Many in the group have already complied, but many have not. If you've
already submitted your genealogy just relax. . .you're a life member of
the Nuestros Ranchos group.
For those that haven't submitted their work I get a little nervous when
Hi there Josie ,
I did a quick serch in www.familysearch.org and found 58 Liendos in Coahuila ..... 22 in Tamaulipas ..... 10 in Jalisco , also note that I found 0 in Zacatecas and 0 in Aguascaliente .
Hi Welester!
Thanks for the info! Believe me, I have checked everything I can think of
on this elusive couple and I now believe I will have to just look at all the
film for that time period in Zacatecas. I just need to make the time to do
this! :-) Last year I was in Salt Lake City at the FHC and had them help
me.....no results~! I even found the name "LIENDO" spelled as "SIENDO" and
found that some of the records I already had researched were listed as
"SIENDO" because the transcribers misread the "L" for an "S" and made the
name "SIENDO"......which is not a name. I will probably find them where I
least expect .......I just wish they would quit hiding from me! :-)
Josie in San Antonio
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Lester
Alvarado
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 5:13 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] "Padrsn de poblacisn de
Aguascalientes",compiled in 1792 by Felix Calleja
Hi there Josie ,
I did a quick serch in www.familysearch.org and found 58 Liendos in Coahuila
..... 22 in Tamaulipas ..... 10 in Jalisco , also note that I found 0 in
Zacatecas and 0 in Aguascaliente .
This does'nt mean that there aren't any in those states , like I said it was
a quick search . If you want enter into the site clik on the International
Genealogical Index , then clik on region ( Mexico ) clik on the state (
whichever you prefer ) .
Now , go to where it says First Name and put an asterisk * and where it says
Last Name , put Liendo . Hope this helps alittle .
Welester
Josie,
There are some Lendos listed in the IGI (in Coahuila, Durango, San Luis Potosi).
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Josie T. Trevino
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] "Padrsn de poblacisn de Aguascalientes",compiled in 1792 by Felix Calleja
Hi Welester!
Thanks for the info! Believe me, I have checked everything I can think of
on this elusive couple and I now believe I will have to just look at all the
film for that time period in Zacatecas. I just need to make the time to do
this! :-) Last year I was in Salt Lake City at the FHC and had them help
me.....no results~! I even found the name "LIENDO" spelled as "SIENDO" and
found that some of the records I already had researched were listed as
"SIENDO" because the transcribers misread the "L" for an "S" and made the
name "SIENDO"......which is not a name. I will probably find them where I
least expect .......I just wish they would quit hiding from me! :-)
Josie in San Antonio
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Lester
Alvarado
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 5:13 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] "Padrsn de poblacisn de
Aguascalientes",compiled in 1792 by Felix Calleja
Hi there Josie ,
I did a quick serch in www.familysearch.org and found 58 Liendos in Coahuila
..... 22 in Tamaulipas ..... 10 in Jalisco , also note that I found 0 in
Zacatecas and 0 in Aguascaliente .
This does'nt mean that there aren't any in those states , like I said it was
a quick search . If you want enter into the site clik on the International
Genealogical Index , then clik on region ( Mexico ) clik on the state (
whichever you prefer ) .
Now , go to where it says First Name and put an asterisk * and where it says
Last Name , put Liendo . Hope this helps alittle .
Welester
Hi Emilie!
Thanks for the info......I have already researched all these that you and
Welester Alvarado mention and they are all AFTER the late 1600s to early
1700s time period that I am looking for. Most of these in Coahuila are the
offspring of my elusive ancestor.......Juan Antonio Liendo who was born in
Zacatecas most probably in the late 1600s to the very early 1700s. He is the
one that keeps hiding from me......but I won't give up! :-)
Josie in San Antonio
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Emilie
Garcia
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 6:31 AM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] "Padrsn de poblacisn de
Aguascalientes",compiled in 1792 by Felix Calleja
Josie,
There are some Lendos listed in the IGI (in Coahuila, Durango, San Luis
Potosi).
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---
I was looking for my grandmother's civil birth record on microfilm for the
Guadalajara District, because my mother had said her mother was born in
Guadalajara on May 25th, 1907. However, I didn't find my grandmother's
Hi:
You are righ Guadalajara is a city and a County (Municipio)
Guadalajara, in the colony was the capitol of "Nueva Galicia" and after
the Independece "Nueva Galicia" change the name to Jalisco with
Guadalajara as Capitol.
May be your grandmother born in a nearest town to Guadalajara.
The nearest countys to Guadalajara are:
Zapopan, Tlaquepaque and Tonala.
May be possible in some of those cities can have the information that
you are looking.
Have a nice day!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org]On Behalf Of Corrine
Ardoin
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 4:45 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Guadalajara District/City Limits
I was looking for my grandmother's civil birth record on microfilm for
the
Guadalajara District, because my mother had said her mother was born in
Guadalajara on May 25th, 1907. However, I didn't find my grandmother's
birth record. My mother said that her mother's family, Alberto and
Francisca Martin del Campo, lived on a farm in Guadalajara and that was
where her mother was born. So, I just got my Jalisco map in the mail
and I
have been checking for a listing of the municipios in Jalisco and see
that
Guadalajara is both a city and a district, or municipio, all in itself.
Am
I understanding that correctly? Like in California, San Francisco is
both a
city and a county. So, now I'm thinking that, if they lived on a farm a
hundred years ago, that farm may not even be there anymore. It may now
be
city. What I'm wondering is if cities in Mexico have city limits, like
they
do here and, if so, I'm wondering if the Guadalajara city limits have
been
expanded as the city has grown. What I'm trying to determine is that
the
reason my grandmother's birth record was not in the Guadalajara district
civil registry, is perhaps because even though they lived "in
Guadalajara,"
it may have been in another district, at least back in 1907 when my
grandmother was born. Would anyone know about this? My mother is going
to
call her aunt to ask where the family farm was, but she may not know
about
any boundary changes that may have occurred. I hope all of this makes
sense, basically I'm trying to determine which district my grandmother
was
born in, so I can then order the microfilm for that one and, hopefully,
find
her birth record in it.
Corrine Ardoin
Hi!
After reading these two messages regarding "city limits" (in these cases it
was Guadalajara) I have been unable to find a birth or marriage record for
one of my ancestors in Zacatecas. His will dated 1771 states he was
"originario de la Ciudad de Nuestra Senora de Zacatecas" so I understand
this to mean he was born in the CITY of Zacatecas. Would there have been
"city limits" in 1771 in Zacatecas? I am now thinking that he may have been
born in the area around the city of Zacatecas but I have no idea which towns
existed there in 1771.
Does anyone know what towns or counties existed in or near Zacatecas in
1771?
Thanks!
Josie in San Antonio
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Damasco,
Raul
You are righ Guadalajara is a city and a County (Municipio) Guadalajara, in
the colony was the capitol of "Nueva Galicia" and after the Independece
"Nueva Galicia" change the name to Jalisco with Guadalajara as Capitol.
May be your grandmother born in a nearest town to Guadalajara.
The nearest countys to Guadalajara are:
Zapopan, Tlaquepaque and Tonala.
May be possible in some of those cities can have the information that you
are looking.
-----Original Message-----
I was looking for my grandmother's civil birth record on microfilm for the
Guadalajara District, because my mother had said her mother was born in
Guadalajara on May 25th, 1907. However, I didn't find my grandmother's
birth record. My mother said that her mother's family, Alberto and
Francisca Martin del Campo, lived on a farm in Guadalajara and that was
where her mother was born. So, I just got my Jalisco map in the mail and I
have been checking for a listing of the municipios in Jalisco and see that
Guadalajara is both a city and a district, or municipio, all in itself.
Am
I understanding that correctly?
Corrine Ardoin
Corrine:
Mexican municipal jurisdiccions are different than American ones. Each municipio is basically the equivalent of a county in the United States, such that it includes the actual city or town which is the "cabezera" or head of the municipality as well as all of the rural areas around it within certain boundaries.
Large municipios also have one or more comisarias which are basically smaller towns where government functions such as civil registries can be transacted.
In the case of your grandmother, there are a number of possibilities... One being that when your mother says "Guadalajara" she actually means somewhere in the metro area, which includes several muncipalities, which Raul has outlined above. The other is that you are looking in the film of the wrong registry office. Often each comisaria keeps its records seperate from other comisarias in the same municipality.
If you could find the exact name of the neighborhood where your grandmother was born we can probably find the correct municipality or comisaria or even parish where she should have been baptized. Do you have her parents' names by any chance?
My grandmother was Magdalena Martin del Campo. Her parents were Alberto Martin del Campo and Francisca Cabral Gonzalez, both of whom were buried in Guadalajara. Alberto's funeral was at Nuestra Santa Madre Iglesia Catolica in Guadalajara, 1941. My mother said that they lived on their farm until they died.
I had never heard of comisarias before. The confusion, too, is that my grandmother, from the minute she was born, was handed over to her aunt to be raised in the city, so she may have been baptized in the metro area of Guadalajara, though born in the rural outskirts. She told my mother very little about herself and, now, we are relying on her one living sister to get information from.
Thank-you for all the help.
Corrine
My mother asked her aunt if she could remember where her family lived in Guadalajara and her aunt told her that they had moved several times, but the nearest town was Zapopan and that they walked everywhere, that it was about five miles to the Cathedral in Guadalajara and that they went to church at San Felipe Church. So, I ordered the microfilm records for the Zapopan municipio civil registry. Hopefully, I will find my grandmother's birth record at last.
