(NuestrosRanchos) Huizar

Hi AG,
I am looking for a Maria Huizar... She would have
Been born in the late 1850's to the early 1860's...
I am finding out that Huizar is not a very common
surname... she married a Cristobal Hernandez, and

Comments

Comment

I have seen this surname in the Mezquitic records.

Good luck,
Martha

Comment

Hello Marty and all the intrested in Huizar !! I have relation to the Huizar family, there is not much information on them and also is a uncommon surname and very tricky to write for indexers, sometimes it is missed spelled from writers on the original forms and on the indexing. The Huizar from Valparaiso is where I have the latest info for my family but it results that from 1834- 1865 there are missing records I am going to contact the church to ask if they do not have them or they are just not online available. There is why it is very little information on this surname. Hope everyone finds their roots and if you have more information please share. The last I have from my genealogy are these people: Crisanto Guisar married to Gertrudis Castañon born about 1850-60 they have as a child Marto Huizar born about 1880, who is my great grandfather but I have no records of any of them.

Comment

I am searching for marto huizar he was a cowboy in zacatecas worked for the Amaro family was married and on a trip his wife died and married an Amaro woman who he was traveling with because the Amaro family was getting away from the constitutionalist army !! Stablished on durango and had his family there!!
barbara melendez

Busco informacion de Marto Huizar era un arriero en zacatecas y trabajopara la familia amaro el era casado y en un viaje su esposa murio asi que se caso con una mujer de las Amaro a quien llevaba huyendo del ejercito Constitucionalista.
Se establecieron en Durango y ahi tuvieron a su familia.

Comment

andrew martell
hello my great grandpa was huizar and married to alvina gaeta

Comment

Marty,

Sorry, I didn't find any information on your Maria Huizar.

Here is my 2nd great grandparents:
Jose Roman Huizar and Maria Leonarda Cardenas -
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/VR/individual_record.asp?recid=1…

I still have family in the Rancho Agua Gorda, which is where Roman indicates his birth location.

For those of you who have the book:
Los Valdes de Totatiche, Leonarda Cardenas' picture is on the back cover. It is also found within the book on her family's page. Leonarda was the great granddaughter of Jose Leandro Valdes for whom the book is based on.

Marty when you are searching for Huizar relatives in the IGI or VRI index, be sure to spell it both Huizar and Huisar to get accurate records. Also occasionally I have seen it spelled Guizar and Guisar.
And once I even seen it spelled Quisar but when I ordered the film, the person who extracted the record mistook a G for a Q.

Many of the Huizar names in the IGI/VRI in the Totatiche and Colotlan area are related to me. Some can also be found in Momax and Tlaltenango, Zacatecas. I haven't seen any yet in Fresnillo but I will keep a look out for you. If you ever find out any additional names let me know and I will take a look again.

Good Luck on your search,
Angie Godina

Comment

Hi Angie,
My name is Amelia Macias and my family surnames are Huizar, Gutierrez, Del Real, Carrillo. They were from Colotlan, Bonquilla, Cuculiten and Totatiche, Momax, El Zapote

Some names:
Victor Nunez Huizar1847, Bonquilla
Ygnacio Carrillo Huizar1821, Bonquilla
Jose Antonio Del Real 1819, Momax
Maria Gaeta, 1846, Totatiche

My brother Felipe Huizar Gutierrez still lives in Colotlan

Comment

In a marriage record (1767 Aguascalientes), the parents of the groom
are left blank. In another recording of the same marriage, it says
"Expuesto Domingo García" in the space for the groom's parents. Can
anyone tell me what this means?

Stuart Armstrong
mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com

In reply to by Stuart Armstrong

Comment

Expuestos son los niños que eran abandonados en las puertas de las iglesias, claustros, conventos y en casas de vecinos del pueblo o ciudad. Cuando se abandonaban en las Iglesias y sus propiedades se les llamaba "Hijos de la Iglesia".
Lic. Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez
> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 07:33:53 -0600> From: stuartarms@gmail.com> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] expuesto> > In a marriage record (1767 Aguascalientes), the parents of the groom> are left blank. In another recording of the same marriage, it says> "Expuesto Domingo García" in the space for the groom's parents. Can> anyone tell me what this means?> > Stuart Armstrong> mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
_________________________________________________________________
P.D. Live Search tiene una sorpresa buenísima, chécala aquí.
http://www.ganabuscando.com/Default.aspx

In reply to by rodolfosinai

Comment

Rudolfo is correct and I was also told that sometimes these children called expuestos were the child of the man of the house and someone other than his wife.  It takes going further in the records to see if the child stayed with this family or not.
 
In checking records I found one family where the male child when by the surname of the home he was left (De la Cueva) at and then at least 30 years later he is using a different surname (Hurtado) which I think means he found who his actual parent (male or female) was.  This made for some interesting records since some of his children started using the new suname and others continued to use his old surname.  Finding lineage is sometimes very challening.
 
Linda no longer in B.C., now in Everett Wa.

--- On Tue, 9/30/08, Rodolfo Sinai Gomez wrote:

From: Rodolfo Sinai Gomez
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] expuesto
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 6:42 AM

Expuestos son los niños que eran abandonados en las puertas de las iglesias,
claustros, conventos y en casas de vecinos del pueblo o ciudad. Cuando se
abandonaban en las Iglesias y sus propiedades se les llamaba "Hijos de la
Iglesia".
Lic. Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez
> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 07:33:53 -0600> From:
stuartarms@gmail.com> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org> Subject: [Nuestros
Ranchos] expuesto> > In a marriage record (1767 Aguascalientes), the
parents of the groom> are left blank. In another recording of the same
marriage, it says> "Expuesto Domingo García" in the space for the
groom's parents. Can> anyone tell me what this means?> > Stuart
Armstrong> mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

In reply to by longsjourney

Comment

Erlinda, no siempre el niño expuesto en las puertas de alguna casa era hijo de los que allí habitaban. Es un tanto difícil comprobarlo, podemos sacar concluciones de ese hecho cuando la raza del expuesto corresponde a la de los habitantes o a la mezcla resultante según la raza de la madre, o a que el expuesto sea adoptado y apadrinado por los señores de la casa, o a los expedientes matrimoniales si es que llegó a la edad adulta y contrajo nupcias, pero la verdad es muy difícil asegurar eso. En ocasiones los expuestos ni siquiera son apadrinados por los dueños de la casa.
El uso de los apellidos era un tanto libre, los esclavos, hijos bastardos, hijos adoptados, y hasta ahijados podían sin ningún problema tomar los apellidos del amo, padre biológico o adoptivo, o del padrino. O los hijos de un mismo matrimonio podían tomar apellidos distintos, los de la madre o de algún abuelo.

Lo importante es no contemplar la historia con los prejuicios de nuestro tiempo, ni tratar de interpretarla según nuestra visión del mundo. Cada tiempo y sociedad se regía por distintas leyes, credos, dogmas, formas de pensar que tal vez sean ilógicas para nosotros.

Debemos dejar abierta cualquier posibilidad y buscar la verdad en datos comprobables sin interpretar nada dentro de nuestros parámetros.
Lic. Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez
> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:01:44 -0700> From: longsjourney@yahoo.com> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] expuesto> > Rudolfo is correct and I was also told that sometimes these children called expuestos were the child of the man of the house and someone other than his wife. It takes going further in the records to see if the child stayed with this family or not.> > In checking records I found one family where the male child when by the surname of the home he was left (De la Cueva) at and then at least 30 years later he is using a different surname (Hurtado) which I think means he found who his actual parent (male or female) was. This made for some interesting records since some of his children started using the new suname and others continued to use his old surname. Finding lineage is sometimes very challening.> > Linda no longer in B.C., now in Everett Wa.> > --- On Tue, 9/30/08, Rodolfo Sinai Gomez wrote:> > From: Rodolfo Sinai Gomez > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] expuesto> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org> Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 6:42 AM> > Expuestos son los niños que eran abandonados en las puertas de las iglesias,> claustros, conventos y en casas de vecinos del pueblo o ciudad. Cuando se> abandonaban en las Iglesias y sus propiedades se les llamaba "Hijos de la> Iglesia".> Lic. Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez> > Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 07:33:53 -0600> From:> stuartarms@gmail.com> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org> Subject: [Nuestros> Ranchos] expuesto> > In a marriage record (1767 Aguascalientes), the> parents of the groom> are left blank. In another recording of the same> marriage, it says> "Expuesto Domingo García" in the space for the> groom's parents. Can> anyone tell me what this means?> > Stuart> Armstrong> mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --> -- -- --> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email> to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription,> log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org> _________________________________________________________________> P.D. Live Search tiene una sorpresa buenísima, chécala aquí.> http://www.ganabuscando.com/Default.aspx> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org> > > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
_________________________________________________________________
Live Search premia tus búsquedas, llévate hasta ¡Un Auto!
http://www.ganabuscando.com/Default.aspx

In reply to by longsjourney

Comment

Compañeros

Busco parientes que me puedadn dar datos de:

Micaela Quesada Islas
Regino Quesada Caldera
Benito Santillan Rodriguez
Magdalena Lopez Quesada

Nacidos en Nochistlan y Mexticacan

Gracias de antemano
Antonio Santillan
_________________________________________________________________
P.D. Live Search tiene una sorpresa buenísima, chécala aquí.
http://www.ganabuscando.com/Default.aspx

In reply to by Jose Antonio S…

Comment

No tengo respuesta de parientes, donde puedo encontrar informacion????> > Compañeros> > Busco parientes que me puedadn dar datos de:> > Micaela Quesada Islas> Regino Quesada Caldera> Benito Santillan Rodriguez> Magdalena Lopez Quesada> > Nacidos en Nochistlan y Mexticacan> > Gracias de antemano> Antonio Santillan> _________________________________________________________________> P.D. Live Search tiene una sorpresa buenísima, chécala aquí.> http://www.ganabuscando.com/Default.aspx> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
_________________________________________________________________
Live Search premia tus búsquedas, llévate hasta ¡Un Auto!
http://www.ganabuscando.com/Default.aspx

Comment

Amelia,

I am researching my sister -in-laws family from this area. There are Carillo
and Gaeta surnames. You can find the information in the files area under
Edgar, Eric ( Tlatenango. etc)

Eric Edgar

On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 11:17 PM, roots wrote:

>
> Hi Angie, My name is Amelia Macias and my family surnames are Huizar,
> Gutierrez, Del Real, Carrillo. They were from Colotlan, Bonquilla,
> Cuculiten and Totatiche, Momax, El Zapote
>
> Some names: Victor Nunez Huizar1847, Bonquilla
> Ygnacio Carrillo Huizar1821, Bonquilla
> Jose Antonio Del Real 1819, Momax
> Maria Gaeta, 1846, Totatiche
>
> My brother Felipe Huizar Gutierrez still lives in Colotlan

In reply to by robledo (not verified)

Comment

Hello,

Are any of you related to CANDELARIO HUIZAR GARCIA DE LA CADENA (1883-1970)
from Jerez, Zacatecas

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de eric edgar
Enviado el: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 12:37 PM
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Huizar Surname

Amelia,

I am researching my sister -in-laws family from this area. There are Carillo
and Gaeta surnames. You can find the information in the files area under
Edgar, Eric ( Tlatenango. etc)

Eric Edgar

On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 11:17 PM, roots wrote:

>
> Hi Angie, My name is Amelia Macias and my family surnames are Huizar,
> Gutierrez, Del Real, Carrillo. They were from Colotlan, Bonquilla,
> Cuculiten and Totatiche, Momax, El Zapote
>
> Some names: Victor Nunez Huizar1847, Bonquilla
> Ygnacio Carrillo Huizar1821, Bonquilla
> Jose Antonio Del Real 1819, Momax
> Maria Gaeta, 1846, Totatiche
>
> My brother Felipe Huizar Gutierrez still lives in Colotlan

Comment

Hi Rick, I have him in my records but I am not related.  If you go to Rootsweb.com and enter his name it will give you whatever information I have.  I do enter my source records if you click on the name.  He's in my records because of the Mireles connection, again not related but I track surnames that my families in the District of Jerez married into.
 
Linda in Everett Wa.

--- On Tue, 9/30/08, Rick Rodriguez wrote:

From: Rick Rodriguez
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Huizar Surname
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 2:03 PM

Hello,

Are any of you related to CANDELARIO HUIZAR GARCIA DE LA CADENA (1883-1970)
from Jerez, Zacatecas

Comment

Hello Amelia,

You are researching this family:
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/AF/pedigree_view.asp?recid=43072…

Right? Someone else just recently asked me about this family, but I can't remember who... I need to check my notes which are currently not with me.

Anyway, from what I remember, as far as a know, I am not related to this family of Huizar. I suspect if you research a generation further back we will have a link into my family of Huizar. Also, if I remember correctly this line of Del Real family married into the Cardenas family, of which I also decend from. But I could not see that marriage in the above link. So I may be mistaken. Do you have any Cardenas relatives? Also, I think we do share the Gaeta family, but again I could not see that marriage in the above link. Could you send me more information on your Gaeta family?

Thanks,
Angie Godina

Comment

ooh, Cuculiten! ! ! tell us exactly when and who comes from Cuculiten?
yes I have relatives: Diaz and Castaneda and Miramontes and Rodriguez
from Cuculiten but not the surnames you mention. Maybe some of my
relatives were neighbors of your relatives or possibly even their
children played together many years back.

And is it the Boquilla which is close to Colotlan? I think you have it
misspelled. I have cousins that are not in the group that have relatives
the currently live in Boquilla and that have been their for hundreds of
years. I might be able to dig up some pictures but from what I remember
it is not much to look at other than some foundations of fallen houses
and overgrown.

joseph

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://h2opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

roots wrote:
>
> Hi Angie, My name is Amelia Macias and my family surnames are Huizar,
> Gutierrez, Del Real, Carrillo. They were from Colotlan, Bonquilla,
> Cuculiten and Totatiche, Momax, El Zapote
>
> Some names: Victor Nunez Huizar1847, Bonquilla
> Ygnacio Carrillo Huizar1821, Bonquilla
> Jose Antonio Del Real 1819, Momax
> Maria Gaeta, 1846, Totatiche
>
> My brother Felipe Huizar Gutierrez still lives in Colotlan

Comment

Hi every one!!! it's me Michael Huizar here in Texas... Just tieing in Relatives in Michagan. Huizar Family Reunion in less than 2 Months!!! San Jose Mission is going to be jumping!!! be here!!! Huizar Family Reunion 2010!!!

Comment

In Los Angeles, one of the City Councilman is named "Huizar" and he is from Fresnillo.

Marty wrote: Hi AG,
I am looking for a Maria Huizar... She would have
Been born in the late 1850's to the early 1860's...
I am finding out that Huizar is not a very common
surname... she married a Cristobal Hernandez, and
they had at least 2 children that I know of.... Zenona
Hernandez and a sister whose name I do not know.

It is very possible that lived in Colotlan andTotatiche
In Jalisco.

Thank you for contacting me and letting me know.

Marty

-------Original Message-------

From: A G
Date: 12/12/06 16:13:45
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org; marty@vvm.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Researching Huizar

Hey Marty,

Welcome to the group. I am researching Huizar also.
Except that my Huizar family are from Colotlan and
Totatiche in Jalisco. It's not that far from
Fresnillo, I think...

Do you have any specific names? I can look them up
and see if I have any relatives with those names.

Take a look at my files if you are interested.

Angie Godina

--- Marty wrote:

> Hello Everyone,
> my name is Marty and I am researching for my
> ancestry in the vicinity of the city/town of
> Fresillo in Zacatecas, Mexico... I am very intrested
> in the Sur-names of:
> Arroyo
> Villasana
> Hernandez
> Huizar
>
> If anyone has any of these Sur-names in their
> ancestry I would like to hear from you.
>
> Marty

Need help reading light writing on my GG Grandmother Maria Dimas De La Paz (1819 - 1885)

I found the difunto record of my GG Grandmother Maria Dimas De La Paz (1819 - 1885). The writing is kind of light. Can any of you help me read it?

