Nuestros Ranchos Site

Welcome!

I just wanted to respond to one element of your message-- the Middle Eastern part. I had my brother take a YDNA test, and the result was J-M172, which has its ancient origins in the Fertile Crescent. My father's line is only traceable on paper to mid-1700s Michoacán, so I was surprised at that result. There could be a Jewish connection, or not-- there isn't really enough evidence either way, but whoever it was most likely went to Spain at some point, and from there, Mexico.We do have some Middle Eastern and Sephardic Jew that shows up in the ethnicity estimates.

I agree that it is Tlazcala.

Giving it just a quick look, the first thing it comes to my mind is "tlazcala" the "H" kind of resembles the "tl" in the word Colotlan at the beginning of the record, and what it looks like a "t" could also be a "l" at the last syllable. Thus maybe a town of that name within Colotlan? Just a thought on other possibles spellings.

Hello Mr. Alvarez.

The corresponding images to some of the indexed records in batch M60575-1 can be found on images 95 to 138 in film no. 654371. There are marriage records for "El pueblo de Apaseo y sus sujetos", years 1589 to 1616.

(Link to image 95 film 654371: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9G6V-D3X)

Example: The first marriage record in the image (miguel Buraqua and Clara guaxo, 11 Apr 1589) is one of the indexed records:

Name: Miguel
Sex: Male
Spouse's Name: Clara
Spouse's Sex: Female
Marriage Date: 11 Apr 1589
Marriage Place: San Juan Bautista, Apaseo el Grande, Guanajuato, México
Digital Folder Number: 4786295
Microfilm Number: 654418
Originating System: ODM
Indexing Batch: M60575-1

Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JC39-V5B : 20 May 2021), Miguel, 1589.

Hope this may be of some help.

Rubén

Here is record on www.familysearch.org there are 7 children some married and one has the name of another morones as padrinos. that might help. Since it seems they had children from 1731 to about 1750 and records have not been indexed. Going through marriages images might be necessary for the years prior to 1731.

Nicolas Ramires
1704–Deceased • LHXP-G7V​
Maria De La Consepcion Morones
1715–Deceased • LHXP-G9V

On another note. It was easy to get to the records by clicking on the year. That is new to me, how did you accomplish it?

Hi Carlos,

I see Tomo 2 - 7. Did I miss Tomo 1? Also, on the order form for Casas & Familias de la Vieja Valladolid it still says Retoños.

Danny

Hola! Haz podido encontrar informacion adicional? Yo desciendo de ellos.

Hola,

Yo soy decendiente directo de esta familia... o sea que somos familia :)

Pudiste averiguar mas?

Hola Víctor, lo mas probable, aunque aún no lo tengo comprobado es que Juan Gómez de Terrazas sea hijo de Juan Gómez de Terrazas y María Cisneros, también llamada María Espinoza. Fueron vecinos tanto de Cuquío como de Tepatitlán. Eran mulatos. Antonia de Mendoza a veces aparece como Antonia de Torres también y tenía una hermana llamada Andrea, casada con un Plascencia.

