Nuestros Ranchos Site

Note:
I have a historical event book from Jerez, and there
is an article where they were selling black and
mulatto slaves on the open market (early 1700s). In
fact, I believe one of my ancestors buying them.

Question: What happened to all these slaves?  When I
went to Jerez, I didn't see a single black!  I believe
they were assimilated in to the population.

Any comments?

Alberto.


--- alice wissing  wrote:

> Esperanza,
>  
> I'm curious where you read about the blacks
> outnumbering the Spaniards in Zacatecas.  I've got
> really weird hair and have been traced with
> certainty to a few coyotes and a black, all from
> Durango, which is next to Zacatecas.  I've never met
> another Mexican with hair as strange as mine -
> coarse, dark, wavy, and it won't hold a curl.  I can
> even forecast the weather with this hair.  Once I
> told everyone it was going to rain and it was sunny
> out.  Nobody believed me and then it rained that
> night.  Sometimes I think God gave

Actually, for a while, blacks outnumbered Spaniards in Zacatecas as well because they were being used in the silver mines that dot the whole state.  Did you know that Michoacan had an enormous amount of Africans there early on as well? 

 

Both my husband (from Michoacan) and myself would bet that we have African blood running through our veins - primarily because of the very

I wish I could say that I am related to the Valdez
from Teotaltiche. My Grandfather was from Zitácuaro,
Michoacán. I haven't trace enough to know where they
came from before Michoacán. I know there is a large
Valdez family both in Zacatecas and Veracurz, but I
haven't on the Valdez from Michoacán. Anyone who has
more information, please let me know. I will check
this info in the meantime.

Guillermo Valdez


--- aajay1073  wrote:

> 
> Hey Victor,
> 
> The books you mention are actually the ones I have. 
> Sorry, I didn't 
> know the names but I recognize them.
> 
> The three books I currently have are:
> - Los Valdes de Totatiche
>      {I descend from the Valdes family, Joseph
> Leandro Valdez Lopez 
> and Maria Josepha Grano Covarrubias}
> - Estirpe Sacerdotal Campos-Jara
>      {I descend from the Campos family, Pedro Leon
> Gaeta Sierra and 
> Maria de la Luz Campos Huerta.}
> - El Sacerdocio Ministerial - Singular Don a la
> Parroquia de Totatiche
>      {I descend

We definetly shouldn't rule out the presence of blacks
in México (and we might have some blood too!), but we
have to be aware that blacks were brought to México at
first when Spaniards arrive to Veracruz. This is why
we find most black mexicans in the eastern coast of
México (Gulf of Mexico). As soon as they started
conquering the indians, the need for black labor
became unnecessary. I would not question the veracity
of Vaughn's assertion about black outnumbering
spaniards (maybe at the beginning of the colony), but
I doubt it is true in present day México. If I'm not
mistaken (correct me if I am wrong), México and
Argentina and the two latin american countries with
the smallest black population.

Guillermo Valdez.


--- alice wissing  wrote:

> Hello,
>  
> I've always wondered if any families had haciendas
> in the Los Altos area and what differentiates a
> ranch from a hacienda.  Does anyone out there know
> how I would go about finding that information?  
>  
> I

cool! glad you had a great time and thanks much for the website. here is
the bibliography from that website:

Aguirre Beltrán, Gonzalo, La población negra de México, 1519-1810:
estudio etnohistórico (México: Ediciones Fuente Cultural, 1946).

Aguirre Beltrán, Gonzalo, Cuijla: esbozo etnográfico de un pueblo negro,
(México: Fondo de Cultura Económica, 1958).

Althoff, Daniel , "Afro-Mestizo Speech from Costa Chica, Guerrero: From
Cuaji to Cuijla," (Language Problems and Language Planning, 18(3),
1994), p.242-256.

Carroll, Patrick J., Blacks in Colonial Veracruz: Race, Ethnicity, and
Regional Development, (Austin: University of Texas Press, 1991).

Cruz Carretero, Sagrario , Identidad en una comunidad afromestiza del
centro de Veracruz: La población de Mata Clara, (Tésis de Licenciatura,
Fundación Universidad de las Américas).

Davidson, David M., "Negro Slave Control and Resistance in colonial
Mexico, 1519-1650," In Maroon Societies: Rebel Slave Communities in the
Ameri

I hope everyone is doing ok. I just came back from a trip to Jalisco
and wanted to let you know that I had a lot of fun. Of course, I used
some of my time there interviewing my relatives and visiting the
Zacoalco's notaria for records from the 1700's. Soon, I'll post an
updated family tree on the files section.