Comments

Comment

Número 7. En Huejuquilla a 20 días del mes de enero de 1885, ante el juez que inscribe, el Ciudadano Calixto Madera, soltero, labrador, de 31 años, compareció a las 9 de la mañana manifestando que: hoy a las 5 de la mañana falleció de pulmonía en el rancho de la Mesa del Santo Cristo su madre María Dimas de la Paz a los 65 años de edad, viuda, vecina, hija legítima de Don Máximo de la Paz y de Doña ¿Agatona? Ledesma, finada, y continuó pidiendo se ordene la inhumación del cadáver en el cementerio de la capilla del Santuario de esta villa. Fueron testigos de este acto los ciudadanos Tomás Robles y Santiago Madera, mayores de edad, de esta vecindad y sin parentesco con el compareciente. Se le dio lectura, y conformes con su contenido firmaron.

Regards,
Victoriano Navarro

Comment

Thank you Victoriano,

"en el cementerio de la capilla del Santuario de esta villa"

The Sancuario is the "Santuario Del Divino Preso" that is another church, a smaller one that is up the street from "Parroquia De San Diego."

Now wonder I can't find her catholic record in the "Parroquia San Diego" records of LDS. She was recorded in the Santuario De Divino Preso Church which there are no record copied into LDS archives.

I am familiar with that church. I was told by someone that there were people buried in the atrio of the church.

This is a video of a "danza" for the Sanctuario of Divino Preso Church" where they are coming into the front door. If you see a tower way in the background. That tower is of the "Parroquia De San Diego" that is down the street from this church:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amGq7-z8bx4

Maria Begona Egurvide (1833) from Hacienda San Mateo Buried in Capilla of Hacienda San Antonio?

I am looking at the defunto records of Huejuquilla El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico.

Comments

Forever

I just saw an episode of a TV show named Forever (Warner Channel Latinoamérica, lunes, 22 hrs), it had an interesting genealogy quote:

Comments

Comment

Having looked at my royal ancestors (Howards), and read a little bit about them, I am not particularly excited about being descended from most of them. But the unsung heroes among the poor and destitute - who had no remembrance of courts and castles - yet whose lives were lives of courage, faith, suffering, compassion, and generosity - THESE are the Kings and Queens, whom I am proud to claim as my Ancestors! It is one of the reasons I do genealogy - to discover those forgotten heroes ...

FW: Anthropological Genetic Genealogy: The Celt-Iberian Connection to New Mexican Families (Haplogroup R1b1)

For those of you in this area:

From: Angel R.

Comments

Comment

From: Angel R. Cervantes [mailto:angelrcervantes@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 8:39 PM
To: undisclosed-recipients:
Subject: The Celt-Iberian Connection to New Mexican Families (Haplogroup R1b1)

Hello,

I would like to invite you to attend a lecture on the Celt-Iberian connection to New Mexican Families (Haplogroup R1b1). If you would like to learn more about the mark this ancient civilization made on the Iberian Peninsula then this presentation is for you. There will be a presentation on the subject on March 6, at 3:30 PM, through the University of New Mexico Continuing Education program.

Here is a link to sign up for the presentation:

http://newmexico.augusoft.net/index.cfm?method=ClassInfo.ClassInformati… &int_class_id=68050

Best Regards,

Ángel de Cervantes
Project Administrator
New Mexico DNA Project
Iberian Peninsula DNA Project

P.S. For more information contact Angel

17th Cenury Migration from Zacatecas to Nuevo Mexico

Amalia,

In a message board from 2001 I found this statement:

"Among the original settlers [of Nuevo Mexico] were the Archuleta, Baca, Chavez, Lucero and Montoya families.

Comments

Comment

Hola Members , I have been messing with New Mexican ancestry Lately. I have been only using what is available in the internet. I have some contacts with the new mexico genealogical society. I have not seen records of New Mexico. My question is does any one know if the baptismal records(1800 forward) are like the ones in Jalisco where one could get parents and GrandParents names if not why not , I thought the format was the same all over Mexico.
Thanks
Ronnie

Comment

Funny you say that; Ive been doing and wondering the same! There doesnt seem to be much only but there is a wealth of transcribed books offered by the http://www.hgrc-nm.org/store.html. I dont have an answer for you yet regarding your question but I will soon. I requested records from the NM Archives and will see for myself when they send them. Each record cost me a $1!

Comment

Hi, Ronnie,

For some reason, Family Search hasn't uploaded many New Mexico records, maybe because they were burned by the invading Americans in 1836, or because the Bishops would not allow microfilming, or they have left it to the Universities in New Mexico and Texas. I find the same in Arizona. Arizona and New Mexico were once the Territory of New Mexico. Both the Universities of New Mexico (Las Cruces) and Texas (El Paso and Austin) have projects ongoing to microfilm records but they do not put them online.

The resources I have used include the following:

"Origins of New Mexico Families" by Fray Angelico Chavez ----Published by William Gannon, Santa Fe, New Mexico - 1975 - In Two Parts: the Seventeenth (Century) 1598-1693 ---- the Eighteenth (Century) 1693-1821.

"New Mexico Prenuptial Investigations from the Archivos Historicos del Arzobispado de Durango, 1760-1799
By Rick Hendricks and John B. Colligan, Rio Grande Hisorical Collections, New Mexico State University Library (Las Cruces) 1996

"New Mexico Prenuptial Investigations from the Archivos Historicos del Arzobispado de Durango, 1800-1893
By Rick Hendricks and John B. Colligan, Rio Grande Hisorical Collections, New Mexico State University Library (Las Cruces) 2000

I also use the Paso del Norte censuses for 1601-1806 (no longer online), and the Mexican censuses for New Mexico 1841 and 1850 (I think Ancestry.com has the 1850 census)

The New Mexico Genealogical Library

The Fray Angelico Genealogical Library

Publications of the New Mexico Genealogical Society

GenWeb.com for United States-New Mexico

There are also several private databases available. Contact Stanley Lucero for more information

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: chilerey@msn.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 11:14:06 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nuevo Mexico
>
> Hola Members , I have been messing with New Mexican ancestry Lately. I have been only using what is available in the internet. I have some contacts with the new mexico genealogical society. I have not seen records of New Mexico. My question is does any one know if the baptismal records(1800 forward) are like the ones in Jalisco where one could get parents and GrandParents names if not why not , I thought the format was the same all over Mexico.
> Thanks
> Ronnie
>

Comment

I received my marriage document (church). It is in spanish and has bride groom parents, padrinos and testigos.

Medalla De Plata? Huejuquilla El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico Baptismo

I was going through defunto records of Huejuquilla El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico and ran across this one of "Antonio Lopez" 71 years of age of Rancho San Rafael, "murio de dehidrofecia" I don't know that t

Comments

Comment

Retencion de liquidos en los tejidos. Medalla de Plata es probablemente una imagen religiosa de metal.

Libros a la venta

Los libros se pueden entregar personalmente en la ciudad de México o enviar por algún medio a convenir. Los precios son en pesos mexicanos.

Location of Old Panteon of Huejuquilla El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico

I found out where the old panteon of Huejuquilla El Alto is located. I was told that:

Comments

Comment

My aunt tells me that when she was young, she saw "Animas" at the capilla del Santuario Del Divino Preso church at Huejuquilla El Alto.

They are suppose to be spirits praying. Another person who is from Huejuquilla and 70 years of age told me that when he was a kid he had seen some tombstones at the Divino Preso Church. That they buried some people por "El Atrio por La Iglesia"

And that he has a brother that saw an Anima por "El Atrio De La Iglesia"

He also told me that Animas are "almas en pena" que resan. They come out at 11 p.m

I looked them up in google "animas" and found this picture:

http://oi59.tinypic.com/2wp5hr7.jpg

I showed it to him and he said that is what animas are. Fantasmas

Comment

When I went to Jerez, Zacatecas with my father in the 1960s we saw some seminarians walking around in robes like this. I had seen them before in the church there behind the altar. I had heard some male voices chanting, and I peeked behind the altar and almost fainted. They were all sitting in a row in what looked like tall carved wooden thrones and they had their hoods up covering their faces, so scary. I was told they were praying. I bet they are the ones who go out to the cemeteries to pray and chant. I also heard basketballs bouncing in the courtyard behind the church, and when I entered, the seminarians (or monks?) all ran up the stairs and hid. I was told they do that if women enter their compound, especially if the women were wearing pants. Women were supposed to wear dresses and veils then when in the church compounds.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: zacatecano020@hotmail.com
> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 21:39:38 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Location of Old Panteon of
>
> My aunt tells me that when she was young, she saw "Animas" at the capilla del
> Santuario Del Divino Preso church at Huejuquilla El Alto. They are suppose to
> be spirits praying. Another person who is from Huejuquilla and 70 years of
> age told me that when he was a kid he had seen some tombstones at the Divino
> Preso Church. That they buried some people por "El Atrio por La Iglesia" And
> that he has a brother that saw an Anima por "El Atrio De La Iglesia" He also
> told me that Animas are "almas en pena" que resan. They come out at 11 p.m I
> looked them up in google "animas" and found this picture:
> http://oi59.tinypic.com/2wp5hr7.jpg I showed it to him and he said that is
> what animas are. Fantasmas
>

Comment

Here is a present picture of "La Capilla de La Cofradia" of Huejuquilla El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico:

http://oi62.tinypic.com/1tngvo.jpg

Here is a copy of a page from the "La Cofradias 1632 - 1700" of Huejuquilla El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico. Year is 1633 and it says something about "En este rancho de Juan De Angon La misa de la commeracion de los defuntos"

http://oi60.tinypic.com/2ihbhxf.jpg

A person from Huejuquilla El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico that is much older than me and 70 years of age told me that in 1960, he did get to see the tombstones (lapidas) of the panteon antiguo.

He said they were, "SI ME TOCO VER LAPIDAS COMPLETAS Y ERAN DE CANTERA TALLADA"

I asked him if he remembers any names or dates on the tombstones (Lapidas) he saw in the old panteon of Huejuquilla and he told me:

"PERO NUNCA SUPE QUIEN ESTABA SEPULTADO AHI LAS INSCRIPCIONES ESTABAN CON LETRAS REALZADAS Y OTRAS A CINCEL GRABADAS."

Need Help to decipher? Francisco Madera makes accusation against Blas Escalante in 1786 matrimonio over his daughter

I am trying to find the defunto record of my GGGG Grandfather Francisco Madera whose wife I know is Maria Leocadia De Huizar and they had a son name Juan Venancio Madera in 1762 in Rancho De Los Mader

Comments

Comment

Found a defunto record where the parents are Juan Venancio (Benancio) Madera and Maria Josefa Fernandez.

Year is 1803 of Maria Pantaleon Madera who passed away at age 12 which means she was born in 1793:

http://oi59.tinypic.com/25q6iqt.jpg

My Great Great Grandfather Patricio Madera was born in 1792 to Juan Venancio (Benancio) Madera/Maria Josefa (Last name left out):

http://oi57.tinypic.com/2qv6zhd.jpg

But what is odd when Patricio Madera/Maria Dimas De La Paz had a son "Julian Madera" the brother of my GGF Calixto Madera (1851 - 1923), Patricio's parents are Juan Venancio (Benancio) Madera and Maria Gernonima Fernandez:

http://oi59.tinypic.com/3520prp.jpg

Comment

The hacienda is named after a saint, but the name is abbreviated and hard to read. It seems to be Sn Em°, maybe Sn Ant° which would be Antonio.
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro

Comment

For what I could read, it seems that Francisco Madera is accusing Blas Escalante, son of Juan de Escalante of "deflowering" his daughter Maria Josefa Madera (violado su integridad) and getting her pregnant (ha resultado en sinta) thanks to promising to marry her (con palabra de casamiento). She knew it was hard to get married to him since they were first cousins (hijos de hermano y hermana) but he said he would get a dispensation.
He says they had sex (se mezcló carnalmente con su prima), but did not deflower her nor promised to marry her, and that she was having an affair with a married man who for that reason was expelled from the Hacienda(ella estaba mal entretenida con otro sujeto casado a quien por esa misma causa le había desterrado de la Hacienda).
I think they arrested Blas until they sorted things out (manteniendo en su --y mientras se determina esta causa-- practica en segura custodia al citado ¿Vlas?) but I don't know what happened in the end.
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro

Comment

Wow! Thanks Victoriano for intrepreting it for me. Expelled from La Hacienda? I wonder which one? The closest Hacienda is that of San Antonio De Padua. But her father Francisco Madera is from "Rancho De Los Maderas"

Blas Escalante is from "La Estancia De Los Escalantes" and this is a current picture of La Estancia De Los Escalantes:

http://oi62.tinypic.com/2vvtcmt.jpg

Comment

thank you for posting that photo of la estancia.. it gives life to the story..
Linda in Olympia, Wa

On Thursday, June 5, 2014 11:07 PM, "zacatecano020@hotmail.com" wrote:

Wow!  Thanks Victoriano for intrepreting it for me.  Expelled from La Hacienda?  I wonder which one?  The closest Hacienda is that of San Antonio De Padua.  But her father Francisco Madera is from "Rancho De Los Maderas"

Blas Escalante is from "La Estancia De Los Escalantes" and this is a current picture of La Estancia De Los Escalantes:

http://oi62.tinypic.com/2vvtcmt.jpg

Comment

And here I find that in 1789,

Maria Josefa Madera, hija legitima de Francisco Madera y Maria Leocadia de Huizar:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18567-41742-31?cc=1874591&wc…

I think in that link Maria Josefa Madera is getting married with Juan Cristobal Pinedo who is from La Hacienda de San Mateo:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18567-41742-31?cc=1874591&wc…

And here I found this document where my ggg grandfather Juan Benancio (Venancio)Madera and Maria Josefa Madera were padrinos in a baptism in they year 1773 which would make Juan at 11 years old.

http://oi57.tinypic.com/2gwcigl.jpg

Here in 1792, My gg grandfather Patricio Madera is hijo legitima de Juan Benancio Madera and Maria Josefa (no last name given) and padrinos are Jose and Jesus Escalante:

http://oi60.tinypic.com/swsb3k.jpg

I wonder how Geronima Fernandez came into the picture:

Then when the brothers of my great grandfather Calixto Madera where born in the 1850's and it lists the grandparents as Juan Benancio Madera y Dona Geronima Fernandez such as this one "Julian Madera" who is the brother of my great grandfather Calixto Madera in 1859:

http://oi62.tinypic.com/21j8y2v.jpg

I still don't have a copy of the baptismo of my great grandfather Calixto Madera.

Comment

Here I find in they year 1791, my ggg grandfather Juan Benancio Madera as a testigo (witness) to a matrimonio. It mentions Juan Benancio Madera "casado" and from "puesto de Ximulco."

This tells me that my ggg grandfather Juan Benancio Madera was married sometime before 1791 so I can backtrack and try to find his matrimonio record:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18567-39879-16?cc=1874591&wc…

Comment

What is more interesting is that in 1791 Blas Escalante gets married with Hilaria De La Paz:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18567-40959-52?cc=1874591&wc…

In this archive it says that "Blas Escalante" is the son of Juan Escalante and Maria Antonia Madera.

Earlier my gggg grandfather was upset about the relationship between Blas Escalante with his daughter Maria Josefa Madera and stated they are "primos hermanos."

So that would mean that my gggg grandfather Francisco Madera is related to Maria Antonia Madera the mother of Blas Escalante.

FW: The Indo-European Connection to the Celts (DNA & Language Origin)

From: Angel R.

Comments

Comment

From: Angel R. Cervantes [mailto:angelrcervantes@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 5:34 PM
To: undisclosed-recipients:
Subject: The Indo-European Connection to the Celts (DNA & Language Origin)

Hello,

I would like to invite you to attend a lecture on Anthropological Genetic Genealogy: The Indo-European Connection to the Celts (DNA & Language Origin). If you would like to learn more about the mark this ancient civilization made on Europe then this presentation is for you. There will be a talk on the subject on February 27 at 3:30 PM, through the University of New Mexico Osher program. The class number is 19449.