I had also been looking in the Guadalajara municipio civil registry for my grandmother's and grandfather's marriage record, with no luck, as well. My mom's aunt said that they did not marry until after my mother was born, so that's helpful to know. My mother was born in 1931 in Guadalajara, but now I know it was probably not the Guadalajara municipio, but the Zapopan municipio, because her mother gave birth to her at the family's home, which I now know was near Zapopan.
It's funny how family members say they don't remember much, but when you get them to talking about something, they'll relate another thing they remember that was just what you needed to know. Like my mom, I've been asking her if her grandfather Alberto Martin del Campo and his sister, Dolores, "Lola," had any other siblings and she says she doesn't know. Just the other day, she was telling me that my neice was going to have twins and I asked her if anyone of our ancestors had twins and she said right off the bat, "Oh, my great aunt Lola was a twin." I just think, mom, why didn't you tell me that before?! So, that is something else I have to add to my small storehouse of information when I research my ancestors in Guadalajara.
Corrine Ardoin
I SAW THE NAME MARTIN del CAMPO. I WOULD ALSO LIKE INFORMATION ON SIMONA del CAMPO,
WHO MARRIED GABRIEL CAVAZOS, THEY WERE BOTH BORN IN SPAIN AND BOTH DIED IN SPAIN.
THE GENERATION AFTER THAT WAS BORN IN SPAIN ALSO, BUT CAME TO NEW SPAIN, HIS NAME
WAS JUAN CAVAZOS del CAMPO. I HAVE HIS DESCENDANCY, BUT NO CONCRETE INFORMATION ON HIS PARENTS.
JUANITA G. DELGADO
Corrine Ardoin wrote:
My mother asked her aunt if she could remember where her family lived in Guadalajara and her aunt told her that they had moved several times, but the nearest town was Zapopan and that they walked everywhere, that it was about five miles to the Cathedral in Guadalajara and that they went to church at San Felipe Church. So, I ordered the microfilm records for the Zapopan municipio civil registry. Hopefully, I will find my grandmother's birth record at last.
I had also been looking in the Guadalajara municipio civil registry for my grandmother's and grandfather's marriage record, with no luck, as well. My mom's aunt said that they did not marry until after my mother was born, so that's helpful to know. My mother was born in 1931 in Guadalajara, but now I know it was probably not the Guadalajara municipio, but the Zapopan municipio, because her mother gave birth to her at the family's home, which I now know was near Zapopan.
It's funny how family members say they don't remember much, but when you get them to talking about something, they'll relate another thing they remember that was just what you needed to know. Like my mom, I've been asking her if her grandfather Alberto Martin del Campo and his sister, Dolores, "Lola," had any other siblings and she says she doesn't know. Just the other day, she was telling me that my neice was going to have twins and I asked her if anyone of our ancestors had twins and she said right off the bat, "Oh, my great aunt Lola was a twin." I just think, mom, why didn't you tell me that before?! So, that is something else I have to add to my small storehouse of information when I research my ancestors in Guadalajara.
Corrine Ardoin
How do you sign on? I can't seem to get past the form to be filled
out. It doesn't like my address or phone number nor my
identification. What should I be putting there?
Linda Romero
On Sep 4, 2006, at 3:29 PM, research-
Linda,
I received the registration instructions from Ed Elizondo who is charge of the Cuba Genweb. Some years ago, there was a posting on the net through Genweb (I thought it was Cuba) that had the instructions. Ed has posted the new instructions at his site and here it is:
Registering
The Spanish Ministry of Culture requires the user to register before using the AER. Yo do this by clicking on the link titled "ALTA DE USUARIO". You will then be presented with a screen which we cannot reproduce here due to copyright restrictions.
Note that fields marked with an * must be filled in.
Starting at the upper left and reading line by line left to right, the meaning of the various fields are the following:
Identification Data (outer box with dark brown label)
Personal Data (inner box with light brown label)
Type of user (radio buttons) *
Personal
Institutional
Name *
Surname 1 *
Surname 2 (mandatory only for Spanish citizens)
Nationality (drop down list) *
Spain (default)
Estados Unidos de America (USA)
(others not reproduced here)
e-mail
Profession (drop down list) *
Unknown (default)
Type of identification document (drop down list) *
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passport
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others
Identification document *
Residence Data (inner box with light brown label)
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Bottom action buttons:
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Footnotes:
The data collected by this web site will be used for the purpose, in the form and with the limits and rights in accordance with Organic Law 15/1999, for the Protection of Personal Data.
The fields marked with "*" are mandatory.
The second surname is mandatory only for users of Spanish nationality.
Rose Gonzales-Hardy
Hello Everyone,
my name is Marty and I am researching for my ancestry in the vicinity of the city/town of Fresillo in Zacatecas, Mexico... I am very intrested in the Sur-names of:
Arroyo
Villasana
Hernandez
Huizar
If anyone has any of these Sur-names in their ancestry I would like to hear from you.
Marty
Hi Marty,
I am also researching Fresnillo. I am looking for my grandfather Luis Zavala who was born there.
I found a baptism I thought was him but I can't be positive it is him. I am trying to find his marriage
records in Durango. His wife Vicenta Zamora was born in Mapimi, Durango about 1875 supossedly and my grandmother Maria Zavala was born around Lerdo/Torreon about 1897. I haven't been successful
finding their records.
--
Esther A. Herold
-------------- Original message from "Marty" : --------------
> Hello Everyone,
> my name is Marty and I am researching for my ancestry in the vicinity of the
> city/town of Fresillo in Zacatecas, Mexico... I am very intrested in the
> Sur-names of:
> Arroyo
> Villasana
> Hernandez
> Huizar
>
> If anyone has any of these Sur-names in their ancestry I would like to hear from
> you.
>
> Marty
Hey Marty,
Welcome to the group. I am researching Huizar also.
Except that my Huizar family are from Colotlan and
Totatiche in Jalisco. It's not that far from
Fresnillo, I think...
Do you have any specific names? I can look them up
and see if I have any relatives with those names.
Take a look at my files if you are interested.
Angie Godina
--- Marty wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> my name is Marty and I am researching for my
> ancestry in the vicinity of the city/town of
> Fresillo in Zacatecas, Mexico... I am very intrested
> in the Sur-names of:
> Arroyo
> Villasana
> Hernandez
> Huizar
>
> If anyone has any of these Sur-names in their
> ancestry I would like to hear from you.
>
> Marty
____________________________________________________________________________________
Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.
Hi Corrine ,
My name is Welester G. Alvarado and Im trying to trace my family from Villa de Santiago Nuevo Leon back through Saltillo , Coahuila to Zacatecas . Any way the reason for this mail is to share with you a common thing in those times . My family starting with my father and going backwards were all white with blue or grey violete eyes and blond hair . This was I suppose the spanish in them . A lot of the mixed or mistizos alos had these looks .
Where in Zacatecas did you find you Liendos? What given names?
--
Esther A. Herold
-------------- Original message from "Josie T. Trevino" : --------------
> Hi Bill!
My ancestor's testamento states he was "originario de Zacatecas" and that is
why I am assuming he was from the city of Zacatecas. It is very possible he
was from the area around Zacatecas (city) and that is why I am having such a
difficult time locating info on him. His name was Juan Antonio Liendo and
he married Catalina de la Rosa probably in the late 1600s. Their son (also
named Juan Antonio Liendo) left his will dated 1771 in Saltillo where he
states he was from Zacatecas. I have researched Liendos from the early
1700s to the present and (from what I have researched and documented) they
all descend from this couple. There are a few Liendos that were in Autlan de
Navarro, Jalisco, a few in Durango and a few from Distrito Federal (Mexico
City) but the majority will be found in Saltillo and Tamaulipas. There are
also a lot of Liendos in Peru, Bolivia, Argentina, Venezuela, Chile and
Spain. It is possible that my ancestor "got off the boat in Mexico" or
traveled from one of these other countries to get to Zacatecas and then went
to Saltillo and on to Tamaulipas and into Texas.
I have a friend in Aguascalientes who told me she has seen the surname in
Morelia and Michoacan so I will see what I can find there. Since the name
is a rare one I keep any and all info I find on ANY document pertaining to a
Liendo.
Any assistance is appreciated!
Josie in San Antonio
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
eaherold@att.net
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 11:23 AM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] "Padrsn de poblacisn de Aguascalientes",
compiled in 1792 by Felix Calleja
Where in Zacatecas did you find you Liendos? What given names?
--
Esther A. Herold
Sorry, folks,
this bounced the first time I tried to send it.
----- Original Message -----
From: Emilie Garcia
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
I worked at translating the story of "Hacienda de la Yegua Rusa" and this is what I came up with:
"A boy was abandoned on the steps of the "Hacienda de la Yegua Rusa" with very fine gowns in a small basket, and the boy had on a medal and very fine gowns and a note pinned, on which it said: this boy has already been baptized and his name is Martin, I ask that you never remove the medal for the rest of his life.
The owners of the Hacienda were people already great in age and never had family (and possibly they thought that was the right place for the boy to grow up and if they wanted to be able to find him when he was grown).
The boy grew and the families and the environment around him knew that the boy was not a descendant of the owners of the "Hacienda de la Yegua Rusa," so they began to say to the boy or to identify him when they spoke of him: "There goes Martin," and when they were asked which Martin, they simply identified him as "Martin, del campo" (of the Yegua Rusa), since the Hacienda was situated in an area that was big and surrounded by the beautiful countryside.
This boy supposed that he was some accident of the royal family since he was white, fair-haired and blue-eyed and the gown was of very fine material and French lace, but accidents in families of high standing weren't considered good in those times, so the children were disowned and kept secret or given away but always had a pin to be able to give some day with the sons.
This is the story of Martin del campo."
