Nuestros Ranchos Site

Manny,
When you stated that he was "maestro de la obra de nra sta yglesia",I think the information below, from Retonos, fits your Alonso de Rubalcava, as he was a church architect in two different places.

All this information comes from Mariano González-Leal, Retoños de España;
Tomo IV Vol. II; GONZÁLEZ DE RUBALCAVA -- pp. 293-319.

Don Alonso De ROBALCAVA
Born in 1526 in Las Heras, Palencia (Castilla y León), SPAIN
Father: Don Mateo De ROBALCAVA
Mother: Juana María GONZÁLEZ
The family moves to Nueva Galicia, MEXICO sometime between 1540–1545. Alonzo is about age 14–19.

1548 – Relations with “una India”
Their son Domingo De ROBALCAVA (1548- ) is considered Mestizo

Move: 1560 (about age 34) Pátzcuaro, Michoacán Occupation (1560–1567): The Viceroy of Mexico requested that Alonso use his profession, architect, as an act of mercy (i.e., no pay) for the Augustinian friars. Don Alonso and Fray Jerónimo de la Magadalena worked on the mission, first Catholic outpost in this territory in Santiágo de Copándaro, Michoacán

Property (8 August 1560): As a reward for working as architect on the Augustinian mission, Viceroy of New Spain, Don Luís de Velasco granted Don Alonso a large estancia, which would be passed to his descendants in perpetuity.

Occupation (1565): Don Alonso was the principal architect in Guadalajara for the second Cathedral. Guadalajara's population had grown since the first was built in the early 1500's. The new Cathedral was constructed of adobe and had three naves.

Marriage 1568 (about age 42)
Wife: Doña Beatriz LÓPEZ DE FUENLLANA (1546-1607)
They have 10 children, born between 1569 & 1581.

Hope this helps,
Lucy Sweeney

Manny,

I think it's possible that we're wrong about Ruy Gonzalez age. he first appears in 1519 with Narvaez and I think most people estimated he was born around 1490-1495 but it's possible he was 10 years or more older than that in which case it's more than possible

Take a look at your DNA results on Ancestry, they may have been revised with the recent increase in the number of reference samples.

My wife originally had about 10% Irish, her ancestors for the last couple of hundred years are all from Mexico, now has gone away.

Thanks for the information, Gloria. I actually have eleven children for
Juan de Araisa y Medina and María Lozano:

María, b. abt 1631 single, died 1659
Luisa, b. abt 1633 m. Juan de Aguilar y Solórzano
Juana, b. abt 1634 m. Pedro Valenciano
Hernando b. 1637 m. Antonia de Aguilar y Solórzano
Christobal b. 1639 m. Bernarda de Mendoza
Gertrudis b. 1641 m. Pedro de Aguilar y Solórzano
Juan b. 1643 no data
Theresa b. 1646 probably died infant.
Theresa II b. 1647 m. Diego Delgado Cervantes
Gabriel b. 1650 probably died infant.
Gabriel II b. 1651 m. Michaela Fernández de Araujo (aka Michaela de Vargas)
Regards,
Bill

Hola Roberto,

Bienvenidos. Aqui la partida matrimonial de Jose Maria y Agapita. El es viudo de Narcisa? Trujillo, Agapita es hija de Antonio Huerta y de Manuela Casillas:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XYR4-2?i=50&wc=3J4P-BZ9

Aqui el bautismo de su hijo Jose Lino, 27 sep 1828: da nombres de los abuelos, los paternos son Francisco Plasencia cc Juana Fabiana de Alcala:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-5XPB-6?i=363&wc=3JXL-R…

Hay que sacar los demas bautismos para verificar los nombres de los abuelos. Aqui se pueden encontrar los archivos de Jalisco. Corresponden con los registros que ya tienes:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-5XPB-6?i=363&owc=colle…

Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Simona, do you know what time frame this is? and how this Cristobal Macias might be connected to this Cristobal Macias: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Mac%C3%ADas-720

