Nuestros Ranchos Site

I learned the following when consulting with a volunteer at my local FHC and am posting it in the hopes that it may be of use to others. If the Catholic marriage was of two people of different parishes, the banns would need to be posted in each church where each was then living. The banns wouldn't necessarily indicate in which church the marriage took place, and, of course, it could be in a parish where neither actually resided, but it was most likely in the woman's. The banns do indicate the parished involved. While this means ordering of even more films, maybe by hunting through both mg records and mg information records I can find some elusive marriages that are not in the IGI and not where the kids are born. I also learned that, if uncontested, the mg usually took place 3 weeks after the last bann.

I have been on a quest for the marriage record of Benigno Cabral and
Pioquinta Gonzalez. I have been reading George Ryskamps book on doing
hispanic research and have found a way to search out their marriage record.
First of all, I was told they were married in Zacatecas. That's all I have
to go on, whether it's accurate information or not. Secondly, Pioquinta, I
now know, was born in Huejuquilla El Alto, Jalisco in 1834 and Benigno in
Huejucar, Jalisco in 1828. This is right on the border of Zacatecas, but
what about in the early 1800's? What were the borders then? I have been
investigating this, looking for maps, etc. While these two areas are
currently part of the Diocese of Zacatecas, back when they were born and
when they were married, I have learned it was not yet the Diocese of
Zacatecas, that this diocese was not created until 1863. It was, before
that time, part of the "See?" of Guadalajara. I don't know what that is,
but I have been looking in the Family History Library Catalog for records
under Guadalajara that would include the region now in the Diocese of
Zacatecas, but without luck. There seems to be a gap in the history of that
region, between 1849 and 1859, right when they would have been married. I
have learned from Ryskamp's book that they were probably married where the
bride lived, but I have already checked the Huejuquilla El Alto marriage
records for that time period and did not find anything.

So, I've been plugging along with this, enjoying the detective work. Don't
have as much time to devote to this as I would like, but I'm still at it.

Take care, all
Corrine Ardoin
Santa Maria, California

This will be of particular interest to the descendants of Reyes-Medina lines.
I was able to locate the marriage of Antonio de los Reyes to Isabel de Esparza, although she is listed as Isabel de Hortiz, daughter of Juan de Ortiz and Luisa de Esparza. I then found the marriage of Isabel's parents:

Juan de Ortiz married Luisa de Esparza on Dec. 13, 1666 in Aguascalientes (no parents listed, thus maybe someone has more info on this couple).

Their daughter, Isavel de Esparza, was born about 1667 and died before 1709.
Isavel (Isabel) appeared as Isabel Hortiz (Ortiz) in her marriage to Antonio de los Reyes, as Isabel de Esparza in the christening of her son Luis de Reyes and in the wedding of her son Joseph de Reyes, and as Isabel Ramirez in Luis' burial. I've not figured out the source of Ramirez.

Isabel de Esparza married Antonio de Los Reyes on Nov. 11, 1681 in Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes. Antonio, son of Luis de Los Reyes (Luis1) and Juana Tiscareño de Molina, was born about 1665 and died on an unknown date.

Children of Isabel de Esparza and Antonio de Los Reyes were:

Joseph de Reyes , born about 1685 and died on an unknown date. Joseph married Beatris de Medina on Mar. 11, 1709 in El Sagrario, Aguascalientes. Beatris, was daughter of Christobal de Medina and Maria de Avila, and was born on Apr. 16, 1687 in Aguascalientes; died on an unknown date.

and

Luis de Reyes, born on Apr. 27, 1693 in Aguascalientes, and died on Apr. 14, 1742 in Aguascalientes.Luis married Gabriela de Medina, also daughter of Christobal de Medina and Maria de Avila, on Nov. 14, 1714 in El Sagrario, Aguascalientes.

Hi, Daniel:

I know someone that goes to my same family history center and she has a
bunch of films on indefinite loan there for that area. I will check to see
if they are of that time period. Unless someone else helps you out first!

Corrine Ardoin
Santa Maria, California

George and Peggy who? This is great. Yeah, I'm going through the baptisms
microfilm for the San Diego parish now for that time period, 1833-1875, to
locate any other children. That is how I found siblings and cousins, aunts
and uncles of Pioquinta's. In the book on hijos naturales, there was an
entry that showed Benigno the father of his mother in law's baby in 1854, so
that was surprising and the priest who did the baptism, was Benigno's
brother, Pasqual Cabral. Interestingly, the baby and the priest were both
named Pasqual.

Thank-you for your comments. I am very interested in knowing how to contact
George and Peggy. Do they have a genealogy file on Nuestros Ranchos?

