Dr.mt

Testament of Juan Montañez

Published by Nandin –
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Genealogy Research

Thank you, Danny, Manny, Paige, Chris and Armando for introducing me to Dropbox. I’ve created a folder "Juan Montañez Testament" and scanned my 2003 transcription of his 1648 testament.

Comments

Published by dcalonso – Tue, 2016-02-09 11:42 | Permalink

Comment

Thank you Mary Lou. This is great. I love knowing about the lives of our ancestors. thank you for taking the time to upload this for us.

Danny C. Alonso

Comment

Maria Lou,

In case you don't already have this, here is the carta de dote of Diego Martin Saldana, giving an account of what he received from Maria de Ruelas, at the time he married Teresa de Sotomayor. It includes an inventory. It's dated 19 Sep 1661 - years after the marriage, he says he didn't have a chance to do it, at the time he married, since he was always out in the fields.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58X-HMML?i=53&wc=MXBY-RPL

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comment

Thanks, Manny. It was fun to read that carta de dote. I don't remember seeing it when I was in the archives ages ago. The old archives where I would sit by a window for better light. Looks like you are heavily into SLP research. Please contact me at nandin@att.net.

Mary Lou

Jesus Maria, Nayarit

Published by apozolco –
Forums
Genealogy Research

If anyone is looking for the 1904 death certificates for Jesus Maria, Municipio del Nayar, Nayarit, you can find them under La Yesca civil registration (1889-1911). Pages 1500-1512.

Marty Puentes/NGGS/Retiring

Published by makas_nc –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Here is a message I sent along to be posted either entirely or partially on the NGGS facebook page (you all might want to start talking about the last two sentences):

Comments

Published by bbbunny – Wed, 2016-04-13 18:19 | Permalink

Comment

Joseph,

You created something amazing and have left an indelible mark on the world with Nuestros Ranchos. Thank you for all you have given to this project and, ultimately, all of us.

Please let us know how we can continue your work and make you proud of the legacy we inherit. Most of us are not techies, but we are all familiar with hard work (genealogy is not for the feint of heart!). Will someone be stepping up to the plate behind you? Or do we need to find someone now?

Let's not let this wonderful resource end!

Annette Avila Nunez

Comment

Hi Joseph,

I agree. I've been a little more busy since I started college, but, anything I can do to help, I will. I don't want to see the site go away.

Chris

Marty Puentes/NGGS/Retiring

Published by makas_nc –
Forums
Announcements and Events

Here is a message I sent along to be posted either entirely or partially on the NGGS facebook page (you all might want to start talking about the last two sentences):

Marty Puentes/NGGS/Retirement

Published by makas_nc –
Forums
Announcements and Events

Here is a message I sent along to be posted either entirely or partially on
the NGGS facebook page (you all might want to start talking about the last
two sentences):

One day in 2002 while reco

Jose Zambrano Film

Published by makas_nc –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

From: JOSE L. Zambrano [mailto:itzcoatzin@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 6:50 PM
To: Joseph Puentes
Subject: Hello

Joseph Puentes:

I am hoping you could help me out.

Comments

Published by FamiliasJalos – Tue, 2016-04-12 07:31 | Permalink

Comment

I'll post this to our Facebook group.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Joseph Puentes"
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org, "Ciudad Juarez"
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 5:53:32 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jose Zambrano Film

From: JOSE L. Zambrano [mailto:itzcoatzin@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 6:50 PM
To: Joseph Puentes
Subject: Hello

Joseph Puentes:

I am hoping you could help me out. I am making a video about the Zambrano surname origin, and it will have sources for all the Spanish surnames. I was hoping you could share this witht eh group.

I need to fund 500usd to make the video people can pre order the video for 10 usd.

her eis a sample of a finished work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNtMwrjB0nc &index=1&list=PLCnUdeI0HmLNzdhsEweT8viFaL0itQV9w

I will publish in your tube on a private channel accessible only to them and will send them a hd dvd wiht the product.

I will do this very trasperant and will show the pay pal trassaction. Th evideo will be made in 3 wroking days since i have done the reasearch for 10 years now.

Thanks you in advance for both positive and negative responce.

THe main surname sin my work ar Zambrano mendoza, lopez to name a few.

Jose Luis Zambrano De Santiago "El Euforia".

In The News

Published by makas_nc –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/history/article71081497.html

joseph

Joseph Puentes

Clean@h2opodcast.com

http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html

Comments

Published by FamiliasJalos – Mon, 2016-04-11 15:45 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Joseph! Thank you for sharing Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society (NGGS) story from the Sacramento Bee with our Nuestros Ranchos familia!
How have you been? Jaime and I are doing well and enjoy researching our ancestors as time permits. I continue to volunteer as the FaceBook Administrator for NGGS and Jaime was just elected as the Vice President. Between family, friends and ancestry we continue to be blessed and hope the same is for you:) Please let me know if I can ever assist you in any way.
Thanks again for all you do!
Rosa

----- Original Message -----

From: "Joseph Puentes"
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 12:47:46 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] In The News

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/history/article71081497.html

joseph

Joseph Puentes

Clean@h2opodcast.com

http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html

Research Digest, Vol 123, Issue 5

Published by Jatorre1960 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

No hay ninguna informacion sobre el bautizo de Pedro de Ledezma en Zamora España por que las partidas de bautizo no fueron documentadas hasty despues de el Tratado de Trento a mediados del siglo XVl.