So this occurred on September 2, 1859? Interesting. We should all check the church records of our pueblos to see if anyone else had made a log about this event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Iwpyvou1f4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859#cite_note-12

Solar storm of 1859

The solar storm of 1859 (also known as the Carrington Event)[1] was a powerful geomagnetic solar storm during solar cycle 10 (1855–1867). A solar coronal mass ejection (CME) hit Earth's magnetosphere and induced one of the largest geomagnetic storms on record, September 1–2, 1859. The associated "white light flare" in the solar photosphere was observed and recorded by British astronomers Richard C. Carrington (1826–1875) and Richard Hodgson (1804–1872). The now-standard unique IAU identifier for this flare is SOL1859-09-01.

A solar storm of this magnitude occurring today would cause widespread disruptions and damage due to extended outages of the electrical grid.[2][3] The solar storm of 2012 was of similar magnitude, but it passed Earth's orbit without striking the planet.[4]

Carrington flare
From August 28 to September 2, 1859, many sunspots appeared on the Sun. On August 29, southern auroras were observed as far north as Queensland, Australia.[5] Just before noon on September 1, the English amateur astronomers Richard Carrington and Richard Hodgson independently made the first observations of a solar flare.[6] Carrington and Hodgson compiled independent reports which were published side-by-side in the Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society, and exhibited their drawings of the event at the November 1859 meeting of the Royal Astronomical Society.[7][8]

The flare was associated with a major coronal mass ejection (CME) that travelled directly toward Earth, taking 17.6 hours to make the 150 million kilometre (93 million mile) journey. It is believed that the relatively high speed of this CME (typical CMEs take several days to arrive at Earth) was made possible by a prior CME, perhaps the cause of the large aurora event on August 29 that "cleared the way" of ambient solar wind plasma for the Carrington event.[6]

Because of a geomagnetic solar flare effect ("magnetic crochet")[9] observed in the Kew Observatory magnetometer record by Scottish physicist Balfour Stewart and a geomagnetic storm observed the following day, Carrington suspected a solar-terrestrial connection.[10] Worldwide reports on the effects of the geomagnetic storm of 1859 were compiled and published by American mathematician Elias Loomis, which support the observations of Carrington and Stewart.

On September 1–2, 1859, one of the largest recorded geomagnetic storms (as recorded by ground-based magnetometers) occurred. Auroras were seen around the world, those in the northern hemisphere as far south as the Caribbean; those over the Rocky Mountains in the U.S. were so bright that the glow woke gold miners, who began preparing breakfast because they thought it was morning.[6] People in the northeastern United States could read a newspaper by the aurora's light.[11] The aurora was visible as far from the poles as south-central Mexico[12], Queensland, Cuba, Hawaii,[13] southern Japan and China,[14] and even at lower latitudes very close to the equator, such as in Colombia.[15] Estimates of the storm strength range from −800 nT to −1750 nT.[16]

Telegraph systems all over Europe and North America failed, in some cases giving telegraph operators electric shocks.[17] Telegraph pylons threw sparks.[18] Some telegraph operators could continue to send and receive messages despite having disconnected their power supplies.[19]

On Saturday, September 3, 1859, the Baltimore American and Commercial Advertiser reported:

Those who happened to be out late on Thursday night had an opportunity of witnessing another magnificent display of the auroral lights. The phenomenon was very similar to the display on Sunday night, though at times the light was, if possible, more brilliant, and the prismatic hues more varied and gorgeous. The light appeared to cover the whole firmament, apparently like a luminous cloud, through which the stars of the larger magnitude indistinctly shone. The light was greater than that of the moon at its full, but had an indescribable softness and delicacy that seemed to envelop everything upon which it rested. Between 12 and 1 o'clock, when the display was at its full brilliancy, the quiet streets of the city resting under this strange light, presented a beautiful as well as singular appearance.[20]

In 1909, an Australian gold miner C.F. Herbert retold his observations in a letter to The Daily News in Perth:

