mixture of clans
Up to now the purest according to dna were the irish. They did not mix with other cultures the way the iberians did. I say up to now but I mean yesterday.
Comments
Some of you wrote about the French. The French were in the Zacatecas area during the Maximiliano days in the 1860's.
When I scrolled through rolls of micro film at the Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints Family History Center, I was browsing through the Defuntos of the mid 1800's of Huejuquilla El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico, our pueblo.
I found one relative by the name of Pablo Madera that was listed as, "Se Murio En La Guerra." Year 1862. What Guerra was happening in 1862?
Anyway, I met one of the political people of our pueblo who is tall, wheres a cowboy hat and he told me that his ancestors where from the french. He has two daughters that have dark redish hair and blue eyes. But they all got married.
I would say the French influence came at the time when they were present in the mid 1800's.
Another thing, one of the other family names in our pueblo of Huejuquilla is "MONROY."
Is that French?
In 1862 the guerra could be either guerra de la Reforma or the French intervention. The Frenchhave actually been present since the days of la Conquista. Along with Cortes, many were frenchmentrying to strike wealth in the new world. Monrroy is very Spanish not French. Hernan Cortes isalso a member of the House of Monrroy. Red hair and blue eyes can be present anywhere in Europeso its not necessarily France. A typical stereotype is red hair=irish; not true. I have a friend fromChihuahua, his last name is Renteria and is a red head.
Regards,Daniel
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I thought I read somewhere that the Monroy and Mondragon were Basque.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: zacatecano020@hotmail.com
> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:15 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
>
> Some of you wrote about the French. The French were in the Zacatecas area during the Maximiliano days in the 1860's.
>
> When I scrolled through rolls of micro film at the Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints Family History Center, I was browsing through the Defuntos of the mid 1800's of Huejuquilla El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico, our pueblo.
>
> I found one relative by the name of Pablo Madera that was listed as, "Se Murio En La Guerra." Year 1862. What Guerra was happening in 1862?
>
> Anyway, I met one of the political people of our pueblo who is tall, wheres a cowboy hat and he told me that his ancestors where from the french. He has two daughters that have dark redish hair and blue eyes. But they all got married.
>
> I would say the French influence came at the time when they were present in the mid 1800's.
>
> Another thing, one of the other family names in our pueblo of Huejuquilla is "MONROY."
>
> Is that French?
Monroy is found all over Spain. There is a town called Monroy in
Extremadura, founded in 1309, and many people probably have their surname
due to the name of the town. The name is of French origin meaning "mi rey"
"El placentino Blas Xil de Ocampo en su manuscrito sobre el linaje de los
Monroy, Biblioteca Nacional sig. 2242 de 1650, remonta el origen de este
apellido, al igual que muchos cronistas antiguos, a los descendientes de
Vigil de Monroy.
Vigil de Monroy es un caballero francés, hijo del rey Dagoberto, que huye de
su país con sus leales para librarse de su hermano que le usurpa el trono.
Cruza los pirineos y se refugia en las montañas astures donde es acogido por
el rey Pelayo que tras ver su bravura le nombra capitán (en latín vigil),
llamándole desde entonces sus leales Vigil mon Roy (capitán mi Rey), nombre
con el que se quedaría. Fe de ello puede darnos Pedro de Gratia Dey, rey de
armas de los Reyes Católicos, en su libro de blasones a los linajes de
Castilla (año 1484), que dedicó a los Monroy las siguientes estrofas: "
http://www.misapellidos.com/ver_datos.phtml?cod=16209
Wikipedia entry on Monroy - http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroy
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Emilie Garcia
wrote:
>
> I thought I read somewhere that the Monroy and Mondragon were Basque.
>
>
>
> Emilie
>
> Port Orchard, WA
>
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > From: zacatecano020@hotmail.com
> > Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:15 -0800
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
> >
> > Some of you wrote about the French. The French were in the Zacatecas area
> during the Maximiliano days in the 1860's.
> >
> > When I scrolled through rolls of micro film at the Jesus Christ of Latter
> Days Saints Family History Center, I was browsing through the Defuntos of
> the mid 1800's of Huejuquilla El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico, our pueblo.