By the way, the conversation about spanish ancestors and indios
ancestors is past already, but I just wanted to remind you that we
must not forget our african roots. According to researcher Bobby
Vaughn, black population outnumbered spaniards during most of the
c

I hope everyone is doing ok. I just came back from a trip to Jalisco 
and wanted to let you know that I had a lot of fun. Of course, I used 
some of my time there interviewing my relatives and visiting the 
Zacoalco's notaria for records from the 1700's. Soon, I'll post an 
updated family tree on the files section.

By the way, the conversation about spanish ancestors and indios 
ancestors is past already, but I just wanted to remind you that we 
must not forget our african roots. According to researcher Bobby 
Vaughn, black population outnumbered spaniards during most of the 
colonial times. Have a look at this page: www.afromexico.com I, and 
probably many of you, have found mulatos, coyotes, and similar terms 
on some of our lines, which means that we also have african roots.

Is anyone aware of a book called "Haciendas y Estancias de Jalisco"? 
Well, on a trip to Guadalajara, I got a copy of this book, and even 
though I haven't read it all, It has some interesting information on

Can't promise anything, Joseph.  But with a little luck and a LOT of 
patience we might be able to get you one.  In the mean time, get 
yourself a nice drink and put that to rest.  :)



--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes  wrote:
> For the following Ranchos in Jalisco:
> 
> Rancho de Animas
> Sauz de los Marquez
> El Salto or just Salto (formerly Salto de los Romeros I'm hoping)
> 
> I was hoping that the phone book that covers from Colotlan, Jalisco 
> including everything North to Tepetongo, Zacatecas would have those 
> phone numbers including others I'm sure I'd be interested in. I 
wish I 
> could get my hands on that phone book.
> 
> thanks,
> 
> joseph

Joseph,

What "casetas" are you most interested in?  

There is a chance that the information might be available or 
requested through Telmex.

Victor

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes  wrote:
> thanks much for this information. I'm hoping to find out things 
like the 
> phone numbers to the "cassetas" in the ranchos out in the country. 
I 
> would very much like to find a source of phone books. I thought a 
Social 
> organization of some sort might be able to help me either by 
mailing me 
> a phone book or photocopying pages of their phone book for the 
surnames 
> I need. I'd prefer to purchase the whole phone book but have 
understood 
> they are not available even for purchase unless you live in the 
> community. I also thought that if there are books like the ones you 
> mention these organizations/historical-genealogical societies would 
be 
> the best ones to know about them. 

thanks much for this information. I'm hoping to find out things like the
phone numbers to the "cassetas" in the ranchos out in the country. I
would very much like to find a source of phone books. I thought a Social
organization of some sort might be able to help me either by mailing me
a phone book or photocopying pages of their phone book for the surnames
I need. I'd prefer to purchase the whole phone book but have understood
they are not available even for purchase unless you live in the
community. I also thought that if there are books like the ones you
mention these organizations/historical-genealogical societies would be
the best ones to know about them. I guess if we each wrote a letter to
the town chronicler of our specific area in Jalisco, Zacatecas, and
Aguascalientes and then shared that information with the group we could
make the groups resources rich with information. . .both for us and for
those that are yet to join.

Thank You Victor for your participation

Hey Victor,

The books you mention are actually the ones I have.  Sorry, I didn't 
know the names but I recognize them.

The three books I currently have are:
- Los Valdes de Totatiche
     {I descend from the Valdes family, Joseph Leandro Valdez Lopez 
and Maria Josepha Grano Covarrubias}
- Estirpe Sacerdotal Campos-Jara
     {I descend from the Campos family, Pedro Leon Gaeta Sierra and 
Maria de la Luz Campos Huerta.}
- El Sacerdocio Ministerial - Singular Don a la Parroquia de Totatiche
     {I descend from the Grano family, through the same line from 
above Joseph Leandro Valdez Lopez and Maria Josepha Grano Covarrubias}

The areas I am researching are:
Totatiche and Colotlan in Jalisco
Momax, Tlaltenango, Atolinga, Tepechitlan in Zacatecas

Some of the surnames I am researching are:
Cardenas, Carreon (Carrion), Gaeta, Godina, Huerta, Huizar, Luna, 
Miramontes, Perez, Raigosa (Raygoza), Avila, Campos, Castaneda, Correa
(s), Covarrubias, Grano, Lopez, Marques (Marques De Los

Sorry,  I meant to say that Maria Eduviges Gonzales
Flores is Felipe and Lucia's daughter, NOT Lucia's
sister.  My Ggrandfather is not listed however, Andres
Gonsalez Flores, Maria Eduviges' sibling.  Sorry for
the confusion.