Thanks, again,
Corrine Ardoin
Santa Maria, California

Hi again, I also have Alejandro Chávez Fragoso and Paula Rivas, (I think Paula was from San Luís Potosí or Guanajuato) Alejandro and Paula married in Villa de Reyes, SLP, but should order the film to get the place where she was from, IGI had listed there parents which helps, and found kids for them in Aguascalientes. dont have a marriage date, I can somewhat say that Alejandro is the son of Francisco Chávez Fragoso, since in the Aguas films, hes the only Alejandro, Ive been able to find in Aguascalientes in the time frame, then Francisco is married 1681 to Marina Sotomayor daughter of Bernabé Montáñez (de Tovalino???) and Isabel Carillo de Sandi, who married 14 jun 1659 in Teocaltiche, (does anyone know who these guys are) back to Francisco was son of Simón Chávez Fragoso who married Juana Padilla (no marriage date) he is from Teocaltiche, Hacienda de San Marcos, which was own by the Chávez Fragoso. Not sure who Simón's parents are but due to the time frame, he should be a son of the patriarch, Pedro de Chávez y Fragoso, but I checked Retoños vol II and don Mariano does not list nothing on Simón, eventhough this name seems pretty common around 1660-or so, but my Simón is ca. 1617 or so.

-Daniel del Camino

Does anyone have any Chihuahua films? Or have extracted info or know any of the following names, I only have a couple lines in Chihuahua in the 1600's.

Francisco Yáñez married 24 mar 1697 in Hidalgo del Parral to Ignacia Piñón.

José Piñón married to Catalina Bernal (no more info)

Francisco de Mendoza married Petronila Sánchez de Ortega y Alarcón (no more info.

Francisco possibly married a second time to María de Amaya on 19 sep 1656.
Havent confirm it but it looks like only this Francisco was there arouncd 1630. I have a hunch he might be related somehow to the Domínguez de Mendoza or de Zaldívar y Mendoza families, these are the only two Mendoza families, I know of in Chihuahua (part of Nueva Vizcaya). -Daniel Méndez del Camino, Many Thanks.

I just posted my updated Ruiz family tree. I almost got it right. Its above my name in the files, not exactly where I wanted it, but close enough. If someone can advise me about how to undo and do it right, I will try to make that happen. Muchisimas gracias a Ray Jauregui and Deena Ortiz for helping me extend my ancestral lines. I hope my posting can do the same for others. I haven't had time to verify that which I've received from others, but will do so in time.

I need help if anyone out there can help me. I am researching my great great parents but need some advice. I was told that my great great grandfather and grandmother were born at Agua Gorda De Los Patos. This Rancho is right on the line of Zacatecas but....Ojuelos de Jalisco is really close to the Rancho. My mother said that it's posbile that they were registered in Ojuelos since it was a walking distance to the town but like I said....the rancho is on the line of Zacatecas. Would they allowe them back then to registere at Ojuelos Jalisco?

Please Advice.

I just wanted to share something wonderful that has happened because I post my files on Rootsweb.com.

I was contacted by a lady who said she had found out she was a Castanon by birth and was searching for her fathers line even though she never met him and was brought up by a step father. She said they were from Cutler and Dinuba Ca. and since my gr-grandparents, Vicente Castanon and Maria Gertruds Caldera, had lived there until their deaths in the 1940s I felt there must be some kind of connection. I contacted a cousin who grew up there and she was able to contact someone who knew who this lady was and is putting her in contact with half brothers and sisters she didn't know she had. She is very excited and happy to be able to find the missing part of her family of origin. I don't know how it will work out but at least she gets a chance to find out.

I asked her how she found me and she said she saw my files on Rootsweb.com and hoped I would respond. She is the reason I post my records in the hopes that I can help someone else to reclaim a history, a family or a connection to the past.

just wanted to share this wonderful story.

Linda in Everett

Hi, Everyone:

I just wanted to let you know that I just added a new file to my member's
genealogy file. Under Ardoin, Corrine, you will see I added my Gonzalez
Family Tree for the research I have been doing in Huejuquilla El Alto,
Jalisco. The source is primarily the LDS Film No. 1667417 San Diego Parish
Records Baptisms 1833-1875.

Corrine Ardoin
Santa Maria, California

Sunday, March 15, 2009

Dear Eduardo--

Many thanks for your message. I do have the people you mentioned. They are all great uncles or aunts to my husband. The ones I am missing are as follows:

Child 3 Juan GODINEZ born about 1886
married 22 Sep 1910 to
M. Felipa GUTIERREZ

Child 4 Estefania GODINEZ born about 1888
married 21 Nov 1906 to
Ildefonso ESTRADA
(She died during the great flu epidemic of 1918)

Child 5 Maria Trinidad GODINEZ born about 1891
spinster
died in Tijuana, B.C., Mexico about 1980

Child 6 Francisco GODINEZ (not Francisca)
A twin born 1 Oct 1893 in San Joaquin, Atotonilco el Alto.
married Ma. Encarnacion ARRANAGA about 1925???

Child 7 Nicolas GODINEZ born 1 Oct 1893
the second twin, bachelor
died 7 Sep 1925 in San Joaquin
killed by lightning while under a tree

Child 11 Manuel GODINEZ born 12 Jun 1906
younger brother of Nicolas, bachelor
died 7 Sep 1925 in San Joaquin
killed by the same lightning along with a friend of theirs
The friend's name I no longer have.

Child 12 Jose GODINEZ born 29 May 1909
apparently died very young, no one remembered him

Please tell me what names you are researching. Currently, I am in the process of indexing the 1930 Census for the villages of Margaritas, Milpillas, Santa Elena (previously known as Ranch Viejo, Salitrillo (it only had 60 people in 1930--most who were either DUENAS or apparently married into the DUENAS family, and San Joaquin. I also have some information of the ranchos/haciendas of Bramido, Aguascalientes, El Nacimiento, and the city of Atotonilco el Alto.

