Nuestros Ranchos Site

I am also glad to see the actual records from Zacatecas online on the pilot
program.  From Jerez they are marriage dispensation records from la Sagrada
Mitra.  In going through them I have found some errors so don't treat them as
though there are no mistakes since there are after 4 generations. I'm also
smiling at the reasons men give for marrying.. things like she isn't very
attractive and no one else wants her and she's so old! Or my father is ill and I
need someone to take care of him!  There are also reasons like we love each
other...  They put a human face of names, dates and locations.

Linda in Marietta, Ga.

________________________________
From: "anita@torresbrenner.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sun, August 8, 2010 3:28:30 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Zacatecas Catholic Church images are up
pilot.familysearch.com

At last!

Anita Brenner

I registered today to index, I did 2 batches of Zacatecas Census. hopefully this will get us to Jalisco images soon

I would like to access the birth certificate images like in the past and the site is different and I cannot find it. Any help is appreciated.
----- Original Message ----- .

From: Paul J Gomez
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] pilot.familysearch.com - status ofranchos records?

Yes, I am working on indexing and arbitrating, too.

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
anita@torresbrenner.com
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 9:23 AM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] pilot.familysearch.com - status of ranchos
records?

Last year, there was a post about the LDS websitepilot.familysearch.com
which has limited online indexed records and images for and non-indexed
images for Baptisms, Census, Marriages and deaths - and now has image only
access to Catholic church records for Aguascalientes but not Jalisco or
Zacatecas.

What is the current status? Are they going to upload the Zacatecas Catholic
Church records? Is anyone on this list working on indexing?

Thanks!

Anita

Familysearch.com...then search records..then pilot program images only, it gives
you a list and you choose..so wonderful
Linda in Marietta

________________________________
From: "resco16@sbcglobal.net"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sun, August 8, 2010 5:42:58 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Zacatecas

This is exciting!! When it is released, how do we access it???

The extractions now-a-days have the image attached and it gives you
information on the source. Once you have extracted the information all you
have to do is enter the name of the individual and the image will be
available see the pilot site (the 1930 Censo Federal de México). Yes i'm
sure Lynn can get the images for the christening records, but there is a lot
more that can be done.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 5:54 PM, wrote:

> I believe I had made the suggestion some time back about contacting someone
> through the pilot site...about when the records for Jalisco and Zacatecas
> would be made available. I had hoped there would be enough of us to voice
> our request, but needless to say there were few responses to my suggestion.
> I'm glad now we have a name of a person. I, for one have several states that
> I need to look at. I'm not interested in extractions as I need to see the
> real images.
>
> An email would be most appreciated in order to contact the person to get
> the ball rolling.
>
> Thanks
> Rose
>

I am also interested so you can count on me but what about Guanajuato.....all my family is from there and hardly any area from Guanajuato has been posted.

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of rosehardy@hotmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 6:54 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Soon to be released Zacatecas Pilot Records

I believe I had made the suggestion some time back about contacting someone through the pilot site...about when the records for Jalisco and Zacatecas would be made available. I had hoped there would be enough of us to voice our request, but needless to say there were few responses to my suggestion. I'm glad now we have a name of a person. I, for one have several states that I need to look at. I'm not interested in extractions as I need to see the real images.

An email would be most appreciated in order to contact the person to get the ball rolling.

Thanks
Rose

Danniel,

Is it Lynn Turner, or Ismael Orrantia that you spoke with?

On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Santos Luna wrote:

> Hello Daniel...Could you be so kind and provide
> us with the name, and address of this individual that is the number one
> man in the Latin American Division....or better yet, an e-mail address.
>
> Perhaps if we each blast him with an e-mail, that would be over 300 e-mails
> from our group..that ought to get his attention.
>
> --- On Tue, 1/12/10, mendezdelcamino@live.com
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi all, on Sunday after Church we had a fireside and had the honor
> to speak with the head of the Latin America division committee of
> Family Search. For about 3 hours he gave a presentation on how
> to start our genealogy for the all levels of expertise. He's the guy
> in charge on the order of records are released online (at least
> the Spanish speaking countries.) He stated because of constant
> asking for Zacatecas it would be one of the next states to be released
> we could be seeing with in later this year possibly for Zacatecas
> church records online which would be good for all of us! He also
> stated it matters what people want, if no one says we want say Guanajuato
> then he'll just wait. The reason why Chihuahua was released was because
> his ancestors are mostly from Chihuahua, ha ha ha. We as Nuestros
> Ranchos should sign and write up a letter to release Jalisco soon!
> I think with the body of dedicated genealogist we have it would leave an
> impression. Eventhough he said Mexico City (DF) and Jalisco would be
> one of the last ones to be realeased. Because They both were capitals of
> their
> own audencias in Colonial Times. Nueva Galicia and Mejico. It also helps
> if we leave feedback on the pilot site, they actually do check it believe
> it or not. I hope this gives us hope! I know I cant wait for Zacatecas and
> Ill
> explode when Jalisco is finally released! -Daniel Mendez Camino

Helyn, I will be attending along with my sister. At this time I'm not sure
if my brother will be coming with us. I will let you know.
We will be staying at my sisters house, so we don't need a place to stay.
Please let me know how much you will need for the food for the event so that
I can send it to you.
Thank You
Yolanda Caudillio-Wilkerson

----- Original Message -----
From: "Santos Luna"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Soon to be released Zacatecas Pilot Records

Hello Daniel...Could you be so kind and provide
us with the name, and address of this individual that is the number one man
in the Latin American Division....or better yet, an e-mail address.

Perhaps if we each blast him with an e-mail, that would be over 300 e-mails
from our group..that ought to get his attention.

