Hello Everyone!
I have just joined the group. I have been reading some of your research work and it is quite impressive. You are all so very helpful to everyone and look forward to communicating with all of you.
Thursday, October 9, 2008
Dear Rudy,
The following are microfilms I have on permanent loan at the Family History Center:
281,017 Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1769-1801 La Barca, Jalisco, Mexico
Particia, are you aware of anyone conducting research on the Cano name in the area around Arandas, Ayo el Chico, Rancho Corrales, Rancho Cabrito in Jalisco. All are in the area around Arandas. My research covers the period 1758 to 1948. Thank you, Luis
patricia burton wrote: Thursday, October 9, 2008
Dear Rudy,
The following are microfilms I have on permanent loan at the Family History Center:
281,017 Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1769-1801 La Barca, Jalisco, Mexico
281,018 Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1779-1801 La Barca, Jalisco, Mexico
281,023 Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1828-1836 La Barca, Jalisco, Mexico
281,070 Matrimonios 1681-1768 La Barca, Jalisco, Mexico
281,071 Matrimonios 1768-1814 La Barca, Jalisco, Mexico
281,073 Matrimonios 1836-1861 La Barca, Jalisco, Mexico
These might be too far back for you now. I also think the 1930 Census is in the Bonita Family History Center. The # is 1,507,533 and 1,507,534.
Keep in touch.
Sincerely,
Patricia Burton
San Diego, Calif.
--- On Thu, 10/9/08, Emilie Garcia wrote:
> From: Emilie Garcia
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction / Research Questions
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 4:43 PM
> Rudy, I said St. Helwig, but it is really Hedwig (Eduviges).
>
> Emilie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Emilie
> Garcia
> To:
> research@nuestrosranchos.org
>
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 4:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction / Research
> Questions
>
>
> Welcome, Rudy,
>
> My father had among his ancestors people named Eduviges,
> or Edubiges, or Edubigen. St. Helwig was a Saint born in
> Bavaria in the 1100s. Read about her here:
> http://saints.sqpn.com/sainth03.htm>
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> roodee>
>
> To:
> research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org>
>
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:03 AM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction / Research
> Questions
>
>
>
> Hello, I've just joined this group and am looking
> forward to interacting and exchanging information with all
> of you. I am researching Ruiz, Zavala, Castellanos, Dias,
> Mendes, Rodrigues and Quevedo. Currently I
> am researching the Castellanos and Zavala families
> that lived near or in La Barca. I've been fortunate to
> find some records of baptism for Porfirio Castellano Zavala
> (Sep 17 1875) my GG Grandfather. The records indicate that
> the baptism took place in San Juan Bosco so this suggests
> that they lived near that local parish. What is curious to
> me is the criss-crossing of surnames. For example, Porfirio
> Castellanos Zavala was married to Guadalupe Castellanos
> (born October 7th 1875 in La Barca). However, Porfirio's
> mother Refugia (born about 1860) was also a Castellanos!
> Unfortunately, I cannot find much more information about
> Refugia's family.
>
> Guadalupe's parents were Guillermo Castellnos (born
> about 1849) and Rita Mendes (born about 1850). I was very
> fortunate to find a record of baptism for one of their other
> children Cenobio Castellanos (1 Nov 1865, La Barca) that
> includes both sets of grandparents. From my experience, this
> was a great find. I'm glad to have names, but have
> little else. This also suggests that these sets of
> grandparents were present in the region. Is this a correct
> assumption, that the records of baptism include people who
> were physically present? In any case, the grand parents (my
> GGGG grand parents) were Jose Antonio Castellanos / Dorotea
> Dias (Guillermo's parents) and Eduwiges Mendes / Dolores
> Rodrigues (Rita's parents). I'm making the guess
> that they were born around the 1830's. Incidentally,
> Eduwiges (Edubigen) and other variants are very, very
> strange to me. In the original baptismal record it is next
> to impossible to read. A transcriber on family search labs
> rendered in Eduwiges. Does
> a
> ny
> one have any history behind such a name? Needless to
> say researching my family history in Mexico is quite the
> learning experience!
>
> Regards,
>
> Rudy
>
I have updated my FAMILY TREE files which include BANUELOS, CARLOS, COVARRUBIAS , DE ESCOBEDO, DE LEON, DEL REAL, ENRIQUEZ, FLORES, QUESADA, SANDOVAL, and VILLANEDA.
These trees are descendant down to my parents ELIAS DE LEON and MARIA CARLOS (Carlos de Godoy)
Jose Carlos de Leon
Does anyone know of anywhere someone can access, Mexican Newspaper archives, without having to goto the Newspaper in Mexico?
thanks,
Jonathan Walker
Jonathan:
The Library of Congress has a large collection of Mexican newspaper archives on microfilm and you can order duplications of the microfilm.
What paper or city in particular were you looking for? For what period?
Arturo, I went to the website but was not able to find them. From the
Library of Congress homepage, where do I go from there>
Thanks,
Mercedes
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Arturo,
I am looking for a newspaper from Monterrey, Nuevo Leon, for Feb 1939.
Jonathan
--------- Original Message --------
From: research@nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Mexican Newspaper Archives
Date: 10/07/08 22:25
>
> Jonathan:
>
> The Library of Congress has a large collection of Mexican newspaper
archives on microfilm and you can order duplications of the microfilm.
>
> What paper or city in particular were you looking for? For what period?
>
>
Hi there Jonathan ,
It's me Welester G. Alvarado and I live in Monterrey , Mexico . Let me see what I can dig up for you . Tell me , what is it that you're looking for ?
FYI this friday , saturday and sunday is a family gathering of the Elizondos , guest speakers will be Garmendia and the Arq. Jose Francisco Garza Carrillo as well as some others that at present I can't remember .
Take care,
Welester
> Arturo,> > I am looking for a newspaper from Monterrey, Nuevo Leon, for Feb 1939.> > Jonathan>
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Jonathan, Mercedes:
The Library of Congress has microfilm for the following newspapers, though only a couple were published in 1939 and it appears their microfilm collections are not complete as much of the film is from the Benson Collection at U. Texas related to Mexican Revolution newspapers, thus the filming ends in 1929 or so...
You can find the catalog listing at:
and searching for the subject:
Monterrey (Mexico) Newspapers
I have marked the papers that were published in 1939. Worldcat may give you other locations that have full filming.
Cuarto Poder
Democracia
Espectador
Mexican-American
Monterrey News
Norte
Porvenir*
Sol*
Tiempo*
Trueno
Jonathan,
http://www.mexico-periodicos.com/
Hope your Spanish up to par!!
-Luis
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: jonathan@mexicanfhr.com
> Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 12:36:33 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Mexican Newspaper Archives
>
>
> Does anyone know of anywhere someone can access, Mexican Newspaper archives, without having to goto the Newspaper in Mexico?
>
> thanks,
> Jonathan Walker
Jonathan,
Here is most of the newspaper old archives available at the UTEP Special Collections. It's mostly northern Mexico (Durango/Chihuahua) though.
1) Durango's public library newspapers
Archivo de la Biblioteca Pública del Estado de Durango [microform] : Periódico oficial de Durango (1833-1973)
Gaceta del Supremo gobierno de Durango (Durango, Mexico) 1833-1835.
Registro Oficial del Gobierno del Departamento de Durango (Durango, Mexico), Feb-Jul 1842.
Registro Oficial (Durango, Mexico), 1842-1856.
Opinión (Durango, Mexico), Jul-Aug 1851.
Enseña Republicana (Durango, Mexico), 1856-1858.
Tres Garantías (Durango, Mexico) Apr-June 1858.
Boletín Oficial del Gobierno del Departamento de Durango (Durango, Mexico), Jun-Jul 1858.
Coalición Fronteriza (Durango, Mexico), Jul-Nov 1858.
Boletín Oficial (Durango, Mexico), 1858-1859.
Sombra de Farias (Durango, Mexico), Oct-Nov 1859.
Falange (Durango, Mexico), 1959-1860.
Conservador de la Nacionalidad Mejicana (Durango, Mexico), Feb-Jun 1860.
Libertad (Durango, Mexico), 1860-1864.
Periódico Oficial de la Prefectura Superior Política del Departamento de Durango (Durango, Mexico), 1864-1865.
Boletín de Leyes y Decretos Espedidos por el Gobierno del Imperio (Durango, Mexico), May-Jun 1865.
Telégrafo (Durango, Mexico), 1865-1866.
Restauración Liberal (Durango, Mexico), 1867-1871.
Guadalupe Victoria (Mexico), Sept-Oct 1871.
Sufragio Libre (Durango, Mexico), 1871-1872.
Boletín Oficial (Durango, Mexico), Mar-Oct 1872.
Restauración Constitucional (Durango, Mexico), 1872-1876.
Boletín Oficial del Gobierno y Comandancia Militar del Estado de Durango (Durango, Mexico), Jan 1877.
Periódico Oficial del Gobierno y Comandancia Militar del Estado de Durango (Durango, Mexico), Feb-May 1877.
Periódico Oficial del Gobierno del Estado de Durango (Durango, Mexico), 1877-1933.
Periódico Oficial del Gobierno Constitucional del Estado Libre y Soberano de Durango (Durango, Mexico), 1933-1956.
Periódico Oficial del Gobierno Constitucional del Estado de Durango (Durango, Mexico), 1957-1973.
2). El Heraldo Newspaper from Chihuahua
Reproduction Microfilm. Jan. 1, 1928-Sept.10, 1992 [Collaborators] El Heraldo de Chihuahua and University of Texas at El Paso Library, 1991. 114 microfilm reels : negative ; 35 mm. numbered 1-111; some second copies.
3). A few other newspapers - not sure where they're from
Description 3 microfilm reels ; 35 mm.
Reproduction Microfilm. El Paso, Tex. : University of Texas at El Paso Library, 19--? 3 microfilm reels : negative ; 35 mm.
Contents El Asesor Juridico, 1910-1922--El Monitor, 1911--El Constitucionalista, 1916--Diario Oficial (Mex. D.F.), 1916--El Correo del Norte, 1920--Boletín Ejecutivo, 1922--Acción, 1945--El Hijo del Huizote, 1898--El Mundo, 1913--El País, 1913--The Mexican Herald, 1913.
Hope this helps.
Connie
---- mexicanfhr wrote:
=============
Does anyone know of anywhere someone can access, Mexican Newspaper archives, without having to goto the Newspaper in Mexico?
thanks,
Jonathan Walker
Wow Welester,
He MUST have an amazing memory! I can barely remember whom I spoke with
yesterday!
Special saludos to him and to the gentleman in the photo, who made my trip
most memorable.
Hi, I'm researching the surnames Rivas, Valdez,Llanos, Salas, and Flores
from the Val Paraiso, Zacatecas area. I have been working on a family tree
and some research has led me to these names and a consistent occupation
DOnt worry COle all of us in the group who are Spanish can relate to you, just look at our trees you find multiple people on their like 20
times. My parents are related, my grandparentes were related about 12 times, it was common who Spaniards to marry inside if a suitable spouse wasnt found. MOstly to perserve what we call "pure blood" which I think is kind of racist but I respect my ancestors decisions.
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Hello everyone,
Since joining the group about a month ago I have made a tremendous amount of
progress on both my Chavez and Padilla lines.