> >
> > I found one relative by the name of Pablo Madera that was listed as, "Se
> Murio En La Guerra." Year 1862. What Guerra was happening in 1862?
> >
> > Anyway, I met one of the political people of our pueblo who is tall,
> wheres a cowboy hat and he told me that his ancestors where from the french.
> He has two daughters that have dark redish hair and blue eyes. But they all
> got married.
> >
> > I would say the French influence came at the time when they were present
> in the mid 1800's.
> >
> > Another thing, one of the other family names in our pueblo of Huejuquilla
> is "MONROY."
> >
> > Is that French?
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
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>
To give you a better answer technically the guerra de reforma ended in 1860 when Mexico City was re-taken and most of the Conservative military had been defeated in battle. Some fighting continued in 1861 but by that time most of the country was firmly in the hands of the liberal forces of President Juarez.
The French intervention was just a continuation of the Mexican civil war, or guerra de reforma.
Anyways I just had looked this up but there was a Zacatecas division under General Jesus Gonzalez Ortega that faught at the battle of Cerro del Borrego against French troops in June 1862. This might be the battle that entry referred to, as the Mexican troops took on heavy casualties, especially their officers. Aside from that the other notable fight that took place was at Puebla although so far as I know I haven't found any Zacatecas unit that was at that battle. If there were any from that state they were probably in the regular army.
This style of hat is worn by the old people in the ranchos of our pueblo Huejuquilla El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico:
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7320/33349932.jpg
I am curious to it's origin. It is also worn by some of the Huichole Indigenous people, but they put feathers on it.
So is it european or indigenous in origin?
I have a cousin that is researching our indigenous peoples that live in our area the Huicholes. And I am researching our european origin. So there is two of us doing research on our histories.
Now speaking of present day Mexico, There are Jewish communities in Mexico City, Guadalajara and Monterrey
Once in a while articles about the communities come up in the news.
A famous news person in Mexico is Jacobo Zabludovsky. His parents are from Poland.
There is a website of the Israeli community of Guadalajara and it is:
I also found this other website of the Lebanese community of Mexico City:
Jewish have been present in Mexico since the early colonial days. Even in Jalisco! In our pueblo of Huejuquilla one of the major family names is "Landa."
In this website you can type in the surname "Landa" and the location as: Huejuquilla, Jalisco:
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=home
When I entered that name in a surname origin website, it came out as Jewish:
http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.fc/qx/quick-family-crest.htm
Hello,
When I search apellido Landa it comes up as a Basque surname.
Landa = prado http://www.euskalnet.net/laviana/gen_bascas/landeta.htm
http://www.misapellidos.com/ver_datos.phtml?cod=8203
http://www.bisabuelos.com/ape/landa.html
http://www.apellidosvascos.com/landa.htm
Any surname can be considered Jewish since they took up the surnames of the
countries they lived in. Therefore the surname is never a dead giveaway.
Same thing with the German surnames -
http://www.amfi.org/mailbag/GermanNames.htm
Saludos,
Armando
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 3:13 PM, wrote:
> Jewish have been present in Mexico since the early colonial days. Even in
> Jalisco! In our pueblo of Huejuquilla one of the major family names is
> "Landa."
>
> In this website you can type in the surname "Landa" and the location as:
> Huejuquilla, Jalisco:
>
> http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=home
>
> When I entered that name in a surname origin website, it came out as
> Jewish:
>
> http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.fc/qx/quick-family-crest.htm
>
>
>
Here is another website I should have linked -
http://www.jewfaq.org/jnames.htm
That same website seems to be complete on everything Jewish. It even goes
into detail about who is a Jew - http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Armando Antuñano wrote:
> Hello,
>
> When I search apellido Landa it comes up as a Basque surname.
> Landa = prado http://www.euskalnet.net/laviana/gen_bascas/landeta.htm
> http://www.misapellidos.com/ver_datos.phtml?cod=8203
> http://www.bisabuelos.com/ape/landa.html
> http://www.apellidosvascos.com/landa.htm
>
> Any surname can be considered Jewish since they took up the surnames of the
> countries they lived in. Therefore the surname is never a dead giveaway.
