa as the father, but I have her as Maria Efigenia Losa and not Epigenia. I will reevaluate the spelling. I did have a wife for Nicolas, but was unsure if it was the same Nicolas Losa so that is where my research ended on the Losa side. I had not seen the marriage dispensation that you provided so I will comb it for clues to continue the tree. The Aramburu came from Zacatecas.
Thanks,
Rick
Rick,
Sorry for the misunderstanding it is Efigenia, i don't know why i had it a Epigenea. Checked both Luis Thadeo marriage and the Dispensa matrimonial that i posted its listed as Efigenia. I did find on NR all this amazing information on the Aramburos from Nochistlan, Zacatecas http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/23035
I also found some baptism records for francisco Carmona adn Efigenia de Loza
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NRWK-GQV
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NRWK-24Y
Posible Baptism for Efigenia this coulb be what you were talking about earlier.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NK9Y-P9N
By any chance do you happend to have any information on Joseph Manuel Simon de Covarrubias Villasenor parents Juan Antonio de Covarrubias and Casilda de Villasenor. Married Juana Dias Rodrigues in Atoyac, Jalisco 1714. Parents for Juana Agustin Dias and Magdalena Rodrigues
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-VRS3-8?cc=1874591&cat=…
Not sure if one of the testigos reads as "El Capitan Bartolome Corona"
Thanks Saludos
Aaron Torres
Dear Aaron,
Its recess and the students are on the yard so i have five minutes. I do not have information about "Joseph Manuel Simon de Covarrubias Villasenor parents Juan Antonio de Covarrubias and Casilda de Villasenor. Married Juana Dias Rodrigues in Atoyac, Jalisco 1714. Parents for Juana Agustin Dias and Magdalena Rodrigues"
However, the information that you provided that one of the testigos is "El Capitan Bartolome Corona" leads me to believe that there is a good chance that this branch of the family belongs to the Villasenor-Corona branch of the Villasenor family tree. Next month I will take out all my notes on the Villasenor-Corona branch and see if I can put the clues that you have provided together with that branch.
Sorry that I can't do it right now as I am overloaded with work. In the meantime, I recommend that you check out what I have posted on the Villasenor family as there is tremendous amount of information on this family tree.
Saludos,
Rick A. Ricci
Dear Rick,
Awesome when ever you get a chance i know how work can be. This is my first with as a university student. I will be overload it with work for the next 5 months i can feel the stree already!
I have read a little bit about the Villasenor Family, but have not been able to make a connection yet. I will keep looking for more clues see what I can find. I also believe they could be from the same family.
Back to the Aramburo, on a another post you posted that Diego Aramburos great grandmother was Francisca de Figueroa y Temiño de Bañuelos. Is Diego the son of Geronimo Aramburo and Elvira Carvajal de Ulloa y Reyes. Elviras grandmother would be Francisca Figueroa y Temino. Found a family tree on ancestry not sure if this the right information.since they have no sources.
An is Maria Anna G Yañez de Medinilla Alvarado the granddaughter of Pedro de Medinilla and Ysabel de Alvarado??
Here's my email aarontorres317@gmail.com probably alot easier to communicate, if you ever get a chance
Thank You very much I appreciate your time.
Aaron Torres
Hello to each and everyone,
I hope some very savvy members can help me in finding out who the mother of Pedro Velasco Navarrete married to Mariana de Aceves was.
Ruben--
Pedro de Velasco Navarrete is a mistake, I am not sure where this started, but it has been passed around on multiple genealogy websites, he is not Navarrete. He was actually known and signed as Don Pedro Ruiz de Velasco y Haro. He was married to Da. Ana Núñez Bohórquez, the daughter of D. Juan Núñez Bohórquez, this last link was given to me from D. Guillermo Tovar de Teresa before his passing.
The couple is found in Mexico City in 1618 where they baptized their son Pedro on 20 Nov 1618 in the Asunción parish of Mexico City. We are not sure exactly when the couple moved from Mexico City to Ayo el Chico, today Ayotlán, but I would imagine it took place sometime in the 1620s. The first hard date in the Obispado de Michoacán, we have sadly is not until 23 Feb 1656. This is the marriage that took place between Da. María Ruiz de Haro (daughter of Pedro and Ana) and D. Cristóbal Hernández Gamiño y Espejo in Iraputo, Guanajuato.
The first dispensa is between Juan de Aceves y Becerra and Isabel Velázquez, widow of Francisco de Alvarado, but it is a dispensa for fourth degree of affinity not consanguinity, meaning Juan de Aceves y Becerra and Francisco de Alvarado were third cousins.
Hernández de Arellano=Hurtado de Mendoza connection: Toribio and Isabel are not mentioned, but the earliest on this tree are mentioned in the document as first cousins "primos hermanos" and "hijos de dos hermanas." We know from several other records that these two were both grandchildren of Toribio and Isabel:
Toribio Hernández de Arellano and Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza
Marta Sánchez de Mendoza (sisters) Ana Sánchez de Mendoza
Francisco Sánchez de Lara (1st cousins) Juan de Becerra "el mozo"
José de Alvarado (his mother was María de Alvarado) (2nd cousins) Andrea Rodríguez Becerra
Francisco de Alvarado (3rd cousins) Juan de Aceves
m. Isabel Velázquez (married twice) m. Isabel Velázquez
I do not see how Andrea Rodríguez Becerra would be related to Pedro de Velasco, they are not related.
The second dispensa does state that Pedro "el mozo" and Mencía Ruiz de Velasco were siblings and includes two relationships of consanguinity (both in the fourth degree, or third cousins, which follows:
Aceves-Hermosillo connection
Juan de Aceves m. Beatriz Muñoz de Hermosillo
Juan de Aceves (siblings) Mariana de Aceves
Sebastián de Aceves (1st cousins) Violanta Ruiz de Velasco
Miguel de Aceves (2nd cousins) Pedro Hernández Gamiño
Gertrudis de Aceves (pretensa) (3rd cousins) Francisco Hernández Gamiño (pretenso)
Hernández Gamiño connection
Blas Gómez de Espejo (siblings) Diego Gómez de Espejo
Pedro Hernández Gamiño (1st cousins) Lugarda Gómez de Espejo
Pedro Hernández Gamiño (2nd cousins) Miguel de Aceves
Francisco Hernández Gamiño (pretenso) (3rd cousins) Gertrudis de Aceves (pretensa)
Regards,
Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino
Mr. Daniel
Many thanks for your quick and detailed replay.
