Does anyone know who the parents were of Barthalomew de Luna - married to Tomasa de Olague? He died in 1716. Is he the son of Francisco Lopez de Luna and Maria de Tapia?
Can anyone tell me if they have found any more padrones for Juchipila?
In case you don't already have this, or someone else needs it, Rafael and Simona's son had a marriage dispensation
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9D4-3DB5?i=638&cc=193…
~ Andrea
Thank you, Andrea. I knew about this child and this marriage, but I had not seen this particular record. I guess I need to look through these records more. Maybe I will have some luck finding other children.
Sandra
I descend from Manuel Castañeda and Antonia de la Torre. I also show that they had 12 children, including the brothers you mention: Joseph Vicente Ferrer and Manuel. My direct line is their brother Pedro Antonio Gil Castañeda, so I didn't follow Vicente's line. I have connected with a couple of other members on this forum who are researching this same family.
Thank you for your reply. I do remember seeing the baptism record for Pedro Antonio. But I connected with someone on Ancestry that said she descends from Vicente and yet we are not a DNA match so now I'm worried I may not be on the right track. I'm pretty sure about my tree up to Rafael Castaneda/Simona Flores but not after that.
These possible brothers (Manuel and Vicente), and their families also show up in records in Teul, Tlaltenango, and Cuquio, Jalisco with references back to Teul
I don't have any information about Juchipila during this time frame, but this family does go back to Teul and Tlaltenango. My line is through Manuel's (m. Maria Antonio de la Torre) father's cousin Catalina de Vargas Castaneda (m. Agustin Flores de la Torre) They lived in Milpillas in Teul, though I strongly suspect Agustin was from Juchipila and another son of Lucas Flores de la Torre and Beatriz de Torres. I was looking up information on the town and found in Wikipedia of all places that the land was granted to Catalina's father or grandfather Pedro de Castaneda (m. Francisca Lopez Mercado or Gutierrez) 16 Jul 1688 which is right when Pedro and his brother Joseph - Manuel's grandfather m. Francisca Vela Castro or Vela y Rodas - started having kids there. I haven't found an actual document for this land grant yet though.
Thank you, Andrea. I am really hoping that I am on the right track with Vicente but even if I'm not, I'm sure we connect somewhere, and that is some interesting information. My dad's sister just did a dna test for me too (since my father passed before I could ask him to). I'm hoping it will help me connect to more people who can help point me in the right direction.
Hello,
I am asking for help translating this document from the Family Search Guadalajara Marriage dispensations. Microfilm 168605, Guadalajara Dispensas 1700-1705, Image 312, # 223.
Dear Virginia,
Nicolas Joseph de Escamilla who married Michaela de Lomeli was not married a second time to Maria Quiteria de Alfaro Perez. María Quiteria was his daughter-in-law only, and not his wife.
Rick A. Ricci
Finding and studying this record may help you find the parents of Nicolas Lomelin and Maria Renteria
Name Nicolas Lomelin Rrentenia
Gender Male
Christening Date 28 Aug 1699
Christening Place NUESTRA SENORA DE LA ASUNCION,JALOSTOTITLAN,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Nicolas De Lomelin
Mother's Name Ma. De Rrentenia
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NK9Y-TF8 : 10 February 2018), Nicolas Lomelin Rrentenia, 28 Aug 1699; citing NUESTRA SENORA DE LA ASUNCION,JALOSTOTITLAN,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 279,253.
Thanks, this information really helps.
Virginia
Your welcome Virginia,
Glad I could help,
Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci
Here is the marriage dispensation for Nicolas Jose Escamilla and Michaela Lomelin y Rentería:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6RSX-S6?i=568&cc=18745…
Nicolas Jose hijo de Gertrudis Flores y de padre no conocido
Micaela es hija de Nicolás Lomelin y María Rentería
Good luck in your research,
Rick A. Ricci
Virginia,
The NICOLAS ESCAMILLA on the record is from Aguascalientes. His parents are Juan de Escamilla and Margarita Gomez (both death). The bride is JUANA MARIA GONZALEZ resident of Guadalajara. She is the widow of Francisco de Arellanos. The document is just a testimony from several witnesses confirming that Francisco de Arellanos is death and was buried in the cathedral, 2 years before. the bride and the groom didn't have consanguineous relationship. I hope this helps
sus
Nicolas’s father, Juan Ruiz De Escamilla, passed away the year before. Here are his death and marriage records:
Marriage:
Juan Ruys De Escamilla
Spouse's Name Margarita Gomez
Event Date 12 Nov 1671
Event Place El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JHPT-7HW : 10 February 2018), Juan Ruys De Escamilla and Margarita Gomez, 12 Nov 1671; citing El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 299,823
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Juan Ruis de Escamilla
Event Type Death
Event Date 05 Mar 1701
Event Place Asunción de María, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico
Gender Male
Marital Status Married
Spouse's Name Margarita Gomes
Citing this Record
México, Aguascalientes, registros parroquiales, 1620-1962, database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N87L-RP8 : 11 March 2018), Juan Ruis de Escamilla, 05 Mar 1701; citing Death, Asunción de María, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico, parroquias Católicas, Aguascalientes (Catholic church parishes, Aguascalientes).
Juan Ruiz De Escamilla is the son of Juan Ruiz De Escamilla and Olaya De la Cruz Bermejo
Olaya is the daughter of Alonso Martin De Bermejo and Isabel Perez De Gardea
Isabel is the daughter of Martin Perez De Gardea and Mariana De Rubalcaba
Mariana is the daughter of Alonso De Rubalcaba Gonzalez and Beatriz Lopez De Fuenllana
Alonso is the son of Mateo De Rubalcaba and Juana María Gonzalez
Mateo is the son of Mateo Gonzalez De Rubalcaba and Luisa d’ Avila
Juana is the daughter of Ruy Gonzalez Suarez and Maria Francisca
Ruy is the son of Alonso Gonzalez and Catalina Suarez
Beatriz is the daughter of Juan Lopez De Fuenllana y Lopez and Isabel Santaella y del Castillo
Juan is the son of Diego Lopez De Fuenllana and Maria Lopez
Isabel is Francisco De Santaella and Beatriz del Castillo y Perez
Beatriz is the daughter of Cristobal del Castillo and Leonor Perez
Rick A. Ricci
Hola prim@s,
Manny,
Thank you so much for the records. I have a few questions:
1. Roque Cordero was the public notary in what area? Or if you did a will in Aguascalientes had to go thru the notary in Guadalajara?
2. On the same collection of microfilms I saw that there are the books from JUAN SEDANO and DE ORENDAIN with overlapping dates. Do you know if Juan Sedano covered specific area?Or everything is mixed?
I don't know anything about the 3 public notaries, and I want to start viewing the microfilms but I need some orientation first. Any info would be greatly appreciated
thanks
sus
Another document that mentions Gabriel Sanchez y Mendoza and his wife Isabel Sanchez de Lara. This document gives us important information by telling us that they are residents of Aguascalientes. I had been looking for them in Jalisco. Hopefully one Day we will find out if they left any descendants and who they are.
Thanks Manny,
Rick A Ricci
hi im starting to overlook my tree and get back to working on it.
Juana Cervantes is the mother of Jose Domingo Cervantes
There is information in their records, but they must be pieced together like a puzzle.
In the record of their daughter Maria Josefa she is identified as “India,...abuelos paternos y maternos no conocidos.”
In their marriage record María De los Nieves Terrones’s parents are identified as Antonio Terrones and Maria Josefa, but the grooms parents are not identified.
In the record of their daughter Maria Claudia she is identified as “Mulata libre,...abuelos paternos Juana Cervantes y maternos no se conocen por qué la madre fue expuesta.”
In another record María De los Nieves parents are identified as Jose Antonio Terrones and Maria Josefa Torres.
Something you might want to look into are the records of Jose Manuel Cayetano Cervantes and Maria De la Asensio de los Dolores Terrones. I believe that they may be closely related to Jose Domingo Cervantes and Maria De los Nieves Terrones.
Rick A. Ricci
hi rick after reading i had went back in my family tree area. in the case of alexander de jesus terrones and or maria de los delores ramirez they are my 7th great grandparents . marriage record was found in 1770 from cinega de mata mexico . i did also note that parents for him was pedro terrones and juana gertrudis martin. a baptismal record was searched for and found concerning pedro terrones who is my 8th great grandfather as follows:
Mexico, Select Baptisms, 1560-1950
View Record
Name Pedro Terrones Gonsales
Gender Male
Baptism Date 10 Jun 1701
Baptism Place Cienega DE Mata,Ojuelos,Jalisco,Mexico
Father Manuel Terrones
Mother Theresa Gonsales
FHL Film Number 640149
Household Members
Name Age
Pedro Terrones Gonsales
Theresa Gonsales
Manuel Terrones
so parents were shown to be as manuel terrones and theresa gonsales. now i will try to search for the other connecting dots as there is some areas of my tree that is not found as of yet. i will post the ones that arent found
Jose Domingo Servantes
Mexico Deaths
Name Jose Domingo Servantes
Gender Male
Burial Date 06 Aug 1798
Death Place Salvatierra, Guanajuato, Mexico
Marital Status Single
Father's Name Jose Maria Ramon
Mother's Name Juana Maria Rozalia Servantes had found this record and also a record regarding another possible marriage to him? had dna update last night on my dna test and it showed guanajuato as dna to me for a area of mexico, would like input on if this is my missing jose domingo cervantes? also in same area where cinega de mata is he is married to someone else as follows:Joseph Domingo Cervantes
Mexico Marriages, 1570-1950
marriage: 5 October 1774 Cienega De Mata, Ojuelos, Jalisco, Mexico
mother: Juana Cervantes
spouse: Maria Getrudis De Estrada
other: Pedro De Estrada, Getrudis De Loia i also seen mother juana listed as previously in other records and he couldnt have been born in 1780 and that date of birth i would have to change as his marriage to maria terrones was later on but would have to go back and look at records again of children to be certain. happy new years to all ===
Hola a todos and thank you for welcoming me into this group . My family roots are from the Tecolotlán/Autlán area and I will be very happy to learn from all of you.
Kindest regards,
Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
Im looking for the parents of my ancestors Juan Colunga an Isabel Mendez
probly from Valle de San Francisco, San Luis Potosí where their children
married.
Dear Danny,
It is important to check secondary sources before citing them as facts. Just because someone wrote something in a book stating that they have found the true line does not make it true. Many times It is hard to check other people's work but a good starting point is to check the dates. The proposed tree may sound true but just a check of the dates that you can find on some of the people in the tree will show that the tree is an impossibility. What sounds like a "good argument" will crumble when the birth dates make the tree impossible. There are exceptions like the Ruiz de Esparza tree which seemed impossible, but was only highly improbable, yet true, as I was able to use primary sources to prove that the majority of our concerned line between 1300's and the 1500's were born when their father was at a much older than average age.
Rick A. Ricci
Hola Danny:
Fui a la biblioteca a revisar los Partidos y Padrones del Obispado de Michoacán, sobre San Luis Potosí pero no encontré a nadie de la familia Colunga hacia 1680.
Pero en la sección de Notarías de ésta misma página existen antecedentes de la venta de la hacienda de Juan de Colunga, difunto, que se remató en el Puesto de San Diego, Valle de Huejucar, Jurisdicción de Juchipila hacia 1656.
Saludos
Marcelina
Marcelina,
Tienes más información sobre el "Puesto de San Diego" Debe ser la que hoy se le conoce como "La Hacienda de San Diego de la Labor" fue la hacienda con mayor extensión en esa zona. Fue adquirida por la familia de mi madre en 1828. No sabía que los Colunga Cortés tenían presencia en la zona de Huejúcar-Juchipila tan temprana en la colonial.
Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino
Hola Daniel:
Pues realmente no sabía que los Colunga hubieran estado en Juchipila, sino que buscando otra cosa encontré el registro notarial. Posteriormente busqué más información sobre la Hacienda pero no encontré gran cosa, ya que hay un libro sobre las Haciendas de Aguascalientes que incluye la región de Juchipila, pero se refiere al siglo XIX.
Saludos
Marcelina
Danny,
In case you don't have Francisco's baptism record:
Francisco de Colunga y Méndez baptized on 14 Oct 1682 in Charcas, SLP who married Agustina Robledo de Rutiaga. If I remember correctly these are your ancestors? Francisco Colunga was a younger brother to my ancestor, José who would have been baptized in 1681.
Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino
Thanks Daniel, I really appreciate it. I was curious I remember you mentioning that the Colunga Cortes descend from hernan Cortes. Do you know how they connect to Cortes?
On a the post at the bottom of this page I had written a response to quotes attributed to Esteban Mira Caballos. The problem is that I should have waited until I had read Esteban Mira Caballos's book addressing the issues that are brought up by his quotes. I should have waited patiently until I had his written words in front of me instead of relying on someone else quoting him as he does address some of the issues that I bring up. He was also inaccurately quoted at times.
Esteban Mira Caballos Ones mentions one of the Castro family branches that I have studied. He doesn't address them as a branch but as a group of individuals surnamed Casto. I had already put many of the names that he mentions into their place in a family tree. This family branch is the one found to be in the service of the Kings as bookkeepers, escribanos, and physicians. He had not connected these individuals.
I don't know if Esteban Mira Caballos is correct regarding Fernan Cortez's paternal ancestry but he does put up a convincing argument. There Is still the issue of Esteban Mira Caballos denying the very existence of the paternal grandmother in the traditional lineage when we know that the woman did exist and that she is Fernan Cortez's great aunt in the family tree that he claims. I believe that this is the biggest chink in the armor of his argument. It is not the only chink in the armor. His conclusion of where the Monroy comes from is a reach. I see where he gets the descent from Lope Cortez but Maria Cortez de la Cueva also descends from him and instead of erasing her from the family tree, his comments helped find her paternal ancestry by opening up the case on Fernando Cortez's ancestry.
Now that I have collected more pieces to the puzzle, and read Esteban Mira Caballos's book, I can put together a family tree bringing together a few branches of the Cortex family showing how many of the individuals surnamed Cortez that Esteban Mira Caballos mentions when speaking about many of the Cortezs that he found in his research.
Though I can put together a family tree based on his assertions and my pieces to the puzzle that extends to the 1200's, I am not totally convinced that we should throw out the traditional paternal ancestry of Fernan Cortez. I need to do more research to see if I share his same conclusions. In the meantime, I will have both family trees in my records.
Rick A. Ricci
Pppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppprevious. Posttttttttttttttttttt
XxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxXxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Previous post based on someone else quoting Esteban Mira Caballos.
Vvvvvv vv vv v v v
Martin Cortez y Monroy's parents?
Submitted by R.A.Ricci on Mon, 2017-02-13 09:09.
Dear Danny,
I have read what others have written quoting him and not his book. I don't know if the quotes are accurate so I should wait to read Esteban Mira Caballos's book first before commenting. I should wait, but I will go on a limb and respond as if these quotes are accurate. The story showing the descent from Gilgo Cortesio to Lope Cortez is weak as Lope could not have been his son as there are many centuries between them and there are many missing generations. Lope is a strong beginning point for many people working on their Cortez genealogy but the problem is that there are most likely more than one Lope as there are different trees constructed from Lope. The tree that he uses does not include a "son" of Lope that i actually found information on . This son has many children and descendants that actually are in the service of the Kings of Castilla after King Ferdinand and Queen Isabel pass away. These Cortezs were receiving benefits from the Kings when Cortez was being ignored in his last days. Besides the Cortez Monroy branch you also have a Cortez del Rey Branch that also claims descendancy from Lope Cortez
Esteban Mira Caballos Is quoted as writing that the supposed father Fernando Monroy only had one son named Rodrigo Monroy so he couldn't be the father of Martin Cortez y Monroy, but his argument is off here as Rodrigo/(Ruy) Monroy is the supposed father Of Martin Cortez Monroy. Why is he arguing that Fernando Monroy is not the father? Why? Why isn't he arguing that Rodrigo Monroy isn't the father.
Esteban Mira Caballos Is also quoted as writing that Maria Cortez de la Cueva and her parents did not exist and that someone made them up. They did exist and there is evidence that they exist so why is he attacking their existence?i
In the Fernando Cortez ancestry that I learned as a teenager the paternal grandparents weren't married. So if the given ancestry all ready addresses the point that Martin Cortez's parents aren't married when he is born then why argue that he couldn't be of this family as there is no record of a marriage? So I ask again, why is Esteban Mira Caballos quoted saying this is proof that Martin comes from a different family.
Esteban Mira Caballos Is quoted as saying that Maria Cortez de la Cueva did not exist but the person quoting him has her listed in the family tree as a great aunt of Martin Cortez.
The Cortez /Cortesio family is supposedly Italian that immigrated to what was the border at the Pyrenhees but this immigration happened many centuries before we find people putting together a family tree on the Cortez's. The story on this surname is so long that it predates the way surnames were used at the base of the Pyrenees. The surnames used here were usually geographical names.
Esteban Mira Caballos Does not address the issue that most family members are involved in careers that involve much education and that a high percentage of them doctors, bookkeepers, and escribanos which are jobs often taken by Jews. Many family trees were intentionally changed to hide the fact that there was a strong Jewish lineage in their family tree,
Esteban Mira Caballos Does an excellent job in explaining Fernan Cortez's Pizarro ancestry through his maternal side, the Pizarro/Hinojosos. Esteban Mira Caballos Explains how his supposed second cousin Pizarro was actually his second cousin once removed as it was his mother that is the second cousin to Conquistador Pizarro. He does not show it, but I have the ancestry of this line going back to King Henry Ii and Queen Eleonore of England.
Esteban Mira Caballos May have discoverered the correct lineage on Fernan Cortez but all the red flags that I see flying back and forth are making me reserve judgement until I see the actual evidence.
I believe that Esteban Mira Caballos may be on the right track but I had originally believed Guillermo Tovar de Teresa when he came up with a different Romo Rangel ancestry. Guillermo Tovar de Teresa said he had proof of his assertions but he never presented them and I am still waiting for someone to come up with proof of the real Romo Rangel tree. I believe that Esteban Mira Caballos's clarification of The Pizzaro tree was equally as important as straightening out Fernan Cortez's paternal line. Besides the Pizarro cleanup, I feel that finding out that he always signed his first name with an F was interesting.
I have also learned a lot about the Cortez family tree but feel that although I have collected many pieces, I have not Collected enough information yet to get a clear picture of how the different branches are related. I do have a few branches mapped out.
Rick A. Ricci
Mr. Ricci,
thank you for providing this information and clearing up any confusion about Esteban Mira Caballos work. i have cited him as a reference and relied on his work even though it's a secondary source it seemed very well researched. so, im glad that you think he makes a good argument.
Danny C. Alonso
Dear Danny,
I am sorry that I said "good argument." There is and should be some confusion as there are "chinks in the armor". I can't find any information on Nuno Cortez señor de Molina. And Maria Cortez de Cueva did exist and was part of the family tree that he is saying that Fernan Cortez is from. There is a strong possibility that the line he was attempting to throw shade at he actually built up. I wish that I could see "all the pieces" that he has in front of him and I wish he had the pieces that I have in front of me so he could change part of his arguement. I should argue the strengths of the other argument so that you can see that both trees should be cited. I should explain what parts we know for sure, and what parts come from secondary sources.
We know who Lope Cortez descends from and he shares some of the same ancestors as Rodrigo Fernandez Monroy. We also have information on some of the Cortez branches that spread out and are considerered his cousins (not first). I have created three branches of these cousins as each branch descends from Lope. But one of the branches that has primary sources and is very solid is not listed as a son of Lope by "people in Esteban Mira Caballos's camp."
There are too many red flags to just accept it as if he had primary sources. I believe that instead of dismantling the Fernandez/Cortez de la Cueva argument, he has added fuel to the fire by providing an opposing argument that it is Rodrigo Fernandez Monroy's father who had an outside of marriage relationship with Maria Cortez Cueva, and that there is an added generation that he has provided which explains all the added pieces.
We have many pieces, both Esteban Mira Caballos and I, but I think he is missing some of my pieces, and I am missing some of his pieces. We need to bring out all the pieces to light to bring about the "good argument." We need to clean up the generations between Lope Cortez and Martin Cortez.
Rick A. Ricci
Danny C. Alonso and Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino have brought me more research projects with the Colunga Mendez and Fernan Cortez de Monroy ancestries.
I became interested in this family after Danny C Alonso asked for information on them. Marcelina, Paige, Simona, Chris, and Daniel (Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino) added more information that threw me deep into researching these lines. I eagerly await Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino's book since his comments lead me to believe that these lines connect with other lines that I have been studying over the years.
The person that we often call Conquistador Hernan Cortez signed his name Fernan(do) and not Hernan. Yes he was also known as Fernando, Hernando, and Hernan as the "F" and the "H" were interchangeable in that century.
Esteban Mira Caballos has made errors in the genealogy that he presents on Cortez's ancestral line. The source that he cites has errors. I believe that many of these errors are because generations are skipped in both the tree that he presents and the traditional tree. Maria Cortez and her husband did exist, contrary to his statement. The traditional tree shows her as Fernan Cortez's grandmother while Esteban Mira Caballos presents her relative as his ancestor. Both lines show Fernan Cortez's descending from the Italian family Cortesio that had immigrated to the border of France and what we now call Spain. Esteban Mira Caballos does provide some information on the people in the tree, but more research is needed to take into account all the pieces of the puzzle. Additionally Fernan Cortez's parents are distantly related as the mother descends from some of the same ancestral lines in question.
The family from Holland that claimed a blood relationship to Cortez are correct as there was a family member in Cortez's family tree that fits the description of their ancestor. However some members of this Dutch family claimed direct descent from Fernan Cortez and this is not true as their ancestor is a great uncle of Fernan Cortez in both the traditional family tree and the one provided by Esteban Mira Caballos.
Mr. Ricci,
can you tell us which part of Esteban Mira Caballos theory is wrong and do you have the correct ancestors that you can tell us
Danny C. Alonso
Dear Danny,
I have read what others have written quoting him and not his book. I don't know if the quotes are accurate so I should wait to read Esteban Mira Caballos's book first before commenting. I should wait, but I will go on a limb and respond as if these quotes are accurate. The story showing the descent from Gilgo Cortesio to Lope Cortez is weak as Lope could not have been his son as there are many centuries between them and there are many missing generations. Lope is a strong beginning point for many people working on their Cortez genealogy but the problem is that there are most likely more than one Lope as there are different trees constructed from Lope. The tree that he uses does not include a "son" of Lope that i actually found information on . This son has many children and descendants that actually are in the service of the Kings of Castilla after King Ferdinand and Queen Isabel pass away. These Cortezs were receiving benefits from the Kings when Cortez was being ignored in his last days. Besides the Cortez Monroy branch you also have a Cortez del Rey Branch that also claims descendancy from Lope Cortez
Esteban Mira Caballos Is quoted as writing that the supposed father Fernando Monroy only had one son named Rodrigo Monroy so he couldn't be the father of Martin Cortez y Monroy, but his argument is off here as Rodrigo/(Ruy) Monroy is the supposed father Of Martin Cortez Monroy. Why is he arguing that Fernando Monroy is not the father? Why? Why isn't he arguing that Rodrigo Monroy isn't the father.
Esteban Mira Caballos Is also quoted as writing that Maria Cortez de la Cueva and her parents did not exist and that someone made them up. They did exist and there is evidence that they exist so why is he attacking their existence?