1). Queen of England and France, Eleanor of Aquitane (b.abt1122), (d.1/Apr/1204) + Henry II Plantagenet, King of England
2). Princess of England, Leonore Plantagenet Queen consort of Castilla (b.13/Oct/1162, d.October/1214) + Alfonso VIII "el noble", King of Castilla
3). Berenguela I "la Grande", Queen of Castilla (d.8/Nov/1246) + Alfonso IX, "el Baboso" King of León and Galicia (b.15/Aug/1171), (d.24/Sep1230)
4). Alfonso de León, Señor de Molina y Mesa (b.1202) + Teresa Perez de Braganza [mistress]
Some genealogists name Urraca’s mother as Alfonso’s 3rd wife, Mayor Alfonso de Meneses.
5). Urraca Alfonso de Molina (b.abt 1233) + Garci Gomez de Carillo, señor de Ormasa
6). Garcia de Carillo.Señor de Ormasa y Mazuelo, (b. ca. 1266) + Elvira Alvarez de Osorio
7). Juana Garcia Carillo y Álvarez Osorio + Diego Gutierrez de Ceballos
8). Elvira Alvarez de Ceballos and Fernan Perez de Ayala, IX Sr. De Ayala
9). Juana Garcia de Ayala (Aka Fernández de Ayala aka de Ayala) married in 1371 to Juan Fernández de Padilla d. 1376.
10). Pero (Pedro) Lopez de Padilla, Señor de Catalañazar y Coruña, Guarda Mayor del Rey Juan II. Pedro López de Padilla married Leonor Sarmiento, daughter of Pedro Ruiz Sarmiento, Señor de Salinas y mariscal de Castilla and Juana de Guzmán.
11).- Juan de Padilla, adelantado mayor de Castilla, murió en la primavera de 1468 (hubo reporte en Abril 1468 que había muerto). casó con Mencia Manrique De Lara, Sra. de Santa Gardea

[Juan is an older brother of Gutierre Padilla who married Leonor de Aguilar. Gutierre Padilla and Leonor Aguilar are ancestors of the Padilla Dávila family of Los Altos de Jalisco.]

12)- Ana Padilla y Manrique De Lara casó con su primo Luis Fernández de Velasco. (ancestors to many families of Los Altos de Jalisco through their daughter Ana Velasco y Padilla

13)- Ana Velasco y Padilla married Alonso de Carrillo De Peralta, I marqués de Falces (b. circa 1450

14)- Antonio de Peralta, II marqués de Falces (d.1545) 2° marqués de Falces, 4° conde de Santisteban de Lerín, señor de la baronía de Peralta, consejero de los reyes de Navarra, mayordomo mayor de la Casa real, m. 17/Dec/1514 Ana de Bosquet y Lucy, señora de Tornay, daughter of Jean (Juan) de Bosquet, barón de Pouget en Bearne, gran canciller de Navarra and. Ana de Lucy, señora de Belaire. Antonio had two children with another woman. One of these other children was also named Ana. Both Anas married sued their brother for their “dote” as it seems their father had passed away at the time of their marriages. Both these lawsuits are archived and if we could read them then we would find out which of the two Anas descends from Ana Bosquet y Lucy, and which descends from the other woman. The lawsuits may even tell us the name of the other woman. These documents are presently unavailable for review.

15)- Ana Carrillo de Peralta (Regado was part of the surname with some of the women, sometimes it is spelled a little differently but lost my notes with the other spelling) married Pedro de Yanguas, regidor perpetuo de la ciudad de Logroño.

16)- Ana Carillo De Peralta (named after her mother) married Geronimo Lopez “el mozo” (born in 1537) (Tesorero Real y Regidor, takes the position as his father), [son of Geronimo Lopez “el viejo” (b.1488, d. 1949 while on a ship returning to Spain) (Also Tesorero Real y Regidor), and his second wife, Catalina Alvarez De Cabrera (descendant of the house of David; she has an ancestor that is a sister of a famous Jewish theologian that became an even more famous Catholic Theologian.] Ana Carillo Peralta is Geronimo el mozo’s second of three wives.

17)- María Peralta Mendoza marries Diego Coria, Maria becomes a widow at an early age and becomes a nun before her father writes his will.

18)- There may be an extra generation here as there is some confusion as to whether #19 is the son or grandson of #18.