The Pedro I'm talking about might be the one christened in Mexico City on 20 Nov 1618.
This Pedro signed as po belasco nabarrete and he was 56 y/o on 1676. His signature is in the first Dispensa near the top of the left hand side page of the following image (385 of 617):
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6K9Y-43
This Dispensa also holds the whole file of (The Pretensa) Isabel Velázquez's complaint on the kiddnaping of Juan de Aceves (The Pretenso) by his uncle Pedro Velasco, Cristóbal Becerra (Also Pretenso's maternal uncle), Juan de Aceves (Pretenso's brother) and Juan González so they didn't get married. This complaint starts on image 373 of 617:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6K9T-D8
The consanguinity relationship between Francisco de Alvarado and Juan de Aceves is detailed on the image 370 of 617. The family tree is half way down of the right hand side page:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6K9T-TK
But this relationship is irrelevant to determine the relationship between Pedro Velasco and Andrea Rodríguez.
The relationship between Pedro Velasco and Andrea Rodríguez is on several testimonies:
* Testimony of the same Pedro Velasco (Confession). Near the bottom of the left hand side page of image 384 of 617:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6K9T-3C
"... Dijo que ese día habiendo recibido un recado de Andrea rodríguez su hermana y madre de Juan de Aceves (Pretenso), el cual le trajo José de Aceves su hijo (Andrea's son) diciendole que el dicho Juan de Aceves andaba huido de su casa ..."
At the bottom of the same page:
"... fué este confesante, y en su compañía Cristóbal Becerra hermano de dicha Andrea Rodríguez, y José de Aceves, y hallando en dicho puesto de Marichi al dicho Juan de Aceves, le dijo que porque ..."
* Testimony of Andrea Rodríguez. Near the top of the left hand side page of image 388 of 617:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6K9T-YW
"... dijo que lo que pasa es que habiendosele huido de su casa el dicho Juan de Aceves su hijo, temiéndose de que no se juntase con malas compañias y diese mala nota de su persona le envió a decir a Pedro Velasco su hermano que sabía que estaba el dicho Juan de Aceves en un puesto que llaman Marichi ..."
So Andrea Rodríguez and Cristóbal Becerra (By the way, Cristóbal was Pedro's son in law. He was the husband of Cornelia de Velasco, Pedro's daughter) were father-only siblings and Andrea Rodríguez and Pedro Velasco were mother-only siblings.
Was Andrea Rodríguez also the daughter of Ana Núñez Bohórquez, mother of Pedro Velasco?
Again, many thanks for your attention.
Rubén,
Thanks for clarifying, it does appear Pedro used also Pedro de Velasco Navarrete and is the same one baptized 20 Nov 1618 in Mexico City. I am not sure where the Navarrete comes from, but we do not have much information beyond his parents Pedro Ruiz de Velasco y Haro and Ana Núñez Bohórquez and his maternal grandfather Juan Núñez Bohórquez. It is possible Navarrete came from an ancestor or possibly a mayorazgo that he may have inherited.
The document also does state Andrea and Pedro as siblings in each respective testimony. There have been known to be mistakes in dispensas as people's memories fail at times, but this one definitely needs further research. What causes more confusion is that from the other dispensa you included in your post we know that Andrea Rodríguez Becerra was a daughter of Juan Becerra, son of Juan Becerra and Ana Sánchez de Mendoza. Ana is the daughter of Toribio and Isabel. Juan de Becerra was married to Catalina Galindo (these were Cristóbal Becerra's parents) but that does not necessarily mean that Catalina is the mother of Ana Rodríguez Becerra. Unless anyone has a record to prove this link? My other question is why does Andrea use Rodriguez?
Daniel MdTC
Ruben
I haven´t been able yet to read the dispensa but I think we are watching one of those cases where the use of some words has changed with time and that leads to some confussion.
I undesrtand that Pedro Velasco Navarrete (II) states that Andrea Rodríguez is his sister, but I´m sure that what he really meant was : SISTER IN LAW.
The information in my notes has the following:
Pedro Ruíz Velasco Navarrete (I) married to Ana Núñez Bohorquez around 1616 was the father of :
Juan Bacilio Ruíz de Velasco ca 1630
Pedro Ruíz de Velasco Navarrete (II) b1618 who married first to Luisa de Alarcón ca 1640 and they had :
Juan Velasco Alarcon b26-jun-1644, Guad
Nicolasa n19-nov-1645 Guad
Mencía de Velasco nc1646 +c1666 Diego Gómez de Espejo Hernández Gamiño
This last couple were the parents of
Lugarda Gómez de Espejo bc1669 married 6-V-1689 Sebastián Aceves bc1660 .
This last couple were the parents of :
Miguel b15-oct-1690 Tepa Im58: hl de Sebastián y Lugarda vecinos del Ojo de Agua de San Pedro de Esta Juris …habiendole
echado el agua Don Pedro Aceves y por no estar presente le baptice…PP Pedro de Estrada Bocanegra y Da Andrea Rodríguez su
mujer +married ca1720 Mariana Flores , parents of
Gertrudis de Aceves Flores bc1735 married 6-may-1755 con disp Fco Hernández
Pedro Ruíz Velasco Navarrete (II) had a second wedding ca1649 with Mariana de Aceves de Hermosillo b1628 en septiembre de 1650 obtienen en merced de cabildo el Rancho San José en León,Gto. de 3 caballerías
Mariana Aceves Hermosillo was the sister of
Juan de Aceves Hermosillo bc1628,d6-ago-1661 married ca1651 María Andrea Rodríguez Becerra Hurtado de Mendoza Galindo nc1630
An this is why Pedro Ruíz Velasco (II) calls Andrea Todríguez "his sister"
Mr. Peredo
Thank you for taking part in this topic.