--- On Tue, 1/12/10, mendezdelcamino@live.com
wrote:

Hi all, on Sunday after Church we had a fireside and had the honor
to speak with the head of the Latin America division committee of
Family Search. For about 3 hours he gave a presentation on how
to start our genealogy for the all levels of expertise. He's the guy
in charge on the order of records are released online (at least
the Spanish speaking countries.) He stated because of constant
asking for Zacatecas it would be one of the next states to be released
we could be seeing with in later this year possibly for Zacatecas
church records online which would be good for all of us! He also
stated it matters what people want, if no one says we want say Guanajuato
then he'll just wait. The reason why Chihuahua was released was because
his ancestors are mostly from Chihuahua, ha ha ha. We as Nuestros
Ranchos should sign and write up a letter to release Jalisco soon!
I think with the body of dedicated genealogist we have it would leave an
impression. Eventhough he said Mexico City (DF) and Jalisco would be
one of the last ones to be realeased. Because They both were capitals of
their
own audencias in Colonial Times. Nueva Galicia and Mejico. It also helps
if we leave feedback on the pilot site, they actually do check it believe it
or not. I hope this gives us hope! I know I cant wait for Zacatecas and Ill
explode when Jalisco is finally released! -Daniel Mendez Camino

Count me in, I will also leave feed back in the pilot site regarding Jalisco.

Thank you Daniel,

Dennis

> From: pacoromog@hotmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 20:36:05 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Soon to be released Zacatecas Pilot Records
>
>
> I'm In!!!
>
>
> We should contact Everybody,, and really, really push for it!!!!
>
> why wait for Jalisco ?? I believe is the most researched state isn't it????
>
> Sounds Illogical to me.
>
> Saludos!!!
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From:
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 7:58 PM
> To:
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Soon to be released Zacatecas Pilot Records
>
> > Hi all, on Sunday after Church we had a fireside and had the honor
> > to speak with the head of the Latin America division committee of
> > Family Search. For about 3 hours he gave a presentation on how
> > to start our genealogy for the all levels of expertise. He's the guy
> > in charge on the order of records are released online (at least
> > the Spanish speaking countries.) He stated because of constant
> > asking for Zacatecas it would be one of the next states to be released
> > we could be seeing with in later this year possibly for Zacatecas
> > church records online which would be good for all of us! He also
> > stated it matters what people want, if no one says we want say Guanajuato
> > then he'll just wait. The reason why Chihuahua was released was because
> > his ancestors are mostly from Chihuahua, ha ha ha. We as Nuestros
> > Ranchos should sign and write up a letter to release Jalisco soon!
> > I think with the body of dedicated genealogist we have it would leave an
> > impression. Eventhough he said Mexico City (DF) and Jalisco would be
> > one of the last ones to be realeased. Because They both were capitals of
> > their
> > own audencias in Colonial Times. Nueva Galicia and Mejico. It also helps
> > if we leave feedback on the pilot site, they actually do check it believe
> > it or not. I hope this gives us hope! I know I cant wait for Zacatecas and
> > Ill
> > explode when Jalisco is finally released! -Daniel Mendez Camino
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

El conquistador Francisco de Estrada, aunque nació en Sevilla era de origen asturiano, fue hijo de Juan Sánchez de Estrada, grumete de Cristóbal Colón; en México fue Encomendero de Acatitlán y Mechinango, en la Nueva Galicia. Tuvo un hijo nacido en México que fue Regidor en la capital y se llamó Andrés de Estrada, citado por O´Gorman en su "Catálogo de pobladores..., numero 413. Fue Corregidor de Mexicaltzingo.

Don Andrés de Estrada casó en la ciudad de México con Antonia de Nava (Archivo de la Santa Veracruz, Libro Primero de bautismos, f. 14 vta). Tuvieron un hijo, Bernardino, y una hija, casada con Luis Osorio y tuvieron descendencia (Ver: Dorantes de Carranza, Sumaria Relación...México, 1902, p. 183). Bernardino de Estrada pudo casar con alguna parienta de los Delgadillo (Verdugo Bocanegra)acaso Mejía Bocanegra.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de PacoHernandez73@msn.com
Enviado el: Lunes, 26 de Julio de 2010 08:39 p.m.
Para: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Estrada Bocanegra

Estimado Jorge Luis,

Yo tambin desciendo del connubio entre Joseph de Estrada Bocanegra y Mara Gonzlez de Hjar. Ellos casaron el da lunes, 9 de diciembre de 1715, en la Parroquia de San Francisco de Ass, Pueblo de Tepatitln, Obispado de Guadalajara, Reino de la Nueva Galicia. Despus fueron velados el da lunes, 10 de febrero de 1716, en la misma feligresa. En esta ltima fecha fue dictada la partida matrimonial en el archivo. El documento literalmente dice lo siguiente:

Joseph de Estrada y Mara Gon.s de Hjar, Esp.s de este Pu.o ----- En el Pu.o de S.n Fran.co de Tecp.n a dies das del Mes de febrero de Mil setecientos y dies y seis a.s Vel infacie Ecclesie a Joseph de Estrada Vocanegra, Espaol Vez.o desta felig.a, hijo natural de D.n Domingo de Estrada Vocanegra y de Magd.na Rodrgues; y a Mara Gon.s de Hjar, asi misma Espaola, hija leg.ma de Salbador Gons y de Mariana Rodrg.s de Hjar a q.nes cas el da nuebe de Diz.e del ao prximo pasado de setecientos y quince aviendo antes precedido todas las diligencias dipuestas por el S.to Concilio de Trento, y no resultado de las amontestaciones ningn Ympedim.to como ni tampoco al tiempo de la selebracin de dho Matrim.o; fueron sus Padrinos, Joseph Servantes y Margarita Gon.s de Hjar; testigos Pedro Servantes y Salvador Gons y p.a q conste lo firm Vt supra. . . . Juan Ag.n de Silva (rbrica).

Esta partida matrimonial est localizada en el Microfilm 0218516, Marriages 1686-1735, Tepatitln, Jalisco, Mxico.