On my Chavez line I can now go back to the early 1700's with the children of
Domingo Chavez and Juana de Garza in Teocuitatlan de Corona, Atoyac,
Jalisco, Mexico. I have had even more luck with my Padilla line, obviously
it is a much better documented family. I can now trace it from Pablo
Padilla, the founder of San Julian, Jalisco to Pero Lopez de Padilla in
Spain during the mid 1200's.
I've updated my files
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/17062 to reflect all my progress
I was wondering if anyone could advise me as to where I could look for
additional information on the Padilla in Spain beyond the 1200's. My new
focus is now the families that married into my Chavez line - Rodriguez,
Urzua, Garcia, Soto, Sotomayor, Cuevas, Silva - from around Teocuitatlan de
Corona, Atoyac, Jalisco, Mexico. And the families that married into my
Padilla line - Moreno, Munoz, Marquez, Enriquez, Hurtado, Macias-Valadez,
Cortez-Benavides.
-Angelina-
WEll fo SPain it seems this is noble amily hence why it goes that far back. Have you conntect tothe SPanish Kings yet, you should have some kng by the 1300's? It is funny about 85% of all spaniards were nobles and the rest were "comons" only about 3% survived to have descendants of the commons today. I once read an article on Ancestry.com (Will try to post the article link) saying all Hispancis are the remnants and descendants of the SPanish Royal family in the Middle Ages. -Daniel
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?????
--- On Sat, 9/6/08, Daniel Mendez wrote:
From: Daniel Mendez
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, September 6, 2008, 11:10 AM
WEll fo SPain it seems this is noble amily hence why it goes that far back.
Have you conntect tothe SPanish Kings yet, you should have some kng by the
1300's? It is funny about 85% of all spaniards were nobles and the rest were
"comons" only about 3% survived to have descendants of the commons
today. I once read an article on Ancestry.com (Will try to post the article
link) saying all Hispancis are the remnants and descendants of the SPanish Royal
family in the Middle Ages. -Daniel
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See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your
life.
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Hi Daniel,
yes and no. Spaniards in the Middle Ages are linked to the king as serfs to the king but I doubt in a bloodline. Royalties are the dynasties who reign a country. Nobilities were the administrators and the kinghts were the lower part of the nobility, they came from the ministeriales (serfs/employees to a king).
Perhaps an exemple for a better understanding: a royal lettercarrier is not a messenger of the king he is simply a lettercarrier of the royal postal service, an employee of the state in a monarchy.
As the knights became in the middle to the end of the middle ages slowly but surely unnecessary (see novel Don Quixote) due to the change from the "squatter"/tribal right (that what I occupy I own) to a documentary right (territorial sovereighnty with documentation) the kings together with the church had to look for a new duty for the knights, so they sent them to the crusades to secure the trade routes and for a promise of a fief of land. Good for Spain was the discovery of the Americas, so some knights, always with the church as spiritual advisers, made the colonisation for instance in Mexico.
History exist as a fact, only it needs a correct interpretation.
Very good lectures in history of the middle ages are in Wikipedia.
Regards,
Guenter Boehm (Husband of Bertha Boehm ,Member of N.R.)
En Busca de mis Antepasados
http://www.boehm-chronik.com/mexico/antepasados.htm
I too agree with you, about us mostly descending from the Nobility according to my Grandfather who comes from the Nobles in Santander, legend has it all Spaniards come from Alfonso I, Rey de las Asturias. In the 800's several families and remanants of the Visigoths I might say about 30 or so families according to the genealogy Ive seen, escaped to Asturias and elected Pelayo as 1st Chief almost like a King but not fully. It wasnt until Pelayo had his daughter married who was legitimate and she married Alfonso el Católico. He was named King of Asturias. I believe all Spaniards descend from him. I can connect to him many many times through other royal lines (as long as the royal genealogies are correct!):) My earliest King is Fernando II of Aragon (not Isabel) through one of his other wives. Im still researching a possible link to the Habsburgs through my Bourbón line, I have Jean de Bourbon in México in 1625 who's father was Alonso or Alexandro (seen both names used not sure why?) de Bourbón. I think this is the same Alexandre son of the King of France but not sure, further research is needed. Without proof genealogy is simply a myth! Anyway it is said all Europeans descend at least once from Charlamagne which is proven to be correct for some of us here on Ranchos. I think the royal genealogies are just fascinating! I was always told when I was about 5 or 6 that I came from proud and powerful españoles! I think that is why Im a good leader and love politics. Do you connect to royalty? I think your wife had told me once before but no names were mention? -Daniel Méndez del Camino
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Hi Daniel,
> Anyway it is said all Europeans descend at least once from Charlamagne <
Some even say from Adam and Eva. It is for some a nice belief, for me it is rubbish.
In the middle ages family names did almost not exist. A knight (13th century) which was a castellan (administrator of a royal castle) was named by his first name and the surname was the name of the castle. When this landless knight became a commission from the royal administration to admistrate a other castle the surname of the new castle was given to him. So one person could have several surnames in his lifetime. Surely not an easy task for an genealogist.
> I think that is why Im a good leader and love politics. <
Be careful, politicians with a sophisticated marketing team can sell any belief.
> Do you connect to royalty? I think your wife had told me once before but no names were mention? <
No, not to royalties. We don't dare assuming such a connection.
What we know about the 'NAVARROs de los Altos de Jalisco' is they came around 1550 from Spain (Fuente: Primeras Familias). Now we have to puzzle it together until the 19th century.
Best regards,
Guenter Boehm
En Busca de mis Antepasados
http://www.boehm-chronik.com/mexico/antepasados.htm
Guenter,
I agree with all you said, about not being able to trace our common ancestors back to royalty via surnames, for the reasons you specified, either in the New World or the Old. All we can hope is that the surnames will lead us to at least a location, if not to a specific person, royal or serf. I think when we throw DNA into the equation, it leads us even further afield.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: Bertha Medina de Boehm
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 6:11 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royalty, Nobility
Hi Daniel,
> Anyway it is said all Europeans descend at least once from Charlamagne <
Some even say from Adam and Eva. It is for some a nice belief, for me it is rubbish.
In the middle ages family names did almost not exist. A knight (13th century) which was a castellan (administrator of a royal castle) was named by his first name and the surname was the name of the castle. When this landless knight became a commission from the royal administration to admistrate a other castle the surname of the new castle was given to him. So one person could have several surnames in his lifetime. Surely not an easy task for an genealogist.
> I think that is why Im a good leader and love politics. <
Be careful, politicians with a sophisticated marketing team can sell any belief.
> Do you connect to royalty? I think your wife had told me once before but no names were mention? <
No, not to royalties. We don't dare assuming such a connection.
What we know about the 'NAVARROs de los Altos de Jalisco' is they came around 1550 from Spain (Fuente: Primeras Familias). Now we have to puzzle it together until the 19th century.
Best regards,
Guenter Boehm
En Busca de mis Antepasados
http://www.boehm-chronik.com/mexico/antepasados.htm
Hello Bertha, Daniel, et al,
>> Anyway it is said all Europeans descend at least once from Charlamagne <
> Some even say from Adam and Eva. It is for some a nice belief, for me it is rubbish.
You're both right. For illustration, lets consider we colonize a new
world with 10 people - 5 boys and 5 girls - all unrelated. They pair
off and marry. Each couple has 4 children. The children then pair off,
picking their mates at random from the children of the other 4
couples. It doesn't take much consideration to realize that in only
two generations each new child will be descended from two of the
original couples, and if the random selection of mates continues, most
of the offpring will be descended from all 5 couples in a very few
generations.
Now suppose that one of these orignal couples was "royalty". It
follows that nearly all of the children several generations later will
be descended in some way from royalty. The only requirement is that
the descendants of royalty freely mix and mate with non-royalty -
which we can easily show happens in our society. Even if there is some
hesitation, royal blood will eventually be intermingled with most of
the population.
So it isn't really saying much to suggest that most of the population
has royal blood, or for that matter to be descended from ANY specific
individual. It's just mathematics. That's all it is.
The problem comes when we pay attention to the royal bloodline only,
ignoring our descent from poor and common people, who in most cases
were truely our most noble ancesters!
The advantage of royalty, of course, from a genealogical perspective,
is that they kept better records of their descendants, than did the
general population, who often married and were given in marriage and
bore children and died without any record made at all.
The upshot of it all is that we're probably all descended from
royalty, and from ordinary people, ... and yes, from horse thieves.
But as I said before, the lesser known may truely be our noblest
ancesters. Our task as genealogists, is to seek out the lesser known
and honour them by recording their names and, where possible, their
deeds and their history.
And even if their deeds were infamous, were we to know all their
circumstances, we might be inclined to forgive them. So none should be
excluded from our search.
-- Best regards, Stuart
mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com
Cole:
Welcome to the group!
First of all, you should know that "Llanos y Valdes" is not a combination of two surnames as you seem to imply in your message, but rather a composed name, where the two names are always used together and transmitted from generation to generation together. I presume at some time the two names were combined, but then remained the combination until about the time of Mexican independence when such composed names became "out of fashion" since they were linked to Spanish families... I think nowadays most of the "Llanos y Valdes" use simply Valdes, although I have seen some Llanos around.
The first Llanos y Valdes in the Jerez region was Juan Jose Llanos y Valdes, who was a military officer and son of a Spanish immigrant who came to Michoacan in 1610:
http://www.ramosfamily.org/nextgen/getperson.php?personID=I1523
They were a very prominent family (and still are... they own half the land in Villa Guerrero, Jalico, where my father is from) and thus it is no surprise that the children would take the name from their mother. The naming customs in Iberia and Iberian America did not dictate until the 19th century that children take their father's (or even their mother's) surname. That is another complicated tangent.
The fact that you have relatives that are related to each other means that you may have stumbled upon a genealogical gold mine because they would have had to get a dispensation from the bishop and as part of the petition they would have exposed their relationship and thus the names of their ancestors for a number of generations.
The only drawback is that the marriage appears to be too late to be included in Luz Montejano's brilliant work on the Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara so it will be like looking for a needle in a haystack going through the dispensation films.
Thank you Arturo! I wasn't sure how the system works as Iberian naming
customs are pretty screwy(I've seen matronyms,patronyms,both, etc.). Its
ironic that his father comes from Asturias, which seems to keep popping up
in various places I've researched. All the listed names seem like they're
originating from there, though the link is hard to prove. If this Juan Jose
Llanos y Valdes is a relative, he'd be the first link to Europe that is
definitive beyond oral history of coming from Spain and France.
How many other such families of prominence exist under this name? What are
their roots? Unfortunately I've hit a wall beyond the name of Hacienda de
San Jose and its' being 10 miles outside Val Paraiso, Zacatecas. I have no
idea whether some branch of my family owns the land still or whether they
were hacked down by revolutionaries or the like.
I suspect a Sephardic ancestry at some point because Flores, Rivas, Salas,
and Valdez are all registered at Sephardim.com as names of Sephardic Jews
and Conversos/Marranos. Cousin marriage buttresses this theory, as these
people would have done so to maintain "purity". The problem is...I don't
know enough and theres the fact that some people in the family might not
have cared, marrying out into general Spanish and Mexican gentry. My Great
Grandfather on my father's side would be an example of this; he was the son
of a very religious Ashkenazi(Russian/Eastern Euro) Jew and he couldn't
stand it, leading to my grandfather and my father being raised
non-religious. That is how my father had the lack of social pressures for
marrying my mother(whom is the Mexican).