> Same thing with the German surnames -
> http://www.amfi.org/mailbag/GermanNames.htm
>
> Saludos,
> Armando
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 3:13 PM, wrote:
>
>> Jewish have been present in Mexico since the early colonial days. Even in
>> Jalisco! In our pueblo of Huejuquilla one of the major family names is
>> "Landa."
>>
>> In this website you can type in the surname "Landa" and the location as:
>> Huejuquilla, Jalisco:
>>
>> http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=home
>>
>> When I entered that name in a surname origin website, it came out as
>> Jewish:
>>
>> http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.fc/qx/quick-family-crest.htm
>>
>>
>>
Yes, Jewish came to Mexico during the colonial times. Monterrey was suppose to have been founded by Jewish settlers. The tradition food of Monterrey is "Cabrito"
But even in Jalisco, we eat "Capirotada" and "Semas" (origins are Jewish)
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/2840/comidasemas.jpg
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/384/capirotada.jpg
I want to note that during Septemeber in the city of Zacatecas, they do the reanactment of the Moors vs the Spanish. Called the Morismas de Bracho.
Alto south of Aguascalientes in Guanajuato they do Medeival Festivals:
http://www.hermandadmedieval.com/
Check out the Galician or Celtic style of Music in Guanajuato Festival:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuPCDilm9wI
Gitanos:
Jalisco History says that people from Jalostotitlán Jalisco founded Monterrey, Jews settlers in Mexico is a myth, Mariano Gonzalez in his book "Retoños de España en la nueva Galicia mentions that. By the way, Marianos 7 books will be reary soon, book # 1 is ready.
Ruben Casillas M.
--- El lun 22-feb-10, zacatecano020@hotmail.com escribió:
De:: zacatecano020@hotmail.com
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
A: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: lunes, 22 de febrero de 2010, 22:15
Yes, Jewish came to Mexico during the colonial times. Monterrey was suppose to have been founded by Jewish settlers. The tradition food of Monterrey is "Cabrito"
But even in Jalisco, we eat "Capirotada" and "Semas" (origins are Jewish)
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/2840/comidasemas.jpg
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/384/capirotada.jpg
I want to note that during Septemeber in the city of Zacatecas, they do the reanactment of the Moors vs the Spanish. Called the Morismas de Bracho.
Alto south of Aguascalientes in Guanajuato they do Medeival Festivals:
http://www.hermandadmedieval.com/
Check out the Galician or Celtic style of Music in Guanajuato Festival:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuPCDilm9wI
Gitanos:
"Jew settlers in Mexico is a myth"!!!???
Some of my husband's ancestors, the Acostas, were conversos--lots of those came to New Mexico and Mexico. Also, many Mexicans whose ancestors have been in Mexico since the 1600s or earlier have Jewish DNA! Mariano should explain himself.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:08:19 -0800
> From: rubenazo_casillas@yahoo.com.mx
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
>
> Jalisco History says that people from Jalostotitlán Jalisco founded Monterrey, Jews settlers in Mexico is a myth, Mariano Gonzalez in his book "Retoños de España en la nueva Galicia mentions that. By the way, Marianos 7 books will be reary soon, book # 1 is ready.
>
> Ruben Casillas M.
>
> --- El lun 22-feb-10, zacatecano020@hotmail.com escribió:
>
>
> De:: zacatecano020@hotmail.com
> Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
> A: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Fecha: lunes, 22 de febrero de 2010, 22:15
>
>
> Yes, Jewish came to Mexico during the colonial times. Monterrey was suppose to have been founded by Jewish settlers. The tradition food of Monterrey is "Cabrito"
>
> But even in Jalisco, we eat "Capirotada" and "Semas" (origins are Jewish)
>
>
Hi there Emile ,
I have to agree with you on puting the Kabash on the myth thing . It´s documented during the inquisition that early settlers were caught , tried and some sent back to Spain for sentencing .
Here in Monterrey , Mexico there were several settlers who were Jewish . Now they came as conversos or marranos but they were known to be of Jewish descent .
Luis Carvajal de la Cueva , Diego Montemayor . These two were founders of Monterrey
Welester
>
> "Jew settlers in Mexico is a myth"!!!???
>
>
>
> Some of my husband's ancestors, the Acostas, were conversos--lots of those came to New Mexico and Mexico. Also, many Mexicans whose ancestors have been in Mexico since the 1600s or earlier have Jewish DNA! Mariano should explain himself.