In the Fernando Cortez ancestry that I learned as a teenager the paternal grandparents weren't married. So if the given ancestry all ready addresses the point that Martin Cortez's parents aren't married when he is born then why argue that he couldn't be of this family as there is no record of a marriage? So I ask again, why is Esteban Mira Caballos quoted saying this is proof that Martin comes from a different family.
Esteban Mira Caballos Is quoted as saying that Maria Cortez de la Cueva did not exist but the person quoting him has her listed in the family tree as a great aunt of Martin Cortez.
The Cortez /Cortesio family is supposedly Italian that immigrated to what was the border at the Pyrenhees but this immigration happened many centuries before we find people putting together a family tree on the Cortez's. The story on this surname is so long that it predates the way surnames were used at the base of the Pyrenees. The surnames used here were usually geographical names.
Esteban Mira Caballos Does not address the issue that most family members are involved in careers that involve much education and that a high percentage of them doctors, bookkeepers, and escribanos which are jobs often taken by Jews. Many family trees were intentionally changed to hide the fact that there was a strong Jewish lineage in their family tree,
Esteban Mira Caballos Does an excellent job in explaining Fernan Cortez's Pizarro ancestry through his maternal side, the Pizarro/Hinojosos. Esteban Mira Caballos Explains how his supposed second cousin Pizarro was actually his second cousin once removed as it was his mother that is the second cousin to Conquistador Pizarro. He does not show it, but I have the ancestry of this line going back to King Henry Ii and Queen Eleonore of England.
Esteban Mira Caballos May have discoverered the correct lineage on Fernan Cortez but all the red flags that I see flying back and forth are making me reserve judgement until I see the actual evidence.
I believe that Esteban Mira Caballos may be on the right track but I had originally believed Guillermo Tovar de Teresa when he came up with a different Romo Rangel ancestry. Guillermo Tovar de Teresa said he had proof of his assertions but he never presented them and I am still waiting for someone to come up with proof of the real Romo Rangel tree. I believe that Esteban Mira Caballos's clarification of The Pizzaro tree was equally as important as straightening out Fernan Cortez's paternal line. Besides the Pizarro cleanup, I feel that finding out that he always signed his first name with an F was interesting.
I have also learned a lot about the Cortez family tree but feel that although I have collected many pieces, I have not Collected enough information yet to get a clear picture of how the different branches are related. I do have a few branches mapped out.
Rick A. Ricci
I don't know if you had time to review the book "Historia de la Casa (different royals houses and their trees are included) by Don Luis de Salazar y Castro Ano M.DC.XCVI.
M=1000, DC=600, XC=90, and VI=6 (1696) the link is in the middle of this conversation with Danny. It is 700+ pages, I believe I saw Casa de Molina in this book.
Danny, on p179 is the small and dramatic story of Dona Margarita, Senora de Ledesma. The translation of part of the story can be found in NuestrosRanchos. Later I read a little more of her calamities as a beautiful widow with great property and how she was stolen by a guy named Nunez, who had plans to kill her but her beauty mesmerized him and instead said they could run away together through a back stairway before the others came. An old fellow challenged him to a duel to try and save her so he Nuno put her down and killed the anciano, when he tried to pick her up again, she grabbed his dagger. he was gravely wounded.
The author states that in another book they go more into the story of Infante D. Sancho. So I'll look and see if it available on google.
Hi Simona,
i tried to read it but my Spanish is still not that good. and the writing
is difficult for me to read. its written in a strange writing. but, i
really was just tryin to see what the connection is between them and our
inez de Paz.
Danny C. Alonso
On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 9:39 AM, wrote:
> I don't know if you had time to review the book "Historia de la Casa
> (different royals houses and their trees are included) by Don Luis de
> Salazar
> y Castro Ano M.DC.XCVI. M=1000, DC=600, XC=90, and VI=6 (1696) the link is
> in
> the middle of this conversation with Danny. It is 700+ pages, I believe I
> saw
> Casa de Molina in this book. Danny, on p179 is the small and dramatic story
> of Dona Margarita, Senora de Ledesma. The translation of part of the story
> can be found in NuestrosRanchos. Later I read a little more of her
> calamities
> as a beautiful widow with great property and how she was stolen by a guy
> named Nunez, who had plans to kill her but her beauty mesmerized him and
> instead said they could run away together through a back stairway before
> the
> others came. An old fellow challenged him to a duel to try and save her so
> he
> Nuno put her down and killed the anciano, when he tried to pick her up
> again,
> she grabbed his dagger. he was gravely wounded. The author states that in
> another book they go more into the story of Infante D. Sancho. So I'll look
> and see if it available on google.
>
Both stories (shorten, my Spanish not the great as well) have been translated and Dona Juana the mother of Don Pedro Perez child of Infante Don Sancho del Castilla (de la Paz)
In another post, the story of Dona Juana and in the Files of Nuestro Ranchos is Margaritas.
Thank you Simona for translating them. I will read them now.
Danny C. Alonso
On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 10:24 AM wrote:
> Both stories (shorten, my Spanish not the great as well) have been
> translated
> and Dona Juana the mother of Don Pedro Perez child of Infante Don Sancho
> del
> Castilla (de la Paz) In another post, the story of Dona Juana and in the
> Files of Nuestro Ranchos is Margaritas.
>
Dear Danny,
I had not previously studied Juan Colunga and Isabel Mendoza since I don't have them as ancestors. The information that I provided was information that I collected after you asked for help. The information that I posted, plus the information that others have contributed to this thread, connects to A common ancestor of the De La. Torre Ledesma family. I have not posted my results on the De la Torre Ledesma ancestry, but it will be in a book that I am writing. I still need to verify the information that others have posted on this thread.
Rick A. Ricci
My information and the rest of the documents I plan to publish on the Torres y Rivera, Paz y Monroy, Anso Téllez are all verified.
Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino
While the information presented is only one path, I'm sure there are others, one of which you have found.
I look forward to your published book as it would be very valuable to me and many others. I hope it will be soon as my uncle will be 96 this November, I would love to present him with his ancestry. Do you have information on the Rivas?
Thank you for your dedication. Simona
Dear Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino,
I look forward to your book. Until these past couple of weeks, I had not studied this branch of the family. it is great to find another connection between the 16th century immigrants.
Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci
Hola a todos:
Hay información de que Inés de Paz fue heredera tanto de Pedro de Paz como de su tío Francisco Nuñez, relator del Consejo de Indias, en el Portal Pares, para quien intente profundizar más.
Hola Simona:
Si puedes hacer ahora la genealogía podría ser mejor que se la fueras dando a tu tío en episodios en lugar de esperar hasta noviembre pues ya es muy mayor y es demasiada información.
Yo tengo unas tías mayores y les he dado resúmenes de cada rama de la familia y están encantadas.
Saludos
Marcelina
Marcelina, gracias por la informacion pero no se nada de Pares, pero lo intente y puse "Ines de Paz" "Pedro de Paz" y "Francisco Nunez" y mucho de varios nombres de Paz pero no lo que buscaba. Asi que tambien busque "Francisco Nunez relator del Consejo de Indias" y me salio su testimonio de Fraude de Hernan Cortes. Todo fue en busqueda sencillo. Que no hice bien? Gracias.
Tienes razon sobre mi Tio y eso tome encuenta y por eso quiero juntar lo que puede sin duda nincuna sobre los ancestors y se lo doy en medianos de April a todos los hijos asi ellos se lo puende decir y platicar con el cuantas veces que el quiera.
But if Ines Gomez de Paz is the illegitimate daughter of Martin Cortes and it was Martin Cortes that was the one that marries the Monroy then am I missing something?
Ashlynn
Hi Ashlynn,
I do agree that Inés Gómez de Paz is the daughter of Martín Cortés el Viejo and half sister of Martín Cortés de Monroy and therefore could not be a descendant of the Monroy, so, the only other possibility is for Juana de Torres Rivera y Paz Cortés de Monroy, in addition to descending from Inés Gómez de Paz, through her mother, also descends from the Cortés de Monroy through her father, Juan de Torres.
Chris
while going through the marriages of Sagrario, San Luis Potosi, I found a marriage of Joan Miguel Calderon, Mercader de Espana con Dona Juana de Adrianzen (Juana Morales) b. 1609 in Mexico City, hija de Anna de Adrianzen y Jorge Morales.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9GLC-9YS
I can only guess that Anna is sister to Isabel and came to San Luis Potosi, after her husband passed.
Hola Simone:
Puedes consultar el Portal Pares yendo a búsqueda avanzada, poner por ejemplo Ines Paz Nueva España, elegir el periodo de tiempo entre 1500 y 1649, luego elegir entre los Archivo Archivo General de Indias. Y así te abre un menú con diferentes archivos en los que puedes buscar.
Mejor sería que le escribieras cartas a tu tío cada mes porque a veces los hijos no valoran tanto la información como los mayores, así la guardaría y podría leerla cuantas veces quiera. Crearías algo de suspenso como en aquellas novelas por entregas.
Saludos
Marcelina
I just uploaded to the files a semi translation of the history of Don Pedro Perez y the story of Dona Juana Senora de Ledesma casada con Infante D. Sancho del Castilla (de Paz). If those who are more knowlegeable in translating who view the translation could add corrections i would be most appreciative. The Spanish version is included. at the end it mentions Mr. Salazar and I did not understand what he meant at the end. I looked it up and his book is available as a download see the following title.
HISTORIA GENEALOGICA
DE LA CASA
DE LARA,
JUSTIFICADA
CON INSTRUMENTAS, Y ESCRITORES
DE INVIOLABLE FE.
fOR DON LVIS DE SALAZAR T CASTRO^
Comendaderde Zurita , y Fiscalde la Orden de Ca/airava ydela
Camarade S. M.y /uCoronistaMayor.
DIVIDIDA EN XX. LIBROS.
Simona,
i cant find it. do you have the link
Danny C. Alonso
Simona,
my spanish isnt that good, does the book say how they connect to our Paz family
Danny C. Alonso
the narrator of part of the story of Dona Juana Senora de Ledesma (see download in Nuestrosranchos) is the same as the author of this book in the very end he states that he is related to the the deceased person with the Epitaph leaving its readers with the doubt that Don Pedro Perez was the legitimate son of Infante D. Sancho del Castilla. I have not read the book yet sidetracked with other projects. I will try to make out what the epitaph means and relates to de Paz. Perhaps someone who can better understand this like Mr. Rick could explain.
Oh, and special thanks to Marcelina for showing us the way to this document. Gracias Marcelina.
Sarrod77 (I did not catch your name),
'
In the book Diccionario biográfico de antiguos pobladores de San Luis Potosí 1592-1666 /, Rafael Morales Bocardo, (San Luis Potosí, S.L.P., México : H. Ayuntamiento, San Luis Potosí, 2012-2015 : Archivo Histórico del Estado, San Luis Potosí : El Colegio de San Luis, 2014.), pgs. 10, 11, 441." It mentions Da. Isabel Adriansen (castillianzied to Da. Isabel de Adrián) and her brother, D. Pedro de Adriansen, Comerciante en el Cerro de San Pedro, San Luis Potosí as children of D. Cornelio (Cornelius) Adriansen (de Adrián) and his wife Da. Juana Xureda, the couple were residents in Sanlúcar de Barrameda in Cádiz, Andalucía, D. Cornelio was born in Bruges, Fladers, Belgium (as they were under Spanish dominion).
This Da. Ana de Adriansen you located, could be another daughter of D. Cornelio and Da. Juana Xureda, or a daughter of D. Pedro de Adriansen, I will look into this and report what I find.
Thank you for the record and sharing it with us.
Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino
When I say Cornelio and María were residents in Sanlúcar, I mean they were at one point living there and traveled to the New World where they made their way to San Luis Potosí, their family becoming an early family.