Cole,
I answered you in detail by sending an email directly to you. I have family in Valparaiso but am unsure whether our families overlap.
Ed Serros
Which hacieda did your family own, we owned La Labor, La Luz, El Salitre, Noria de los Angeles and El Carreton. All in Aguas and Zac. This ranged from ca. 1770-1918. It was said we left to Spain during the Independence and returned ca. 1827 where my 3ggf was born in Santander, in his marriage . "Eugenio del Camino, natural de Santander y vecino de la parroquia de los Angeles. We lost about 90% of our wealth in the revolution. After the revolution of 1918 the Spaniards cease to exsist in Mexico, now they were known as Mejicanos. They arrived in MAy 1913 and had my family under house arrest like criminals for over a month, apparently starving them, raping, and mistreating and stole everything. That's why when I met someone from the "group of la Raza" who their idol is Zapata or Villa, I feel ashamed what they did to my family.
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Gary, I was looking the information you submited and we have an Apodaca line that matches, we both descend from Jose Antonio APODACA. I´d like to be in contact with you and look forward.
Best regards.
Hello.
Wow, I cannot believe it! Are you also a descendant of Jose Antonio Apodaca? I have encountered a couple distant relatives in the past, but this is the first time I know of an Apodaca cousin that is researching his family tree. I am really curious to know how you and I relate. By the way, you can write to me en espanol, too, if that's suits you better. Well, I hope to hear from you soon.
Saludos,
Tu posible primo Steve.
--- On Thu, 10/2/08, viteliky wrote:
From: viteliky
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] GARY APODACA
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, October 2, 2008, 1:48 AM
Gary, I was looking the information you submited and we have an Apodaca line
that matches, we both descend from Jose Antonio APODACA. I´d like to be in
contact with you and look forward.
Best regards.
Alessandro
Hola Gary:
Es un gusto saber que has leido mi mensaje. Sabes, entre lo que he investigado encontre una linea de Apodaca que tenemos en comun y se junta con Jose Antonio Apodaca y Cornelia Rosalia Ayala. Esta pareja tuvo a tu antepasado Nemecio (del cual desciendes tu) y otra hija Antonia Margariata Serapia Apodaca (de la cual desciendo yo) la cual caso con un Castro y tuvo vasta descendencia y es donde cambia el apellido a Castro. En resumen Nemecio y Antonia Margarita Serapia son hermanos asi como otros.... tienes el sibling de Nemecio? De hecho, yo tenia ya el conocimiento de Nemecio en mi arbol pero estaba mal escrito y yo lo tenia como HERERECIO, supongo que la persona que tomo el nombre en la extracción lo anoto o entendio mal y asi lo anotó. Yo ya lo tenia en el archivo y pude confirmarlo que se trataba de Nemecio = Hererecio porque tenia el nombre de su esposa y concuerda tambien con el que tu tienes (Guadalupe Serbantes). El ver tu archivo me ayudo a corregir este nombre y punto,, asi como tener conociemiento de ti y tus antepasados que no tenia en mi archivo. Hacia atrás, has podido ayudarme a tener una generación más pues yo sólo tenía hasta Domingo Apodaca y Gertrudis Aniceta Bonal. Me sorprendi de ver los nombres cuando los lei en tu archivo pues concordaban perfectamente los nombres y apellidos.
Quisiera saber si tienes los siblings de Nemecio, de Jose Antonio y de Domingo Apodaca? Yo tengo algunos de ellos y puedo compartirtelos.
Bueno, pues espero tener noticias tuyas pronto.
ALESSANDRO
Ser de Luz!!!
_________________________________________________________________
Es tu última oportunidad para ganar premios por el simple hecho de buscar en internet.
http://www.ganabuscando.com/Default.aspx
Hola Alessandro.
Definitivamente, somos parientes. HEY EVERYONE, I FOUND A PRIMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No tenia en mi lista de hermanos de Nemecio a Antonia Margarita. No he buscado a los hermanos detalladamente, y la unica que tenia en mi archivo era a Maria Agapita nacida en 1830.
Tengo unos hermanos de Jose Antonio Apodaca: Jose Leandro, Jose Leon, Maria Catarina, y Jose Pantaleon.
En donde he tenido demasiado problemas es con Jose Domingo Apodaca. Conozco de el porque lo mencionan en las actas de bautismo de sus hijos, y aparte localice su matrimonio con Gertrudis Aniceta Bonal el 30 de noviembre de 1784. Ahi menciona la edad de Jose Domingo al casarse, y asi se que nacio en o alrededor de 1764 en Zacoalco. Desafortunadamente, no he podido encontrar su acta de bautismo. Primero la busque en los microfilmes de los mormones. Tiempo despues, en un viaje a Zacoalco, tuve la suerte de visitar la notaria parroquial y de tomar esos libros de bautismos del siglo XVIII con mis propias manos. Busque pagina por pagina, en los libros alrededor de 1764, y no encontre ningun Jose Domingo Apodaca, ni nada que me diera alguna pista de el. Los nombres de sus padres tambien los conozco por medio de su acta de matrimonio, pero tampoco he tenido suerte al tratar de localizarlos.
Me pregunto si tu sabes algo sobre la familia Apodaca, alguna pista o sospecha que tengas. Por los tiempos del nacimiento de Domingo, no he encontrado ningun Apodaca en los archivos de Zacoalco. He encontrado algo sin embargo, que podria tener alguna conexion con nuestra familia. Como te dije, no hay Apodacas por esas fechas, pero lo que si encuentro han sido muchos "Celedon de Apodaca" y "Celedon y Apodaca". Por pura casualidad al leer los archivos antiguos me di cuenta que todas estas personas de Zacoalco que tienen el apellido Celedon, Seledon, o Zeledon, esta compuesto con Apodaca. Al darme cuenta de esto, me brillaron los ojos y rapido fui a buscar a un posible "Jose Domingo Celedon de Apodaca", pero que crees, mi busqueda fue en vano. Hasta ahora no he podido encontrar ninguna conexion entre estos "Celedon de Apodaca" y mis Apodacas. Me pregunto si sabes algo sobre este asunto.
Eso si, en donde si estoy seguro que hay muchisima informacion disponible es en la familia de Gertrudis Aniceta Bonal, la esposa de Jose Domingo. Existe el acta de matrimonio de sus padres, casados el 26 de febrero de 1748 en Tlajomulco, segun el IGI de familysearch.org. Por falta de tiempo, no he podido ordenar este microfilm, pero estoy seguro que esta acta de matrimonio incluiria los nombres de los abuelos de Gertrudis, y como veo, hay registros parroquiales en Tlajomulco desde 1610.
Bueno, dejare de escribir porque ya es un poco tarde. Me disculpo de antemano con Joseph y con Arturo ya que tengo entendido que despues de hacer una conexion con otra persona, es mejor continuar con el intercambio de datos de manera directa con la persona y no por medio de este foro, pero decidi escribir este mensaje para que quede en el record, y quien sabe, tal vez en algun momento en el futuro algun nuevo miembro busque en los archivos de mensajes de Nuestros Ranchos y se de cuenta, por medio de este mensaje, que tiene dos primos investigando el arbol genealogico de la familia.
Saludos,
Steve.
--- On Fri, 10/3/08, ALESSANDRO VITELA-TOSCANO wrote:
From: ALESSANDRO VITELA-TOSCANO
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] GARY APODACA
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, October 3, 2008, 1:19 PM
Hola Gary:
Es un gusto saber que has leido mi mensaje. Sabes, entre lo que he investigado
encontre una linea de Apodaca que tenemos en comun y se junta con Jose Antonio
Apodaca y Cornelia Rosalia Ayala. Esta pareja tuvo a tu antepasado Nemecio (del
cual desciendes tu) y otra hija Antonia Margariata Serapia Apodaca (de la cual
desciendo yo) la cual caso con un Castro y tuvo vasta descendencia y es donde
cambia el apellido a Castro. En resumen Nemecio y Antonia Margarita Serapia son
hermanos asi como otros.... tienes el sibling de Nemecio? De hecho, yo tenia ya
el conocimiento de Nemecio en mi arbol pero estaba mal escrito y yo lo tenia
como HERERECIO, supongo que la persona que tomo el nombre en la extracción lo
anoto o entendio mal y asi lo anotó. Yo ya lo tenia en el archivo y pude
confirmarlo que se trataba de Nemecio = Hererecio porque tenia el nombre de su
esposa y concuerda tambien con el que tu tienes (Guadalupe Serbantes). El ver tu
archivo me ayudo a corregir este nombre y punto,, asi como tener conociemiento
de ti y tus antepasados que no tenia en mi archivo. Hacia atrás, has podido
ayudarme a tener una generación más pues yo sólo tenía hasta Domingo Apodaca
y Gertrudis Aniceta Bonal. Me sorprendi de ver los nombres cuando los lei en tu
archivo pues concordaban perfectamente los nombres y apellidos.
Quisiera saber si tienes los siblings de Nemecio, de Jose Antonio y de Domingo
Apodaca? Yo tengo algunos de ellos y puedo compartirtelos.
Bueno, pues espero tener noticias tuyas pronto.
ALESSANDRO
Ser de Luz!!!
_________________________________________________________________
Es tu última oportunidad para ganar premios por el simple hecho de buscar en
internet.
http://www.ganabuscando.com/Default.aspx
Es tiempo para bailar es tiempo festivo es tiempo para alegrarse porque
los perdidos han encontrado el uno al otro.
las felicitaciones y mi esperanza están que ustedes ambos hallan muchas
generaciones más de su familia juntos
joseph
====================
Joseph Puentes
http://h2opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)
Steve Apodaca wrote:
> Hola Alessandro.
>
> Definitivamente, somos parientes. HEY EVERYONE, I FOUND A PRIMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No tenia en mi lista de hermanos de Nemecio a Antonia Margarita. No he buscado a los hermanos detalladamente, y la unica que tenia en mi archivo era a Maria Agapita nacida en 1830.
>
> Tengo unos hermanos de Jose Antonio Apodaca: Jose Leandro, Jose Leon, Maria Catarina, y Jose Pantaleon.
>
> En donde he tenido demasiado problemas es con Jose Domingo Apodaca. Conozco de el porque lo mencionan en las actas de bautismo de sus hijos, y aparte localice su matrimonio con Gertrudis Aniceta Bonal el 30 de noviembre de 1784. Ahi menciona la edad de Jose Domingo al casarse, y asi se que nacio en o alrededor de 1764 en Zacoalco. Desafortunadamente, no he podido encontrar su acta de bautismo. Primero la busque en los microfilmes de los mormones. Tiempo despues, en un viaje a Zacoalco, tuve la suerte de visitar la notaria parroquial y de tomar esos libros de bautismos del siglo XVIII con mis propias manos. Busque pagina por pagina, en los libros alrededor de 1764, y no encontre ningun Jose Domingo Apodaca, ni nada que me diera alguna pista de el. Los nombres de sus padres tambien los conozco por medio de su acta de matrimonio, pero tampoco he tenido suerte al tratar de localizarlos.