19)- Manuel Coria Peralta m. ca. 1630 to Catalina Lomelin (bap. 17/May/1607) (daughter of Luciano (Luis) Lomelin and Maria Del Olmo

20)- Bernarda Lomelin Peralta (bap. 25/Oct/1632) Chilchota, Michoacan m. José de Villaseñor y Figueroa
21)- María De Villaseñor y Lomelin m. Francisco de Cuevas Carvajal y Monjarás (son of de Don Pedro de Cuevas y Carvajal y de Doña Josepha de Solís y Monjarás)

22)- Regina Villaseñor de la Cueva m. to Miguel De Hermosillo (aka Miguel Gonzalez De Hermosillo, aka Miguel Munoz De Hermosillo)

RIck A. Ricci
Source: my book Mygenes2000

Here are two interesting court cases that may shed light on the ancestry of Pedro Yanguas and on the identity of the mother of Ana Carillo De Peralta Regada and of her half sister Ana De Peralta

First Case:
* Título: 
PEDRO DE YANGUAS Y ANA CARRILLO DE PERALTA contra GASTON DE PERALTA
* Serie: 
Procesos judiciales. Ochoa-Sentenciados
* Productor: 
CORTE MAYOR DE NAVARRA
* Fechas: 
1547.01.28 - 1547.08.12
* Lugar:
LOGROÑO - LA RIOJA - ESPAÑA
FALCES - NAVARRA - ESPAÑA
* Contenido: 
Pedro de Yanguas, regidor perpetuo de la ciudad de Logroño, y Ana Carrillo de Peralta, su mujer, contra Gaston de Peralta, marques de Falces, sobre entrega de 2.000 ducados de dote ofrecidos en el testamento de Alfonso Carrillo de Peralta, marques de Falces.

Second case:

Título: ANA DE PERALTA contra GASTON DE PERALTA
Serie: Procesos judiciales. Solano-Pendientes
Productor: CONSEJO REAL DE NAVARRA
Fechas: 1547.12.02 - 1553.12.31
Lugar:
Traibuenas - MURILLO EL CUENDE - NAVARRA - ESPAÑA
Rada - MURILLO EL CUENDE - NAVARRA - ESPAÑA
Contenido: Ana de Peralta, mujer de Tristan de Mauleon, señor de Traibuenas y Rada, contra Gaston de Peralta, su hermano, marques de Falces, sobre pago de 10.000 ducados de dote.
Características:
342 Folios
Referencia ES/NA/AGN/F017/086296

I would assume that the larger dote is for the legitimate daughter Ana, and the smaller dote for the illegitimate daughter Ana but that isn’t always the case. Sometimes the illegitimate children are given more.

Rick A. Ricci,
source: my book Mygenes2000

Regina Villaseñor de la Cuevas’s descent from royalty through her Peralta ancestors.

A few notes labeled A through H before the tree.

Note A.
A small minority claim that García Martínez Peralta and Ana Sánchez Ruiz de Azagra are the parents of “Mosén Pierres de Peralta “el Viejo”.

Many people claim that 2.”Mosén Pierres de Peralta, el Viejo” was the illegitimate son of Charles II De Navarro d’ Evereaux.

Both are mistaken as their is an extra generation which shows that Mosen Pierre De Peralta “el Viejo” (Pedro Perez de Peralta) is a grandson of both García Martínez Peralta and Ana Sánchez Ruiz de Azagra and king Carlos II “el malo” and queen Juana De Francia

Note B
Geronimo Lopez “el Mozo” and his wife, Ana Carillo de Peralta came from the upper high class. Their immediate descendants married into other upper high class society like the Villaseñor, Lomelin, Santiago, Ovande, Alvarez Nuñez, Rivadeneyra, and Cervantes families to name some of them.

Note C
The Diego Coria III that marries a daughter of Geronimo Lopez el Mozo and his wife, Ana Carillo De Peralta, is a descendant, but not a son, of Conquistador Diego Coria I

Note D
I was only going to post a line of descent without any stories but decided to give a glimpse of the many stories to go along with this family tree. One of the stories involve the French civil war between descendants of the same woman, but from different fathers. She was forced to separate from her first husband because they were too closely related. It was mainly because of jealousy and politics that there was a complaint. Since she was forced to separate from her husband, she marries marries a second husband and has more children. Then the jealousy and politics really come to a boiling point as now she is being accused of bigamy by the people who said that her first marriage wasn’t valid. She provided for separate inheritances of the two families, but eventually her descendants are involved in a big civil war that involves much of France. There are many other interesting stories like a Frenchman being held prisoner in London by his distant cousin, the Black Prince Of England. While he was under lock and key, he played chess and socialized with his distant cousin. There is also a connection that contributes to France backing Enrique II in its civil war between King Pedro the Cruel of Castilla and his half brother, Enrique II.