Daniel MdTC
Da. Juana de Adriansen was baptized on 31 Dec 1609 in the Cathedral of México
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-65BF-K6?i=628&wc=3PX8-168%…
She was the daughter--as her marriage record to D. Juan Miguel Calderón states--of D. Jorge de Morales and Da. Juana de Adriansen.
I have also begun to analyze how the Adriansen name was passed down. We have:
I. Da. Juana de Adriansen (daughter) of
II. Da. Juana de Adriansen (she is either the daughter of D. Pedro de Adriansen y Xureda, Comerciante in the Cerro de S. Pedro or a sister of this D. Pedro
III. Da. Isabel de Adriansen, daughter of D. Cornelio y Da. Juana, sister to D. Pedro, and spouse of D. François de Rutiaga Mester, owner of the Hacienda de los Bledos and silver mongul of San Luis Potosí, he died between 30 May 1627 and 19 Mar 1633, possibly in Villa de Reyes, SLP. Both of their daughters (IV and V) used Adriansen:
IV. Da. Antonia de Adriansen spouse of D. Pedro Pérez de Sardaneta y Legaspi, another silver mongul in SLP, miner by profession and owner of the Palace of Sardaneta in Arenaza, Vizcaya. Da. Antonia used Adriansen in the baptismal record of their daughter Da. Francisca on 16 Nov 1644 in Pozos, SLP. D. Pedro and Da. Antonia are direct ancestors of the House of the Marquis of San Juan de Rayas. It is presumed (opinion) that three silver estates of Sardaneta, Adriansen and Rutiaga entered the house of Sardaneta thus favoring the King to grant the Marquisate of San Juan de Rayas to the family for financing certain royal projects, construction of temples, etc and the fact the satus and influence of the family kept expanding rapidly.
V. Da. María de Adriansen baptized 18 Mar 1619 (a link to her record precedes a couple of posts) spouse of D. Benito Martín de la Orta, Comerciante (I believe he was a penínsular, not proven yet) Da. María used Adriansen in the baptism record of their son D. José Martín de la Orta y Rutiaga on 16 Nov 1644 in Pozos, SLP. This line married into the Colunga Cortés family and are ancestors of Danny Alonso here in the group. I descend from Danny's ancestor (D. Francisco de Colunga Cortés y Méndez Páez's brother) D. José de Colunga Cortés.
Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino
Daniel,
This is great stuff. i've been looking for the marriage of Benito martin de
la Orta but haven't found it. do you know if they married in San Luis
Potosi or do you happen to have a link to their marriage.
Danny C. Alonso
On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 10:57 PM, wrote:
> Da. Juana de Adriansen was baptized on 31 Dec 1609 in the Cathedral of
> México
> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-65BF-K6?i=628&w
> c=3PX8-168%3A122580201%2C125502002&cc=1615259
> She was the daughter--as her marriage record to D. Juan Miguel Calderón
> states--of D. Jorge de Morales and Da. Juana de Adriansen. I have also
> begun
> to analyze how the Adriansen name was passed down. We have: I. Da. Juana de
> Adriansen (daughter) of II. Da. Juana de Adriansen (she is either the
> daughter of D. Pedro de Adriansen y Xureda, Comerciante in the Cerro de S.
> Pedro or a sister of this D. Pedro III. Da. Isabel de Adriansen, daughter
> of
> D. Cornelio y Da. Juana, sister to D. Pedro, and spouse of D. François de
> Rutiaga Mester, owner of the Hacienda de los Bledos and silver mongul of
> San
> Luis Potosí, he died between 30 May 1627 and 19 Mar 1633, possibly in Villa
> de Reyes, SLP. Both of their daughters (IV and V) used Adriansen: IV. Da.
> Antonia de Adriansen spouse of D. Pedro Pérez de Sardaneta y Legaspi,
> another silver mongul in SLP, miner by profession and owner of the Palace
> of
> Sardaneta in Arenaza, Vizcaya. Da. Antonia used Adriansen in the baptismal
> record of their daughter Da. Francisca on 16 Nov 1644 in Pozos, SLP. D.
> Pedro
> and Da. Antonia are direct ancestors of the House of the Marquis of San
> Juan
> de Rayas. It is presumed (opinion) that three silver estates of Sardaneta,
> Adriansen and Rutiaga entered the house of Sardaneta thus favoring the King
> to grant the Marquisate of San Juan de Rayas to the family for financing
> certain royal projects, construction of temples, etc and the fact the satus
> and influence of the family kept expanding rapidly. V. Da. María de
> Adriansen baptized 18 Mar 1619 (a link to her record precedes a couple of
> posts) spouse of D. Benito Martín de la Orta, Comerciante (I believe he was
> a penínsular, not proven yet) Da. María used Adriansen in the baptism
> record of their son D. José Martín de la Orta y Rutiaga on 16 Nov 1644 in
> Pozos, SLP. This line married into the Colunga Cortés family and are
> ancestors of Danny Alonso here in the group. I descend from Danny's
> ancestor
> (D. Francisco de Colunga Cortés y Méndez Páez's brother) D. José de
> Colunga Cortés. Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino
>
>
Mr. Ricci
i missed your post in betwen all the responses. how do the colunga family connec to the de la torre ledesma family.
Danny C. Alonso
Danny,
These are my ancestors, thru my great grandmother, Da. Sara de Camino y Vázquez García-Rojas. D. José Antonio de Chávez Fragoso y Rivas married Da. Dolores de Coluna Cortés y Meléndez on 12 Feb 1748 in Villa de Reyes, SLP. He was the son of D. Alejandro de Chávez Fragoso y Da. Paula de Rivas Lozano and D. José de Colunga Cortés and Da. Francisca Meléndez, respectively.
D. Dolores de Colunga Cortés was baptized on 13 Apr 1731 in Villa de Reyes where her parents married on 15 Aug 1730. D. José de Colunga was baptized 13 Jan 1673 legitimate son of D. Juan de Colunga Cortés (III) and Da. Isabel Méndez Páez--I have not located a marriage record for Juan and Isabel. However, I can affirm D. Juan de Colunga marrying to his first wife Da. Josefa González on 3 Feb 1668 in the parish of Aguascalientes. He was the legitimate son of D. Juan de Colunga Cortés (II) "el mozo" to differentiate him from his father and Da. Gabriela de Anso Téllez y Torres de Rivera who were married on 19 Mar 1634 in Aguascalientes.
It is known that Da. Gabriela was the daughter of a wealthy comerciante (per the several financial records I have), D. Esteban de Anso y Téllez, a native of Mexico City and resident of Zacatecas and his wife, Da. Juana de Torres Rivera y Paz Cortés de Monroy, sister of the parish priest of Aguascalientes, el Bachiller D. Diego de Torres y Rivera whose will is in my possession. The Torres y Rivera family is very interesting as they held the Mayorazgos de Torres y Rivera in their own right and the Mayorazgo de Paz after the extinction of the male line of the Bribiesca-Vasconcellos it passed into the Torres y Rivera.
How do you connect to the Colunga Cortés?
Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino
Daniel,
Thank you for this information. I connect to Juan de Colunga Cortés through my 8x great grandfather Francisco de Colunga that married Agustina Rosa de Robledo in 1708 in San Luis Potosí:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9GG9-KMR
On Juana de Torres Rivera y Paz Cortés de Monroy, where does the Cortés de Monroy come from?
Danny C. Alonso
mendezdetorres,
Great information on my 8th grandparents (Juan and Gabriela). Melendes, Rivas, Robledo Rutiaga seem to marry each other frequently among others. how did you know which juan de colunga was married to whom? The first Colunga is born in 1636 and I added him to Ysavel Mendes as I had not found Joan Colunga Anso until after I had merged records for Juan and Ysavel. Because the marriage record states JOAN Colunga married to Josepha Gonzales I thought it was a first marriage for both brothers until I found the marriage record but not the IM for Joseph Colunga
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9GGS-Z2
Joseph married to Francisca de la Cruz Melendez, seems to have a big age difference either between his wife or he was born past the age of Ysavel Mendez.
Hi,
I'm also following the line of Juan de Colunga and Isabel Mendez. I was reading the whole explanation about 2 juan's de colunga. I looked at the marriage of Juan de Colunga and Josepha Gonzalez on feb 3, 1668 in aguascalientes. The marriage says that both were "indios". I'm assuming that THIS juan de Colunga was someone that "worked" with the father or lived in the household and adopted the last name.
In the census of Aguascalientes in 1648 there is just (1) juan de Colunga (nino) living with his parents Juan de Colunga cortes and Graviela de Anso y telles su mujer.
I'm assuming that Juan de Colunga (nino) later married Isabel Mendez (I haven't found the marriage)
Also I noticed that Gabriela de Anso left a will. Does anyone have her will?
Thanks
susana
Hi,
I'm also following the line of Juan de Colunga and Isabel Mendez. I was reading the whole explanation about 2 juan's de colunga. I looked at the marriage of Juan de Colunga and Josepha Gonzalez on feb 3, 1668 in aguascalientes. The marriage says that both were "indios". I'm assuming that THIS juan de Colunga was someone that "worked" with the father or lived in the household and adopted the last name.
In the census of Aguascalientes in 1648 there is just (1) juan de Colunga (nino) living with his parents Juan de Colunga cortes and Graviela de Anso y telles su mujer.
I'm assuming that Juan de Colunga (nino) later married Isabel Mendez (I haven't found the marriage)
Also I noticed that Gabriela de Anso left a will. Does anyone have her will?
Thanks
susana
Danny,
Good job on linking your Francisco de Colunga Cortés to the family tree, looking at the genealogy your lines suggests, your Andrea de Rutiaga y Orta is probably an aunt or another close relative of D. Vicente Manuel de Sardaneta y Legaspi, I Marqués de San Juan de Rayas, The Marquis' great grandmother was Da. Antonia de Rutiaga, same well-known mining family that dominated that area of San Luis Potosí. I am not sure the exact degree, but it would be worth researching. On the Cortés de Monroy please email me as my findings are not published yet.
Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino
After analyzing several sources and María de Rutiaga's christening record I can conclude the exact link--Agustina Robledo is a second cousin (or tía in Hispanic custom) to the father of the I Marqués de San Juan de Rayas.
18 de marzo de 1619 - San Luis Potosí
“En dies y ocho dias del mes de marso de mil y seis sientos y dies y nueve, baptise a Maria, hija de Francisco de Rrutiaga y de su mujer doña Ysabel [Adriansen]. Fueron sus padrinos Pedro de Salasar, Alcalde Mayor y su hija doña Luisa. “ The link follows:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9G2L-1DX?mode=g&i=99&wc=3P…
François de Rutiaga and Isabel Adriansen had two daughters:
1. Da. Antonia de Rutiaga who had D. Antonio de Sardaneta y Legaspi who had D. José de Sardaneta y Legaspi who had D. Vicente Francisco de Sardaneta y Legaspi, I Marqués de San Juan de Rayas.
2. Da. María de Rutiaga who had Da. Andrea de la Orta y Rutiaga who had Da. Agustina Rosa Robledo y Rutiaga who married Francisco de Colunga Cortés.
Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino
Hola Danny:
La información de méritos y servicios tiene 14 páginas y con muchas palabras abreviadas.
Pero se advierte lo siguiente:
Diego de Torres Ribera hijo de Jhoan de Torres, hidalgo de la ciudad de León, España heredó un mayorazgo de su padre Paulo de Torres de dos pueblos, el primero no entiendo parece "toldanos" y el segundo de Rodexos linderos con la ciudad de León; la madre fue María de Paz hija legítima de Diego de Tapia ¿Alvarez? corregidor y María de Paz, ésta es hija del Capitán Pedro de Paz -natural de Salamanca- conquistador de Nueva España y encomendero de los pueblos de Atotonilco, Ecatlán y "guasq." de la ciudad de Meztitlán (Hidalgo)
Don Diego es además primo del conquistador Diego de Ordaz y encomendero de Singüilucan (Hidalgo) Calpa y Chilapa que posee Don Antonio de Ordaz y Mendoza, primo también de Don Diego.