Jorge Luis, tienes de casualidad las fechas de nacimiento y de bautizo de todos los hijos de Joseph de Estrada Bocanegra y Mara Gonzlez de Hjar? Yo desciendo de su hija Anna Mara de Estrada, que celebr nupcias con Juan Gernimo Corts, el 25 de febrero de 1745, en Tepatitln.

Mis investigaciones sobre el origen del apellido neogallego de Estrada Bocanegra, me impulsaron a instruirme de mentes con ms experiencia que yo. He consultado las famosas hojas de grupos de familia de Jaime Holcobe Isunza (1941-1995) e inclusive sus cartas y correspondencia personal. Tambin, he examinado datos del eminente genealogista alteo, Don Mariano Gonzlez Leal. Cuando fui a su casa en Len, me mostr informaciones sobre la familia Estrada Bocanegra, y despus fue tan amable en mandarme el captulo de dicha familia tal y como aparecer en su muy esperado libro, Retoos de Espaa en la Nueva Galicia. Lamentablemente, ya no tengo en mi posesin dicho captulo porque la computadora en que lo tena archivado tuvo un derrumbe del procesador interno, y perd todo lo que tena en ese sistema. Pero s tengo los datos principales.

Primero, leamos las palabras del apreciable seor Jaime Holcombe Isunza, tal y como las escribi en ingls:

September 1993
On 28 Feb 1649 were wed: Bernardino de Estrada y Flores, hijo de Andrs de Estrada y Bocanegra y Luisa Flores Rubn, con Mariana de Portugal, hija de Diego Gmez de Portugal, difunto y Mara de Arrona. Los testigos fueron Alonso de Castro, Pedro de Anda y Pedro Arias Pardo. The husband also used the name Bernardino de Estrada y Nava and was baptized in Guadalajara 7 June 1621.
No seed from this marriage has been found, so I think Mariana de Portugal died soon after.
Bernardino fathered a natural son, Baltasar de Estrada Bocanegra, mother not known, probably before his second matrimony. That offspring settled in Nochistln and there married. One of his sons became a priesthave his moribus et vita file from the Ordenes Sacerdotales records in the Guadalajara Diocese. It includes the cited illegitimacy.
Towards 1660, Bernardino remarried in Lagos to Mara Valderrama. Two sons found. One married twice, in Compostela and Ameca, and had an illegitimate son in Teocaltiche, whose descendants were located in Tepatitln. (pg. 84)

The actas of Guadalajaras Cabildo has information about Pedro Alvarez de Trujillo, the citys alcalde, the house that Juan de Trujillo bequeathed to his heirs, and other persons that I have records of. This Juan was deceased in 1612. He likely was your known ancestor, Juan Trujillos father, married in 1614.
The Archivo General de Indias in Sevilla, Guadalajara section, might have the expediente de Mritos y Servicios a la Corona for Andrs de Estrada Bocanegra. Whats in the Actas de Cabildo on him was unknown to mehis 1622 position which was void, and his having been the mayordomo from 1642 to 1652.
In Teocaltiche, 23 Jan 1659 married Alonso Padilla and Beatriz Estrada. Padrinos were Bernardino de Estrada and Luisa Flores. A son and the wife of Andrs de Estrada Bocanegra. Your new information indicates that he died around 1652 or 3, the reason why his last tenure as the mayordomo was in 1652. The widow, Ana Flores Rubn, moved to Teocaltiche, perhaps, when her son Andrs was the Priest. At least she was there in 1659.
I havent seen Guadalajara death records for that epoch. His obituary will inform with what Notary he made his testament. The document will name his parents, which we dont know. An easier, surer route than seeking for a clue in Spanish records that isnt certain existed. It just requires two microfilms: Guadalajara deaths records 1652+ and the Protocols of the scribe for the year stated in the death record. Oh, how I hope that Andrs passed away in Guadalajara! (pg. 153)

Corrections regarding Andrs de Estrada Bocanegra, el mayor, el menor and Luisa Flores Rubn.
Christened in Guadalajara 4 July 1618, Andrs de Estrada Bocanegra y Flores, a priest, had taken over the Teocaltiche parish by 1648, as found in the confirmation records. I had thought he had married, widowed and then became a priest.
The record of the second marriage, in Aguascalientes 19 September 1683 of Andrs Lpez Muoz de Nava y Tiscareo, viudo of Antonia Romo de Vivar y de los Angeles, reads that the bride was Mara de Orozco y Santa Cruz, from San Luis Potos, a legitimate daughter of Andrs de Estrada and Ana Orozco y Santa Cruz, deceased. In the baptisms of her numerous children, shes named Mara de EstradaBocanegra not once. The composite surname is used in marriage dispensas of her descendants.
In Sierra de Pinos, 20 July 1640 were married Don Andrs de Estrada and Doa Ana Orozco y Santa Cruz, and on 2 June 1642 they baptized a daughter, Juana, after which theyre no longer in the Pinos records. Supposing that Mara was born in 1644, she would have wed at age 39 and been 15 years older than the husband, baptized 12 January 1659, first married 21 May 1679. Even worse, the last child, Fernando, was baptized 12 June 1707, when his mother was old enough to be a Grandmother (63)?!
The ancestors believed Ill or well end up with were from Guadalajara, a Pedro Estrada Bocanegra, probably the brother of Andrs the elder. He married 22 January 1606 to Beatriz Daz de Pangua. And their firstborn, baptized there on 9 December 1607 was named Andrs. He could have married in Pinos at the age of 33. (pg. 174)

As opin Don Jaime sobre este tema. Como pueden ver, nuestro Bernardino de Estrada Bocanegra, efectivamente fue hijo de Andrs de Estrada Bocanegra y de Luisa Flores Rubn, quien fue bautizado en Guadalajara, el 7 de junio de 1621. Estuvo casado en primeras nupcias con Mariana Gmez de Portugal, pero al terminar este connubio sin prole, pas a segundas nupcias con Mara de Valderrama, supuestamente en Teocaltiche, pero no est entre las partidas de matrimonios. Bernardino de Estrada Bocanegra y su segunda mujer, Mara de Valderrama, procrearon hacia 1663 a Domingo de Estrada Bocanegra, quien engendr un hijo natural llamado Joseph de Estrada Bocanegra, en una mujer llamada Magdalena Rodrguez, quienes aparecen en el acta tepatitlense mencionada al principio.