I truly thank you for your help with the GODINEZ siblings.

Sincerely,
Patricia Burton
San Diego

PS Eduardo, where are you located?

--- On Sun, 3/15/09, Eduardo H Seoane wrote:

> From: Eduardo H Seoane
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The value of Indices...
> To: announce@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sunday, March 15, 2009, 9:25 PM
> Sorry Victoriano, this message is for Patricia Burton. She
> is right about the indexes, you can never assume they are
> 100% accurate. For anyone reading this, I am sorry about
> posting it within this article and pay close attention to
> the name variations. Many of you already know this but for
> those that do not or need a reminder, always check different
> variations in the spelling.
>
> Patricia,
> I do not know if you are aware of these other children of
> Juan and Estrefania. Chances are that these are all family
> of Cipriana. There are probably other family members that I
> did not find. It looks like the family was in Octolán first
> and then Toluquila and finally settled in Atotonilco el
> Alto, Jalisco, México. Some of my family is from Atotonilco
> el Alto, Jalisco, México so we might end up being cousins.
> Here you go this might help you.
>
> By the way Victoriano I might end up being related to you
> also since I also have Sepeda's (Zepeda, Cepeda) in
> Coahuila also.
>
> Name: Vicente Godines De La Torre
> Gender: Male
> Christening date: 29 Jul 1902
> Christening place: Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, México
> Residence: Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
> Father name: Juan Godines
> Mother name: Estefania De La Torre
> Batch number: I02248-7
> Record group: Mexico-EASy
> Film number: 222145
> Collection: Mexico Baptisms 1700-1900
>
> Name: Manuel Godinez
> Gender: Male
> Christening date: 14 Jun 1906
> Christening place: Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
> Residence: Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
> Father name: Juan Godinez
> Mother name: Estefania Torres
> Batch number: I02154-7
> Record group: Mexico-EASy
> Film number: 222147
> Collection: Mexico Baptisms 1700-1900
>
> Name: Nicolas Godinez
> Gender: Male
> Christening date: 08 Oct 1893
> Christening place: Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
> Residence: Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
> Father name: Juan Godinez
> Mother name: Estefana Alatorre
> Batch number: I06361-2
> Record group: Mexico-EASy
> Film number: 222137
> Collection: Mexico Baptisms 1700-1900
>
> Name: Cipriana Godines
> Gender: Female
> Christening date: 09 Oct 1884
> Christening place: Toluquilla, Jalisco, Mexico
> Residence: Toluquilla, Jalisco, Mexico
> Father name: Juan Godines
> Mother name: Estefana Alatorre
> Batch number: I04462-3
> Record group: Mexico-EASy
> Film number: 445248
> Collection: Mexico Baptisms 1700-1900
>
> Name: Gemela Francisca Godines
> Gender: Female
> Christening date: 06 Oct 1893
> Christening place: Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
> Residence: Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
> Father name: Juan Godines
> Mother name: Estefana Alatorre
> Batch number: I06361-2
> Record group: Mexico-EASy
> Film number: 222137
> Collection: Mexico Baptisms 1700-1900
>
> Name: Martina Godines
> Gender: Female
> Christening date: 16 Feb 1883
> Christening place: Octolán, Jalisco, Mexico
> Residence: Ocotlán, Jalisco, Mexico
> Father name: Juan Godines
> Mother name: Estefania Alatorre
> Batch number: I03736-7
> Record group: Mexico-EASy
> Film number: 280867
> Collection: Mexico Baptisms 1700-1900
>
> Name: Tomas Godriez
> Gender: Male
> Christening date: 12 Mar 1897
> Christening place: Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
> Residence: Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
> Father name: Juan Godriez
> Mother name: Estefama Alatorre
> Batch number: I04903-3
> Record group: Mexico-EASy
> Film number: 222140
> Collection: Mexico Baptisms 1700-1900
>
>

Sunday, Mar 15, 2009

Dear Victoriano-

I have two feelings about indices. First, that they are good and help you to find someone quickly, if they are indeed listed. Second, that they are bad because you might skip over someone needed for your family tree. Personally, I would check the film completely at least once, if it was very important because even if you don't find the person you want, you might find other relatives.

Recently, I came across a Cipriana GODINEZ, daughter of Juan GODINEZ and Estefania DE LA TORRE. I have been looking for her brother for at least 30 years. She was in an index of Toluquilla, Jalisco. I had found her parents listed in another index for being married in Toluquilla but with the wrong year...someone had extracted it incorrectly by 10 years. That was many years ago.

Cipriana herself had said at the time of her marriage, 2 Nov 1907, in Atotonilco el Alto, that she was from Toluquila. None of her other siblings said that and since she was the only one and not on my husband's direct line, I didn't bother to order the film. Some of the other siblings had sent me off on other goose chases which resulted in NO new information.

The nice thing about finding Cipriana born on 9 Oct 1884 in Toluquilla, and I have now ordered that film, is that it pushed her brother Juan GODINEZ down a couple of years to where he should more correctly be listed. I still haven't found Juan, who is on my husband's direct line, nor 2 other siblings but I feel I am getting closer. Eventually as more indexes become available, I will find these errant GODINEZ people.