>
> Me pregunto si tu sabes algo sobre la familia Apodaca, alguna pista o sospecha que tengas. Por los tiempos del nacimiento de Domingo, no he encontrado ningun Apodaca en los archivos de Zacoalco. He encontrado algo sin embargo, que podria tener alguna conexion con nuestra familia. Como te dije, no hay Apodacas por esas fechas, pero lo que si encuentro han sido muchos "Celedon de Apodaca" y "Celedon y Apodaca". Por pura casualidad al leer los archivos antiguos me di cuenta que todas estas personas de Zacoalco que tienen el apellido Celedon, Seledon, o Zeledon, esta compuesto con Apodaca. Al darme cuenta de esto, me brillaron los ojos y rapido fui a buscar a un posible "Jose Domingo Celedon de Apodaca", pero que crees, mi busqueda fue en vano. Hasta ahora no he podido encontrar ninguna conexion entre estos "Celedon de Apodaca" y mis Apodacas. Me pregunto si sabes algo sobre este asunto.
>
> Eso si, en donde si estoy seguro que hay muchisima informacion disponible es en la familia de Gertrudis Aniceta Bonal, la esposa de Jose Domingo. Existe el acta de matrimonio de sus padres, casados el 26 de febrero de 1748 en Tlajomulco, segun el IGI de familysearch.org. Por falta de tiempo, no he podido ordenar este microfilm, pero estoy seguro que esta acta de matrimonio incluiria los nombres de los abuelos de Gertrudis, y como veo, hay registros parroquiales en Tlajomulco desde 1610.
>
> Bueno, dejare de escribir porque ya es un poco tarde. Me disculpo de antemano con Joseph y con Arturo ya que tengo entendido que despues de hacer una conexion con otra persona, es mejor continuar con el intercambio de datos de manera directa con la persona y no por medio de este foro, pero decidi escribir este mensaje para que quede en el record, y quien sabe, tal vez en algun momento en el futuro algun nuevo miembro busque en los archivos de mensajes de Nuestros Ranchos y se de cuenta, por medio de este mensaje, que tiene dos primos investigando el arbol genealogico de la familia.
>
> Saludos,
>
> Steve.
>
>
> --- On Fri, 10/3/08, ALESSANDRO VITELA-TOSCANO wrote:
>
> From: ALESSANDRO VITELA-TOSCANO
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] GARY APODACA
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Friday, October 3, 2008, 1:19 PM
>
> Hola Gary:
>
> Es un gusto saber que has leido mi mensaje. Sabes, entre lo que he investigado
> encontre una linea de Apodaca que tenemos en comun y se junta con Jose Antonio
> Apodaca y Cornelia Rosalia Ayala. Esta pareja tuvo a tu antepasado Nemecio (del
> cual desciendes tu) y otra hija Antonia Margariata Serapia Apodaca (de la cual
> desciendo yo) la cual caso con un Castro y tuvo vasta descendencia y es donde
> cambia el apellido a Castro. En resumen Nemecio y Antonia Margarita Serapia son
> hermanos asi como otros.... tienes el sibling de Nemecio? De hecho, yo tenia ya
> el conocimiento de Nemecio en mi arbol pero estaba mal escrito y yo lo tenia
> como HERERECIO, supongo que la persona que tomo el nombre en la extracción lo
> anoto o entendio mal y asi lo anotó. Yo ya lo tenia en el archivo y pude
> confirmarlo que se trataba de Nemecio = Hererecio porque tenia el nombre de su
> esposa y concuerda tambien con el que tu tienes (Guadalupe Serbantes). El ver tu
> archivo me ayudo a corregir este nombre y punto,, asi como tener conociemiento
> de ti y tus antepasados que no tenia en mi archivo. Hacia atrás, has podido
> ayudarme a tener una generación más pues yo sólo tenía hasta Domingo Apodaca
> y Gertrudis Aniceta Bonal. Me sorprendi de ver los nombres cuando los lei en tu
> archivo pues concordaban perfectamente los nombres y apellidos.
>
> Quisiera saber si tienes los siblings de Nemecio, de Jose Antonio y de Domingo
> Apodaca? Yo tengo algunos de ellos y puedo compartirtelos.
>
> Bueno, pues espero tener noticias tuyas pronto.
>
> ALESSANDRO
> Ser de Luz!!!
> _________________________________________________________________
> Es tu última oportunidad para ganar premios por el simple hecho de buscar en
> internet.
> http://www.ganabuscando.com/Default.aspx
Please read the original message.
ALESSANDRO
Hello everybody:
I see many of you search families in Jalpa, Zac. but I don't find any match with your lastnames, however, as you have been searching in those records, I would like to ask you if you have seen VITELA in Jalpa? My grand-father was born there in 1866 - 68 and his name was Francisco Vitela, his parents were Gorgonio/Aurelio Vitela and Fermina/Emigdia Lopez (I found them with two different names both). It has been difficult to me to find more information. I have read several microfilms and nothing comes up. What I found in IGI were many Vitela from Miguel Auza, Zac. (Mezquital del Oro) but among the many names no-one matches my G-Grand-parents Gorgonio and Fermina. I haven´t been able to relate them. As I found many Vitelas there by the same years (1850-1870) y think they may be relatives, but I haven´t conffirm that.
Alessandro, yes, I have seen Vitela in the Jalpa records. In a message I
sent earlier, I sent a list of the available records of Jalpa thru LDS. Next
Thursday, I will look for the specific years you mention and see if your
grandfather is listed.
Thanks,
Mercedes
**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)
Thank you Mercedes, I´ll appreciate it very much. Keep in touch.
LIC. ALESSANDRO VITELA
Ser de Luz!!!
_________________________________________________________________
Live Search premia tus búsquedas, llévate hasta ¡Un Auto!
http://www.ganabuscando.com/Default.aspx
Hi, Roberto:
Isn't it great to get reorganized? I am doing just that very same thing. I
got bogged down by too much information and not enough organization.
Good to hear you are back with us. My family is also from Los Altos, though
Hi Rick,
Hope all is well in Valle de Guadalupe. I just wanted to follow up and see if
you had an update on the video from the conference down there in August. Drop
me a line when you get a chance. I'm very interested in getting a copy.
Hi John, how are you?
I uploaded the entire conference to youtube but after it uploaded the video
it said that it was too long and youtube won't play it. I'm still trying to
think of a way to share it with everyone. Any ideas?
Rick
Hi Rick:
It is nice to hear from you again, I hope things are going well for you.
The entire conference was pretty long as I recall, maybe too long top put on
YouTube, as you found out. You might want to check with Joseph to find out
if there is a way to upload the conference to Nuestros Ranchos. I know he
has uploaded quite a few things to his site but I am not sure if he has
anything like a long conference recorded.
The conference is pretty long and I am sure that most idividual's personal
e-mail addresses will reject it. Another idea which is not very practical
would be to "burn" the conference on CDs and then either sell them or give
them away to those interested in it. The problem with this idea is that
then you will have shipping problem (cost).
Talk to Joseph, He will probably has a better answer.
Saludos.
J. Gonzalez
=======================================================================================
> Hi John, how are you?
>
> I uploaded the entire conference to youtube but after it uploaded the
> video
> it said that it was too long and youtube won't play it. I'm still trying
> to
> think of a way to share it with everyone. Any ideas?
>
> Rick
Hi Rick,
I know your asking John, but what if you put it in two or three parts?
Sofia> From: rickrod.com@gmail.com> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org> Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 13:25:50 -0500> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Los Altos Conference Video> > Hi John, how are you?> > I uploaded the entire conference to youtube but after it uploaded the video> it said that it was too long and youtube won't play it. I'm still trying to> think of a way to share it with everyone. Any ideas?> > Rick> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
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Re Huizars
I have the following:
Joseph Patrisio Perez de Huizar b. approx 1741 in Colotlan
m. Juana Ynes Bobadilla Romero
Son: Julian de Huizar
m. Maria Catarina Josefa Antonia Fernandez Romero (b. 1796 in Queretaro)
daughters: 1) Maria Fernanda Feliciana Huisar Fernandez (b. approx 1823 in San Luis, Colotlan)
m. Ygnacio Vasquez in 1844 in San Luis, Colotlan
2) Maria Victoriana Huisar (b. about 1825 in Rancho Cartagena, Colotlan, christened in Nuestra Senora Del Rosario, Totatiache, Jalisco)
2 possible marriages 1) m. Jose Rudesindo Gonzales in 1847 in La Encarnacion, Encarnacion de Diaz); or 2) m. Hermenegildo Acosta in 1850 in El Sagrario, Aguascalientes.
Julian's & Maria Catarina's grandson by their elder daughter Maria Fernanda's was Florencio Huisar Vazquez b. abt 1848 in San Luis, Colotlan. He married Natividad Urdian who was born in Rosario, Sinaloa. They had the following children all believed to have born circa 1870: 1) Pedro, 2) Marquita, 3) Nicolaza, and 4) Bernarda b. 1874 and christened 6/28/1874 in San Francisco de Asis , Escuinapa de Hidalgo, Sinaloa.
Bernarda married Eustacio Lopez Zatarain the son of a French Basque soldier (Gorgonio Zatarain) and a Mexican born mother (Angela Lopez). Eustacio was born abt 1871 in Aguascaliente, Sinaloa.
Bernarda & Eustacio had the following children: 1) Guadalupe b. abt 1895 in Duranguito, Sinaloa, 2) Hermenigildo b. 4/13/1896 in Rosario, Sinaloa, 3) Ignacio b. 4/17/1897 in El Rosario, Sinaloa, 4) Jose b. 1898 in Duranguitio, Sinaloa, 5) Mercedes b. 9/24/1903 in Ascensio, Sinaloa, 6) Suzanna b. 1905 in Duranguito, Sinaloa, 7) Ramona b. 1913 in Mazatlan and 8) Felipe de Jesus b. 1915 in Mazatlan.
Felipe was my grandfather.
I hope someone may be able to tie in to my line. (Also, my apologies to Angie Godina since I promised her this info quite a long time ago! Sorry!)
Lori Maurer
San Diego, CA
----- Original Message ----
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:40:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Huizar Surname
Hi Rick, I have him in my records but I am not related. If you go to Rootsweb.com and enter his name it will give you whatever information I have. I do enter my source records if you click on the name. He's in my records because of the Mireles connection, again not related but I track surnames that my families in the District of Jerez married into.
Linda in Everett Wa.
--- On Tue, 9/30/08, Rick Rodriguez wrote:
From: Rick Rodriguez
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Huizar Surname
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 2:03 PM
Hello,
Are any of you related to CANDELARIO HUIZAR GARCIA DE LA CADENA (1883-1970)
from Jerez, Zacatecas
Hey Lori,
No worries...
You make any new progress? I can't remember if I gave you the following information:
Joseph Patrisio Perez de Huizar
Christening:
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/IGI/individual_record.asp?recid=…
Marriage:
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/VR/individual_record.asp?recid=1…
I descend from Joseph Patricio's brother, Joseph Onorato PEREZ DE HUIZAR.
Take Care,
Angie Godina
Amelia, below are the available church and civil records. All you have to do
is request the films from any Family History Center in an LDS church. There
is a nominal charge for each film $6.00 per film. You do not have to be a
I received an e-mail that someone has sent me a message via my
contact form.
How do I use that? When I go to my account all I see is a page to
send an email to myself and no apparent way to change the recipient
and no obvious way to view my messages.
I'm confused.
Also, when I go to recent posts, and click on the MY RECENT POSTS
tab, most of the posts listed are not mine, nor any that I have
replied to.
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com
Stuart,
I was the one that sent you the message via contact form - sorry if I
complicated things. It seems that we share the Padilla heritage. I have more
information on Diego Padilla if you are interested.