Proof that the parents of Melchora de los Reyes (m. Luis Delgadillo) are Rodrigo de Caravajal and Melchora de los Reyes

Published by 245luigi –
Forums
Genealogy Research

To my knowledge, up to this point I have not seen and evidence that the parents of Melchora de los Reyes(m. Luis Delgadillo) are Rodrigo de Caravajal and Melchora de los Reyes.

Comments

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sat, 2016-04-09 20:50 | Permalink

Comment

Dear Alex,

You did wonderful work.

Thank you very much for sharing this information,

Rick A Ricci

Comment

I have the book in my library. I will send you a copy of chapter 79.

I have gone much further on a couple of lines. There is too much to post here. I will let you know when my book is published.
Thanks again,
R.A. Ricci

Morisca-Gertrudis Escoto y Tovar

Published by chilerey54 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hola Miembros , I was cruising through Baptismal Records in Jalostotitlan - 1698-1701 ,1701-1707,1694-1702 Image # 225 .

Comments

Published by dgmiv – Sat, 2016-04-09 06:22 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Ronnie - I don't have anything to offer on the morisca issue. But, interestingly, I was just working yesterday on Francisca Gertrudis Escoto y Tovar who was married to Ysidro Villalobos. They had children in Aguascalientes between 1683 and 1694, so this is definitely not your Gertrudis. But since we are talking about the Escoto y Tovar family, does anyone have any information about Francisca Gertrudis? I can't find any records about her at all, other than records for her children. I am guessing that she died around 1694-1696, as Ysidro had 2 more children in 1697 and 1699 with Angela Dias de la Huerta.

Daniel

Comment

Daniel,

Francisca Gertrudis Escoto y Tovar and Isidro de Villalobos are my ancestors too. you can find them here:

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/De_Escoto_y_Tovar-12

I'm not sure who the parents of Francisca Gertrudis Escoto y Tovar are either. But she could be this child baptized in 1656:

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/De_Escoto_y_Tovar-30

not sure, but its a possibility

Danny C. Alonso

Published by RJQ – Fri, 2016-04-08 08:46 | Permalink

Comment

In my experience, the "castas" system was not used based on the romanticized colonial charts (made mostly as propaganda rather than scientific research). In Mexico, from all the records I've seen, less than five per cent are true to these charts, Is obvious (to me a least) that the "race" designation was used as a physical description rather than genetic, and the words "mulato", "morisco", and "lobo" are often used simply to state that the kid is from a possible mix ancestry, and/or a times to state how they "look", similar to today's "tez morena" "tez clara". Thus if the kid look a bit dark-skin, they would likely use any of those "castas" to "describe" him/her, regardless of their parents been "Spanish". (and for the most part the parents, specially the mother, where not present during the baptism)

A pattern I've notice at times in some towns is that when Spanish people have kids of darker skin, the would use "morisco", but when the kid was from Spanish and Natives, they would likely use "mulato" or "lobo", still it was up to the priest to designate.

Also the "casta" was thought by many, to be part of their social status, at times those who descend from Wealthy and Influential Natives/Mestizos were called Spanish.

In your record, if you don't have any other than Spanish lines before the child, is likely that the "morisco" only refers to her skin tone. But never discard any possibility. Hope it helps a little.

Record Deciphering Request. New connections Muro/Salas/Arizmendi

Published by The Genealogist –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Not long ago I was working on finding the parents of Maria de Arizmendi (wife of Juan del Muro (I)).

Comments

Published by RJQ – Wed, 2016-04-06 09:20 | Permalink

Comment

Text goes like this:

-Don Juan del Muro introduce Lorenso Lopes Pichardo as witness.

-Lorenso said he knows the one who introduce him since He born. (note "conoce al que lo presenta" in this case "presenta" means "to introduce" not "her/she is present", here the witness is talking about Juan)

-That Juan was married with Doña Antonia de Abila.

-That they both Juan and Antonia had a son, among others named Br. Dn. Aparisio Benansio del Muro.

-That he (Lorenso) knew Juan's parents "Juan del Muro and Maria de Arismendis"

-That he (Lorenso) didn't knew Antonia's parent in person but that he knew by others that they were "Pedro del Muro and Maria de Chirriaga"

-That the marternal grandparents of Juan del Muro (son) are "Juan de Arismendi and Maria de la Candelaria Rios"

-That even when he (Lorenso) didn't knew Juan (son) paternal grandparents, he knows by other people that they were "Pedro de Salas and Juana de Bonilla. (this means according to the witness that "Salas" and "Del Muro" were the same Family.

After this, there is the customary declaration of "pureness of blood", it goes and says that all the named people are "old Christians" and have no "blood mixture" etc. There is no other information in this paragraph about the Grandparents or else.