>
>
>
> Emilie
>
> Port Orchard, WA
>
> > Jalisco History says that people from Jalostotitlán Jalisco founded Monterrey, Jews settlers in Mexico is a myth, Mariano Gonzalez in his book "Retoños de España en la nueva Galicia mentions that. By the way, Marianos 7 books will be reary soon, book # 1 is ready.
> >
> > Ruben Casillas M.
>
> >
> > Yes, Jewish came to Mexico during the colonial times. Monterrey was suppose to have been founded by Jewish settlers. The tradition food of Monterrey is "Cabrito"
> >
> > But even in Jalisco, we eat "Capirotada" and "Semas" (origins are Jewish)
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Most of The first families from jalisco were related through the hernandez de hijar and the hurtado de mendoza and there is clear documentation showing at least 4 moor lines and other jewish (marano) lines this is not an opinion, there is clear evidence of this. The mountains where the mendoza family came from was originally a jewish area. Many of The families that the mendoza married into in Castilla also originated from this jewish area. I also believe that the perez that married into the francos to form the perez franco de paredes family were from the jewish perestrello family of portugal this family was originally the Pallestrelli family of Genoa. This last bit of info is the only info here that has not been clearly documented yet and some people disagree with my opinion of where the perez came from.
I repeat, the connection to the hernandez de hijar and mendoza lines to jewish and moorish ancestors have been documented
------Original Message------
From: Emilie Garcia
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
Sent: Feb 23, 2010 12:08 PM
"Jew settlers in Mexico is a myth"!!!???
Some of my husband's ancestors, the Acostas, were conversos--lots of those came to New Mexico and Mexico. Also, many Mexicans whose ancestors have been in Mexico since the 1600s or earlier have Jewish DNA! Mariano should explain himself.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:08:19 -0800
> From: rubenazo_casillas@yahoo.com.mx
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
>
> Jalisco History says that people from Jalostotitlán Jalisco founded Monterrey, Jews settlers in Mexico is a myth, Mariano Gonzalez in his book "Retoños de España en la nueva Galicia mentions that. By the way, Marianos 7 books will be reary soon, book # 1 is ready.
>
> Ruben Casillas M.
>
> --- El lun 22-feb-10, zacatecano020@hotmail.com escribió:
>
>
> De:: zacatecano020@hotmail.com
> Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
> A: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Fecha: lunes, 22 de febrero de 2010, 22:15
>
>
> Yes, Jewish came to Mexico during the colonial times. Monterrey was suppose to have been founded by Jewish settlers. The tradition food of Monterrey is "Cabrito"
>
> But even in Jalisco, we eat "Capirotada" and "Semas" (origins are Jewish)
>
>
Because the Jewish "clans" preferred to marry within their own clans and of
their own faith, it appears that the majority carry very similar DNA.
While it is true that one needed to be born from a Jewish mother to be
considered Jewish, it is also true that in the Kohen tribe, or priestly family
of the Jewish faith. _http://www.cohen-levi.org/_
(http://www.cohen-levi.org/) , only Cohen MALES can perform the Temple's service. This is a very
sensitive subject within the today's Jewish communities - especially by Jewish
women.
This may not define "race", however neither being Spanish, Irish, Mexican
is considered a "race", as the traditional thinking of race is defined by
color, not ethnic, national, or religious origins. I liked the heading of
this topic "clans"...it attempts to define family lineage within a larger
scope of a given nation - something we all do as we go down the path of
genealogy and our ancestry.
It is of no coincidence that many "conversos" would have been attracted to
the new world, as it was the very same year Columbus "discovered" America
that Queen Isabella decided to get rid of all Jews and Muslims who had lived
peacefully in Spain for hundreds of years.
Many of these displaced people (yet another Diaspora) went to other parts
of Europe, but no doubt many also came to the New World, and their Y-DNA
markers are testimony to such settlements. Did they continue their faith in
secrecy? Yet another mystery.....but I have heard anecdotal stories within
my own families how they "rebelled" against the Catholic Church or
whispered about their lineage...and as it so happens, my own Y-DNA has been linked
by Gary Felix's site as a descendant of Med/Semitic - E1b1b1.