Don Mariano aade que Andrs de Estrada Bocanegra, quien falleci en 1652 o 1653, fue hijo de Bernardino de Estrada y de Beatriz de Nava Bocanegra. Estos personajes, vecinos de Guadalajara a finales del Siglo XVI, fueron los patriarcas de la familia Estrada Bocanegra. Esto tambin explica porque Bernardino us a veces los apellidos de Estrada y Nava. Le provenan de sus abuelos paternos.

Bernardino de Estrada y Beatriz de Nava Bocanegra fueron padres de: (1) Bernardino de Estrada Bocanegra quien cas con Ana Cisneros; (2) Pedro de Estrada Bocanegra quien cas con Beatriz Daz de Pangua, hija de Diego Lpez Picasso y de Mara Daz de Paniagua, el 22 de enero de 1606, en Guadalajara; y (3) Andrs de Estrada Bocanegra quien cas con Luisa Flores Rubn, hija de Pedro lvarez de Trujillo y de Anna Flores Rubn, hija esta de Francisco Prez Rubn (de muy probable origen judo) y Francisca Flores, hacia 1614, en Guadalajara. Luisa Flores Rub/Rubn y su hijo Bernardino de Estrada aparecen como testigos en el matrimonio de Alonso Padilla e Isabel de Estrada, celebrado en Teocaltiche el 23 de enero de 1659.

Pero como haba mencionado, esto es todo lo que tengo porque mi computadora tuvo un crash y perd todo lo que tena en aquel sistema, que inclua muchsimos captulos del nuevo libro de Don Mariano. Maana le llamo por telfono a su casa o a la notara para saber su nuevo email que hace poco le mand un uno, y se regres, tal vez por ser un domicilio obsoleto.

Espero que te haya servido de algo y que haya respondido tus preguntas sobre una de nuestras familias, que lo es Estrada Bocanegra.

Un fuerte abrazo,
Paco
Steven Francisco Hernndez Lpez

wOW ni puedes imaginarte, yo tenia todos estos sospechos en mi cabeza

y en mis archivos! El Andres que caso en Pinos, los del Guadalajara,

Aguascalientes. Tenia todo esto pero no podia conectarlo. Gracias Steven.

Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: PacoHernandez73@msn.com
> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 01:39:13 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Estrada Bocanegra
>
> Estimado Jorge Luis,
>
> Yo también desciendo del connubio entre Joseph de Estrada Bocanegra y María González de Híjar. Ellos casaron el día lunes, 9 de diciembre de 1715, en la Parroquia de San Francisco de Asís, Pueblo de Tepatitlán, Obispado de Guadalajara, Reino de la Nueva Galicia. Después fueron velados el día lunes, 10 de febrero de 1716, en la misma feligresía. En esta última fecha fue dictada la partida matrimonial en el archivo. El documento literalmente dice lo siguiente:
>
> “Joseph de Estrada y María Gon.s de Híjar, Esp.s de este Pu.o ----- En el Pu.o de S.n Fran.co de Tecp.n a dies días del Mes de febrero de Mil setecientos y dies y seis a.s Velé infacie Ecclesie a Joseph de Estrada Vocanegra, Español Vez.o desta felig.a, hijo natural de D.n Domingo de Estrada Vocanegra y de Magd.na Rodrígues; y a María Gon.s de Híjar, asi misma Española, hija leg.ma de Salbador Gons y de Mariana Rodríg.s de Híjar a q.nes casé el día nuebe de Diz.e del año próximo pasado de setecientos y quince aviendo antes precedido todas las diligencias dipuestas por el S.to Concilio de Trento, y no resultado de las amontestaciones ningún Ympedim.to como ni tampoco al tiempo de la selebración de dho Matrim.o; fueron sus Padrinos, Joseph Servantes y Margarita Gon.s de Híjar; testigos Pedro Servantes y Salvador Gons y p.a q conste lo firmé Vt supra. . . . Juan Ag.n de Silva (rúbrica).”
>
> Esta partida matrimonial está localizada en el Microfilm 0218516, Marriages 1686-1735, Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México.
>
> Jorge Luis, ¿tienes de casualidad las fechas de nacimiento y de bautizo de todos los hijos de Joseph de Estrada Bocanegra y María González de Híjar? Yo desciendo de su hija Anna María de Estrada, que celebró nupcias con Juan Gerónimo Cortés, el 25 de febrero de 1745, en Tepatitlán.
>
> Mis investigaciones sobre el origen del apellido neogallego de Estrada Bocanegra, me impulsaron a instruirme de mentes con más experiencia que yo. He consultado las famosas hojas de grupos de familia de Jaime Holcobe Isunza † (1941-1995) e inclusive sus cartas y correspondencia personal. También, he examinado datos del eminente genealogista alteño, Don Mariano González Leal. Cuando fui a su casa en León, me mostró informaciones sobre la familia Estrada Bocanegra, y después fue tan amable en mandarme el capítulo de dicha familia tal y como aparecerá en su muy esperado libro, Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia. Lamentablemente, ya no tengo en mi posesión dicho capítulo porque la computadora en que lo tenía archivado tuvo un derrumbe del procesador interno, y perdí todo lo que tenía en ese sistema. Pero sí tengo los datos principales.
>
> Primero, leamos las palabras del apreciable señor Jaime Holcombe Isunza, tal y como las escribió en inglés:
>
> “September 1993
> On 28 Feb 1649 were wed: “Bernardino de Estrada y Flores, hijo de Andrés de Estrada y Bocanegra y Luisa Flores Rubín, con Mariana de Portugal, hija de Diego Gómez de Portugal, difunto y María de Arrona. Los testigos fueron Alonso de Castro, Pedro de Anda y Pedro Arias Pardo.” The husband also used the name Bernardino de Estrada y Nava and was baptized in Guadalajara 7 June 1621.
> No seed from this marriage has been found, so I think Mariana de Portugal died soon after.
> Bernardino fathered a natural son, Baltasar de Estrada Bocanegra, mother not known, probably before his second matrimony. That offspring settled in Nochistlán and there married. One of his sons became a priest—have his “moribus et vita” file from the Ordenes Sacerdotales records in the Guadalajara Diocese. It includes the cited illegitimacy.
> Towards 1660, Bernardino remarried in Lagos to María Valderrama. Two sons found. One married twice, in Compostela and Ameca, and had an illegitimate son in Teocaltiche, whose descendants were located in Tepatitlán. (pg. 84)
>
> The actas of Guadalajara’s Cabildo has information about Pedro Alvarez de Trujillo, the city’s alcalde, the house that Juan de Trujillo bequeathed to his heirs, and other persons that I have records of. This Juan was deceased in 1612. He likely was your known ancestor, Juan Trujillo’s father, married in 1614.
> The Archivo General de Indias in Sevilla, Guadalajara section, might have the expediente de Méritos y Servicios a la Corona for Andrés de Estrada Bocanegra. What’s in the Actas de Cabildo on him was unknown to me—his 1622 position which was void, and his having been the mayordomo from 1642 to 1652.
> In Teocaltiche, 23 Jan 1659 married Alonso Padilla and Beatriz Estrada. Padrinos were Bernardino de Estrada and Luisa Flores. A son and the wife of Andrés de Estrada Bocanegra. Your new information indicates that he died around 1652 or 3, the reason why his last tenure as the mayordomo was in 1652. The widow, Ana Flores Rubín, moved to Teocaltiche, perhaps, when her son Andrés was the Priest. At least she was there in 1659.
> I haven’t seen Guadalajara death records for that epoch. His obituary will inform with what Notary he made his testament. The document will name his parents, which we don’t know. An easier, surer route than seeking for a clue in Spanish records that isn’t certain existed. It just requires two microfilms: Guadalajara deaths records 1652+ and the Protocols of the scribe for the year stated in the death record. Oh, how I hope that Andrés passed away in Guadalajara! (pg. 153)
>
> Corrections regarding Andrés de Estrada Bocanegra, “el mayor,” “el menor” and Luisa Flores Rubín.
> Christened in Guadalajara 4 July 1618, Andrés de Estrada Bocanegra y Flores, a priest, had taken over the Teocaltiche parish by 1648, as found in the confirmation records. I had thought he had married, widowed and then became a priest.
> The record of the second marriage, in Aguascalientes 19 September 1683 of Andrés López Muñoz de Nava y Tiscareño, viudo of Antonia Romo de Vivar y de los Angeles, reads that the bride was María de Orozco y Santa Cruz, from San Luis Potosí, a legitimate daughter of Andrés de Estrada and Ana Orozco y Santa Cruz, deceased. In the baptisms of her numerous children, she’s named María de Estrada—Bocanegra not once. The composite surname is used in marriage dispensas of her descendants.
> In Sierra de Pinos, 20 July 1640 were married Don Andrés de Estrada and Doña Ana Orozco y Santa Cruz, and on 2 June 1642 they baptized a daughter, Juana, after which they’re no longer in the Pinos records. Supposing that María was born in 1644, she would have wed at age 39 and been 15 years older than the husband, baptized 12 January 1659, first married 21 May 1679. Even worse, the last child, Fernando, was baptized 12 June 1707, when his “mother” was old enough to be a Grandmother (63)?!
> The ancestors believed I’ll or we’ll end up with were from Guadalajara, a Pedro Estrada Bocanegra, probably the brother of Andrés ”the elder.” He married 22 January 1606 to Beatriz Díaz de Pangua. And their firstborn, baptized there on 9 December 1607 was named Andrés. He could have married in Pinos at the age of 33. (pg. 174)”
>
> Así opinó Don Jaime sobre este tema. Como pueden ver, nuestro Bernardino de Estrada Bocanegra, efectivamente fue hijo de Andrés de Estrada Bocanegra y de Luisa Flores Rubín, quien fue bautizado en Guadalajara, el 7 de junio de 1621. Estuvo casado en primeras nupcias con Mariana Gómez de Portugal, pero al terminar este connubio sin prole, pasó a segundas nupcias con María de Valderrama, supuestamente en Teocaltiche, pero no está entre las partidas de matrimonios. Bernardino de Estrada Bocanegra y su segunda mujer, María de Valderrama, procrearon hacia 1663 a Domingo de Estrada Bocanegra, quien engendró un hijo natural llamado Joseph de Estrada Bocanegra, en una mujer llamada Magdalena Rodríguez, quienes aparecen en el acta tepatitlense mencionada al principio.
>
> Don Mariano añade que Andrés de Estrada Bocanegra, quien falleció en 1652 o 1653, fue hijo de Bernardino de Estrada y de Beatriz de Nava Bocanegra. Estos personajes, vecinos de Guadalajara a finales del Siglo XVI, fueron los patriarcas de la familia Estrada Bocanegra. Esto también explica porque Bernardino usó a veces los apellidos de Estrada y Nava. Le provenían de sus abuelos paternos.
>
> Bernardino de Estrada y Beatriz de Nava Bocanegra fueron padres de: (1) Bernardino de Estrada Bocanegra quien casó con Ana Cisneros; (2) Pedro de Estrada Bocanegra quien casó con Beatriz Díaz de Pangua, hija de Diego López Picasso y de María Díaz de Paniagua, el 22 de enero de 1606, en Guadalajara; y (3) Andrés de Estrada Bocanegra quien casó con Luisa Flores Rubín, hija de Pedro Álvarez de Trujillo y de Anna Flores Rubín, hija esta de Francisco Pérez Rubín (de muy probable origen judío) y Francisca Flores, hacia 1614, en Guadalajara. Luisa Flores Rubí/Rubín y su hijo Bernardino de Estrada aparecen como testigos en el matrimonio de Alonso Padilla e Isabel de Estrada, celebrado en Teocaltiche el 23 de enero de 1659.
>
> Pero como había mencionado, esto es todo lo que tengo porque mi computadora tuvo un “crash” y perdí todo lo que tenía en aquel sistema, que incluía muchísimos capítulos del nuevo libro de Don Mariano. Mañana le llamo por teléfono a su casa o a la notaría para saber su nuevo email que hace poco le mandé un uno, y se regresó, tal vez por ser un domicilio obsoleto.
>
> Espero que te haya servido de algo y que haya respondido tus preguntas sobre una de nuestras familias, que lo es Estrada Bocanegra.
>
> Un fuerte abrazo,
> Paco
> Steven Francisco Hernández López