If you take in account the margin of error during the writing of this documents plus the fact that the witness didn't really knew the grand parents, chances are that they names were not fully accurate.

Hope it helps a little.

Presentación

Published by Elita10 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hola, soy Ely Márquez, empecé hace 3 años buscando conocer a la familia, pero no he sido constante hasta hoy, y lo poco que he encontrado es que al igual que varios de ustedes (por lo que he leído),

Unusual Entry

Published by alicebb –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hello Group,
This entry doesn't follow the usual formula I've read in baptismal entries, so I need your kind assistance in interpreting.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20879-26815-2

Comments

Published by ElCapitanPaco – Thu, 2016-04-07 15:31 | Permalink

Comment

Hola miembros de Nuestro Ranchos: ¿Quieren escuchar la ópera de Giuseppe Verdi, “Simón Bocanegra”?
---------
On Saturday, April 9 @10:00 a.m. on KUSC (radio station in Southern California 91.5 FM or online @ www.kusc.org) the Verdi's opera "Simon Boccanegra" will be broadcast for those interested in a "story" about Genoa's first Doge.

Simon Boccanegra is an opera with a prologue and three acts by Giuseppe Verdi to an Italian libretto by Francesco Maria Piave, based on the play Simón Bocanegra (1843) by Antonio García Gutiérrez, whose play El trovador had been the basis for Verdi's 1853 opera, Il trovatore.
---------
El sábado, 9 de abril a las 10:00 a.m. van a transmitir la ópera “Simón Boccanegra” (91.5 FM – KUSC, una estación de radio en el sur de California o en la red en www.kusc.org). La ópera de Giuseppe Verdi será transmitida para todo aquel interesado en la “historia” del primer dux de Génova.

Simón Boccanegra es una ópera con música en un prólogo y tres actos, con música de Giuseppe Verdi, y libreto de Francesco Maria Piave, Giuseppe Montanelli y Arrigo Boito (responsable de la revisión), basado en una pieza teatral homónima de Antonio García Gutiérrez. La versión original fue estrenada en el Teatro La Fenice de Venecia el 12 de marzo de 1857.
----------

But if you miss it...you can always find it on YOUTUBE.COM

SFHL

Published by alicebb – Wed, 2014-09-24 18:45 | Permalink

Comment

Hello Alicia,
It's on the right hand page the one at the lower corner--Maria San Diego.
I usually see hija lexitimo de Nicolas Vocanegra y Maria Roxo.
This entry has included info between the parents names and I'm not sure what
it means.
Thanks again,
Alice
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 9/24/14, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Unusual Entry
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2014, 7:01 PM

Alice,

Which entry from these 2
pages?

Alicia

On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Alice Blake

wrote:

> Hello Group,
> This entry doesn't follow the usual
formula I've read in baptismal
>
entries, so I need your kind assistance in interpreting.
>
>
>
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20879-26815-26?cc=1881200…
>
> Thanks so much for
all your help.
> Alice Blake
>
>
>

Comment

Hello Alicia,
It's on the right hand page the one at the lower corner--Maria San Diego.
I usually see hija lexitimo de Nicolas Vocanegra y Maria Roxo.
This entry has included info between the parents names and I'm not sure what
it means.
Thanks again,
Alice
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 9/24/14, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Unusual Entry
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2014, 7:01 PM

Alice,

Which entry from these 2
pages?

Alicia

On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Alice Blake

wrote:

> Hello Group,
> This entry doesn't follow the usual
formula I've read in baptismal
>
entries, so I need your kind assistance in interpreting.
>
>
>
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20879-26815-26?cc=1881200…
>
> Thanks so much for
all your help.
> Alice Blake
>
>
>

Comment

Hi Alice,

Between the parents names, after don Nicolas Vocanegra, it says Alguasil mayor de Santo Oficio. The Alguacil Mayor, I think is normally like a Sheriff or Town Constable, but, this says Alguacil Mayor de Santo Oficio, which would be referring to The Holy Office, which is the nice name for the Inquisition, so he would most likely have been in charge of arresting people for crimes against the Church like heresy and stuff like that.

Christopher de Cuellar

From: Alice Blake
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Unusual Entry

Hello Alicia,
It's on the right hand page the one at the lower corner--Maria San Diego.
I usually see hija lexitimo de Nicolas Vocanegra y Maria Roxo.
This entry has included info between the parents names and I'm not sure what
it means.
Thanks again,
Alice
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 9/24/14, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Unusual Entry
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2014, 7:01 PM

Alice,

Which entry from these 2
pages?

Alicia

On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Alice Blake

wrote:

> Hello Group,
> This entry doesn't follow the usual
formula I've read in baptismal
>
entries, so I need your kind assistance in interpreting.
>
>
>
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20879-26815-26?cc=1881200…
>
> Thanks so much for
all your help.
> Alice Blake
>
>
>

Published by rosa9972 – Wed, 2014-09-24 17:04 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Alice,

Is there a specific record you need help with? They all look like baptism records, but a more abbreviated version than the usual record.