Esperanza (Chicagoland area)
This is interesting Esperanza, I have some "jewish" blood too from Chihuahua. Yes, many peopleoften confuse race with a nationality. I always hear "oh he's dad is mexican and the mother is white"Wherein fact Mexicans can be of any race (white, black, asian, mestizo). Mexican is a nationalitynot a race. It like American is to Mexican. Within each country wherever europeans went theyleft their blood. So in each respective country youll find all type of people. My mother recalls oncewhen she immigrated in in the 1960s people did not believe she was Mexican because she was blonde. She replied "Claro que soy mexicana!" But she had to attend a "white" school, which makes everythingconfusing, one side is saying Mexicans are seperate but we see in her case? The US has slowly beencorrecting the error though. Acknolwedng the varied racial people within hispanic and latino. I alsoam iffy on the hispanic/latino term, it's very contraversial hence why I personally do not support itwe are
all American. Apparently I am now hearng the family Falcon de la Garza are jewish? I thoughtthey were espanol, they only married once in Los Altos but the marrage did not produce children. Fromwhat I have notced the north didn't mingle too much with the west Mexico. Occasionally youll seeso and so from Coahuila marrying so so from Jalisco but not too much. I wonder why?
Regards,Daniel
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org
_________________________________________________________________
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http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390710/direct/01/
Very interesting, Esperanza--
That reminds me of a lady I once knew, surnamed Cohen (her maiden name). Her father held a very high position in the Conservative Judaic community. When he died, he was buried in robes and a miter very similar to what the pope wears for special rituals, to signify his special status.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> From: Latina1955@aol.com
> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:38:55 -0500
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
>
> Because the Jewish "clans" preferred to marry within their own clans and of
> their own faith, it appears that the majority carry very similar DNA.
> While it is true that one needed to be born from a Jewish mother to be
> considered Jewish, it is also true that in the Kohen tribe, or priestly family
> of the Jewish faith. _http://www.cohen-levi.org/_
> (http://www.cohen-levi.org/) , only Cohen MALES can perform the Temple's service. This is a very
> sensitive subject within the today's Jewish communities - especially by Jewish
> women.
>
>
> This may not define "race", however neither being Spanish, Irish, Mexican
> is considered a "race", as the traditional thinking of race is defined by
> color, not ethnic, national, or religious origins. I liked the heading of
> this topic "clans"...it attempts to define family lineage within a larger
> scope of a given nation - something we all do as we go down the path of
> genealogy and our ancestry.
>
>
> It is of no coincidence that many "conversos" would have been attracted to
> the new world, as it was the very same year Columbus "discovered" America
> that Queen Isabella decided to get rid of all Jews and Muslims who had lived
> peacefully in Spain for hundreds of years.
>
> Many of these displaced people (yet another Diaspora) went to other parts
> of Europe, but no doubt many also came to the New World, and their Y-DNA
> markers are testimony to such settlements. Did they continue their faith in
> secrecy? Yet another mystery.....but I have heard anecdotal stories within
> my own families how they "rebelled" against the Catholic Church or
> whispered about their lineage...and as it so happens, my own Y-DNA has been linked
> by Gary Felix's site as a descendant of Med/Semitic - E1b1b1.
>
> Esperanza (Chicagoland area)
>
Garza family is purported to have Jewish lineage, as are others who settled
in Nuevo Leon, Coahuila and Texas....but that doesn't mean that weren't
from Spain....just like someone here in US could have Jewish lineage, but it
doesn't mean they aren't from America.
I suppose immigration trends, based on different eras/periods could be
traced to familial patterns, potential of income/survival, or actual land
grants - and as such I suspect there was some co-mingling of families at
different "epocas".
Esperanza, Chicagoland area
Hello Ruben - Can you please share with us what evidence Mariano uses to justify the statement that Jews in Mexico is a 'myth'? I don't have the book. Interesting statement to make when there is much history that proves otherwise including the Spanish Inquisition which also took place in Mexico.
thanks for sharing,
Yolanda
________________________________
From: ruben casillas moreno
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tue, February 23, 2010 7:08:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
Jalisco History says that people from Jalostotitlán Jalisco founded Monterrey, Jews settlers in Mexico is a myth, Mariano Gonzalez in his book "Retoños de España en la nueva Galicia mentions that. By the way, Marianos 7 books will be reary soon, book # 1 is ready.