Note E
One of the ancestors, the Cardinal, is deeply involved in the politics in Castilla. He becomes a big enemy of King Ferdinand II of Aragon, the Catholic King..

Note F
Many of these people have multiple marriages, but I tried to only list the spouses that are the biological parents.

Note G
There are many lines of ancestry to kings of France, Navarra, Castilla, Leon, and England.

Note H
This Villaseñor line that Regina descends from is related to a Villaseñor D' Avalos line. Regina’s maternal grandfather, Jose de Villaseñor Figueroa, was married twice . Through his first marriage to Maria Delgadilla y Bocanegra D'avalos you have a line of descent that used Villaseñor D'avalos. Regina Villaseñor descends from the second marriage so she doesn't have D'avalos in her ancestry.

Regina Villaseñor de la Cuevas’s descent from royalty through her Peralta ancestors.

1. Charles II the bad Rey De Navarra and Juana De Francia o De Valois
2. Pierre de Nabarra Evreux, conde de Mortain (b. 31/Mar/1366, Évreux, Eure, Normandy, France; d. 29/July/1412) with Mistress Ana Martinez De Peralta (daughter of García Martínez Peralta and Ana Sánchez Ruiz de Azagra) Pierre is married to another woman.
3. Pierre Perez De Peralta, señor De Aldonsilla, (known as “Mossen (Monsegneur) Pierre” [consejero real] Aka “Mosén Pierres de Peralta “el Viejo”. In 1416 he is named "ricohombre” in Navarra. Acting ambassador in París (1398, 1404, 1408 y 1409) in the conflict between the "armagnacs" y "borgoñones". Ambassador in Castilla (1412) and Aragón (1413 - 1414), ] ( He is often confused with his father, situation which repeats with his son “el menor or el joven”) [el mozo is more often reserved for “junior” and el menor or el joven is more often used for the third in line with similar names, ] He is married to Juana Ezpeleta y Garro, ( daughter of Ogier de Garo y Chatillon and Juana Ezpleta y Echauz, señora De Ezpleta)
4. Pedro, Mosen Pierres “el Joven” de Peralta y Ezpeleta, conde de santisteban. He is often confused with his father as he continued his father’s work as key advisor to the king of Navarra. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/MosenPierresFoto.JPG. First marriage: 27/Dec/1440 in “el Palacio Real de Olite” with Ana de Brabante, illegitimate daughter of Antonio de Borgoña. Aka Antonio De Brabante, duque de Brabante, Lothier y Limburgo, conde de Rethel,
5. Juana Peralta Regado m 22/Nov1467 with Troilo (o Zoilo) Carrillo (conde de Augusta, in Italy, illegitimate son of Cardenal Alonso Carrillo de Acuña
6. Alonso de Carrillo De Peralta, I marqués de Falces (b. circa 1450, married first wife Ana Velasco y Padilla ( daughter of Luis Fernandez De Velasco y Manrique De Lara and Ana De Padilla y Manrique De Lara.
7. Antonio de Peralta, II marqués de Falces (d.1545) 2° marqués de Falces, 4° conde de Santisteban de Lerín, señor de la baronía de Peralta, consejero de los reyes de Navarra, mayordomo mayor de la Casa real, m. 17/Dec/1514 Ana de Bosquet y Lucy, señora de Tornay, daughter of Jean (Juan) de Bosquet, barón de Pouget en Bearne, gran canciller de Navarra and. Ana de Lucy, señora de Belaire. Antonio had two children with another woman. One of these other children was also named Ana. The two Anas married and both sued their brother for their “dote” as it seems their father had passed away at the time of their marriages. Both these lawsuits are archived and if we could read them then we would find out which of the two Anas descends from Ana Bosquet y Lucy, and which descends from the other woman. The lawsuits may even tell us the name of the other woman. These documents are presently unavailable for review.
8. Ana Carrillo de Peralta (Regado was part of the surname with some of the women, sometimes it is spelled a little differently but lost my notes with the other spelling) married Pedro de Yanguas, regidor perpetuo de la ciudad de Logroño.
9. Ana Carillo De Peralta (named after her mother) married Geronimo Lopez “el mozo” (born in 1537) (Tesorero Real y Regidor, takes the position as his father), [son of Geronimo Lopez “el viejo” (b.1488, d. 1949 while on a ship returning to Spain) (Also Tesorero Real y Regidor), and his second wife, Catalina Alvarez De Cabrera (descendant of the house of David; she has an ancestor that is a sister of a famous Jewish theologian that became an even more famous Catholic Theologian.] Ana Carillo Peralta is Geronimo el mozo’s second of three wives.
10. María Peralta Regado Mendoza marries Diego Coria, Maria becomes a widow at an early age and becomes a nun before her father writes his will.
11. There may be an extra generation here as there is some confusion as to whether #12 is the son or grandson of #10.
12. Manuel Coria Peralta Regado m. ca. 1630 to Catalina Lomelin (bap. 17/May/1607) (daughter of Luciano (Luis) Lomelin and Maria Del Olmo
13: Bernarda Lomelin Peralta (bap. 25/Oct/1632) Chilchota, Michoacan m. José de Villaseñor y Figueroa
14. María De Villaseñor y Lomelin m. Francisco de Cuevas Carvajal y Monjarás (son of de Don Pedro de Cuevas y Carvajal y de Doña Josepha de Solís y Monjarás)
15. Regina Villaseñor de la Cueva m. to Miguel De Hermosillo (aka Miguel Gonzalez De Hermosillo, aka Miguel Munoz De Hermosillo)