-Angelina-
-----Original Message-----
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Stuart
Armstrong
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 6:59 AM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Contact form
I received an e-mail that someone has sent me a message via my contact
form.
Stuart,
Sorry, I got my contacts mixed up - the reason I wrote to you was to let you
know that the link was back up on the book you were looking for - but it
seems that you know that.
-Angelina-
Oral History is welcome in the nuestrosranchos.org group. Many of the
valuable pieces of my family's genealogical information were verified as
a result on following leads gained from tidbits of stories or accounts
Joseph Puentes:
Me parece muy acertado tu comentario, ya que e ocasiones la historia oral, contiene algunos recovecos que se ocultan o simplemente esta en relación al interes que se le de, y tambien por otro lado sabemos que la mayoria de consejas, relatos o por que no decirlo verdades a medias son las que nos han mantenido inmersos en el interes por encontrar la verdad en los hechos y acontecimientos.
No dudo que muchas platicas que nos decian nuestros abuelos contengan cierta base para de ahi iniciar alguna investigación, y lo digo en mi caso que aunque soy principante en la genealogia; me sirvio de mucho el saber minimo a mis bisabuelos, y caso curioso en algunos casos no conocian su edad real, y tambien el nombre no les gustaba o si tenian 2 nombre solo manejaban uno solo y esto se daba tambien en documentos oficiales, y le dare un dato,: mi bisabuelo era conocido unicamente como Juan, y resulta que ni sus hijos sabian que el nombre completo era Juan de Dios, ¿ Que ignorancia?, y así es como la platica oral es una verdad a medias, tambien sucede que algunas personas al hacer referencia de sus ancestros mencionan que eran españoles ( que nacieron en España), y resulta que al ser parientes mios, les menciono que el hecho que se decian españoles o aparecian en los libros como españoles era porque no estaban meztizados, pero les informo que los españoles que llegaron a estas tierras ( Region de los Altos de Jalisco.) muy probablemente llegaron por el siglo XVI o XVII, en la mayoria, significa que ya tenemos de 11 a 13 generaciones naciadas en México.
Sin más de momento y esperando que mi comentario no se tome a mal, sin pensar que no soy español, y si ni criollo, ( descendientes de españoles nacidos en México), y aunque me tez es blanca tambien por mis venas tengo más de una vertiente meztiza.
Ya por terminar, lo que dices Joseph, efectivamente la verdad que se respalda con documentos es la oficial, pero tambien considero valido si se carece de estos respaldos, tomarse en cuenta expresiones que se han trasmitido de generación en generacion.
Saludos a todos.
Saludos a todos. > Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 10:17:02 -0400> From: makas@nc.rr.com> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Oral History Welcome in nuestrosranchos.org> > > Oral History is welcome in the nuestrosranchos.org group. Many of the > valuable pieces of my family's genealogical information were verified as > a result on following leads gained from tidbits of stories or accounts > of family folklore. However I think we should all, as adults, keep a > tight check on our senses and realize that Oral History is something > that is subject to verification and should not be posted as fact. I do > not want any messages sent by a few people to discourage anyone from the > group from sharing their oral history as long as they understand that it > is, "Oral History."> > La Historia Oral esta bienvenida en el grupo nuestrosranchos.org Muchos > de los pedazos valiosos de la información genealógica de mi familia > fueron verificados de resulto de primero estar ganados de cuentas del > folklore de familia. Sin embargo pienso que deberíamos todos, como > adultos, guardar un control apretado en nuestros sentidos y realizar que > la Historia Oral es algo que es sujeto a la verificación y no debería > ser fijado como el hecho. No quiero que ningún mensaje enviado por unas > personas desaliente a alguien del grupo de compartir su historia oral > mientras ellos entienden que es, "Historia Oral."> > joseph> > ====================> > Joseph Puentes> http://h2opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)> http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)> http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)> http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)> http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes > Genealogy)> > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
_________________________________________________________________
Live Search premia tus búsquedas, llévate hasta ¡Un Auto!
http://www.ganabuscando.com/Default.aspx
For a long time I have been accessing the Colmex website to browse and
search
Diccionario Geográfico, Histórico y Biográfico de los Estados Unidos Mexicanos
by García Cubas, Antonio, 1832-1912
But for two weeks now this publication has been unavailable on this
website. I don't understand Spanish very well, so I cannot tell if it
is discontinued, broken, changed, or requires a special subscription.
The address was
http://biblio2.colmex.mx/bibdig/dicc_cubas/base3.htm
I was afraid this would eventually happen. I would like to get my
hands on a hard copy or downloadable copy of this extremely valuable
resource. It is 5 volumes and I would pay good money for a set. But I
have been unable to find it except volume 5 only is offered for sale
on one website.
Can anyone help?
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com
Yes, I agree with everyone here that oral history should never be discounted nor discouraged. My post started as a comment in response to a claim that has long been disproved, and I digressed to share my personal opinion on another matter. My apologies if I came off as uncouth or unfriendly.
Personally I take folklore solely as a "lead" that should be followed upon diligently. For example, my uncle was told that Reynoso and Reynolds share the same surname root. If this is so, then I am related to Burt Reynolds!
I get now that NuestrosRanchos is not a place to share personal opinions or views on sensitive matters.
This past weekend, I spent a glorious encounter with relatives...relatives
that I have not had the pleasure of asking questions before.
Realizing that my discovery is not directly related to the "ranchos" group
of interest... I hesitated in sharing...
But seeing how "ranchos" is the theme...have you ever heard of underground
passages linked from one area (usually churches) to another.?
I had heard this to be true, especially as relates to the Indian raids and
Pancho Villa's visits...but now, there were more than one person(s) that
authenticated these stories...at least to having seen or walked in these tunnels.
Esperanza from chicagoland area
**************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)
Esperanza,
I lived in San Luis Potosí for about 13 years. There, I went to High School and graduated from the university. One of my classes was "Historia de México." My final project consisted of documenting the cultural aspect of the several colonial constructions in the City. I went to various Churches documenting paintings, sculptures and construction styles of several buildings. One of the more interesting churches I found was la Iglesia de San Francisco en la Plaza Aranzazú. Inside the church there is a gate which is usually locked that leads somewhere downstairs. On one rare opportunity I found that this gate was unlocked and coincidently I was gathering info for my final project so I decided take a quick peek down those stairs. Needless to say that I was terrified while walking down those dark stairs and almost lost control of my bowels, I found some interesting things down there. To make a long story short, the stairs led to a crypt. What caught my attention was that there were some openings on the wall that were sealed with several bars, like those found in a jail. Length of these openings are unknown (the dimensions are such that one could comfortably fit and walk in through them - perhaps somewhat crouched). It was too dark to see if they were long enough to be considered tunnels. This is as far as I go with FACTS.
Of course asking here and there led to informal accounts or legends of these "Openings" being used as escape tunnels for "Cristeros" who were politically pursued. Legend has it that all principal Temples are interconnected via these tunnels. I have not seen any proof of this nor do I expect the clergy to advertise something like this, if in fact it was true. Why all the mystery? Well based on the History of México, the catholic church had great influence in the state and historically the church has been involved in the shaping of the country (Remember the legacy of el Cura Hidalgo, or remember where we found several historical records of our family?). The Mexican government recognized this great influence as a threat and promulgated the Separation of the Church and State. Some measures taken by the Government were so radical and unjust that it was perceived that such measures reflected an anticlerical Constitution. This lead to blood shed and a war between Church and the State fought by "Los Cristeros" and the Mexican government.
That said, it is evident that church and government have had a historical grudge on each other. Each side have their reasons. If I were in a pickle liek the Catholic Chuch, would it make sense to advertise my escape route? Maybe not!
Luis
> From: Latina1955@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 22:58:13 -0400> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Oral History Welcome in nuestrosranchos.org> > This past weekend, I spent a glorious encounter with relatives...relatives > that I have not had the pleasure of asking questions before.> > Realizing that my discovery is not directly related to the "ranchos" group > of interest... I hesitated in sharing...> > But seeing how "ranchos" is the theme...have you ever heard of underground > passages linked from one area (usually churches) to another.?> > I had heard this to be true, especially as relates to the Indian raids and > Pancho Villa's visits...but now, there were more than one person(s) that > authenticated these stories...at least to having seen or walked in these tunnels.> > Esperanza from chicagoland area > > > > > > > > **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial > challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and > calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
I'd like to share some oral history that relates to the Cristero Revolution.
My great-grandfather Heladio Robledo Montante was born in San Luis Potosi
in 1880. The Robledo side seems to be from San Luis Potosi for a number of
generations, but more on that later. The Montante family moved back and
forth between there and Mexico City. According to my grandfather they were
newspaper and magazine publishers and operated jewelry stores. He told a
story that when he was five years old ( 1908) his father took him to stay at
his grandfathers hacienda. I don't know which family. He said it took three
days to travel around it on horseback and there were native villages up in
the mountains on it.
My grandfather had light skin and blond hair as a child, his mother
being Scottish-English, but raised in Mexico, where her father worked for
the Mexican National Railroad. While traveling through a remote part of the
mountains, their party was passed by group of native people his grandfather
didn't recognize. Later when they made camp, an even larger group arrived.
Although they had local natives with them, nobody spoke the languague of
this people. They were friendly but insistant on taking my grandfather with
them to their village.
His grandfather feeling he had little choice, let him go with one of his
guides. He remembers traveling for another day, coming to a much larger
village than he had seen before, given a place to sleep, fed, and having
people come to see him and that they would all touch his hair. The next day
they took him back to his grandfather's camp.
Anyone knowledgable about the indigenous people in this area?
He never went back to this area again. We don't know what happened during
the 1909-1913
revolutions, but during the Cristero revolutions things went bad. Heladio
Robledo Montante had been sent to school in the US and was just taking over
the family businesses from his father when they were forced to flee the
country. The family story is the he during street fighting in Mexico City,
he went to one of their jewelry stores, took everything he could carry in a
suitcase and ran for his life. He came to San Antonio, Texas in 1926 and
found work as
a Pullman conductor. From then until he retired in the late 1940s he worked
the Texas to Mexico City line. He then moved to Coyoacan and died there in
1958.
My grandfather said his family said they were originaly from the town of
Villavicsiosa in Asturias, Spain, but never said which family. A few years
ago, I had a Y-DNA test done expecting to find out if the paternal Robledo
line was originally Spanish, Native American,
Jewish, or Arabic in origin. But, instead the results were for Haplogroup O,
which is South
Asian, being most common in southern China, Japan, the Philipines and
Melanesia.
The Philipines are the most likley, as the Manila Galleon trade route ran
from about 1520 to 1821. I have tried working the line in San Luis Potosi
back, but run out at a Jose Maria Robledo born c 1820. His wife was Dolores
Colunga born around 1828. I have placed a Colunga relative in Ojuelos,
Jalisco. I'm trying to find others researching here and if anyone has found
church records mentioning a Filipino origin.
Knowing the Spanish Colonial obsession with racial matters, it's hard to
imagine how someone of Asian origin could end up as Don Jose Maria Robledo,
espanoles, property and business owner.
The DNA experts have determined that no Native population carries this
Haplogroup and that it is unknown in European populations.