To register for this Osher class go to the following link:

http://newmexico.augusoft.net/index.cfm?method=ClassInfo.ClassInformati… &int_class_id=68181&int_category_id=18&int_sub_category_id=189&int_catalog_id=0

or

* Call: 505-277-0077, press option 1
* In person: M-F, 8:00am - 5:00pm,
1634 University Blvd. NE
Albuquerque, NM 87102

Best Regards,

Ángel de Cervantes
Project Administrator
New Mexico DNA Project
Iberian Peninsula DNA Project

P.S. For more information contact Angel

Villalobos y Ximenez de Nochistlan

Hola a Todos
Por cuestiones de cambio de ciudad y trabajo estuve muy fuera del foro.

Comments

Comment

Hola,

Efectivamente, los padres de Juan Isidro son Francisco de Villalobos y
María Carrillo y los de Anna son Joseph Jiménez y María Rodríguez por lo
que dice el registro matrimonial.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15184-31891-23?cc=1804458

Los nombres de los padres son iguales en la información matrimonial
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15191-45604-88?cc=1804458

Eso deja un poco de duda si son si son Francisco Manuel de Villalobos y
Casillas casado con Anna Carrillo de Sandi y Rodríquez el 5 de junio 1741
en Nochistlán por ser Anna y no María Carrillo. Aún esa pareja posiblemente
son los padres de Juan Isidro especialmente porque dijo ser de 28 años de
edad en la información matrimonial dando la fecha de nacimiento alrededor
de 1741 que es al año que casaron sus posibles padres.

No he podido encontrar la información matrimonial de Francisco Manuel de
Villalobos y Casillas en Nochistlán para ver que edad reportó tener. Falta
buscar una información matrimonial en otros pueblos de Zacatecas, Jalisco,
y Aguascalientes.

Francisco Manuel de Villalobos y Casillas era hijo de Lorenzo de Villalobos
y Rosa Casillas. La única persona con el nombre Lorenzo de Villalobos que
he podido encontrar es el que fue padre de Phelipe de Villalobos bautizado
19 de marzo 1697 en Lagos de Moreno. La madre es mencionada como María
Rosa. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18573-56050-49?cc=1874591

Para da pistas de la familia Villalobos en Lagos de Moreno en esas fechas
había un Miguel de Villalobos en Lagos que casó el 16 de diciembre 1680 con
Josefa de Espinosa
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18567-42616-8?cc=1874591

Los padres de Josefa están mencionados como Juan de Anda y María de Ortega
y Josefa fue bautizada el 4 de octubre 1661 en Lagos.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18684-25466-58?cc=1874591

Ese Miguel creo que es el que fue padre de Rosa María de Villalobos López
aunque la madre es mencionada como Josefa López y no Josefa de Espinosa
pero en la dispensa de Rosa María su abuela Josefa dice que tiene 70 años
de edad. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18424-14359-3?cc=1874591
Como muchas veces no sabían su edad exacta y usaban varios apellidos en
esas fechas podemos decir que es posible que sea la Josefa bautizada el 4
de octubre 1661 en Lagos. Aparte de eso Miguel de Villalobos y Josefa de
Espinosa tuvieron varios hijos in Lagos y en Teocaltiche y están
mencionados a veces como españoles y a veces como mestizos. Miguel de
Villalobos y Josefa López también tuvieron hijos en Teocaltiche entre las
fechas de los hijos de Miguel de Villalobos y Josefa de Espinoza.

María de Villalobos y Anda 26 de octubre 1681 Lagos de Moreno
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18571-10735-13?cc=1874591
Antonia de Villalobos Espinosa 8 de diciembre 1683 Lagos de Moreno
https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18571-13432-15?cc=187459…
Padrinos Blas Becerra y Matiana de Anda de La Mesa (La Mesa llega a ser de
la familia Villalobos y con el tiempo llega a ser conocida como la Mesa de
los Villalobos)
Luis de Villalobos López 6 de octubre 1686 Teocaltiche
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18685-57706-91?cc=1874591
Nicolasa de Villalobos Espinosa 21 de septiembre 1688 Teocaltiche
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18685-56905-90?cc=1874591
Padrinos Juan de Villalobos y Martín del Campo & Beatríz Romo de Vivar y
Ruiz de Esparza

Los padrinos de Nicolasa de Villalobos Espinosa son importantes porque Juan
de Villalobos y Martín del Campo era hijo de Tomás de Villalobos y Macías
Valadez y de Josefa Martín del Campo y López de La Cruz. Ese Tomás era hijo
de Tomás de Villalobos y Pérez de Nava y de Catarina Macías Valadez y
Villegas

Por la dispensa de Rosa María de Villalobos López sabemos que sus
bisabuelos eran Tomas de Villalobos y Catarina Macias Valadez.

Árbol

[Tronco Tomas de Villalobos y Catarina Macias Valadez]

Tomas de Villalobos..................1..Miguel de Villalobos

Miguel de Villalobos, HN............2..Jacinto de Villalobos

Rosa María de Villalobos, pta....3...Juan Ignacio de Villalobos, pto

Miguel de Villalobos Macías Valadez ca 1645- casó el 14 de febrero 1668 con
Antonia Carrillo de Sandi
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19053-2214-16?cc=1874591

Jacinto de Villalobos tuvo hijos con Dominga Ruiz de Esparza y Rangel entre
1709 y 1722 que significa que se casaron antes de 1709. Tres hijos tuvieron
dispensas que dan sus ancestros.
Eso significa que Juan de Villalobos y Martín del Campo era medio hermano
de Miguel de Villalobos (padre de Rosa María de Villalobos López)

Existe la posibilidad que Lorenzo de Villalobos era pariente, y tal vez
hermano o hijo, de Miguel de Villalobos.

Hay muchas suposiciones pero son las únicas pistas, dentro las fechas que
coinciden, que he podido encontrar para enlazar a Francisco de Villalobos,
padre de Juan Ysidro de Villalobos, con Lorenzo de Villalobos y los
Villalobos de la zona. Pero lo mas seguro es que Juan Isidro de Villalobos
es descendiente deTomás de Villalobos y Pérez de Nava 1604 casado alrededor
de 1634 con Catarina Macías Valadez y Villegas o de su hermano Francisco de
Villalobos y Pérez 1595 casado el 22 de mayo 1640 con María Vásquez de
Retamosa. Esos dos hermanos son los ancestros de casi todos los Villalobos
de Jalisco, Aguascalientes, y Zacatecas.

Saludos,
Armando

2014-06-07 13:08 GMT-05:00 :

> Hola a Todos
> Por cuestiones de cambio de ciudad y trabajo estuve muy fuera del foro.
> Les comparto que tengo un libro de la Genealogía de los Torres de
> Jaen(Gonzalo Torres Martínez), por si alguien requieren alguna información.
> Me gustaría ver si me pudiesen ayudar a encontrar a los orígenes de los
> ascendientes de Juan Ysidro De Villalobos y Anna Ximenez ( que se casaron
> en Nochistlan el 11 de octubre de 1769). Tengo que los padres de Juan
> Ysidro son Francisco de Villalobos y María Carrillo y los de Anna (Creo que
> Joseph) Ximenez y María Rodríguez.
> Gracias de antemano todas las enseñanzas compartidas en el foro.
>
>

Comment

Estimado Armando muchísimas gracias por tus comentarios y por la valiosa y muy interesante colaboración que me has compartido.
te mando un caluroso saludo
Cristóbal Villalobos L

> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 06:54:36 -0500
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Villalobos y Ximenez de Nochistlan
>
> Hola,
>
> Efectivamente, los padres de Juan Isidro son Francisco de Villalobos y
> María Carrillo y los de Anna son Joseph Jiménez y María Rodríguez por lo
> que dice el registro matrimonial.
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15184-31891-23?cc=1804458
>
> Los nombres de los padres son iguales en la información matrimonial
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15191-45604-88?cc=1804458
>
> Eso deja un poco de duda si son si son Francisco Manuel de Villalobos y
> Casillas casado con Anna Carrillo de Sandi y Rodríquez el 5 de junio 1741
> en Nochistlán por ser Anna y no María Carrillo. Aún esa pareja posiblemente
> son los padres de Juan Isidro especialmente porque dijo ser de 28 años de
> edad en la información matrimonial dando la fecha de nacimiento alrededor
> de 1741 que es al año que casaron sus posibles padres.
>
> No he podido encontrar la información matrimonial de Francisco Manuel de
> Villalobos y Casillas en Nochistlán para ver que edad reportó tener. Falta
> buscar una información matrimonial en otros pueblos de Zacatecas, Jalisco,
> y Aguascalientes.
>
> Francisco Manuel de Villalobos y Casillas era hijo de Lorenzo de Villalobos
> y Rosa Casillas. La única persona con el nombre Lorenzo de Villalobos que
> he podido encontrar es el que fue padre de Phelipe de Villalobos bautizado
> 19 de marzo 1697 en Lagos de Moreno. La madre es mencionada como María
> Rosa. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18573-56050-49?cc=1874591
>
> Para da pistas de la familia Villalobos en Lagos de Moreno en esas fechas
> había un Miguel de Villalobos en Lagos que casó el 16 de diciembre 1680 con
> Josefa de Espinosa
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18567-42616-8?cc=1874591
>
> Los padres de Josefa están mencionados como Juan de Anda y María de Ortega
> y Josefa fue bautizada el 4 de octubre 1661 en Lagos.
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18684-25466-58?cc=1874591
>
> Ese Miguel creo que es el que fue padre de Rosa María de Villalobos López
> aunque la madre es mencionada como Josefa López y no Josefa de Espinosa
> pero en la dispensa de Rosa María su abuela Josefa dice que tiene 70 años
> de edad. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18424-14359-3?cc=1874591
> Como muchas veces no sabían su edad exacta y usaban varios apellidos en
> esas fechas podemos decir que es posible que sea la Josefa bautizada el 4
> de octubre 1661 en Lagos. Aparte de eso Miguel de Villalobos y Josefa de
> Espinosa tuvieron varios hijos in Lagos y en Teocaltiche y están
> mencionados a veces como españoles y a veces como mestizos. Miguel de
> Villalobos y Josefa López también tuvieron hijos en Teocaltiche entre las
> fechas de los hijos de Miguel de Villalobos y Josefa de Espinoza.
>
> María de Villalobos y Anda 26 de octubre 1681 Lagos de Moreno
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18571-10735-13?cc=1874591
> Antonia de Villalobos Espinosa 8 de diciembre 1683 Lagos de Moreno
> https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18571-13432-15?cc=187459…
> Padrinos Blas Becerra y Matiana de Anda de La Mesa (La Mesa llega a ser de
> la familia Villalobos y con el tiempo llega a ser conocida como la Mesa de
> los Villalobos)
> Luis de Villalobos López 6 de octubre 1686 Teocaltiche
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18685-57706-91?cc=1874591
> Nicolasa de Villalobos Espinosa 21 de septiembre 1688 Teocaltiche
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18685-56905-90?cc=1874591
> Padrinos Juan de Villalobos y Martín del Campo & Beatríz Romo de Vivar y
> Ruiz de Esparza
>
> Los padrinos de Nicolasa de Villalobos Espinosa son importantes porque Juan
> de Villalobos y Martín del Campo era hijo de Tomás de Villalobos y Macías
> Valadez y de Josefa Martín del Campo y López de La Cruz. Ese Tomás era hijo
> de Tomás de Villalobos y Pérez de Nava y de Catarina Macías Valadez y
> Villegas
>
> Por la dispensa de Rosa María de Villalobos López sabemos que sus
> bisabuelos eran Tomas de Villalobos y Catarina Macias Valadez.
>
> Árbol
>
> [Tronco Tomas de Villalobos y Catarina Macias Valadez]
>
> Tomas de Villalobos..................1..Miguel de Villalobos
>
> Miguel de Villalobos, HN............2..Jacinto de Villalobos
>
> Rosa María de Villalobos, pta....3...Juan Ignacio de Villalobos, pto
>
>
> Miguel de Villalobos Macías Valadez ca 1645- casó el 14 de febrero 1668 con
> Antonia Carrillo de Sandi
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19053-2214-16?cc=1874591
>
> Jacinto de Villalobos tuvo hijos con Dominga Ruiz de Esparza y Rangel entre
> 1709 y 1722 que significa que se casaron antes de 1709. Tres hijos tuvieron
> dispensas que dan sus ancestros.
> Eso significa que Juan de Villalobos y Martín del Campo era medio hermano
> de Miguel de Villalobos (padre de Rosa María de Villalobos López)
>
> Existe la posibilidad que Lorenzo de Villalobos era pariente, y tal vez
> hermano o hijo, de Miguel de Villalobos.
>
> Hay muchas suposiciones pero son las únicas pistas, dentro las fechas que
> coinciden, que he podido encontrar para enlazar a Francisco de Villalobos,
> padre de Juan Ysidro de Villalobos, con Lorenzo de Villalobos y los
> Villalobos de la zona. Pero lo mas seguro es que Juan Isidro de Villalobos
> es descendiente deTomás de Villalobos y Pérez de Nava 1604 casado alrededor
> de 1634 con Catarina Macías Valadez y Villegas o de su hermano Francisco de
> Villalobos y Pérez 1595 casado el 22 de mayo 1640 con María Vásquez de
> Retamosa. Esos dos hermanos son los ancestros de casi todos los Villalobos
> de Jalisco, Aguascalientes, y Zacatecas.
>
>
> Saludos,
> Armando
>
>
>
> 2014-06-07 13:08 GMT-05:00 :
>
> > Hola a Todos
> > Por cuestiones de cambio de ciudad y trabajo estuve muy fuera del foro.
> > Les comparto que tengo un libro de la Genealogía de los Torres de
> > Jaen(Gonzalo Torres Martínez), por si alguien requieren alguna información.
> > Me gustaría ver si me pudiesen ayudar a encontrar a los orígenes de los
> > ascendientes de Juan Ysidro De Villalobos y Anna Ximenez ( que se casaron
> > en Nochistlan el 11 de octubre de 1769). Tengo que los padres de Juan
> > Ysidro son Francisco de Villalobos y María Carrillo y los de Anna (Creo que
> > Joseph) Ximenez y María Rodríguez.
> > Gracias de antemano todas las enseñanzas compartidas en el foro.
> >
> >

Comment

Hola,

Es primera vez que entro a este citio, y ojeando paginas me encontre aqui. Yo tengo informacion de Villalobos. Mi informacion coincide desde:

Juan Isidro Villalobos y Maria Anna Ximenez
Padres de Juan Ysidro: Francisco Manuel de Villalobos y Maria Carrillo
Padres de Maria Anna: Joseph Ximenez y Maria Rodriguez

Francisco Manuel de Villalobos y Maria Carillo

Padres de Francisco: Lorenzo de Villalobos y Maria de la Rosa Casillas Balcones
Padres de Maria: Diego Carrillo y Maria Rodriguez De Santana

Aqui es donde mi informacion toma otra direccion. En tus notas decias que no habias encontrado la informacion matrimonial de Lorenzo y Ma de la Rosa.

Lorenzo de Villalobos y Maria de la Rosa Casillas Balcones
Se casaron 12 Jan 1695, en Nochistlan Zac.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15187-52007-8?cc=1804458&wc=…

Padres de Lorenzo: Antonio de Villalobos y Melchora Reyes
Padres de María de la Rosa: Francisco Casillas Balcones y Francisca Duran

Bueno, talvez no sea la misma familia pero si te sirve de algo mi informacion adelante.

Monica S

Comment

Efectivamente, los padres de Juan Isidro son Francisco de Villalobos y María Carrillo y los de Anna son Joseph Jiménez y María Rodríguez por lo que dice el registro matrimonial. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15184-31891-23?cc=1804458

Los nombres de los padres son iguales en la información matrimonial https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15191-45604-88?cc=1804458

Eso deja un poco de duda si son si son Francisco Manuel de Villalobos y Casillas casado con Anna Carrillo de Sandi y Rodríquez el 5 de junio 1741 en Nochistlán por ser Anna y no María Carrillo. Aún esa pareja posiblemente son los padres de Juan Isidro especialmente porque dijo ser de 28 años de edad en la información matrimonial dando la fecha de nacimiento alrededor de 1741 que es al año que casaron sus posibles padres.