Ruben Casillas M.
--- El lun 22-feb-10, zacatecano020@hotmail.com escribió:
De:: zacatecano020@hotmail.com
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
A: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: lunes, 22 de febrero de 2010, 22:15
Yes, Jewish came to Mexico during the colonial times. Monterrey was suppose to have been founded by Jewish settlers. The tradition food of Monterrey is "Cabrito"
But even in Jalisco, we eat "Capirotada" and "Semas" (origins are Jewish)
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/2840/comidasemas.jpg
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/384/capirotada.jpg
I want to note that during Septemeber in the city of Zacatecas, they do the reanactment of the Moors vs the Spanish. Called the Morismas de Bracho.
Alto south of Aguascalientes in Guanajuato they do Medeival Festivals:
http://www.hermandadmedieval.com/
Check out the Galician or Celtic style of Music in Guanajuato Festival:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuPCDilm9wI
Gitanos:
Hola yolanda, no se que evidencias tiene Don Mariano, solo se que es experto en genealogía e historia, en su libro numero 1 menciona eso, yo solo se que si hubo judios conversos pero no fueron grandes cantidades ni grandes grupos que fundaron ciudades, además el judaismo es
una religion no una raza, en la actualidad si hay sinagogas de judios que han inmigrado a Mexico ultimamente pero no en ciglos pasados.
Saludos
Ruben Casillas M.
--- El mar 23-feb-10, Yolanda Ochoa escribió:
De:: Yolanda Ochoa
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
A: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: martes, 23 de febrero de 2010, 15:25
Hello Ruben - Can you please share with us what evidence Mariano uses to justify the statement that Jews in Mexico is a 'myth'? I don't have the book. Interesting statement to make when there is much history that proves otherwise including the Spanish Inquisition which also took place in Mexico.
thanks for sharing,
Yolanda
________________________________
From: ruben casillas moreno
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tue, February 23, 2010 7:08:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
Jalisco History says that people from Jalostotitlán Jalisco founded Monterrey, Jews settlers in Mexico is a myth, Mariano Gonzalez in his book "Retoños de España en la nueva Galicia mentions that. By the way, Marianos 7 books will be reary soon, book # 1 is ready.
Ruben Casillas M.
--- El lun 22-feb-10, zacatecano020@hotmail.com escribió:
De:: zacatecano020@hotmail.com
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
A: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: lunes, 22 de febrero de 2010, 22:15
Yes, Jewish came to Mexico during the colonial times. Monterrey was suppose to have been founded by Jewish settlers. The tradition food of Monterrey is "Cabrito"
But even in Jalisco, we eat "Capirotada" and "Semas" (origins are Jewish)
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/2840/comidasemas.jpg
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/384/capirotada.jpg
I want to note that during Septemeber in the city of Zacatecas, they do the reanactment of the Moors vs the Spanish. Called the Morismas de Bracho.
Alto south of Aguascalientes in Guanajuato they do Medeival Festivals:
http://www.hermandadmedieval.com/
Check out the Galician or Celtic style of Music in Guanajuato Festival:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuPCDilm9wI
Gitanos:
Hello Yolanda and Ruben,
I think that we have to be clear when referring to "Jews" in Mexico. As one
of you pointed out we cannot deny the presence of "Jews", it is well
documented. However, the "Jews" that were allowed to come to Mexico and
other Spanish colonies were actually "conversos" and expected to practice
the Catholic faith. I'm sure that there were several "conversos" that were
involved in the founding of settlements. Those that faltered and returned to
their Jewish faith were removed from power and prosecuted by the Spanish
Inquisition as Yolanda mentions. Therefore, I can see how Mariano Gonzalez
can claim that Jewish settlers in Mexico is a myth, the Catholic church
would not allow it - they were "conversos" or converted Jews who lived among
the regular population as long as they behaved like good Catholics and not
"Jews."
As far as "Jews" being a race I believe they are considered part of the
"Semitic" group which according to Websters includes Arabs and Jews.