The information you are providing is very interesting.
It seems Andrea Rodríguez was not Pedro Velasco's sister in law. Andrea Rodríguez was the wife of Juan de Aceves and Juan de Aceves was Pedro Velasco's brother in Law. So Andrea was the wife of Pedro's brother in law.
On the other hand, it was very usual that two siblings married two other siblings: Mariana de Aceves and Juan de Aceves married to Pedro Velasco and Andrea Rodríguez.
There also is the testimony of Basilio Velasco using the term "cuñado" near the bottom of the page on the right hand side of the image 376 of 617:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6K9R-2C
"... cuyo dueño es este testigo a quien se lo dió Cristóbal Becerra su cuñado ..."
Rubén
I just want to comment on what you said regarding it being “unusual that two siblings married two other siblings”
This was actually more common than one might think, especially within the espanoles that did not want to marry beneath them.
-Angelina-
> On Aug 24, 2017, at 10:15 AM, baratero69@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Mr. Peredo Thank you for taking part in this topic. The information you are
> providing is very interesting. It seems Andrea Rodríguez was not Pedro
> Velasco's sister in law. Andrea Rodríguez was the wife of Juan de Aceves and
> Juan de Aceves was Pedro Velasco's brother in Law. So Andrea was the wife of
> Pedro's brother in law. On the other hand, it was very usual that two
> siblings married two other siblings: Mariana de Aceves and Juan de Aceves
> married to Pedro Velasco and Andrea Rodríguez. There also is the testimony
> of Basilio Velasco using the term "cuñado" near the bottom of the page on
> the right hand side of the image 376 of 617:
> https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6K9R-2C "... cuyo dueño es
> este testigo a quien se lo dió Cristóbal Becerra su cuñado ..." Rubén
>
I agree with you Angelina.
I said "It was very usual".
Regards,
Rubén
Sorry. You did … my brain and vision miscommunicated.
-Angelina-
> On Aug 24, 2017, at 5:19 PM, baratero69@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> I agree with you Angelina. I said "It was very usual". Regards, Rubén
>
I'm not saying that there's a posibility that Andrea Rodríguez is called "sister" of Pedro Velasco Navarrete II because she was the sister in law of Pedro's second wife, THAT IS SIMPLY A FACT.
One way to conclude this easily is because we know that the Cristóbal Becerra that was imprisoned with Pedro Velasco Navarrete II was married precisely with Cornelia, daughter of Pedro.
We also know that this Cristóbal was the brother of Andrea Rodríguez Becerra, so THERE'S NO WAY that Cristóbal could be brother of his own FATHER IN LAW, he could by NO MEANS marry Cornelia Velasco if he was brother of Andrea and she sister of Pedro.
If Juan de Aceves (the husband of Andrea) were alive at the time of the dispensa, Pedro would call him rightfully "BROTHER", then why wouldn't he call "SISTER" Andrea?
Mr. Peredo
I asked myself about the marriage of Cristóbal Becerra and Cornelia.
If Cristóbal Becerra and Andrea Rodríguez were father-only siblings and Pedro Velasco and Andrea Rodríguez were mother-only siblings there was no consanguinity relationship between Pedro and Cristóbal.
Rubén
Rubén I noticed that you proposed the posibility of Pedro being half-brother of Andrea, and Andrea being half-sister of Cristóbal Becerra, and yes, in that case Cristóbal could marry a daughter of Pedro.
But the parents of Pedro and the parents of Andrea and Cristóbal have been reported here several years ago, the following are excerpts of an old post of our cousin El Capitán Paco:
Cristóbal Becerra Nació: 1647 en Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México Residencia: Ayo el Chico, Jalisco, México... Padre: Juan Becerra Hurtado de Mendoza Madre: Catalina Galindo
.. +Cornelia Ruiz de Velasco Nació: ca. 1655 en Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México Residencia: Ayo el Chico, Jalisco, México Se casaron: ca. 1674 en Ayo el Chico, Jalisco, México Falleció: Se desconoce Padre: Pedro Velasco Navarrete Madre: Mariana de Aceves...
Pedro Velasco Navarrete Nota: Don Pedro Velasco Navarrete (Ruiz de Velasco), español; originario de la Ciudad de Méjico, y vecino de Ayo y Tepa; h.l. de D. Pedro Ruiz de Haro y Velasco y de D. Anna Núñez Bojórquez; se casó con Mariana de Aceves, hacia 1650; falleció antes de 1690. Nació: 20 Noviembre 1618 en Ciudad de México, México
A little more information to complete the past argumentation:
Ana Isabel Sánchez de Mendoza bc1565 +21-ene-1584 Lagos, Juan Becerra, they were the parents of :
Leonor Becerra b1576 Lagos +1596 Ags, Juan López de Elizalde Aberruza b1571
Tolosa, Guipúzcoa
Juan Becerra b1586 Jalos +1629 Jalos, Catalina Rodríguez Galindo b1607 Jalos,
they were the parents of :
María 1630 +c1650 Sebastián de Aceves Gutiérrez de Hermosillo n1626 Jalos
Cristóbal Becerra n1647 +ca 1672 Cornelia Ruíz de Velasco
María Andrea Rodríguez Becerra Hurtado de Mendoza Galindo n1634 Tepa (dijo
tener 35 años en 1676 y al parecer tenía 42)+ca1654 Juan de Aceves Hermosillo
n1628 Jalos,m6-ago-1661
Here we see that María and María Andrea Rodríguez Becerra married two brothers : Sebastián and Juan de Aceves Hermosillo, and they were both brothers in law of Pedro Velasco Navarrete II
Thomas Hillerkuss of the Universidad Autonoma de Zacatecas has recently published the third volume of Diccionario Biografico del Occidente Novohispano. The first volume (A-C) is out of stock but there are still copies of the second volume (D-G) for 220 pesos and the third volume (H-I) is available for 350 pesos.