I was gold-digging at Rokewood, about four miles from Rokewood township (Victoria). Myself and two mates looking out of the tent saw a great reflection in the southern heavens at about 7 o'clock p.m., and in about half an hour, a scene of almost unspeakable beauty presented itself, lights of every imaginable color were issuing from the southern heavens, one color fading away only to give place to another if possible more beautiful than the last, the streams mounting to the zenith, but always becoming a rich purple when reaching there, and always curling round, leaving a clear strip of sky, which may be described as four fingers held at arm's length. The northern side from the zenith was also illuminated with beautiful colors, always curling round at the zenith, but were considered to be merely a reproduction of the southern display, as all colors south and north always corresponded. It was a sight never to be forgotten, and was considered at the time to be the greatest aurora recorded... The rationalist and pantheist saw nature in her most exquisite robes, recognising, the divine immanence, immutable law, cause, and effect. The superstitious and the fanatical had dire forebodings, and thought it a foreshadowing of Armageddon and final dissolution.[21]

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-YSLZ-XS4?i=501&wc=3PMG…

“Ojo. --- La noche de este día [1º de septiembre de 1859], como al mediar la modorra, apareció una gran columna de fuego rojizo con unas ráfagas blancas, en dirección perpendicular, abrazando de Norte á Oriente, no muy ancha i subió bastante hacia nuestro Zenit, pero nunca llegó a sernos perpendicular; Se fue disminuyendo y retirando por la misma dirección que trajo, y al entrar la Alba, quedó concluida. Cuatro noches antes de ella, hubo otra luz menor, que yo no vi y por lo mismo no la escribo, pero se dice que fue de color amarillo.

Setenta años há, vieron nuestros Padres una Aurora boreal, de esta especie, pero mucho más extensa. Las apariciones de este fenómeno en nuestro País, son tan raras que ello mismo las hace admirar, y por lo tanto, anoto ésta que vi para memoria y noticia cierta y exacta á las futuras generaciones.” . . . [José Trinidad García, 2 de septiembre de 1859, Lampazos de Naranjo, Nuevo León, México]
__________________________________________

“Attention. --- The night of this day (1 Sep 1859), about midway through the “modorra” [the second quarter of the night – roughly 9 p.m. to 12 a.m.], appeared a great column of reddish fire with some white flashes/streaks, in a perpendicular direction, stretching from North to West, not very thick and it rose toward our Zenith, but it never became perpendicular to us. It began diminishing and retiring via the same direction it came from, and upon the arrival of Dawn, was concluded. Four nights before this, there was another lesser light, which I did not see and for that reason did not record, but it is said that it was yellow in color.

Seventy years ago, our Parents [elders] saw an Aurora Borealis, of this kind, but much more extensive. The appearances of this phenomenon in our Country are so rare, that in and of themselves makes them admirable, and as such, I document this one that I saw as a memory and true and exact account for future generations.” . . . [José Trinidad García, 2 September 1859, Lampazos de Naranjo, Nuevo León, México]
__________________________________________

This entry verifies that there was an astronomical event on the night of Sunday, 28 Aug 1859, and again four nights later on the night of Thursday, 1 Sep 1859. It confirms that the Aurora Borealis was a reddish color accompanied by white lights, and began before midnight. It also verifies that elders remembered that 70 years prior (roughly 1789) there was another memorable event. This coincides with Solar cycle 4, the fourth solar cycle since 1755, when extensive recording of solar sunspot activity began. The solar cycle lasted 13.6 years, beginning in September 1784 and ending in April 1798. The maximum smoothed sunspot number (SIDC formula) observed during the solar cycle was 235.3 (in February 1788), and the starting minimum was 15.9. Again the maximum of solar activity took place in February 1788, exactly as the above entry mentions.

Curiously, all the pages in the Arandas, Jalisco, baptismal archive for the month of September 1859 are missing. They stop on 29 Aug 1859 on Foja 19 and skip to 2 Oct 1859 on Foja 28. No mention of the Aurora borealis at all. Curious indeed. I will check other towns' archives for this date to see if there are other mentions.