Hola, esto es muy intresante, no sabes mas de los Flores Rubin o de los

Alvarez de Trujillo. Estuve pensando que los Flores Rubin vienen

de los Flores de la Torre, que se ha escrito en Retonos.

Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: PacoHernandez73@msn.com
> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 01:39:13 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Estrada Bocanegra
>
> Estimado Jorge Luis,
>
> Yo también desciendo del connubio entre Joseph de Estrada Bocanegra y María González de Híjar. Ellos casaron el día lunes, 9 de diciembre de 1715, en la Parroquia de San Francisco de Asís, Pueblo de Tepatitlán, Obispado de Guadalajara, Reino de la Nueva Galicia. Después fueron velados el día lunes, 10 de febrero de 1716, en la misma feligresía. En esta última fecha fue dictada la partida matrimonial en el archivo. El documento literalmente dice lo siguiente:
>
> “Joseph de Estrada y María Gon.s de Híjar, Esp.s de este Pu.o ----- En el Pu.o de S.n Fran.co de Tecp.n a dies días del Mes de febrero de Mil setecientos y dies y seis a.s Velé infacie Ecclesie a Joseph de Estrada Vocanegra, Español Vez.o desta felig.a, hijo natural de D.n Domingo de Estrada Vocanegra y de Magd.na Rodrígues; y a María Gon.s de Híjar, asi misma Española, hija leg.ma de Salbador Gons y de Mariana Rodríg.s de Híjar a q.nes casé el día nuebe de Diz.e del año próximo pasado de setecientos y quince aviendo antes precedido todas las diligencias dipuestas por el S.to Concilio de Trento, y no resultado de las amontestaciones ningún Ympedim.to como ni tampoco al tiempo de la selebración de dho Matrim.o; fueron sus Padrinos, Joseph Servantes y Margarita Gon.s de Híjar; testigos Pedro Servantes y Salvador Gons y p.a q conste lo firmé Vt supra. . . . Juan Ag.n de Silva (rúbrica).”
>
> Esta partida matrimonial está localizada en el Microfilm 0218516, Marriages 1686-1735, Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México.
>
> Jorge Luis, ¿tienes de casualidad las fechas de nacimiento y de bautizo de todos los hijos de Joseph de Estrada Bocanegra y María González de Híjar? Yo desciendo de su hija Anna María de Estrada, que celebró nupcias con Juan Gerónimo Cortés, el 25 de febrero de 1745, en Tepatitlán.
>
> Mis investigaciones sobre el origen del apellido neogallego de Estrada Bocanegra, me impulsaron a instruirme de mentes con más experiencia que yo. He consultado las famosas hojas de grupos de familia de Jaime Holcobe Isunza † (1941-1995) e inclusive sus cartas y correspondencia personal. También, he examinado datos del eminente genealogista alteño, Don Mariano González Leal. Cuando fui a su casa en León, me mostró informaciones sobre la familia Estrada Bocanegra, y después fue tan amable en mandarme el capítulo de dicha familia tal y como aparecerá en su muy esperado libro, Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia. Lamentablemente, ya no tengo en mi posesión dicho capítulo porque la computadora en que lo tenía archivado tuvo un derrumbe del procesador interno, y perdí todo lo que tenía en ese sistema. Pero sí tengo los datos principales.
>
> Primero, leamos las palabras del apreciable señor Jaime Holcombe Isunza, tal y como las escribió en inglés:
>
> “September 1993
> On 28 Feb 1649 were wed: “Bernardino de Estrada y Flores, hijo de Andrés de Estrada y Bocanegra y Luisa Flores Rubín, con Mariana de Portugal, hija de Diego Gómez de Portugal, difunto y María de Arrona. Los testigos fueron Alonso de Castro, Pedro de Anda y Pedro Arias Pardo.” The husband also used the name Bernardino de Estrada y Nava and was baptized in Guadalajara 7 June 1621.
> No seed from this marriage has been found, so I think Mariana de Portugal died soon after.
> Bernardino fathered a natural son, Baltasar de Estrada Bocanegra, mother not known, probably before his second matrimony. That offspring settled in Nochistlán and there married. One of his sons became a priest—have his “moribus et vita” file from the Ordenes Sacerdotales records in the Guadalajara Diocese. It includes the cited illegitimacy.
> Towards 1660, Bernardino remarried in Lagos to María Valderrama. Two sons found. One married twice, in Compostela and Ameca, and had an illegitimate son in Teocaltiche, whose descendants were located in Tepatitlán. (pg. 84)
>
> The actas of Guadalajara’s Cabildo has information about Pedro Alvarez de Trujillo, the city’s alcalde, the house that Juan de Trujillo bequeathed to his heirs, and other persons that I have records of. This Juan was deceased in 1612. He likely was your known ancestor, Juan Trujillo’s father, married in 1614.
> The Archivo General de Indias in Sevilla, Guadalajara section, might have the expediente de Méritos y Servicios a la Corona for Andrés de Estrada Bocanegra. What’s in the Actas de Cabildo on him was unknown to me—his 1622 position which was void, and his having been the mayordomo from 1642 to 1652.