Not sure if you are still able to get the cd of Vol 1 and 2. Abebooks has the 3-4, not sure if there is 5. Thanks for any info you can provide
Greetings,
Hillerkuss has not as of yet completed volume five and we have not been
able to find any of the first two volumes.
Carlos Yturralde
Virus-free.
www.avast.com
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
*Carlos Yturralde*
On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 8:52 AM, wrote:
> Not sure if you are still able to get the cd of Vol 1 and 2. Abebooks has
> the
> 3-4, not sure if there is 5. Thanks for any info you can provide
>
Can you please tell me what this book is about? I have ancestor's from
Chalchihuites, Zacatecas Mexico Esparza / Chavez. Would I find them in
these books?
Thanks,
Mary Cano
-----Original Message-----
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of arturoramos
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 2:13 PM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hillerkuss Diccionario Biografico del
OccidenteNovohispano
Thomas Hillerkuss of the Universidad Autonoma de Zacatecas has recently
published the third volume of Diccionario Biografico del Occidente
Novohispano. The first volume (A-C) is out of stock but there are still
copies of the second volume (D-G) for 220 pesos and the third volume (H-I)
is available for 350 pesos.
I will be ordering a set of the latter two volumes and Dr. Hillerkuss has
agreed to provide the first volume electronically (on a CD). I am wondering
if there are any other members who might be interested in acquiring a set.
My parents are currently in Mexico and I will have the books sent to them
and they will be able to deliver them to me sometime in July. I imagine
that the order (two books plus CD) should run about USD $70-$75 a set
including shipping expenses.
Please contact me PERSONALLY via the site contact form (click on my user
handle on this message, then click the contact tab when my profile comes up)
if you are interested in ordering.
Arturo Ramos:
Do you have a copy of the book already? if you do, maybe making a copy of
the table of content will give others a better idea and decide to buy them
or not.
I am interested to purchase them, how do I give you the $$?
Sylvia H Corona
Sylvia Corona,
Are you related to any Corona family in Brazos Co,
Jim Wells Co, Texas area.
Paula
--- Sylvia Corona/Rcac wrote:
>
> Arturo Ramos:
> Do you have a copy of the book already? if you do,
> maybe making a copy of
> the table of content will give others a better idea
> and decide to buy them
> or not.
> I am interested to purchase them, how do I give you
> the $$?
>
> Sylvia H Corona
I do not have copies of the books but have seen excerpts of the electronic version of the first volume, thus the entry I have for Pedro de Bobadilla in the GEDCOM database based on the book.
The books are only in Spanish and as far as I know they are no translations into English. The books are basically volumes of a dictionary that instead of having word definitions have names and short biographies. I think you will get a pretty good idea of what the entries look like by looking at Pedro de Bobadilla in the GEDCOM database as that is the basic format and length of the entries.
I don't think they have a table of contents, just as word dictionaries do not... i.e. there are no chapters and the names are listed alphabetically thus negating the needs for a table of contents or an index.
If you would like more info on the logistics of ordering a set, please contact me personally through the web contact form on the Nuestros Ranchos site.
General
For anyone doing genealogy in the area....this book is a must!!! I have recently paid $80.00 just for the 3rd copy here in Texas! The books are 81/2 by 11....and the last copy has 496 pages. They are soft covered and worth every penny!!
If I did not have them...I would be purchasing them now!!
Mickey
-----Original Message-----
From: arturo.ramos2@gmail.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wed, 9 May 2007 9:36 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hillerkuss Diccionario Biografico del Occidente Novohispano
I do not have copies of the books but have seen excerpts of the electronic
version of the first volume, thus the entry I have for Pedro de Bobadilla in the
GEDCOM database based on the book.
The books are only in Spanish and as far as I know they are no translations into
English. The books are basically volumes of a dictionary that instead of having
word definitions have names and short biographies. I think you will get a
pretty good idea of what the entries look like by looking at Pedro de Bobadilla
in the GEDCOM database as that is the basic format and length of the entries.
I don't think they have a table of contents, just as word dictionaries do not...
i.e. there are no chapters and the names are listed alphabetically thus negating
the needs for a table of contents or an index.
If you would like more info on the logistics of ordering a set, please contact
me personally through the web contact form on the Nuestros Ranchos site.
For those of you who missed the chance to get in on the order I made for Thomas Hillerkuss' Diccionario Biografico del Occident Novohispano, Volumes II and III are now available through George Farias' online bookstore:
Arturo, what are these books? I'm not familiar with them.
Linda in Everett
arturoramos wrote:
Thomas Hillerkuss of the Universidad Autonoma de Zacatecas has recently published the third volume of Diccionario Biografico del Occidente Novohispano. The first volume (A-C) is out of stock but there are still copies of the second volume (D-G) for 220 pesos and the third volume (H-I) is available for 350 pesos.
I will be ordering a set of the latter two volumes and Dr. Hillerkuss has agreed to provide the first volume electronically (on a CD). I am wondering if there are any other members who might be interested in acquiring a set. My parents are currently in Mexico and I will have the books sent to them and they will be able to deliver them to me sometime in July. I imagine that the order (two books plus CD) should run about USD $70-$75 a set including shipping expenses.
Please contact me PERSONALLY via the site contact form (click on my user handle on this message, then click the contact tab when my profile comes up) if you are interested in ordering.
Yes!!! I would like to know also.
Mary
-----Original Message-----
>From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
>Sent: May 8, 2007 2:27 PM
>To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hillerkuss Diccionario Biografico del Occidente Novohispano
>
>Arturo, what are these books? I'm not familiar with them.
>
> Linda in Everett
>
>arturoramos wrote:
>
>Thomas Hillerkuss of the Universidad Autonoma de Zacatecas has recently published the third volume of Diccionario Biografico del Occidente Novohispano. The first volume (A-C) is out of stock but there are still copies of the second volume (D-G) for 220 pesos and the third volume (H-I) is available for 350 pesos.