"México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-1979," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-2LK7-3?cc=1874591&wc=3J64-… : 16 February 2017), Arandas > Santa María de Guadalupe > Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1859-1862 > image 94 of 369; parroquias Católicas, Jalisco (Catholic Church parishes, Jalisco).

Wow very interesting indeed....check this out. Confirmation of the events mentioned in the entry you found.

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2018SpWea..16..593G (redirected from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859#cite_note-12)

SAO/NASA ADS Physics Abstract Service

Title:
Observations of Low-Latitude Red Aurora in Mexico During the 1859 Carrington Geomagnetic Storm
Authors:
González-Esparza, J. A.; Cuevas-Cardona, M. C.
Affiliation:
AA(LANCE, Instituto de Geofísica, Unidad Michoacán, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, Morelia, México), AB(Instituto de Ciencias Básicas e Ingeniería, Universidad Autónoma del Estado de Hidalgo, Carboneras, Mineral de la Reforma, México)
Publication:
Space Weather, Volume 16, Issue 6, pp. 593-600
Publication Date:
06/2018
Origin:
WILEY
Keywords:
Carrington Event, history of space weather, extreme events, international collaboration
Abstract Copyright:
©2018. American Geophysical Union. All Rights Reserved.
DOI:
10.1029/2017SW001789
Bibliographic Code:
2018SpWea..16..593G

Abstract
One of the most intense geomagnetic storm that has been documented in recent history occurred on 1 September 1859. This storm is known as the Carrington Event. In the morning of 1 September at around 11:15 UT, Richard Carrington and Richard Hodgson observed in England, independently and for the first time, an intense white light solar flare. About 17 hr after this solar event, there occurred the strongest geomagnetic perturbation ever recorded as well as a greatly extended red aurora, which covered unusually at low latitudes. The red auroral display on 2 September was reported in regions where this kind of phenomena is very rare, like in Cuba and Hawaii. Until now however, it was not known to scientists that the low-latitude red aurora is also registered in Mexico. At that time, Mexico was in a civil war, and there were very difficult conditions in where to establish astronomical and magnetic observatories. Nevertheless, the geomagnetic storm was observed with a maximum intensity between 7:00 and 8:00 UTC and was reported to a Mexican newspaper from five different locations (Mexico City, Querétaro, Guadalajara, Hidalgo, and Guanajuato) and registered also from at least in two additional sites (Michoacán and San Luis Potosí) in other historical documents. These records confirm that the Carrington geomagnetic storm was a global event with planetary repercussions, and that the Mexican low-latitude region is susceptible to significant effects associated with intense space weather events.

My mother’s grandmother, Martina Carlos de Godoy, born November 1849, Tlaltenango, Zac.

Mother recalled the story mentioned by her grandmother, when Martina was a little girl the sky turned dark, the weather was very cold, and little white flakes were falling from the sky.

The locals thought it was the end of the world.

Martina did not indicate if the event was just one day or several. Martina would have been ten years of age during the Solar Storm. This could possibly have been the event Martina mentioned.

Misty

Wow, I hope someone does translate it. It seems pretty interesting.

En once dias del mes de Junio del dicho año, murio en esta ciudad, Don Diego de Padilla. Enterre su cuerpo en el convento de San Agustin en entierro propio. Hizo testamento cerrado ante Juan Sedeño, escribano real. Dijo sele dijiese quatrocientas misas rezadas, repartidas en conventos de esta ciudad. Asi mismo mando imponer quatro mil pesos de principal sobre sus haciendas para una capellania en este obispado. Nombro por capellan y patron a su hijo, Don Gaspar de Padilla presbitero. Fueron sus albaceas el dicho Don Gaspar y Don Lorenzo de Padilla, sus hijos, y Doña Ana de Mota, su mujer.

Nicolas Sandoval and Ana de la Cruz. I think the city says "guixiotitlan"

Hi

I see the names Corona and Nieto on this thread and wonder are these people related to Pedro Nieto that married Josefa Corona from the early 1600s in Pinos Zacatecas?