No he podido encontrar la información matrimonial de Francisco Manuel de Villalobos y Casillas en Nochistlán para ver que edad reportó tener. Falta buscar una información matrimonial en otros pueblos de Zacatecas, Jalisco, y Aguascalientes.

Francisco Manuel de Villalobos y Casillas era hijo de Lorenzo de Villalobos y Rosa Casillas. La única persona con el nombre Lorenzo de Villalobos que he podido encontrar es el que fue padre de Phelipe de Villalobos bautizado 19 de marzo 1697 en Lagos de Moreno. La madre es mencionada como María Rosa. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18573-56050-49?cc=1874591

Para da pistas de la familia Villalobos en Lagos de Moreno en esas fechas había un Miguel de Villalobos en Lagos que casó el 16 de diciembre 1680 con Josefa de Espinosa https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18567-42616-8?cc=1874591

Los padres de Josefa están mencionados como Juan de Anda y María de Ortega y Josefa fue bautizada el 4 de octubre 1661 en Lagos. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18684-25466-58?cc=1874591

Ese Miguel creo que es el que fue padre de Rosa María de Villalobos López aunque la madre es mencionada como Josefa López y no Josefa de Espinosa pero en la dispensa de Rosa María su abuela Josefa dice que tiene 70 años de edad. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18424-14359-3?cc=1874591 Como muchas veces no sabían su edad exacta y usaban varios apellidos en esas fechas podemos decir que es posible que sea la Josefa bautizada el 4 de octubre 1661 en Lagos. Aparte de eso Miguel de Villalobos y Josefa de Espinosa tuvieron varios hijos in Lagos y en Teocaltiche y están mencionados a veces como españoles y a veces como mestizos. Miguel de Villalobos y Josefa López también tuvieron hijos en Teocaltiche entre las fechas de los hijos de Miguel de Villalobos y Josefa de Espinoza.

María de Villalobos y Anda 26 de octubre 1681 Lagos de Moreno https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18571-10735-13?cc=1874591
Antonia de Villalobos Espinosa 8 de diciembre 1683 Lagos de Moreno https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18571-13432-15?cc=187459…
Padrinos Blas Becerra y Matiana de Anda de La Mesa (La Mesa llega a ser de la familia Villalobos y con el tiempo llega a ser conocida como la Mesa de los Villalobos)
Luis de Villalobos López 6 de octubre 1686 Teocaltiche https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18685-57706-91?cc=1874591
Nicolasa de Villalobos Espinosa 21 de septiembre 1688 Teocaltiche https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18685-56905-90?cc=1874591
Padrinos Juan de Villalobos y Martín del Campo & Beatríz Romo de Vivar y Ruiz de Esparza

Los padrinos de Nicolasa de Villalobos Espinosa son importantes porque Juan de Villalobos y Martín del Campo era hijo de Tomás de Villalobos y Macías Valadez y de Josefa Martín del Campo y López de La Cruz. Ese Tomás era hijo de Tomás de Villalobos y Pérez de Nava y de Catarina Macías Valadez y Villegas

Por la dispensa de Rosa María de Villalobos López sabemos que sus bisabuelos eran Tomas de Villalobos y Catarina Macias Valadez.

Árbol

[Tronco Tomas de Villalobos y Catarina Macias Valadez]

Tomas de Villalobos..................1..Miguel de Villalobos

Miguel de Villalobos, HN............2..Jacinto de Villalobos

Rosa María de Villalobos, pta....3...Juan Ignacio de Villalobos, pto

Miguel de Villalobos Macías Valadez ca 1645- casó el 14 de febrero 1668 con Antonia Carrillo de Sandi
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19053-2214-16?cc=1874591

Jacinto de Villalobos tuvo hijos con Dominga Ruiz de Esparza y Rangel entre 1709 y 1722 que significa que se casaron antes de 1709. Tres hijos tuvieron dispensas que dan sus ancestros.
Eso significa que Juan de Villalobos y Martín del Campo era medio hermano de Miguel de Villalobos (padre de Rosa María de Villalobos López)

Existe la posibilidad que Lorenzo de Villalobos era pariente, y tal vez hermano o hijo, de Miguel de Villalobos.

Hay muchas suposiciones pero son las únicas pistas, dentro las fechas que coinciden, que he podido encontrar para enlazar a Francisco de Villalobos, padre de Juan Ysidro de Villalobos, con Lorenzo de Villalobos y los Villalobos de la zona. Pero lo mas seguro es que Juan Isidro de Villalobos es descendiente deTomás de Villalobos y Pérez de Nava 1604 casado alrededor de 1634 con Catarina Macías Valadez y Villegas o de su hermano Francisco de Villalobos y Pérez 1595 casado el 22 de mayo 1640 con María Vásquez de Retamosa. Esos dos hermanos son los ancestros de casi todos los Villalobos de Jalisco, Aguascalientes, y Zacatecas.

Saludos,
Armando

Francisco Michel Ordones

I have found a major flaw in my tree.

Comments

Comment

Hello everyone,

So much useful information was presented in these Michel posts that I have had to read and re-read them several times to process all the information. When I first posted on this subject I believed I was not a direct descendant of Francisco Michel Ordones. After researching all this information, it turns out I am a direct descendant after all!

Some of the information was hypothetical and I would like to discuss that. Sergio, you pointed out that you believe Francisco Michel who was married to Juana Betancur Ruiz, married a second time, possibly to Luisa de Gusman. While it's definitely possible he was married twice, why do you suspect that's the case? The baptism you provided for Antonio Michel (son of Juan Michel and Luisa de Gusman) is an interesting clue, even though the father's name is noted as Juan Michel. The problem is that the date of the baptism is 1679. If we accept Manny's data that Francisco Michel, son of Juan Michel and Graciana Corona, was born in 12 May 1609, then that means that our Francisco Michel had Antonio Michel at the age of 70. Not impossible but not as probable either.
The other thing is you said that you have Tomas Michel married to Agustina Vargas as the son of Francisco Michel Ordones but a mother other than Juana Betancur Ruiz. How did you arrive at that conclusion? Thanks to Deedra who provided us with that gem of dispensa, we know that Thomas Michel and Nicolasa Michel were in fact siblings.

Deedra, you also proposed some interesting theories. First that Francisco Michel Ordones married to Michaela Lopez Bueso is the son of Francisco Michel Ordones and Juana Betancur Ruiz. This seems very likely since Salvador Michel, who we know is the son Francisco and Juana, married Maria de la Rosa Lopez Bueso, Michaela's sister. As we know it's common for 2 brothers in a family to marry 2 sisters of another family.
You also proposed that Juan Michel married to Magdalena Cobarrubias is the brother of Salvador, Nicolasa, and Tomas Michel because they were padrinos at various baptisms and weddings of the Michel Family. This seems probable. This couple started appearing in these ceremonies around 1688. Juan Michel and Magdalena had a daughter, Juana Michel who was baptized Aug 15, 1690 (she later went on to marry Juan de Acosta). Magdalena Cobarrubias y Escobar later went on to marry Captain Juan de Fonseca around 1695 which means Juan Michel died between 1690 and 1695.

This information about Juan Michel married to Magdalena Cobarrubias and Juan Michel married to Luisa de Gusman leads me to believe they are the same person. Juan Michel had a son, Antonio with Luisa Gusman in 1679, then later a daughter Juana with Magdalena Cobarrubias in 1690. I estimate Juan Michel to be born between 1650 and 1660 and very possibly the son of Francisco Michel Ordones and Juana Betancur Ruiz.

Lastly I propose that Teresa de Betancur married to Francisco de Monrroy was also a child of Francisco Michel Ordones and Juana Betancur Ruiz. The reason I believe this (besides the name) is because she and her husband were padrinos to Regina Michel, daughter of Francisco Michel and Michaela Lopez Bueso and also Nicolasa Betancur and her husband were padrinos for the marriage of one of Teresa's daughters.

In conclusion and in my humble opinion, Francisco Michel Ordones and Juana Betancur Ruiz had the following children:

Salvador Michel Ordones m. Maria de la Rosa Lopes Bueso (documented)
Nicolasa Michel d. 1719 m. Francisco de Cobarrubias (partially documented)
Thomas Michel Ordones m. Agustina de Escobar y Vargas (partially documented)
Francisco Michel Ordones d. 1709 m. Michaela Lopes Bueso (not documented)
Juana Michel de Betancur d. 1706 m. Hernan Gonzalez Corona (not documented)
Teresa de Betancur d. 1716 m. Francisco de Monrroy (hypothesis)
Juan Michel d. 1690-1695 m. Luisa de Gusman, m. Magdalena Cobarrubias (hypothesis)

Thanks for all the info guys!

Juan Jimenez

P.S. Gil, I have come across some information about sisters Ysabel and Juana de Betancur that you might find very useful. I will post at a later time!

Comment

Hi Deedra,

I am not a direct descendant of either Francisco Michel Ordones, but the Lopez Bueso line plays a major role in my genealogy. I too had pains trying to sort out these 2 couples, but maybe I can help slow the swirl.
Michaela Lopez Bueso was married to your Francisco Michel Ordones (1). She was the daughter of Nicolas Lopez Bueso and Nicolasa Guerrero de Ocon. She was born February 1661 in Sayula and died April 15, 1719 in Tecolotlan. Children are as follows:
1. Juana Michel Lopez Bueso married to Felix de Fonseca Feb 5, 1704 in Tecolotlan. Felix de Fonseca was the son of Juan de Fonseca and Juana Contreras.
2. Maria Michel Lopez Bueso born 1689 in Tuxcacuesco, married Pedro Ramirez Dec 14, 1711 in Tecolotlan. Pedro Ramirez born 1683 in Sayula was the son of Pedro Ramirez and Damiana de Castaneda.
3. Asencio Michel born 1692 in Tecolotlan.
4. Domingo Michel born 1693 in Tuxcacuesco.
5. Regina Michel born 1696 in Tecolotlan, married Pedro Nicolas Uribe May 9, 1728 in Tecolotlan. Pedro Nicolas Uribe was the son of Tomas de Uribe and Maria Estefania Aguilar y Araysa. He was born 1696 in Tecolotlan and later married Maria Magdalena de Arysa y Santana Jan 24, 1733 in Ejutla and Gertrudis Cobarrubias July 15, 1735 in Tecolotlan before he died Nov 5, 1749.
6. Dominga Michel born 1699 in Tecolotlan and died July 20, 1744 in Tecolotlan. She married Joseph de la Encarnacion y Gomez Feb 2, 1725 in Tecolotlan. Joseph Encarnacion y Gomez was the son Pedro Gomez Garcia and Maria de Contreras.

Manuela Lopez Bueso who was married to Francisco Michel Ordones (2) was born 1699 in Tecolotlan and died June 2, 1742 in Sayula. She was the daughter of Gaspar Lopez Bueso and Maria Sanchez Cabezuelas. Gaspar Lopez Bueso was the son of Nicolas Lopez Bueso and Nicolas Guerrero de Ocon (parents of Michaela Lopez Bueso married to Francisco Michel (1)). Children for Manuela Lopez Bueso and Francisco Michel are as follows:
1. Justa Michel married to Lorenzo Preciado Feb 5, 1742 in Sayula. Lorenzo Preciado was the son of Nicolas Preciado and Antonia Figueroa de Medina.
2. Maria Michel married Agustin Preciado Apr 30, 1739 in Tuxcacuesco. Agustin Preciado was the son of Nicolas Preciado and Antonia Figueroa de Medina.
3. Ygnacio Michel born 1718 in Tecolotlan, married Michaela Preciado, daughter of Nicolas Preciado and Antonia Figueroa de Medina. (See a pattern?)
4. Maria de la Concepcion Michel born 1719 in Tecolotlan.
5. Barbara Michel born 1722 in Tecolotlan, married Juan Antonio Preciado Feb 26, 1743. Juan Antonio Preciado was the son of Antonio Preciado and Michaela Gonzalez Lozano.
6. Antonia Lugarda Michel born 1726 in Tuxcacuesco.
7. Maria Lucia Michel born 1727 in Tuxcacuesco, married Bernardo Javier Hernandez Aug 23, 1744 in Sayula. Bernardo Javier Hernandez was the son of Nicolas Hernandez and Mariana Salvatierra.
8. Juan Mathias Francisco Michel born 1729 in Tuxcacuesco, married Maria Hilaria Preciado who was the daughter of Nicolas Preciado and Antonia Figueroa de Medina. Hilaria died in 1780 and Juan Mathias remarried Maria Ygnacia Cobarrubias on July 24, 1780 in Ejutla. Ygnacia Cobarrubias was the daughter of Francisco Cobarrubias and Feliciana Santana.
9. Antonio Feliciano Michel, often noted as Felix or Felis, was born 1730 in Tuxcacuesco. He married Maria Augustina Vasquez, daughter of Joseph Vasquez and Maria Antonia Preciado.
10. Thomas Michel born 1732 in Tuxcacuesco and died June 19, 1787. He married Juana Josepha Uribe, daughter of Pedro Nicolas Uribe and Gertrudis Cobarrubias.
11. Francisca Javiera de la Merced Michel was born 1734 in Tuxcacuesco.

I do have a record that Franciso Michel Ordones (2) married a second time to Lorenza Gertrudis Gonzalez but I have only one child that I added to my tree, Maria Magdalena Michel.

I did notice that you have Ygnacio Michel as the son of Michaela Lopez Bueso but his baptism record in 1718 shows the mother as Manuela Lopez Bueso (Michaela died 1719 at age 58).
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18721-65621-29?cc=1874591&wc…

Good luck,

Juan Jimenez

Comment

Everyone, last week was very productive with so much shared information on the Michels thank you all for sharing and rechecking this family information. Regarding the Preciado family's close connection to the Lopez Bueso's, curious to know Juan, if you have the parents of Maria Antonia Preciado the mother of Maria Augustin Vasquez. Would Maria Antonia Preciado be the sister of Juan Antonio Preciado or is she the grand-daughter of Nicolas Preciado? NEVER MIND - Finally saw you clarified she is Nicolas's daughter.

Also, on my tree I have Ygnacio/Ignacio Michel born in 1718 as the son of Manuela Lopez Bueso
from the following dispensation provided by Deedra.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-29495-12368-12?cc=1937239…

This dispensation covers the connected relationships that allowed the great-grandchild of Manuela to marry the grand-child from her brother Joseph Caytano: Juan Jose Michel with Maria Candalaria Cobian.

Much thanks eveyrone!

Gil

Comment

Hello Gil and NR Friends,
Here is the Dispensa I used to make the connection to her parents.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-31174-2563-38?cc=1937239&…

Also, I have a Testamento for Agustin Maria Michel, son of Francisco Michel and Lorensa Gertrudes Gonzales. This is the only document I have found that establishes him as their son.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18561-65972-5?cc=1874591&wc=…

Deedra Corona

Comment

Hola a todos,

He estado algo ausente de la Genealogía estos meses pero ocasionalmente reviso este foro y me encontré la discusión sobre este tema que esta relacionado con mis antepasados Michel.

Me parece muy valiosa la información que han aportado hasta ahora, pero tengo una duda que espero alguien pueda resolverme...De acuerdo a los datos que tengo Juan Michel Ordoñez y Graciana Corona tuvieron por hijo a Francisco Michel Ordoñez que casó con Juana de Betancur y Ruiz y ellos son los padres de Juana, Nicolasa y Salvador. La duda es que a Tomás Michel esposo de Agustina de Vargas-Machuca y Escobar, lo tengo como hijo de Francisco Michel Ordoñez y Corona pero a su madre con el nombre de Luisa de Guzmán. Entonces Francisco casó en dos ocasiones? Tomás y los demás Michel son en realidad medios hermanos? Y de ser así sabemos algo sobre la familia de Luisa de Guzmán?

Gracias y saludos.
Enrique Agraz

In reply to by Salvador94

Comment

Hello Enrique Agraz, How wonderful of you to join the party!

It is possible, again, that there are too many people with the name of Thomas Michel...as well as Francisco Michel. Personally I have 5 Thomas Micheles in my tree, some may be people that I have been unable to hook up with their families.