>
>I will be ordering a set of the latter two volumes and Dr. Hillerkuss has agreed to provide the first volume electronically (on a CD). I am wondering if there are any other members who might be interested in acquiring a set. My parents are currently in Mexico and I will have the books sent to them and they will be able to deliver them to me sometime in July. I imagine that the order (two books plus CD) should run about USD $70-$75 a set including shipping expenses.
>
>Please contact me PERSONALLY via the site contact form (click on my user handle on this message, then click the contact tab when my profile comes up) if you are interested in ordering.
Yes, indeed. What kind of information is contained within. Is the Spanish scholarly and difficult to understand?
--- mgervassi@earthlink.net wrote:
From: Mary Gervassi
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hillerkuss Diccionario Biografico del Occidente Novohispano
Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 14:53:15 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Yes!!! I would like to know also.
Mary
-----Original Message-----
>From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
>Sent: May 8, 2007 2:27 PM
>To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hillerkuss Diccionario Biografico del Occidente Novohispano
>
>Arturo, what are these books? I'm not familiar with them.
>
> Linda in Everett
>
>arturoramos wrote:
>
>Thomas Hillerkuss of the Universidad Autonoma de Zacatecas has recently published the third volume of Diccionario Biografico del Occidente Novohispano. The first volume (A-C) is out of stock but there are still copies of the second volume (D-G) for 220 pesos and the third volume (H-I) is available for 350 pesos.
>
>I will be ordering a set of the latter two volumes and Dr. Hillerkuss has agreed to provide the first volume electronically (on a CD). I am wondering if there are any other members who might be interested in acquiring a set. My parents are currently in Mexico and I will have the books sent to them and they will be able to deliver them to me sometime in July. I imagine that the order (two books plus CD) should run about USD $70-$75 a set including shipping expenses.
>
>Please contact me PERSONALLY via the site contact form (click on my user handle on this message, then click the contact tab when my profile comes up) if you are interested in ordering.
The books contain short biographies of people who appear in historical documents of the 16th and 17th Century in New Galicia and Michoacan, Colima, etc... basically Western New Spain. Each entry also contains a bibliography of the documents where the person is mentioned. The names include Spaniards as well as Indigenous Mexicans and Afro-Mexicans.
If you look up Pedro Bobadilla in the GEDCOM database on the Nuestros Ranchos site you will see an example of what the entries contain. Each volume has thousands of names... I believe they are about 400 pages each.
There are some other members who have copies of the books who might give you a better idea of what is in them.
Are the volumes printed in Spanish? If so, are there translated versions available?
-----Original Message-----
From: arturo.ramos2@gmail.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tue, 8 May 2007 7:55 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hillerkuss Books
The books contain short biographies of people who appear in historical documents
of the 16th and 17th Century in New Galicia and Michoacan, Colima, etc...
basically Western New Spain. Each entry also contains a bibliography of the
documents where the person is mentioned. The names include Spaniards as well as
Indigenous Mexicans and Afro-Mexicans.
If you look up Pedro Bobadilla in the GEDCOM database on the Nuestros Ranchos
site you will see an example of what the entries contain. Each volume has
thousands of names... I believe they are about 400 pages each.
There are some other members who have copies of the books who might give you a
better idea of what is in them.
Happy Father's Day to everyone
Instead of completing books that I have been writing, I went to school as a student this summer. I studied many hours to keep up with my precalculus course. I couldn't stay completely away from genealogy so I focused on studying the Herrera family tree whenever I could take time away from my studies. Here are the fruits of my labor:
Note : 3.1.2.1.?.1) Álvaro Herrera is in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
1) Álvaro Sanchez de Herrera
2) Juan Alvarez de Herrera m. Marina Alvarez
3) Diego de Herrera, originally from Toledo, Conquistador de Canarias, (d. 1507) m. Teresa Alvarez de Turiel.
3.1) Álvaro de Herrera (b. ca.1487- d. 1/July/1538), (Regidor del Cabildo de Gran Canaria) m. Isabel de Bachicao (Aka Machicao), daughter of the very rich merchant Jewish converso Hernando Bachicao and Constanza de Ervás. Alvaro and Isabel had at least four children.
3.1.1) Hernando Herrera
3.1.2) Juan Herrera m. Maria Alarcón.
3.1.2.1) Álvaro Herrera bap.2/Sep/1540, named after his paternal grandfather. Alvaro Herrera traveled to the Americas in the latter part of the 16th century and left many descendants in what is now Mexico.
3.1.2.1.?) Missing generation(s?)
3.1.2.1.?.1) Álvaro Herrera (born bet. 1580-1632, still alive in 1667) + Catalina Aceves de Hermosillo (b. abt. 1632). Catalina is a daughter of Jose Aceves Gonzalez and Beatriz de Hermosillo. Jose and Beatriz lived in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.
3.1.2.1.?.1.1) Jeronimo Herrera m. Agustina de Rosa Delgadillo y Gonzales de Islas.
I descend from Jeronimo and Agustina.
3.1.3) Ines Herrera married twice, 1st to Serafín de Fontana, and 2nd marriage to Gaspar de Olivares Maldonado, regidor y alcalde de la Fortaleza de Canarias, son of an "odor de la audencia."
3.2) Juan de Herrera (el viejo), (d. 1525) lived with, and then married Maria Francisca Nuñez Contreras. Juan fundo en Gran Canaria el Hospital de San Martín, el primero en la isla Mayor.
3.2.1) Isabel de Herrera (b.1505) m. Juan Maluenda.
3.2.2) Alonso de Herrera Contreras (b.1509), regidor de la isla.
3.2.3) Maria de Herrera (b.1512) m. Pedro Cabrera de Sosa, venticuatro de Córdoba son of the Gov. of Gran Canaria, Lope de Sosa.
3.2.4) Ines de Herrera (b.1518) m. Lope de Muxica Lezcano. (Mujica Lazcano) regidor.
3.2.5) Teresa de Herrera m. Alonso Pacheco Solis.