In some family trees that I have seen in secondary sources Regina De Cueva Villaseñor and Ynes Cueva Villaseñor are sisters and not the same person. They are both daughters of María De Villaseñor y Lomelin and Francisco de Cuevas Carvajal y Monjarás
Rick A. Ricci, source: my book: Mygenes2000

Good luck with your research! As many of us I have more than three lines that go back to Diego Romo de Vivar, which is really more common than we may at first think. I have few Flores ancestors, not clearly related between them. Apparently a real cradle for Romo, Flores, Ruiz de Esparza, Luevano, and others is Aguascalientes and Rincón de Romos is a place to look for roots. Many migrated to Zacatecas very early, when Aguascalientes was not yet a State. Escobedo is more common in Zacatecas.

I easily created my gedcom file in geneanet but to do so you must first create your tree there, then export it as gedcom and save it in your computer, then you can export your gedcom file to other sites. I hope this help to answer your question.

I'm not too sure that the GEDCOM works anymore. I can check with the person who runs the site, but I would assume that it won't work.

Welcome to the group, TM.

Danny

Hello, my parents and grandparents and ancestors came from Villa Obregon. My grandfather Florencio Villalobos had a ranch called "La Campanita" and he went to to Arizona around 1907-1909 with a Mariano Perez and his brother Lucio Perez but my grandfather never returned. He died somewhere in Arizona. My mother lived to 107 yrs. of age and just passed away recently, she told us many stories about Canadas, Jalisco. Did the Mariano Perez you're looking for live around that time?

Steve,

These records do exist, but they weren't microfilmed, they begin in 1796. Isidro and his brother Mariano Perez Rueda, as well as their first cousin Jose de Jesus Muñoz Perez were all baptized in San Juan de los Lagos.
Isidro (1879-1911) and his older brother Mariano (1877-1911) were born in El Papalote near San Juan de los Lagos, they weren't from Cañadas de Obregon. Jose de Jesus was born in 1888. They are from the Perez Franco(de Paredes) lineage, not from the Perez Gallo.