Corrine Ardoin
Hi Corrine:
That is a very interesting story about "Martin del Campo". Do you know
where the Hacienda de La Yegua Rusa" was/is located? was it in Spain or
Mexico?
John Gonzalez
Wildomar, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Corrine Ardoin"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 9:23 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation of Legend of the Yegua Rusa
>
> I worked at translating the story of "Hacienda de la Yegua Rusa" and this
> is what I came up with....
Thank you so much for the story! How do you find GeneaNet? Is that it? I've never heard of that.
Corrine Ardoin
Arturo,
Could you please translate this story into English for those who aren't that proficient in Spanish? Also, I have a question: In the story, the lady says that the French invaded Lagos de Moreno around the 1700s. Is that true? I thought the French invasion occurred in the middle of the 1800's after the Spanish were kicked out, no? I am so confused by people saying that their ancestors were from France, including my own father, now deceased, who told me that his great-great grandfather was called "El Frances" and had blue eyes. My research shows that his ancestors lived in Salitrillo, Tepetongo, Zacatecas for hundreds of years, and the only white people mentioned were "espanol" and the surnames are Spanish, not French, except for his own surname which is Basque (Olague). I keep thinking that because the most recent European invaders had been French in my g-g-grandfather's time, the people just thought that all white, blue-eyed people there were "French".
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ----
----- Original Message -----
From: Emilie Garcia
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:49 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Fw: Legend of Hacienda de Yegua Rusa (in Spanish)
Sorry, folks,
this bounced the first time I tried to send it.
----- Original Message -----
From: Emilie Garcia>
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:40 PM
Subject: Legend of Hacienda de Yegua Rusa (in Spanish)
Corrine and Maria Elena,
Here is the story from a GeaNet posting.
Emilie
Date:
September 5, 2005 06:40PM
Frank te esta hablando tu tia Graciela .
Me ha dado mucho gusto encontrarte y yo te digo que la historia que yo tengo es asi :
( Esto sucedio al rededor de los anos de la inbacion Francesa, al rededor de l700....... )
Un nino fue abandonado en las puestas de la "Hacienda de la Yegua Rusa" con ropages muy finos en una canastilla ,
y el nino llevaba puesta una medalla y ropages muy finos y prendida una nota , en la cual decia:
este nino ya ha sido bautizado y se llama Martin, ruego que no se la quiten la medalla en el trascurso de su vida.
Los duenos de la Hacienda ya eran personas grandes de edad y nunca tubieron familia
( y posiblemente creyeron que era la parte adecuada para que el nino creciera y quisas pudieran reconocerlo cuando El creciera. )
El nino crecio y las familias y el medio ambiente que les rodeaban, sabian que el nino no era decendiente de los duenos de la" HACIENDA DE LA YEGUA RUSA," asi que al nino le empesaron a decir o identificar cuando hablaban de El ; " ahi va Martin, y cuando se preguntaban que Martin, facil lo identificaban con" Martin, del campo" ( de la yegua rusa), ya que la Haciebnda estaba cituada en una area que era grande y le rodeaba la belleza del campo .
Ese nino se supone que fue algun deslis de la fam. real ya que el nino era blanco, rubio y de ojos azules y el ropaje era de telas muy finas y encajes franceses , pero como no era bien visto en eos tiempos los deslices en las familias de alto rango asi que los ninos los desconocian a los ignoraban escondiendolos o regalandolos pero siempre habia una clave para poder dar algun dia con los hijos.
Esta es la historia de los Martin del campo .
Parese que la Hacienda famosa estaba situada en Lagos de Moreno, Jal., mas no me consta , pero yo tambien he investigado a cerca del origen de nuestro apeido y esta historia he encontrado. En Lagos de Moreno ,Jal. se construyo un puente que tiene una inscripcion que dice asi:" Este puente fue construido en Lagos y se pasa por arriba". Es curioso porque en aquellos tiempos las personas cominaban apie en burro o a caballo puesto que todo era cercano y a la orilla del pueblo habia un rio pero solo en tiempo de lluvias se llenaba de agua, asi que muy pocas personas eran las que crusaban el puente , se les hacia mas facil crusarse el arroyuelo a pie que ir a dar la vuelta hasta donde estaba el puente.
Este comentario te lo hago porque las personas pudientes de aquellos tiempos solian hacer sus fincas en un lugar alto y serca de un rio para proteger su sitio. y me parecio el mas adecuado porque parece ser que ahi fue la cuna de los Martin del campo, ya que era la parte mas acercada entre Mexaico y Guadalajara .
Frank espero estes bien y siempre los recuerdo saludos a tu esposa y los ninos y saludame a tu papa haber si se acuerda de mi.
I worked at translating the whole message that had been posted earlier and
there were additional bits of information that may be of interest to those
researching the Martin del Campos in regards to Lagos de Moreno. At the end
I have been in search of my husband's grandparents birth and marriage records. I recently found them on a Valle de Guadalupe baptism of Jose 1/15/1906, son of Juan de Alva and Trinidad Jauregui. Trinidad was my husband's maternal great aunt.
Have you checked for Alvizu or other spelling variants Albizu. This surname is of Vasque origin.
Yes, thanks. There are many variants of the name and I try to include them
all in the searches. Even turning off the "exact search" will not produce
some of the creative spellings of this name. I received a response from the
LDS, but it was more like tough luck, the latter part of 1865 was
overlooked. She suggested the civil registries and so true as I have not
looked at the civil registries yet, but I will after the holidays.
Maureen
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of topete
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 9:11 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Julian alviso 1865
Have you checked for Alvizu or other spelling variants Albizu. This surname
is of Vasque origin.
I just noticed that the film J603298 source 0279429 has only the 1st quarter of 1865. They do not have any records listed from June 1865 to December 1865. I do not know what kind of an answer I will get, but I sent a message to the LDS.
This Saturday, my husband Ramon and I will be flying
to Guadalajara. After a couple of days visiting with
family, we will head out to the Atotonilco el Alto
area of Jalisco. We have many relatives in the
El listado y la reproducción electrónica de los testamentos históricos, se
puede obtener haciendo enlace con "pipo957@hotmail.com. mx" ó
"pipo957@hotmail.com"
_________________________________________________________________
I'd like to hear from anyone who might have info on this family. I believe that Victor must have been the son of Charles Francis Delmas - am I right? Below is all I know.
Victor Delmas married Concepcion Sandoval about 22 June 1868 in El Sagrario or Santo Domingo, Zacatecas, Zacatecas, Mexico. Two daughters are known: Ma. Soledad, christened (same place as above) 27 March 1869; and Ma. Guadalupe, christened 12 June 1871. Soledad married David Diaz de Leon 16 February 1885 (same place as above).
What information did you find when you looked at the film for Soledad?
Didn't it list the grandparents? How about for Guadalupe?:
MA. SOLEDAD DELMAS SANDOVAL
Female
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
27 MAR 1869 El Sagrario Or Santo Domingo, Zacatecas, Zacatecas, Mexico
Death:
Burial:
Parents:
Father: VICTOR DELMAS Family
Mother: CONCEPN. SANDOVAL
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the
record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the
birth or christening date.
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type:
Printout Call No.: Type:
C600788 1870 - 1871 0245040
Suzy Burt wrote:
> I'd like to hear from anyone who might have info on this family. I believe that Victor must have been the son of Charles Francis Delmas - am I right? Below is all I know.
>
> Victor Delmas married Concepcion Sandoval about 22 June 1868 in El Sagrario or Santo Domingo, Zacatecas, Zacatecas, Mexico. Two daughters are known: Ma. Soledad, christened (same place as above) 27 March 1869; and Ma. Guadalupe, christened 12 June 1871. Soledad married David Diaz de Leon 16 February 1885 (same place as above).
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~
> Suzy B. Burt
> ~~~~~~~~~~~
Hopefully leading to the Victor Delmas family in Zacatecas, I can document
the lineage of Charles Francis or Carlos Francisco Delmas of San Carlos,
Tamaulipas, Mexico back to France. Generation 1 - Francois Pierre Delmas,
born circa 1674 in France; generation 2 - Francois Delmas born 21 Feb. 1711
in France; generation 3 - Pierre Francois Louis Delmas born 1751 in Nantes,
France; generation 4 - Francois Aime Delmas born 15 Sept. 1787 in St.
Domingue; generation 5 - Charles Francois Delmas (Charles Francis/Carlos
Francisco) born 14 Aug. 1810 in Harford County, Maryland.
I'll order some LDS films and see if I can come up with anything else on
Victor or any other Delmas in Mexico.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Suzy B. Burt
~~~~~~~~~~~
Suzy:
The only way to find out is to order the film (0245111) and see who the parents are. It is too bad that they did not extract the parents into the IGI for that film.
There are Delmas much closer to Zacatecas than Tamaulipas in Durango that may be the ancestors of this Victor:
JOSE FELIPE BENICIO DELMAS VILLANUEVA
Christening: 28 AUG 1842 Santiago Papasquiaro, Santiago Papasquiaro, Durango, Mexico
Parents:
Father: JUAN ANTO. DELMAS Family
Mother: PULINA VILLANUEVA
Batch No. C605212 Film 0654999
Delmas is a Catalan name... I have a good friend whose family has a pipe factory in Granollers in Calaunya.
Marge, Juanita,
My genealogy is already in gedcom files on this website under Esther Herold. My gedcom only goes to Diego Trevino and Francisca Alcocer.
Marge and Juanita, have you uploaded a gedcom of your Trevino/Velasco family to this website?
esther herold,
No, I do not have any of my information ond a gedcom. I am a novice in computer technology and am missisng out on a lot that is going on out there with you savvy people. I am practically teaching myself, which is not that great. I have not had formal education on computer literacy.