There is a Thomas mentioned in this Dispensa who is listed as the brother of Nicolasa Michel:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-29495-12880-93?cc=1937239…
Therefore the son of Francisco Michel and Juana Betancur-Ruiz? Is this the same Tomas married to Agustina Vargas y Escobar and as you say Francisco may have been also married to Luisa de Guzman? as well as Agustina; or is this an entirely different Tomas? May we ask you your source? I personally don't have Luisa de Guzman in my tree and couldn't locate anything about her.

I also have Thomas Michel married to Juana Josefa Uribe, son of Francisco Michel Ordones and Manuela Lopez Bueso Betancur. I have Thomas, son of Thomas and Agustina Vargas y Escobar. Also, later in time, Thomas Michel married to Josefa Cobarrubias also Thomas Michel married to Antonia Cobarrubias.

I'm frustrated, but together we will surely find success in sorting out this puzzle.

Thank you,
Deedra Corona

In reply to by Salvador94

Comment

Dear Deedra, Enrique, Gil and Juan,

Here are some more clues on the Michel family:
There were at least three distinct Francisco Michel :
To respect Deedra’s designation, Francisco (1) Michel, died 1709. Francisco (2) Michel was born 1694, and died after 1744. So the third Francisco actually came before the other two, so we will call him “0”. I just re-wrote to Alfredo Ignacio Peña, who kindly gave me the image of the 1609 baptism in Guadalajara. It was also Alfredo who told me that Francisco (0) was married twice to see if he had the marriage documents. He says he is about to publish a book on the Michel involvement in the Cristero wars that it will include the genealogy. But he also says he will send me the documents he has when he gets a chance. So, I will wait for more on that. So IF, and only if we can prove that Francisco (0) is the son of Juan Michel and Graciana (by finding those marriages, THEN, here is the image of the baptism of Francisco (0):
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18621-66712-40?cc=1874591&wc…

Now, as stated above I have that Francisco (0) was married TWO times, the first time to Juana de Betancourt Ruiz (or Ruiz de Betancour), and the second time to Luisa de Guzmán.

First Marriage:
Proof of the first marriage can be seen from Salvador Michel’s marriage to Maria de la Rosa Lopez Bueso in 1688, where Salvador was the son of Francisco Michel and Juana de Vetancor (sic. Betancour). Importantly, both Francisco and Juana are listed as “difuntos,” meaning that they had died. That also lends some credence to the 1609 birth date. It also means that Salvador had to be at least 18-20 years old.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18715-13486-33?cc=1874591&wc…
If Francisco (0) died before 1688, that means that the Francisco Michel (1) that died in 1709, husband of Michaela Lopez Bueso, HAD to be a different one. Given the similarity of names, I agree with you Deedra, that he (1) was probably the son (maybe even the firstborn) of Francisco Michel (0) and Juana de Betancourt. But we can’t prove it for sure yet. The death record for Francisco (1) does say though that he made a will, so finding that will would be worth more to us than however much he left to his heirs!!
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18721-8269-65?cc=1874591&wc=…

So, to recap on Francisco (0)’s children by his first wife, Juana de Betancourt
- Salvador Michel-Ordoñez (?-before 1708), married to Maria Rosa Lopez Bueso.
Children NOT proven, but suspected:
- Francisco (1) Michel (?-1709), married to Michaela Lopez Bueso (?-1719).

Second Marriage:
As to Francisco (0) Michel’s second marriage to Luisa de Guzmán, the following baptism names the father as “Juan Michel,” rather than Francisco. Some would say Francisco (0) was called “Juan Francisco,” but I would say we need MORE documents, and cannot say Francisco and Juan are the same person. But in any case, Luisa de Guzman DID exist.
- Antonio Michel, baptized 13 Jun 1679 in Autlan, and of whom I do not know more.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18561-21218-98?cc=1874591&wc…

Children NOT proven by document, but suspected
- Tomas Michel (d. before 1702), married to Augustina de Vargas-Machuca y Ruiz de Escobar

Now, regarding Juana de Betancur:
There were probably at least two women named this. The first is the first wife of Francisco (0) Michel, which can be seen with Salvador Michel’s marriage listed above. But I do not have more concrete information for her. The reason I think she was the first wife is because otherwise both Juanas would be contemporaneous and married to two different men.
The second Juana de Betancor was the wife of Hernán/Fernán González-Corona (ca. 1662-after 1668). They had the following children:
- Graciana Corona (baptized 10 Sep 1662), married to Joseph Lopez de Andrade on 6 Jun 1677 in Autlan.
Baptism, says Juana was “legitima mujer” of Hernan Gonzalez, meaning his legitimate wife.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18561-21829-37?cc=1874591&wc…
- Juana, baptized 7 Apr 1665 in Autlan
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18561-21896-30?cc=1874591&wc…
- Francisca, baptized in Autlan 11 Oct 1666 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18561-21786-31?cc=1874591&wc… she later married Francisco Madrueño Gonzalez and had a number of children
- Nicolas (of whom there are many in Autlan), baptized 14 Feb 1668 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18561-21698-58?cc=1874591&wc… Interestingly, the godfather is Gaspar Michel, of whom I have no more information.
There is a Juana de Batancor who died in Autlan on 20 Nov 1706. Given that Salvador Michel’s marriage in 1688 said his mother Juana had died before then, this must be a different Juana, and thus probably the widow of Hernan Gonzalez Corona. Also, it says “el novenario que pago su yerno Fran.co Madrueño,” which would make sense if he is the husband of Francisca (see above).
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18531-30925-97?cc=1874591&wc…
And a last word on Domingo Michel:
Domingo Michel, son of Francisco (1) and Michaela Lopez Bueso, died 21 Apr 1730 in Tecolotlan. Thanks to Juan’s post, I was able to connect a random Domingo Michel I had in my files to this family. Notice how in the death record it says that “se le dijeron quarto missas resadas que dio la limosna Pedro Ramíres.” That makes sense if Pedro Ramírez is Domingo’s brother-in-law, married to his sister María Michel on 14 Dec 1711 in Tecolotlan. Here is Domingo’s death record:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18562-9072-60?cc=1874591&wc=…

Hope this helps!

Sergio Salés

Comment

HI Sergio,

Thanks for all the info on the the three Francisco Michels and Thomas Michel. I too have all 4 of these Michels in my tree but cannot make the connection between them. Your reasoning makes total sense and hypothesis seems likely true.

You also asked about the source of Maria Augustina Vasquez's parents. The source is a marriage dispensation for Pedro Michel and Ana Maria Corona who married Feb 25, 1811 in Ejutla.
Their marriage record can be found here:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18567-5274-10?cc=1874591&wc=…
And their dispensa can be found here:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18426-92276-43?cc=1874591&wc…
Their dispensa contains two family trees. One shows the descendants of our Francisco Michel (2) who was married to Manuela Lopez Bueso. The second tree shows the descendants of Jose Vasquez. From these 2 trees you can make at least a couple of deductions. The first that Felis Michel was married to Agustina Vasquez because the trees show that they were the parents of Jose Maria Michel.
The second deduction is that Agustina Vasquez was the sister of Jose Maria Vasquez and their father was Jose Vasquez. Jose Maria Vasquez was married to Maria Valeria Michel. They married Jan 10, 1776 in Tuxcacuesco. According to their marriage record found here: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18735-65911-14?cc=1874591&wc…, Jose Maria Vasquez was the son of Jose Vasquez and Maria Antonia Preciado. Valeria Michel was the daughter of Thomas Michel and Juana Josepha Uribe. (Thomas Michel was the son of Franciso Michel (2)). Therefore Agustina Vasquez was the daughter of Jose Vasquez and Maria Antonia Preciado. (Maria Antonia Preciado was the daughter of Nicolas Preciado and Antonia Figueroa de Medina.)
I don't have much info on Jose Vasquez. But I do have that he had at least 4 children with Maria Antonia Preciado:
1. Jose Maria Vasquez who as mentioned above was married to Valeria Michel.
2. Jose Vasquez married to Rosa Garcia de Alba on Sept 25, 1762 in Ejutla. Rosa Garcia de Alba was the daughter of Juan Manuel Garcia de Alba and Juana de Santana.
3. Juan Antonia Vasquez who married Dionicia Garcia de Alba April 14, 1766 in Ejutla. Dionicia Garcia de Alba was the daughter of Juan Manuel Garcia de Alba and Juana de Santana.
4. Maria Augustina Vasquez who as mentioned above was married to Antonio Feliciano Michel.

By the way, I have a Gaspar Michel that married Maria Cobarrubias de Escobar July 6, 1683 in Ciudad Guzman. The record mentions that he is from Tecolotlan, but no mention of his parents. The parents of Maria Cobarrubias were Antonio de Cobarrubias and Maria de Escobar. Here is the link: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18457-64981-61?cc=1874591&wc…

Hope this helps you. Happy Thanksgiving!

Juan Jimenez

Comment

I have Michel way back in my lines and haven’t gotten around to researching them in depth, so this seems a good place to air out what I have.

Besides the few documents I’ve found, the only lead I have for this line is from a previous Nuestros Ranchos thread, which gives the origin: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/19058

In my lines I have Micaela Michel Ordoñez aka Micaela Corona, baptized 29 Sep 1602 in Guadalajara; daughter of Juan Michel Ordoñez and Graciana Corona, her padrino was Gabriel Ordoñez (who I assume is her uncle). She married Juan Cortes Mudarra 3 Feb 1625 in Guadalajara; they moved to Charcas, SLP in summer of 1633; Micaela (Corona) was buried 26 May 1680, in Charcas, SLP.

I have her father, Juan Michel Ordoñez, as the son of Cristobal Ordoñez and Francisca Ruiz Farache - I am seeking documentation for this link. I don’t know who Graciana Corona’s parents are - would any of you have her pedigree?

In addition to Micaela, I have Juan Michel and Graciana Corona with two more children:
Juan Michel Ordoñez, b. 11 Jul 1607, Guadalajara; m. Juana Betancourt Ruiz
Francisco Michel Ordoñez, b. 12 May 1609, Guadalajara, m. Luisa de Guzman.

There is a marriage record for Melchor Espinosa married to Jusepa de Torrequemada (sic Torquemada?), 09 Jun 1602. The notary wrote “hiija de Gabriel digo Cristobal Ordoñez.”
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JCDK-8JY
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18621-67202-13?cc=1874591&wc…

Melchor Espinosa and Juana Torrequemada had 2 children that I know of; on their baptism records, she uses the surname “Rifarache”:
Juan Espinosa-Rifarache, b. 13 May 1603, Guadalajara.
Manuel Espinosa-Rifarache, b. 15 May 1614, Guadalajara.

My question is: is Jusepa de Torrequemada aka Jusepa Rifarache a daughter of Cristobal Ordoñez and Francisca Ruiz Farache? And if so, what is the link to Torrequemada?

Thank you in advance for any assistance.
Saludos,

Manny Diez Hermosillo
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/jrefugioghermosillo

Comment

Manny, you add some more great pieces to the family puzzle identifying information that could have been easily overlooked because of the variations on names but I am at a loss to answer the question. Using the baptism date for Juan Michel you provided I did want to provide his record for those like me who are catching up rather fast:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18621-66877-20?cc=1874591&wc…

Also I am unable to find the records for Manuel and Juan searching this book
from 1603 foward:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18621-67198-32?cc=1874591&wc…

Gil Topete

Comment

Hello Gil,

Sorry, I should've provided those:

Juan Espinosa Rifarache, 13 May 1603
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18621-67073-36?cc=1874591&wc…

Manuel Espinosa Rifarache 15 May 1614
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18621-66702-38?cc=1874591&wc…

On the same image that has the marriage of Melchor Espinosa and Josepha de Torrequemada, the first entry on the left side is for Juan Pedro Cardenas and Ana Maria de Torquemada (the ceremony was performed by Juan de Torquemada); I wonder is there is any relation?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18621-67202-13?cc=1874591&wc…

I’ve found 5 children for Juan Pedro Cardona and Maria Torquemada, and there is no reference to “Rifarache.” I haven’t pulled the records, I’ll check to see who padrinos are.

Manny Diez Hermosillo
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/jrefugioghermosillo

Comment

Hola primos,

Here are the ordenes for Gabriel Ordoñez, son of Cristobal Ordoñez and Francisca Rifarache, Sep 1600, Guadalajara, Jalisco.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12044-35376-48?cc=1502404&…

The first testigo, whose name I haven’t deciphered yet, says his wife is a 1st-cousin of Francisca de Rifarache.

Francisca de Rifarache was already deceased, but Img18b has Cristobal Ordoñez as a testigo, and he gives Gabriel’s birthdate as 20 Sep 1579, in Autlan. Cristobal gives his own age as "sesenta" or "setenta" anos mas o menos. That places his birth year between 1530 & 1540, so it's likely an arbitrary number. Regardless, it’s primary source, it places him and Francisca Rifarache in Autlan on 20 Sep 1579, it places him alive and in Guadalajara in Sep 1600, and it has his signature.

Here are the ordenes for his grandson, Diego de Espinosa, son of Melchor Espinosa and Josepha Ordoñez aka Josepha de Rifarache y Torquemada:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18377-26104-59?cc=1874591&wc…

So that establishes Josepha Ordoñez aka Josepha de Rifarache y Torquemada as a daughter of Cristobal Ordoñez and Francisca Rifarache. And it adds the surname “Torquemada” to the mix.

Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comment

Hello Gil,

Oops, it was another archive I was looking at, when I posted. My bad. Try this, and if it doesn't work, it's on Guadalajara
Diócesis de Guadalajara Ordenes 1600-1699, img18b

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18377-22191-56?cc=1874591&wc…

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comment

Hi everyone,

I have Francisco Garcia de Alba y Ruiz marrying Casilda Ortega y Maldonado. Francisco's parents are Francisco Garcia de Alba and Isabel Ruiz Galindo. I am looking for my backup but unfortunately I think this may have been updated on my tree when I confirmed a match with someone else's tree.

Does anyone have information to clear this up?

Thanks,

Erika Rivera

In reply to by rikiribera

Comment

Dear Erika,
Your question has been hotly debated before, but there has not been (as far as I know) a clear answer on the parents of Francisco García de Alba, married to Casilda de Ortega y Maldonado. The closest evidence I’ve seen comes from a Dispensa written in 1699. It mentions an Isabel Ruiz (or possibly Ruiz de Betancor) (1). The Dispensa is for Isabel’s grandson, Antonio García de Alba (6) and Faustina de Betancur y Alarcón Tresalba (12). This dispensa was requested because Antonio (the groom) was the grandson of Isabel Ruiz, while Faustina (the bride) was the granddaughter of Isabel’s brother Nicolas de Betancor (2).

It gives the parents of Antonio (6) as Diego García de Alba (4) and María Gomez de Aguirre(5), while the parents of Faustina (12) were Francisco de Betancur y Alarcón (10) and Juana Sánchez (11). An important note, though, is that I have NOT seen Isabel’s last name anywhere in a primary document as “Ruiz Galindo.” If there is one I would be happy to see it.

Here is the link to the Dispensa from 1699:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18427-14347-18?cc=1874591&wc…

Antonio and Faustina were finally married 8 Oct 1699 in Autlán. Here is the marriage document:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18522-1198-15?cc=1874591&wc=…

Put more simply:

Generation Ia) Isabel Ruiz de Betancor (1) and Nicolás de Betancor (2) were siblings (I do not know their parents’ names). Isabel Ruiz de Betancor (1) married (?) García de Alba (3). They had:

Generation IIa) Diego García de Alba (4), married María Gomez de Aguirre (5). They had :

Generation IIIa) Antonio García de Alba (6), baptized 25 Aug 1675 in Tecolotlán. Padrinos: Juan de Vetancur (7) (sic.) and María de Mora (8) (who had at least three children). The baptism link is listed below:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18721-60927-38?cc=1874591&wc…

Generation Ib) Nicolás de Betancor (2), married Isabel Gomez (9). Nicolás (2) died 6 Aug 1676 in Tecolotlán, although his death record says he was from Tuxcacuesco. Isabel Gomez (9) died 2 Sep 1683 in Tecolotlán, and both death records are below:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18721-6128-37?cc=1874591&wc=…

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18721-7161-34?cc=1874591&wc=…

Generation IIb) Francisco de Betancur y Alarcón (10), married Juana Sanchez (11). They had:

Generation IIIb) Faustina de Betancur y Alarcón Tresalba (12)

Theory 1: It is possible that Diego’s father was a Francisco García de Alba.