Rick

I read this thread today and feel that part of it comes close to
crossing the line. Anyone who pulls records on a daily basis is well aware
of who there ancestors are, but to pick out a handful and obsessively focus
on their race, ethnicity and religion and talk of conspiracies and
bloodlines using words like pure, not to mention putting down in writing
stereotypes which are already offensive and certainly don't need repeating,
is unnecessary.

Paige

Steve

Today this municipality is pretty small, about 3,500 people. Could it have been too small to have a parish of its own?

Perhaps there are records for it as a branch (or a chapel) of a larger parish? When looking at a map, there are some larger towns with parish churches in the vicinity. The Family Search catalog does not necessarily provide any details on branches/chapels that may be included. I looked at the catalog for Jalostotitlan, as an example, and the catalog gave no information.

Your option would seem to be to peruse the church records for the nearby communities. Records for a branch/chapel could be mixed with the regular parish records, they could be added at the end of a month or year. There is always the unfortunately possibility they are completely out of order, and may be found with another year.

The fact that the filmed civil records date from 1870 is suggestive of a rather small community (although there is always the possibility that earlier records could have been lost).

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Jose Antonio Padilla’s mother is Maria Gallo according to the Jose Antonio’s marriage record. Do you know how much his Maria Gallo is related to Maria Francisca Gallo’s father?

I also have Gallo in my ancestral lines.

Rick A. Ricci

Welcome!

Bienvenido Fernando, ojalá encuentres información útil y ayuda aquí en Nuestros Ranchos.

Saludos,

Bernardo Menchaca

This is a death record, not a birth record.
José Trinidad Ávila is the deceased. He was son of Ysidra Solís and José de Ávila. And he died when he was 86 years old, hence he was an "adulto"
Anastacio de Ávila is the son of José Trinidad, the one who reported the death of his dad. The word is "expuso", which means "he declared/explained".

The record mentions that Carlos had a brother named Juan Baptista Lomelin. That may help.

-Claudia

Is “Juan Marin” that married Elbira (Elvira) Juarez (Xuarez) de Peña Losa the same person as “Juan Marin “, son of Conquistador Capitan Luis Marin and Maria Mendoza? The dates and location fit, same age, same city.

Rick A. Ricci

Buenos dias David,

Just a small comment about the colonial records, regarding your sentence:

"I have seen many examples within these Mexican colonial records were people who are more accurately and originally described as mixed race, appear later in life described as “español”".

Probably you already know but it might be interesting for the rest of the community NR, in the colonial Mexico the "castas" were defined according to the origins of the parents and it was possible to consider a mixed race as "español" after the third generation.

If an "español" married an "india" the children are "mestizos", if a "mestizo" maried an "español" the children were "castizos". If a castizo married an "español", the children were considered "españoles".

That is why some of them appear later in life as "español".

A complete clasification of the "castas" can be found in;

https://www.significados.com/castas-de-la-nueva-espana/

Regards

Jorge

To my knowledge the only source of this info is JH Letters "Juana Navarro, wife of Benito de Isla, was buried in Teocaltiche on 28 Dec 1651. The albaceas of her will were Antonio de Ruvalcaba and Miguel Martínez de Alarcón, vecinos de Teocaltiche. This information was extracted from an unmicrofilmed death record in Teocaltiche." But there is no transcription of what was in the record and no information on who this Benito de Isla was.

David,

Here is what I have -

There were letters between Jaime Holcombe Isunza and Mary Lou Montagna that a lot of what is known or deduced comes from. Mary Lou would go to Mexico and visit the churches to see the documents herself. Mary Lou compiled information from the letters and their findings. This the following is some of what is found in the compilation of the letters.