Thereis a question on the relationship between the Trevinos and the Banuelos. Here is what I have:
ALCAIDE DIEGO VELASCO TREVINO married FRANCISCA ALCOZER, who was born in SPAIN in 1500.
Her parents were HERNANDO BANUELOS and BEATRIZ ISABEL ALCOZER. FRANCISCA used her
mother's maiden name only, like many did.
juanita delgado
eaherold@att.net wrote:
Marge, Juanita,
My genealogy is already in gedcom files on this website under Esther Herold. My gedcom only goes to Diego Trevino and Francisca Alcocer.
Marge and Juanita, have you uploaded a gedcom of your Trevino/Velasco family to this website?
Thanks,
--
Esther A. Herold
-------------- Original message from Joseph Puentes : --------------
> but don't put it in an email to the list.
>
> either:
>
> 1) gedcom it to the group via the gedcom section
> 2) put a report in your folder
> 3) email it to her privately
>
> joseph
>
> ===================
>
> Joseph Puentes
> http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
> http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)
>
>
>
> M. Vallazza wrote:
> > I'm interested in seeing your information, if you don't mind. Thanks.
> > Marge:)
> > On Dec 8, 2006, at 12:27 PM, juanita delgado wrote:
> >
> >
> >> my family tree traces DIEGO de TREVINO, back 7. yes, 7 generations 2
> >> generations before 1384.All the generations have a surname of VELASC0.
> >>
> >> Just thought it might interest you, though you might have this
> >> information already.
> >>
> >> eaherold@att.net wrote:
> >> Again my source is John Inclan. I am inclined to believe that is a
> >> myth also. All I know that has been
> >> verified from records in Jalisco is that Francisca Alcocer died there
> >> and that the Banuelos families and the Trevinos are part of the same
> >> family.
> >>
> >> Marge, could you share your information that convinced you that the
> >> connection to Bernardino Fernandez Velasco is a myth? Inclan mentioned
> >> a lot of books which I have been tr ying to get on interlibrary loan.
> >> THese books deal with early colonists in Mexico.I still think there
> >> are worthwhile looking at. He mentioned books at various sites where
> >> he has been posting the Trevino lineage.
> >>
> >> Also many people list Lenor Ayala as the mother of Ana Trevino the
> >> daughter of Jose Trevino.
> >> According to a recent paper by the archivist of General Escobedo that
> >> came out earlier in the year, Ana Trevino was illegitimate. She was
> >> born in Zacatecas. There is no mention of who her mother really is.
> >> The article is posted on the General Escobedo site. This means I have
> >> to continue my search as I am also descended from the Saens.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> --
> >> Esther A. Herold
> >>
> >>
> >> -------------- Original message from "M. Vallazza" : --------------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> It's a myth that Diego Trevino is descended from Bernardino Fernandez
> >>> Velasco. I once thought that he was, too! But when I went searching
> >>> for verification, it appears that he isn't. I'm a descendant of Diego
> >>> and Francisca so I was interested. Where did you get your info about
> >>> Francisca Alcocer being descended from Henry II and Eleanor of
> >>> Aquitaine? I'd love to know. Marge :)
> >>> On Dec 2, 2006, at 10:32 AM, eaherold@att.net wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Are the Banauelos related tothe Trevinos way back in the 1500s? Some
> >>>> children of Diego Tevino and
> >>>> Francisca Alcocer took Trevino and others Banuelos? I think Francisca
> >>>> Alcocer died in Guadalajara in mid 1500s. SOme of her sons moved to
> >>>> Zacatecas city. Diego Trevino, the son for one. Children of
> >>>> DIego Trevino the son, Jose Trevino and his wife Lenor Ayala for one
> >>>> moved on to Monterrey around 1600. I am looking for veriffication of
> >>>> parentage of Diego Trevino, Sr and his wife Francisca Alcocer.
> >>>> John Inclan claims Diego Trevino decends from the Bernardino
> >>>> Fernandez
> >>>> Velasco, 3rd count Haro.
> >>>> Francisca Alcocer is said to descend from Henery II and Eleanor of
> >>>> Acquitiane through daughter Eleanor.
> >>>> --
> >>>> Esther A. Herold
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -------------- Original message from rosa9972
> >>>> : --------------
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi Linda and Joseph--
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yes, Linda, your aunt is related to me and Joseph through the
> >>>>> Banuelos family.
> >>>>> I have her ancestry for some generations back. I collect as much
> >>>>> information
> >>>>> on the Banuelos and related families of Huejucar, Jalisco. I'll
> >>>>> email
> >>>>> you off
> >>>>> the group so we can exchange information.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So far I have your aunt as my 3rd cousin once removed, and Joseph as
> >>>>> her 5th
> >>>>> cousin once removed. Almost all of the Banuelos from Huejucar are
> >>>>> related and
> >>>>> are from Rancho Las Bocas.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Rosalinda
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: Joseph Puentes
> >>>>> Sent: Dec 1, 2006 6:22 PM
> >>>>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> >>>>> Cc: "Rosalinda M. Ruiz"
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Banuelos and Quesada in Huejucar
> >>>>> Jalisco
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Rosalinda. . .Rosalinda,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Looks like some more cousins. Rosalinda and I are Bañuelos and she
> >>>>> is a
> >>>>> Quesada. probably we'll tie into your Aunt's family (our cousins).
> >>>>> Rosalinda will know for sure.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> joseph
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ===================
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Joseph Puentes
> >>>>> http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
> >>>>> http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> longsjourney wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm not familiar with the town of Huejucar Jalisco but my Aunt
> >>>>>> who's
> >>>>>> family is
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> from there has asked if I could find anything on her families there.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Her parents were Salvador Banuelos and Emma Madrid no dates but
> >>>>>> approx. 1900
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> in Huejucar
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Salvadors parent Issac Banuelos and Teodora or Todora Flores abt
> >>>>>> 1875
> >>>>>> Teodora Flores's parents were Marcos Flores and Andrea Sandoval
> >>>>>> married 19 Feb
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> 1867 in Huejucar
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Salvadors parents were Santos Banuelos and Leonides Quesada married
> >>>>>> 20 April
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> 1871 in Huejucar.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I've found children for these parents but no parents for Santos
> >>>>>> Banuelos or
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Leonides Quesada. My Aunt was told that Santos father was Francisco
> >>>>> Banuelos
> >>>>> from Spain but I've found nothing to prove that. Is anyone working
> >>>>> any of these
> >>>>> lines from Huejucar Jalisco Mexico?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks, Linda in Everett
> >>>>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >>>>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> To post, send email to:
> >>>>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >>>>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >>>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To post, send email to:
> >>>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >>>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >>>>>
> >>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>>>
> >>>> To post, send email to:
> >>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>>>
> >>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >>>>
> >>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>>
> >>> To post, send email to:
> >>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>>
> >>> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >>>
> >> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>
> >> To post, send email to:
> >> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------
> >> Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
> >> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>
> >> To post, send email to:
> >> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> >
> >
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: ACTION REQUIRED TODAY : LATINO MUSEUM COMMISSION BILL
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:54:42 -0500 (EST)
From: MIMILOZANO@aol.com
To: MIMILOZANO@aol.com
http://educacion.jalisco.gob.mx/dependen/Cedetec/Softwareeduc/sfthistor…
--
Saludos desde Guadalajara:
Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez
A number of members have written about their member genealogies folders going missing after updating them. I apologize for the glitch. It appears that due to a change we made to the site when file folders were being updated, they were being taken out of the "Member Genealogy" category and therefore no longer appearing in the file folder listing. However, the folders are still all there and we have restored those of which we have been made aware we have to their correct place. We have also fixed the glitch so this should no longer happen in the future.
Arturo,
When you say being updated does that mean that you or some other administrator was doing the updating or that we personally were updating our own folders? The reason I ask is that I have not updated my folder since the beginning of the year and mine file was one that had temporarily disappeared a couple of weeks ago.
Here's wishing you a wonderful trip to our beautiful Mexico........warts and all Mexico and it's people are still beautiful.
Atentamente,
Alicia de San Jose, Calif
----- Original Message ----
From: arturoramos arturo.ramos2@gmail.com
A number of members have written about their member genealogies folders going missing after updating them. I apologize for the glitch. It appears that due to a change we made to the site when file folders were being updated, they were being taken out of the "Member Genealogy" category and therefore no longer appearing in the file folder listing. However, the folders are still all there and we have restored those of which we have been made aware we have to their correct place. We have also fixed the glitch so this should no longer happen in the future.
If you updated your file folder in the last couple of months, please check the Member Genealogies section to make sure that it still appears there. If it does not, please send us a message at moderator (at) nuestrosranchos.org
=====
Algunos miembros nos han escrito para decirnos que sus carpetas de genealogia se habian desaparecido despues de actualizarlas. Mil disculpas por este molestar. Parece que despues de hacer unos cambios al sitio hace un par de meses, cuando un miembro actualizaba su carpeta, el sistema sacaba la carpeta de la categoria de "Genalogias de Miembros" y asi no aparecia mas en el listado de carpetas. Sin embargo, esas carpetas seguian existiendo y las hemos restaurado a su sitio correcto cuando nos han alertado a esta occurencia. Tambien hemos arreglado el problema tecnico para que ya no ocurra esto en el futuro.
Si actualizaste tu carpeta en los ultimos dos meses, por favor revisa el listado de Genalogia de Miembros para asegurar que aparece aun ahi tu carpeta. Si no esta, por favor avisanos a traves de un mensaje a moderator (at) nuestrosranchos.org
THE LINK BELOW IS FAULTY. HERE IS THE CORRECT LINK:
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/romero
I'm sorry for the inconvenience.