Fact: as of yet I have NOT seen a primary document that says so.
Fact: Isabel Ruiz de Betancor WAS married to a García de Alba. We know that because Antonio was born 1675.
Fact: the earliest Francisco García de Alba (discussed before on this forum) lived in the 1560s. The following is found in Jesús Amaya Topete’s “Ameca: Protofundación Mexicana, p. 67.”
"Siendo vecino de la villa de San Miguel (Ayutla?), obtuvo el 17 de mayo de 1563, merced del virrey Velasco por un sitio de ganado menor en términos de la dicha villa, una suerte de huerta y solar para casa, dentro de la misma y dos caballerías de tierra 'en la parte y lugar donde hubiere'. Sin duda este Don Francisco es el antepasado de todos los García de Alba."

Theory 1 continued: Assuming 20 years per generation his father, Diego, would have been born at the latest by around 1655. Then Diego’s father would have been born at the latest by around 1635. Of course generations can be significantly longer than 20 years. If generations are 30 years, then the date for Diego’s father would be around 1615. If generations are 40 years apart, then the date for Diego’s father would be 1585.

Conclusion: We need more documents. I think most likely there had to be at least one more generation between Diego and the original Francisco García de Alba to connect us back. Regardless of the length of generations, if and when we find this link it will be a huge find.

Finally, here is a list Antonio and Faustina’s children:
- Nicolás García de Alba Betancor, baptized in Autlán 1 Nov 1703. Here is the baptism record:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18561-19811-52?cc=1874591&wc…

- Juan Antonio García de Alba Betancor died in 1728 at age 14. The record also importantly gives us an approximate death date for Faustina, who had died before 1728. Here is the death record:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18562-8413-57?cc=1874591&wc=…

- FranciscA García de Alba Betancor married to Pedro de Herrera 25 Jun 1729 in Ejutla. The reocrd says the mother of the bride is “Agustina de Vetancor, ia difunta.” But given that Faustina signed herself “Augustina” on her dispensa I think Faustina and Agustina are probably the same person. Here is the marriage record:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18567-4327-42?cc=1874591&wc=…

- Joseph García de Alba Betancor, married in Autlán 7 Oct 1737 to Juana Gertrudis López Gutierrez. Importantly, this marriage gives us an approximate death date for Faustina, the mother of the groom, who had died before 1737. Here is the marriage record:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18522-632-21?cc=1874591&wc=M…

On a slightly separate family, on the right side of the image that has Antonio and Faustina’s marriage there is a marriage for Joseph Lopez de Andrade to Ana Gomes de Aguirre. I will post my thoughts on this as a separate topic, but suffice it here to note Ana’s last name as Gomez de Aguirre.

Unanswered Questions (we must prove this with primary documents):

A) Who was the husband (3) of Isabel Ruiz de Betancor (1) ?
B) Were Isabel Gomez (9) and María Gomez de Aguirre (5) and Ana Gomez de Aguirre related?
C) Who was Juan de Betancor (7)? How is he related?
D) Where do Faustina’s other last names come from?

Alright that does it for now!

Sergio

Comment

Thank you, Sergio! I'm going to dig into these records this weekend. It would be great to solve this mystery.

In reply to by ssales1984

Comment

Hi Sergio,

Great job uncovering so much information on the Garcia the Alba and Betancur! I think I can add to your info and hopefully get a clearer picture on the subject.
That dispensa for Antonio Garcia de Alba and Faustina/Agustina Betancur provides a lot of clues. First, it's evident that Faustina uses the names Faustina and Augustina interchangeably in various records. In fact, the dispensa introduces her as "Fagustina" de Betancur y Alarcon. Second, the word "tresalba" after her name is not part of her name, but a casta designation. Literally tresalba translates to "a horse having 3 white feet". In the casta system a tresalbo is produced from an indio and a mestizo. So a tresalbo is 3 parts Indian and 1 part Spanish. (You can find all sorts of casta tables on the internet, here is a link to one http://diadelaetnia.homestead.com/mestizaje.html )
You'll note that the records for her children are either noted as "espanol" or "mestizo".

We know from the dispensa that Faustina was born about 1683 because it notes her age as 16. I do have a record of her death. She died a "sudden" death on June 9th, 1725 in Tuxcacuesco. Here is the link:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18735-67308-9?cc=1874591&wc=…

In addition to the children you listed for Faustina and Antonio, I also have:
Juana Maria Garcia b. May 1701 in Tuxcacuesco
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18684-26982-37?cc=1874591&wc…
She married Guillermo de Contreras Feb 2, 1721 in Tuxcacuesco
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18735-65399-52?cc=1874591&wc…

Juana Gertrudis b. April 1722 in Tuxcacuesco.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18684-27488-48?cc=1874591&wc…

Maria Garcia married to Pedro Aguilar Jan 7, 1740 in Ejutla.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18567-4257-15?cc=1874591&wc=…
Note: It's likely they had more children because there are big gaps in time between the children, especially in the latter years of Faustina.

Now on to Antonio Garcia de Alba. He was a puzzle to me because his dispensa notes he was the son of Diego Garcia de Alba and Maria Gomez de Aguirre. However his daughter, Maria Garcia married to Pedro Aguilar from above, produced descendants who had dispensas that showed her father, Antonio Garcia de Alba, was the son of Francisco Garcia de Alba (married to Casilda Ortega Maldonado). Here are the links to the trees of the 2 dispensas in question:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18411-65819-20?cc=1874591&wc… (Note: the tree actually shows Fernando Garcia at the top, but it should be Francisco Garcia de Alba).

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18414-104945-51?cc=1874591

Somewhere there seemed to be a mistake. Sergio, I did not have the baptism record for Antonio Garcia de Alba, but now that I do, thanks to you, I'm pretty sure the mistake is with the 2 dispensas from above. We know for a fact, that Antonio Garcia was the son of Diego Garcia de Alba. Because the 2 dispensas confuse Francisco Garcia de Alba with Diego Garcia the Alba, I strongly suspect that Francisco Garcia de Alba and Diego Garcia de Alba were brothers. And very possibly had a father named Francisco Garcia de Alba...

By the way, Antonio Garcia remarried after Faustina's death. He remarried Juana Lopez Saavedra on Feb 26, 1729 in Ejutla. Interestingly, both Antonio and Juana Lopez are noted as mestizos in the record.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18567-4254-42?cc=1874591&wc=…

Juan J

In reply to by ssales1984

Comment

Hello All,

Back to the 1699 dispensa for Antonio Garcia de Alba and Faustina Betancur y Alarcon. To review some of Sergio's info:
1. Ysabel Ruiz de Betancur and Nicolas de Betancur were siblings.
2. Nicolas de Betancur was married to Ysabel Gomez. They had:
a. Francisco de Betancur Y Alarcon, married to Juana Sanchez and father of Faustina.
b. Ysabel Gomez de Betancur who married Joseph Brambila de Arriaga in Tecolotlan, 1688.
3. Ysabel Ruiz de Betancur married a Garcia de Alba (possibly Francisco). They had:
a. Diego Garcia de Alba, married to Maria Gomez de Aguirre, parents of Antonio Garcia.
b. Possibly Francisco Garcia de Alba, married to Casilda Ortega Maldonado.

Add to this another dispensa for Salvador Cobarrubias and Efigenia Garcia de Alba in 1752. In this dispensa Ysabel de Betancur was the sister of Juana de Betancur. Their mother was Ysabel Francisca Ruiz. Ysabel de Betancur was the mother of Francisco Garcia de Alba (married to Casilda Ortega Maldonado). We now have the mother of Ysabel Ruiz de Betancur and Francisco Carcia de Alba. And not only is this proof that Ysabel Ruiz de Betancur was the mother of Francisco Garcia de Alba, but combined with the dispensa for Faustina, we can conclude that Francisco Garcia de Alba and Diego Garcia de Alba were in fact brothers.

Just as important is the other branch of this tree, Juana Betancur. In the dispensa, Juana Betancur had a daughter, Nicolasa de Betancur who had Salvador de Cobarrubias. From previous posts, we learned that Juana Betancur Ruiz was married to Francisco Michel Ordones. From this dispensa we now know that they did indeed have a daughter, Nicolasa de Betancur who married Francisco de Cobarrubias.
Here is the link to the dispensa:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18411-37137-82?cc=1874591&wc…

Someone in an earlier post on this discussion had mentioned the sisters Juana and Ysabel Betancur Ruiz as the daughters of Ysabel Francisca Ruiz and Hernando de Alaracon Betancur. I do not have any info this Hernando, but the name makes sense since in the 1699 dispensa, Faustina and her father, Francisco are both referred to as Betancur y Alarcon. Also I vaguely remember reading here or elsewhere that Francisco Garcia de Alba who married Casilda Ortega Maldonado was the third generation of men named Francisco Garcia de Alba. If that's the case, then Ysabel Ruiz de Betancur was likely married to a Francisco Garcia de Alba. Maybe someone can corroborate some of this information?

From the 2 dispensas, we can conclude that Ysabel Francisca Ruiz (possibly married to Hernando de Alarcon Betancur) had the following children:

1. Juana Betancur Ruiz who was married to Francisco Michel Ordones.
2. Nicolas de Betancur who was married to Ysabel Gomez.
3. Ysabel Ruiz de Betancur (or Betancur Ruiz) who was possibly married to Francisco Garcia
de Alba.

Sergio, I bet when can probably add Juan Betancur, married to Maria Mora to that list. However I do not have any documentation to support this. I can offer a clue in the baptism record of one their children, Diego Betancur. He was baptized Aug 3, 1677 in Tecolotlan. The godparents are listed as Nicolas (name is torn) Betancur and Ysabel Gomez Duran. So it is likely that Nicolas de Betancur and Juan Betancur were brothers (or other relation). Here is the link to the baptism:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18721-60934-43?cc=1874591&wc…

One last thing, there is a third dispensa that has a tree with Ysabel Francisca Ruiz. However there is a mistake on the right side of the tree. You can probably figure it out. It doesn't provide new information, but I include it anyway as further documentation. The link is to the tree.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18413-88450-35?cc=1874591&wc…

Juan J

Comment

Hello, Sergio, Enrique, Gil, Juan, and NR friends,

There has been a lot to absorb and compare. Firstly, I would like to concede that Gil was correct regarding the name of Maria de Navarette. When I studied it again what I had mistaken for Lucia is actually "Olios a."

For the children of Juana Betancur AKA Michel Ordones and Hernan Gonzales Corona I also have: Fernando Gonzales Corona married to Angela Caro-Renteria. In the marriage Juana is referred to as Juana Michel.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18715-13236-15?cc=1874591&wc…

In the baptism of his daughter, Juana, it mentions that Angela is widowed; meaning that Fernando died sometime during 1703.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18561-19692-27?cc=1874591&wc…

Not sure if it has been provided previously, but for Domingo Michel Ordones I have a baptism: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18684-28421-25?cc=1874591&wc…

Sergio, please keep us informed regarding the book by your friend, Alfredo Ignacio Peña, and how we might purchase it.

Thank you,
Deedra Corona

Comment

Sergio, amazing! Thanks for so many referenced documents. When I just began building out my tree on the Michels two years ago I cold-contacted Alfredo Ignacio Peña who guided me to prove my connection to the Perez de Alencastre family. He also provided me with a partial list of family names that went straight to Diego Martin who married Elvira Ordones the parents of Cristobal Ordonez (Just searching the last name Ordonez list indexes dating back to 1548).

At the time his computer with all his data had crashed and he was in pursuit of the hard copy family book with all the Michel info in it. I have since lost contact with Alfredo and I recall he was at a dead-end on Diego Martin's origins.

Now that said, on myheritage.com the family tree service I use, there is another member who may be a member here too and I asked her to join in on the conversation-- her tree has a Juana de Betancor Ruiz circa 1610 with a sister Isabel Betancor Ruiz married to Francisco Garsia de Alba, as the father of Francisco Garsia de Alba married to Casilda de Ortega.

I hope she may have documents to confirm her connections but they certainly fit in the time line if confirmed. She goes one better listing the parents of Juana and Isabel as Hernando de Alarcon Betancor and Isabel Francesca.

On a side note in anticipation of Alfredo's book, my grandfather Eulalio Torres was a Cristero commander in Michoacan.

Gil Topete

Comment

Gil Topete
Not sure if you picked over these bones already that provide more indirect clues...I am also related to Captain Juan de Fonseca and his other son married Juana Lopez Boeso, the daughter of Francisco Michel Ordonez and Micaela Lopez Boeso (see bottom right continued on next page:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18715-13491-42?cc=1874591&wc…

But also, based on the original post, Cristobal Ordonez had several son's one also named Francisco much earlier...I am surprised that with so many sons and daughters of Micaela and Francisco that none of their children's baptism records are not revealing better clues?

Thank you for your other links. Does your information substantiate my guess that Manuala Lopez-Bueso had a brother Joseph Cayetano Lopez Bueso? His name in one form or the other is listed as the godfather of two of Manuelas children: Barbara and Antonia Lugarda. Know that your information Provided Gaspar has Manuela's father, I still have not connected Joseph to Gaspar.

Comment

Hello Gil Topete,

Thank you for your input into this puzzle. Indeed Manuela and Josef Cayetano (married to Margarita Ramirez Habellano) were siblings based on this Dispensa:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1961-29495-11106-51?cc=1937239…

I hope this is helpful to you. We'll continue the search and hopefully, together, we can resolve this. And I thought I had it all under control!!
Thank you
Deedra Corona

Comment

Hi Deedra,
It seems we get to help each other again. I don’t have all the info you need, but I can help make a couple things more certain.

As far as I can tell, I am not a descendant of Francisco Michel-Ordoñes (1), but I do descend from the Francisco Michel Ordoñes (2) you mention. I do not know Francisco (1)’s parents. There was a Francisco Michel Corona, born 1609 in Guadalajara, and he is probably related, but there must be an intermediate generation at least.

Here is what I do have:
For Francisco Michel- Ordoñes (1) and Micheala Lopez-Bueso Betancur (?-1719), I also have the following children:
Dominga (?-1744), Asencio (1692-1727), Regina (1696-?), Juana (?)
Then I know that Michaela died 15 Apr 1719 in Tecolotlan:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18721-6814-12?cc=1874591&wc=…

As far as Francisco Michel (2) and Manuela Lopez Buezo, you correctly point out his parents were Thomas Michel and Augustina de Escobar. I am not certain about Augustina’s info. She must have also used Vargas, making her name Augustina Vargas de Escobar, as you can see from Francisco’s 2nd marriage. There is the possibility she was born in Guadalajara as a Vargas-Machuca, but I can’t find my notes on that. You also provided us with the death date for Manuela Lopez Buezo, so thanks! That record also confirms that she was the daughter of Gaspar Lopez Buezo and Mariana Sanchez Cabezuela. You may already have had this (and her parents’ names), but Manuela’s baptism is in Tecolotlan in 1699:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18721-58847-34?cc=1874591&wc…
I don’t have a death date for Francisco (2)
For the children of his first marriage, you have a Julio Feliciano, but I descend from Antonio Feliciano (aka Felix) Michel, baptized in Tuxcacuesco on 11 Nov 1730, born Oct 19.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18684-26893-39?cc=1874591&wc…
Do you have concrete info on Julio Feliciano as a different person than Antonio Feliciano?

Hope this helps!

Sergio Salés

Comment

Hello Gil and Sergio, thank you for your help. Its always more fun to work as a team.
I have come to the belief, as yet unproven, that Francisco Michel Ordonez, married to Michaela, is the son of Francisco Michel and Juana Betancur Ruiz. This would make him the brother of Salvador, Nicolasa, and Thomas. It is very possible that Juan Michel, married to Magdalena Cobarrubias is their brother as well as this couple are padrinos in several weddings and baptisms within this family. However this remains speculation with no definitive proof...waiting for a miracle.