Eric Robledo Edgar
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 11:13 PM, José Luis Macías Lebrón <
borinquen_boy@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Esperanza,
>
> I lived in San Luis Potosí for about 13 years. There, I went to High School
> and graduated from the university. One of my classes was "Historia de
> México." My final project consisted of documenting the cultural aspect of
> the several colonial constructions in the City. I went to various Churches
> documenting paintings, sculptures and construction styles of several
> buildings. One of the more interesting churches I found was la Iglesia de
> San Francisco en la Plaza Aranzazú. Inside the church there is a gate which
> is usually locked that leads somewhere downstairs. On one rare opportunity I
> found that this gate was unlocked and coincidently I was gathering info for
> my final project so I decided take a quick peek down those stairs. Needless
> to say that I was terrified while walking down those dark stairs and almost
> lost control of my bowels, I found some interesting things down there. To
> make a long story short, the stairs led to a crypt. What caught my attention
> was that there were some openings on the wall that were sealed with several
> bars, like those found in a jail. Length of these openings are unknown (the
> dimensions are such that one could comfortably fit and walk in through them
> - perhaps somewhat crouched). It was too dark to see if they were long
> enough to be considered tunnels. This is as far as I go with FACTS.
>
> Of course asking here and there led to informal accounts or legends of
> these "Openings" being used as escape tunnels for "Cristeros" who were
> politically pursued. Legend has it that all principal Temples are
> interconnected via these tunnels. I have not seen any proof of this nor do I
> expect the clergy to advertise something like this, if in fact it was true.
> Why all the mystery? Well based on the History of México, the catholic
> church had great influence in the state and historically the church has been
> involved in the shaping of the country (Remember the legacy of el Cura
> Hidalgo, or remember where we found several historical records of our
> family?). The Mexican government recognized this great influence as a threat
> and promulgated the Separation of the Church and State. Some measures taken
> by the Government were so radical and unjust that it was perceived that such
> measures reflected an anticlerical Constitution. This lead to blood shed and
> a war between Church and the State fought by "Los Cristeros" and the
> Mexican government.
>
> That said, it is evident that church and government have had a historical
> grudge on each other. Each side have their reasons. If I were in a pickle
> liek the Catholic Chuch, would it make sense to advertise my escape route?
> Maybe not!
>
> Luis
>
>
>
>
> > From: Latina1955@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 22:58:13 -0400> To:
> research@nuestrosranchos.org> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Oral History
> Welcome in nuestrosranchos.org> > This past weekend, I spent a glorious
> encounter with relatives...relatives > that I have not had the pleasure of
> asking questions before.> > Realizing that my discovery is not directly
> related to the "ranchos" group > of interest... I hesitated in sharing...> >
> But seeing how "ranchos" is the theme...have you ever heard of underground >
> passages linked from one area (usually churches) to another.?> > I had heard
> this to be true, especially as relates to the Indian raids and > Pancho
> Villa's visits...but now, there were more than one person(s) that >
> authenticated these stories...at least to having seen or walked in these
> tunnels.> > Esperanza from chicagoland area > > > > > > > >
> **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial >
> challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips
> and > calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)>
Greetings from Lockhart: Many years ago I read a book (author unknown, dont remember the title) about a woman from San Luis Potosi to whom those from San Luis Potosi resettling in San Antonio Texas would come to for assistance. The book tells about a particular family, their social lives, their flee from San Luis Potosi, and their struggle to readjust in San Antonio, Texas. Your post reminded me of my own grandfather and his immediate family leaving Matehula SLP about 1919. My grandfather, Pedro Alvarado, also worked for the KATY railroad and is in the 1920 census as an employee. He recalled having worked along side Pancho Villa's men in Kansas and in the deep snow. Thanks for sharing your oral history - Anita
Hi Anita ,
Do you by any chance know if your Alvarados went to Coahuila or Nuevo Leon during the late 1700s or early 1800s ?
Welester G. Alvarado
> My grandfather, Pedro Alvarado> > > > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
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Greetings from Lockhart: They started their move around 1900. Some settled in Bustamante NL and Villadame NL, Monterey NL, Nava Coah, and Nuevo Laredo. In research I found another Alvarado family living in NL and would need to do some digging to find those notes. My Alvarado family consisted of parents Doroteo Alvarado and Anastasia Galvan . Their children were Maria Zeferina, Jose Anastasio, Teofila, Martin, Pedro, Juan, Jose Tomas, Benjino, Celectina, Francisco and Gomecinda. I also found a WWI registration, which I have since lost due to my inactive Ancestry.com account, for another Tomas Alvarado from NL. Let me know if anything sounds familar. Anita
--- On Thu, 10/2/08, Lester Alvarado wrote:
> From: Lester Alvarado
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Alvarados' - Anita
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thursday, October 2, 2008, 5:43 PM
> Hi Anita ,
>
> Do you by any chance know if your Alvarados went to
> Coahuila or Nuevo Leon during the late 1700s or early 1800s
> ?
>
> Welester G. Alvarado
>
>
>
>
>
> > My grandfather, Pedro Alvarado> > > > >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --> Nuestros
> Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email
> to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change
> your subscription, log on to:>
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> _________________________________________________________________
> See how Windows Mobile brings your life together—at home,
> work, or on the go.
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Hi Anita ,
So far nothing sounds right , here is what I have on mine :
Candelario Alvarado married for the first time that I know of to a Marica Concepcion Garcia in Villa de Santiago , Nuevo Leon in the year of 1833 .
Ten years later he marries Maria Quirina Saldivar Gomez also in Santiago in the year 1844 .
Candelario is my Great great Grandfather . I don't have his confirmed birth date or his parents names .
In the book by Hector Barbosa of the marriages of Santiago he is listed without parents on his marriages . This usually means that he was a widow so, he may have been married once before he married Ma. Concepcion Garcia .
Another theory is that he came from Saltillo , Coahuila via Galeana Nuevo Leon . In those early days people crossed the mountains from Saltillo over to Santiago .
Galeana is at the lower tip of Nuevo Leon and butts up to San Luis Potosi . I know that there are quite a few Alvarados' from SLP .
People came up north to Coahuila using the RUTA DE PLATA to work on the mines .
Let me know what you think .
Welester
> Greetings from Lockhart: They started their move around 1900. Some settled in Bustamante NL and Villadame NL, Monterey NL, Nava Coah, and Nuevo Laredo. In research I found another Alvarado family living in NL and would need to do some digging to find those notes. My Alvarado family consisted of parents Doroteo Alvarado and Anastasia Galvan . Their children were Maria Zeferina, Jose Anastasio, Teofila, Martin, Pedro, Juan, Jose Tomas, Benjino, Celectina, Francisco and Gomecinda. I also found a WWI registration, which I have since lost due to my inactive Ancestry.com account, for another Tomas Alvarado from NL. Let me know if anything sounds familar. Anita
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Hola Anita,
Unfortunately none of your Alvarados' at present connect to mine .
My info starts at 1833 with my Great great Grandfather Candelario Alvarado . I don't know who his parents were so I don't have his second last name .
What I have is that he was married twice in Villa de Santiago , Nuevo Leon and sadly not much more .
Maybe in the future some of yours will connect to mine . I'll just have to keep on digging .
Thanx ,
Welester
> Greetings from Lockhart: They started their move around 1900. Some settled in Bustamante NL and Villadame NL, Monterey NL, Nava Coah, and Nuevo Laredo. In research I found another Alvarado family living in NL and would need to do some digging to find those notes. My Alvarado family consisted of parents Doroteo Alvarado and Anastasia Galvan . Their children were Maria Zeferina, Jose Anastasio, Teofila, Martin, Pedro, Juan, Jose Tomas, Benjino, Celectina, Francisco and Gomecinda. I also found a WWI registration, which I have since lost due to my inactive Ancestry.com account, for another Tomas Alvarado from NL. Let me know if anything sounds familar. Anita
_________________________________________________________________
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Esperanza,
Interesting that you should mention this! When my grandfather visited last month he happened to mention a cave near Moyahua, Zacatecas. While not exactly an underground passage, he told me that (according to family members)--during the Revolution and Cristero Wars, some of his relatives hid their valuables in that cave. They even went as far as hiding their teenage girls lest they be taken by the bandidos--which apparently did happen, unfortunately.
He mentioned a tunnel as well, but that tunnel-like passage under a water stream--he says--wasn't very long. He remembers playing in it when he was a kid. I can ask the name of the cave and zone/area if anyone is interested.
Esperanza: To find your answer, you must study the history of the town(s) in question during those periods, as well as the specific groups involved (indian tribe/settlers).
A resource for Church stories published during the Revolution is a publication titled Catholic World, they may have written about an underground railroad involving the Catholic Parishes.
Happy hunting.
-C
I have heard about it but have no idea if it is true or not and have never investigated it.
----- Original Message ----
From: "Latina1955@aol.com"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 1, 2008 7:58:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Oral History Welcome in nuestrosranchos.org
This past weekend, I spent a glorious encounter with relatives...relatives
that I have not had the pleasure of asking questions before.
Realizing that my discovery is not directly related to the "ranchos" group
of interest... I hesitated in sharing...
But seeing how "ranchos" is the theme...have you ever heard of underground
passages linked from one area (usually churches) to another.?
I had heard this to be true, especially as relates to the Indian raids and
Pancho Villa's visits...but now, there were more than one person(s) that
authenticated these stories...at least to having seen or walked in these tunnels.
Esperanza from chicagoland area
**************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)
Yo are so right Joseph, oral history is so important for our search, it will support our mission for us, the ones that take this investigation as a mission; sometimes I imagine my self as a night, armour and all, when I want to corroborate some of my family "cuentos", stories.
Oral history may contain matters that are unpleasant for some audiences, but then is the time for our criteria to be of good use and respectfully keep opinions for ourselves if nothing nice can be said.
In my last trip to my parents homeland I learned that my granpa, on my mother´s side stole some corn and that he regreated that action all the rest of his time, I felt his sorrow and shame: also his nephew Bartolo was a common bandido and killer, which is shamefull but instead I kind of admire him, and I know is for the way people use to tell this familiar stories, like he was a hero.
I remember so warmly, gone with the television times, when my mother use to tell stories after supper, mostly about ghosts and family members spirits; oh my poor feet so undefensed under the table and no more light than a candle to season such a cuento! plus it was a rancho where we used to live.
What does it means "there you have my two cents", if it means my coperative part then you, please, have my two cents.
Leticia Leon
--- El mié 1-oct-08, Joseph Puentes escribió:
De:: Joseph Puentes
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Oral History Welcome in nuestrosranchos.org
A: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: miércoles, 1 octubre, 2008, 9:17 am
Oral History is welcome in the nuestrosranchos.org group. Many of the
valuable pieces of my family's genealogical information were verified as
a result on following leads gained from tidbits of stories or accounts
of family folklore. However I think we should all, as adults, keep a
tight check on our senses and realize that Oral History is something
that is subject to verification and should not be posted as fact. I do
not want any messages sent by a few people to discourage anyone from the
group from sharing their oral history as long as they understand that it
is, "Oral History."