Rosalinda

Comment

Hello Rosalinda,
I'm so sorry. It's on the right hand side, at the bottom.
Maria de San Diego Bocanegra. There's additional info
I'm not used to seeing and not sure what it says.
Thank you so much.
Alice Blake

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 9/24/14, rruizgenealogy@ix.netcom.com wrote:

Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Unusual Entry
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2014, 7:04 PM

Hi Alice,

Is there a specific record you
need help with? They all look like baptism records, but a
more abbreviated version than the usual record.

Rosalinda

Comment

Here's my quick read on this (mistakes in reading are possible, abbreviations used):

En el pueblo de San Juo del Rio, en veinte y nueve de Nobe de setecientos y trece años ex lisentia parrochi baptize a Maria de San Diego hija lexma de Dn. Nicolas de Vocanegra Alguasil mayor de Sto Oficio, y de Da Maria Roxo fueron sus padrinos el Cappn D Juo [Juan] de Lovion y Dna Margarita Resends
[signatures]

I think the part you're wondering about is the wording after Nicolas de Vocanegra's name. It's in reference to his position, alguacil mayor. You can read more about that here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alguacil

Let me add the position is in reference to the Santo Oficio (the religious aspect of governance is my best way of describing it; others I'm sure are more knowledgeable about it).

I hope this helps!

Rosalinda

Comment

I couldn't have done it without you, since I've never read the word alguasil before.
Thanks so much for your help.
Alice
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 9/24/14, rruizgenealogy@ix.netcom.com wrote:

Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Unusual Entry
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2014, 8:24 PM

Here's my quick read
on this (mistakes in reading are possible, abbreviations
used):

En el pueblo de San
Juo del Rio, en veinte y nueve de Nobe de setecientos y
trece años ex lisentia parrochi baptize a Maria de San
Diego hija lexma de Dn. Nicolas de Vocanegra Alguasil mayor
de Sto Oficio, y de Da Maria Roxo  fueron sus padrinos el
Cappn D Juo [Juan] de Lovion y Dna Margarita Resends
[signatures]

I
think the part you're wondering about is the wording
after Nicolas de Vocanegra's name. It's in reference
to his position, alguacil mayor. You can read more about
that here: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alguacil

I hope this helps!

Rosalinda

Comment

Alguacil is the modern translation of the word "Sheriff". Such as the word sheriff means "shire reeve" in ancient Anglo-Saxon. Al-guacil is originally Arabic and means the "local law authority".

As "Alguacil Mayor del Santo Oficio [de la Inquisicion]" he would have been in charge of arresting people accused of heresy, witchcraft, jewish-converso practices, blasphemy, native Indian pagan worship, and subsequently bringing them before the "Regidores" the council members/judges who would interrogate you and ascertain your guilt or innocence.

[By the way....isn't Queretaro a treasure trove of Italian immigrants?? Just on this page you see two Italian family names...Spinola (Espinola/Espindola) and Bocanegra...plus others like Grimaldi (Grimaldo), Lomellini (Lomelin/Lomeli) and Fregoso are not uncommon in Queretaro and Puebla genealogy.]

Steven Francisco Hernández López

Comment

It's not surprising that so many Spanish words have Arabic origins. I once read that most Spanish words that begin with "al" are of Arabic origin.
Even ojala comes from the Arabic for "God willing". I taught an English as a second language class of 50% Arabs and 50% Hispanics.
The Hispanic students were sharing a joke amongst themselves that mentioned "calzones". The Arabs snickered and said that
calzones and pantalones have the same meaning in Arabic.

About the Italian, I noticed that, too. However, I never knew my Vocanegra surname to be Italian. I've also been told that my Bravo surname is originally Sicilian.
At this point in time I can only say that as far as I have found (only to the 1700's) they both came from Spain. But, as we all know, genealogy is full of surprises!
Alice
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 9/26/14, PacoHernandez73@msn.com wrote:

Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Alguacil mayor
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, September 26, 2014, 6:15 PM

Alguacil is the modern
translation of the word "Sheriff".  Such as the
word sheriff means "shire reeve" in ancient
Anglo-Saxon.  Al-guacil is originally Arabic and means the
"local law authority". 

As "Alguacil Mayor del Santo Oficio [de la
Inquisicion]" he would have been in charge of arresting
people accused of heresy, witchcraft, jewish-converso
practices, blasphemy, native Indian pagan worship, and
subsequently bringing them before the "Regidores"
the council members/judges who would interrogate you and
ascertain your guilt or innocence. 

[By the way....isn't Queretaro a treasure
trove of Italian immigrants??  Just on this page you see
two Italian family names...Spinola (Espinola/Espindola) and
Bocanegra...plus others like Grimaldi (Grimaldo), Lomellini
(Lomelin/Lomeli) and Fregoso are not uncommon in Queretaro
and Puebla genealogy.]