Marcelina
Hola otra vez Danny:
Los pueblos actualmente se llaman Toldanos (por toledanos que emigraron de Toledo a ese lugar) y Roderos.
´
Resultó interesante que los ascendientes de María de Paz, ya que es sobrina de Don Rodrigo de Paz, mayordomo de Hernán Cortés, que fuera injustamente martirizado y ajusticiado por la Audiencia de Nueva España.
Los hermanos de Don pedro de Paz son los siguientes:
Juan Nuñez
Francisco Nuñez, relator del Consejo de Indias
Rodrigo de Paz.
Hay muchos registros de la persecución que hicieron los hermanos en contra de los oidores Almíndez y Chirino.
Pero además la familia Paz de Salamanca es de origen noble podría ser la descendencia directa del Conde de Ledesma, cuyo hijo fue despojado por su tío materno quien adujo que el niño era ilegítimo (falsamente) exigió que la viuda se sometiera a una ordalía quemando sus brazos para comprobar su inocencia. La viuda huyó y se refugió con su suegra y los descendientes del infante se apellidaron "de Paz". Hay más sobre ésta historia en el blog de Paloma Torrijos en los artículos sobre los condes de Ledesma.
La familia Monroy era de Extremadura. Don Martín Cortés "El Viejo" del reino de León se casó con una mujer de apellido Monroy en Extremadura y fueron padres de los siguientes hijos:
1. Hernando
2. Juan
3. Juan
4. Alonso
5. Martín Cortés de Monroy (padre de Hernán Cortés).
6. Leonor
7. María
Tuvo demás una hija ilegítima llamada Inés Gomez de Paz. Al parecer la familia Cortés proviene de Lombardía, para saber la historia completa puedes visitar la página de Daniel Cortés González: motecuhzoma.de/familia-Cortés.htlm
Suerte
Marcelina
I have asked and search for information on my great grandparents, Leonardo Rodriguez Morcillos abt 1860 and Teofila Rivas for more than 10 years. it was said they were from Dolores Hidalgo, GTo. During this past year, I put in many hours looking and finally finding information confirming this. To have all this additional information on my paternal side of the family will be so special to my uncle. He is the only living relative left of his era. The family never knew anything as my grandfather Lucio left California during the 1930's when there was a lot of deportation of Mexican American citizens and didi not tell them they were U.S. citizens so their past was lost.
Marcelina y MendezTorres, gracias por todo la informacion sobre mi familia paterna. Mi Tio quien nunca supo donde nacio, siempre me ayudo con lo poco que sabia de su familia. El se recordaba que vivio en San Diego pero de noche a dia se fueron de California en 1930. Este ultimo Agosto me pregunto donde nacio, y se lo dije y la semana pasada encontre por fin su acta de nacimiento. Ahora le podre decir sobre su familia.
Danny there is more information on Rutiaga in the book Diccionario Biografico de Antiguos Pobaladores de San Luis Potosi 1592-1666, by Rafael Morales Bocardo and some info Pas que fue primo y mayordomo de Hernan Cortes etc. in The Encmenderos of New Spain 1521-1555 by Robert Himmerich y valencia.
Hi Marcelina and Simona,
I'm having difficulty following this discussion, who are the ancestors of Juana de Torres y Paz Cortez de Monroy? Specifically, how did she come to have the name Cortez de Monroy? If she descends from Inez Gomez de Paz and the notary, Francisco Nunez de Valera, how would she connect to the Monroy?
Ashlynn
Marcelina stated above that Don Martín Cortés "El Viejo" del reino de León se casó con una mujer de apellido MONROY en Extremadura y fueron padres de los siguientes hijos:
1. Hernando
2. Juan
3. Juan
4. Alonso
5. Martín Cortés de Monroy (padre de Hernán Cortés).
6. Leonor
7. María
(The following is from the web page of Daniel Cortes Gonzales http://www.motecuhzoma.de/familia-Cortes.html)as stated above by Marcelina
La hija ilegítima se llamó Inés Gómez de Paz. Desempeñó un importante papel en la vida del Conquistador Hernán Cortés.
Según testimonio del propio Hernán Cortés en 1546, su tía Inés Gómez de Paz era hija natural de su abuelo, “habida con otra mujer” fuera del matrimonio legítimo.
A los hijos de Inés: Rodrigo (Mayordomo), Pedro (Abogado en Espana) y Ana; el Conquistador les dio siempre el tratamiento de primos.
This is how I understood the information
I forgot to add that because Ines was from another mother than the Monroy she could not be a Monroy as Martin Cortes de Monroy hijo de Martin Cortes el viejo, que se caso con una llamada Monroy.
Marcelina
Thank you very much for reading the document and providing us with this valuable information. This is very helpful.
Danny C. Alonso
Thank you Daniel. These are my 6th g-grandparents! I wasn't able to connect them to SLP until I read your message.
I descend from their daughter Maria Trinidad Chavez married to Lucas Ylario Yanes in Teocaltiche 05 May 1783.
-Angelina-
Angelina,
We are related then on a closer level. I descend from Da. Juana Manuela de Chávez Fragoso y Colunga who married D. Luciano Yáñez de Esqueda y Zavala on 31 May 1767 in Teocaltiche. I was not aware of the existence of Trinidad Chávez married to Lucas Hilario Yáñez, perhaps we have two siblings marrying two siblings?
Daniel
Hi Danny,
I'm not familiar with Juan de Colunga or Isabel Mendez or
any Colunga family, but some of the names Rick mentioned are mentioned on
this thread and their connection to the Anzo y Tellez family and the Torres
y Rivera familiy.
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/node/17402?page=1
Paige
On Monday, January 30, 2017, Danny Alonso wrote:
> Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
>
> Im looking for the parents of my ancestors Juan Colunga an Isabel Mendez
> probly from Valle de San Francisco, San Luis Potosí where their children
> married. i think they were born around 1680 or maybe a little earlier. im
> hoping someone else in the group descends from them or has information on
> them. thank you
>
> Danny C. Alonso
Ysabel Mendoza is the same person as Ysabel Mendez and Ysabel Paez and Ysabel Pays. I have her husband as Juan Colunga y Cortes. His name is often abbreviated Jn. Colunga.
Joan De Colunga Cortes's wife is Gabriela De Anso Y Riba. (Ribera/Rivera) are the parents of Joan Colunga Anso who I believe may be the juan Colunga married to Ysabel Mendoza Paez. (Mendez Pays)
Rick
Juan Colunga and Ysavel Mendez (7th grandparents)
After searching as many Juan Colunga’s within 25 years (1625-1650) in Mexico only the following two fit and they ended up being from the same couple in which they gave their sons the same name just different spelling.
1. Juan Colunga - Bapt. 6 JUN 1636 (Juan De Colunga Cortes + Gabriela De Anso Y Telles) El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico
2. Joan Colunga Anso M3CC-GN3 Bapt. 21 OCT 1640 (Juan De Colunga Cortes + Gabriela De Anso Y Telles) El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico
M: 03 Feb 1668 + Josepha Gonsales El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico
I could not find this couples IM or marriage image to confirm their age, caste and parents.
I semi-merged Ysavel Mendez with Ysavel Pays (Paes) as their son Joseph fit perfectly yesterday.
I read the link sent by Paigeherrera it seems others felt the same way.
Back in October in 2016 I was only able to find Juan de Colunga Cortes and Gabriela de Anso y Telles marriage image in which Pedro Quixas stands in for Juan Colunga.
thank you everybody. I really appreciate all of your help.
Marcelina, do you have the link to that book Partidos y padrones del
Obispado de Michoacán?
Mr. Ricci thank you for all that information and for putting all the pieces
together. It was very helpful.
Paige i noticed that thread earlier today and Daniel Méndez says hes a
descendant of this family and he is always very knowledgable so he probly
knows how theyre related to the Torres y Rivera family but he didnt mention
it on the thred.
Simona thank you for all your information and especially for finding the
marriage record for Juan de Colunga and Gabriela de Anso
Danny C. Alonso
On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 1:22 PM, wrote:
> Juan Colunga and Ysavel Mendez (7th grandparents) After searching as many
> Juan Colunga’s within 25 years (1625-1650) in Mexico only the following two
> fit and they ended up being from the same couple in which they gave their
> sons the same name just different spelling. 1. Juan Colunga - Bapt. 6 JUN
> 1636 (Juan De Colunga Cortes + Gabriela De Anso Y Telles) El
> Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico 2. Joan Colunga Anso
> M3CC-GN3
> Bapt. 21 OCT 1640 (Juan De Colunga Cortes + Gabriela De Anso Y Telles) El
> Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico M: 03 Feb 1668 + Josepha
> Gonsales El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico I could not find
> this couples IM or marriage image to confirm their age, caste and parents.
> I
> semi-merged Ysavel Mendez with Ysavel Pays (Paes) as their son Joseph fit
> perfectly yesterday. I read the link sent by Paigeherrera it seems others
> felt the same way. Back in October in 2016 I was only able to find Juan de
> Colunga Cortes and Gabriela de Anso y Telles marriage image in which Pedro
> Quixas stands in for Juan Colunga.
> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6QQ9-BHP
>
Dear Danny,
Your welcome. I'm glad that I could help.
Gabriela de Anso y Telles seems to be the same person as Gabriela de Anso y Ribera. The Ribera surname is most likely Torres Ribera. The Telles and Torres may depend on who is reading the record. More research is needed to compare the writings to get the surname right.
Rick A. Ricci
Hi Danny,
In his book Archivos parroquiales de Aguascalientes, Daniel Méndez connects the Colunga family to the Torres y Rivera when he makes reference to three girls named María that were baptized between 1638 and 1640, María (hija de Juan de Colunga Cortés y Gabriela de Anso y Téllez), María (hija de Alonso Pérez de Hortega y Philipa de Anso y Téllez) and María, (hija de Domingo de Iriarte y María de Anso y Téllez). Below are the baptisms for each:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6QQ9-B27
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6QQ9-B6S
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6QQ9-BYM
All of the three María's were baptized by the licenciado Diego de Torres y Rivera and on the margin of each of the baptisms is the licenciado's note after Gabriela de Anso y Téllez, Philipa de Anso y Téllez and María de Anso y Téllez that says "mi sobrina."
Daniel's note regarding this family states, "El beneficiado de la villa de Aguascalientes don Diego de Torres y Rivera era tío carnal de los hermanos Anso y Téllez vía su línea materna. Eran hijos de don Esteban de Anso y Téllez antiguo vecino de la Ciudad de México y N. de Rivera. Esta era hermana del beneficiado Diego de Torres y Rivera dichos hijos de Juan de Torres y Rivera, hijosdalgo y mayorazgo natural de la ciudad de León en los Reinos de Castilla y doña María de la Paz, criolla de la ciudad de Zacatecas"
Chris
Thank up Chris for explaining that the two names Gabriela de Anso y Telles and Gabriela de Anso y Torres Ribera are not mistakes and that Gabriela descends from both the Telles and the de Torres y Rivera families.
Rick
Thank you Chris this is great. thank you for putting it all together for me.
Danny C. Alonso
Hola Danny:
Encontré en línea un libro llamad "Breve historia de Aguascalientes" de Beatriz Rojas y otros: bibliotecadigital.ilce.edu.mx/sites/estados/libros/aguas/htlm.secc_14.htlm
en el que se menciona que Juan de Colunga era propietario de un obraje (textil) en la ciudad de Aguascalientes.