> In Teocaltiche, 23 Jan 1659 married Alonso Padilla and Beatriz Estrada. Padrinos were Bernardino de Estrada and Luisa Flores. A son and the wife of Andrés de Estrada Bocanegra. Your new information indicates that he died around 1652 or 3, the reason why his last tenure as the mayordomo was in 1652. The widow, Ana Flores Rubín, moved to Teocaltiche, perhaps, when her son Andrés was the Priest. At least she was there in 1659.
> I haven’t seen Guadalajara death records for that epoch. His obituary will inform with what Notary he made his testament. The document will name his parents, which we don’t know. An easier, surer route than seeking for a clue in Spanish records that isn’t certain existed. It just requires two microfilms: Guadalajara deaths records 1652+ and the Protocols of the scribe for the year stated in the death record. Oh, how I hope that Andrés passed away in Guadalajara! (pg. 153)
>
> Corrections regarding Andrés de Estrada Bocanegra, “el mayor,” “el menor” and Luisa Flores Rubín.
> Christened in Guadalajara 4 July 1618, Andrés de Estrada Bocanegra y Flores, a priest, had taken over the Teocaltiche parish by 1648, as found in the confirmation records. I had thought he had married, widowed and then became a priest.
> The record of the second marriage, in Aguascalientes 19 September 1683 of Andrés López Muñoz de Nava y Tiscareño, viudo of Antonia Romo de Vivar y de los Angeles, reads that the bride was María de Orozco y Santa Cruz, from San Luis Potosí, a legitimate daughter of Andrés de Estrada and Ana Orozco y Santa Cruz, deceased. In the baptisms of her numerous children, she’s named María de Estrada—Bocanegra not once. The composite surname is used in marriage dispensas of her descendants.
> In Sierra de Pinos, 20 July 1640 were married Don Andrés de Estrada and Doña Ana Orozco y Santa Cruz, and on 2 June 1642 they baptized a daughter, Juana, after which they’re no longer in the Pinos records. Supposing that María was born in 1644, she would have wed at age 39 and been 15 years older than the husband, baptized 12 January 1659, first married 21 May 1679. Even worse, the last child, Fernando, was baptized 12 June 1707, when his “mother” was old enough to be a Grandmother (63)?!
> The ancestors believed I’ll or we’ll end up with were from Guadalajara, a Pedro Estrada Bocanegra, probably the brother of Andrés ”the elder.” He married 22 January 1606 to Beatriz Díaz de Pangua. And their firstborn, baptized there on 9 December 1607 was named Andrés. He could have married in Pinos at the age of 33. (pg. 174)”
>
> Así opinó Don Jaime sobre este tema. Como pueden ver, nuestro Bernardino de Estrada Bocanegra, efectivamente fue hijo de Andrés de Estrada Bocanegra y de Luisa Flores Rubín, quien fue bautizado en Guadalajara, el 7 de junio de 1621. Estuvo casado en primeras nupcias con Mariana Gómez de Portugal, pero al terminar este connubio sin prole, pasó a segundas nupcias con María de Valderrama, supuestamente en Teocaltiche, pero no está entre las partidas de matrimonios. Bernardino de Estrada Bocanegra y su segunda mujer, María de Valderrama, procrearon hacia 1663 a Domingo de Estrada Bocanegra, quien engendró un hijo natural llamado Joseph de Estrada Bocanegra, en una mujer llamada Magdalena Rodríguez, quienes aparecen en el acta tepatitlense mencionada al principio.
>
> Don Mariano añade que Andrés de Estrada Bocanegra, quien falleció en 1652 o 1653, fue hijo de Bernardino de Estrada y de Beatriz de Nava Bocanegra. Estos personajes, vecinos de Guadalajara a finales del Siglo XVI, fueron los patriarcas de la familia Estrada Bocanegra. Esto también explica porque Bernardino usó a veces los apellidos de Estrada y Nava. Le provenían de sus abuelos paternos.
>
> Bernardino de Estrada y Beatriz de Nava Bocanegra fueron padres de: (1) Bernardino de Estrada Bocanegra quien casó con Ana Cisneros; (2) Pedro de Estrada Bocanegra quien casó con Beatriz Díaz de Pangua, hija de Diego López Picasso y de María Díaz de Paniagua, el 22 de enero de 1606, en Guadalajara; y (3) Andrés de Estrada Bocanegra quien casó con Luisa Flores Rubín, hija de Pedro Álvarez de Trujillo y de Anna Flores Rubín, hija esta de Francisco Pérez Rubín (de muy probable origen judío) y Francisca Flores, hacia 1614, en Guadalajara. Luisa Flores Rubí/Rubín y su hijo Bernardino de Estrada aparecen como testigos en el matrimonio de Alonso Padilla e Isabel de Estrada, celebrado en Teocaltiche el 23 de enero de 1659.
>
> Pero como había mencionado, esto es todo lo que tengo porque mi computadora tuvo un “crash” y perdí todo lo que tenía en aquel sistema, que incluía muchísimos capítulos del nuevo libro de Don Mariano. Mañana le llamo por teléfono a su casa o a la notaría para saber su nuevo email que hace poco le mandé un uno, y se regresó, tal vez por ser un domicilio obsoleto.
>
> Espero que te haya servido de algo y que haya respondido tus preguntas sobre una de nuestras familias, que lo es Estrada Bocanegra.
>
> Un fuerte abrazo,
> Paco
> Steven Francisco Hernández López

el "ditto" !