Dora


--- dora gomez  wrote:

> Joseph,
> 
> I have seen part of this file.  He has my
> gggrandfather and gggrandmothe listed: Felipe
> Gonzales
> and Lucia Flores, but that is where it ends. 
> Lucia's
> sister is listed Maria Eduviges Flores and her
> husband
> and a few descendants.  I feel that some of the
> dates
> on the listed are incorrect also.  I have emailed
> this
> gentleman and he has responded to me, but I am still
> in the process of sending him some information so he
> may respond to my inquiries.
> 
> Felipe and Lucia were from Hacienda El Mezquite,
> Fresnillo de Gonzalez Echeverria, Zacatecas.
> 
> Dora
> 
> P.s. My husband has submitted his DNA and I am
> awaiting anxiously to see the results.  
> --- Joseph Puentes 

Joseph,

I have seen part of this file.  He has my
gggrandfather and gggrandmothe listed: Felipe Gonzales
and Lucia Flores, but that is where it ends.  Lucia's
sister is listed Maria Eduviges Flores and her husband
and a few descendants.  I feel that some of the dates
on the listed are incorrect also.  I have emailed this
gentleman and he has responded to me, but I am still
in the process of sending him some information so he
may respond to my inquiries.

Felipe and Lucia were from Hacienda El Mezquite,
Fresnillo de Gonzalez Echeverria, Zacatecas.

Dora

P.s. My husband has submitted his DNA and I am
awaiting anxiously to see the results.  
--- Joseph Puentes  wrote:

> 
> I just found something that is probably old news for
> most of you. I was 
> looking around the Pedigree Resource File (PRF) and
> found this person:
> 
> Submitter:
> 
> 	Benicio Samuel Sanchez GARCIA
> Ramon Lopez Velarde 729 Contry La Silla Guadalupe,
> Nuevo Leon, Mexico 
> 67173 		
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
>

I just added the bookmarks to "Pueblos on the Web" (only the ones 
that weren't there of course)

Hadn't realized that you had that list.  Sorry.  You may delete my 
previous post if you wish.


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes  wrote:
> great. if you don't mind and only if you have time can you put them 
in 
> the folder in the "links" area called: "Pueblos on the Web" started 
by 
> S. Apodaca:
> 
> put them in their appropriate folder:
> 
> 

Hi Angie,

On my visit to Totatiche last summer I also bought a copy of the "Los 
Valdez" and "Los Jara" books by Don Esteban Valdez.  

Besides the books you mention, I know of a couple more, which I also 
bought:  "Historia de Totatiche" and "Historia de Totatiche II".  
I obtained also the following smaller works:

Un Sacristán en Monterrey - Crónicas
Estirpe Sacerdotal Campos-Jara
El Sacerdocio Ministerial - Singular Don a la Parroquia de Totatiche

Of his latest book I still don't know, because last July he said it 
was still a work in progress and he was only at the start of that 
project.  He did mentioned that it would be mostly about the 
genealogy of several families from Totatiche.  I'm going to try to 
find out if he has any other books and I'll let you know when I do.

It is good for me to know that we share a common interest in that 
area of Jalisco.  I'll let you know when I upload some of my 
ancestors so you can check if you see familiar names/surnames.

Victor

---

Victor,

I have a copy of the Valdez book.  My great-grandparents are in it.  
But their line stops with them.  I guess he doesn't know any of their 
descendants.  I also have a book on the Campos-Jara family.  My 
family descends from this same Campos family, but not the Jara 
family.  I have a third book written by Esteban Valdes Salazar on the 
Grano family that again, my family descends from.  I have been 
curious what other books he has written.  Would you happen to have a 
list?  I wonder where I could get a list of book titles?

I believe his sister is in Momax, Zacatecas which is very close to 
Totatiche, Jalisco.  I think she has written several books about 
Momax.

Thanks,
Angie


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "vela_este"  wrote:
> 
> Hi Joseph,
> 
> Not genealogical societies in the strict sense, but I understand 
that most of the cronistas locales or "town chroniclers" have an 
national association of their own that includes all of México.
> 
> Last

Some links of interest:

Totatiche                 http://www.totatichejalisco.com
Totatiche                 http://www.totatiche.com
Tlaltenango               http://www.tlaltenango.com
Temastian                 http://www.temastian.com
Tepechitlán               http://www.tepechitlan.com
San Martín de Bolaños     http://www.sanmartinjalisco.com
Juchipila                 http://www.juchipila.com
Villa Guerrero            http://www.villaguerrero.com
Tomatlán                  http://www.tomatlan.com
El Refugio                http://www.refugianos.com
Huejucar                  http://www.huejucar.net
Monte Escobedo            http://monteescobedo.grupozacatecas.com
Atolinga                  http://www.atolinga.com

If I find some more I'll post them.  Do you have any others?

Victor