Steven Francisco Hernández López

Comment

Hello Alice,

Calzón comes from Latin.
http://castellanoactual.com/una-familia-peculiar-calza-calzar-calzado-c…

Pantalón comes from Italian pantaloni through French pantalon.
http://www.elcastellano.org/palabra.php?id=1086

Saludos,
Armando

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 9:06 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> It's not surprising that so many Spanish words have Arabic origins. I
> once read that most Spanish words that begin with "al" are of Arabic origin.
> Even ojala comes from the Arabic for "God willing". I taught an English
> as a second language class of 50% Arabs and 50% Hispanics.
> The Hispanic students were sharing a joke amongst themselves that
> mentioned "calzones". The Arabs snickered and said that
> calzones and pantalones have the same meaning in Arabic.
>
> About the Italian, I noticed that, too. However, I never knew my
> Vocanegra surname to be Italian. I've also been told that my Bravo surname
> is originally Sicilian.
> At this point in time I can only say that as far as I have found (only to
> the 1700's) they both came from Spain. But, as we all know, genealogy is
> full of surprises!
> Alice
> --------------------------------------------
> On Fri, 9/26/14, PacoHernandez73@msn.com wrote:
>
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Alguacil mayor
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Friday, September 26, 2014, 6:15 PM
>
> Alguacil is the modern
> translation of the word "Sheriff". Such as the
> word sheriff means "shire reeve" in ancient
> Anglo-Saxon. Al-guacil is originally Arabic and means the
> "local law authority".
>
> As "Alguacil Mayor del Santo Oficio [de la
> Inquisicion]" he would have been in charge of arresting
> people accused of heresy, witchcraft, jewish-converso
> practices, blasphemy, native Indian pagan worship, and
> subsequently bringing them before the "Regidores"
> the council members/judges who would interrogate you and
> ascertain your guilt or innocence.
>
> [By the way....isn't Queretaro a treasure
> trove of Italian immigrants?? Just on this page you see
> two Italian family names...Spinola (Espinola/Espindola) and
> Bocanegra...plus others like Grimaldi (Grimaldo), Lomellini
> (Lomelin/Lomeli) and Fregoso are not uncommon in Queretaro
> and Puebla genealogy.]
>
> Steven Francisco Hernández López

Comment

Calzones and pantalones might be Latin in origin, but they're used in Arabic. So they got those words from the Spanish.

There are indeed many Spanish words from Arabic, including our names: Guadalupe, Omar, Fatima, Lilia and Medina are just a few that come to mind.

Arabic language influence on the Spanish language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language_influence_on_the_Spanish_l…

Laura Gonzalez

Comment

Hello Laura,

The point was that the word flow was not Arabic to Spanish since the
subject was about Arabic words in Spanish.

I was already aware of the Spanish words from Arabic since I was a teenager
and I wasn't inferring otherwise.

Armando

On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 12:47 AM, wrote:

> Calzones and pantalones might be Latin in origin, but they're used in
> Arabic. So they got those words from the Spanish.
>
> There are indeed many Spanish words from Arabic, including our names:
> Guadalupe, Omar, Fatima, Lilia and Medina are just a few that come to mind.
>
> Arabic language influence on the Spanish language
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language_influence_on_
> the_Spanish_language
>
>
>
> Laura Gonzalez

Comment

In reference to original baptismal entry...the father of the child was "Alguacil Bocanegra".

While the etymology of "alguacil" is well established as Arabic, the origin of the surname Bocanegra is indeed Italian...specifically Ligurian/Genoese.

I have been researching almost exclusively Italian and Portuguese genealogies recently and have discovered the origin of the Bocanegra surname in my Estrada-Bocanegra ancestry from Teocaltiche and Guadalajara.

The surname Boccanegra (Italian) or Bocanegra (Spanish) originated in northern Italy during the 13th century. The first Doge of Genova was named Simone Boccanegra. Go to =>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boccanegra

Interesting story about OUR last name...
In Italian [as in Spanish], bocca means "mouth and Ne(g)ra "black", so in English Boccanegra means "black mouth". Translation – Mouth Black, or in English Black Mouth.

During the 13th century the representation or depiction of evil was black (or Darkness) and the representation or depiction of speaking was the Mouth.

To say that one had a "black mouth" was to say that one was an "evil speaker" or one who "spoke of evil".

Although possessors of wisdom and knowledge that could aid mankind, the ancestors of this name were regarded as mystics, soothsayers, and alchemists, being branded by some as heretics, sorcerers, necromancers and warlocks. Despite this, they were the healers of their time, counsel to kings, and, ultimately, bringers of peace.

Simone Boccanegra (died 1363) was the first doge of Genoa, elected doge for life on September 24, 1339. His story was popularized by Antonio García Gutiérrez's 1843 play Simón Bocanegra and Giuseppe Verdi's 1857 opera Simon Boccanegra. Note the spellings in Spanish and Italian.

Steven Francisco Hernández López

Comment

Hi Steven,
How very interesting. I probably would have been burnt at the stake in 13th century Italy
with Bocanegra family and the fact that I'm left-handed. As you probably know "left" in Italian is "sinistra".
Alice
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 9/29/14, PacoHernandez73@msn.com wrote:

Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bocanegra e un cognome italiano
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Monday, September 29, 2014, 5:57 PM

In reference to original
baptismal entry...the father of the child was "Alguacil
Bocanegra".