This is what I understand:
(real meaning on parentesis)
?word that I am unsure on double question marks??

---y fue su Tio hermano de su sexta abuela Doña Maria si el famoso y memorable Capitan Miguel Caldera, quien por los años de mil quienientos ochenta y dos fue a pasificar a los Yndios de San Luis Miguel Mezquitic, y San Diego Atotonilco, descubrio la mina de San Pedro Potosi, paso de alli al Nayarit, de cuya sierra vajo muchos Yndios que poblo en Huaxuquilla la Alta en San Andres, y en Mezquitic, en donde por el Sr Birrey de nueva España fue ALcalde Mayor: quel año de ochonta y nueve el Sr. Virrey Don Manrrique de Acuña le hiso Capitan Alcalde Mayor de esta Villa y Corregidor de Taltenango, el de noventa y uno de San Luis llevo voluntarios a los Capitanes Yndios de aquellas Naciones a Mexico, quienes dieron a su soberano la obediencia, en manos del sr. Virrey don Luis Velasco segundo deeste nombre, y a su regreso trajo cuatrocientas familias de Tlacaltecos que se repartieron en las poblasiones de Yndios de estas partes para que como Cristianos les enseñaran la doctrina y pocicia (policy) y el año de mil seisientos dies y seis, dio socorro al capitan Don Bartolome Arivava??, para el alcanse de los Yndios Tepecanos que derrotados huian, de la memorable Guerra de Cacaria, con cuyo echo fue el triunfo completo de la victoria, apresando a los fugitivos apostatas y Barbaros, en lo intricado y crespa de la sierra de Nayarit, toda la que a visto en cronicas, historias del Reyno, escrituras, pleitos juridicos, y papeles de la casa de los Calderas. Y responde anadiendo (añadiendo) que son originarios de la Villa assi Joseph Tomas Cristoval Villegas, sus Padres y Abuelos por ser una ya la?? linea, asepcion como tiene dho de Dn. Antonio Cayetano Villegas.

2-A la segunda pregunta dixo le consta que Dn. Antonio Villegas y Da. Barbara Cabral son casados segun orden de Nra. Santa Madre Yglesia y que entre otros hijos tuvieronal dho. Jph. Tomas Cristoval Villegas aquien an criado educado y alimentado dandole el nombre de hijo y el lo da el de Padres, y responde

3-A la tercia pregunta dixo: quel sitado Joseph Tomas Cristoval Villegas, sus Padres, y Padres deestos, y sus pasados de donde vienen i desienden son Christianos biejos Españoles de nobles y claros linages, que no vienen ni desienden de castas d moros mulatos Herejes o Judios, ni de los nuevamente convertidos, ni penitenciados por el santo oficio de la Ynquisision, que no tienen ninguna mala raza ni nota, y en tal pocesion es tan sincera en contrario y responde.

A la cuarta pregunta dixo que el Nino??(niño maybe?) Jph Tomas Cristoval Villegas, es de buena vida y costumbres, y noble para obtener cualquier empleo de Orden Eco. (eclesiastico) o ministerio Real y responde

A la quinta pregunta dixo que todo lo dicho arriva es publico y no torsio?? publica voz y fama i la verdad para su Juramento en que afirmo y ratifico leida que le fue su declaracion espreso ser de edad de setenta y tres, y no tocarle las generales de la ley, y lo firmo con su mxd. (majestad) doi fee. en mandado seis....

hope it helps a little.

I have this issue as well, and also with "Image not available" popping in random positions. Seems like its on their end

I havent heard this before! I always seen the Padillas as españoles, who is Gerónimo Ruiz de la Mota? Ana's father? -Daniel

In reference to you question about Ana de La Mota being of Jewish
origin.....I found a book on Google, "Conquest" by Hugh Thomas, that makes
reference to Geronimo Ruiz de la Mota as being from a Converso family. That
is all I can tell you. Ana and Diego are in my family tree, I don't recall
coming across any other reference to Conversos.