Linda Romero
On Dec 5, 2006, at 8:58 PM, Linda R Romero wrote:
If you are a Non Profit or know some worth organization that is a non
profit please forward this along. I wish Nuestra Familia Unida was (well
maybe I wish that) or the http://H2Opodcast.com project:
Un saludo a todos los compañeros del grupo. Mi nombre es Guillermo Figueroa Strecker. Soy nuevo en NuestrosRanchos, aunque ya tengo varios años de venir trabajando en mi genealogía. Siguiendo la línea que va de mi tatarabuela María del Refugio Ruiz de Esparza hasta llegar a Lope Ruiz de Esparza (uno de los primeros pobladores de Aguascalientes) he llegado a familiarizarme con un gran número de personas que vivieron no solo en Aguascalientes, sino en muchos otros pueblos y villas de los Altos de Jalisco y Zacatecas. Todas ellas figuran en mi base de datos, que cuenta con más de 5,000 personas. Como todos sabemos, Aguascalientes ocupó un lugar estratégico en el "Camino de la Plata" durante los siglos 17 y 18, ya que quedaba en la ruta por la que se transportaba ese precioso metal desde las minas de Zacatecas hasta la capital del reino. Empezé buscando a los padres de mi tatarabuela María del Refugio Ruiz de Esparza, y poco a poco fuí encontrando a sus abuelos, bisabuelos
Bill,
I have added to my genealogy file research complied on my Salado/Esparza line, with research documentation dating back to 1585.
Rose Gonzales-Hardy
Rose,
I would love to get some of the information you have on the Sallado/Ruiz de Esparza connection. What I have is a Bernardo Salado who married Juana Fernández Vaulus, aka Juana de Siordia. This is not the Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza (aka Bernardo Salado) married to Catalina Lozano. However, since Juana de Siordia was the daughter of Pedro Fernández de Vaulus and María Gabai de Moctezuma (aka María de Siordia) she was also the first-cousin of Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza.
A daughter of Bernardo Salado and Juana de Siordia, Bernarda Salado de Siordia, married Gaspar de Aguilar; and their daughter Juana de Aguilar Salado married Hernán Flores de la Torre, el encomendero de Juchipila.
I got this information from another genealogy researcher a few years ago. Unfortunately, he made some wrong assumptions which I rather not mention in this column. Does this agree with the information you have?
Bill Figueroa
Thanks for your input, Tony. Interesting observation. Although the word "salado" in Spanish means "salty" and could refer to people who worked at salt mines, the alias "Salado" given to Bernardo and some of his descendants was probably not from that origin but from the well known Salado surname used in Spain before the discovery of America. Maybe in the early days it referred to an occupation, but I don't believe this is the case with Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza. He was a well known landowner and cattle rancher who inherited land from his father and passed it on to his descendants. As far as I know, there were no salt mines in Aguascalientes.
I believe the alias "Salado" came from a well known or distinguished
gentleman in Nueva Galicia, but I can only find a Bernardo Salado married to Joana de Siordia as the only "true" Salado at that time. Joana was Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza's first cousin, so Bernardo Salado was indirectly related to Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza through the marriage to his cousin. I have asked historian Mariano Gonzales Leal for his input on this subject, but so far I have not heard from him.
Like yourself, I am also a descendant of Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza and Luis Tiscareño de Molina. Actually, I am a descendant of Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza & Catalina Lozano, Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza and Luis Tiscareño de Molina, and María Ruiz de Esparza and Nicolás de Ulloa. All three lines tied at different points through intermarriage in the family (distant cousins).
Thanks again for your input. Regards,
Bill Figueroa
----- Original Message -----
From: "tony cobos"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Salado/Esparza
Bill, my Spanish isn't so hot but is it possible that "Salado" in these
instances may refer to "salt" in some way? could salt miners be referred to as "salados"? just a wild thought but I have seen sometimnes in my research that a first name would be used and the then what appears to be last name could actually be the occupation or other description of the person. Normally, its not that obvious but I agree that Bernardo "Salado" appears to be a mystery. I too tie into the Ruiz de Eparza line (through the Molina/Tiscareno lines).
Hi Bill:
You are correct in your definition of "Salado" but I would also like to add
my two cents worth to your "SALADO" definition...In Mexico "Un salado" is a
person who is down and out, who can't do anything right, nothing works for
him, no matter how hard he tries to get ahead, he has bad luck, people avoid
him...In other words a looser. Sorry if that is not what you expected or
wanted to hear but that is very common use of the word in Mexico.
John Gonzalez
Wildomar, CA.
1gnzlz@verizon.net
===========================================================================================================================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Figueroa"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 9:37 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Salado/Esparza
>
> Thanks for your input, Tony. Interesting observation. Although the word
> "salado" in Spanish means "salty" and could refer to people who worked at
> salt mines, the alias "Salado" given to Bernardo and some of his
> descendants was probably not from that origin but from the well known
> Salado surname used in Spain before the discovery of America. Maybe in
> the early days it referred to an occupation, but I don't believe this is
> the case with Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza. He was a well known landowner and
> cattle rancher who inherited land from his father and passed it on to his
> descendants. As far as I know, there were no salt mines in
> Aguascalientes....
Hi John,
Ja-ja-ja. That is funny, John. I know that the word salado is sometimes
used to describe a person who is cursed or down on his luck (ese cuate está
salado). I don't think the alias "Salado" was used in that sense for
Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza, especially considering that it is found in church
and civil records not only for him but for his sons and daughters, even for
some of his grandchildren. It would be an insult to call someone "salado"
on any type of written record, don't you think?
Rgds,
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Gonzalez" <1gnzlz@verizon.net>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Salado/Esparza
> Hi Bill:
>
> You are correct in your definition of "Salado" but I would also like to
> add
> my two cents worth to your "SALADO" definition...In Mexico "Un salado" is
> a
> person who is down and out, who can't do anything right, nothing works for
> him, no matter how hard he tries to get ahead, he has bad luck, people
> avoid
> him...In other words a looser. Sorry if that is not what you expected or
> wanted to hear but that is very common use of the word in Mexico.
>
> John Gonzalez
> Wildomar, CA.
> 1gnzlz@verizon.net
>
> ===========================================================================================================================================
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Figueroa"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 9:37 AM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Salado/Esparza
>
>
>>
>> Thanks for your input, Tony. Interesting observation. Although the word
>> "salado" in Spanish means "salty" and could refer to people who worked at
>> salt mines, the alias "Salado" given to Bernardo and some of his
>> descendants was probably not from that origin but from the well known
>> Salado surname used in Spain before the discovery of America. Maybe in
>> the early days it referred to an occupation, but I don't believe this is
>> the case with Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza. He was a well known landowner
>> and
>> cattle rancher who inherited land from his father and passed it on to his
>> descendants. As far as I know, there were no salt mines in
>> Aguascalientes....
>
Maureen,
To say that you know Julian was born in San Miguel is a little optimistic, he may or may not have been born in San Miguel. I have found for example for one individual when his children were born and it will say he was from a certain place such as La Estancia and in the birth of one of his other children it will say he was from Tlachichila and the birth of another child will say Monte de Duranes. Take that as a lead but until you find proof you can surmise or guess that he was born in San Miguel.
Dear Alicia:
Thank you. I have researched baptisms for San Miguel from 1838 to 1895. I have found Julian's siblings. I have his parent's marriage and the age of his mother when she married. I calculated her childbearing years. She had a child every one or two years. There is only a 1 year gap 1856 to 1858 and also 1865. I subtracted wrong, so the above date of 1856 to 1858 is not the correct gap. It is 1865 as he was 40 years old listed on a baptism in 1905 where he was a sponsor. All his siblings were born in San Miguel. I have just looked again at the 1865 batch for San Miguel. Sadly I have found that the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarter for 1865 are not on the microfilm. Also from my records that I had printed when I went through the microfilm by hand do not have any 1865 records from June to December. I have contacted the LDS to find out if they know why those records were missing. I need another document to conclude Julian's age, but I feel 1865 is probably the one.
Alicia,
You are absolutely right! I have been unable to find my own mother's birth or baptismal records. She never had any documentation, all her0 life she believed she was born in Aguascalientes. When she was about 50, we all piled into the car and went about finding long lost family. We found an aunt in Aguascalientes and she told my mom that she was actually born in Villa Garcia, Zacatecas! Well, I've searched Villa Garcia microfilm, and she's not listed on or near her birthday. Needless to say, I currently await microfilm on Aguascalientes and hope for the best. Good luck! Alice BB
--- alliecar@pacbell.net wrote:
From: Alicia Carrillo
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Julian Alviso born 1856 to 1858
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 20:08:57 -0800 (PST)
Maureen,
To say that you know Julian was born in San Miguel is a little optimistic, he may or may not have been born in San Miguel. I have found for example for one individual when his children were born and it will say he was from a certain place such as La Estancia and in the birth of one of his other children it will say he was from Tlachichila and the birth of another child will say Monte de Duranes. Take that as a lead but until you find proof you can surmise or guess that he was born in San Miguel.
One other detail is the supposed age. I have one ancestor who had several children and with each child the age listed for him remained the same. My take on that is always to calculate +/- 10 years of age from the age listed in the document. You may have to order the films for San Miguel for the years before 1862 and after 1870.
Take it as a possibility that he was born in San Miguel and then again maybe not. After 3 years of searching for the birth or baptism of my father in-law, I still have not found a birth or baptismal document.