While the
etymology of "alguacil" is well established as
Arabic, the origin of the surname Bocanegra is indeed
Italian...specifically Ligurian/Genoese.

I have been researching almost exclusively
Italian and Portuguese genealogies recently and have
discovered the origin of the Bocanegra surname in my
Estrada-Bocanegra ancestry from Teocaltiche and
Guadalajara.

The surname
Boccanegra (Italian) or Bocanegra (Spanish) originated in
northern Italy during the 13th century. The first Doge of
Genova was named Simone Boccanegra.  Go to =>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boccanegra

Interesting story about OUR
last name...
In Italian [as in Spanish],
bocca means "mouth and Ne(g)ra "black", so in
English Boccanegra means "black mouth".
Translation – Mouth Black, or in English Black Mouth.

During the 13th century the
representation or depiction of evil was black (or Darkness)
and the representation or depiction of speaking was the
Mouth.

To say that one had
a "black mouth" was to say that one was an
"evil speaker" or one who "spoke of
evil".

Although
possessors of wisdom and knowledge that could aid mankind,
the ancestors of this name were regarded as mystics,
soothsayers, and alchemists, being branded by some as
heretics, sorcerers, necromancers and warlocks. Despite
this, they were the healers of their time, counsel to kings,
and, ultimately, bringers of peace.

Simone Boccanegra (died 1363) was the first
doge of Genoa, elected doge for life on September 24, 1339.
His story was popularized by Antonio García
Gutiérrez's 1843 play Simón Bocanegra and Giuseppe
Verdi's 1857 opera Simon Boccanegra. Note the spellings
in Spanish and Italian.

Steven Francisco Hernández López

Comment

Dear Steve,

Merry Christmas,

I wanted to add some information clarifying the Bocanegra stories

You stated:

Simone Boccanegra (died 1363) was the first doge of Genoa, elected doge for life on September 24, 1339. His story was popularized by Antonio García Gutiérrez's 1843 play Simón Bocanegra and Giuseppe Verdi's 1857 opera Simon Boccanegra. Note the spellings in Spanish and Italian.

My clarifications:
The truth is that Antonio Garcia Gutierrez's play was not exactly a true story. Simone Boccanegra was never a corsair, ever a sailor and he was not involved with a Fieshi. The author combined the stories of two brothers, Simon and Egidio, into one character.

He used Simone's name and position as doge of Genoa, combined with his brother egidios life as a sailor and corsair. Egidio was married to Maria Fieschi but it was not the dramatic story of the play I descend from Aegidio [Egidio] Boccanegra (aka Gil Barbanegra), a brother to the real Simone Boccanegra. Simon and Egidio are the sons of Giacomo Bocconegra and Genevra Saraceni. Egidio is named after his maternal grandfather. He and his son, Ambogio, had some great triumphs that have written in the history books.

The myth that the family picked up the name in the 13th century is not true as the family already has the surname in the twelfth century.

Although the play/opera is not a true story, they did use bits of true facts. Also This family has many interesting stories. Egidio's wife is a great niece to a Catholic Pope.

One interesting fact about this family is that their subjects had the choice of punishment for adultery. The traditional sentence of stoning would be waived if they agreed to become a slave.

R.A.Ricci

Comment

After researching the origin of the word pantalón I found that it is from
the name of one of the most important principal characters found in La
*Commedia
dell'Arte* from the 16th century. It is very doubtful that it made it into
Arabic from Spanish in the 16th century or after especially since from what
I can find pantalon or bantalun or بنطلون isn't even used in Morocco or
the Maghreb. They use sarwel for pantalón.

Armando

On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 12:47 AM, wrote:

> Calzones and pantalones might be Latin in origin, but they're used in
> Arabic. So they got those words from the Spanish.
>
> There are indeed many Spanish words from Arabic, including our names:
> Guadalupe, Omar, Fatima, Lilia and Medina are just a few that come to mind.
>
> Arabic language influence on the Spanish language
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language_influence_on_
> the_Spanish_language
>
>
>
> Laura Gonzalez
>
>

Comment

I used to work with someone who had immigrated from Lebanon with his wife. One time, I walked into his office and he was on the phone with her, speaking in Arabic. At one point in the conversation, I was sure I heard the word "pantalones" distinctly. I thought it must be some other word that just had the same sound, as I don't speak Arabic. I asked him if he had been speaking to his wife about pants, and he said "Yes! You know Arabic?" I said no, the word for pants was the same in Spanish. We did a collective 'wow' and had a good laugh over that.