I hope my answer helps you decide what to do. As you can see, there is no exact science to Family History and sometimes even after very diligent work, nothing comes of it and then sooner or later the answer we seek appears.

Best of luck to you in your search.

Sincerely,
Patrica Burton
San Diego

--- On Sun, 3/15/09, victorianonavarro wrote:

> From: victorianonavarro
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] IGI Indices.... Ancestors in Ocotlan, Jalisco...
> To: announce@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sunday, March 15, 2009, 6:21 PM
> Dear Patricia,
> Thanks for your message I don't really know for sure if
> I should be looking for VICTORIANO NAVARRO in Ocotlán.
> I found the names of his parents and grandparents in al old
> family tree prepared in 1935 by one of his grandsons.
> Recently I was able to confirm the names of his parents
> (MARIA ENCARNACIÓN SEPEDA & DOMINGO NAVARRO) by finding
> baptism records of his chidren from northen Coahuila. I
> still have to find out whether the names of his grandparets
> (FERNANDA SARAVIA & JOSÉ MARÍA NAVARRO and RAFAEL
> SEPEDA & ROSA SAUCEDO) are aso correct or not. I am
> trying to find a marriage or baptism record for Victoriano
> himself (hoping to find the names of his grandparents), then
> I would like to try to find the same for his parents, and
> only then I could make sure whether the records you mention
> do correspond or not to my ancestors. The only source of
> information regarding Victoriano's Ocotlán origin is a
> book regarding the Madero famiy genealogy written by Carlos
> B Madero, the youngest brother of President Fco. Madero. I
> wonder if he was actually from some other town in Jalisco.
> I know Victoriano was born about 1808, but I went to the
> IGI Indices of bapisms from Ocotlán around 1808 (found in
> this webpage) and I could not find his name. Do you or
> somebody else knows if these indices contain ALL the names
> included in the microfilms? Should I bother looking for his
> baptism record in these microfms if his name does not appear
> in the IGI indices?
> Thanks again fo the information.
> Warmest regards,
> Victoriano Navarro

Luis Alvarado and Beatriz Lopez de Elisalde had daughters Maria Lopes de Elisalde and Josepha de Alvarado (and at least one other, Antonia Lopes de Alvarado).

Maria Lopes de Elisalde married Thomas Macias on 13 Sep 1659, in Aguascalientes.

Josepha de Alvarado married Nicolas Macias on 21 Feb 1662, in Aguascalientes.

Does anyone have information on Thomas Macias and Nicolas Macias?

George Fulton

Sunday, March 15, 2009

Dear Victoriano--

I checked one of my sources and found the following:

Joseph Maria NABARRO married
16 Jun 1766 in Ocotlan to
Fernanda Josepha SANABRIA

Their children appear to be:

Joseph Bernardino Senicio NAVARRO born
10 Jun 1767 in Ocotlan

Jop. Antto. Mathias NABARRO born
6 Mar 1771 in Ocotlan

Could these be yours? I could not get anywhere with your other names. Sorry.

Sincerely,
Patricia Burton
in San Diego, Ca.

--- On Sat, 3/14/09, victorianonavarro wrote:

> From: victorianonavarro
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA Celtic and Spain
> To: announce@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Saturday, March 14, 2009, 10:44 PM
> Hi all,
> I descend from the NAVARRO family from Coahuila, altough
> according to one source my great grandfather VICTORIANO
> NAVARRO came from OCOTLÁN, JALISCO (born about 1808; son of
> MARIA ENCARNACIÓN SEPEDA & DOMINGO NAVARRO; greatson of
> FERNANDA SARAVIA & JOSÉ MARÍA NAVARRO and of RAFAEL
> SEPEDA & ROSA SAUCEDO), however so far I have not
> confimed this Jalisco connection with any other documents.
> If anybody has any furhter information please let me know, I
> would really appreciate it. I got the Y-DNA test from
> NatGeo/FamilytreeDNA and we belong to the R1b1b2 Haplogroup.
> The FamilytreeDNA page has an "Ancestral Origins"
> section where they compare one's results to their
> database. According to therm:
> -Percentages above 2% are considered significant indicators
> of your family’s origins. -Percentages above 4% may be
> interpreted as highly significant indicators of your
> family’s origins.
> I don't have any matches on 25, 37 or 64 markers, but I
> have some on 12 markers (exact and one-step mutation
> results).
> On 12 markers, exact matches, none of them is above 0.1%,
> but on one-step mutations the highest % matches I have are
> 2% matches with the database from NORTHEN IRELAND (10 out of
> 493); compared to the database from IRELAND I only have 1%
> matches (103 out of 10,051).
> My results can be found at Gary Felix's Mexican DNA
> webpage and at Ysearch. There you can find other results
> from NAVARRO families fron JALISCO which are also R1b1b2 but
> that do not match each other nor my own. I was also
> remembering some Spaniards from Irish origin. The last
> Viceroy of New Spain was JUAN O'DONOJÚ and one of the
> leaders of Chile's Independence War was BERNANRDO
> O'HIGGINS.
> Warmest regards,
> Victoriano Navarro

I'm afraid I made an error and would like to apologize for any inconvenience it causes anyone on this site. My grandchildren wanted me on Facebook but apparently I let it access my address book and noticed it's sending out all kinds of junk and I'm not sure yet how to end the error part. Please delete anything it sends you from Facebook from me.. I DID NOT SEND IT!