Good Luck,
Alicia in San Jose, Calif
Julian Alviso born 1856 to 1858
I have been in search of my husband's grandparents birth and marriage records. I recently found them on a Valle de Guadalupe baptism of Jose 1/15/1906, son of Juan de Alva and Trinidad Jauregui. Trinidad was my husband's maternal great aunt. It listed Julian Alviso as 40 years old and from San Miguel and Catarina Jaurequi as 28 years old, but I could not read her place of origin. I was unable to print a copy yet as the printing machine in the history center has been out of service. Hopefully when I am able to print a copy, I will be able to read Catarina place of origin with the help of a magnifying glass. Well on with my question. I now know that Julian was born approximately 1865 in San Miguel. The problem is I have gone through the microfilm batch J603298 and Source # 0279429 for San Miguel 1862-1870. I had ordered the film and went though the records by hand individually. There is no Julian Alviso. Julian has a total of six brothers and sisters and all of
them
were ba
ptized at San Miguel El Alto. I have found his sibling's records, but no Julian. I know that Julian and Catarina exist as I have found five of their children and they are listed as sponsors on other baptisms. This is becoming very frustrating. My question is if possibly the microfilm is not a complete record? Also, was there another church in the vicinity of San Miguel El Alto that possibly Julian may have been baptized? Any suggestions on my next step?
Dear Alicia:
Thank you. I have checked all the baptisms is San Miguel from 1838 to 1895. Sadly none of the children's baptism listed the age of Julian or Catarina. I know his approximate death, but did not find his death in Valle de Guadalupe. I have found Catarina's age in two different baptisms when she was a sponsor, so I think her age may be correct. I know Julian's mothers age at marriage and calculated her childbearing years. She had a baby every one or two years. There are only two gaps where Julian could have been born, so I am thinking the 1865 year is correct. Sadly the microfilm is mising the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters of 1865, so this is why I may not be able to find Julian.
My children and I lived in Tijuana for two years so my six children
(ages 1 to 12 when we arrived) could learn Spanish and be immersed in the
culture of their father's side of the family. (My husband came to visit us
There is no doubt you need to use precautions in Mexico.. just as you would any where else including stateside. When we took the bus from Guadajara to Jerez Zacatecas I asked why the roads had been clear-cut back so far and the bus driver said it's because bandits rob the bus's sometimes and this way they have a running chance!
When we got to Tamazula Jalisco and tried to visit a Mendez relative who didn't know me he was extremely fearful of us. When we returned we found he had been kidnapped for ransom, he's family owns casas de cambio so that made him a target.
In Jerez everyone was drinking bottled water much to my surprise, they said the iron content is so high it stains their teeth! Mostly they drank Coka-Cola in glass bottles. They would not allow me to walk anywhere alone but said it was because it would reflect badly on my family! I did find that all the families I visited drank alcohol much more and earlier in the day than we would stateside so beware of long lunches that extend into dinner. Tequila and Sprit seem to be a normal afternoon beverage in Jalisco, Colima and Zacatecas!
When we went to a Cabana in Tapalpa, a couple of hours from Guadalajara we were told not to worry,. that they pay someone to protect the property and people when they visit there, it seems that cutting down and stealing trees is a big problem there and our hostess got guards after finding 20 pines missing just after she bought the property to build her home on.
Advice that was given to me was not to wear jewelry, not to go where there were no women and children and not to go drinking at night. I found in Mexico many places do not take credit cards so you really do need to have cash on hand or access to casa de cambio. I payed attention to all advice and had a wonderful time with many very gracious people. Come to think of it, it's the same advice friends gave me the first time we spent a vacation in the L.A. area...
Linda in Everett
Deena,
I enjoyed reading of your experience in Tijuana...........the stories on the news always sound worse than they really are. The same could be said about the US from the Mexican's point of view. When we go to Mexico you hear stories from the people who have never lived or been to the US about the lack of respect for authority in the United States, about the breakdown of the family because most women work and therefore the children are left to fend for themselves without a figurehead of respect and authority in the home during the day. One also hears about the breakdown in the morality of the family and the promiscuity of the youth, the rampant drug use of the young people etc. etc. I could go on and on. This they hear from the news as portrayed in the US media.........they get the same news there that we get here via CNN and other major newsbroadcasters via cable and from hearsay from people traveling back and forth. Is there some truth here? I would say yes. Is this the
whole truth? No, we can pick anything apart and find good and evil, right and wrong everywhere.
The truth is that crime is everywhere and we need to be careful everywhere. Of course be especially careful when you travel to some unknown region whether it be in the US, Mexico or elsewhere, respect the rules and laws of the country, city or county you are visiting. Respect the customs and traditions of it's people.
When my in-laws were alive we would go to Ensenada at least 3 times a year so that our children could have as much possible contact with their grandparents and the extended family.............It was a time of complete freedom for our children as they could go anywhere without any fear. They could run and play freely at their grandparents and cousins' places, ride horses, feed the chickens make mud pies, pick corn, tomatoes, squash and so much more. They learned of the language, foods, music and family traditions of their parents and grandparents and nothing you can read in a book could ever take the place of the real life experience.
Anyone who is thinking of going....... I say go for it, the warmth of the people especially in the small towns is like nothing else you will ever experience. Yes even the border crossing was an experience.........going both ways.
Thanks for posting this topic.....it brought back many fond memories.
Alicia,
San Jose, Calif
My children and I lived in Tijuana for two years so my six children
(ages 1 to 12 when we arrived) could learn Spanish and be immersed in the
culture of their father's side of the family. (My husband came to visit us
two weekends every month; at the time he was a homicide investigator with
our local sheriff's department, and there's no such thing as a two-year
sabbatical -- even if we could have afforded it.)
I read the bulletin posted earlier about the dangers of traveling in
certain parts of Mexico, and Tijuana was listed as a place with a high rate
of crime. We lived near the bullring in Fraccionamiento Escondida; it was
the most wonderful experience of our lives, and the only crime we
experienced was that a sweatshirt hanging on the line to dry disappeared.
Meanwhile, the bicycles we had left in America for safekeeping were stolen.
I always bought bottled water to drink-- still do, as a matter of
fact, but we brushed our teeth from the tap. None of us was ever sick
during our stay -- except for the two littlest ones, who got chicken pox
near the end of our stay.
My mother-in-law worried the entire time that something horrible
would happen, however. Luckily, we ignored her warnings. I say ignore your
relatives, and take a chance. It will be an adventure you'll never forget.
~Deena Ortiz~
Thanks for your input, Deena. Thirty years ago when I was working on my graduate degree in pre-colombian art history, a university sanctioned trip to the sites in mesoamerica was cancelled. A friend and I went on own to Yucatan, Guatemala, and Oaxaca, and had the time of our lives. Yes, even then, we actually did experience a minor political incident in Oaxaca, but all's well that ends well. My family and friends' concern didn't stop me from visiting then, as it didn't last June, when I took my son to Yucatan. Although my family is from Mexico, and as a child we took yearly trips into the interior "a conocer", they can't help but express their well-meant concern. Yes, then and now, we always drank bottled water. Take care. Alice B. Blake
--- drortiz@charter.net wrote:
From: "Deena Ortiz"
To:
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] OT: Re:Trip to Jalisco and Zacatecas - I drink the water in Mexico
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 12:18:24 -0800
My children and I lived in Tijuana for two years so my six children
(ages 1 to 12 when we arrived) could learn Spanish and be immersed in the
culture of their father's side of the family. (My husband came to visit us
two weekends every month; at the time he was a homicide investigator with
our local sheriff's department, and there's no such thing as a two-year
sabbatical -- even if we could have afforded it.)
I read the bulletin posted earlier about the dangers of traveling in
certain parts of Mexico, and Tijuana was listed as a place with a high rate
of crime. We lived near the bullring in Fraccionamiento Escondida; it was
the most wonderful experience of our lives, and the only crime we
experienced was that a sweatshirt hanging on the line to dry disappeared.
Meanwhile, the bicycles we had left in America for safekeeping were stolen.
I always bought bottled water to drink-- still do, as a matter of
fact, but we brushed our teeth from the tap. None of us was ever sick
during our stay -- except for the two littlest ones, who got chicken pox
near the end of our stay.
My mother-in-law worried the entire time that something horrible
would happen, however. Luckily, we ignored her warnings. I say ignore your
relatives, and take a chance. It will be an adventure you'll never forget.
~Deena Ortiz~
I will be heading down to Mexico again in a week. I will be there for a whole week, but a large part of it will be consumed with wedding details of a close cousin of mine.
However, if there is something that someone wants for me to take down or bring back that will not be too cumbersome or troublesome I would be more than glad to oblige. I will be in Guadalajara and my grandparents' town of Villa Guerrero, Jalisco which is very close to Tlaltenango, Zacatecas.
Arturo
Have a great time....wish I were going! Be careful!
Mickey
-----Original Message-----
From: arturo.ramos2@gmail.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 1:00 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Trip to Jalisco and Zacatecas
I will be heading down to Mexico again in a week. I will be there for a whole
week, but a large part of it will be consumed with wedding details of a close
cousin of mine.
However, if there is something that someone wants for me to take down or bring
back that will not be too cumbersome or troublesome I would be more than glad to
oblige. I will be in Guadalajara and my grandparents' town of Villa Guerrero,
Jalisco which is very close to Tlaltenango, Zacatecas.
Hola Arturo, Thank you for the offer. Let us know how the trip goes. Since my research has yielded nothing on my family, I'm thinking about going down to Zacatecas and Aguascalientes next summer. Due to the reported incidents in Mexico, friends and family don't think it's such a good idea. Be safe and have a great trip. AliceBBlake
--- arturo.ramos2@gmail.com wrote:
From: arturoramos
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Trip to Jalisco and Zacatecas
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 23:00:48 -0800 (PST)
I will be heading down to Mexico again in a week. I will be there for a whole week, but a large part of it will be consumed with wedding details of a close cousin of mine.