Last year, I went to the Middle East for a week for work. I wanted to learn a few words and phrases in order to get around, to ask directions, to shop, that kind of thing. I found that personally it was easier for me to learn Arabic words when I was using a Spanish-to-Arabic translator site. There are literally thousands of words that came into use in Castilian (typical Spanish) from the hundreds of years of Arabic rule of the Iberian peninsula. That and knowing that my family name seems to have deep roots in southern Spain (aka, Al Andalus) where the name Velez is spread throughout in names of towns, mountain ranges, and rivers, specifically names of places with towers (Ballis in Arabic) that had been established since the time of the Arabs, is what originally drove me to try and trace my family history. All very interesting stuff :)

Sandra Velez

Moyahua-Juchipila - Christoval Reynoso found as husband of Ana Maria Gonsales de Rubalcaba y Ximenes

Published by Lee1 Ingram –
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Silverio Reynoso y Renteria, Antonio Justo Reynoso y Renteria and Alejandro Mariano Reynoso y Renteria were all known to be the children of Ana Maria Gonsales de Rubalcaba y Ximenes, but it was unknow

Comments

Published by Lee1 Ingram – Thu, 2016-04-07 13:46 | Permalink

Comment

2 more children proven to Christoval Reynoso y Renteria and Ana Maria Gonsales de Rubalcaba y Ximenes, noted on following 1837 marriage dispensation link:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18426-48680-24?cc=1874591

Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records, Guadalajara Diócesis de Guadalajara
Matrimonios 1837, parte 2, images 1183-1188. (Reynoso and Estrada trees on image 1185)
15 July 1837 Marriage dispensation of Hilario Garcia and Juana Ulloa
Hilario Garcia was the son of Jose Benasio Garcia and Maria Cipriana Eufrosina Reynoso (mother Cipriana deceased). Hilario Garcia was 18 years old in 1837, placing his birth year circa 1819, originally from Moyahua.
Juana Ulloa was the daughter of Jose Ygnancio Ulloa (Deceased) and Maria Margarita
Reynoso y Renteria (deceased). Juana was 16 years old in 1837, placing her birth year circa 1821, originally from Moyahua.
The bride/groom were distantly related by both the Reynoso Family and the Estrada Family.

Cristoval Reynoso was the father of 1-Alejo Reynoso and 2-Jose Maria Reynoso

1-Cristoval Reynoso was the father of Alejo Reynoso, who was the father of Margarita Reynoso, who was the mother of Juana Ulloa (bride).
2-Cristoval Reynoso was the father of Jose Maria Reynoso, who was the father of Cipriana Reynoso, who was the mother of Hilario Garcia (groom).

Juan Jose de Estrada was the father of 3-Maria Estrada and 4-Antonia Estrada

3-Juan Jose de Estrada was the father of Maria Estrada, who was the mother of Margarita Reynoso, who was the mother of Juana Ulloa (bride).
4-Juan Jose de Estrada was the father of Antonia Estrada, who was the the mother of Cipriana Reynoso, who was the mother of Hilario Garcia (groom).

Deciphering marriage certificate

Published by dgmiv –
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I need some help in figuring out the bride's mother's name on the marriage certificate for Agustin Ursua and Bernardina Gutierres at https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5BH-B?mode=g&i=359&wc

Comments

Comment

Nicolas de Ursua married to Josepha Rodriguez Martin de Chabes (IM-1708 attached)

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-BL51

The parents of Nicolas de Ursua are listed as Augustin de Ursua and Bernarda Rodriguez and originally from Aguascalientes. The record you attached to deciper Ana de Chabes states an explanation of aguascalientes being his place of origin but the birth record states Jalisco. They seem to be the same person except for the timeframe of birth and IM date of birth. Of course, the priest could have made mistakes as in the case in several of my ancestors records.

Are they the same person, perhaps I missed something. I just found this record of marriage yesterday as he is married to my 1st cousin 8x removed.

Comment

On 7 May 1708 in Lagos, Nicolas de Ursua provided information to marry Josefa Martinez, 'espanola' from Hacienda la Pendencia in Sierra de Pinos, daughter of Pascual Rodriguez and Matiana Martinez (deceased). In the IM he states that he is from Rio de Santa Maria in the 'parroquia' of Lagos, he is the legitimate son of Agustin de Ursua and Bernarda Gutierrez, 'espanoles'. He declares that he is 24 years old which is 7 years older than the age of the Nicolas baptized in Lagos on 30 Sept 1677. Perhaps he didn't know when he was born and therefore didn't know his true age (not uncommon) or maybe the Nicolas born in 1677 died young and this is a second Nicolas?

The IM is at: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-V1N9-C?i=110&wc=3J8Q-L2S%3…

Saludos
Austin Perez

Comment

Hi Austin - My line of descent is actually through the brother of Nicolas, Manuel. He was born in 1679 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-K9D1-P?mode=g&i=71&wc=3J86… and married Petra Ornelas in 1707. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-K98W-N?mode=g&i=162&wc=3J8…

The marriage certificate also states that Manuel is from Rio de Santa Maria and that Petronila is from Hacienda de San Matias. But unfortunately it doesn't give parents' names. I can verify Manuel's from his death certificate, but I haven't been able to find Petra's.

I get really frustrated with trying to work with información matrimonial. Do you have any suggestions? Almost every time I have tried, I can get to a month before the marriage in question and then it skips to six months after. I am really interested in this particular marriage because I can't find any other information about Petra / Petronila Ornelas.

Thanks for all your help. I especially like your wiki pages.