again, my apology.
a very frustrated Linda in Everett

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
  Mexico
Search Results  | Download | Print

________________________________

ANTONIO JUSTO VALLEJO Pedigree
  Male   Family

________________________________
Event(s):
Birth: 
Christening: 
Death:  11 MAY 1789  
Burial: 

________________________________
Parents:
  Father:  LUCAS VALLEJO Family
  Mother:  TOMASA HERRERA  

________________________________
Marriages:
  Spouse:  MARIA FELICIANA ALVAREZ-TOSTADO Family
  Marriage:  14 JUN 1754   Jalostotitlan, Jalisco, Mexico

________________________________
From: "research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:05:54 PM
Subject: Research Digest, Vol 38, Issue 13

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Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
DAILY DIGEST
****************************************

Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Canadas de Obregon (jose maria vallejo mercado)
  2. Re: Canadas de Obregon (Ricci, Richard)
  3. Re: Canadas de Obregon (Ricci, Richard)
  4. Luis Alvarado and Beatriz Lopez de Elisalde (gpf13)
  5. Luis Alvarado and Beatriz Lopes de Elisalde (gpf13)
  6. Re: Luis Alvarado and Beatriz Lopes de Elisalde
      (Daniel M?ndez del Camino)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:59:42 -0600
From: jose maria vallejo mercado
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Canadas de Obregon
To: consulta genealogica
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

      Hola a todos, mi nombre es Jos? Mar?a Vallejo Mercado, originario de Jalostotitl?n, Jal.

  Desconozco o por que raz?n se maneja como Villa de Jerez, a Villa Obreg?n,Jal.  ya que no tiene ning?n fundamento, siendo hasta por el a?o de 1903, siempre estuvo perteneciente a Jalostotitl?n, Jal.

  Desde un principio fu? asentamiento de Criollos, ( descendientes de espa?oles nacidos en M?xico) y no tiene historia prehispanica.

  Adem?s que la Villa de Jerez, ( considero que es la Actual Jerez, Zacatecas, ubicado cerca de Zacatecas, Zac. 

  Siendo que el primer censo que se realiz? en lo que hoy es Ca?adas de Obreg?n, fu? en el a?o de 1731, que se le nombraba San Bartolome de las Ca?adas, y en ese censo incluian a 3 familias las fundadoras y una era la Formada por:

1-. Ascencio G?mez casado con Leonor Franco y 3 hijos JUan, Antonio y Manuel G?mez Franco.

2-. Juan Antonio Franco casado co Juana G?mez.

3-. Lucas Vallejo casado con Thomasa de Herrera, y 3 hijos: Micaela, Geronimo y Mar?a de Jes?s. ( Geronimo Vallejo es el abuelo del General Mariano Guadalupe Vallejo, que naci? en Califonia el 4 de Julio de 1807, y en honor a el le pusieron a la Ciudad de Vallejo, en California.)

  Se le daba el nombre de Villa a un poblado peque?o, haciendo referencia a Villorio, y por el Obreg?n se debe en honor al General Alvaro Obreg?n que fue General en tiempos de la Revoluci?n Mexicana, adem?s fue Presidente de M?xico por el a?o de 1920 al 1924.

  Cuando fu? fundado o creado Villa Obreg?n, antes de esta denominaci?n se le llamo San Bartolome de las Ca?adas.

  En el a?o de 1880, pertenecian a la Villa de Jalostotitl?n, 6 pueblos y 12 Haciendas y son los siguinetes:

1-. Villa Obreg?n, hoy Ca?adas de Obregon.

2-. Temacapulin, mejor conocido como Temaca.

3-. Teocaltitan, ahora Delegaci?n de Jalostotitl?n, y ahora es Teocaltitan de Guadalupe.

4-. Tacintla, ahora Delegaci?n de Jalostotitl?n, y ahora se llama San Gaspar de los Reyes, Jal.

5-. San Nicolas, ahora Delegaci?n de Jalostotitl?n, y se llama San Nicolas de las Flores, Jal.

6-. Mitic, ahora es solo rancho; que en el a?o de 1571 se fundo ah? la Parroquia de los Tecuexes, que despues paso a la parroquia de Jalostotitl?n, Jal. ( Hoy Parroquia de la Asunci?n, en Jalostotitl?n, Jal.

  Haciendas:

1-. La Llave, se encuentra actualmente en Municipio del Valle de Guadalupe.

2-. Venta de Pegueros, actualmente es Delegaci?n de Tepatitl?n, Conocido como Pegueros.

3-. La Laja, pertenece a Jalostotitl?n, Jal.

4-. Potrero, igual a la anterior.

5-. Las Tablas, igual a la anterior.

6-. San Antonio, igual a la anterior.

7-. Labor de Abalza, igual a la anterior.

8-. Salto.

9-. Los Yugos, pertenece actualmente al municipio de Ca?adas de Obregon, Jal.

10-. Del H?medo, pertenece a Ca?adas de Obregon, Jal.

11-. Las Pilas, igual a la anterior.

12-. Zapotillo.

  Antes de hacerse municipio Valle de Guadalupe, fu? comisaria de Villa Obreg?n, Jal.