Jose Carlos de Leon

> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:52:51 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] To post

_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=…

I too ran into the Gregorio problem, in my records I decided it would be best just to add
him as Joseph Gregorio Patricio Asencio Gomez de Mendoza

Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon

Varios meses en el pasado, hubo una pregunta acerca Josefa Beas, y Juan Thadeo Salas. Ahora he encontrado la línea en mi base de datos paterno He encontrado dos hijos con los registros de matrimonio en Totatiche, Jalisco, 1775 y 1872.
 
Lo siento, no he sido capaz de localizar la personal original en Nuestro's Rancho's que con la pregunta
 
Parece que tenemos antepasados comunes, y ahora puedo compartir la información sobre nuestra línea familiar.
 
Several months ago, there was an inquiry on Josefa Beas, and Juan Thadeo Salas. I have now found the line in my paternal data base.

I have found two son’s with marriage records in Totatiche, Jalisco, 1775 and 1872. I’m sorry, I have not been able to locate the original posting on Nuestro's Rancho's, or the person who posted.  It appears that we have common
ancestors, and I can now share the information on our family line.
 
Helyn
San Jose, CA

This past spring while on a visit to Degollado Jalisco, we had occasion to meet an elderly retired priest, who is a friend of distant relatives. The question of illegitimacy/hijo de dios/hija de iglesia came up. It reminded me of similar  threads that ran on these pages several years ago. Some posted comments expressing surprize that "there were so many loose women" in that conservative era. The elderly priest (87 yrs. old) shed some interesting light on this topic. He stated that in the 1700/1800's  it was not uncommon for men of "higher classes" to kidnap and rape women of "lower class". He stated this practice occurred with impudence, these "men" knowing there was virtually no chance of retribution/justice being done. He stated that there were even many popular "corridos" romanticising these cowards and their repugnant behaviours. He said the phrase  "fue llevada" was commonly used to describe the victim and what had happened to her.
Often these rapes resulted in pregnancy and terms such as "hijo/a illegitimo or
 "natural" were used to label their children. The priest also said the term "hijo/a de Dios" was used when a child was fathered by a member of the clergy. A practise only somewhat less repugnant.  I personally am not qualified to pass judgement on the veracity of this old gentleman's statements but thought I'd share this with the group in view of these recent postings.

Alice,

I found something that may be useful. Using www.geneanet I found a Martin
Arrambide y Arza married to Antonia Glz. There is a person that lives in
France that has an email address referencing Zacatecas. You should contact
her. That entry also let me know there is a possible change of spelling for
Arse. At http://snae.org/CRIS/busqueda.es.php I found a marriage between
Miguel Arrambide and Virgida Yarza 1735-07-25 in Pasaia, Gipuzkoa, País
Vasco. http://snae.org/CRIS/ficha.es.php?id=178974&s=matrimonio They could
be the parents of Martín. I also found a baptism for a child of the previous
couple. Her name was Maria Rosa Arrambide Yarza baptized 1736-05-24.
http://snae.org/CRIS/ficha.es.php?id=764980&s=bautismo She could be a sister
to Martín. If that info coincides with anything you have and you can't get
copies at the FHC you can order them at http://mendezmende.org/es/partidas/

Arrambide is a very uncommon Basque surname native to Navarra which,
although of a Basque culture, is not part of País Vasco. From a website I
found it seems you really need to make a trip to Spain to research them
more. Since you have so many ancestors there it might be of value to make
that trip, That website is
http://www.antzinako.org/GuiaBusqueda?prov=Nafarroa

I have two new stories I'dI like to share. I had my tree at a genealogy site
and a person contacted me saying they were a distant relative from Spain. It
turns out her mother is my 5th cousin based on all the info we both had. She
has been very detailed in her research as I have been. She also told me the
family passed on the history, from generation to generation, that they had
relatives that had gone to Mexico and her grandmother would tell her about
that. Basically we were always in their memory and they have finally found
us. This is even after my uncle had gone to Spain and had even been hung up
on by people when he called people with the same surname.

Another story is that I was researching my wife's genealogy and adding the
info to another genealogy website when all of the sudden matches came up
with everything equal. I was able to verify everything they had thanks to
the availability of the digitalized church records of Mexico and the SNAE
website. It turns out my wife also has Basque ancestry from Vizcaya.

Facebook has been helpful also. I found distant relatives through that site
also. Most people don't want to receive messages but accept friending and if
you friend all of the and sooner or later you will happen upon those that
are looking for family connections. Just don't make your info public by
making it available only to friends and limit what you put on there.

The moral to those stories is keep trying and put your trees up on all of
the genealogy websites there are and also search them and sooner or later
something may come up.

Armando

On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

>
> I'm thrilled to hear that group members have been successful researching in
> Europe. Therefore, this goes out again to anyone in the group that has made
> the successful jump in research from Mexico back to Spain with verifiable
> documentation.
>
> At this point in time, I have three ancestors whose 1700's Mx records
> indicate they are from Spain, and my search has ended there. They are Juan
> Fermin Santelices from Santander, Domingo Antonio Rubio from Sevilla, and
> Juan Martin Arrambide y Arse, Spain.
> I have two sets of parents: Tomas Santelices and Ma Antonia Ibanez and
> Juan Rubio and Magdelena Godoy.
> Using PARES, I can find a Juan Santelices, Antonio Rubio,etc. in the right
> time frame and the right place in Spain, but based on my previous research
> in Mx, there are always contemporaries with the same names. So the question
> is how do you know that these are the ancestors you are looking for and not
> some one else with the same name, as always occurs?
> Aside from IGI Spain, which is very limited, where do you find and access
> baptismal, marriage, or death records to verify you are dealing with the
> right persons?
> Thanks so much for your help, Alice
>
> --- On Sat, 7/24/10, mygenes2000@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Searching for ancestors in Spain
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Saturday, July 24, 2010, 1:49 AM
>
>
> Who are the people that you are looking for? I suppose that a lot of us are
> searching in Spain and you may be looking for someone that we have already
> found.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>