However, if there is something that someone wants for me to take down or bring back that will not be too cumbersome or troublesome I would be more than glad to oblige. I will be in Guadalajara and my grandparents' town of Villa Guerrero, Jalisco which is very close to Tlaltenango, Zacatecas.
Alice,
When I read email, I dont get it. Mexico is not Baghdad. Unless I misunderstand your concern for Arturo. Certainly there is issues in Oaxaca, but there is also issues in all of our American cities - with gang violence, road rage, poverty and mindless acts of violence (little girls assasinated in the quiet schoolhouse of the Quaker country).
One may say, the political upheaval in Oaxaca or the scuffles due to political passion in the Mexican congress is grave, but I say, these are localized conflicts motivated by politcal zeal. Mexico is full of very nice, hardworking, educated people, cultured, generous, hosptitable and safe people.
I am going to Zacatecas and Jalisco in January. I am not fearful, frightened or worried about my safety or that of all my family who lives in Mexico or who travel back and forth. I was just in Ensenada, where I introduced friends of mine to fine wineries and gourmet restauratns.
Gringolandia is not the only safe or civilized place in the world.
Enrique
AliceBB wrote:
Hola Arturo, Thank you for the offer. Let us know how the trip goes. Since my research has yielded nothing on my family, I'm thinking about going down to Zacatecas and Aguascalientes next summer. Due to the reported incidents in Mexico, friends and family don't think it's such a good idea. Be safe and have a great trip. AliceBBlake
--- arturo.ramos2@gmail.com wrote:
From: arturoramos
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Trip to Jalisco and Zacatecas
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 23:00:48 -0800 (PST)
I will be heading down to Mexico again in a week. I will be there for a whole week, but a large part of it will be consumed with wedding details of a close cousin of mine.
However, if there is something that someone wants for me to take down or bring back that will not be too cumbersome or troublesome I would be more than glad to oblige. I will be in Guadalajara and my grandparents' town of Villa Guerrero, Jalisco which is very close to Tlaltenango, Zacatecas.
The bulletin listed below was issued by the US Department of State. I, for one, do not plan on giving up my travels to see this beautiful country, and its peoples.
Safety
General information on personal safety abroad can be found in our brochure, A Safe Trip Abroad, on our home page at http://travel.state.gov/travel/tips/safety/safety_1747.html.
Avoid demonstrations and other activities that might be deemed political by the Mexican authorities. The Mexican Constitution prohibits political activities by foreigners, and such actions may result in detention and/or deportation.
Exercise caution in traveling to the southern state of Chiapas. Armed rebels and armed civilian groups are present in some areas of the state, and there is often no effective law enforcement or police protection. Violent criminal gang activity along the States southern border mostly aimed at illegal migrants continues to be a concern. U.S. citizens traveling to Chiapas are encouraged to contact the U.S. Embassy for further security information prior to traveling to the region.
Sporadic outbursts of politically motivated violence occur from time to time in certain parts of the country, particularly in the southern states of Chiapas, Guerrero and Oaxaca.
Crime in Mexico continues at high levels, and it is often violent, especially in Mexico City, Tijuana, Ciudad Juarez, Nuevo Laredo, and the state of Sinaloa. Other metropolitan areas have lower, but still serious, levels of crime. Low apprehension and conviction rates of criminals contribute to the high crime rate. Travelers should leave valuables and irreplaceable items in a safe place, or leave them at home. All visitors are encouraged to make use of hotel safes when available, avoid wearing obviously expensive jewelry or designer clothing, and carry only the cash or credit cards that will be needed on each outing. There are a significant number of pick-pocketing incidents, purse snatchings and hotel-room thefts. Public transportation is a particularly popular place for pickpockets. Be vigilant in bus and train stations and on public transport. All U.S. citizen victims of crime in Mexico are encouraged to report incidents to the nearest police headquarters and to the
nearest U.S. consular office.
Visitors should be aware of their surroundings at all times, even when in areas generally considered safe. Women traveling alone are especially vulnerable and should exercise caution, particularly at night. Victims, who are almost always unaccompanied, have been raped, robbed of personal property, or abducted and then held while their credit cards were used at various businesses and Automatic Teller Machines (ATMs). Armed street crime is a serious problem in all of the major cities. Some bars and nightclubs, especially in resort cities such as Cancun, Cabo San Lucas, Mazatlan, and Acapulco, can be havens for drug dealers and petty criminals. Some establishments may contaminate or drug drinks to gain control over the patron.
U.S. citizens should be very cautious in general when using ATMs in Mexico. If an ATM must be used, it should be accessed only during the business day at large protected facilities (preferably inside commercial establishments, rather than at glass-enclosed, highly visible ATMs on streets). U.S. and Mexican citizens are sometimes accosted on the street and forced to withdraw money from their accounts using their ATM cards.
A number of Americans have been arrested for passing on counterfeit currency they had earlier received in change. If you receive what you believe to be a counterfeit bank note, bring it to the attention of Mexican law enforcement.
Kidnapping, including the kidnapping of non-Mexicans, continues at alarming rates. So-called "express" kidnappings, an attempt to get quick cash in exchange for the release of an individual, have occurred in almost all the large cities in Mexico and appear to target not only the wealthy, but also middle class persons. U.S. businesses with offices in Mexico or concerned U.S. citizens may contact the U.S. Embassy or any U.S. consulate to discuss precautions they should take.
Criminal assaults occur on highways throughout Mexico; travelers should exercise extreme caution at all times, avoid traveling at night, and may wish to use toll (cuota) roads rather than the less secure free (libre) roads whenever possible. In addition, U.S. citizens should not hitchhike with, accept rides from or offer rides to, strangers anywhere in Mexico. Tourists should not hike alone in backcountry areas, nor walk alone on lightly frequented beaches, ruins or trails.
All bus travel should be during daylight hours and on first-class conveyances. Although there have been several reports of bus hijackings and robberies on toll roads, buses on toll roads still have a markedly lower rate of incidents than buses (second and third class) that travel the less secure "free" highways. The Embassy advises caution when traveling by bus from Acapulco toward Ixtapa or Huatulco. Although the police have made some progress in bringing this problem under control, armed robberies of entire busloads of passengers still occur.
In some instances, Americans have become victims of harassment, mistreatment and extortion by Mexican law enforcement and other officials. Mexican authorities have cooperated in investigating such cases, but one must have the officer's name, badge number, and patrol car number to pursue a complaint effectively. Please note this information if you ever have a problem with police or other officials. In addition, tourists should be wary of persons representing themselves as police officers or other officials. When in doubt, ask for identification. Be aware that offering a bribe to a public official to avoid a ticket or other penalty is a crime in Mexico.
It is increasingly common for extortionists to call prospective victims on the telephone, often posing as police officers, and demand payments in return for the release of an arrested family member, or to forestall a kidnapping. These calls are often placed by prison inmates using smuggled mobile phones. Persons receiving such calls should be extremely skeptical; most such demands or threats are baseless. Persons receiving such calls should contact the U.S. Embassy or closest U.S. Consulate, or the Department of State, for assistance.
Crime in Mexico City
In Mexico City, the most frequently reported crimes involving tourists are taxi robbery (see below), armed robbery, pick-pocketing and purse-snatching. In several cases, tourists have reported that men in uniforms perpetrated the crime, stopping vehicles and seeking money, or assaulting and robbing tourists walking late at night. As in any large city, individuals should exercise caution and be aware of their surroundings, especially when walking anywhere in the city.
Business travelers should be aware that thefts occur even in what appear to be secure locations. Thefts of such items as briefcases and laptops occur frequently at the Benito Juarez International Airport and at business-class hotels. Arriving travelers who need to obtain pesos at the airport should use the exchange counters or ATMs in the arrival/departure gate area, where access is restricted, rather than changing money after passing through Customs, where they can be observed by criminals.
Metro (subway) robberies are frequent in Mexico City. If riding the Metro or on the city bus system, U.S. citizens should take extreme care with valuables and belongings. Avoid using Metro during busy commuting hours in the morning or afternoon. Tourists and residents alike should avoid driving alone at night anywhere in Mexico City.
Taxicab Crime
Robbery and assaults on passengers in taxis are frequent and violent in Mexico City, with passengers subjected to beatings, shootings and sexual assault. U.S. citizens visiting Mexico City should avoid taking any taxi not summoned by telephone or contacted in advance. When in need of a taxi, please telephone a radio taxi or "sitio" (regulated taxi stand pronounced "C-T-O"), and ask the dispatcher for the driver's name and the cab's license plate number. Ask the hotel concierge or other responsible individual calling on your behalf to write down the license plate number of the cab that you entered.
Passengers arriving at Mexico City's Benito Juarez International Airport should take only airport taxis (which are white with a yellow stripe and a black airplane symbol) after pre-paying the fare at one of the special booths inside the airport.
Crime in Border Cities
Visitors to the U.S. - Mexico border region, including the cities of Tijuana, Ciudad Juarez, Nuevo Laredo, Nogales, Reynosa and Matamoros, should remain alert and be aware of their surroundings at all times.
Drug-related violence has increased dramatically in recent months, and shows no sign of abating. While U.S. citizens not involved in criminal activities are generally not targeted, innocent bystanders are at risk from the increase in violence in the streets of border cities. In Ciudad Juarez, Nuevo Laredo and Tijuana, shootings have taken place at busy intersections and at popular restaurants during daylight hours. The wave of violence has been aimed primarily at members of drug trafficking organizations, criminal justice officials and journalists. However, foreign visitors and residents, including Americans, have been among the victims of homicides and kidnappings in the border region. In recent months, the worst violence has been centered in the city of Nuevo Laredo in the Mexican state of Tamaulipas, where more than 45 U.S. citizens were kidnapped and/or murdered between August 2004 and July 2005. U.S. citizens are urged to be especially aware of safety and
security concerns when visiting the border region and exercise common-sense precautions such as visiting only legitimate business and tourist areas of border towns during daylight hours.