To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: arturo.ramos2@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 08:51:55 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Canadas de Obregon
>
>
> Jose Luis:
>
> Sobre la teoria que Canadas de Obregon puede haber sido la Villa de Jerez en 1650, lo dudo. Si ves la monografia de ese pueblo en la Enciclopedia de Municipios no hay ninguna mencion de su nombre siendo Jerez:
>
> http://www.e-local.gob.mx/work/templates/enciclo/jalisco/mpios/14117a.h…
>
> Ademas, si ves los mapas antiguos como los que aparecen en David Rumsey o en la seccion de Mapas Antiguos de los Albumes de este sitio tampoco aparece ningun Jerez donde esta Canadas de Obregon.
>
> Ademas, el termino "Villa" era uno legal... la designacion se daba por el Rey de Espana a ciertos pueblos que llegaban a ser sillas gubernamentales, etc. En la independencia se hizo parte del Canton de la Barca, luego del Municipio de Teocaltiche y finalmente su propio municipio incluyendo las comisarias de Ca?adas, Valle de Guadalupe, Catachim?, Los Yugos, Rancho de Abajo, Laguna de Santa Gertrudis y El Ejido en 1872.
>
> Asi que ese pueblo no fue importante en la era colonial... seria extrano que le hubieran dado la designacion de "Villa."
>
> Jerez no queda muy lejos de Nochistlan tampoco... especialmente en esa epoca cuando tocaba subir por el Valle del Rio Juchipila (por Jalpa y Santa Maria Mecatabasco y Malpaso) para pasar de Nochistlan hacia Zacatecas... un viaje que me imagino se hacia a menudo.

Well I finally had my mtDNA performed and received the results today. I can now join Gary Felix's site for the mtDNA, Amerind project. My Haplogroup is A which arose about 50,000 years ago in Central Asia. Haplogroup A was first found among the aboriginal American population. It is one of the five mitochondrial lineages found in aboriginal Americans in North and South America. I guess thanks to my mother and my mother's mother's mothers, I am truly an American.

Now that I've had myself tested, I'll have one of my brothers submit a sample for YDNA and mtDNA and wait to see what the results are.
As the woman on the Comcast commercial says when she's running after the gentleman who's jogging on the track, and she approaches him in her heels and suit to share with him her great deal with Comcast and in conclusion she says, "I'm pumped" ................that's how I feel now...........I'm pumped and excited about my Native American ancestry.

There were no high resolution matches to date, only low resolution matches, two from Mexico, one from the USA and one from England.

I'm afraid I still don't know how to interpret the table with the HVR1 differences from CRS. If anyone has any wisdom to share with respect to DNA testing results and how to read or interpret the findings or knows of literature other than what's on the website that is comprehensive, I would appreciate your assistance.

Alicia

Greetings Robert,
Very interesting stuff, indeed. As it turns out, my mother's maternal Santelices and paternal Onate sides are both Basque. Santelices being Basque was a recent discovery, whereas Onate is well known. About 20 years ago I visited Onate in the Basque region of Spain and was blown away as to the total separation they feel with Spain. They don't claim to be Spanish, they told my mother and myself on various occasions that we were not Spanish, but of the "pais Vasco". In the town of Onate, all public signs, announcements, TV, and radio are in Basque. Basque is totally different and not at all understandable from Spanish. Many words were extremely long and appeared like German! Though all the Basque spoke Spanish, they chose not to speak it amongst themselves, but were kind enough to converse with us in Spanish. The occasional Spanish words used in their conversation were those referring to the government or products from central Spain. I keep a Basque radio station on my c
omputer to listen to from time to time. Really unique! It was a terrific trip I'll never forget. Alice BB

--- gandalf3.1@netzero.com wrote:

From: El Peregrino
To: announce@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] DNA Celtic and Spain
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:13:42 -0700 (PDT)

Good stuff Maureen, the Irish \ Iberian connection goes back even farther than that. Have you ever heard of the "Irish Book of Invasions" ? In it , the decendants of a mythical figure named "Mil Espanie" ( the Spanish Soldier) conquer and settle Ireland by way of Spain, they were the Gaels. Even the ancient names of the countries are similar "Iberia" and "Hibernia" . The Scots also have a similar myth in which their ancestors "dwelt among savage tribes in Spain" before coming to Scotland. Genetic evidence bears some of this out as the western Irish and some Spaniards \ Basques are identical in DNA. The connections have been going on for eons, as well as the connection between Wales and Cornwall and Spain. The Roman historian Tacitus said that the Silures, a tribe in what is now Wales, had " swarthy skin and dark curly hair" like the native Spaniards. Funny thing is that the ancient Irish, British and Welsh never referred to them selves as "Celts" in antiquity, not did the Ro
mans call them Celts, that was reserved for the Gauls and Galatians. The term Celt is a product of the 17th century when the people of the British Isles sought to differentiate them selves from one another. Early on it was a derogatory term used by Anglo\ Saxon peoples to seprate who they were from the Irish and Welsh. Barry Cunliffe wrote a wonderful book called " Facing the Ocean: the Atalantic and It's Peoples" where he delves into who the Celts actually were and who were not, but had what would be called a "Celtic Culture" in terms of liguistics and tools. I know the ancient Romans said that there was a Celtic presence in Spain, but even then there was so many different ethnic groups it's hard to say who really was Celtic. The Cantabrianss were thought to be Ligurians, then we have the shadowy Iberians in the south and east, we have the Lusitani in the far west who had a celtic culture, but were probably a mixture of Ibrians and early Indo Europeans, then the Basques w
ho no one can figure out, add to all that Phoenicians, Greeks, Celts, North Africans, Romans and we haven't even gotten to the Germanic tribes and all those the Moors brought along with them (Slavs,Persians,Syrians, Sub Saharan Africans).....what a melting pot !