-Angelina Markle-

Hi, My family has roots in the Tlaltenango Valley, too (Momax, Tlaltenango, etc...)

Lina: Adelina, Carolina, Catalina, Marcelina, Ursulina, etc.

Lino: Avelino, Paulino, Marcelino, etc.

Hi George

Regarding this marriage:

19 Feb 1765 (image 159)
• Balentin Juan Nepomuceno Serrano, s/o Miguel Serrano and Monica Quiteria Quintana
• Maria de la Luz Lopes alias Villalpando, d/o Nicolasa Francisca Lopez, and padrfe no conosido

Monica Quiteria Quintana is named as Monica Quiteria Billalpando in this 22 July 1757 Asientos Info Matr of:
-Monica Antonia Moscoso (mestiza) and
-Antonio Basilico Serrano (esp.), who is Monica Quiteria Quintana's (Billalpando) son.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6769-4Z7?i=37&wc=M6QX-…

This means that in the 19 Feb 1765 marriage there may have been a dispensa, as its a Villalpando marrying a Villalpando.

Regards
Denise

George,

Thanks for sharing these with the groups, I know you have been working lots on the Villalpando. I do have a question though, the following record:

31 Aug 1758 (images 32-33)
• Antonio Mendes Ydalgo, s/o Juan Ygnacio Mendes Ydalgo and Maria Gertrudis Ponce de Leon
• Anna Maria Gertrudis de Villalpando, d/o Eusebio de Villalpando and Nicolasa Francisca Lopez; vda Juan Darien Chispas

I descend from Maria Manuela Mendez Hidalgo she was born ca. 1725 in San Luis Potosi, have you found any additional info on this family while researching. I know there were some brances in Asientos, Pinos, Santa Maria de los Lagos and Mexico City. It appears this family may have originated near or around Santa Maria del Rio, San Luis Potosi. Nevertheless, this family settled in parts of Nueva Galicia.

Regards,
Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino

Hello,

Could you please link the dispensa?

Thank you,
Alex

Hola, según el pedigree de family search de Joseph Antonio de Alba Jiménez creado en https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/MQM7-CT2 aparecen como padres de Phelipe Neri de Alba don Francisco de Alba Jiménez y doña Ygnes de Alcaraz Giménez.

Espero sea de utilidad esta información.

Saludos

Hola Mar.

Podría ser que ésta pareja que residía en la "Hacienda del Lobo" y bautizó a sus hijos José Antonio (Ago.27/1741) y Benito (Mar.27/1744) en Sierra de Pinos, Zac. sean los mismos padres de los hijos ya mencionados considerando que "El puesto del Tigre" también se encontraba en la zona donde actuálmente confluyen los límites de los estados de Aguascalientes, Jalisco y Zacatecas.

Bautismo de José Antonio (En la parte superior de la hoja del lado izquierdo. La partida comienza en la imagen anterior núm. 195):

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-Y52X-Z

Benito, bautizado en la capilla de la misma Hacienda (Ultima partida de la hoja del lado izquierdo):

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-Y5N1-3

También podría haber algunas pistas en el siguiente artículo donde se menciona que "El Tigre" colindaba con el "Sauz de los Macías" y pertenecía a "los herederos de Don Alonso de Alva y Arenas".

http://www.historiasyrecuerdosdeencarnaciondediaz.com/macias.html

George:
I found Manuel Villalpando and Gertrudis Guardado's marriage; take a look!!:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11605-21888-52?cc=1410092&…

Best
Luis Núñez Gornés

George Fulton,

Reading your note just reminded me that there is a film for Asientos baptisms in the Pinos, Zacatecas records. The very first baptism film under Pinos covers 5 abril 1765 [image 3] to 29 agosto 1778 [image 156]. Perhaps you are already aware of this? The records belong to "la yglecia de el Real de San Nicolas de los Angeles aiuda de Parrochia de Nuestra Senyora de Bethlem de los Asientos".