-Angelina-
Hello Angelina,
Ruben had already made the comment that Judaism is a religion and not a
race, which goes along with what you say Mariano is saying, even though he
may not have intended it. Once they give up their religion they are no
longer Jewish. However, many of them practiced in hiding, so it is hard to
tell which really were, even with DNA. Especially because culture, religion,
and race don't always coincide just as Semitic speakers include Arab
Muslims, Arab Christians, and Jews. It also goes along with my posts in the
thread that started this thread, the Madera family. I used the examples of
Castillian being of Latin origin but the DNA of the Castilians is not Roman
and not all groups of people considered Celtic were of the same DNA. Or how
about Mexicans that don't have Jewish blood eating capirotada. I also
understand that if the mother is not Jewish the children are not either. So
for DNA studies those with Y-DNA of Jews aren't Jews, only those with mt-DNA
are. Anyway, Gary Felix has a page of a new way to test for Jewish
relatedness. I might question some of it but he is an expert and not me. For
those that are curious here is the link -
http://garyfelix.tripod.com/~GaryFelix/index64.htm
Saludos,
Armando
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:49 PM, Angelina Markle wrote:
> Hello Yolanda and Ruben,
>
> I think that we have to be clear when referring to "Jews" in Mexico. As one
> of you pointed out we cannot deny the presence of "Jews", it is well
> documented. However, the "Jews" that were allowed to come to Mexico and
> other Spanish colonies were actually "conversos" and expected to practice
> the Catholic faith. I'm sure that there were several "conversos" that were
> involved in the founding of settlements. Those that faltered and returned to
> their Jewish faith were removed from power and prosecuted by the Spanish
> Inquisition as Yolanda mentions. Therefore, I can see how Mariano Gonzalez
> can claim that Jewish settlers in Mexico is a myth, the Catholic church
> would not allow it - they were "conversos" or converted Jews who lived among
> the regular population as long as they behaved like good Catholics and not
> "Jews."
>
> As far as "Jews" being a race I believe they are considered part of the
> "Semitic" group which according to Websters includes Arabs and Jews.
>
> -Angelina-
>
>
>
Hola Yolanda,
puedes encontrar lo que buscas haciendo clic en el siguiente enlace -
http://genealogia-mexico-occidente.googlegroups.com/web/LOS+MITOS+SEFAR…
Es el ultimo de los que sale en la siguiente pagina -
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/genealogia-mexico-occidente/files?h…
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Yolanda Ochoa wrote:
> Hello Ruben - Can you please share with us what evidence Mariano uses to
> justify the statement that Jews in Mexico is a 'myth'? I don't have the
> book. Interesting statement to make when there is much history that proves
> otherwise including the Spanish Inquisition which also took place in Mexico.
> thanks for sharing,
> Yolanda
>
Well, Don Mariano seems to be speaking solely of one area in the New World, Jalisco, or Los Altos de-- Still, if Altenos were of Spanish stock, they were still a mixed breed evolving from centuries of various cultures on the Iberian peninsula--- Visigoth, Moorish, Judaic---My little Muslim friend in Egypt tells me that the Arabic word for rice is ---- guess what?---Arroz! My Jewish friends told me that some of the hymnal music in the Catholic church is the same as in their temples. The early Spaniards could have promoted Christianity, and made the crime of apostasy punishable by death, but they brought a very mixed culture with them.
Mariano speaks of the food as being Spanish, such as "Cocido"--to the French, cocido is "Pot au Feu", but I think that is only because basic food like soups and stews that are thrown together with whatever meat and veggies are at hand is the same all over the world and goes by different names.
I do concede that the "French" thing can be a myth in various parts of Mexico, only because the French were there in the middle of the 19th century and by then were the only people to be seen with blonde hair and blue eyes, and people not knowing that their Spanish ancestors also had those traits and passed them on.