Sergio, I apologize for giving the wrong name for your ancestor Antonio Feliciano. I was probably looking at the next name, Justa Maria, and change Antonio to Julio in my mind. Also, that was a very good call regarding Agustina Vargas Escobar and the Vargas Machuca family. Here is the link for her baptism:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18378-14449-7?cc=1874591&wc=…

Also the marriage of her sister Maria Ana:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18715-13671-40?cc=1874591&wc…

And baptism for her brother Francisco:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18721-61850-38?cc=1874591&wc…

The search continues!!!
Deedra Corona

Comment

Hello Gil,

You are way ahead of me. The oldest Garcia de Alba I have is Francisco married to Mariana Casilda Ortega Maldonado in Tecolotlan. I do have Juana Betancur Ruiz married to Francisco Ordones Corona, but no family for her. I also have Juana Michel Ordones Betancur (who I suspect is their daughter) married to Hernan Gonzales-Corona. I have Isabel Betancur Gomez married to Josef Brambila y Arrriaga in 1688 (Daughter of Nicolas Betancur and Isabel Gomez.

Deedra Corona

Comment

Hi Deedra and Sergio, I found the following record for the baptism
of Maria Navarrete Corona in Autlan, June of 1641. While these names
are more discernible than those under Maria Ana's marriage, is this
another daughter? Seems unusual to get married 45 years later unless
Maria and Maria Ana are two different daughters.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18561-23053-11?cc=1874591&wc…

I think its clear that the names are of her parents are Luis de Navarrete and Luisa or Lucia Corona. Not Jesus de Navarrete as indexed on Maria Ana's record. Also I am
beginning to think Lucia/Luisa is closely related to Graciana Corona who was married to Juan Michel Ordonez II.

Your thoughts?

Gil Topete

Comment

Deedra and Sergio, focus on the names of the de Navarrete and Corona's. I hit reply only after I suddenly realized Maria is the sister of Hernan de Navarrete Corona and not Maria Ana Vargas de Escobar.

Gil Topete

Comment

Hello Gil,
Thank you for this link. I have gone through this book several times and missed this and the baptism below it for Agustina Josefa Gonzales Corona.

The writing is a bit difficult to understand, but we are talking about the same family: Jesus (Luis) Navarrete and Luisa Corona. However, in reading it I believe the daughter's name is "Luisa Maria"; even though it says "Maria" in the column. Obviously she is the older sister of Hernando Navarrete. You know some of those women got married in their early teens and continued having children into their 40's. I know a couple who had a son younger than their own great-grandson! Also interesting is the madrina: Marianna Aguayo who baptized her own daughter only a few days later.

As far as Jesus vs. Luis I think it is possible that he went by both. Some people use a Christian or Biblical name along with a given name. When my kids were baptized the priest added Jose and Maria before their names. Its also possible that the when they got married the priest misunderstood "Luis" for "Jesus." I accept they are the same person.

It is very possible that Graciana and Luisa are sisters but until we have definitive proof it remains a "possibility."

Thank you for your help and insight,
Deedra Corona

Comment

Gil Topete

Sergio, I too descend from Antonio Feliciano through his son Antonio Jose Martin Michel.
What is uncanny, and perhaps evident to both of you is that both documents Sergfio has provided links to happen to have other Michel information on them.

The first page list the death of Nicolaza Michel in March, while page two lists the death of Michaela.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18721-6814-12?cc=1874591&wc=…

The following baptism record for Manuela from 1699 reveals the baptism record for Francisco Michel and Michaela Guerrero and their daughter Dominga...is this a coincidence? Or does everyone agree that Michaela Guerro is Michaela Lopez Bueso. If so Sergio, you have your baptism date for Dominga 1699 to 1744.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18721-58847-34?cc=1874591&wc…

Comment

RJ Quiralta

Well they are definitely two different people, time frame says it all, in the first couple, does the kids records mention the full composed name on the parents? the burial just says Michel for him and Hueso for her. Either case I would say that both parties are likely families since the ones in Autlan were from Tecocolotlan too, meaning that the two Franciscos were like you suggested Uncle-Nephew and the wives were likely related too, (Aunt-Niece, Cousins, etc).

Introduction and information on Ysabel Macias

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum

I'm Danny and I've been researching my family for about a month.

Comments

Comment

Hi Emilie,
I descend from your Magdalenos, and this family can get confusing because they use multiple surnames and given names. But, those are not the correct parents of your Bernabé Magdaleno (de Don Diego).  This dispensa shows that Ildefonso González and María Antonia Magdaleno were second cousins and received a waiver in the 3rd degree and it shows both descend from (Juan) Don Diego Magdaleno and (Michaela) Rosa de Aguirre (Mendoza)/Limón:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18411-50259-77?cc=1874591&wc…

As you can see from the dispensa, your Bernabé Magdaleno is the son of (Juan) Joseph Magdaleno and Isabel Limón. And, (Juan) Joseph Magdaleno is the son of (Juan) Don Diego Magdaleno and (Michaela) Rosa de Aguirre(Mendoza)Limón.

Bernabé Magdaleno (de Don Diego) married María Gertrudis Pérez on 29 Oct 1752 in Santa María de los Lagos, Jalisco, México:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18560-25051-6?cc=1874591&wc=…

María Gertrudis Pérez is the daughter of Joseph Pérez de Ornelas and Quitería de Luera. Joseph Pérez de Ornelas and Quitería de Luera married 10 Feb 1732 in Santa María de los Lagos:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18571-2328-10?cc=1874591&wc=…

Quitería de Luera is the daughter of Jacinto de Luera and Theresa Martel.  Joseph Pérez de Ornelas is the son of Marcos Pérez de Ornelas and María López. In "Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara" by Maria de la Luz Montejano Hilton on page 567, #2850, there is a dispensa that lists the parents of Marcos Pérez de Ornelas and María López:

Lagos de Moreno. Jal. Marzo 27 de 1702. Exp. 212.- Dispensa de tercero con segundo grado de consanguinidad.- Marcos de Ornelas, español de 23 años de edad. orginarío y vecino de esta feligresía de Santa María de los Lagos, hijo legítimo de Juan Pérez y de Leonor de Ruvalcaba. difunta, con María López, española por su aspecto parece ser de 20 años de edad, originaría de la feligresía de Xalostotitlan y vecina de esta feligresía, hija legítima de Rafael de Mendoza y de Cathalina López, difunta. Declaración del pretenso: Porque Beatriz López fué hermana de Cathalina López, y la dicha Beatriz López, tuvo por hijo a Juan Pérez, y éste me tuvo por su hijo, y la dicha Cathalina López, tuvo por hija a María López, pretensa. 13 fojas.

Christopher de Cuellar

Comment

Paige,

Yes --- Bernabe and Gertrudis were the gggg-grandparents of my husband Antonio C. Garcia. Their daughter Maria Antonia Magdaleno married Yldefonso Joseph Gonzales. Their son Gregorio Gonzales married Maria Ramona Ornelas. Their daughter Antonia Gonzales married Estanislado de Jesus Garcia. Their son Simon Garcia married Marciana Cervantes. Their son Primitivo Garcia married Maria Hinojosa de Gutierrez. Their son Enrique Garcia married Maria de la Paz Acosta, and their son is my husband Antonio Carlos Garcia. Antonio and his father Enrique were born in El Paso, TX. Everybody else was born (in his paternal line) in Encarnacion.

Did you find Bernabe's and Gertrudis' parents? I couldn't find them.

Thanks,

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 18:52:13 -0800
> From: herrerapaige77@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction and information on Ysabel Macias
>
> Emilie,
>
> Is your Bernabé Magdaleno married to Gertrudis Pérez?
>
> Paige

Comment

Paige, Apparently Bernabe had a second wife after Gertrudis, and in the baptism of their daughter Luciana it gives his parents' names, Pedro Antonio Magdaleno and Peronila Cervantes.

Name:Maria Luciana Magdaleno Magdaleno Gender: Female Christening Date: 03 Jun 1811 Christening Place: LA ENCARNACION, ENCARNACION DE DIAZ, JALISCO, MEXICO Father's Name:Bernave Magdaleno Mother's Name:Anastacia Magdaleno Paternal Grandfather's Name: Pedro Antonio Magdaleno Paternal Grandmother's Name: Petronila Cervantes Maternal Grandfather's Name: Jose Maria Magdaleno Maternal Grandmother's Name: Magdalena Belasquez Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60269-2 , System Origin: Mexico-VR , GS Film number: 1155173 , Reference ID: 2:VVHXL6

> From: auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 20:40:25 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction and information on Ysabel Macias
>
> Paige,
>
> Yes --- Bernabe and Gertrudis were the gggg-grandparents of my husband Antonio C. Garcia. Their daughter Maria Antonia Magdaleno married Yldefonso Joseph Gonzales. Their son Gregorio Gonzales married Maria Ramona Ornelas. Their daughter Antonia Gonzales married Estanislado de Jesus Garcia. Their son Simon Garcia married Marciana Cervantes. Their son Primitivo Garcia married Maria Hinojosa de Gutierrez. Their son Enrique Garcia married Maria de la Paz Acosta, and their son is my husband Antonio Carlos Garcia. Antonio and his father Enrique were born in El Paso, TX. Everybody else was born (in his paternal line) in Encarnacion.
>
> Did you find Bernabe's and Gertrudis' parents? I couldn't find them.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 18:52:13 -0800
> > From: herrerapaige77@gmail.com
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction and information on Ysabel Macias
> >
> > Emilie,
> >
> > Is your Bernabé Magdaleno married to Gertrudis Pérez?
> >
> > Paige
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>

Comment

Emilie,

I looked at your tree for a long time and tried to see if I connected but I
don't think my tree has enough to connect yet. I'll keep looking to see and
maybe I will soon. Maybe your Bernabe Magdaleno is related to my new
ancestor Simon Magdaleno.

Danny C. Alonso

Comment

Emilie,

I only have been looking at Nuestros Ranchos and Family Search, I didn't
know there was another place to look but if you have other places I can
look I will. My url has my tree at the bottom. That's as far as I've gone
except for the new people Armando and Chris gave me and I added parents for
Emiliano Alonso's wife Ysabel Cuellar. They are Cristobal Cuellar and
Refugia Alonso.

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/dcalonso

Danny C. Alonso

Comment

Danny,

You can view my trees on Nuestros Ranchos by going to Files, Members Genealogy Files, click on "G", then find my name Emilie Garcia. In there I have two trees, one for my husband and one for my father. Click on "Garcia-Cervantes Tree" to view my husband's family tree.

My husband Antonio Carlos Garcia was born in 1935 in El Paso, and his father Enrique Garcia was also born in El Paso, in 1909. His grandfather, Primitivo Garcia was born in Encarnacion. He came to El Paso with his parents Simon Garcia and Marciana Cervantes around 1895 from Encarnacion. I see your Manuel Alonso was born in El Paso. Maybe your Manuel Alonso (your grandfather?) knew Primitivo and Simon Garcia. They were merchants in El Paso, owned grocery stores, butcher shops, bakeries, vulcanizing shops, taxi companies, boarding houses. What a small world. Do you still have relatives in El Paso? My husband Tony only has one cousin left there, Adrian Garcia, who is in his 80s..

I will e-mail you privately if I find any connection, and you do likewise.

Glad to see you on Nuestros Ranchos. Oh, the other websites I use besides Nuestros Ranchos and Family Search are World Connect on Rootsweb (which is free), and Ancestry.com which is by subscription only. You can go to a Family Search library at your local Mormon stake church and use their computers. Some have several websites you can access for free. I also belong to many websites that have databases such as GenWeb, Genealogy.com, Fold3, MyHeritage, etc. I think you might be able to Google "genealogy databases". The people at the stake would probably give you the best information, since not all LDS members know what the volunteers at the stakes do unless they have done extensive research themselves.

Best regards,

Emilie

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 17:34:30 -0800
> From: dcalonso97@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction and information on Ysabel Macias
>
> Emilie,
>
> I only have been looking at Nuestros Ranchos and Family Search, I didn't
> know there was another place to look but if you have other places I can
> look I will. My url has my tree at the bottom. That's as far as I've gone
> except for the new people Armando and Chris gave me and I added parents for
> Emiliano Alonso's wife Ysabel Cuellar. They are Cristobal Cuellar and
> Refugia Alonso.
>
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/dcalonso
>
> Danny C. Alonso

Comment

Hi Danny,

No problem, and welcome to the group. I would make sure to always go to the website, it's definitely easier to follow. Plus, sometimes you won't receive all the emails. Yes, Josepha de Aguirre and Josepha Magdaleno are the same person. The naming practices in those times were different and as you get more familiar with the region you'll notice women would often use the name of their mother or grandmother. The following dispensa shows that Josepha Magdaleno is the daughter of Simón Magdaleno and Josefa Guzmán and that Simón Magdaleno is the son of Diego Magdaleno and Mariana de Aguirre:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18410-28762-7?cc=1874591&wc=…
 
And, this dispensa shows that Josefa Guzmán is the daughter of Melchor de Guzmán and Jacinta Gutiérrez Coronado:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18413-95547-28?cc=1874591&wc…

Christopher de Cuellar

Comment

Thank you for the information Chris. I was having trouble following all the
information. But, now I look on the website. I think I added everyone and
have it all but is Josepha de Aguirre is also Josepha Magdaleno and her
mother is Josepha Gusman and her father is Simon Magdaleno?

Danny C. Alonso

Comment

Danny,

What website have you been looking at? My husband shares most of the surnames from Encarnacion de Diaz (Macias, Rubalcaba, Aguirre, Magdaleno) you have mentioned, and I would like to see if somewhere there is a common ancestor. Do you have any Cervantes, Ornelas, Morones, or Garcia?

Thanks,

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 18:35:58 -0800
> From: dcalonso97@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction and information on Ysabel Macias
>
> Thank you for the information Chris. I was having trouble following all the
> information. But, now I look on the website. I think I added everyone and
> have it all but is Josepha de Aguirre is also Josepha Magdaleno and her
> mother is Josepha Gusman and her father is Simon Magdaleno?
>
> Danny C. Alonso

Comment

Danny,

You're welcome. Chris deserves a thank you also since he put us on the right track for the parents of Isabel Macias.

There are some of your ancestors that is didn't mention because some I don't have the documented proof and I ran out of time to look for the proof. They are most likely mentioned somewhere in this site but you still want to look for the proof if not contained in a post or a tree.

Armando

Comment

Hi Armando,
I agree, I think the age of Juan Antonio de Rubalcava is wrong on the IM. I have him as 34 years old at the time he married 20 year old Isabel Macías, based on this baptism with Pedro Alonso de los Hinojos as his padrino: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11662-70255-26?cc=1502404&…
I guess this Juan Antonio de Rubalcava could've died and they had another Juan Antonio de Rubalcava born some years later, but, certainly not as late as the IM suggests. For now, I'm using this one.
Chris

Comment

Hi Armando,
Thanks, I wanted to be sure. I think then that this is the baptism for the Isabel Macías that's married to Juan Antonio de Rubalcava:  https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11678-32285-58?cc=1502404&…
I just noticed her padrino is Juan Manuel de Trillo, and his son George de Trillo is the padrino of her son Guillermo de Rubalcava.
Chris

Comment

Yes, it sure does look like that is her. It also coincides with her given age of 20 in her IM of 1764.

The Trillo connection is interesting because Teresa de Trillo y Alonso de los Hinojos, a niece of Juan Manuel de Trillo y Villalpando, married Juan Joseph González de Rubalcava y Villalobos "originario y vezino de este partido en La Estanzuela" on 14 June 1744

Armando

Comment

Thank you for the information on my ancestors Armando. I didn't just want
information on Ysabel Maciases parents, I just didn't think I was allowed
to ask about more than one person. but I also needed information on Juan
Antonio De Robalcaba. Thank you. I didn't have any of the people you gave
me. Ysabel Macias and Juan Antonio De Robalcaba are the ancestors i have in
the 18th century. My other ancestors I havent traced outside of the 19th
century and 20th century.