I just finished reading an article some of you may find of interest: "The Genetic Legacy of Religious Diversity and Intolerance: Paternal Lineages of Christians, Jews, and Muslims in the Iberian Peninsula" by Susan M. Adams, et al, in the Dec. 12, 2008 issue of The American Journal of Human Genetics, Vol. 83, pp 725-736. I don't pretend to understand all of it, but grasped enough to feel the reading worthwhile. I had to get the assistance of someone with access to a medical library to get it, but you all may have your own resources.

I was curious to know a little more about the oft-mentioned Santo Toribio Romo Gonzales, and came across this site (which many of you have probably seen):

http://www.stspeterandpaul-tulsa.org/SaintToribioShrine/tabid/59/langua…

also: http://www.flickr.com/photos/29363538@N02/sets/72157606613243192/

there are many more sites - google santo toribio romo or saint toribio romo; read entries with care as there is more than one Saint Toribio in the Catholic Church that will pop up.

ncc

Daniel, I have Juana Gertrudis's surname as MARTIN, not MARIN, as taken from her son Miguel's marriage. I don't have a copy so can't verify this.
Her surname may also be MARTINES?

!MARRIAGE: #299827, notes only
11 Apr 1750, Aguascalientes
En la capilla de la Hazienda del Sr. San Joseph de Guadalupe
en Los Muñoses, feligresia de esta Villa de Aguascalientes
Miguel DIAS DE SANDI,
español originario y vezino del Partido de Theocaltiche
hijo legitimo de Sebastian DIAS DE SANDI
y Juana Gertrudis MARTIN
con
Maria Catharina GONZALES DE HERMOSILLO, española
originaria y vecina de esta en los Tiscareños
hija legitima de Joseph GONZALES DE HERMOSILLO
y Josepha XIMENES, difunta
PADRINOS: Francisco TISCAREÑO y Rita PADILLA
9v

Hope this helps.
Gloria

---does anyone know anything on Sebasti?n D?az de Sandi's wife Juana Gertrudis Mar?n, they should have married ca. 1712. They had at least Sebasti?n Onofr? 1713 and Miguel 1717------

Hello, does anyone know anything on Sebastián Díaz de Sandi's wife Juana Gertrudis Marín, they should have married ca. 1712. They had at least Sebastián Onofré 1713 and Miguel 1717. Sebastián (I) parent's are Diego Díaz y Montáñez and Jacinta Carillo de Sandi.

Also on this couple, does anyone know the genealogy of Bernardo GOnzález de Munguía abt 1665 who married Elvira Carillo de Sandi abt 1670? or Sebastián Delgado who married Inés López AKA Inés de Gallardo all in aguascalientes or Los Altos de Jalisco. Many Thanks! -Daniel del Camino

Sheri,Somos primos! Please contact me at dexaime@excite.com. I have the JAIME lineage going back to the 1600s and Donacia PEDROZA ROMO'S pedigree (2 generations). I also have the descendants of Lasaro MORA which eventually run into our lineage. However, I couldn't find a Tomas MORA.Luis-----Original Message-----From: "Sherri Mora" [kanakalele@aol.com]Date: 03/10/2009 02:42 AMTo: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgSubject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sabina Jaime and Narciso Mora Dear Victor: I joined this group one week ago hoping to find information regarding Sabina Jaime/Jayme. I started researching my family history just 2 months ago and have hit quite a roadblock with Sabina, my paternal great grandmother. My grandfather was Jesus Mora, brother to Maria de la Luz. I will share with you the information that I think is linked to her and some questions/theories to explain the difficulty we are having. First, I have found the same information in regards to her baptism, marriage,
immigration and death all inconsistent. Frustrating! -I have found birth years ranging from 1868 to 1878. From speaking with those familiar with the customs at the time and place, it would not be unusual to marry at 14, 15 or 16. I've wondered if it is possible that she changed her birth year when she came to the US since this was not the custom there. Somewhere in my notes I have her "from Santa Maria" of which there are many in that area of Aguascalientes. -I found that she had 1 sister, Norberta Jaime (1848). Both have Refugio Jaime and Donaciana Pedroza as parents. I would like to talk to someone familiar with the traditions and culture during that time. I know in the Jewish culture if one is near death they have a renaming ceremony to "trick" the angel of death. Perhaps there is something similar in Mexico and Sabina was raised by someone other than her parents after a tragedy (that maybe took their life?) and she was "rebaptized" and renamed? -In the 1970's wh
en my grandparents were still alive, my aunt did our family tree. So according to oral history she lists Sabina's parents as Lasaro Nunez and Teresa Lopez with a note "Raised by Refugio Jaime" The way it is written I'm not sure if Sabina or Lasaro was raised by Refugio. I asked people that were born in Mexico and they said that it would not be unusual for one to take the surname of the person who raised them. I will see the aunt who made this tree in about 2 weeks so I will ask her about this and any other questions we come up with. I have searched and searched for Sabina under Jaime/Jayme/Nunez/Lopez/Pedroza/Muniz/Munis/Munos and have come up empty. Also, one record attached to her lists her as Ma. Sabina Jaime which is not unusual. -Maybe one us can request and actually view the film that the marriage information comes from. I have found many typos while searching the familysearch.org site. When I view the actual film, I can see sometimes why a typo was made. P
erhaps "Muniz is Nunez?" -I have spent many hours pouring over films and in the church records from Mexico, Mora appears over and over. Tomas Mora married a Moran so I think that was not a change by border patrol. -My cousins mother told her stories about Sabina. She taught her mother about herbal medicine and natural healing. She recalls that it was mentioned that Sabina had a very dark complexion and perhaps was whole or part Indian. I think some churches had separate records for Indian baptisms. These are the things that have kept me intrigued. Maybe together we can put the pieces of her puzzle togehter. I am also interested in finding out when Narciso's family came from Spain. Half of my aunts and uncles were fair with light hair and light eyes, the other half were darker with dark hair and eyes. Family stories say this is because of Spanish in our line. Let's figure this out. Sherri Mora -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing
List To post, send email to: research(at)nuestrosranchos.org To change your subscription, log on to: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