La Historia Oral esta bienvenida en el grupo nuestrosranchos.org Muchos
de los pedazos valiosos de la información genealógica de mi familia
fueron verificados de resulto de primero estar ganados de cuentas del
folklore de familia. Sin embargo pienso que deberíamos todos, como
adultos, guardar un control apretado en nuestros sentidos y realizar que
la Historia Oral es algo que es sujeto a la verificación y no debería
ser fijado como el hecho. No quiero que ningún mensaje enviado por unas
personas desaliente a alguien del grupo de compartir su historia oral
mientras ellos entienden que es, "Historia Oral."
joseph
====================
Joseph Puentes
http://h2opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)
Hi everyone,
I'm Roberto Martinez, until recently an inactive member of Nuestros Ranchos for a while. I'm proud to say that I've reorganized myself and have been busy with the family history research these last couple of months. After (more than) a little help from my NuestrosRanchos and months of hard work, I'm proud to announce that my files are updated. At least 95% of my work is focused in Los Altos de Jalisco.
Amelia,
I sent you an e-mail last week. I can help you with all your names below. Call me.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: roots
>
> Searching for my father's family in Jalpa. Surnames: Macias, Tostado, Luna,
Hi there Ruben
Can I stick my nose in here and see if you can help me with any info on the Alvarados . In particular if they travelled northward on the Ruta de Plata ending up in Coahuila or Nuevo Leon .
Welester G. Alvarado > Amelia,> > I sent you an e-mail last week. I can help you with all your names below. Call me.> > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: roots > > > > > Searching for my father's family in Jalpa. Surnames: Macias, Tostado, Luna, > > Alvarado and Marin. Thanks! >
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Thanks Letricia, I will look in the 1930 Mexico census for relatives. I am not having much luck making the right connections with either of my family lines ( Villalobos or Olivars) maybe I am looking in the wrong place.
I agree with you Claudia. Oral history is important and can be an absolute genealogical goldmine of information. Without the little "leads" that my grandparents gave me I'm not sure I would have done as well as I have in my search. While the search of my Spanish/French/Mexican roots on my grandfather's side has been slow going I've gained so many new cousins on my U.S. born "southerner" grandmother's side. After I traced it backwards - and the oral history proved to be a checking point for the records I pulled - to the 1500s I then traced it forward and found lots of new cousins...Cousins I have been able to share photographs both old family photos from the 1800s & 1900s and current ones. It was imazing to be able to see a photograph of my grandmother's great grandmother! And to find grandchildren, great grandchildren & great great grandchildren of my grandmother's long lost aunt. Oral histoy is what ignited my search and helped send me
I haven't been able to cross paths with many of my fellow genealogists in
NuestrosRanchos concerning my family, the Romo de Vivar branch in
Encarnacion and Tepatitlan, Lagos de Moreno and Aguascalientes. But I have
to put in my 2 cents. I have nearly 100-year-old relatives in Guadalajara
who have faulty recollections of the family history. But their memories are
chock full of information and have helped me sort out the family, even
though our family lore had a grandfather with the wrong family last name.
That garbled information allowed me to discover that Nestor was not a Romo,
but was indeed a grandparent on the distaff side, with another last name.
Oral history is critically important when you are researching family names
as common as Romo, because tiny details can help differentiate one family
branch from another. Agreed, they shouldn't become "facts" in the sense of
genealogic research, but they are invaluable clues in our search for truth.
Karr Wolfe Romo (de Vivar)
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Lori Maurer
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:18 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Agreed
I agree with you Claudia. Oral history is important and can be an absolute
genealogical goldmine of information. Without the little "leads" that my
grandparents gave me I'm not sure I would have done as well as I have in my
search. While the search of my Spanish/French/Mexican roots on my
grandfather's side has been slow going I've gained so many new cousins on my
U.S. born "southerner" grandmother's side. After I traced it backwards -
and the oral history proved to be a checking point for the records I pulled
- to the 1500s I then traced it forward and found lots of new
cousins...Cousins I have been able to share photographs both old family
photos from the 1800s & 1900s and current ones. It was imazing to be able
to see a photograph of my grandmother's great grandmother! And to
find grandchildren, great grandchildren & great great grandchildren of my
grandmother's long lost aunt. Oral histoy is what ignited my search and
helped send me
in the right direction when faced with multiple people of the same name.
Occasionally I have chosen wrong - but those few occasions have been minor
in comparison to all the right choices I have made. But I think many of us
recognize that Oral History is very different from Urban Legend and I think
that is what we are truly discussing. Urban Legend can usually be proved as
false by simple fact checking and when we have checked those facts and they
have come up empty we need to have respect as Historians and Genealogists no
matter how amateur and let the Urban Legends go by the wayside without
feeling the need to argue over unargueable facts. I think more unites us
than separates us. We are the ones that carry our family's history
& stories into the next generation!
----- Original Message ----
From: Claudia_Reynoso
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 1, 2008 4:52:24 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Agreed
Yes, I agree with everyone here that oral history should never be discounted
nor discouraged. My post started as a comment in response to a claim that
has long been disproved, and I digressed to share my personal opinion on
another matter. My apologies if I came off as uncouth or unfriendly.
Personally I take folklore solely as a "lead" that should be followed upon
diligently. For example, my uncle was told that Reynoso and Reynolds share
the same surname root. If this is so, then I am related to Burt Reynolds!
I get now that NuestrosRanchos is not a place to share personal opinions or
views on sensitive matters.
Hola a todos, soy nuevo en el grupo y estoy investigando a mis ancestros que vivieron en La Barca, Jalisco
La información que he logrado recopilar se encuentra publicada en http:/castanedadelreal.myheritage.com; de momento la información con la que cuento esta basada solamente en información verbal y en consultas en la base de datos de FamilySearch.
Wednesday, October 1, 2008
Canito--
Una pregunta--donde vive? Si esta cerca de una "Family History Center" puede buscar estas nombres y fechas.
Yo estoy en San Diego pero si conozco a La Barca. Unos nombres de mi esposo son de La Barca pero en otros siglos.
Talvez algo que puede usar es el Censo de 1930. De su casa puede usar este...http://www.familysearchlabs.org/
Despues hablamos.
Sinceremente--
Patricia Burton
San Diego, Ca.
y Santa Rita, Ayotlan, Jalisco
--- On Wed, 10/1/08, Canito wrote:
> From: Canito
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] La Barca Jalisco - Castañeda, Cerda, Briseño, Pantoja
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 12:36 PM
> Hola a todos, soy nuevo en el grupo y estoy investigando a
> mis ancestros que vivieron en La Barca, Jalisco
>
> La información que he logrado recopilar se encuentra
> publicada en http:/castanedadelreal.myheritage.com; de
> momento la información con la que cuento esta basada
> solamente en información verbal y en consultas en la base
> de datos de FamilySearch.
>
> A continuación muestro un extracto de mi investigación:
>
> 4. Moisés Castañeda Briseño nació el 4 Sep. 1915 en
> La Barca, Jalisco5 y murió el 22 Dic. 1998 en Guadalajara,
> Jalisco6. El se casó con María De La Luz Cerda Pantoja el
> 11 May. 1940 en La Barca, Jalisco.
> Padre: 8. Francisco Castañeda Rodríguez nació
> en 1892 en La Barca, Jalisco y murió en una fecha
> desconocida.
> Madre: 9. María De La Luz Briseño Briseño
> nació en 1895 en La Barca, Jalisco y murió el 25 Oct. 1966
> en México, DF7.
>
> 5. María De La Luz Cerda Pantoja nació el 15 Ene. 1923
> en La Barca, Jalisco8 y murió el 6 Oct. 1988 en
> Guadalajara, Jalisco9.
> Padre: 10. Placido Cerda Hernández nació en
> 1891 en La Barca, Jalisco y murió el 26 Ene. 1963 en La
> Barca, Jalisco.
> Madre: 11. Ramona Pantoja Rodríguez nació en La
> Barca, Jalisco y murió el 5 Oct. 1965 en Guadalajara,
> Jalisco10.
>
> 6. Rogelio Beltrán López nació el 16 Sep. 1916 en Cd.
> Obregón, Sonora y murió el 13 Feb. 1999 en Cd. Obregón,
> Sonora. El se casó con Francisca Soto Sepúlveda.
> Padre: 12. Antonio Beltrán Beltrán murió en
> una fecha desconocida.
> Madre: 13. López murió en una fecha
> desconocida.
>
> 7. Francisca Soto Sepúlveda nació el 3 Dic. 1921.
> Padre: 14. Santiago Soto murió en una fecha
> desconocida.
> Madre: 15. Delfina Sepúlveda murió en una fecha
> desconocida.
>
> 8. Francisco Castañeda Rodríguez nació en 1892 en La
> Barca, Jalisco y murió en una fecha desconocida. El se
> casó con María De La Luz Briseño Briseño.
> Otros eventos en la vida de Francisco Castañeda
> Rodríguez
> Bautizo11 5 Abr 1892 La Barca, Jalisco
> Padre: 16. Alberto Castañeda nació en 1856 en
> La Barca, Jalisco y murió en una fecha desconocida.
> Madre: 17. María Rodríguez nació en La Barca,
> Jalisco y murió en una fecha desconocida.
>
> 9. María De La Luz Briseño Briseño nació en 1895 en
> La Barca, Jalisco y murió el 25 Oct. 1966 en México, DF12.
>
> Otros eventos en la vida de María De La Luz Briseño
> Briseño
> Bautizo13 29 Nov 1895 La Barca, Jalisco
> Padre: 18. Trinidad Briceno Cortéz nació en
> 1870 en La Barca, Jalisco y murió en una fecha desconocida.
> Madre: 19. Petronila Briceno González nació en
> 1869 en La Barca, Jalisco y murió en una fecha desconocida.
>
> 10. Placido Cerda Hernández nació en 1891 en La Barca,
> Jalisco y murió el 26 Ene. 1963 en La Barca, Jalisco. El se
> casó con Ramona Pantoja Rodríguez. Otros eventos
> en la vida de Placido Cerda Hernández
> Bautizo14 7 Oct 1891 La Barca, Jalisco
> Padre: 20. Felipe Cerda murió en una fecha
> desconocida.
> Madre: 21. Virginia Hernández murió en una
> fecha desconocida.
>
> 11. Ramona Pantoja Rodríguez nació en La Barca,
> Jalisco y murió el 5 Oct. 1965 en Guadalajara, Jalisco15.
>
> Padre: 22. Pantoja murió en una fecha
> desconocida.
> Madre: 23. Rodríguez murió en una fecha
> desconocida.
>
> 12. Antonio Beltrán Beltrán murió en una fecha
> desconocida. El se casó con 2da López.
>
> 13. López murió en una fecha desconocida.
>
> 14. Santiago Soto murió en una fecha desconocida. El se
> casó con Delfina Sepúlveda.
>
> 15. Delfina Sepúlveda murió en una fecha desconocida.
>
>
> 16. Alberto Castañeda nació en 1856 en La Barca,
> Jalisco y murió en una fecha desconocida. El se casó con
> María Rodríguez el 16 Ago. 1881 en La Barca, Jalisco16.
>
> Otros eventos en la vida de Alberto Castañeda
> Bautizo17 7 Abr 1856 La Barca, Jalisco
> Padre: 24. Francisco Castañeda murió en una
> fecha desconocida.
> Madre: 25. Lucia Davalos murió en una fecha
> desconocida.
>
> 17. María Rodríguez nació en La Barca, Jalisco y
> murió en una fecha desconocida.
>
> 18. Trinidad Briceno Cortéz nació en 1870 en La Barca,
> Jalisco y murió en una fecha desconocida. El se casó con
> Petronila Briceno González.
> Otros eventos en la vida de Trinidad Briceno Cortéz
> Bautizo18 12 Jun 1870 La Barca, Jalisco
> Padre: 26. Ygnacio Briceno Luna nació en La
> Barca, Jalisco y murió en una fecha desconocida.