Danny C. Alonso

Comment

Thanks to Christopher, now that we have the correct marriage record of the parents of Isabel Macias. The parents of Joseph Manuel Macias are mentioned as Juan Macías and Juan(a) Ernandez which are Juan Macías Valadez y Durán y Vega and Juana Gómez de Espejo married 12 June 1683 in Aguascalientes. Top left at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446-30252-70

The parent of Juan Macías Valadez were Joseph Macías Valadez and Catalina Vega per that marriage record. The parent of Joseph Macías Valadez were Alonso Macías Valadez and Maria Alvarez per the dispensa at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18413-52932-1

Alonso is proven to be a brother of Mateo per the dispensa at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18424-13454-3 and Mateo is proven to be a brother of Leonor per the dispensa at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18403-64617-2

His burial record of 27 Jan 1645 is at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446-30252-70 which states he died at his ranch La Labor de San Nicolás. He didn't have a will due to being poor.

The parents of Juana Gómez de Espejo were Juan Hernández and Ana Dominguez. The parents of Juan Hernández are supposedly Domingo Hernández Gamiño and Juana Gómez de Espejo but I can't find the proof of that.

The parents of Ana Dominguez were Pedro Alonso de los Hinojos and Ana Magdalena Domínguez per the following dispensas at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18378-21973-15 and https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18413-8431-26

Pedro Alonso de los Hinojos and Ana Magdalena Domínguez were married 3 May 1620 in Pinos, Zacatecas per GONZÁLEZ-LEAL, MARIANO. (2011). Retoños de España en La Nueva Galicia. Guadalajara: Gobierno de Jalisco and an LDS sheet by Mary Lou Montagna.

See also http://historiasyrecuerdosdeencarnaciondediaz.com/macias.html#num9 and http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/17433

Comment

Thank you sir for the additional ancestors. Is this the wedding of Ysabel
Macias's parents

Name:Joseph Manuel Macias
Spouse's
Name:Maria Josepha De Aguilar
Event Date:01 Oct 1762Event
Place:El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M60485-1

, System Origin: Mexico-ODM , GS Film number: 299828

My folder url http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/dcalonso

Danny C. Alonso

Comment

Hi Armando,
I need to know what you think about this theory. Juan Antonio de Rubalcava and Isabel Macias are my 7th Great Grandparents, through Guillermo de Rubalcava that married Andrea de Alba. And, admittedly they are one of my least researched ancestors because I haven't gotten to them yet, but I tentatively have the parents of Isabel Macias as Joseph Manuel Macias and Josepha de Aguirre/Magdaleno. The couple he put down Manuel Macias and Josepha de Aguilar married only two years before her supposed daughter. Plus, if you look at the IM for Juan Antonio de Rubalcava and Isabel Macias https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12379-10155-97?cc=1502404&… lists Isabel Macias' mother not as Aguilar, but as Josepha de Aguirre, which I believe she uses from her grandmother Mariana de Aguirre that married Diego Magdaleno.
Also, if you look at the the padrinos that baptized the children of Juan Antonio de Rubalcava and Isabel Macias, they are either Magdalenos or connected to the Magdalenos.
The Padrinos of my 6th Great Grandfather Guillermo de Rubalcava are George de Trillo and Guadalupe Macias, daughter of Josepha de Magdaleno and I believe sister to Isabel Macias: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11122-68406-55?cc=1502404&…
The Padrino of Joseph Raphael Magdaleno Rubalcava is Juan Clemente de Villalobos, the husband of Ignacia Macias, daughter of Josepha de Magdaleno and I believe sister to Isabel Macias: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12454-66503-25?cc=1502404&…
The Padrinos of Petra Rubalcava are Pioquinto de Villalobos and Margarita Macias, daughter of Josepha de Magdaleno and I believe sister to Isabel Macias: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11122-68429-48?cc=1502404&…;
This is the marriage of Joseph Manuel Macias and Josepha Magdaleno, they married 9 Nov 1733 in San Juan de los Lagos: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18565-20333-32?cc=1874591&wc…
I think the timeline fits better, but, I'm not by any means certain. Let me know what you think.
Christopher de Cuellar

Comment

Christopher,

The IM proves that I made a mistake in assuming the surname was Aguilar and not possibly another surname. Once I took a better look at the marriage record it actually only has Agui. I had started personal index of the Sam Juan de Los Lagos marriage records because they aren't indexed at FamilySearch but I had stopped before reaching that page. Even so I probably would never had made the connection with the Aguirre family. I do agree that the marriage record of Joseph Manuel Macias and Josepha de Magdaleno of 1733 are the parents of the wife Isabel (Ysabel) Macías especially since the marriage record explicitly states that Joseph Manuel Macias was from Aguascalientes.
The IM also states that Juan Antonio de Robalcaba is 17 years old meaning he was born in 1747. Men didn't normally marry that young and it would be impossible for him to be the son of the family I associated him with since that family started having children in 1713. That would mean the mother, María Villalobos y Escoto Tovar baptized 1694, had children from 1713 until 1747, until the mother was 53 or 54. I have never heard of a woman having children past 46 years old. I really think that the age was a mistake although there could have been another couple Miguel de Robalcaba and María de Villalobos. That's something that needs to be investigated more.

Armando

Comment

My husband's ancestors were related by marriage to the Macias, and his ancestors also included some Rubalcabas. They were all from Encarnacion de Diaz. Have you put your family tree in Nuestros Ranchos? See my trees under Emilie Garcia. My husband is Antonio Garcia

Congratulations on getting hooked on genealogy. It will be a lifelong hobby, and you will always love it.

Many of us wish we had started at your age, and wish we had interviewed all our eldest living relatives for more information before they took it to the grave. Get photos, stories, any documents they have.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2015 06:49:42 -0800
> From: dcalonso97@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction and information on Ysabel Macias
>
> Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum
>
> I'm Danny and I've been researching my family for about a month. It started
> as a school project but then I became really interested after it was over.
> My Spanish teacher that's LDS was helping me read the records. I'm not sure
> of the actual ranches that my familes ancestors are from, but they're
> mostly on records from the Encarnacion de Diaz section of Family Search.
> Ive traced my family to Ysabel Masias and Juan Antonio De Robalcaba married
> in El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico on May 27th 1764 but
> the record wasn't readable, even by my teacher. Thank you for letting me be
> in the forum and if the forum knows who Ysabel Masias's ancestors are
> please tell me.
>
> --
> Danny C. Alonso

Comment

Hello Danny,

It says -

"En la villa de Aguascalientes en veinte y siete
de Mayo de mi setecientos sesenta y cuatro
años habiendo precedido las diligencias
acostumbradas prevenidas por derecho
leído se las amonestaciones dispuestas por
el Santo Concilio de Trento en la Iglesia
Parroquial en tres días festivos inter
missarum solemnia que lo fueron el seis
trece y el quince del corriente mes y no
habiendo resultado de ellas impedimento
alguno como teniente de Br
Matías Joseph asistió al matrimonio
que en mi presencia por palabras
de presentes celebraron Juan Antonio de
Robalcaba español originario y vecino de
esta villa en La Estansuela hijo legítimo de
Miguel de Robalcaba difunto y de María
de Villalobos con Isabel Macías española
originaria y vecina de esta villa en La
Villita hija legitima de Joseph Manuel
Macías difunto y de María Josefa de Aguilar"

The rest is very hard to read.

I haven't found a marriage record for Miguel González de Rubalcava and María Villalobos y Escoto Tovar but the first baptism I can find for a child is for Juan Joseph González de Rubalcava y Villalobos 28 Aug 1713 so they should have married at least 10-12 months prior to that date. I don't think there is an información matrimonial for them but it would be good to double check.

María Villalobos y Escoto Tovar was baptized 28 Feb 1694 and was the daughter of Isidro de Villalobos Macías Valadez and Francisca Gertrudis Escoto y Tovar married befpre 1683 based on the following Dispensa 168024 -

Phelipe de Chavez, 30a hl de Pedro de Chavez+ y Catarina Jimenez con Teresa de Villalobos, 30a hl de Isidro de Villalobos+ y Gertrudis de Rublacava

Árbol
Antonia de Villalobos.......1...Isidro de Villalobos
Pedro de Chavez..............2...Isidro de Villalobos
Pto...................................3...Pta
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18415-73711-18

Isidro de Villalobos Macías Valadez was the son of Isidro de Villalobos Macías Valadez and María Vásquez de Retamosa married 22 May 1640 in Teocaltiche based on the following

Dispensa de 4o grado
Tronco Francisco de Villalobos cc María Macias
Diego Villalobos..................1...Mariana Villalobos
cc Ana Jimenez.........................cc Esteban de Chavez
Francisco Villalobos............2...Vicente de Chavez
cc Xaviera Velasco....................cc Isabel de Ulloa
Pioquinto de Villalobos........3...Rosalia de Chavez
cc Margarita Macias..................cc Joseph Manuel Lopez
Teresa de Villalobos, pta.....4...Miguel Ignacio Lopez, pto

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18401-10098-46

[Tronco Cristóbal de Villalobos..cc..María Pérez de Nava]
[Tomás de Villalobos .........1...Francisco de Villalobos]
Pedro de Villalobos.............2...Diego de Villalobos
Ignacio de Villalobos, pto....3...Catarina de Villalobos, pta

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18415-38179-52

[Tronco Cristóbal de Villalobos..cc..María Pérez de Nava]
Tomás de Villalobos .........1...Francisco de Villalobos
Nicolás de Villalobos........2...Antonia de Villalobos
Nicolás de Villalobos........3...Manuel de Chávez
Miguel de Villalobos........4.....Margarita de Chávez

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18415-73311-6

Francisco de Villalobos was baptized 31 July 1595 in Mexico City. He was the son of Cristóbal de Villalobos and María Pérez de Nava married 19 Oct 1594 in Mexico City.

Al margen
velados xpoval de villa
lovos i ma peres
En diez y nueve de Octubre de mill y quinientos y nobenta
y quatro años yo El bachiller Joan ugarte aviendose echo
las amonestaciones y de mas diligencias y con
madamiento del provisor y no ? de ni
gun ynpedimento despose y di la ben[roto]
nunpciales en esta iglesia a Xpoval [roto]
vz de esta ciudad y natural en la villa de [roto]
en los reynos de castilla hijo de mateo [roto]
vos y de bernardina Lan clares con [roto]
natural desta ciudad hija de Xpoval [roto]
madalena siendo testigos diego muñoz [roto]
? y franco blanco y andres [roto]

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-11174-910-34

María Vásquez de Retamosa was baptized 27 Jan 1620 in Aguascalientes. She was the daughter of Gaspar Macías Valadez and Mariana de Torres married 26 Mar 1612 in Aguascalientes.

En 6 de Março de 612 despose a Gaspar Macías y a Mariana de Torres en la estancia de Nicolás Ramirez de Las Peñuelas, siendo testigos Alonso Macias, y los melliços, y Nicolas Ramirez y lo firmé -- Gabriel Ordoñez

(22) Don Gaspar Macias-Valadez y Retamosa el 6 de marzo de 1612 se caso en la Estancia de Peñuelas con Doña Mariana de Torres y su hermano Felipe Macías-Valadez y Retamosa el 1 de julio de 1618 contrajo matrimonio con María de Torres. Las dos eran hijas de Don Nicolás Ramírez y de Polonia de Torres (González Leal Mariano, Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia, Esquema genealógico numero 4, "Hijos de Nicolás Ramírez y de Polonia de Torres, y familias que de ellos provienen", Tomo II, 1982; Capitulo Macías-Valadez, indito).

Don Gaspar Macías-Valadez y de Retamosa, logró consolidar varios sitios de tierra en la Cañada de los Charcos, que baja del Cerro de los Gallos, con las que formó la llamada "Hacienda de los Charcos". Su hermano Alonso Macías-Valadez y Retamosa, fungió como Alcalde de la Villa de Nuestra Señora de la Asunción de las Aguas calientes y adquirió tierras en la Estancia de "San Nicolás de la Estanzuela", en un arroyo pedregoso que baja al pie del Cerro de los Gallos.

22. La Estancia de las Peñuelas, que primero fue propiedad de Don Nicolás Ramírez, luego le fue mercedada el 28 de junio de 1634 a Pedro Alonso de los Hinojos y años más tarde el 28 de junio de 1694 a Don Nicolás Fernández de Palos. AHJ. Tierras y Aguas, Instrumentos de la Hacienda de Peñuelas. http://historiasyrecuerdosdeencarnaciondediaz.com/macias.html

Comment

María Pérez de Nava was the daughter of Cristóbal Pérez López and María Magdaleno Hernández married 19 Dec 1577

"En diez y nueve de diziembre de mill quinos y setenta y siete años El
bachiller Diego de Fuentes clerigo presbitero con my licencia desposo a
..Christoval Perez hijo de Hernan de Perez y de Maria Lopez su mujer
que es de Granatula [de Calatrava] jurisdiccion de Almagro Castia [Castilla] y Maria Magdalena
hija de Goncalo Magdalena y de Maria Hernández su mujer que es de esta
ciudad habiendo se...................en esta iglesia de la beracruz las
diligencias conforme a derecho ¿? Christoval Perez dio información
como era libre de matrimonyo como consta por el mandamiento.......Diego de Fuentes .
hallado presentes Diego de Baeça del ¿? Pedro ? ...Juan Go.
Hermosilla vecinos de Mexico"

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-11174-1223-17

Gonzalo Magdaleno and Maria Hernández were also the parents of Ana Rodríguez de Magdaleno who married Juan González de Hermosillo y Sánchez Parra born in Guadalcanal, the son of Gonzalo García de Hermosillo and Leonor Sánchez Parra who per the confirmación de oficio of 1607 of Francisco Hermosillo MEXICO,177,N.58 found at http://pares.mcu.es/ and brother of the first bishop of Durango (Nueva Vizcaya) Fray Gonzalo Hermosillo.

Juan González de Hermosillo y Sánchez Parra is also a witness for the marriage of Cristóbal Pérez López and María Magdaleno Hernández.

Juan González de Hermosillo y Sánchez Parra had their first child Leonor baptized 15 June 1559 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-9758-14029-44 so they should have been married at least 9 months prior and should have been born about at least 19 years prior to 15 June 1559 and is mentioned as being deceased 20 April 1606 but living 27 Jan 1597 so he died between those dates.

Per image 6 of the confirmación de oficio

"Gonzalo Rodríguez Magdaleno y María Hernández su mujer difuntos vecinos
fueron de esta ciudad naturales de la dicha villa de Guadalcanal
ii Ítem si saben los dichos Gonzalo Rodríguez Magdaleno y María Hernández su mujer fueron casados
y velados según orden de la santa madre iglesia y durante su
matrimonio hubieron por su hija legítima a la dicha Ana Rodríguez Magdaleno nacio
en esta ciudad de México y por tal su hija legitima"

This is a different family from that of the Juan González de Hermosillo of Los Altos de Jalisco.

Did something happen with NR emails?

Did something happen with the NR e-mail system? The font has become hard to read. I do not see this with other e-mails that I send or receive.

Perhaps a non-standard font is being used?

Comments

Comment

When I posted this message the following error message appeared:

recoverable fatal error: Object of class stdClass could not be converted to string in /home/lafamilia/nuestrosranchos.org/sites/all/modules/listhandler/listhandler.module on line 302.

George Fulton

Comment

The source of the problem is with the 2/10/15 (or 2/11/15) Windows Vista security update (KB3013455).

It is anticipated that Microsoft will correct this in the (hopefully) near future. Some sites have suggested uninstalling the update, but then the security vulnerability is back.

A temporary work-around is to zoom in (or enlarge) the screen font to improve readability.

George

Research Digest, Vol 109, Issue 6

En Saltillo, Este jueves proximo, mañana 12 de febrero, se inicia un Taller
de genealogía y Paleografia en la Universidad Autónoma de Coahuila,
Camporredondo, Instituto de Enseñanza Abierta.

What does C.M. mean?

Many thanks to all of you who replied to my question : Julieta, Emilie, and
Mario. I really appreciate the explanations.

General Digest, Vol 109, Issue 8

> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2015 19:55:17 -0800
> From: "pnettleship@lasenora.org"
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] General Dig

Comments

Comment

They are also supposed to change the subject of the email so it doesn't have "General Digest, Vol such and such"