For Rick Ricci and others researching MARTINEZ CALVILLO

First let me correct the list of children for Juan MARTINES CALBILLO and Josepha AGUILERA De Sandi given in my previous posting:
Anttonia, c. 1671, is not their child, she was the daughter of Ygnasio MARTINEZ CALVILLO and Juana SOTELO de Jaen.

And yes Cristobal RUIZ ESPARZA Lozano is the son of Bernardo RE and Catalina LOZANO. [thank you Bill Figueroa for both facts].

I don’t know anything about Vicente MARTINEZ CALVILLO or Da. Geronima XIMENEZ de Alvarado.

Re Jose Sotero CALVILLO or MARTINEZ CALVILLO:
I have the following two notes, which may be about him:

--a Sotero CALVILLO was a testigo to the marriage of Jose Maria MACIAS Calvillo and Anna Maria DIAS Medina, Jun 1791.

--Entry copied by my father from a genealogical dictionary by Fernando Muñoz Altea, in Mexico, in the 60’s or 70’s, I can’t find name of dictionary: “Entre los insurgentes que lucharon por la Independencia de Mexico se encuentran los hermanos don José Pablo y don Sotero CALVILLO, vicario el primero de ellos de Colotlán, Jal., anteriormente cura de Huajacar [sic], donde al parecer naciera, población que hoy lleva el nombre de Villa de Calvillo."

Back to Phelipe Judas MARTINES CALVILLO:
Here’s his baptism, from a rather botched extraction:
BAPTISM: #226647B, IGI on line
Phelipe Judas MARTINES
hijo de Eugenio CULUILLO Martines
y Donagimudes RUISO
C042746, no dates
NOTE: parents are
Eugenio MARTINES-CALBIYO
y doña Gertrudes RUIS-ESPARSA

And here’s his Marriage Dispensation: He was age 20, not 24.
!MARRIAGE DISPENSATION:
Aguas. Aguas. 24 Nov 1729
Exp 99. Dispensa de cuarto grado de consanguinidad.
Phelipe CALVILLO, español de 24 años
hl de Eugenio CALVILLO, difunto
y Gertrudis RUIZ DE ESPARZA
originario y vecino de esta villa
con
Theresa MUNOZ de HERMOSILLO, española de 22 años
originaria y vecina de esta feligresía
hl de Andres MUNOZ, ya difunto
y Lorenza de TISCAREÑO
Declaracion del pretenso: Por ser la dicha Gertrudis RUIZ DE ESPARZA, mi madre y la referida Lorenza de TISCAREÑO, madre de la dicha mi pretensa, primas segundas, hijas de dos primos hermanos que lo fueron mi abuelo Cristobal RUIZ DE ESPARZA y Juan de TISCAREÑO, abuelo de la pretensa, y estos dos fueron hijos de dos hermanos que lo fueron Bernardo RUIZ DE DESPARZA, mi bisabuelo y Lorenza RUIZ DE ESPARZA, bisabuela de mi pretensa. Se otorgó la dispensa en al Villa de Aguascalientes, en 27 de noviembre de 1728. 16 fojas
Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara, Rollo
167996 OAH 2357 pt. 2, Matrimonios
Hojas Sueltas, 1728, 24 de noviembre
de 1728

And his death:
!DEATH: #299861, LDS Pilot Site
Felipe CALBILLO
hijo de Eugenio CALBILLO
y Gertrudis ESPARSA
wife Teresa GONZALES de HERMOSILLO
Burial Aguascalientes, Ags.
B0399355, also B038637
------------

Do you have the documents for his father Eugenio MARTINES CALVILLO’s baptism and marriage? If not I will be requesting them in about a week, and can send you copies when they arrive from the LDS. Send me your mailing address in a private email if you want copies. Thank you.

Gloria