3.3) Alonso de Herrera, realtor del consejo real. m. Catalina Nieto.
3.4) Mayor de Herrera m. Juan de San Pedro.
3.5) Diego de Herrera m. Elvira Nieto Diego became Governor of Gran Canaria.
////////////////////
1). Alonso de Alarcón (alcaide de Zafra) + Juana de Santoya
2). Hernan Ruiz de Alarcón + Doña Catalina De la Torre
3). Juan de Alarcón (not married) Leonor Paéz (daughter of Jewish Portuguese
Bartolome Paéz)
4) Maria de Alarcón + Juan Herrera (converso, (Jewish family originally from Toledo, later in Portugal)
5) Alvaro Herrera traveled to the Americas in the latter part of the 16th century and left many descendants in what is now Mexico. Alvaro Herrera was baptized on 2/Sep/1540.
6) [missing generation(s)
7) Alvaro Herrera + Catalina Aceves de Hermosillo
I//////////////////////////
I have a little more information on Alvaro Herrera's ancestry. Many of the 117 families that settled and left descendants in Los Altos de Jalisco were related to each other in Spain. The Alvaro Herrera that came to Mexico is also related to the Padilla Davila de la Mota family as they had some ancestors in common. This is further proof of the Jewish ancestry of some of the families that settled in Los Altos de Jalisco.
Saludos,
Rick A. Ricci
Source: research book mygenes2000
While doing more research on the Herrera family I discoverered that there is one generation too many in the line, the person that I had as Alvaro Herrera's maternal grandfather is actually his uncle. His uncle and true grandfather have the same name which contributed to the confusion. Here is the correct line:
The Alvaro Herrera that came to Mexico descends from:
1) Alonso de Alarcón (alcaide de Zafra) + Juana de Santoya
2). Hernan Ruiz de Alarcón + Doña Catalina De la Torre
3). Juan de Alarcón (not married) Leonor Paéz (daughter of Jewish Portuguese
Bartolome Paéz)
4) Maria de Alarcón + Juan Herrera (converso, (Jewish family originally from Toledo, later in Portugal)
5) Alvaro Herrera traveled to the Americas in the latter part of the 16th century and left many descendants in what is now Mexico. Alvaro Herrera was baptized on 2/Sep/1540.
6) [missing generation(s)
7) Alvaro Herrera + Catalina Aceves de Hermosillo
Sorry for the error.
Rick A.Ricci
I have more information on their Herrera/Fereirra family. A few genealogists place this family as high nobility to hide their Jewish roots and their trials by the inquisition. They did have some standing in the Kings court as they were employed in high positions, and there is a Jewish line of high nobility as they descended from a rabbinic line from the house of David.
I also have more information on the Ruiz de Alarcon and their relationship to the Covarrubias family. There is also a stronger possibility now that the Martin(ez) de Alarcon family from Nueva Galicia is related to the Ruiz de Alarcon ancestors of Alvaro Herrera.
Rick A. Ricci
HI Ric,
I recently began researching my Herrera line out of Tlaltenango. So far I have:
-Pedro Pablo Marin de Errera ( b. Circa 1700) married to Maria de la Roza Robles. Do you think this line connects?
- Miguel Martinez de Alarcon married to Josefa Bautista de Rubalcava (Teocalitche) are my 13th GGrnadparents.
Please share what you know. I would most be appreciative. I need to pick up the latter once again.
thanks,
Maven
Hi Maven,
Yes, I do think they connect as the information that I have is that the Herrera's from Nueva Galicia descend from Alvaro Herrrera. I have more information on the Herrera family before they came over to this side of the Atlantic.
I also descend from Miguel Martinez de Alarcon and Josefa Bautista de Rubalcava.
Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci
Hello Rick
I have one Álvaro Herrera that may or may not be related to the one you present in this post.
In my notes I have Isabel Ruíz "La Moza" daughter of Isabel Ruíz de Haro y Zúñiga "La Vieja", and Juan Ruiz de Castro, married first to an Álvaro Herrera around 1590.Then I have her married around 1600 with Simón Bravo.
Hopefully this adds a small piece to the Herrera genealogy
Hello Carlos,
I don't have my information in front of me but I believe that Alvaro Herrera was born in 1550. they could be the same Alvaro Herrera as there was a connection to the Ruiz family. The one that I have coming over to Mexico is the progenitor of the Herreras in Zacatecas and Jalisco according to records from Portugal. If his widow remarries in 1600 then he died before he hit fifty years of age. Do you have any information on his children? If It is the same Alvaro Herrera, we are still missing a generation between him and his grandson, Alvaro Herrera, who people list being born about 1630. Do you have more information on this family or any clues that I can follow up?
This Herrera family is the same one that Jaime Holcombe claimed were ancestors to our Perez Trello (Perez Franco de Paredes) ancestors.
Thank you Carlos,
Rick A. Ricci
I see these in the sagrada mitra files. What are Cofradias
According to Webster's: "a group or organization of Roman Catholic laymen in Mexico and Central America responsible for the material care of religious images, pilgrimages, and ceremonies."
Hello all. I am Jesús Rodríguez. I am new to this endeavor, and am constantly learning new things.
Hi Jesus
This is a pretty old post hopefully you'll reply, just wondering if you were able to trace back your ancestors from Valle de Mazamitla?. I actually have alot of ancestors from Mazamitla Cisneros, Contreras, Chaves, Toscano Silva to name a few. Thanks
Hi Jesus
This is a pretty old post hopefully you'll reply, just wondering if you were able to trace back your ancestors from Valle de Mazamitla?. I actually have alot of ancestors from Mazamitla Cisneros, Contreras, Chaves, Toscano Silva to name a few. Thanks
Hi Everyone
There is one word I cannot read in a baptism entry:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-K79Y-YV?i=398&wc=3JD4-829%…
Or "espurio" means "illegitimate." So, yes, he is the son of Petra de Altamira Mulata Esclava and an unknown father.
Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Hi Manny
Thanks for taking the time to look at the doc! I would never have gotten that information without your help, as some of the letters were hard for me to read! Now I can go further with Petra de Altamira.
Best Regards,
Denise
Hi Everyone
Quick question:
Does the letter "C." in front of a man's name mean Capitan?
In my experience, the ¨C¨ means ¨Ciudadano¨. You can see it on this page of marriage records from Ojuelos where most records say Ciudadano for each groom while the writer of the last record on the page chose to abbreviate the word to just the letter C.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GPG6-QYD?i=44&cc=1918187&c…
Thanks! good to get that little mystery cleared up!
Regards,
Denise
where can i go to find a marriage dispensation or something of the relevance for a jose domingo cervantes who had married maria nieves terrones on may 2,1798 in cinega de mata , jalisco mexico.
Hello everyone,
Para Uds. que investiguen sus antepasados PADILLA en Jalostotitlan, encontré esta dispensa de 1797 para el matrimonio entre:
Dear Kassandra,
Here is how your Padilla and Martin del Campo ancestors are related:
Maria Agueda Martin del Campo born circa 1705 was the daughter of Francisco Leandro Martin del Campo and Catalina Sanchez de Porras.
Francisco Leandro Martin del Campo is the son of Bernabe Martin del Campo and Catalina Pedroza. Some of Francisco's siblings sometimes used just Campos as a surname.
Bernabe Martin del Campo is the son of Francisco Martin del Campo and Maria de Isassi.
Francisco Martin del Campo is the son of Lazaro Martin del Campo and Maria Lopez de la Cruz.
Ma. Agueda martin del Campo's husband, Cristobal Padilla is the son of Francisco Padilla and Ana Munoz de la Barba.
Francisco Padilla (aka: Padilla Davila, aka: de la Mota Padilla) is the son of Cristobal Padilla Davila and Luisa Gutierrez de Hermosillo
Saludos,
Rick
Thank you Kassandra for sharing the dispensation. Here is a little more information to add to your Paddilla tree:
José Covarrubias married to Margarita Martín del Campo
Margarita Martín del Campo is the daughter of Lazaro Martin del Campo and Catarina Gonzalez de Hermosillo
Lazaro Martín del Campo is the daughter of Lazaro Martin del Campo and Maria Lopez de la Cruz.
Catarina Gonzalez de Hermosillo is the daughter of Nicolas Ramirez de Hermosillo and Francisca Muñoz de la Barba
Thanks again,
Rick A. Ricci
Fantastic, Rick. This is much appreciated. I had topped out with Catarina and had her listed as a Ramirez de Hermosillo. I am plugging them into Family Tree now!
Gracias de
Kassandra
Jose urbano married Guadalupe lopes in 1857 a dispensa was needed for 2nd with 3rd anyone know where i could find san luis potosi during this period?
Hi Simona,
I've seen dispensas & IMs for parishes in SLP, Gto, Mich and Qro in the Arquidiócesis de Morelia archives:
https://familysearch.org/search/image/index?owc=3NRL-7MS%3A178285301%2C…
Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo
I do have his marriage and IM but neither is for the dispensa. I went through some records in Morelia but there is a lot to go through. While looking in San Luis Potosi images, I noticed there are a few scattered dispensas in between some files so I will rule those file out first. I found another marriage of the Rodriguez Alonso that also required a dispensa. It was late cant find who it was but within the same family line. If those dispensas have a tree, I will finally locate parents of Petra Alonzo married to Manuel Rodriguez from charco del Mesquite, San Luis Potosi, Mex.
Thanks, Manny for the link and info.
Jose urbano married Guadalupe lopes in 1857 a dispensa was needed for 2nd with 3rd anyone know where i could find san luis potosi during this period?
Presentación personal / Personal Introduction
Saludos a todos / Greetings everyone,
I am new to the group, although not so new to doing Los Altos genealogical research. My name is Kassandra Brenot; I am the great-grand-daughter of a Los Altos couple who came to the U.S. during the cristero war.
About 25 years ago I began researching my family roots in Los Altos, thanks to my Marquez cousins and the Somos Primos group in the greater Los Angeles area (including Mimi Lozano and Mary Lou Montagna and the stellar work they all got me going on, for which I shall be forever indebted). While my professional and family duties have pulled me away from my passion for genealogy over the course of the past twenty years or so, through some recent unexpected encounters through my work I have reconnected with my Los Altos roots...
I am the head of an all girls, Catholic boarding school in Monterey, California and have discovered that a few of the families at my school are Los Altos families!
i have a miguel martin married to efigenia de lira several children were born to them such as bernardino, lucas, bernabe rosa and or lugarda martin.
Hello,
Virginia,
I was scrolling through the book The Haciendas of Mexico by Paul Alexander Bartlett and I found information related to your request in the book's second chapter, Through the Eyes of Hacienda Visitors. I think it's just a little bit of what you're looking for.
Here's the link:
https://jupiter.ai/books/XNz5/#chap02
Thank you so much for your help. I appreciate it.
V.
Hola Virginia:
En la sección Álbumes de ésta página hay fotografías e historias de varios habitantes de la hacienda La Punta como doña Gabina Bocanegra y allí hay también historia de las personas que trabajaban en favor del Mayorazgo de Ciénega de Mata.
Saludos
Marcelina
Hola Virginia:
En el Siglo XIX perteneció a la familia Rincón Gallardo, don José María Rincón Gallardo dividió el Mayorazgo en 12 porciones, una para cada hijo, La Punta le tocó a Eduardo, el menor.
Para mayores detalles puedes ver el libro "Haciendas y ranchos de Aguascalientes" de Jesús Gómez Serrano (online). Páginas 178, 179, 180.
Sobre el siglo XX encontré un artículo que habla sobre los dueños de la Hacienda, la familia Madrazo Solórzano y luego la familia Baca.
http://heraldo.mx/desde-la-ventana-23-de-febrero/
Saludos
Marcelina
Muchas gracias Marcelina. Creo que este libro me va ayudar.