Respecto del libro de los partidos y padrones del obispado de Michoacán está en Family History Library 972.37k, hay una versión de googlebooks pero no incluye la parte de San Luis Potosí.
Saludos
Marcelina
I have looked for this family in previous chats on NRanchos. and did not find anything on them, but lots of other good stuff. I have looked in familysearch and still I did not find anything. I did put together from the information given the family of Lic. Diego Torres Ribera on Familysearch, but I still did not get any matches. Is there a book/books on this family since there were antiguo vecinos de D.F? Also Danny or anyone else do you know the parents of Juan Colunga Cortez?
Thanks for all the help. I only think of the name Colunga as the name of the Mexican Actor Fernando Colunga.
Buscado a la Famila Torres Rivera en NuestrosRanchos y no encontre informacion. Tambien nada en Familysearch donde los datos de la informacion los entre, pero nada. Hay libro/libros donde se menciona esta antigua familia de D.F. Y alguin sabe de los pades de Juan colunga Cortez? (Todavia no llega me copia de partidas y padrones de Michoacan).
Hola Simone:
Al parecer el apellido Colunga es gallego y una rama muy grande pasó a las Islas Canarias y luego a Cuba. Así que es un poco difícil seguir el rastro ya que hay pocos datos tanto de las Islas Canarias como de Cuba.
Saludos
Marcelina
Marcelina and Simona
i think the information came from one of these documents related to Diego
de Torres y Rivera. i tried to read them but cant. maybe one of you can
read it and tell us what it says. theres two links and after you click on
it click on ver imagenes. one of the documents is two pages and the other
is fourteen pages.
Informaciones de oficio y parte: Diego de Torres Rivera, beneficiado de
Aguas Calientes, vecino de Aguas Calientes. Con parecer:
http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas/servlets/Control_servlet?accion=3&&t…
Relación de méritos y servicios del bachiller Diego de Torres Rivera,
natural de Zacatecas, cura beneficiado de Nuestra Señora de la Asunción de
Aguas Calientes y vicario, juez eclesiástico y comisario de la Santa
Cruzada:
http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas/servlets/Control_servlet?accion=3&&t…
Danny C. Alonso
>
Gracias Marcelina por su respuesta que siempre es muy informativo.
Danny thanks, I will try my best to read what I can and share what I can decipher. I opened the first page of 14 and saw that about the 3rd paragraph it states his parents Jhoan de Torres y Maria de Pas.
Here is another record that may help.
Attach to Family Tree
Johan De Colunga Cortes
mentioned in the record of Johan De Colunga Cortes and Gabriela De Anto
Name Johan De Colunga Cortes
Spouse's Name Gabriela De Anto
Event Date 19 Mar 1634
Event Place El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JHPT-4FM : 14 July 2015), Johan De Colunga Cortes and Gabriela De Anto, 19 Mar 1634; citing El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 299,421.
Joan De Colunga Cortes
Gender Male
Wife Gabriela De Anso Y Riba.
Son Joan Colunga Anso
Other information in the record of Joan Colunga Anso
from Mexico Baptisms
Name Joan Colunga Anso
Gender Male
Christening Date 21 Oct 1640
Christening Place EL SAGRARIO,AGUASCALIENTES,AGUASCALIENTES,MEXICO
Father's Name Joan De Colunga Cortes
Mother's Name Gabriela De Anso Y Riba.
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NK2P-L8P : 12 December 2014), Joan De Colunga Cortes in entry for Joan Colunga Anso, 21 Oct 1640; citing EL SAGRARIO,AGUASCALIENTES,AGUASCALIENTES,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 299,421.
Dear Danny,
Here are a few records that may help you in your research of Juan Colunga and Ysabel Mendoza (Mendez)
Colunga
Juan De Colunga
mentioned in the record of Melhora Colunga Mendes
Name Juan De Colunga
Gender Male
Wife Ysabel Mendes
Daughter Melhora Colunga Mendes
Other information in the record of Melhora Colunga Mendes
from Mexico Baptisms
Name Melhora Colunga Mendes
Gender Female
Christening Date 20 Jan 1676
Christening Place SAN FRANCISCO,VILLA DE REYES,SAN LUIS POTOSI,MEXICO
Father's Name Juan De Colunga
Mother's Name Ysabel Mendes
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JSC4-7JR : 12 December 2014), Juan De Colunga in entry for Melhora Colunga Mendes, 20 Jan 1676; citing SAN FRANCISCO,VILLA DE REYES,SAN LUIS POTOSI,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 708,516.
Name Jn. De Colunga
Gender Male
Wife Ysabel De Pays
Son Joseph Colunga Pays
Other information in the record of Joseph Colunga Pays
from Mexico Baptisms
Name Joseph Colunga Pays
Gender Male
Christening Date 13 Jan 1673
Christening Place SAN FRANCISCO,VILLA DE REYES,SAN LUIS POTOSI,MEXICO
Father's Name Jn. De Colunga
Mother's Name Ysabel De Pays
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NLJD-427 : 12 December 2014), Jn. De Colunga in entry for Joseph Colunga Pays, 13 Jan 1673; citing SAN FRANCISCO,VILLA DE REYES,SAN LUIS POTOSI,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 708,516.
Jn. De Colunga
mentioned in the record of Joseph Colunga Mendes
Name Jn. De Colunga
Gender Male
Wife Ysabel Mendes
Son Joseph Colunga Mendes
Other information in the record of Joseph Colunga Mendes
from Mexico Baptisms
Name Joseph Colunga Mendes
Gender Male
Christening Date 1681
Christening Place SAN FRANCISCO,CHARCAS,SAN LUIS POTOSI,MEXICO
Father's Name Jn. De Colunga
Mother's Name Ysabel Mendes
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NLKQ-CQ6 : 12 December 2014), Jn. De Colunga in entry for Joseph Colunga Mendes, 1681; citing SAN FRANCISCO,CHARCAS,SAN LUIS POTOSI,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 707,719.
Jn. De Colunga
mentioned in the record of Roque Colunga Mendes
Name Jn. De Colunga
Gender Male
Wife Ysabel Mendes
Son Roque Colunga Mendes
Other information in the record of Roque Colunga Mendes
from Mexico Baptisms
Name Roque Colunga Mendes
Gender Male
Christening Date 1681
Christening Place SAN FRANCISCO,CHARCAS,SAN LUIS POTOSI,MEXICO
Father's Name Jn. De Colunga
Mother's Name Ysabel Mendes
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NTDH-WP5 : 12 December 2014), Jn. De Colunga in entry for Roque Colunga Mendes, 1681; citing SAN FRANCISCO,CHARCAS,SAN LUIS POTOSI,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 707,719.
Name Joan Colunga Anso
Gender Male
Christening Date 21 Oct 1640
Christening Place EL SAGRARIO,AGUASCALIENTES,AGUASCALIENTES,MEXICO
Father's Name Joan De Colunga Cortes
Mother's Name Gabriela De Anso Y Riba.
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NK2P-L8G : 12 December 2014), Joan Colunga Anso, 21 Oct 1640; citing EL SAGRARIO,AGUASCALIENTES,AGUASCALIENTES,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 299,421.
Good luck,
Rick A. Ricci
Hola Danny:
¿Revisaste el padrón del Valle de San Francisco en 1683? Está en el libro Partidos y padrones del Obispado de Michoacán de Alberto Carrillo Cázares que está en Familysearch.
Saludos
Marcelina
After 9 years of working on records, I came across "coiota" for the first time today. Thanks to a Portuguese-language web site's footnote I now know that it means media-mestiza/media-india.
Also, you can have a look here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casta
At the bottom of the page are some sources listed as well.
Here is a good place to start, if you want to learn more about the different castas in colonial Mexico:
https://nativeheritageproject.com/2013/06/15/las-castas-spanish-racial-…
Regards
Denise
ps the website is in English
I am looking for any information on Blas Romo De Vivar and Getrudis Ramirez. I have them married in 1761 with the Parents of Blas being Bartolome Romo De Vivar and Margarita Moran De Ledesma.
Hola primos,
Excellent Resource. Thanks!
It looks good, but I wouldn’t use it by itself. I would cross check it with another source. I use Google Maps, pueblosamerica.com, and IIEG Jalisco. The IIEG site also allows one to download modern maps of individual municipios: Atotonilco, Arandas, Ayotlan, Degollado, Jesus Maria, La Barca, and so on.
Over the past couple hundred years the region has experienced at least a couple of major political upheavals, large-scale land reform, and sweeping economic and demographic changes. Many ranchos, estancias, and haciendas underwent name changes over time as properties were bought, sold, inherited, swallowed up or split up. I think some places were simply abandoned and forgotten. Many places also happen to share the same names others. It can be frustrating to try to pinpoint a modern location for some ranchos of the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries. It would be a treat for many of us, I am sure, if there were a detailed historical atlas of the entire region.
None of the resources you list are as detailed as the website apozolco offered. His source is the first source that includes small poblaciones that are missing from most maps.
I am researching the Escamilla family of Jalisco and the Noriega family from Zacatecas.
Nicolas Briseno Alfaro
Gender Male
Christening Date 07 Nov 1682
Christening Place SAN AGUSTIN,AYO EL CHICO,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Pedro Briseno
Mother's Name Augustina De Alfaro
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NKQS-ZQY : 10 February 2018), Augustina De Alfaro in entry for Nicolas Briseno Alfaro, 07 Nov 1682; citing SAN AGUSTIN,AYO EL CHICO,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 280,669.
Rick A. Ricci
Rick thanks for the information, you have a lot of information on this family. Is this one of the families you are researching?
I do feel this is the family I am looking for, but I was still hoping to find Jose Paulin’s birth record. The information you provided explains the Alfaro/Perez connection, I was looking for Maria Perez and she was listed as Alfaro in the records. His 3 marriage records in Guanajuato showed his place of birth as Ayo el Chico, and La Barca, Jalisco, that could have meant a connection to La Barca.
Thanks,
Virginia
Dear Virginia,
I used the information that you provided to research this family. I also found a marriage record that you may want to study.
Juan Manuel De Escamilla
Spouse's Name Maria Quiteria De Alfaro
Event Date 08 Oct 1727
Event Place San Agustin,Ayo El Chico,Jalisco,Mexico
Father's Name Nicolas Joseph De Escamilla
Mother's Name Micaela De Lomeli
Spouse's Father's Name Juan De Alfaro
Spouse's Mother's Name Juana Peres
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JCDL-FG5 : 10 February 2018), Micaela De Lomeli in entry for Juan Manuel De Escamilla and Maria Quiteria De Alfaro, 08 Oct 1727; citing San Agustin,Ayo El Chico,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 280,786.
Here is the baptismal record that may help you:
Name Joseph Domingo Escamilla Guebara
Gender Male
Christening Date 15 May 1783
Christening Place SANTA MARIA DE GUADALUPE, ARANDAS, JALISCO, MEXICO
Father's Name Joseph Paulin Escamilla
Mother's Name Maria Josepha De Guebara
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N1YG-Z6F : 10 February 2018), Joseph Paulin Escamilla in entry for Joseph Domingo Escamilla Guebara, 15 May 1783; citing SANTA MARIA DE GUADALUPE, ARANDAS, JALISCO, MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 279,526.
I know two of Jose Paulin Escamilla’s wives, Theodora Ramona Aguirre and Maria Josepha Ladron De Guevara. I don't know the name of his third wife. I couldn’t figure out the name of the third wife.
I didn’t find Jose Paulin Escamilla’s record. You stated his birth was 1740. Try looking through baptismal records in Ayo el Chico for the year 1738.
I found a baptismal record for Joseph Paulin Escamilla’s brother:
Joseph Buenaventura Escamilla Alfaro
Gender Male
Christening Date 02 Jul 1742
Christening Place SAN AGUSTIN,AYO EL CHICO,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Juan Manuel Escamilla
Mother's Name Juana Quiteria Alfaro
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JMX4-N2N : 11 February 2018), Joseph Buenaventura Escamilla Alfaro, 02 Jul 1742; citing SAN AGUSTIN,AYO EL CHICO,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 280,670.