My father for example, born in Jerez, Zacatecas, was of Basque ancestry, and he would say that he had French ancestors because his great-grandfather was called El Frances because he had light hair and blue eyes. However, in my research of his ancestry going back to the late 1600s, I don't find a single Frenchman, or any Basque that came from France, only from Navarra. They were mostly described as Espanoles, very few Indio, and several Mulatto. So, in my family's case, the "French" thing is a myth. However, in my mother's New Mexican-Pueblo heritage, I see some things in that culture that hark back to Sephardic Jews, hiding in the hinterlands, professing to be Catholics and indeed, even in the late 19th century, they would still perform some rituals in secret.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:32:16 -0600
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
>
> Hola Yolanda,
> puedes encontrar lo que buscas haciendo clic en el siguiente enlace -
> http://genealogia-mexico-occidente.googlegroups.com/web/LOS+MITOS+SEFAR…
> Es el ultimo de los que sale en la siguiente pagina -
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/genealogia-mexico-occidente/files?h…
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Yolanda Ochoa wrote:
>
> > Hello Ruben - Can you please share with us what evidence Mariano uses to
> > justify the statement that Jews in Mexico is a 'myth'? I don't have the
> > book. Interesting statement to make when there is much history that proves
> > otherwise including the Spanish Inquisition which also took place in Mexico.
> > thanks for sharing,
> > Yolanda
> >
>
>
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
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> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> >
> >
> > Encuentra las mejores recetas en Yahoo! Cocina.
> > http://mx.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
Then how come when you look at Gary Felix's board and hit the dna link most of the dna results for Texas and NE Mexico is e1b1 and J1 and J2, in otherwords Jewish.
--
Esther A. Herold
-------------- Original message from ruben casillas moreno : --------------
Jalisco History says that people from Jalostotitlán Jalisco founded Monterrey, Jews settlers in Mexico is a myth, Mariano Gonzalez in his book "Retoños de España en la nueva Galicia mentions that. By the way, Marianos 7 books will be
> reary soon, book # 1 is ready.
>
> Ruben Casillas M.
> --- El lun 22-feb-10, zacatecano020@hotmail.com
> escribió:
>
>
> De:: zacatecano020@hotmail.com
> Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
> A: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Fecha: lunes, 22 de febrero de 2010, 22:15
>
> Yes, Jewish came to Mexico during the colonial times. Monterrey was suppose to have been founded by Jewish settlers. The tradition food of Monterrey is
> "Cabrito"
>
> But even in Jalisco, we eat "Capirotada" and "Semas" (origins are Jewish)
>
> http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/2840/comidasemas.jpg
> http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/384/capirotada.jpg
>
> I want to note that during Septemeber in the city of Zacatecas, they do the
> reanactment of the Moors vs the Spanish. Called the Morismas de Bracho.
>
> Alto south of Aguascalientes in Guanajuato they do Medeival Festivals:
>
> http://www.hermandadmedieval.com/
>
> Check out the Galician or Celtic style of Music in Guanajuato Festival:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuPCDilm9wI
>
> Gitanos:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8xSa44s_xc
>
Some of these same families in new mexico also had branches in jalos jalisco.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: eaherold@att.net
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 04:47:36
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
Then how come when you look at Gary Felix's board and hit the dna link most of the dna results for Texas and NE Mexico is e1b1 and J1 and J2, in otherwords Jewish.
--
Esther A. Herold
-------------- Original message from ruben casillas moreno : --------------
Jalisco History says that people from Jalostotitlán Jalisco founded Monterrey, Jews settlers in Mexico is a myth, Mariano Gonzalez in his book "Retoños de España en la nueva Galicia mentions that. By the way, Marianos 7 books will be
> reary soon, book # 1 is ready.
>
> Ruben Casillas M.
> --- El lun 22-feb-10, zacatecano020@hotmail.com
> escribió:
>
>
> De:: zacatecano020@hotmail.com
> Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] mixture of clans
> A: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Fecha: lunes, 22 de febrero de 2010, 22:15
>
> Yes, Jewish came to Mexico during the colonial times. Monterrey was suppose to have been founded by Jewish settlers. The tradition food of Monterrey is
> "Cabrito"
>
> But even in Jalisco, we eat "Capirotada" and "Semas" (origins are Jewish)
>
> http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/2840/comidasemas.jpg
> http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/384/capirotada.jpg
>
> I want to note that during Septemeber in the city of Zacatecas, they do the
> reanactment of the Moors vs the Spanish. Called the Morismas de Bracho.
>
> Alto south of Aguascalientes in Guanajuato they do Medeival Festivals:
>
> http://www.hermandadmedieval.com/
>
> Check out the Galician or Celtic style of Music in Guanajuato Festival:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuPCDilm9wI
>
> Gitanos:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8xSa44s_xc
>
mixture of clans