Virginia
my search so far has taken me to the 9th great grandparents of me known as francisco de lira and or barbara perez.
Hi Steph,
Francisco de Lira was son of Juan de Lira and Maria de la Cruz (my g6s); Barbara de la Concepcion Sanchez Perez was daughter of Salvador Sanchez and Petrona Perez. They were married 19 May 1695, in Cienega de Mata.
Juan de Lira was son of Francisco de Lira and Maria Francisca Hernandez, who were Indians (criados of Juan Marin of Aguascalientes, in 1654). Maria de la Cruz, aka Maria de la Candelaria Quezada, was daughter of Nicolas Quezada and Maria de la Cruz, Mestizos from San Felipe, Gto. Juan de Lira and Maria de la Cruz did their IM in San Felipe on 20 Nov 1666, and they were married there, on 26 Jan 1667. After marrying, she started using her mother's name, Maria de la Cruz.
The Lira's lived on Chinampas, in Cienega de Mata. There were other families named Lira who lived on Chinampas, contemporaries, who are probably siblings of Francisco de Lira (I), though I haven't been able to link them.
Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Hi Steph,
From my notes: Francisco de Lira and Francisca Hernandez were said to be servants on the hacienda called Chinampas, in Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jal.
Though the only primary source document I’ve seen categorizes Francisco and Francisca as Indios, as adults, their children would be listed as Mestizos.
The children of Francisco de Lira and Francisca Hernandez are:
a. Juan de Lira Hernandez, m. Maria de la Cruz, 26 Jan 1667, San Felipe Apostol, Gto.
b. Nicolasa de Lira Hernandez, m. Gabriel Garcia, 27 Jul 2670, Inmaculada Concepcion, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jal.
c. Maria de Lira Hernandez, m. Blas Martin de los Reyes, 2 Jun 1673, Inmaculada Concepcion, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jal.
d. Micaela de Lira Hernandez, m. Jose Garcia, 2 Oct 1680, Inmaculada Concepcion, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jal.
e. Tomas de Lira Hernandez, b. 24 Feb 1654, Asuncion de Maria, Ags; m. Andrea Antonia, 4 Jun 1684, Inmaculada Concepcion, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jal.
f. Augustin de Lira Hernandez, m. Juana de la Cruz, 18 Aug 1686, Inmaculada Concepcion, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jal.
The children of Juan de Lira cc Maria de la Cruz are (I listed their castes after their names):
1. Anna de Lira Candelaria India, b. 32 Aug 1669, Inmaculada Concepcion, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jal; m. Gaspar de los Reyes, b. 08 May 1687, Inmaculada Concepcion, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jal.
2. Jose de Lira Cruz Mestizo, b. 30 Mar 1675, Inmaculada Concepcion, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jal.
3. Francisco de Lira Cruz Mestizo, m. Barbara de la Concepcion Sanchez, 19 May 1695, Inmaculada Concepcion, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jal.
4. Marcelino de Lira Cruz Mestizo, b. 26 Jun 1680, Inmaculada Concepcion, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jal; m1. Teresa de Jesus Lopez, m2. Juana Maria Ygnes de Escobar.
5. Maria de Lira Cruz Mestiza, b. 20 Aug 1684, Inmaculada Concepcion, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jal.
6. Dominga de Lira Cruz Coyota, b. 02 Jul 1686, Inmaculada Concepcion, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jal; m. Jacinto Martin, 7 Nov 1706, Inmaculada Concepcion, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jal.
7. Margarita de Lira Mulata Libre, b. 07 Jun 1688, Inmaculada Concepcion, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jal; m1. Gaspar Aguilera, m2. Francisco Becerra.
8. Jacinta de Lira Candelaria Mestiza, b. 06 Jun 1695, Inmaculada Concepcion, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jal; m. Jacinto Rodriguez, 8 Feb 1711, Inmaculada Concepcion, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jal.
I found a burial record for a Juan de Lira, dated 5 Aug 1714, in Cienega de Mata. I don’t know if this is him, all it says is that he was Mestizo, married, and that he didn’t receive the sacraments, because he died suddenly.
I found a burial record for an Indian woman named Maria de la Cruz, who was a widow and who died 11 Apr 1715, also in Cienega. It says it doesn’t know who she was the widow of. I can’t verify that these are the same Juan de Lira and Maria de la Cruz, as there were others who used the same names.
Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Hi to you Manny I meets another cousin ! this is wonderful-- I did find out that Salvador Sanchez in record shown here for marriage listed his parents so we are one step closer whoo hoo! did find a few of his children also which is great! am i reading that correctly? if my mind serves me correctly the term was servant? is there any way we can see or find out what the marins were like or anything? interested to know more of the family histories.ty!https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenn…
so while reading looks as if juan de lira might have married 2 times am i correct in this?
Hi Steph,
There was more than one man named Juan de Lira, living on Cienega de Mata and at the same time. There were also:
- Juan de Lira “II” cc Maria de la Rosa (born bef 1655); parents of Juan de Lira “IIb” cc Juana de Dios Ubaldo.
- Juan de Lira “III”cc Maria de la Concepcion (born bef 1658)
- Juan de Lira “IV” cc Andrea Beatriz India (born bef 1671)
As far as I can tell, the first 2 are not the same person, since they had children at the same time. Juan IV might be one of the others.
Neither of them are Juan de Lira “I” cc Maria de la Cruz aka Maria de la Encarnacion Quezada, since their timelines don’t match up (less than 9 months between births of children).
There are other “Lira’s” living on Chinampas who I haven’t been able to identify; they might be related, or “Lira” could’ve been a “Christian” surname given to newly indoctrinated Indians, the way “Cruz” and “Reyes” were used. Also, you’ll have hijos naturales of Lira women, and orphans, raised in Lira households, who would have adopted their surname.
Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Thank you Jon I hope members of the group take advantage of this well taught (I say that because I know you are teaching it) webinar,
joseph
From: Jonathan Walker [mailto:mexicanfhr@gmail.com]
Please cut out the editorials