I’m glad I was able to help you. I have done much research in the Ayo el Chico, Jalisco area.
Good luck on your research,
Rick
Rick,
I have looked in that time frame and found many of his siblings. I will revisit my notes and records to if I missed something. His third wife was Ygnacia Yzquera, they married in 1812.
These are the microfilms I used to get my information. I may never find his birth record, but you gave me a lot of information to work with. Thanks so much Virginia
Marriage of Jose Paulin Escamilla and Theodora Ramona Navarro, 2 Sept 1772, Nuestra Sra de Guanajuato, microfilm 799478, image 321.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9GFR-B5R?i=320&wc=3V4T…
1. Death of Theodora Ramona Navarro, 26 May 1778, Santa Fe, Guanajuato, microfilm 645071, image 556.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GG6H-QDC?i=555&wc=3V44…
2. Marriage of Jose Paulin Escamilla and Maria Josefa Nino Ladron de Guevara, 3 Dec 1778, Santa Fe, Guanajuato, microfilm 0668902, image 36.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9GKB-9NCX?i=35&wc=3VHH…
3. Marriage investigation of Jose Paulin Escamilla and Maria Josefa Nino Ladron de Guevara, 18 Nov 1778, Santa Fe, Guanajuato, microfilm 642381, image 151
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GG8B-447?i=150&wc=3V4S…
4. Death of Maria Josefa Nino Ladron de Guevara, 22 Feb 1809, Santa Fe, Guanajuato, microfilm 645073, image 601.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9G64-VPV?i=600&wc=3V4W…
5. Marriage of Jose Paulin Escamilla and Ygnacia Yzquera, 27 Jan 1812, Nuestra Sra de Guanajuato, microfilm 799480, image 158.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GGFM-9MX2?i=157&wc=3V4…
6. Marriage of Jose Paulin Escamilla with Ygnacia Yzquera, 11 Jan 1812, Nuestra Sra de Guanajuato, microfilm 792335, images 26-29.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9GFQ-T5K?i=25&wc=3V4G-…
Dear Virginia,
Here are records of your Noriega family that are found in San Luis Potosí and not Zacatecas:
Pablo Jose Noriega
Spouse's Name Maria Marcelina Urista
Event Date 16 Feb 1800
Event Place La Purisima Concepcion,Catorce,San Luis Potosi,Mexico
Father's Name Jose Laureano Noriega
Mother's Name Maria De Las Nieves Rodarte
Spouse's Father's Name Juan Miguel Urista
Spouse's Mother's Name Antonia Palencia
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JZQF-LC5 : 10 February 2018), Juan Miguel Urista in entry for Pablo Jose Noriega and Maria Marcelina Urista, 16 Feb 1800; citing La Purisima Concepcion,Catorce,San Luis Potosi,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 707,542.
Name Joseph Alexo Noriega
Gender Male
Christening Date 01 Aug 1790
Christening Place LA PURISIMA CONCEPCION,CATORCE,SAN LUIS POTOSI,MEXICO
Father's Name Joseph Laureano Noriega
Mother's Name Maria De Las Nieves
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NLKF-4Z2 : 11 February 2018), Joseph Laureano Noriega in entry for Joseph Alexo Noriega, 01 Aug 1790; citing LA PURISIMA CONCEPCION,CATORCE,SAN LUIS POTOSI,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 707,501
Glad I could help,
Thank you,
Rick A. Ricci
Here is the marriage record of Juan d’ Alfaro and Juana Perez:
Juan De Alfaro
Spouse's Name Juana Peres
Event Date 03 Nov 1694
Event Place San Agustin, Ayo El Chico, Jalisco, Mexico
Father's Name Pedro Briseno
Mother's Name Augustina De Alfaro
Spouse's Father's Name Manuel Peres
Spouse's Mother's Name Maria De Estrada
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JHGY-876 : 10 February 2018), Juan De Alfaro and Juana Peres, 03 Nov 1694; citing San Agustin, Ayo El Chico, Jalisco, Mexico, reference 2:26WLMN5; FHL microfilm 280,814
Rick A. Ricci
Here is Juan Manuel Escamilla’s baptismal record:
Juan Manuel Escamilla Lomelin
Gender Male
Christening Date 19 Jul 1711
Christening Place NUESTRA SENORA DE LA ASUNCION,JALOSTOTITLAN,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Nicolas De Escamilla
Mother's Name Michaela De Lomelin
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NB94-FSH : 10 February 2018), Nicolas De Escamilla in entry for Juan Manuel Escamilla Lomelin, 19 Jul 1711; citing NUESTRA SENORA DE LA ASUNCION,JALOSTOTITLAN,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 279,254
Rick A. Ricci
Dear Virginia,
It may help you to search with Maria Perez’s full name She is also known as Maria Quiteria Perez and Maria Quiteria De Alfaro. The Perez surname comes from her mother. Here are some records of this this family:
Juan Manuel Escamilla Lomelin
Gender Male
Christening Date 19 Jul 1711
Christening Place NUESTRA SENORA DE LA ASUNCION,JALOSTOTITLAN,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Nicolas De Escamilla
Mother's Name Michaela De Lomelin
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NB94-FS4 : 10 February 2018), Juan Manuel Escamilla Lomelin, 19 Jul 1711; citing NUESTRA SENORA DE LA ASUNCION,JALOSTOTITLAN,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 279,254.
Bisente Ferrel Escamilla Peres
Gender Male
Christening Date 02 Apr 1729
Christening Place SAN AGUSTIN,AYO EL CHICO,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Jn. De Escamilla
Mother's Name Quiteria Peres
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NGNL-RXM : 11 February 2018), Jn. De Escamilla in entry for Bisente Ferrel Escamilla Peres, 02 Apr 1729; citing SAN AGUSTIN,AYO EL CHICO,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 280,670
Juana Getrudis Escamilla
Gender Female
Christening Date 20 May 1731
Christening Place SAN AGUSTIN,AYO EL CHICO,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Juan Manuel Escamilla
Mother's Name Quitheria Maria
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NBV4-QSW : 11 February 2018), Juan Manuel Escamilla in entry for Juana Getrudis Escamilla, 20 May 1731; citing SAN AGUSTIN,AYO EL CHICO,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 280,670
Juan Manuel Escamilla
gender Male
Wife Maria Quiteria Peres
Daughter Juana Gertrudis Escamilla
Other information in the record of Franco. Macias and Juana Gertrudis Escamilla
from Mexico Marriages
Name Franco. Macias
Spouse's Name Juana Gertrudis Escamilla
Event Date 29 Feb 1756
Event Place San Agustin,Ayo El Chico,Jalisco,Mexico
Father's Name Macias
Mother's Name Gertrudis Chaves
Spouse's Father's Name Juan Manuel Escamilla
Spouse's Mother's Name Maria Quiteria Peres
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JCDL-RFT : 10 February 2018), Juan Manuel Escamilla in entry for Franco. Macias and Juana Gertrudis Escamilla, 29 Feb 1756; citing San Agustin,Ayo El Chico,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 280,787.
Joseph Buenaventura Escamilla Alfaro
Gender Male
Christening Date 02 Jul 1742
Christening Place SAN AGUSTIN,AYO EL CHICO,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Juan Manuel Escamilla
Mother's Name Juana Quiteria Alfaro
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JMX4-N2N : 11 February 2018), Joseph Buenaventura Escamilla Alfaro, 02 Jul 1742; citing SAN AGUSTIN,AYO EL CHICO,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 280,670.
Joseph Vicente Escamilla
Spouse's Name Maria De La Luz Garsia
Event Date 30 Jul 1760
Event Place San Agustin,Ayo El Chico,Jalisco,Mexico
Father's Name Juan De Escamilla
Mother's Name Maria Quiteria De Alfaro
Spouse's Father's Name Juan Christoval Garzia
Spouse's Mother's Name Maria Antonia Barrera
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JCDP-6NF : 10 February 2018), Joseph Vicente Escamilla and Maria De La Luz Garsia, 30 Jul 1760; citing San Agustin,Ayo El Chico,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 280,787.
Here is Juan Manuel and Maria Quiteria’s marriage record:
Juan Manuel De Escamilla
Spouse's Name Maria Quiteria De Alfaro
Event Date 08 Oct 1727
Event Place San Agustin,Ayo El Chico,Jalisco,Mexico
Father's Name Nicolas Joseph De Escamilla
Mother's Name Micaela De Lomeli
Spouse's Father's Name Juan De Alfaro
Spouse's Mother's Name Juana Peres
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JCDL-FGK : 10 February 2018), Juan Manuel De Escamilla and Maria Quiteria De Alfaro, 08 Oct 1727; citing San Agustin,Ayo El Chico,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 280,786
Good luck on your research,
Rick A. Ricci
Happy Holidays Rick and Nuestrosranchos,
Not sure if this is the same couple as I don't know much about the couple only what I found on Familysearch.
Geronima De Rodas Ortiz LZT3-V5Y cc Joachin Muños de la Barba KH3Q-Y1J
Beatris Morales cc Ignacio Escoto Y Tovar 1651–1706
and his father is
Antonio Escoto y Tovar cc Ines Ortis de Rodas
You are correct Simona, it is the same couple. I am looking for his parents, not hers. I descend from them and have tried to find his parents for many years but I have had no success.
Thanks and Happy New Year,
Rick A. Ricci
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N87P-6X6
in this image of his passing, it mentions his wife Geronima Escoto as the person who has poder para Testar. You possible already followed this lead, but I thought to just add in case not.
I am a bit puzzled by the link you gave. It shows the record for "Juachin Barba" but it's under Gumecinda. How are these two connected? Gumecinda is my great-great-great aunt. Thanks.
sorry for the double posting.
Hello, one of my ancestors, Vicente Richarte, is listed in his 14 Feb 1745 Aguascalientes marriage record to Ma.
It's hard to say. i have two ancestors that are both expuestos in the house of other people. one, i'm 99% sure has no blood relation to the family that they were placed in. and the other person, i'm 99% sure is a blood relative and most likely a child or niece of the family that took them in. you kind of have to go through all the records of their children and the other children in the family to see how closely they interacted and whether any mention of them is made in informacion matrimoniales and other records.
Thanks, that is great advice.
Espero que todos ustedes tienen un gran y saludable año nuevo
Joseph
Ancestry recently changed the number of reference samples for ethnicity estimates from 3,000 to 16,0000, and as a result their estimates of a person’s ethnicity have become more refined.
I got the new estimate. I know each company uses different references, but it's funny because last year FTDNA did their update and insisted I was I was more Sephardic Jewish than I was Native American, which I can neither prove nor disprove at this point, while Ancestry initially said I was part "European Jewish" and now decided that was Spanish DNA.
my first dna test that i had done was 23 and me and at this time there is no changes to my dna however i will still look for it . i have uploaded mine to gedmatch, genesis, family tree dna and some other websites. i haven't done ancestry dna yet but plan to sooner or later.
FTDNA recently reclassified me as 28% Sephardic Jewish. I’ve also tested with Ancestry, 23andMe and they show less than 3% Jewish. All three are similar with approximately 17% Native American component. Ancestry has accurately updated my results to reflect my maternal line as being from Campania, Italy.
Yes, my estimates have changed and now reflect that my great grandfather came from Italy. And the British region has dropped out. There were other changes but these are the most significant. Still about a third Native American (32% up from 31 %). Plus North Africa switched out with parts of West and Central Africa as trace regions . All in all fits better with what I am finding in the church records.