Mexican authorities have failed to prosecute numerous crimes committed against American citizens, including murder and kidnapping. Local police forces suffer from a lack of funds and training, and the judicial system is weak, overworked, and inefficient. Criminals, armed with an impressive array of weapons, know there is little chance they will be caught and punished. In some cases, assailants have been wearing full or partial police uniforms and have used vehicles that resemble police vehicles, indicating some elements of the police might be involved.
Visitors are very vulnerable when visiting local "red light districts," particularly if they are departing alone in the early hours of the morning. In Ciudad Juarez and Tijuana, there has also been a rise in automobile accidents in which municipal police extort money from U.S. citizen victims.
Cancun and Other Resort Areas
Over 3 million Americans travel to Cancun and other Mexican beach resorts each year, including as many as 120,000 during "spring break" season, which normally begins in mid-February and runs about two months. Excessive alcohol consumption, especially by Americans under the legal U.S. drinking age, is a significant problem. The legal drinking age in Mexico is 18, but it is not uniformly enforced. Alcohol is implicated in the majority of arrests, violent crimes, accidents and deaths suffered by American tourists.
There have been a significant number of rapes reported in Cancun. Many of these have occurred at night or in the early morning. Attacks have also occurred on deserted beaches and in hotel rooms. Acquaintance rape is a serious problem. In other cases, hotel workers, taxi drivers, and even security personnel have been implicated. Anyone who is a victim of a sexual assault or other crime should report it immediately to the nearest U.S. consular office and should endeavor to make a report to Mexican authorities. Do not rely on hotel/restaurant/tour company management to make the report for you.
Under the best of circumstances, prosecution is very difficult (a fact some assailants appear to knowingly exploit), but no criminal investigation is possible without a formal complaint to Mexican authorities.
In recent years, moped rentals have become very widespread in Cancun and Cozumel, and the number of serious moped accidents has risen accordingly. Most operators carry no insurance and do not conduct safety checks. Some have been known to demand fees many times in excess of damages caused to the vehicles, even if renters have purchased insurance in advance. Vacationers at other beach resorts have encountered similar problems after accidents involving rented jet-skis.
There have been cases of mobs gathering to prevent tourists from departing the scene and to help intimidate them into paying exorbitant damage claims
enrique legaspi wrote: Alice,
When I read email, I dont get it. Mexico is not Baghdad. Unless I misunderstand your concern for Arturo. Certainly there is issues in Oaxaca, but there is also issues in all of our American cities - with gang violence, road rage, poverty and mindless acts of violence (little girls assasinated in the quiet schoolhouse of the Quaker country).
One may say, the political upheaval in Oaxaca or the scuffles due to political passion in the Mexican congress is grave, but I say, these are localized conflicts motivated by politcal zeal. Mexico is full of very nice, hardworking, educated people, cultured, generous, hosptitable and safe people.
I am going to Zacatecas and Jalisco in January. I am not fearful, frightened or worried about my safety or that of all my family who lives in Mexico or who travel back and forth. I was just in Ensenada, where I introduced friends of mine to fine wineries and gourmet restauratns.
Gringolandia is not the only safe or civilized place in the world.
Enrique
AliceBB wrote:
Hola Arturo, Thank you for the offer. Let us know how the trip goes. Since my research has yielded nothing on my family, I'm thinking about going down to Zacatecas and Aguascalientes next summer. Due to the reported incidents in Mexico, friends and family don't think it's such a good idea. Be safe and have a great trip. AliceBBlake
--- arturo.ramos2@gmail.com wrote:
From: arturoramos
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Trip to Jalisco and Zacatecas
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 23:00:48 -0800 (PST)
I will be heading down to Mexico again in a week. I will be there for a whole week, but a large part of it will be consumed with wedding details of a close cousin of mine.
However, if there is something that someone wants for me to take down or bring back that will not be too cumbersome or troublesome I would be more than glad to oblige. I will be in Guadalajara and my grandparents' town of Villa Guerrero, Jalisco which is very close to
Hello! Thank you for you offer, I need nothing. But jus in case, about a year ago I needed certain birth certificate, been in Guadalajara I placed my order but was told it wasn´t still digitalized so that I had to go in the municipio it belonged. So I couldn´t get it, I had a ticket for a plane to take me back later the same day. Took a taxi cab and told such story to the driver. He said he knew a lot of cases of that nature and advised me about "El Chato" who is a man that works in the Registro Civil, the offices located in La Normal zone in Guadalajara, Jal., he is in charge of maintenance, wears a blue, long shirt, and for a nice and reasonable tip can get a copy of any record. Hope he is there nowadays.
arturoramos escribió:
I will be heading down to Mexico again in a week.
---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!? La mejor conexión a Internet y 2GB extra a tu correo por $100 al mes. http://net.yahoo.com.mx
Sr. Arturo:
Mi nombre es Fernando Pérez y estoy investigando sobre los apellidos de mi familia, es probable que yo también haga el viaje a Jalisco, pero a un pueblo que se llama Cuquio, nunca he estado en la presidencia municipal de el pueblito de mis abuelos, y no se como se manejen las cosas para consultar o pedir copias de los documentos como actas de nacimiento o de matrimonio, ¿Me podría dar algunos consejos para que en caso de que esté por aquel lugar pueda accesar a los mencionados documentos?.
De antemano le agradezco su ayuda.
Leticia:
Ayer estuve en el Family History Center, y ya ordené unos films, pero me dí cuenta que que solamente tienen información de una de las iglesias del pueblo y falta información de la otra, por lo que la persona que está ahí asesorando me aconsejó que buscara en la Diócesis a la que pertenecia en este tiempo las iglesias de Cuquío, así que ahora estoy investigando a ver como estaba la organizada la estructura de la iglesia en Jalisco entre los años de 1845 al 1920, porque a partir de 1921 paso a pertenecer a la Arquidiócesis de Guadalajara.
Saludos
Fernando Pérez
----- Original Message ----
From: arturoramos
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, December 1, 2006 1:00:48 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Trip to Jalisco and Zacatecas
I will be heading down to Mexico again in a week. I will be there for a whole week, but a large part of it will be consumed with wedding details of a close cousin of mine.
However, if there is something that someone wants for me to take down or bring back that will not be too cumbersome or troublesome I would be more than glad to oblige. I will be in Guadalajara and my grandparents' town of Villa Guerrero, Jalisco which is very close to Tlaltenango, Zacatecas.
Hola! El registro civil en México comenzó en 1800, si mal no sé; en tu buscador de la web escribe cuquio, jalisco y tal vez se abra una página con la historia de Cuquío, tal vez indique la pertenencia de Cuquío por épocas. Suerte. Así descubrí que Jesús Maria, Jalisco, por ejemplo pertenecía a Ayotlan en el siglo XVIII, cuando en ciertos años no encontré registros se me ocurrió buscar de la forma que te digo y escribí en mi buscador jesus maria, jalisco y ahí estaba la historia.
Fernando Perez escribió: Sr. Arturo:
Mi nombre es Fernando Pérez y estoy investigando sobre los apellidos de mi familia, es probable que yo también haga el viaje a Jalisco, pero a un pueblo que se llama Cuquio, nunca he estado en la presidencia municipal de el pueblito de mis abuelos, y no se como se manejen las cosas para consultar o pedir copias de los documentos como actas de nacimiento o de matrimonio, ¿Me podría dar algunos consejos para que en caso de que esté por aquel lugar pueda accesar a los mencionados documentos?.
De antemano le agradezco su ayuda.
Leticia:
Ayer estuve en el Family History Center, y ya ordené unos films, pero me dí cuenta que que solamente tienen información de una de las iglesias del pueblo y falta información de la otra, por lo que la persona que está ahí asesorando me aconsejó que buscara en la Diócesis a la que pertenecia en este tiempo las iglesias de Cuquío, así que ahora estoy investigando a ver como estaba la organizada la estructura de la iglesia en Jalisco entre los años de 1845 al 1920, porque a partir de 1921 paso a pertenecer a la Arquidiócesis de Guadalajara.
Saludos
Fernando Pérez
----- Original Message ----
From: arturoramos
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, December 1, 2006 1:00:48 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Trip to Jalisco and Zacatecas
I will be heading down to Mexico again in a week. I will be there for a whole week, but a large part of it will be consumed with wedding details of a close cousin of mine.
However, if there is something that someone wants for me to take down or bring back that will not be too cumbersome or troublesome I would be more than glad to oblige. I will be in Guadalajara and my grandparents' town of Villa Guerrero, Jalisco which is very close to Tlaltenango, Zacatecas.
this appeared in the latest Somos Primos newsletter:
*Nuestros Ranchos: Jalisco, Zacatecas y Aguascalientes
*
Are you researching your ancestors that at sometime lived in or were
from Jalisco, Zacatecas, and/or Aguascalientes? If you are a
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Somos Primos December 2006 Table of Contents+URL 4lq
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 00:19:04 -0500 (EST)
From: MIMILOZANO@aol.com
To: MIMILOZANO@aol.com
My name is Lucy Jennings Sweeney. I have just uploaded the Gedcom for my
maternal line, which is entirely in Jalisco. Thank you, Arturo. Here are
the areas of Jalisco, the family lines, and the ranchos I have found in
"Padrsn de poblacisn de Aguascalientes", compiled in 1792 by Fel