The Benito de la Isla y Labesares, from Seville, who came in 1557 as a servant to whom was undoubtedly a relative, is my ancestor all right, but one generation before. Because there are documents on the other Benito’s two sisters, living in Nochistlán. The one that came from Spain came alone and single. So how do two sisters suddenly turn up? No way. The following fits in generationwise:

Benito de la Isla y Labesares married N.N.

1. María de la Concepción de Islas, married Juan Delgadillo, a son of Diego Delgadillo and Isabel Calderón.
2. Elvira de Islas, married Joseph González.
3. Benito de Islas, married N.N.

i. María González de Islas, married Cristóbal Martínez Lozano
ii. Magdalena de Labesares, married Francisco González.
iii. Petronila de Islas, who apparently did not marry.

Benito also fathered a natural daughter, María de Islas, mestiza, mother not known.

Additional Data

Juana Navarro, wife of Benito de Isla, was buried in Teocaltiche on 28 Dec 1651. The albaceas of her will were Antonio de Ruvalcaba and Miguel Martínez de Alarcón, vecinos de Teocaltiche. This information was extracted from an unmicrofilmed death record in Teocaltiche.

*****

“Guido de Labazares, vecino y natural de Sevilla, hijo de Sebastián de Labazares y de Catalina de Chaves, con Inés Alvarez, su mujer, vecina de Sevilla; Francisco de Castro y Pedro de Castro, hermanos, naturales de Córdoba, hijos de Luis Fernández y de Leonor de Castro, a Nueva España. Lleva por criados suyos a Benito de la Isla, natural de Sevilla, hijo de Bernardino de Isla y de Magdalena de Labazares; Juana Bernal, doncella, hija de Juan Castaño y de Ana Bernal, vecinos de Sevilla; Tomás, indio, Cristóbal, indio y Beatriz, mestiza.” (Source: Catalogo de Pasajeros a Indias, Vol III 1539-1559, Bermúdez Plata, Cristóbal, p. 268, #3538.)

The parents of Bernardino González de Isla y Labesares were Francisco González and Magdalena de Labesares. He lived 22 May 1617 when was a Godfather in the christening of a niece, in Aguascalientes—the Godmother was Petrona de Isla, his sister-in-law. The child, Leonor, born in “La Labor de Xiconaque,” was the daughter of Cristóbal Martínez Lozano and María de Isla: María was a sister of Magdalena de Labesares and Petrona de Isla.
I don’t know Francisco González’ ancestry. The three sisters mentioned above were the daughters of Benito de Islas and N.N. He also had an illegitimate daughter, a mestiza named María de Isla, identified in the marriage information of 1 Aug 1680, for Pedro Rodríguez and Petrona de Islas. This tree is found in the document:

Benito de Islas

María de Isla, mestiza……….1……. Magdalena de Labesares
hija bastarda md Francisco González

Luisa de Isla…………………2……. Bernardino González de Isla
md Antonio de Aguayo md Mariana Sandoval

Isabel de Aguayo…………… 3……. Juan González de Isla
md José Gutiérrez md Juana Rivera y Velázquez

Francisca Gutiérrez………… 4……. Petrona de Islas, la pretensa
had illicit relations with the
pretenso, Pedro Rodríguez

It probably happened that Francisca de Gabay y Moctezuma, the above María de Isla y Moctezuma and María de Isla aka María González de Isla, married to Cristóbal Martínez Lozano were related through the you know who lineage. The third was a daughter of Benito de la Isla and N.N., who’s father was Benito de la Isla, from Sevilla, passenger to the Indies in 1557 (Ophelia found the entry) and a son of Bernardino de Isla and Magdalena de Labesares. Either the first Benito or the second might have married into the Moctezuma line.
In Mexico City’s Castillo de Chapultepec is an oil painting made in the early 1700s of a woman that descended from the Aztec Emperor and had the surname Isla y Moctezuma. Said lady’s genealogy must have been investigated and is to be found somewhere.