Regards
Denise
The original estimates did not reflect what I expected based on my research. I was concerned because they showed little French ancestry when my research showed that many of my ancestral lines were originally from France. These new estimates are more in line with my research of over forty years on my family. This is great news that they are continuing to use more sample sizes to moré accurately represent the estimates. As more samples are provided in the future, we should see even more changes to the estimates, though the changes will likely be smaller.
Thanks for reporting this,
Rick A. Ricci
Any idea which one is more accurate? Ancestry or 23and me?
It should be the one with more samples sizes and how they set the confidence interval. I can adjust the confidence interval, but haven't seen how many samples each site has.
My DNA in 23andme has changed a little (~1%) in 2 years for each region, but nothing like the 10% in the recent comments. Every % in my Dna matches pretty close to what's expected (Iberian, native am., afican) based on family tree, except for that British/Irish. I guess it is within their margin of error.
my 3rd great grandma is leonarda aldana who married martin aguinaga and had my 2nd great grandma known as silveria aguinaga. who is the correct [arents for them?
Here are some records that may help in your search:
Silveria Aguinaga Aldana
Gender Female
Christening Date 27 Jun 1871
Christening Place SENOR SAN JOSE,OJUELOS,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Martin Aguinaga
Mother's Name Leonarda Aldana
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NTQW-S5T : 10 February 2018), Silveria Aguinaga Aldana, 27 Jun 1871; citing SENOR SAN JOSE,OJUELOS,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 63,964.
Martin Aguinaga
Spouse's Name Leonarda Aldana
Event Date 05 Nov 1863
Event Place Senor San Jose,Ojuelos,Jalisco,Mexico
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JZJS-4ZQ : 10 February 2018), Martin Aguinaga and Leonarda Aldana, 05 Nov 1863; citing Senor San Jose,Ojuelos,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 640,138.
Jose Ynez Aguinaga Aldana
Gender Male
Christening Date 27 Apr 1866
Christening Place SENOR SAN JOSE,OJUELOS,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Martin Aguinaga
Mother's Name Leonarda Aldana
Maternal Grandfather's Name Cacildo Aldana
Maternal Grandmother's Name Antonia Lopez
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N28W-SWB : 10 February 2018), Martin Aguinaga in entry for Jose Ynez Aguinaga Aldana, 27 Apr 1866; citing SENOR SAN JOSE,OJUELOS,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 639,963
Ramon Aguinaga Aldana
Gender Male
Christening Date 07 Sep 1873
Christening Place SENOR SAN JOSE,OJUELOS,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Martin Aguinaga
Mother's Name Leonarda Aldana
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NBWR-5GC : 10 February 2018), Leonarda Aldana in entry for Ramon Aguinaga Aldana, 07 Sep 1873; citing SENOR SAN JOSE,OJUELOS,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 639,965.
correct while looking through records last name i seen that my grandmas name wasn't always lopez a record was pointing to the last name of hernandez or hernandes. and also the grandfathers name of calcildo was replaced of marriage record with the name of placido aldana.
Greetings everyone: I am a new member of this group. My mother’s family is from Aguascalientes.
Hello! Just visited San Miguel el Alto a few weeks ago with hopes of visiting Rancho de los Ocotes -- where my Gutierrez line resided for @ 150 years prior to arriving in the US.
I typed “Rancho de Los Ocotes San Miguel el Alto” in google search and it showed exactly where it is, and also gave information on the number of houses in Rancho de Los Ocotes.
Rick A. Ricci
Hello everyone, my name is Arlene Samaniego and I am looking for help.
Hi Arlene,
I recall seeing additional information for Jalpa under Files>Reference Materials>Jalpa posted by another member that I found very helpful. It includes:
Jalpa Marriages 1685-1712 and 1819-1827
Jalpa Padron de 1820 Transcrition in PDF
Jalpa Padrones 1820
Good Luck in your research.
Ruben R
Hi,
You're correct, the parents of Damien Gomez are Luis Gomez and Juana Jimenez. Both Luis Gomez and Juana Jimenez are named in the defuncion of Damien Gomez:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G5VR-92SS
Chris
Thank you Chris I found this document also but was not certain it was him. I appreciate your help!
Arlene
Thanks Chris for showing that the two Damian’s were two different people. Although they were both born in 1820, they both had wives with the surname Gutierrez, and both had sons named Gregorio, there were two differences that stood out. Damien’s wife was named María De Jesus Gutierrez while Damian’s wife was named María Francisca. The other big difference was that the two Gregorio Gomez y Gutierrez were born more than a decade apart. A third difference was that one repeatedly came up in the records as Damian, while the other came up Damien.
Rick A. Ricci
I have noticed the variation in the spelling of Damian's first name on different records. Interesting.
Thank you both!
Dear Arlene,
I don’t want to steer you down the wrong path so please check your information before adding the data that I am providing you. I don’t have the wife of Damian GOMEZ as María De Jesus. I have her name as María Francisca Gutierrez. The Damian Gomez that I am writing about may not be the same Damian Gomez that you have in your family tree but much of the information that you provided fits with this Damian Gomez. José Damian Gomez and María Francisca Gutierrez have a son named Jose Gregorio Gomez. This José Damian was born at the same year as your Damian Gomez. This family has another Gomez ancestry so the Gomez Portugal could possibly come from that line.
José Gregorio Gómez bap.17/Nov/1842, son of Damian Gomez (30/sep/1820) and Francisca Gutierrez, paternal grandparents Ygnacio Gomez and María De la Cruz Garcia; maternal grandparents are Lorenzo Gutierrez and María Cecilia Torres.
Ygnacio Gómez is the son of Jose Gomez and María Josefa
María De la Cruz García is the daughter of Jph. Justo Garcia and Gertrudis Casillas
Joseph Justo is the son of Juan De San Pedro Garcia and Ana Plasencia
Juana de San Pedro is the son of Juan Marin Garcia and Lorenza “Leogarda” Lopez
Ana Plasencia is the daughter of Gregorio Plasencia and Juana Perez
This takes you to the late 1600’s
///////
Lorenzo Gutierrez and María Cecilia Torres were married in 1818. Lorenzo’s parents are Lorenzo Gutierrez and María Guadalupe Gomez. María Cecilia’s parents are Nicolas Torres and María Mexia (Mejía, Megia)
María Guadalupe Gomez may descend from the Gomez Portugal.
I hope I was able to help you,
Rick A. Ricci
Thank you! I will check on this information and I truly appreciate your assistance!
Arlene
Hello,
Dear Jaime,
I recommend that you study the baptismal record of Jesus’s brother, Jose Agustin Rosa Ynojosa, to see if you can gather more information.
Jose Agustin Rosa Ynojosa
Gender Male
Christening Date 28 Aug 1803
Christening Place SAN JUAN BAUTISTA,SOMBRERETE,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Father's Name Jose Regino De La Rosa
Mother's Name Maria Franca. Ynojosa
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JS4X-24K : 11 February 2018), Jose Regino De La Rosa in entry for Jose Agustin Rosa Ynojosa, 28 Aug 1803; citing SAN JUAN BAUTISTA,SOMBRERETE,ZACATECAS,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 604,815.
Wish you luck,
Rick A. Ricci
Hello, here is a birth record on the lower right of the site listed below for Josepha Romo Ruuz de Esparza the child of Francisco Romo and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza.
Here is the evidence that Jose Gabriel Rosales y Romo and his wife Leonor Ruiz De Esparza are third cousins , once removed, through their Ruiz deEsparza lines:
1). Lope Ruiz De Esparza and Ana Francisca Gabai Navarro De Moctezuma
2). Bernardo Ruiz De Esparza and Cathalina Lozano m. 27/Feb/1634, [daughter of Juan Lozano and Isabel Frias]. (Catalina’s paternal grandparents:Juan Lozano and Inés Martínez)
3). Xstoval (Christobal) Ruiz De Esparza and Antonia (Antta) Alvarado (aka Lopez De Alvarado)(m. 19/Jan1662) [daughter of Luis de Alvarado and Beatriz Lopez de Elizalde (Lizalde)]
4). Francisco Ruiz De Esparza Alvarado and Josepha Ulloa, (b.28/Apr/1682), (daughter of Nicolás de Iñiguez y Ulloa y Lorenza de Cuevas, m. 13/Feb/1668)
5). Leonor Ruiz De Esparza (buried 26/Jun/1787) and Jose Gabriel Rosales y Romo De Vivar. [Jose Gabriel and Leonor are third cousins once removed through their Ruiz De Esparza lines).
6). They had at least two daughters:
María Gregoria De la Sma (Santísima) Trinidad Rosales y Ruiz De Esparza bap. 18/May/1760
Josepha Gertrudis Rosales y Esparza, bap. 19/Mar/1758
=====================
1). Lope Ruiz De Esparza and Ana Francisca Gabai Navarro De Moctezuma
2). Lorenza Ruiz De Esparza and Luis Tiscareño De Molina (m. 16/May/1623)
3). Francisca Gabai (bap 24/Mar/1625) and Joseph Delgado
4). Lorenza Ruiz De Esparza bap. 6/Jun/1654 and Francisco Romo De Vivar (m. 13/Feb/1688)
5) Josepha Romo y Ruiz De Esparza and Geronimo Rosales Garcia
6) Jose Gabriel Rosales y Romo De Vivar and Leonor Ruiz De Esparza (buried 26/Jun/1787) [Jose Gabriel and Leonor are third cousins once removed through their Ruiz De Esparza lines).
7). They had at least two daughters:
María Gregoria De la Sma (Santísima) Trinidad Rosales y Ruiz De Esparza bap. 18/May/1760
Josepha Gertrudis Rosales y Esparza, bap. 19/Mar/1758
Ick A. Ricci
Source:::book Mygenes2000
Hi Rick
How can we order your book? is it an ebook or paper?
I would like to add it to my library.
Best Regards
Denise
Thank you everyone for this valuable information. Here is Ana Francisca Gabay's- (married to Lope Ruiz de Esparza) death record if needed:
https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/61089/MM9.3.1_2FTH-266-11773-14490…
Cynthia
Hello Cynthia,
I do not have any information to share on your particular line, but I am decended from Lope De Esparza brother of Francisco.
Feel free to view my Gedcom which should be posted.
Joe Jimenez
Is this the same Lope de Esparza who was married to Ana Francisca de Gabay de Moctezuma, who were parents of Salvador Ruiz de Esparza, born 1595 in Aguascalientes?
Dear Cynthia,
Francisco Romo and Lorenza Ruiz De Esparza were not past 60 when their daughter Josepha was born. Lorenza was baptized in 1654 so she was 35 when her daughter Josepha baptized in 1689. Francisco was a little older as I have him as being born in the mid 1640’s.
Josepha and her husband Geronimo had many children. Their son Jose Gavriel Rosales Romo married his cousin Leonor Ruiz De Esparza.
Lorenza Ruiz De Esparza did not use the surnames of her parents. She was named after her maternal grandmother, “Lorenza Ruiz De Esparza.” You may have confused the two women and that is why you have Josepha’s mother as being much older.
Rick A. Ricci, book Mygenes2000
Thanks Rick for posting the info. It is easy to get confused when the same names are used generation after generation, and the same person uses different last names in different documents - these are the challenges I face when doing research. I don't know what I would do without you and others helping out with all kinds of info - i use the search function a lot in NR and come across your earlier posts often.
Hi Cynthia
Another good resource is Wikitree. Here is the entry for Lorenza born 1654, with the source citations:
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Ruiz_de_Esparza-167
Best Regards
Denise
Hello-
I added Jerónimo Rosales and his parents to Wikitree, https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Rosales-203
Saludos
Austin
Dear Denise,
Thank you for your comments. I am glad that I have been a help to your research.
Wish you the best,
Dear Austin,
Thanks for adding the information to wikitree. Your postings are a great resource for genealogists. Keep up the excellent work.
Best regards,
Rick A. Ricci
Marriage dispensation for their son Domingo