David Delgado
Albany, CA

-----Original Message-----
>From: gpf13@aol.com
>Sent: Feb 11, 2012 11:02 PM
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Manuel de Villalpando and Maria Gregoria Guardado
>
>Don Manuel de Villalpando and his wife Dona Maria Gregoria Guardado (d/o Eugenio Jose Guardadp and Maria Gertrudis Garcia) had at least 9 children from 1778 the late 1790s, of whom 8 are in the baptismal registers of Asientos, AGS. For one, Rafael, there is no baptism record, but his marriage record, and the baptism records of his children place him in this family.
>
>I have not found a marriage record for Manuel and Gregoria.
>
>Does anyone know who Manuel's parents are?
>
>George Fulton
>Pleasanton, CA

It does appear that María Dionisia de Pedroza listed as the mother of José Miguel de Pedroza is the same María Dionisia de Pedroza that married Nicolás Díaz Tiscareño; although it's unusual that the IM for José Miguel and María Magdalena Muñoz de Nava does not state the relationship between "testigo" Francisco Javier de Pedroza and the groom to-be, his supposed nephew. Typically the relationship between a witness and the couple is disclosed and a statement is made by the witness that the relationship did not influence the witness' testimony.

I don't believe that Nicolás Díaz Tiscareño is the father of José Miguel. I'm thinking that the illicit relationship between Nicolás and María Dionisia de Pedroza probably only occurred just prior to their marriage; since, the second witness in their 'dispensa', don Pedro Montero y Aragón had no knowledge of the affair. A long standing relationship would have been scandalous and a hot topic of small town gossip. Also, if Nicolás was the father than a marriage dispensation in 'cuarto grado de consanguinidad' would have been required for the marriage between José Miguel de Pedroza and María Magdalena Muñoz de Nava; since Nicolás Díaz Tiscareño and Andrés Muñoz de Nava (María Magdalena's father) were second cousins:

1. Luis Tiscareño de Molina cc Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza

2. Beatriz de Tiscareño - hermanas - Luisa de Tiscareño

3. José Díaz de Anda - primos hermanos - Diego López Muñoz de Nava

4. Nicolás Díaz Tiscareño - primos segundos - Andrés Muñoz de Nava

Saludos
Austin Pérez

Excellent work Simona,

I have the Pedrosas in my family tree. The information that Nicolas had a long standing relationship also leads me to believe that he is a possible father to Jose Miguel Pedrosa. Even better was finding the indisputable evidence showing his mother and her story.

I agree that there may have been friction from family members if Jose Miguel used the Diaz Tiscareño surname since the mom and Dionicia were closely related. But it would be great to learn more about how the family handled the situation and to find out if Miguel or any of his descendants ever used Diaz Tiscareño as a surname. Did Nicolas Diaz Tiscareño and Maria Dionicia Pedroza have children once they were married? She would have still been of child bearing age.

It would be great to find a will of Nicolas Diaz Tiscareño and see if what additional information it could provide.

Keep up the good work!

Rick A. Ricci

wow, this is very interesting. I descend from Joseph Miguel de Pedroza and I really appreciate you posting this information.

Denise

Thank you the kind words.

This project was done over a period of a couple of years. During that time Family Search reposted the films, and consequently the image numbers changed. This reduced the utility, but as Chris noted there is still a way to find the actual records.

I have looked at revisting the index with revised image numbers, but I have been working on a number of other projects, and have not gotten back to it.

I apologize for the inconvenience.

George

I'm not sure how I am supposed to use the index but here's how I do it.

1. Open a film on FS.
2. Go to a random IM on the film.
3. Check the index and see if its in Vol 1709
4. Repeat until I land on one in Vol 1709.
5. Note image number in index.
6. Note image number of my wanted IM in index.
7. Find difference between image numbers in index.
8. Either add or subtract that many image numbers in FS.
9. You should find the one you are looking for!

My husband has Luna from Asientos but I did not find those names in his tree.Have you come across a Manuel de Luna married to Agapito Espino? That is my husband's 3rd great grandparents.