Daniel

Comment

Hi Daniel,
I too descend from this couple. They are my 7th great grandparents. Below is the relavent information from their IM which is located at:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-VY9S-WC?i=119&wc=3JZP-L29%…

agos, 29 enero 1707: Manuel de Ursúa, español [de edad veintiún años], originario y vecino de esta feligresía en el Río de Santa María, hijo legítimo de Agustín de Ursúa y de Bernarda Gutiérrez, parezco ante vuestra merced como mejor haya lugar y digo que tengo tratado y concertado el contraer matrimonio según orden de Nuestra Madre Iglesia con Petronila de Ornelas, española [de edad de dieciocho años], originaria y vecina de esta feligresía en la hacienda de San Matías, hija legítima de José de Ornelas y de Ángela Pérez

testigos: Felipe de Espinoza, español y vecino de esta villa, dijo ser de edad de treinta y un años y que en las generales no le tocan; José Manuel Ramos, español y vecino de esta feligresía en la hacienda de San Matías, dijo ser de edad de cuarenta años y que en las generales no le tocan; Bartolomé González Montero, español y vecino de esta villa, dijo ser de edad de veinticinco años

Regarding searching documents that are not in chronological order; I have no answer except to say that you need patience, lots of patience. The following link is to a spreadsheet that was shared by a Nuestros Ranchos member some time ago and which I've added to when I search the archives. The way it is setup is that each tab represents a parrish or other resource. The columns are the film numbers and the rows are the image numbers. Some of the films may not be correctly indexed due to LDS rearranging the image numbering.

Best regards
Austin Perez

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3835176/Registros%20de%20Los%20Alto…

Comment

Hello Daniel. My stepfather Anastacio Sanchez married my mother and they had five children. I had one of my half sisters take the dna test. The results were 60% Native American. I found one family member for Urzua that are identified as Indian. My step father's and all his siblings had blue, green or hazel eyes and white skin. My stepfather was born in 1914. His gggrandfather Onofre Sanchez Married Maria Jesus Gutierrez in 1847, Villa de Garcia, Nuevo Leon. Do you have these names in your family tree?

Comment

Thanks Austin

Two would make sense. The two Nicolas' are surely related, first they marry into the Chabes, and Rodriguez, as many of us know, families seem to marry into the same families.

What is a mystery are the differences in surnames of bernarda, it could mean two bernardas which was a name in fashion at the time and the "original de Aguascalientes" for Agustin. I will keep looking for answers and hope someone else has a piece to contribute.

Arizmendi (Jalisco/Zacatecas/Aguascalientes/San Luis Potosi)

Published by The Genealogist –
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Juan del Muro and his wife Maria de Arizmendi were married in Aguascalientes 8 January 1668. Many descendants of this couple spread throughout Aguascalientes, Jalisco, and Zacatecas.

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Published by The Genealogist – Sun, 2016-04-03 13:20 | Permalink

Comment

Thank you for sharing this ordones. It is proving to be very useful.

Who is this PEDRO GUTIERREZ ?

Published by Ruben Hdez –
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There is a marriage at https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-F79B-5S?mode=g&i=215&wc=3J… (bottom right).

Comments

Published by dcalonso – Sat, 2016-04-02 13:57 | Permalink

Comment

Ruben,

There is a son of Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo and Ana Gonzalez Florida that uses the name Pedro Gutierrez de HErmosillo. I'm not sure if it's the same as yours but it does tell you that there were descendants of the Gonzalez de Hermosillo's that use the name Pedro Gutierrez. I'm not sure when your Pedro was born but this Pedro Gutierrez de Hermosillo would have been born before 1666. you can find see him here:

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Guti%C3%A9rrez_de_Hermosillo-32

Danny C. Alonso

Nuevo en el grupo. Un respetuoso saludo a cada uno de uds.

Published by Ruben Hdez –
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Mi nombre es Ruben Hernandez y mis ancestros provienen principalmente de Tepatitlan y Lagos de Moreno en Jalisco.

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Help 1769 slave from London

Published by alicebb –
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Genealogy Research

Hello Group,
I'd appreciate help interpreting this unusual baptismal entry (on right)
from 1769 San Martin Texmelucan, Puebla, image 161.

Comments

Published by ElizabethN – Tue, 2016-03-29 19:12 | Permalink

Comment

Alice,
I did a search of those without a last name from England in the 17th Century looking for similar baptisms. I wasn't able to find anyone else listed as a slave. If you find out more information, could you please post it here? I will be interested in what you learn. Elizabeth

Published by dcalonso – Mon, 2016-03-28 22:59 | Permalink

Comment

I can't really help you read this, but it's really interesting to see. I didn't realize that they brought slaves from london. wow. i wonder how often that happened.

Danny C. Alonso

Comment

Hi Danny,
I was just doing my usual ancestral research and came across this entry and thought others would find it interesting. It was a first for
me, but then I haven't been doing genealogy as long as many group members. If I
could interpret what was written, it might give some clue as how a negro English slave came to 1769 Puebla?! I thought maybe by way of Cuba, as the English took over Habana in 1762 and brought 10,000+ African slaves, but he claims to be from
London, England. How interesting?!
Alice Blake

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