> Madre: 27. Trinidad Cortéz Padilla murió en una
> fecha desconocida.
>
> 19. Petronila Briceno González nació en 1869 en La
> Barca, Jalisco y murió en una fecha desconocida.
> Otros eventos en la vida de Petronila Briceno González
> Bautizo19 2 Jun 1869 La Barca, Jalisco
> Padre: 28. Juan Briceno murió en una fecha
> desconocida.
> Madre: 29. Pascuala Gonzales López nació en
> 1843 en La Barca, Jalisco y murió en una fecha desconocida.
>
> 20. Felipe Cerda murió en una fecha desconocida. El se
> casó con Virginia Hernández.
>
> 21. Virginia Hernández murió en una fecha desconocida.
>
>
> 22. Pantoja murió en una fecha desconocida. El se casó
> con Rodríguez.
>
> 23. Rodríguez murió en una fecha desconocida.
>
> 24. Francisco Castañeda murió en una fecha
> desconocida. El se casó con Lucia Davalos.
>
> 25. Lucia Davalos murió en una fecha desconocida.
>
> 26. Ygnacio Briceno Luna nació en La Barca, Jalisco y
> murió en una fecha desconocida. El se casó con Trinidad
> Cortéz Padilla, hija de Matias Cortéz y Andrea Padilla, el
> 12 Feb. 1866 en La Barca, Jalisco20.
> Padre: 30. Antonio Briceno murió en una fecha
> desconocida.
> Madre: 31. Pantaleona Luna murió en una fecha
> desconocida.
>
> 27. Trinidad Cortéz Padilla murió en una fecha
> desconocida.
> Padre: 32. Matias Cortéz murió en una fecha
> desconocida.
> Madre: 33. Andrea Padilla murió en una fecha
> desconocida.
>
> 28. Juan Briceno murió en una fecha desconocida. El se
> casó con Pascuala Gonzales López el 6 Jun. 1866 en La
> Barca, Jalisco.
> Padre: 34. Patricio Briceno murió en una fecha
> desconocida.
> Madre: 35. María Guadalupe Corona murió en una
> fecha desconocida.
>
> 29. Pascuala Gonzales López21 nació en 1843 en La
> Barca, Jalisco y murió en una fecha desconocida.
> Otros eventos en la vida de Pascuala Gonzales López
> Bautizo22 28 May 1843 La Barca, Jalisco
> Padre: 36. Antonio Gonzáles murió en una fecha
> desconocida.
> Madre: 37. Lus López murió en una fecha
> desconocida.
>
> 30. Antonio Briceno murió en una fecha desconocida. El
> se casó con Pantaleona Luna.
>
> 31. Pantaleona Luna murió en una fecha desconocida.
>
> 32. Matias Cortéz murió en una fecha desconocida. El
> se casó con Andrea Padilla.
>
> 33. Andrea Padilla murió en una fecha desconocida.
>
> 34. Patricio Briceno murió en una fecha desconocida. El
> se casó con María Guadalupe Corona.
>
> 35. María Guadalupe Corona murió en una fecha
> desconocida.
>
> 36. Antonio Gonzáles murió en una fecha desconocida.
> El se casó con Lus López.
>
> 37. Lus López murió en una fecha desconocida.
>
> Saludos !!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
Hola Patricia
Gracias por tus comentarios, en realidad mucha de la informacion que tengo fue obtenida utilizando los recursos de FamilySearch, sin embargo mucha de la informacion no esta indexada.
En realidad vivo muy cerca de un Family Center History, desgraciadamente mi horario de trabajo me hace imposible consultarlo; mi intención es recolectar toda la información posible mediante internet y después solicitar unos dias de vacaciones para reforzar mi investigación con documentos de Family Center History y de la Mitra de Guadalajara.
Actualmente estoy digitalizando documentos (actas de nacimiento, fe de bautizmo, actas de matrimonio) de mis familiares vivos y me preguntaba si sería posible obtener copias digitales de la información encontrada en los Centros de Historia.
This goes to anyone that can help me help someone else .
Some of you may know or have heard of the famous Sisters ( Nuns ) who are the caretakers of just about all the really old books from the state of Nuevo Leon , Mexico .
Welester, please contact me with the sisters and I want to help them, maybe I´m not an expert but I give all the information can be prooved in the registers... my e-mail siriuslr@hotmail.com I'm not an Historian but I have time to looking for and 8 years of experience..Could you send to me the names and places..dates.. please Leticia Reynoso.
_________________________________________________________________
P.D. Live Search tiene una sorpresa buenísima, chécala aquí.
http://www.ganabuscando.com/Default.aspx
Hola Leticia ,
Thanks for the help , the truth is that Hermana Rosario does not use the internet she is at the archivos every week Tuesday to Thursday from 9:30 am to 1:30 and the rest of the time she is doing what the church tells her to do .
She has very little information on both her mother and fathers side . I did some look ups for her these pass few days and found her grandparents . Let me show you what I found in Cienega de Mata , Ojuelos , Jalisco
Guadalupe Urzua her father
Jesus Urzua and Petra Lopez her parents they married on 14 Nov 1883 in Cienega de Mata , Ojuelos Jalisco
Vidal Urzua and Agapita de la Cruz her grandparents
Bacilio Lopez and Casimira Rangel parents of Petra Lopez
She has no marraige records for her grandfather or her great grandfather .
She has no records of any kind for Petras parents .
Any info will be appreciated . Herer is Hermanas phone number the archivos :
In Monterrey , Mexico : 11 58 25 75
Welester
> > Welester, please contact me with the sisters and I want to help them, maybe I´m not an expert but I give all the information can be prooved in the registers... my e-mail siriuslr@hotmail.com I'm not an Historian but I have time to looking for and 8 years of experience..Could you send to me the names and places..dates.. please Leticia Reynoso.>
_________________________________________________________________
Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/
Thank you Welester, let's work..Leticia R.
_________________________________________________________________
P.D. Checa las nuevas fotos de mi Space
http://home.services.spaces.live.com/
Wow, I googled it and got many hits. Thanks....perhaps it was misspelled.
Mercedes
**************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
Thanks I will check it out as well. I guess there can be variations to
surnames. Misspellings, etc. Thanks Emilie
**************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)
I glanced at the entries regarding the whole Thomas Edison debate and I couldn't go to bed without imparting my two cents.
I think that in this day and age--and with the information available to us--we must stop perpetrating unproved myths and folklore. At the very minimum for the sake of the credibility of our own hard work and efforts in researching our past.
Claudia,
To you I say "BRAVO". I am in complete concert with your entire post and it is past time someone said what you have said. I can go weeks without checking Nuestros (such as now) and when I come back I can count on reading more claims of nobility, hacendados, royalty, sangre pura, or conversely, direct decendency from Aztec chieftans. My all time favorite is the posting by the "fantasma" who claims he has traced his genealogy " all the way back to Adam and Eve"!
MIchael Bravo
--- On Sat, 9/27/08, Claudia_Reynoso wrote:
From: Claudia_Reynoso
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Wishful thinking Vs. Reality
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, September 27, 2008, 12:18 AM
I glanced at the entries regarding the whole Thomas Edison debate and I
couldn't go to bed without imparting my two cents.
I think that in this day and age--and with the information available to us--we
must stop perpetrating unproved myths and folklore. At the very minimum for the
sake of the credibility of our own hard work and efforts in researching our
past.
Isn't it amazing that with a few minutes of Internet time, Emilie was able
to debunk what may have been a story repeated for possibly decades? Thank you
Emilie for taking the time to set matters straight!
I am verbalizing what I am sure some of you feel when reading posts about
so-and-so being related to someone powerful and famous. Someone who may have
been the illegitimate child of Royalty... or whose G-G-G-G-Grandfather owned the
entire Pueblo of XYZ.
Let's get real. Most of us doing research in this area (Jalisco,
Zacatecas, Aguascalientes) descend from immigrants to the New World who came
from Europe out of their need for a better life. An opportunity to improve what
they abandoned back home. Not Discounting the mixture of indigenous folks, of
course. The facts are that the vast majority of our ancestors were immigrants
who labored and toiled the lands to sustain themselves and (at least in my case)
left a legacy of hard work ethic, family values and self respect -- no matter
your station in life.
Why can't we be satisfied with owning our own legacy as it is? The
legacies that our (proven) blood relatives left us without wishing and hoping
that we carry the blood of someone we deem (in our short-sightedness) "more
important" than the people in our Genfiles?
Just a rant. Forgive me if I ruffled some feathers.
I could talk about this but I cant I will be depicted a misunderstanding manner. :(
I can't seem to find anyone alive with this last name. This was my
greatgrandmother's maiden name.
Thanks
Mercedes
**************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
I think this name is Portuguese, and there is one Luis Chumaseiro in Mexico. He belongs to the Yahoo Group "unicom99", a university group. You have to sign up for Yahoo Groups in order to join this group and contact him.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: MecheChavez@aol.com
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 8:06 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Chumasero - Does anyone have any information onthis last name?
I can't seem to find anyone alive with this last name. This was my
greatgrandmother's maiden name.
Thanks
Mercedes
**************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)
Genealogia-Mexico@googlegroups.com
research@nuestrosranchos.org
Hola Amigos Genealogistas:
El principal motivo del presente e-mail, es consultar con ustedes,
principalmente con Benicio Samuel como experto en ADN lo siguiente:
Hola Amigos Genealogistas:
El principal motivo del presente e-mail, es consultar con ustedes,
principalmente con Benicio Samuel como experto en ADN lo siguiente:
Hace unos dias recibi un e-mail del siguiente sitio: http://www.genetree.com
Hello everyone, my name is José Luis Macías and I am looking for relatives, lots of them! I am drawn to this website, probably for the same reason you all are; I am trying to find out where I come from and in the process bridge the gap between the Macias' that are scattered out there. I’m just starting out on my investigation and so far my attempts to locate family or find out more about my past have been unsuccessful, so all advice is very welcome! I am trying to get a hold of my grandparent’s birth and marriage certificates which means that soon I will have more accurate information to post. For now, this is what I have. Should we find we have common ancestors, I will be more than happy to share more information regarding recent generations. Thank you all for reading; I hope you have something to share.
Descendants of Macias in Jalisco, México
## Generation No. 1
1. ¿? Macías was born around 1886 in Tenamaxtlán Jalisco. He married my GG Grandmother ?? Lucas probably around 1900
I've seen Chamacuero...
------Original Message------
From: MecheChavez@aol.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research
ReplyTo: research
Sent: Sep 29, 2008 10:06 PM
I remembered this surname from a poet, he was Alí Chumacero, write this name in your search engine and for sure you´ll have somenthing about.
Hope it helps, Leticia Leon
--- El lun 29-sep-08, sandragomezmendoza@yahoo.com escribió:
De:: sandragomezmendoza@yahoo.com
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Chumasero - Does anyone have any information onthis last name?
A: "research"
Fecha: lunes, 29 septiembre, 2008, 10:37 pm
I've seen Chamacuero...
------Original Message------
From: MecheChavez@aol.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research
ReplyTo: research
Sent: Sep 29, 2008 10:06 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Chumasero - Does anyone have any information onthis
last name?
I can't seem to find anyone alive with this last name. This was my
greatgrandmother's maiden name.
Thanks
Mercedes
**************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)
Cano