A colleague made an interesting observation on the Moctezuma connection. He said, you don’t have to descend from the Aztec emperor, but perhaps from one of his brothers, there having been several and that have been researched little. It’s still a descent from the Aztec royal family. True.

You can download the compilation from https://www.dropbox.com/s/6invajbk0zzo4jm/Letters%20Edited%20for%20Dist…

Hi David

Very interesting theory! I wish i had info for you, but the Isla line is not one i have ever researched. However, it would be good to get straight, the children of Petronila and Martin. You have found a reference in the forum to 3 daughters and 1 son. I seem to recall a post that named 2 daughters and 2 sons. I just did some searches for that post but cannot find it, so maybe i remember wrong. Could you post the link to the one you found? I am currently going through records from mex city in the late 1550s, if i see the isla name i will post here.

Regards
Denise Fastrup

Welcome!

Hi, I have the same problem. My paternal line lived on/near the Hacienda Trujillo, just west of Fresnillo. The Online Family Search church records go no older than about 1858. My father and step mother lived in the area and they were 'unofficially' told church records before 1860ish were destroyed in the past during the Revolution. I have not been able to confirm this information. I was going to reach out to one of the LDS Family History Centers and inquire as they could have more information about the status of records from before 1860.

When asking for help, it is important to provide as much information as you can . You should add midddle names and any padrinos that you have found in the documents that you have already combed through. Another thing would be to write the different variations of Rubalcava that you have used in your search since there are many abbreviations for this name. The more information that you can provide, the easier it is for someone to pick up the search where you left off.

I found a record with Francisco using Xavier as a middle name. I can’t name how many variations of abbreviations of the Rubalcava I have seen as after a few minutes I can think of another one. Some of the abbreviations include different variations of Gonzalez along with Rubalcava.

It would also be helpful to know the names of the children that you have already found. Providing more specific dates also helps, especially the ages of the youngest child you have found along with the oldest child.

Francisco Xavier Gonzalez de Rubalcava was baptized on 23/October / 1707, in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco, parents Miguel Gonzalez de Rubalcava and Maria Fernández de Rueda. This Francisco Xavier Gonzalez de Rubalcava would have born too late to have children in 1715.

Looking at the dates and location leads me to believe that it is a strong possibility that your Francisco Xabier Gonzalez de Rubalcava is the same person of that name that is the son of Fulgencio González de Rubalcava and Maria Laris that has children with Estefania Alcala.

Rick A. Ricci

1). Lazaro Rodríguez + Ynes Chavez

2). Juan Rodríguez (bap.23Feb 1707) + Andrea Lopes

3).Juan Antonio Bricio Rodriguez + Ana Gregoria Estrada

4). Jose Miguel Rodriguez + Maria Antonia Lopez

5). Juan Ramon Rodriguez + Maria Vicenta Ximenez

6). Maria Antonia Rodriguez + Jesus Rubalcava

7). Maria Carmen Ruvalcava + Terezo Prieto

8). Gerardo Rubalcava y Prieto + Remedios Juarez

9). George J. Prieto y Juarez + Maria Mendez

10). Valerie Prieto y Mendez

Ana Gregoria de Estrada is the daughter of Francisco (?) Estrada and Maria Josepha Prieto. Not sure if the first name is Francisco.

Rick A. Ricci

Valerie

The two in the subject line are my 5th great grandparents.

There is a discrepancy which I would like to know if you can clear up. One of their children was Jose Miguel Rodriguez de Estrada and the Rodriguez patronym carried on through the next generations until my grandfather, Jose Pedro Rodriguez, and then to my mother who also carried the Rodriguez name.

Do you have any information about Juan Antonio Bricio Rodriguez; whether Bricio was his paternal last name; where he was born; who are his ancestors.

Thanks.

Charles Clark
cclarklaw807@pacbell.net

Thank you for all the information, I had hit a brick wall and couldn't go further into the Rubalcava line. I still learning how to use your website but look forward to learning more and more.